A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:If a man asks a woman to pay for dinner on the 2nd date what should she think ? Reply to this Question
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (1 April 2011):
 Depends on how he asks.....
To be honest the way I see it is that the person who does the inviting pays... but it depends on how it's done.
For example my BF almost always pays for our meals out... but once we had a very expensive busy weekend and our first night out he said "you get dinner tonite" so I did. It was much less than the dinner the next night...
And often I will pay the tip on our meals out as my way of contributing to the relationship....
A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (1 April 2011):
 Cerberus, if someone landed the bill in my lap on the first date I'd definitely not pay it as THAT is being taken advantage of. I don't get why you're arguing my words and bringing up my article, when they aren't contradicting each other.
Women still like chivalry and gentlemen. I like them at least. If you hate being a gentleman and want a woman who pays her own way, and insists on it, then that isn't a problem, you just find someone who likes it the way you like it. No one is forcing you to pay for a woman's dinner! I personally don't expect a guy to pay my dinner on a date, but there is no denying it is charming if he does.
If he was a gentleman he wouldn't have asked her for anything, but assumed she would pay her own meal or offer to pay it for her. No one with good manners tells the other person "oh btw, you are paying for your own food" or "btw, can you take the check?"
When you pay for someone's dinner you pay. Without expecting anything in return. If you only want something in return then don't offer to pay for it either, really. It's not that difficult to have good manners. If I payed for dinner one time on a date, I don't expect my date to pay the next time. It'd be a nice gesture, but if I really am interested in a 50-50 arrangement Id not pay the first time, I'd just pay my own meal. Or at least you agree on the paying arrangements before hand.
Dumping the bill in someone's lap is rude, period.
"I mean the last time I went on a first date I paid and when my date (now girlfriend) offered to pay half I said "no, you get the next one" She agreed. "
That's fine, Im not saying you can't do it that way. What Im saying is you can't dump it on someone without agreeing on it beforehand. In your case that was the way you agreed to do it.
Now of course, we don't know if this guy asked that on the actual date, after dinner, or if he asked after the first date, after he's paid dinner. I must admit I assumed it was after dinner on second date, and without warning. My first post also assumed he was asking her directly to pay for her own meal. Which I think she by default should, but heavens.. who asks such a thing? He's without good manners, hence why I said she can't expect much from him in the gentleman department, as he both sounds suspicious of women and rude.
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A
female
reader, Adorskable  +, writes (1 April 2011):
 There is a difference between a boy and a man, there is no substitute for being a gentle man. When a man is after a women and he wants to court her there are certain customs that shouldn't be lost. Equality should be an issue in a realationship and each person to share the cost,its only fair, but this is not a realatonship and its only been two first dates therefore its rude. This man only showed you his character and not deserving of a third date.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (1 April 2011): Wow I really should have proof read my last post. As regards chivalry, gestures of romance are fine but it works both ways.
You see it's funny how it works. A "gentlemen" buys lots of things for the lady as per etiquette but what then does the lady give in return? Her heart? sex? So romance and dating is still a financial transaction then. So women that think that way are selling themselves as objects.
Chi, you state only two options A: he's not a gentleman capable of romance. B: Or he has feminine qualities.
Yet in your article the biggest point you made was "Just don't mix relationships and money" In your article you state how you gave and gave, and people shafted you. I know it was a different context but you call guys unwilling to pay for at least half on every occasion, not gentlemen.
You see these gentlemanly customs come from an age when women had no independent source of income. Women had no choice but to want to date the guys who take them out because they had no means of paying for things themselves. We don't live in those times anymore.
Chi people have screwed you over for money a lot in the past, can you really blame this guy for being cautious? and seeing whether this girl is willing to share the cost of dating.
I mean the last time I went on a first date I paid and when my date (now girlfriend) offered to pay half I said "no, you get the next one" She agreed. You see that was my way of asking her if she wanted to go on another date. And yes when I called to her house to pick her up I had flowers for her. You see treating a woman as an equal doesn't mean you can't treat her, it doesn't mean you won't spend money to make her feels special or smile. It just means you're not going to end up with a woman who is solely interested in your wallet and what you buy her. I mean there's a reason there are so many financial leeches out there, both men and women, because old school etiquette dictates you act a certain way. A friend asks for money, a "good" friend will give it to them according to traditional social norms, but a smart friend will say screw that I better know they're going to pay me back in some way or they have a use in my life that's worth paying for before I give people cash.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2011): Just wanted add that in my experience, men who insist on paying for everything also tend to feel entitled to sex. I hate being put in that position which is why I tend to insist paying for myself or taking turns.
This guy sounds tactless...which is it's own separate issue. In general, I agree with Cerebus's feminist point of view:
Never count on a man to take care of you financially...I don't mean to be cynical or put down men, but it's just something my father has drilled into my head since I was a kid...he's seen the fallout of this attitude in his own family and has had to bail his adult sisters out when men abandoned them.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2011): Chigirl, what if he has paid for the first dinner and says casually you get the next one? Would you refuse in that situation too?
I;m not criticizing your attitude just curious as to what situations you feel you might. After reading your great finances article I wouldn't blame you for being suspicsious of guy that wants you to pay. But if it was he pays for one you pay for one kind of equal sharing would you be opposed to that? Or would you stand by etiquette and consider the guy a leech?
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (31 March 2011):
 Going Half/Half is fine, but asking the "date" to pay is being cheap UNLESS it's agreed upon beforehand, (I pay for movie, you pay for dinner).
When did he ask you to pay? During the meal? After the meal? Or before you even set foot in the restaurant?
I have never paid for the entire meal when going out on dates. I have, however, ALWAYS offered to pay half. ( not just "my" half, but 50%. And I NEVER found it odd if a guy said: " sure we will split." With that said, IF I asked someone out to dinner, I WOULD offer to pay the whole amount. It all comes down to what really happened.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (31 March 2011):
Or did I get it right, the man asked you to pay for your own dinner right, not the entire dinner, his as well?
It is absolutely rude to ask someone to pay for your food! If you offer to pay for it that is fine, and a nice gesture, but to ask someone to pay for it is completely different. If he actually asked you to pay for his food he is taking advantage of you.
Common courtesy: each person pays for their own meal. If one person offers to pay for both meals that is acceptable. But it is NOT acceptable to dump the bill in the other's lap. Date or no date, friends don't even do that to each other.
If I was you I'd say no, he can pay his own bill, and I wouldn't date him again.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (31 March 2011):
Option A: She should think that he's not a gentleman, and she can't expect red roses, chivalry, or to be treated like a lady. This man is all about equality, which means he will expect you to do just as must dirty jobs under the sink as he will.
Option B: Or perhaps he is a metrosexual, with many female qualities, and so you will be the one doing the dirty jobs, while he goes to the hairdresser more often than you do. If so, prepare to be waiting for him while he studies his reflection in the mirror and takes more time to dress up than you.
But for now, you can only assume he's option A.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2011): Bin him. If he can't even afford to pay for the meal then he's hardly dating material. If he invited you out on a date he should pay.
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A
female
reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (31 March 2011):
 What should you think?Nothing. Why should you take favours from anyone? Why should a guy pay for you? You're going on a date with him, pay for yourself! Henceforth dont wait for a guy to ask you to pay, do it yourself. Iv been with my boyfriend for a lifetime now, yet I still pay for myself. Why? Because we go out very often and its not fair to expect him to pay for me all the time? Why should he?? I earn my own money, I dont need his. Its not about your date being tight fisted, he's just making his intentions very clear and i like that. Keep your financial transactions crystal clear with everyone. Always split everything in half, unless of course you've been invited for lunch/dinner by someone. For regular outings, split always.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2011): If he paid for dinner on the first date, he might be trying to divide the expenses equally. It would probably be more tactful to ask you to go dutch rather than ask you to pay for the whole thing...especially on a second date.For some couples it's normal to take turns paying for dinner...this is my preferred way of going about it so I don't feel like a bean counter when the bill comes.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 March 2011): She should think that he's just making sure she knows she's not getting a free ride and he's not a sucker.OP a lot of women seem to have this idea that we guys have to pay for everything, and the amount of times we get used by women like that is ridiculous. I've had girls dump me because I stopped paying for everything after months of dating, so nowadays it's either equal or there's the door. The same happens a lot to other guys I know. Relationships that have lasted years, you pay for everything, they get used to it and then expect that all the time. This guy wants to know if you're one of those girls from the start because if you are you'll refuse to pay and he can say goodbye without having a nasty surprize a few months or years down the line. You either like him and want to be his equal or you demand he buys your love, your choice but please let him know now so he doesn't waste his time, if you want a guy who pays for everything then he's not it.Screw gallantry you either want to be our equals or you want to us to buy you, there's no two ways about it. Women used to be property to be bought and sold, you didn't like that so you demanded equal rights and equal treatment but you still want to keep the perks of those antiquated customs? How does that make sense? How is that fair or equal?Knights and gentlemen were gallant OP and they bought their women, they traded their women as property, that's what gallantry is, that's where it stems from the same respect you give your horse or anything else you own. You were only as valuable as the amount of children you could bear, or who your family was, or your domestic skill set.That's the time in which that custom stems but now that women are getting greater equality, more equal pay and opportunity then they can be our complete equals and not demand this kind of advantage from us. You see even AuntyEm considers guys who pay that way "decent men". Even someone as intelligent, incisive and insightful as AuntyEm thinks that unequal custom is one which should be upheld.Frankly OP a lot of guys consider girls that make them pay for stuff as expensive prostitutes, because when your attitude is that he has to pay for you to keep seeing him, then there isn't that much of a difference.
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A
male
reader, Heisenberg +, writes (31 March 2011):
It's only money. And only the second date. I wouldn't read too much into it. Granted, he probably shouldn't have just dumped the entire bill into your lap. Maybe he's just testing you out; seeing how you'll react? Most women have an expectation that everything will be paid for by the man, and it's ridiculous.
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A
female
reader, AuntyEm  +, writes (31 March 2011):
 He's a tight*ss! lol
Its not very polite to ask someone to pay. Different if you offer to pay and he agrees or says he will pay half, but to actually say 'you pay' is quite rude.
I dont sgree that men should pay for everything on dates but most men feel they want to and that it's a gallant gesture to pay. A decent man will offer to pay and a decent woman will maybe accept a few times before she begins to share the costs.
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A
female
reader, neomum +, writes (31 March 2011):
Nothing. its normal for one or other to pay for the date or go halves I did with my husband on my first date. he paid for the cinema tickets and i brought lunch.
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