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Odds
writes:Women… why should any guy propose marriage?Full disclosure: I have never been married, but several family members and friends have been hurt by divorce, and I know of only a handful of happy marriages over one year old. My feelings for them are certainly coloring my view on the matter. However, I would like to focus on objective matters. I’d also like to focus on men, simply because I don’t feel qualified to address the issue from a woman’s point of view. Maybe someone will write another article.Once married, couples live together, share bank accounts, have kids, have sex, and share love for each other. Both can rest easy, assured of the others’ fidelity, and assured that they will have someone to raise children with and grow old with. This is assuming everything works out perfectly.Of course, how many marriages end up sexless, all passion drained away in favor of ever-expanding waistlines for both parties? How many spouses cheat and never get caught? How many people fritter away their spouse’s hard-earned money on useless crap?The kicker here is that there is not a single thing on that list that a couple can’t do while unmarried. To really screw with their social circle, the live-in girlfriend could legally change her last name to her boyfriend’s. As an aside, most men take it as a very bad warning sign if their fiancé chooses to keep her maiden name. After all, why take your husband’s name when you can keep your father’s? Take that, Patriarchy!Anyway, the only benefit I can think of is a tax break for joint filing. Religious and social approval are tough to measure, and vary greatly by individual, so let’s leave that out and stick to basics. And sex is not guaranteed, either – nor should it be. Spousal rape is still rape; the only difference is that a married man denied sex has to either cheat or divorce, rather than just breaking up on the spot.Conversely, until a couple have lived together long enough to be considered “common-law spouses” (two years in most states), unmarried couples can’t get divorced. An unmarried man need never fear that his house, children, assets and future income will be taken from him. I refer to the man here because the vast majority of divorce cases work out heavily against the man. Yes, there are exceptions, but we all know those aren’t the majority. 70% of divorces are initiated by women, who win custody of the children 80-95% of the time (and with it, child support, and often the house). After the court skims 2% off the top of the child support and alimony, the ex-wife is under no obligation to actually spend it on the kids. A father may see his kids only twice a month, if visitation actually gets enforced. Child support payments cannot be reduced for six months after a reduction in income, including unemployment. Worst of all, the man is typically forced to pay for his wife’s attorney, directly funding his own personal hell.So, we have loss of assets, home, dignity, someone to grow old with, and most importantly, children. More importantly, there’s a 50% chance of this. Does anyone enter marriage thinking, “Well, this is a coin toss, but whatever.” No – they think they’re somehow special. They think the odds don’t apply to them.Now, please consider two final points before answering.The first is that I’m not trying to attack successful marriages, or any person in particular, either. This is an attempt to do a cost-benefit analysis of marriage. Unless I’m missing something, there’s a very small chance of gaining a very small reward, a somewhat larger chance of having the relationship actually get worse after marriage, and a 50% chance of being subjected to the divorce machine. No rational person would take that deal.The second point is that even if the majority of women can still be decent, loving people with strong wife and mother potential, marriage can still be a bad deal. Remember, there is almost no benefit to getting married. What if only 25% of marriages ended in ruinous divorce? 20%? 10%? Would the risk be worth it then?I’ve made up my mind, but want to be convinced that I’m wrong. What objective reason exists for why a man should ever get married?
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 May 2011): I was in your camp. Dated the girlfriend for 19 years. 19! Why get married? I didn't see any need and neither did she. However, society is constructed in such a way that you almost HAVE to get married. Look at the problems gay couples face. Well, it is not much better as an unmarried heterosexual couple. Property ownership, inheritance, health-related decisions and such are all much easier for married couples. However, I began to be afraid that if, say, my girlfriend was hurt in an accident then I wouldn't be allowed to see her. I might not even be notified! I couldn't approve her course of treatment. You can try to skirt these issues with power-of-attorney, but it's a futile fight against society. I am going to ask my girlfriend to marry me and I hope she is still willing to say YES!
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reader, HoneyEyedLatina +, writes (3 May 2011):
 If I got married my husband would get lucky every night. I want to be married and I'm willing to take all the drama with it. It's a beautiful experience for most people. Others just turn it into a nightmare with their selfishness and infidelity.
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reader, Nime +, writes (13 April 2011):
 Well, there are a few good material reasons to get married.
As I like to point out, currently more women in the US have jobs than men and are the major breadwinners in their home. Also, more women are graduating from college than men, so we can likely expect this trend to continue. I don't know the statistics, but I would infer from this that many women may have a better health insurance plan than the men in their lives, and this would be a good incentive for a man to get married. I mean, if you don't have your health, you don't have anything, right? When it comes to marriage, you may be wary of divorce, but I would think knowing your health is insured for millions of dollars is priceless. My health insurance, for example, has no cap; it's lifetime unlimited. If I came down with cancer and my medical bills ballooned past $500 million, there's no problem. If I ever got married, my husband would also be covered with lifetime unlimited. If that's not romantic, I don't know what is.
Another good reason to get married is if you wish to get on the fast track to citizenship. My boyfriend is European but is currently a PhD student in the US and plans to work here permanently after. We are both educated in computer engineering and a lot of careers in this field require US citizen clearance. Although marriage and automatic citizenship are not one simple, atomic action as they appear in the movies (it's a process that takes several years), that would be one route we could go to broaden his career prospects.
As for the so-called 'tax breaks' for married couples, I'm not sure there's an incentive there anymore. You may get a couple of tax breaks, but what if your combined household income now puts you in a higher tax bracket? You're screwed. So although I often hear 'tax breaks' as a good incentive to get married, I think that if both couples are going to bring in an income it's not a good idea.
My general feelings regarding marriage is that it's an outdated and meaningless ritual that has no place in a society where women are equally represented in the workforce. I really don't get the big white wedding ceremony; it just looks ridiculous when the divorce rate in our country is so high. My parents got married in a courthouse with no ceremony at all, no ring, and are still happily married. The only good reason to get married, in my opinion, is if one partner has a much better health insurance plan. Other than that, I don't think people 'deserve' to make a public celebration of their union unless they've been together for 50 years. Then, hell, why not? They've proved themselves.
I'd like to add that if I was a guy and interested in marrying a girl, a major red flag to me would be if her parents are divorced. For obvious reasons, divorce runs in families, so if you marry into that, you have to be aware.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 March 2011): I have to agree that marriage has no point these days. I also have to agree that American culture in some ways has had a negative impact on both genders.Personally I wouldn't date white men anymore, I have honestly never seen any form of chivalry from them. My last couple of relationships have been with other ethnicities and to my surprise sex wasn't mentioned on the second date, they don't get drunk every weekend, they're also willing to pull their weight. For example it didn't matter who was working and who was at home, both of us split all work and household chores equally. Unlike the white men I dated who did the ususal 9-5 jobs for 5 days a week, came home and put their feet up, while I worked all day everyday, 7 days a week. That sort of scenario might have been more acceptable when men's jobs were more challenging (e.g being down the mines) but with todays cushy office jobs? No.Would I marry my current partner? No, I'm not religious even civil ceremonies to me are still based in religion and making a promise to an invisible being is not something I can take seriously. I wouldn't change my name either because it does have sexist connections and I just don't see why it's needed or the point of it so I chose to keep *my* name. Also as the statistics prove marriage doesn't last. Although I'm very happy at the moment, I'm not psychic and don't know what the future will hold. People change with time, that's a fact.Financially and if children are involved, it is a much worse deal for men. I'd suggest prenups but with everything else considered, I just don't see the point in it unless you're extremely religous and truly believe you'll go to hell if you don't.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 December 2010): Beautiful response smilek. Leaving without trying to screw over your ex- husband shows wonderful character... way to keep your own pride! :)
-T.V.
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reader, smiliek  +, writes (13 November 2010):
 Hmmm, the comments about government interference and how its unfair on the guy if a marriage breaks up got me thinkin. Perhaps that is exactly why marriage is still seen as the highest level of commitment. Its saying 'i know if this does im going to lose money and alot more as well as my partner, but im willing to take that risk with you and for you' And really, a defacto relationship has the same rules after a set amount of time anyway. Perhaps if you finds someone that you think is worth taking the risk over, you will. Maybe. Really if you're already living together and all seems well, it seems more a unwillingness to commit then anything. Its as though there's still an easy way out if you're not married, or its not so bad if you cheat, or you dont have to try to sort things out. If there's issues you can just leave. Again though, defacto's still have similar rules if they break up (at least here, and if it was pushed for) I was living with a guy for a few yrs, he was a control freak nutjob. When i finally got the guts to leave, i took next to nothing. Even tho i paid for most things (tv, playstation etc) I could of involved the courts and takin half, but i was more interested in getting my life back and having a bit of a money issue then having to continue seeing the ex. If my marriage breaks down after trying absolutely everything to keep it intact, i wouldn't try to take everything. I believe in fair's fair. I cant see that happening, but nothing is ever set in stone.
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reader, Odds +, writes (12 November 2010):
Odds is verified as being by the original poster of the question Haven't looked back at this article for a while; glad to see there are still some responses. I'll try and address some of them.
@ Smiliek
I hope your marriage works. You're fighting an uphill battle, if I'm right, but I wouldn't wish the loss on anyone.
@ dmartin89:
I've known a few guys who swore off white, American women, and have heard of more. "All women" don't have to be like that before people stop taking chances. Really, it only takes a few people in any identifiable group to ruin the perception of an entire group. One of the unfortunate drawbacks to having identifiable groups, actually.
Still, I'm glad you can love a man without getting a third party to sign off on it. Hope that one lasts and is happy for you.
@ DanielPew:
You nailed it. It's the administrative interference that has ruined it.
@ Cerberus_Raphael:
I never spoke out against love. I'm all for it. I'm all for being married in the eyes of God, and being together forever, but the government basically destroyed it through an incentive structure that fails to punish women for breaking the marriage contract and fails to reward men or women for staying with it. If it were up to me, all government interference would be removed, and it would be purely a religious matter.
The culture doesn't help much, either.
A couple might seek marriage because one party feels pressured, and the other wants a payout. Loving one person does not guarantee they will always love you back. In a sane world, the incentives would push people to fix the problems, and to be more selective in the first place, but these are not sane times.
The fear of being like the others is simply respect for statistics - I do not have so much pride as to think I'm somehow better than the 50% of people who tried to beat the odds and failed. They thought they would be the exception, and they were wrong, why am I any better than they are? Why is my love (or my future wife's) any more enduring than theirs?
If I wanted to fix things, I'd say get the lawyers and government out altogether. Unfortunately, life rarely lends itself to sound bites like that, and extricating the two from each other is more complicated than that. Better to opt out and live my own life.
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reader, Cerberus_Raphael  +, writes (6 November 2010):
 Yes, people do seem to easily delve into things that do no concern them. Lawyers, government officials, people in higher power seem to bind themselves to things that once did not concern them but, that has never stopped anyone before. I think fear lies in the hearts of those who are unsure of their marriages, otherwise, what else does a man or woman need to be afraid of when it comes to marriage?
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reader, Danielepew  +, writes (4 November 2010):
 Cerberus, I just think we should not ignore the fact that the "greedy claws" are around your neck. It's something to consider.
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reader, Cerberus_Raphael +, writes (1 November 2010):
Danielepew, do you truly believe that simply because the community that governs us has wrapped their greedy claws around such a precious ceremony, no one should get married?
Odds is overlooking the simple changes made once two people get married. Something changes within them and they know that what they have is now stronger, it is ever more, unholy even, to ruin a marriage. Else why would a couple seek marriage if not to strengthen their unity? It is not the 'doing', of course you can raise children and change your name but it is not the same. It is BEING married. You cannot 'do' marriage, you must BE married.
So what if lawyers look for money in marriage? Once a couple is married, what business does the lawyer have in their relationship? A successful marriage is untouchable. What then? Knowing what marriage truly means, what then is stopping a man from marrying a woman he deeply loves?
Cerberus_Raphael
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reader, Danielepew +, writes (31 October 2010):
Cerberus, our friend here is highlighting that a human relationship has become an "administrative" thing. Laywers have made it their business (both in terms of money and meddling in somebody else's life), not yours.
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reader, Cerberus_Raphael +, writes (30 October 2010):
I could not help stumbling upon this post. It is an interesting article, an interesting point of view and an interesting and welcome perspective that I shall consider deeply. Having said that, I must wholeheartedly disagree.
Generally you are saying that there truly is no point to marriage and you attempt to prove so through statistics and logic. Love has no logic and you certainly can never measure love. Marriage was and still is born of love and therefore, it cannot be counted, it cannot be measured and it cannot be judged by logic when so many are compelled to listen to their hearts more often than they heed the warnings of their head.
Why is this? Why fall in love when you head tells you that it shall not end well? Why kiss someone when you know that devoting your heart to them would cause you pain? Why listen to their voice when you know that in the end, their words shall harm you? Love is stronger and more reasonable than logic ever could be. You may think me a hopeless romantic who blindly supports love, I assure you, from what I have experienced through love, I find this to be true. I find that there is all the reason in the world to fall in love, regardless of how hurt you may or may not be. We are driven towards love with nothing but our beating hearts and that is where marriage comes in.
Why did lovers decide to marry anyway? When there was always the option to remain a devoted couple, why did ancient romantics decide to celebrate their love with marriage? Remove money as a factor, we all know currency is a strife that had been thrown upon civilization by none other than civilization itself. So why marry? Out of love? Love and marriage is a promise that one shall always love the other forever. By these statistics you have posted, why make a promise at all? Why promise your children that you will always be there for them when you could just as easily walk away? Why promise your friend that you will help them when you could just as easily ignore them? Because it is not so easy? Because there is something more at stake? Can the same not be said about marriage? Marriage is a promise and if you are not ready to make a promise, cease loving because in the end, you are surely just going to hurt the one you love.
Marriage is sacred and yet nowadays, people, young and old alike cease to treat it as such. There are men and women who have been married for more than half their lives and yet now, one has an affair and all that they were, is torn asunder by carelessness and unfaithfullness. If you are not ready to make a promise then walk away because all you are doing, statistically, is wasting about 50%-70% of your lover's time.
If you truly love someone with ALL your heart, marriage will not be so difficult. Of course, you could argue and bring about the point you raised before, people all feel that way in the beginning. True. Everyone feels strongly in the beginning which is why you must test the strength of your love. That is why marriages that come much, much later in a relationship tend to last longer (at least, the ones I see are like that, with few exceptions). If you have been through a lot with someone, are you likely to forget? Are you likely to hate them? No. If you and a lover hypothetically went through a traumatizing experience together, would you so willingly cheat on them? No you would not.
A woman's perspective? Their perspective does not differ so greatly from a man's perspective. I know this, I grew up as the only man in my family. The general view on marriage here is that you should not care about how other's 'survive' through a marriage. You are not them, who is to say your marriage will not succeed? Who can tell you whether or not your marriage will be happy? Simply because OTHER marriages end terribly? Simply because there ARE other unsuccessful marriages? No. You are not the same as those who are married, you do not think the same, you do not act the same, you do not even look the same. You and your lover, statistically, are unique. There is about a 1 in a trillion chance of being exactly the same as someone else. Do not base your future on the decisions of others. A husband CHOSE to be unfaithful, a wife CHOSE to initiate a divorce. You can CHOOSE whether or not you wish to make those choices or create the same problems. But there is always a reason to get married, there is always a reason to make a promise to someone you love.
Besides, if you truly love someone and you are happy with them, spiritually and emotionally, you are 'married' whether you like it or not. There is little difference.
Cerberus_Raphael
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reader, Danielepew +, writes (30 October 2010):
Good points.
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reader, dmartin89  +, writes (19 August 2010):
 I have been with my boyfriend for 2 years and I am sick of people asking "So when are you getting married?"
I have come around to the idea of never getting married.
I don't believe that love should be contracted and then you are punished by going through a divorce because you fall out of love. I would rather use the money to bring up our future children than waste it on a expensive party.
TO THIS POST.."Women in truth have become quite self obsessed, and seem to have no respect or regard for men at all.I personally wont date a white women (I am a white man btw), I just dont trust them, far too selfish in my opinion"
WHAT THE HELL?!
That is an incredibly disrespectful, arrogant and racist statement. You may have had a bad experience with a caucasian women but that doesnt mean that all of us are like that.
I witnessed my mums black boyfriend beating her when I was a child but I don't have the opinion that all black men are dangerous and violent.
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reader, smiliek +, writes (19 August 2010):
Interesting article. Speaking as someone getting married early next year, my reasons for wanting to are fairly simple. We love each other, have been through alot together, and want to be together for the rest of our lives. While we can do that without marriage, both of us want to tell the world that we're together. Lol. I guess in a way its showing off? Showing that i found someone worth keeping for my lifetime. I dont quite know how to explain it.. I never wanted to get married to anyone else ive dated, even when i was living defacto with an ex partner. It just didnt sit right with me. With my fiance everything seems perfect, i want to share his last name and be his and only his forever. I want to spend every day sharing my life with him and watchin him smile. His happiness makes me even happier (and im a very bubbly person lol) I cant say why we're getting married, my parents divorced after 30years of marriage and both remarried, and my partners mum has been married 3 times. So obviously getting married doesnt mean you'll stay together. I guess i see it as something where if there are rough patches, it gives you more incentive to work through them then to throw in the towel. And perhaps working through those problems allows a better and stronger relationship. I cant tell you that marriage is the be all and end all, but i know i'll spend my life with the love of my life, and we'd do so without a wedding. We just both want one. Lol.
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reader, Serpico +, writes (18 August 2010):
Great post. I am 42, and have never been married for many of the reasons you cite.
I also agree with the conjecture about American women. To me, it appears that the 60s and 70s ruined the American woman. American women now want it both ways - they want the man to pay and be chivalrous, and then in the next breath want them to rear the kids and do the dishes. Ive had it with them.
As others here have stated, for the past 10 years I have only dated foreign born women. My current gf is from Colombia and I couldnt be happier. She loves her role as a woman, and she loves mine as a man. After all this time, I think I have found one worth marrying....
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reader, OhGetReal +, writes (17 August 2010):
 I think you are entitled to your views on marriage and that it is not for you. Marriage is not for everyone and that is a very personal decision.
Discussions like this to me are utterly pointless because it invariable is about male bashing and women bashing and it just gets stupid.
I don't believe in a cost benefit ratio analysis of marriage.
I do believe in a cost benefit ratio analysis of the choice you make in a partner. If you do not choose well, if you do not choose someone who accepts you for who you are and allows you to grow as a person and you have a partner who wants to grow as a couple and you have love and committment on your side, then the benefits are great, if you have to change who you are to be with the other person too much and experience abuse then the costs are too high.
So I don't see it as a matter of marriage not being a good bet, I see it as picking a good bet, something that very few of us are taught how to do.
Love is not a feeling, it is a conscious decision to be a person worthy of love, it involves action and committment most of all. People who base their willingness to stay in a marriage based on how they "feel" in love, will never make it because feelings come and go and you have to be committed to the union even when you sometimes don't feel for the other person, this is simply your lack of committment. (Not speaking about a toxic, abusive relationship, but a healthy one).
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reader, Odds +, writes (12 August 2010):
Odds is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSeveral of you have mentioned intimacy and love, which are supposed to increase from marriage. I'll buy that. Problem is, I don't think anyone really believes there's no love or intimacy in this world. Love is a beautiful thing, and worth taking chances for.
But there's a difference between worthwhile chances and stupid risks. You can love someone, give your heart to them, grow old with them, without ever taking the risks of marriage.
It's not that the institution was always a bad idea - far from it. The problem is simply the modern laws regarding marriage. As Olderthandirt pointed out, it's the only license you don't have to renew - and unfortunately, the only contract that is never held as binding.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 August 2010): You've asked a fair question. Here's a fair answer. Being married intensifies intimacy, and the longer you are married the more you know, the longer you have to look back. When you are very old, you look at your spouse and you see, not an old wrinkled sock, but the beautiful youthful young person you married. You have so much to talk about. Making introductions to "beautiful young things" is quite boring. I never do it. I don't have to. I've been married a long time.
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reader, Illithid +, writes (5 August 2010):
 You make a compelling, and depressing, argument. If I weren't so hooked on the dream of a stereotypical suburban life with a wife, kids, lawn, etc, I wouldn't want to marry either. After all, that money people spend on the wedding ceremony itself could do wonders towards a down payment on a house. I think the marriage is a symbolic and romantic gesture, saying to the world that you're so sure about this commitment that you want an expensive and elaborate way to legally tie yourselves together. It doesn't make the relationship any more secure, but for traditionally minded people, it's romantic. I don't need a Ferrari to get me to work in the morning, and I don't need to be married to be in love, but sometimes people just WANT the big flashy show of it.
From a strictly cost-benefit analysis, very little of what people do makes sense.
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reader, Dorothy Dix +, writes (5 August 2010):
A relationship will not be happy unless all the needs of both parties are met.
Which comes down to each having a certain amount of personal space - some separate hobbies or interests to keep some fun in both your individual lives. Not every day, just once or twice a week. If there's no fun, life can get pretty dull.
Plus having fun in your shared time together - going out to nice places; doing fun things together; A meal at a nice restaurant; going to see shows.
Another very important thing in every relationship is to communicate well. Let each other know if something the other has said or done has upset you in some way. Don't carry a grudge, get it out in the open - otherwise it will stew over and over inside you. It then becomes resentment, which toxifies the relationship. And possibly over time, unresolved, it spells the beginning of the end.
If a relationship with unresolved issues, there will often be a lot of bitterness and disillusionment. The resentment will affect every area of the relationship almost constantly.
When discussing relationship issues, always speaking to each other with love, respect and consideration for how the other is feeling. Being positive and constructive and most of all honest. Also, being clear in what it is that's really bothering you. It's not what you say, but how you say it.
When you keep open and honest with each other, it leaves the door open for greater things. And much happiness as well.
Hope this is of some use to you. Best Wishes.
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reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (31 July 2010):
 Sounds like a good Return on Investment argument. I always joked it's the only licence you get that's not rewable every year. Hey, when you're my age you'll know the answer. A life partner is the best thing in the world. Who the heck else would take cae of me?
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reader, Odds +, writes (28 July 2010):
Odds is verified as being by the original poster of the question@ Zayla80
Well, the Bible is pretty clear that it's better to be chaste than to marry - think it was Paul who said that one (Corinthians 7:7-10). Marriage is simply the second-best alternative to fornication. So, my soul can be saved without marriage, if I make some lifestyle changes.
With that said, I think it is the height of Pride and arrogance to think that we can find the RIGHT person. 50% of us are wrong; 100% of us think we're above the odds. For that matter, of the 50% of marriages that don't end in divorce, how many are really happy?
I think my God will understand if I choose to make my own commitments without letting the Caesar's grubby hands get all over it. A long-term relationship with the spirit of a marriage is fine, so long as I avoid any form of government interference.
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 July 2010): The ONLY reason why I would married is due to my religious beliefs..the Bible says that marriage is honorable. So with that being said, I think you have to make certain you marry the RIGHT PERSON with whom you are compatiable with on most levels. No one wants to feel as though they are in slavery..that is extactly how most men feel; that is where the statement "I feel trapped" comes from.
I say..if you don't care about your soul salvation than don't get married, but if you do, then you should..but once again, only with the right person.
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reader, Odds +, writes (26 July 2010):
Odds is verified as being by the original poster of the question@ CindyCare
I see what you're getting at, but having kids vs. getting married are two different things. Raising kids is a risk, but it's its own reward or punishment. Marriage offers no possibility of reward over simply making a private commitment to each other. Having kids offers the chance of pride in one's own children, of seeing grandchildren, and of perpetuating a family name - there's a chance the kid will be a screwup, but you can't have any of those rewards without having kids.
As for the promise to spend forever with each other, that doesn't exist, either. People make promises before their family, friends, and God, and break that promise 50% of the time. What does that say about the promise?
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reader, DCNddb +, writes (26 July 2010):
@Myau
I wouldn't say it's white women. I think it's the American culture. It's not a race thing--it's a culture thing.
Go on to dating/relationship forums that are non-American and you see the attitude is completely different (speaking of women toward men). It blew me away.
I also agree that I think guys need to be more emotionally available, romantic, and considerate of their wife's feelings. But when the wife brought up in the CURRENT American culture acts like a buzz saw, ready to slash at the slightest provocation...it's hopeless.
Reset the romance clock every morning and give her some assurance and love and a little romance every day. It won't kill us. But the key is to find that someone who is appreciative, tolerant of fault, and loyal so you can make this emotional investment.
I'm married (and very happily after 20 years) and would love to have married an American-born girl but those were/are NOT the female qualities promoted by the American culture. I gave up and went elsewhere.
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reader, CindyCares  +, writes (25 July 2010):
 Even if I am a woman, on rational,practical grounds I'd have to agree with you, marriage does not make much sense.
But " heart has its reasons,which reason cannot comprehend " ( Blaise Pascal ).
Think for instance about having children, does it make any sense ?...Particularly for a woman ? She gets to get sick for 9 months and get fat and strecth-marked, then she goes through something akin to medieval torture , then she
loses sleep,freedom and career opportunities, then she and her mate are gonna be financially,legally and morally responsible for another human being for at least 18 years, and eventually the human being is gonna leave the parents often to come back only for raiding the refrigerator or getting help with something,... and his/her shrink will blame the parents for anything and everything that's less than stellar in the child's life.
Who would want that ?. Answer : mostly everybody :)
As for marriage - perhaps the chance, or the hope, of being able to say to yourself and to the world " I love this person and this love is forever, and we are going to
count on each other and make each other happy for the rest of our lives " is an enticement which is stronger and deeper that any stats or logic.
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reader, veronika +, writes (23 July 2010):
 I'm a young woman, but have a very similar stance on marriage to you.I was actually talking about it with my mum the other day, and I expressed the fact to her (to her annoyance) that I have no real desire to get married. I'm not religious for starters, so no religious reasons apply. I don't like the idea of changing my name (unless, of course, I meet a man who blows me away with his kick arse last name). Although I want children, I'm usually not considered maternal or wifely by most people. And being in a de facto suits me just fine.The weird thing is my parents have been married happily for 25 years, so it's not like I'm completely scarred by divorce or anything. Sorry, can't help with convincing you otherwise :) But just thought I'd share my thoughts.
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male
reader, Myau  +, writes (23 July 2010):
 i hear you brother
Women in truth have become quite self obsessed, and seem to have no respect or regard for men at all.
I personally wont date a white women (I am a white man btw), I just dont trust them, far too selfish in my opinion.
A successful marridge is simply two people taking care of eachother. So just do that, being more romantic wont kill us and being less whinny and demanding wont kill them.
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