A
female
age
36-40,
*olly86
writes:Hi, all and any advice will be greatly appreciated as I've gotten myself into a bit of a emotional pickle.In May last year I started a new job. In September a flirtation began between a colleague and I, one who unfortunately was in a 3 year relationship. This colleague is a man whom I had never met before but a casual FB search of his name showed "16 mutual friends". Clearly this sparked conversation. To start with the flirtation was very much a joke and rather one sided. My rather blunt nature had me throwing innuendos at him in front of others to get a laugh. He would frequently intentionally set them up, giving me an opening but didn't usually respond in kind. In November he and I went out for a drink. Nothing happened between us but he showed a definat interest. That night we clicked - perfectly. I had never experienced that in my life and whilst I was sure he felt it, due to his relationship status neither one of us verbalized it. The next day things were different between us. There was something there, something real and slightly terrifying. Then his gf found out about our flirting (but not the drink) and confronted me. I calmed her, and flat out lied to her "I've got zero interest in your man. It was just a joke that went too far". She forbid us from talking, deleted his FB account, sent me nasty messages, changed his e-mail and passwords, took his phone from him, tried to run him down in her car and had her friends threaten me. Whilst I'm aware that my morals were slightly off kilter by flirting with her man her reaction was extreme. Coming up to Christmas we found ourselves in our second social situation together only this time his girlfriend was present. As we had prior notice of the situation we agreed not to speak to each other but he spoke to me. She went ballistic. Dragged him half way across the room and publicly yelled at him. They argued. All night.At the end of the evening I asked her permission (!!) to have a quick word with him and out of her earshot asked him if I ever had a chance with him. He said no, never, nothing but friends.The next month at work was tense but we got through it. Mostly due to me taking the proverbial bull by the horns and saying "get the **** over it, I don't do awkward!". We got over it.Then things started to change again. He was required to train me in a area of our job which resulted in he and I spending 30+ hours a week alone with each other. We got closer, got to know each other, built up a insane amount of sexual tension and everyone at work noticed. In short, I began to fall for him and everything about him said he was feeling the same. I think it should be noted here that other than rather regular and usually unwarranted hugging nothing had actually happened between us. I still didn't even possess his phone number. He was adamant that he would never cheat on his girlfriend regardless of the state of their unhealthy relationship. Eventually he started to acknowledge that there was something between us and told me he wanted to leave his gf. At the end of March he came out for a drink with me and some mutual friends and when we were alone he kissed me...a lot. He went home that night and because he had been drinking his gf kicked him out (she didn't allow him to drink). He came to me. I made him sleep on the sofa and refused to let things go any further than they had whilst he was still with her. We went to work the next day and then out for a drink again that night. There was more kissing but I stuck to my guns and sent him home (his fathers). That night he mentioned the never previously uttered 'click' and admitted to previously lying to me when I asked if i ever had a chance with him. "I hated telling you that but I had to, there were eyes and ears everywhere". He told me that he hadn't slept with his gf in 4 weeks.."why".."because you got into my head so much it felt wrong" (this man has never slept around. Has had only two sexual partners, both whom he was in a LTR with - friends can tell you a lot)The next day he officially ended it with his gf. That night I slept with him and my gut feeling the next day was that it was still far too soon. It continued though. Blissfully. We became absorbed in one another, spending nights together, sneaking kisses at work, texting non-stop, talk of feelings, futures, his family would openly say in front of me that he should "keep a hold of this one". Against my better judgment I gave him all the control. He had had it taken from him for so long I felt it was what he needed. I put no pressure on him and it all went at his pace. Three weeks in his now ex announced she was pregnant.We didn't believe her, but I understood that he would be in regular contact with her until he had confirmation. Being a dad is something he had always wanted, but through his own admission not with her. Two weeks later he told me he wanted to slow things down, i.e. stop sleeping together. He told me his head was screwed up, he felt close to a breakdown and wanted to be healthy for me because he could see a future with me and wanted it. I agreed with dignity. The affection was still there though, along with the texts and reassurances. One Saturday night he ended up back at mine after work and things got heavy between us but I wouldn't allow it to go too far until I knew his head was sorted. He thanked me for that.Two weeks after that she proved her pregnancy with a scan (The dates add up to his claim about their abstinence period btw)He began to distance himself from me emotionally then. Another two weeks after that I find out they are back together. I confronted him - calmly, only to be told that he loves her, no it is not just because of the baby, he thinks I was just a shoulder to cry on and no, he doesn't have any feelings for me.That was six days ago and in all honestly things are fine between us at work. We laugh, we joke and the staff tell him he's a idiot for making the choice he did. But inside I feel like I want to scream at him at him, shake him and sometimes throttle him. But that would achieve nothing productive. His no-longer-ex doesn't have a clue. He hasn't told her and he knows I have enough respect for him to keep my mouth shut.Someone please tell me what you make of this. Should I give up? Should I be proactive? Bide my time? Should I believe what he say's about his apparent lack of feelings for me? Something inside me doesn't believe him, is that naivete and false hope playing a part or what? Thanks for reading my ridiculously long question. (If you see age as at all relevant, he's 27, I'm 24 and his gf is just turned 19)
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, angelDlite +, writes (6 June 2011):
 @anon female 6th June: your story is amazingly similar to that of the OP! its like history is repeating itself.
i would say to anyone in this situation though who has the girl friend or ex 'from hell' - never take what someone tells you about their horrible wife/GF/ex as gospel. if someone is trying to get into you they are hardly likely to say 'oh my woman is wonderful - I'M the problem!'
and yes i agree entirely that parents should not be together just for the sake of kids or babies that have not even been born yet. i don't think it does the child any favours to be brought up in a house with parents who despise each other.
i wish you well OP and anon female, and i hope you will choose the 'uncomplicated' path
x
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 June 2011): I was in your situation not too long ago. I was good friends with a guy for many years but only recently we fell in love. his ex girlfriend was a real bitch (everyone thought so, not just him) and always had been for the 8 years of their relationship - very controlling and degrading him all the time, he didn't like her. she treated him like a child and violated all his personal boundaries routinely and showed him zero respect and consideration as a human being. I always wondered how he could continue putting up with her let alone having sex with her all those years - since we were at that time just good buddies I asked him this and he said it was just physical relief for him.
He finally had enough of her and broke up with her. Then he and I fell in love and got together...then she said she was already pregnant by him. So he went back to her due to a sense of obligation or so he said, but he did emotionally distance himself from me and I just let him go and dealt with the unspeakable pain on my own. I fell into a depression, went to therapy, slowly felt better after several months and regained my clarity. And yes throughout this time I had to see him almost everyday at work (we don't work together, but in the same organization).
I can't blame him for going back to her cos I know he was trying to "do the right thing" and everyone says the "right thing" is for biological parents to stick together as committed romantic partners to be a 'natural family unit' no matter how abusive their relationship, right?? [yeah, I know...].....so anyway he went back to her, married her, their kid was born and is now a year old.
but...guess what, just because they have a baby and are now married and look like the typical family on the outside, doesn't change the fact that she was always a b!tch to him (or rather, in general) and he always hated her.
starting about 6 months ago he's been showing up on my doorstep, wanting desperately to get back with me, I can see he is very miserable with his life. But he's now married to her and they are living together. And I don't want to be in an affair with a married man so I've been turning him away but he keeps coming to me and crying wanting to restore our romantic relationship... I think he's in a huge mess and I don't envy his position. But oh well this is his problem to sort out. After the pain I went through when he went back and married her, I now feel ambivalent about him and so I dont' really have an interest in taking him back.
If he doesn't want to be with her he can divorce her cleanly. He hasn't, because of the pressure to not break up the family since they have a baby. Instead he's still coming to me because he hates his home life so much (because he's always hated her) and I'm still turning him away.
Anyway for your situation I think you should bide your time but with the attitude that you can "take him or leave him."
Some times the best action is, in action. situations like these can take a l-o-n-g time for new developments to take place. A pregnancy is 9 months. Then the first year of a baby's life is a crisis for the couple.
I'm just saying that however he feels now, he may be feeling very different in a year or a two.
Babies do not save a failing relationship.
Babies do not change people's personalities and make abusive controlling people suddenly be non-abusive to their partners anymore.
Babies do not make a horrible relationship now become a rose garden.
However your boyfriend felt about his ex before the baby, he will still feel that way about her after the baby.
I'm thinking he probably told you he loves her and you were just a shoulder to cry on, because he himself desperately wants to believe this. He wants this to be true so he can feel less awful about going back to that controlling horrible woman and staying with her for the rest of his life (at least that's his current thinking). He's trying to "hypnotize' himself into believing that he loves her, to quiet the conflict in his head and make his choice easier on himself.
It wouldn't surprise me if he's falling or fallen into a depression. And when in a depression it's even harder to think straight and see viable solutions to the dilemmas so people get even more stuck once they are depressed.
It takes time for people to unravel and buckle under the weight of their own delusions and bad decisions until they finally try to improve their situation. It could be months, could be years. who knows how long he will take but he has to fall on his own, you have to stay out of it.
my advice to you is to just do nothing for now since he's made his decision. for now. Just bide your time for as long as you feel OK doing so. If his ex is as horrible as you describe I don't think he can continue to delude himself about her, for very long. Although I would caution that as the pregnancy progresses he'll probably be "unable" to leave her because everyone would villify him for leaving his pregnant mother-of-his kid...and this may also continue for some time after the baby is born.
But I think chances are good that he will go back to hating her, just that maybe he'll feel he has no choice but to stay with her, which is a different situation from now, sort of.....
Or, if you can't bear to wait in limbo that long, then you move on now since whatever he's decided for himself, it may change in the future but it's still the reality for now.
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A
female
reader, angelDlite +, writes (6 June 2011):
"At the moment I'm struggling because I don't know what was real, I don't know if he genuinely had feelings for me or if I was used"
you might NEVER know the answer to this so maybe it is best to put what has happened behind you and stop pondering about it. i think it is unfortunate that you still work together coz i know if it was me i wouldn't want to have to see him, at least for a while. you say that you still want to be 'friends' with him, are you being honest about this? if friendship is now all you want, then why are you worried that he maybe used you? would you not just see it as sex and companionship for a friend when they needed it? you obviously have big enough feelings for him that you would be willing to take him back even though he chose his exGF over you, and if you have feelings like that for him, i just don't see how friendship (or at least a happy one for you) will be possible.
i am sorry that this has happened to you, its very unfortunate (to say the least!) that she got pregnant but i still feel that in the long run you may have had a lucky escape. he had started an emotional affair with you behind his GFs back before any real cheating started, he has then messed you about, gone back to her, she's pregnant and you are left wondering if you've been played and lied to. how is he good boyfriend material for you?
i know its hard and you feel stuck on him at the moment but move on, there are millions of other men in the world. SOMEONE out there must be better for you than him surely
x
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A
female
reader, unmeidaagonyaunt  +, writes (6 June 2011):
 Point #1: When faced with the prospect of having two women simultaneously, most men prefer NOT to choose between the two women but rather choose to keep them both. I should point out that he has you in this unending loop of drama, and you keep playing the game because you think that he is a prize to be won. I assure you, he is not.
Point #2: The level of drama-llama BS in this story is pretty epic. You seem like a smart girl, so I cannot help but ask myself why you have yourself inexorably wrapped up in this foolishness? You are better than this.
Point #3: Ditto with the whole "going after a committed man" business; you are too good for that. If you want to know why going after a committed man is bad news, refer back to point #1.
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A
female
reader, Lolly86 +, writes (6 June 2011):
Lolly86 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you all.@anonymous - I'm very much a old head on young shoulders. Sadly this is likely the least dramatic aspect of my life and I truly do wish that was an exaggeration.@OhGetReal - Whilst I am a big fan of honestly, even the brutal kind. Your phrasing leaves something to be desired. I by choice spent almost 12 months celibate until this man. For me to pursue a 'sexual conquest' there has to be real feeling involved. My ex partner suffered from ASPO, alcoholism, severe depression and possessed what is known as 'The Dark Triad of traits. Narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy'. Mental health is very much my area of expertise as I was and still am his carer.@Jonas - I'm inclined to agree with you. I've never removed blame from myself. I was playing a dangerous game and knowingly pursued a taken man. I do accept the consequences of my actions and I have delt with the whole situation in what I felt was the most adult and dignified manner. I may not like this mans gf but I could never fault her instincts, she felt I was a threats...and she was right.@Aunty Bimbim - I never claimed to be an innocent - far from it in fact.Backing off however, is easier said than done. This man has made a choice and it wasn't me. I will have to accept that. But it doesn't change how well we get on. I don't work In a big place with lot's of staff he and I see each other for anything up to 50 hours a week, and we are still 'clicking'. He still chooses to talk to me and we still laugh together. I don't want to loose a friend too.@worldlywise - My workplace has a family dynamic and though I'm aware they don't know best they do know him, and have done for years now. I wouldn't discount the opinions of those he considers his friends. Before I worked there they were all privy to aspects of his personal life and turbulent relationship. See above comments.@clearsorted - Thank you. I am trying. Forgiveness will come, this is small potatoes and I don't think he intentionally set out to hurt me. Forgetting may take much much longer. His incessant presence in my life being a non-stop reminder.@AngelDlite - Why was he with her for that long? I couldn't count the amount of times I've asked myself that. She's gotta have something going for her, I just have no clue what.Yes. I haven't only wondered that I've flat out asked him. When she first forbid us from talking to each other I said to him that it wasn't a normal reaction and what had he previously done to cause her not to trust him. He claimed nothing. I didn't believe him. I've talked to her a lot. She admits he's not allowed female friends "especially pretty ones", and isn't allowed out without her. According to her it's because her ex cheated on her she has trust issues.@anonymous - I always told him the only thing that would make me back down would be a child and I honestly do want to keep my word on that. I will not sacrifice my dignity for a man who doesn't want to be with me. I will not ruin their chance at a family. His happiness is important to me. If I was going to do that I would have told her what had happened. She's text me and gotten 'in my face' enough times to warrent a retaliation. unfortunately she's pregnant, I don't want to cause excess stress and I'm not totally bananas!At the moment I'm struggling because I don't know what was real, I don't know if he genuinely had feelings for me or if I was used. His words and his actions contradict one another and he is by his own admission, the king of mixed messages. Up until the day before they got back together (something I told him to do if it would make him happy - he assured me he wanted me) he was still telling me he didn't know what he wanted. I'm just extremely confused."GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE....THE COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN....AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE"
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A
female
reader, Lolly86 +, writes (6 June 2011):
Lolly86 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you all.
@anonymous - I'm very much a old head on young shoulders. Sadly this is likely the least dramatic aspect of my life and I truly do wish that was an exaggeration.
@OhGetReal - Whilst I am a big fan of honestly, even the brutal kind. Your phrasing leaves something to be desired. I by choice spent almost 12 months celibate until this man. For me to pursue a 'sexual conquest' there has to be real feeling involved.
My ex partner suffered from ASPO, alcoholism, severe depression and possessed what is known as 'The Dark Triad of traits. Narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy'. Mental health is very much my area of expertise as I was and still am his carer.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 June 2011): His girlfriend is only 19 years old. Yes she acted maybe bit out of control but she is young and properly immature, she saw you as a threat and guess what she was right. Now she is pregnant, now it is game over for you. Unless you want break up a family and leave a child without his/her mum dad together. Anyway if he was such a nice guy, he wouldn't cheated on his g/f so I say you are better off.
BACK OFF, YOU DIDN'T BEFORE BUT NOW THERE A CHILD INVOLVED.
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A
female
reader, angelDlite +, writes (4 June 2011):
only HE knows his true feelings, but her pregnancy would not be enough of a reason to get back with her if she was such a monster and he really wanted to be with you.
why was he with her for 3 years if she was so bad?
yes the scan dates add up to the conception happening when he for weeks previously (this does not mean that was the last time they had had sex - you only have his word for this)
also do you ever wonder WHY his girlfriend was so angry when she caught him contacting you? yes her behaviour did seem very extreme but it also makes me think that maybe this fling with you is not the first time she has caught him cheating (he tells you the contrary but again, you only have his word for this) very often we can learn what we really need to know about a man by listening to his exes, but we never do want to listen, coz a lot of the time a man will paint his ex as some kind of schizoid!
anyway, the fact is this, the man has gone back to his ex, it is either that he wants to be with her more than he wants to be with you or that he is just plain scared not to.
either way, this proves him to be not a good dating choice, coz he is either weak or he is lying to you about his relationship with her. he tells you you were just a shoulder to cry on, i would call this a fling, you were there flirting and showing him attention and he could not resist.
i think it would be better for you if you forget about him now, if you get him back you will have a boyfriend who has got a kid with that woman who quite frankly sounds like not the sort of person you want to get on the wrong side of. you are young and you sound like you have got a nice fun personality, you should have no problem getting someone else to click with but next time go for someone uncomplicated. if he is now with her let them get on with it, you have had a lucky escape in my opinion
x
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A
female
reader, ClearSorted  +, writes (4 June 2011):
Short advice :- He doesnot deserve your time, mental space and attention. Just forgive the poor super-confused Guy. Make it a rule - Get along with SINGLE and sorted guys only (not the ones just out of break-ups), you will forget this man. for a clap one hand is not enough so we cant blame this guy alone. Just replace any thoughts about him. Keep your priorities right. Good luck.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 June 2011): First - how do workmates know who is good for this guy - you or his girlfriend? They don't - so ignore their comments
Second - move on, he's made his choice and it seems by being Ok with you at work, he can be professional.
Third - its never a brilliant idea to 'pinch' someones man, they may be blinded briefly by lust but thats all. Find somebody single and forget any idea of getting back with him
His g/f clearly knew you were after him women have inbuilt radar for that sort of thing
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (4 June 2011):
 Leave him alone and go find yourself a man that isnt already attached.
It seems to me you knew what you were doing, you slept with him despite your gut feelings, you contributed to this situation, now that a child is involved you need to acknowledge you are no innocent, back off and give them the space they need to try and build a family.
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A
female
reader, OhGetReal +, writes (4 June 2011):
 His girlfriend clearly has Borderline Personality Disorder, and your friend may suffer from some form of a personality disorder as well, hw sounds like a histrionic narcissist to meall these labels serve a purpose, I don't have time to go into it. Google these and learn.These people are sick and they suck. You are the third party, someone he can dupe and use to play out their sick dynamic. This isn't an episode of the Bachelor, he's no prize and she isn't your nemesis or your concernChoose to be smart and healthy. Stop pursuing this drama. Get a life, set some goals other than sexual conquests Leave them to it.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 June 2011): Bloody hell, what a lot of shit to put up with at your age! I have read the whole lot, and personally think f*ck him, leave them to get on with it!!!!Surely there are some other nice, uncomplicated guys for you to get know? Even if it is his child, even if they do split up and you to get together, it will be nothing but aggro.Do yourself a favour...FORGET HIM... find someone single (in all aspects of the word) and have fun with them, trust me, you really do NOT need all this shit at your age!
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