A
male
age
41-50,
*nthony 33
writes:Hi, I ve posted on this website before and I ve found the answere really helpful so I am hoping for some more advice please. I ve been agonizing over this for some time, would be really interested to hear what others think..My girlfriend wont get engaged to me unless I buy her a diamond engagement ring that costs 20 000 euro. I earn about 70 000 euro (gross) per year. I have saved up ( through hard work and long hours) about 50 000 euro towards paying for our wedding and hopefully have deposit for a house. I told my girlfriend about this and though we had initally agreed on a ring for around 6000 euro she has now picked out one worth 20 000 euro. She says that if I love her and feel she is worth it I will buy her the ring for 20 000 euro.My question is do I go ahead and buy her the 20 000 euro engagement ring she really wants, am I being unreasonable or should I stick with what we originally agreed?Basically I have been in a 4 year on / off relationship and my girlfriend and I have decided to go ahead and get engaged now. In spite of all the ups and downs and the painful breakups I love her dearly I really do and I believe she loves me. We did split up about ten times over the past 4 years and a lot of negative stuff happened between us. While I can't totally forget the stuff that happened particularly when I never once called it off, we have decided to move on from all that.I know that this is just one side of the story of our relationship and there are of course two sides, but I will try and give as objective an overview as I can. I apologise in advance if this seems a bit long winded but I will try and make this as short as I can.Four years ago she came to work in the city that I was living in, she had a long term boyfriend (I thought their relationship was off ) when we first got together. We spent every evening together and were intimate, however as she would return home every single weekend I quickly realised that something was not quite right. We talked about it and she told me she had a boyfriend but she wasn't sure what she wanted to do. We kept in contact until Christmas which was when she returned to her home city to live. I guess I should have cut contact as soon as I found out about him, but she said she couldnt decide between us. When I pushed her for an answer she would say "time will tell" and as I had by this stage fallen deeply in love with her I hoped that she would chose me. I talked to my sister about this and she thought I had low self esteem to continue seeing someone who hadnt completely split up from her previous boyfriend. I thought that by giving her space and time she would return to me. When it came for her to move back to her home city, she moved in with him straight away and basically cut all contact with me. I found this extremely painful but with time came to accept that I was probably just a fling while she was in my city. Four months later they split up and she moved out of his house. She then contacted me and asked about giving us another go. I was extremely hesitant ( as were my friends and family as they seen how hurt I was 1st time ) but after a long chat and the fact that she said she was now truly single we decided to give it another go. As soon as we started going out her sister half joking half serious told me to "watch her as she has a roving eye".We started going out and about two to three months into the relationship this time I sensed something was not right. I asked her if she was in contact with her ex and she swore on several occassions that they were finished. One evening while flicking through photos on her camera I came across photos of her ex taken at his house. The camera shows the dates the pictures were taken and it was four months after we started going out. When I asked her about this she said I had no right looking at her pictures ( which I accept may be true however I never would have found out if I didnt)We talked through it and I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. She had some time off work so we decided to get a house together. Two months after moving in we had an arguement about bills - she didnt want to contribute anything towards them. The end result was her clearing all her stuff out of the house, throwing the key back at me and moving out. This was the second time we split up and so I decided to leave her alone completely after this.A short time later she started ringing and texting and coming up to visit and eventually we started going out again. This time she got a job in the same city as me again and moved in with me again. In order not to be arguing about bills I paid for everything. I also always pay for meals, trips to cinema etc. Even with that, about six weeks after moving in she moved out again as we were arguing about small stuff. I had found out that as well as visiting her ex behind my back, she was ringing and texting him. My condition for taking her back was that she would stop contacting him and also remove him from her facebook page. She agreed to stop contacting him but wouldnt remove him from her FB page.So she called it off ( for the 3rd time ) and changed her FB status to single. This automatically changed my status to single. Ironically I was then asked out by another girl - she would never have done this unless my status was single. When my ex - girlfriend started contacting me again I told her about this. She then said she wanted us to get back together again. I was hesitant about it but I forgave her and so we got back together again. Three months after getting back together she became cool and distant again. She kept talking about how her laptop was really important to her and it was a present. We both knew that it was her previous boyfriend that bought it to her. Anyhow she called it off again ( 4th time). This time I was determined to move on.The pattern by now is familiar, usually about a month after we split up and when I am just about starting to re-build my shattered life she would show up again, we would get back together, she would call it off and I would be right back where I started.A short time later she started contacting me again. We had now had an off relationship for two years. This time I said we were not getting back together unless we were getting engaged. Her response was "we ll just go with the flow". Three months later, her close friends started to get engaged, one by one. These would have been her partying friends. Where we had been in an on off relationship they had been going steady for years. Then she decided she would like to get engaged. Given that we had such a volatile relationship I was suprised at this.Because I was hesitant and didnt want to make a mistake, I took a job in a different city for four months. I guess I thought if she is still serious time shouldnt be a barrier. We had daily phone contact however when I returned she refused to meet me unless I proposed with an engagement ring. At this stage we had three years of an on off relationship. I tried to explain that I wanted a steady constant relationship before getting engaged so for another two months she wouldnt see me. When we did get back together I was never invited on nights out with her friends. When her friends had house parties I would find out about them after they had happened. When I asked her why she didnt invite me she would say she either forgot or thought I didnt want to come. Que another breakup.That brings us up to the last few months where we have been going out steady and we have decided to get engaged. She has been looking at different engagement rings and has now settled on one thats 20 000 euro.There were another five times when we broke up and got back together however I didn't put the details in here as it would make this too long, also on those occasions we got back together again after a shorter period of time.I have never been the one to actually call it off, though she would say my actions would have contributed to it on some occassions. My friends and family ask why I am so forgiving, I guess its because in spite of everything I have said, I really really love her. When the relationship is good, its great, when its bad - its called off completely.Am I being mean not buying her the 20 000 euro ring or should I just get the 6000 euro ring and see if she will accept that?How much should you spend on an engagement ring?Thanks for taking the time to read this, I appreciate all advice and comments.
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, Gauntlet  +, writes (28 December 2013):
 Maybe that's her way to tell you she doesn't want you to be her guy. Sorry.If she makes fool of you, you can do something to get some revenge: find somebody capable of imitating this super-expensive ring and give it to her in front of a very large crowd of friends/family.Then, dump her a week later without asking her to give you back the ring.First, she will feel lost. What did she do to be dumped as she was about to marry a rich wallet ? Second, she will lose the face in front of her friends. Third, if she ever tries to sell your ring, she will get a slap in the face knowing she had received nothing but a piece of crap (while your friends will ever think you have been a prince for that whore).Be an "Italian Lover", man ! A gladiator of love !
A
male
reader, Yummy_Prosciutto  +, writes (27 December 2013):
Dude, Are you serious??DO NOT MARRY THIS CRAZY MANIPULATIVE BLOOD SUCKING LEECH. And grow some self respect. What exactly about this horrible human being is so wonderful or enthralling? That she is hot?? No single redeeming virtue is being presented. But 1000 sirens are going off...
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 February 2013): Short answer to your long story....DUMP HER...Nuff said
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A
female
reader, oldbag  +, writes (8 February 2013):
Hi
Good luck,
But you know your giving her the choice again, too many red flags here already and only when YOU say 'No more' will it ever change.Until then she will be the person who rules you and your heart
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A
female
reader, Daisy_Daisy +, writes (8 February 2013):
 Good luck, OP, but please don't sweep all the other advise under the carpet (re the relationship in general). Ten several breakups already ... the next one should be the last.
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A
male
reader, Anthony 33 +, writes (8 February 2013):
Anthony 33 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi guys, I really appreciate all the advice. Its rebuilt my hope that not all guys are looking fpr a rock that size! Well d-day this weekend so will tell her I just can't afford it and see what happens..
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A
male
reader, Silius Sodimus  +, writes (7 February 2013):
"GUESS I just need to get used to being on my own again", if that's what makes you happy but if you are looking for a relationship there are plenty of women who don't demand you get her a 20k euro ring.
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A
female
reader, Ilha  +, writes (5 February 2013):
Dear OP,The shortest advice I ever give: She is NOT WORTH it. Please stop taking her back. You deserve much better. Good luck!!!
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A
female
reader, AuntyEm +, writes (5 February 2013):
 I agree, it's the love between two people that really matters....not the size of the ring. Measuring love by the amount spent on a ring is a can of worms that should not be opened.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): She will pawn the ring within weeks after inventing another reason to walk away as for seeing the good in people, there is no GOOD in this manipulative, spoilt user, she lets the female race down.If she bought YOU a 20000 euro ring I bet you would faint Grow some then walk away and when you meet a genuine lovely girl you will see how bad this one isGo tell your friends and folks its over and they will tell you how they really feel and throw a party.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): The two of you have been through a lot...perhaps you are ready to get married, perhaps you are not.If proving your love requires you to buy an engagement ring for that much money, something is seriously wrong. I would suggest having a conversation about money and what buying a ring like that will do to the two of you financially just to pay it off. NOT a good way to start off a life together. I can see it now...somewhere down the road.... "if you loved me" you would buy me that $100,000 Mercedes.... get real...sorry...but women like this make me cringe with disgust in how materialistic and fake people can be. If you don't mind such a high maintenence women, do what you want to do, but if you know this whole thing is not feeling right, listen to your gut and don't do it.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): Wake the hell up and reattach your balls. I can't believe this story is real.
You sound like a hopelessly needy child. She no doubt sees you as a needy little guy and is just trying to use you for as much gold as she can dig out of you.
Won't get engaged unless you buy her a 20K ring... giving me a frigging break, you sound like a little child. Spend your hard earned money on yourself.
Get rid of this parasite, stay single for a while until you learn not to be so needy otherwise you will continuously get used like this girl is using you now.
As you sound hopelessly needy i bet you will still do what she wants because you clearly don't have a SPINE.
Don't say you weren't warned.
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (5 February 2013):
 I would have married my husband (and gotten engaged) with a ring from a gumball machine. But then again I'm NOT materialistic, nor do I have anything to prove by wearing expensive jewelry or fancy clothes.
If the 5,000 Euro ring isn't good enough, are you?
And do you SERIOUSLY want to waste your VERY hard earned money so she can walk around with a big shiny rock on her hand? How is THAT going to make YOU happy?
I have to agree with the aunties and uncles who said, she will split and keep the ring and leave you in the dust. And then what? You are out of 20,000 Euro.
She is being unrealistic. The RING doesn't mean the more expensive the more you love her, or the better she is. Sounds to me that she wants the 20,000 one for bragging rights. And how LONG do you think your savings are going to last if she DEMANDS a 20,000 ring? What's next?
Sorry, bro... She doesn't sound like she actually LOVES you. She sounds more like an entitled brat who wants you to pay her way living a lifestyle neither of you can afford.
My advice... Don't do it.
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A
male
reader, SensitiveBloke +, writes (5 February 2013):
 It's not working, this relationship, is it?
The engagement ring is just one in a long list of problems. And it won't just stop there. It'll be one thing after another.
You could do so much better. Make the decision to end this once and for all now.
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A
female
reader, chinana  +, writes (5 February 2013):
 Dear OP grow a pair and kick that woman to the curb. She doesnt love you, you are her safety net, her spare wheel if you may. She knows she can get away with anything because you genuwinely care, but she is a Jezebel. You will never have a peace of mind when you settle down with her and a €20000 ring on her finger will not change her demanding and manipulative character. Dont engage that woman otherwise you will regret it. Goodluck.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): You might just be saving yourself from an even more expensive divorce by not marrying here. Sounds like it's time to let her go, not to commit when you obviously feel so lukewarm.
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A
male
reader, Anthony 33 +, writes (5 February 2013):
Anthony 33 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionhi guys, really appreciate the advice, I thought I was being mean not splashing out on a big rock, interesting to hear from the female readers that the size / amount of money spent on the ring isn't everything.
I ve always tried to see the good in people and give the benefit of the doubt where possible, I guees I am a bit naive..we are supposed to collect it this weekend, I am fairly certain that if I say I am only spending 6000 euro on a ring she will flip and walk away, guess I need to just get used to being on my own again, thanks again guys its interesting to hear outside objective advice, can be hard to see the wood from the trees when your so closely involved with someone..
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female
reader, AuntyEm +, writes (5 February 2013):
You could buy her the ring, continue to break up and make up with her, argue, let her bully you and emotionally manipulate you into buying her more stuff, ignore all the bad behaviour, maybe throw a couple kids into the mix just to make things more interesting and then discover that 20 years down the line, when you are in middle age that you did, in fact, marry the wrong person and have wasted a third of your life...
or you could open your eyes and see her for what she really is and realise that your relationship is way too unstable and problem filled to even be considering staying together, let alone marrying her.
You should watch a program called The real housewives of Orange county because it seems your girlfriend is just like these women. Spoilt, selfish, overly demanding, unrealistic and only out for herself.
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female
reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (5 February 2013):
 Forget the ring OP, why do you even want to marry this woman? What is it about her that still makes you "love her dearly"? The fact that she's cheated on you and in all probability, will do so again? Or are the 10 break-ups not enough for you? The ring isn't the matter of concern OP, the fact that you are willing to marry this woman despite all the shit that she has put you through, is. If she genuinely loved you, she would have been happy with a ring worth 10 euros because its not the value of the ring that counts, its what the ring symbolizes.
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female
reader, Daisy_Daisy +, writes (5 February 2013):
I wouldn't spend any money on an engagement ring in this situation. Why do you want to get engaged? Do you think it will stop the fights, the break ups? Do you truly envisage a long and happy marriage with this woman?
And what are her motives for getting engaged? Well, she'll get a huge rock to wear on her finger (which you won't get back when she breaks up with you) and she gets to keep up with her engaged friends.
I am really sorry OP, but I don't think you shouldn't be getting engaged or considering marriage with this woman. If you must get engaged, set your budget very low (like one months salary); if she truly loves you and wants to get engaged, she'll be happy with that.
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female
reader, Kindpigeonette  +, writes (5 February 2013):
Marrying this girl will be the worst mistake of your life.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): I bet the reason she is putting a price tag on your love is so she can turn around and sell it and keep the money for herself.
20,000 euro? There are so much better uses for that money than buying a stupid ring for someone who is a cheater and will probably cheat on you again.
Tell her that you love her so much you got her something even better than a ring with the extra 20 000 euro you have laying around - you donated it in her name to a charity to help sick kids in third world countries get medical care. If she gets mad at you it will make her look very bad and you can call her out on her evilness that she would rather have a stupid ring than save sick children. You can post it all over FB that she got mad that you donated money to help sick children instead of spending 20 000 euro on her. I bet you will get many thumbs up! I also bet she will leave you over it which is just further proof that the marriage would have ended in her divorcing you or cheating on you anyway so better to speed up that process and save some time.
That aside I think you need to look within yourself and ask yourself why you want to marry someone who obviously doesn't want you all that much as she keeps leaving you. You are being extremely irrational and even silly. You think bribing her into marriage will secure her loyalty? Think again, it will not. She will still suddenly grow distantly and leave you then come back then leave again. And you will be even more messed up and confused since you think that marriage should make it different and getting divorced officially is a lot of work and money so you'll be trapped in regret.
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A
male
reader, Silius Sodimus +, writes (5 February 2013):
You know it's a bad idea when even the females are saying your nuts lol. She's obviously grown being told she's a princess and deserves to wallow in luxury. Are you being a man? Dude your definately NOT a man if you succumb to her ridiculous demand, your even saving up for a house for the both of you! Your not even Donald Trump and even if you were I'd still say thats too much to spend on a ring.
Ask her if she's going to give you a 20k ring and if she doesn't p*** her off and find a woman who doesn't value superficial goods over a man.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): You really need to build up your self esteem then maybe you will not find yourseld clinging to crap relationships like this let alone thinking of turning it into a marriage. Are you that desperate to get married that anyone no matter how big a jerk will do??
She is a selfish liar and a expert manipulator. When someone says "if you really loved me you would do what I want" that is pure manipulation. She isn't interested in you. She is only interested in what benefits she can get out of you such as money. She will most likely cheat on you again or divorce you and take half your assets in alimony.
But your entire relationship is based on her manipulating you and her calling the shots and you jumping when she snaps her fingers so of course this latest fiasco with the ring is not surprising. It is just one in a long never ending list of situations where you lose out and she comes out the winner at your expense. So it really does not matter how much a ring should cost. For her, she is not worth any ring at all
The fact that she has broken up with you 10 times means this relationship is permanently broken and always has been and always will be. She has some serious issues which aren't going away and slapping a marriage title on it wont change anything just make it so you have more to lose and she has more ways to use you and your money and hide behind the ideal of marriage as a way to lay claim to your money and demand your servitude.
You are ruining your life by getting married to her. You know that don't you? She is a jerk that's already been established so you cannot claim ignorance. If you want to go ahead and be a train wreck it's all on you now.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (5 February 2013):
 Op, I don't know how to put this delicately, but...are you nuts ?? Dear OP, if all you have reported here is true, you don't need a jeweller , you need a shrink ; some counselling , at least.
After 4 years of on/off, and lived like yours, with 10 break ups, multiple cheatings , ton of lies etc.etc- no man in his right mind would consider giving her the ring from a Coke can. She has shown so many times that she does not care about you, only about herself and her own interest, and that she can't be loyal and committed, and you want to reward her appalling behaviour with a ring which, btw, you can't afford ? ( that too- 70.000 gross a year, I suppose it does not leave you more than 45.000 or thereabout net.... do you really want/ need / can afford spending half of your yearly net income for a ring ??? ).
OP, sorry if my advice is so brutal and basic, but really, after reading your story, all I can advice is : please, just SNAP OUT OF IT !
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): For love you'd get engaged with a haribo ring!!! (you know-the gummy sweet ones?!)
She sounds like hard work and if the ring means more than the actually proposal then she's not marrying for love, she's marrying you for the lifestyle you can give her.
I would have said yes even if my fiancé proposed with a blooming keyring! You either man up and tell her if she loves you she'll get her priorities right or your consigning yourself to a future of demand after demand. Next it'll be the wedding location-if it's not such and such I won't get married, then the house-if it's not so big/location is.../etc... I won't move in...
Play her at her own game and tell her "If you loved me, you'd happily get what you're given"
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A
female
reader, llifton +, writes (5 February 2013):
 hell no you're not in the wrong for not spending 20,000 euro on your spoiled, bratty girlfriends engagement ring!! are you kidding?!?! what are you gonna do, spend that much money and then have her turn around and either
1. call it off for the 11th time and keep the ring and you're out of luck and a TON of money. or
2. call it off for the 11th time and give the ring back, but nonetheless, you now have a piece of jewelry worth more than someone's stinkin' life, but no one to give it to.
if this girl loved you, she'd never in a million years be asking for a ring worth that much. if you were a millionaire and money never mattered, that MIGHT be a different situation, but it's not even applicable in this situation. that's just insanity. there's no need for all that, and nobody should ever expect something like that. honestly, i have NO CLUE why you're with this spoiled, bratty woman. she sounds truly awful. you sound like a nice guy. i have no idea why you'd subject yourself to this BS. she's cheated on you countless times. why DO you forgive her so much??
i think you've gotten yourself so emotionally wrapped up in this, that you've lost sight of just how truly messed up this whole situation is. because as an outsider reading this, your gf sounds like a mega bitch. maybe you can't see that from where you stand, but it's true. i'm shocked at what all you've put up with. do yourself a favor. save yourself the heartache and the 50,000 euro you have saved up and dump her sorry ass. let her be someone elses problem, not yours. and you'll have 50,000 euro saved up for when someone who truly is worth all that comes along. and i assure you, who ever that girl is, won't demand you spend all that on her.
good luck!!
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 February 2013): You should have told her that if she loved you she would not put a price tag on an engagement ring, but love you for the fact that you want her and prepared to but her a within yor budget.
I suggest you explaion one more time that you cannot afford the ring as you need to plan a secure future for the two of yourll. If she still wants the expensive, the answer its simple, she is only interested in you for the money and her true love is the ex BF.
She has chosen him over you everytime she has broken up with you. Sorry its harsh but from a woman persepctive - thats what I see.
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A
male
reader, CMMP +, writes (5 February 2013):
Reading this question is literally making me cringe.... I'm going to say this in all caps in the hopes that you will pay attention:
YOU ARE ASKING FOR A BROKEN HEART BY MARRYING THIS WOMAN. YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY KNOW IT AND I DO AS WELL.
I realize you didn't ask for marriage advice which brings me to my next point. How would you feel if you spent 20k on a piece of jewelry and she left you?
I think 6k is crazy but it's certainly not INSANE. Her telling you that how much you spend on her determines how much you love her is mind numbingly manipulative. She is lying. It's a status symbol for a gold digger. That's it.
You need to reach in her purse, pull out your testicles and reattach them right away. Then tell her that if she really cared about you then she wouldn't demand that you pay such a rediculous amount of money to prove your love.
You also need a prenuptial agreement. This should be obvious because of your history. Don't be afraid to say something about it. Tell her that it's not optional and you won't get married without it.
I wish I was there so I could smack you for even thinking about spending that kind of money on a ring.
Ask your friends and family what they think. What's that? You don't feel comfortable doing that? It's because they would smack you for me and you know it!
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female
reader, oldbag +, writes (5 February 2013):
Hi
Seriously,I would spend about 100 euro on a ring no more. She will probably,going by her track record,walk away from you and sell it within a month.
I think your too forgiving, I think your blinded by love and can't see how she is or how bad the relationship really is. You sound like a really decent guy and she knows how to play you and your heart.She has all the power here.
Take YOUR hard earned savings and buy YOURSELF a house,then go away for a lads holiday without her, after YOU end this relationship.And when she trys to get back with you,ignore her,send her away, block her.
Thats my advce.x
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female
reader, fishdish +, writes (5 February 2013):
 Maybe you love her but she doesn't love you and she's shown this time and again, with a breakup rate higher than 2x/yr what makes you think a marriage can last? 20k euro is 100% too much money at your age and given your circumstances. you have a house to pay off that she is (was?) adamant in not contributing to. do yourself the biggest favor and run away from this entirely toxic lifestyle.
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female
reader, ihavetoomanythoughts +, writes (5 February 2013):
 Seriously you should dump her. She keeps demanding more and more from you its ridiculous! What's to say she isn't going to run off with that very expensive ring and leave you in the dust? She doesn't respect you and obviously has no plans to have a long term financial future with you or she wouldn't be jeopardizing it by demanding something so costly and unnecessary when you want to save for a house for the both of you. If she doesn't want you around with her friends its because she has no plans for staying with you. I say dump her. She will never appreciate you. I've seen a relationship where the lady demanded everything. In the end, the man hated her so much he resorted to physical abuse and left her for someone else. Please don't settle for her. You deserve to have a partner who cares just as much as you do. When you find someone like that you'll be shocked at what you actually put up with in this relationship.
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (5 February 2013):
 I would not even get married to her. This is what your parents tried to tell you but they knew you won't listen to them. My brother got his fiancee the same amount on an engagement ring. They were each other's firsts and had few problems in the relationship. My brother also made the same money you did. My parents thought the amount spent on the ring was ridiculous, even their relationship has been solid. If you think that your proposal of marriage would make her the girl of your dreams you are wrong. She has been a liar, a gold digger and a manipulator. What makes you think she is worth 20000, a life time committment and worse, your life savings too? It's good you came to this site because you really need some sense knocked onto you.
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male
reader, Broadminded +, writes (5 February 2013):
 Not only should you not buy the ring, but you should find someone else. Better yet, be alone for a while. You're in no position emotionally to get married. You seem needy and because of that you have made some poor decisions. You're being used and your life will be full of pain and heartache if you continue to stay with her. You are telling yourself what to do by telling us what has happened in the last few years. Take your own advice. Drop her and move on. Quickly. Do you like living in drama? If so, then marry her and live happily ever after...for a year or two until you divorce and you've lost everything you have. Wake up, dude. You're sleepwalking through your life.
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