A
female
age
41-50,
*ardia
writes:I read it and hear it all the time: "He/She can look all they want, can flirt all they want, etc., but in the end it's me they come home to." What is this?! It seems that we've lowered our standards SO much that we accept this BS aISA "relationship"! This is not love! Is it just me, or is this truly the prevailing beliefs of our culture? Why would anyone put up with that from their partner?!
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (12 February 2012):
 Sorry babes, my history lesson isn't much help. Remember he wasn't the right person for you, he isn't the right person for anyone with such behaviour. It hurts when someone breaks our trust, but life will be better in the long run. He wasn't doing you no good.
A
female
reader, bardia +, writes (11 February 2012):
bardia is verified as being by the original poster of the question Yeah. Like I said, I guess if I'd had more reassurance that he was really committed as much as I would then this kind of thing wouldn't bother me as much. When you've got reason to trust your partner then it isn't a real "issue". Even after 15 months, I still only had eyes for him. And I have thought about that-up until a hundred years ago or so, yes, marriages were of convenience. This notion of soulmates & romantic love has been around for time eternal, but real-life was an arranged marriage of sorts. But that's where society is now & there isn't any turning back. I do need to find someone like-minded & considering that was my 1st relationship EVER, I hope people can understand the insecurities. I am getting help for that, too. This is just SO much work & it doesn't need to be. If you love someone, make it obvious to all, but especially to your partner!
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (11 February 2012):
 I guess it's like you say, you are still recovering from your run in with a bad apple. You are still hurt and this makes you wary and distrustful. Give yourself time- and don't freak out. While surely these are bad times for apples, and there are quite a few bad ones around, there also so many apple carts , and each one offers different apples varieties.
Aso , I think your reasoning is flawed in two points :" I thought that when people really loved each other they make everything in their power to make them feel secure ..." Perhaps . Could be, in fact it is , at least to the extent that they avoid, within reason, doing something that's clearly hurtful or threatening to you . BUT, he did not love you- YOU loved him, and he let you love him. As shown by his actions, ( at least the way you reported them here ). So, expecting him being so protective of your feelings was unluckily a bit too optimistic from the start.
Second flaw I see in this, is that NOBODY, nobody in the world, can make you feel secure if you aren't already. Security comes from within and from a healthy sense of self worth,- cliche' yet true. If you had a blind partner that never looks at women, or someone so smitten with you physically that thinks you are better than any PlayBoy bunny ever, etc... he would make you feel secure about your PHYSICAL desirability, but if you are an insecure person, you'd begin freaking out about something else in no time. You'd fear you are going to lose him to a richer woman, or a more educated woman, or a woman who cooks better , or dances better, or is better at telling jokes. Anything really. Insecurity is most immediately linked to our physical image, because that's our visit card, the first thing people notices, and because there's so much mediatic pressure about looking good etc..., but it still come from within , so if you feel you are not worthy , you'll project it onto .. anything really.
Ever read any Marilyn Monroe's biography ? The poor gal was beautiful, charismatic, filthy rich, talented , it's not like she did not get admiration or validation, and she had the affection of thousands of fans.... she felt she was shit. And she felt like shit all her short and unfortunate life .
Not that I am foreseeing such a gloomy destiny for you, lol . Not at all. Just to say, don't wait for Prince Charming to make you feel good about yourself, he may be coming to you, sooner or later,... but he will never be good enough to make you feel like a Princess- that's alas a job that you'll have to do yourself :).
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (11 February 2012):
I've been following this thread with interest... you know to a certain extent, this idea of your partner only looking at you, loving you, and doing everything in their power to make you happy is a very recent idea and most commonly found in Western CountriesFor most of our history, romantic love as such wasn't very common, women and men married because they wanted to link families or wanted to increase wealth. Even as late as the 1960's, many women thought a good marriage was one where they didn't get hit.Now we have Hollywood movies and romantic books, telling us all about love, showing us a prince charming, who isn't human he's pure fantasy. Same goes for men and their porn dollies. This idea of happy ever after, Romeo and Juliet, where nobody ever has period cramps, and men start to think and act like women.Does that mean that romantic love doesn't exist or never did. Of course not. But many of the older couples I talk to, the one's who have been married for 60years or more, their idea of love is more grounded and more realistic, the understand that humans have flaws and make mistakes. They never seem to say things like "I want to be his everything or love means never looking at another women again".... They are the ones who do say things like " He/She can look all they want, can flirt all they want, etc., but in the end it's me they come home to."..... But they are the one's who seem to stay married, unlike us modern romantic people who have many relationships, and sometimes many marriages and seem to divorce at the first sign of something they don't like.I'm a flirt, my parents flirt, we flirt with everything and anybody, including animals and children, we think it's harmless and polite and it brings smiles into the world. But we also aren't jealous people and don't get hurt and upset when we see our partners attention distracted somewhere else. It's all up to you how you want to build a relationship. For me worrying about what a guy looks at is too much hard work, love is hard enough without me trying to be the policeman in his mind. But there are men out there suitable for you, men who don't flirt, at least not obviously. For me that doesn't mean that they won't cheat or be faithful, they can flirt behind my back, they can pretend to be nice and faithful when I'm watching but who knows what they do when they are alone. I always find it funny when a guy (romantic or friend) is looking at a pretty woman and trying to hide it from me... lol.. I tell them "she is so pretty, wish I was lesbian" and then we laugh... because people are pretty, like flowers and that deserves to be acknowledged.For me relationships are built on trust, and I don't like to change people, because I'd be horrified for someone to try and change me. Being sure about the type of person you want to date, if they make a mistake, well then I can forgive, if they break my trust or do something against my morality.. I love myself too much to stand for this so will walk away, without hate. I can only be me, and they can only be them. Expecting my partner to be everything to me, or to pretend they are blind and can't notice other women... for me, that just doesn't work and it's a recipe for discontentment with a perfectly good relationship.But your not wrong about how you feel. Look carefully for a partner with similar ideas and like in everything else, it may take time to get who you want, but eventually he will come.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (11 February 2012):
 you ARE correct... when you love someone you do everything in your power to take care of them, cherish them and nurture them... but it's not work.... it's natural....
you don't THINK about it... it just happens...
and you will feel the love... even if they don't voice it... my fiance is the stingiest man with the words "I love you" but as God is my witness this man loves me more than a man who says it every day.... I feel secure in his love for me.
we talked about this exact thing last night... because there are several threads about this sort of thing going on right now... and he said "if you stop flirting, I'll stop looking" and we laughed... I can't stop flirting... I have to breathe... it's like breathing for me.... it's part of my personality and make up... he feels secure enough in my love and commitment to him to know that it's harmless... I think part of the problem is how folks define flirting...
but looking is the same thing...
ONLY having eyes for someone you love to the exclusion of life.... well if it's short term that's limerence and yeah that happens in the beginning of any relationship... but long term... can't eat steak every day....
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A
female
reader, bardia +, writes (11 February 2012):
bardia is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm just frustrated with those who constantly need their egos stroked by the attention of others. And there just seems to be SO MANY people like that. I need someone more like-minded. Obviously they're out there and I had a run-in with a real bad apple. When I say I found other guys attractive it was like you all say, we appreciate the beauty or the unusual in the general world around us. I get that. But this is the thing: before I met this bad apple, I was as boy-crazy as they come! I was totally into certain actors, I flirted all the time with guys, I would think about past love interests very often. But as soon as we started going out, I ONLY had eyes for him! I was smitten, enamored, adored him! Gave him tons of attention! But he's one of those who wanted more-greener pastures. And I'm afraid there's too many of them out there to waste time trying to figure them out. I just thought that when people really love each other they do everything in their power to make them secure...I did for him... :'(
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A
female
reader, maverick494 +, writes (11 February 2012):
Well it all depends on how you interpret those words and where your personal boundaries are.
We humans all appreciate beauty in one form or the other. It's why our movies are populated with pretty people, our magazine covers have flawless faces and the makeup industry exists. Therefore, a man appreciating another woman's beauty in a discreet way is acceptable to me.
Now, by discreet, I mean that he can look, he can remark to me that she's pretty, but he's not going out of his way to get her attention (which flirting does).
When I'm not with him I'm fine with a little flirting like making eye contact and smiling. It's a human thing after all, nothing wrong with it. However, there is a boundary. Actively pursuing a person through flirting is crossing that boundary, to me. I don't want my man to come home knowing that while he hasn't officially cheated on me, he has skirted the edges.
Basically, being in a relationship with a person is also about being saturated. When I date a guy, he is my main focus. I will still notice other men's beauty, but it will not interest me beyond just that because I already have a partner.
Once that fades and temptation comes, in my opinion that's the moment where you reassess your relationship and try to fix the problem(s) until you're content again, or if you can't, break up.
I will always be respectful to my guy and I expect the same in return.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (10 February 2012):
Bardia,
you said It's Stupid... what is stupid.. how I feel, how society is how you feel?
you say you saw plenty of attractive boys but you didn't even think twice about them... the thing is you did think about them if you deemed them attractive... what do you think I think about a cute or attractive man? That I want to take him home and do him? naw...
that i want to trade my not so tall, not so attractive partner in for a taller more attractive model... NAW...
it's like looking at the Mona Lisa... you admire the painting and know that's it'... something nice to look at... you don't have fantasies about sex with her..
if your partner can be enticed away by the next pretty thing that comes along they are not worth being partnered with...
I hear what you are saying and i understand totally and appreciate where you are coming from and why.
I don't think I came to feel this way until I was a bit older than you are now...
Just because a man can admire a pretty girl does not mean he does not love the woman at home for him. Just because I flirt with people at work does not mean I don't long to be home with my guy...
IF you have only ever known partners that look and leave and don't base why you are with a person on the important attributes of what's inside (personality, brain, morals and ethics) then of course you think that looking or flirting is wrong. Understood and Respected.
I wish for you to find a partner that loves you unconditionally from the inside out so that you BECOME the most beautiful thing to them vs that being the reason they noticed you in the first place. My case in point... when I started seeing my fiance he told me I was not his type (and I told him he was not mine). I thought he was cute but not handsome and his smile didn't make my stomach do flip flops... And me... he thought me old and not all that attractive and certainly not sexy...
over time as our brains meshed more and more he became the most wonderful handsome thing... my stomach does flip flops now when he grins at me.. because I know what that grin means...
and he thinks I'm beautiful and sexy...
never would have thought it would have happened.... but that's what love does.
he looks
i look
i flirt
he laughs
because we know that beauty is only skin deep and it's what's on the inside that matters...
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 February 2012): I am not a jealous person by nature, but I don't tolerate my partner flirting. It isn't the harmless behavior that some claim it to be. I don't do it when I'm in a relationship, and I expect the same consideration and respect in return. So OP there are people out there who haven't lowered their standards. Saying everyone accepts this kind of disrespectful treatment isn't correct.
My ex-wife used to flirt all the time, and we had many fights about it over the years. Ultimately the relationship ended because of many different issues, this was just one of them. What I learned is that I can't change a woman's behavior, but I can choose to not be with someone who can't control their impulse to flirt. Whether a woman flirts or not became one of the criteria I use to evaluate her.
I have dated women who I found to be too flirty, so I ended things with them. After some trial and error I found a wonderful woman, currently my girlfriend. She doesn't feel the need to have her ego stroked by flirting, thereby getting men to fawn over her. That's one of the reasons I consider her a "keeper".
So I'm totally with you OP. I DO NOT tolerate my partner flirting. I won't try to stop a woman from doing it, I'll just show her the door if she can't control herself.
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A
female
reader, bardia +, writes (10 February 2012):
bardia is verified as being by the original poster of the questionIt's stupid. When I was w/my BF, I saw plenty of attractive guys, but I didn't even think TWICE about them. ALL I thought about was my guy. Maybe part of it comes from an OCD personality. I've got a pretty fragile heart and I guess I need more reassurance than ever that whoever the next guy is isn't going to be enticed away by the next prettier, shinier, newer chic to come along. My ex just never gave me that assurance in the first place, so I was always suspicious (and he has a history of being indecisive about wanting the security of a relationship and the attention of all the pretty girls he can get). Maybe in a relationship where you DO get that assurance, where you really know and feel that your partner loves you the most, you don't notice them looking at other people so much. I guess I'm just still very hurt and now distrusting, especially when I read about all the terrible cheaters there are out there. But thank you for your insight...
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (10 February 2012):
I admit to feeling inadequate when he has Sunny Leone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_Leone) as his wallpaper on his computer... or he looks at a lovely YOUNG woman and will remark how attractive she is or even if he in front of me compliments a woman on her shoes (as opposed to telling her she has great legs.... it's the same thing only less creepy about the shoes...trust me they still mean the shoes make your legs look great)
And I feel like I'm not enough... but he's told me over and over... I'm more than enough, he's just looking... so I can see where insecure women would feel bad... because I know I'm all that and a bag of chips but it still can niggle at me...
As for flirting.... I asked him... and it does not bother him.. he's secure in the fact that I"m his... and knows that if I'm breathing I'm flirting.... it's just my personality... but it's not overtly sexual nor do I make any promises to anyone about anything and EVERYONE knows I am in a committed relationship and they don't have a chance... it's just good clean fun..... so again I don't see what the problem is...
if a person is secure with themselves and their partner and their relationship, then why is it wrong... I don't eat the same thing for dinner every night... I don't watch the same tv shows every day... you can only read the same book so many times.... do we get blinders?
should we do as the ultra orthodox religions do and keep men and women totally separate and then have arranged marriages? what happens when I see a pretty girl and admire her figure or her face (for example Sunny Leone is STUNNING and I have told him that over and over)
how do we censor our thoughts...and if we have these thoughts do we NOT tell our partners and let them go on thinking that we NEVER admire another handsome man or pretty girl??? Isn't that a form of lying?
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A
male
reader, Ayan Ganguly  +, writes (10 February 2012):
 Every one has a point of view on every matter and that's what differentiates us...there is nothing as this is good or that is bad in this world..every thing is relative...you may not like something and some one else adores that very same thing...if you don't like something just ignore it 'coz there are people may like it...don't be bothered just live your life the way you want to...we live only once so enjoy your life ,the way you want to,rather than considering frivolous issues
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (10 February 2012):
I think we are just more open about it than in prior generations...
People are visual...they have always looked....
TV sitcoms often play on the joke of a married partner meeting some piece of eye candy (male OR female) and then going home and having HOT sex with the married partner but actually thinking about the eye candy... Music videos have done it as well....
Much of what seems so NEW to our culture is just the same old same old being vocalized now...
Mae West was a flirt
Rita Hayworth was a huge flirt...
Clara Bow was the IT girl...
Why do you think my standards are lower because I accept that my partner looks at other women? What should I do blind him with red hot pokers? Won't his brain still think of the other women he's seen?
My standards aren't lower... I will not accept lies. I will not accept cheating... I do NOT accept extra people IN our relationship but I cannot control what's in his brain.
I am a flirt. He is not. He knows I am a flirt and he has said over and over... I know you flirt... just like you BREATHE.... and I KNOW that you come home to me and only want ME and that if ANYONE ever tried to be inappropriate with you, you would put them in their place....
so tell me WHAT are we putting up with from each other???
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A
female
reader, Eyespy17 +, writes (10 February 2012):
I think it's the honest approach. You know it's going to happen so I think people just resign themselves to it and try to take back some control by lying to themselves and being like "it's okay".
I agree it's not okay and I wish it were different. Every man and woman flirts to a degree. We all like it when the handsome stranger smiles at us and we smile back.
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