A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I had a situation with a woman I really liked, and need you opinion on this.I 've met this girl in a building that I work at. She works for a different company, and I saw her several times at lunch before we started talking. We just talked for a couple of weeks, and then I asked her on date. I picked a restaurant since she gave me a choice. We both have very good jobs, so I assumed a nice place would be no problem.She ate very little, ordering only appetizer, and couple of wines. I had a whole dinner, most of the check was my share. When check came, she offered to contribute, and I said,sure. She took out some cash, then I saw it was exactly how much she ordered, with a smile.After we left restaurant, I wanted to take her for spme drinks, but I noticed right away a change in her behavior. She was very energetic and seemed happy to see me before and during dinner, but after she looked kind of drained, tired, and just wanting to go home. No explanation, just, I ll call it a night thing.I texted her the next day, saying that I had a great night, no answer. Couple days later I saw her at lunch again. I waived, came up to her. Again, she was smiley, polite, but when I said thAt we should do it again sometimes, she looked strangely at me and said nothing, and left few seconds later.Few weeks passed. I had a few dates with other women, but my unfortunate date with her was bothering me, plus I really liked the girl.When I talked to my buddy about it, he said right away, that its because she had to pay at dinner. Some girls are funny this way. At first I disagreed with him, but then going back to that dinner, I think He might be right. Happy before, silent after, not answering my texts, leaving right after I mentioned dinner again.I just couldn't understand why she got all upset about it, if that's the case. I didn't ask her to pay, plus her share was a fraction of mine. I could easy pick up the check, it was no problem. Usually on a first date, that's how it goes with women I date, they pay their share. And usually they offer. I never asked a girl to contribute to a check, but they almost always offer, I just go alone with it. And I actually think it's a nice gesture, but obviously she didn't think so.A month goes by, and we meet at Christmas party. She was a nock out with short dress, hair down, I couldn't keep my eyes of her. Then after few shots, I said to myself, what do I have to loose, at least I can make her to tell me what I did wrong.She had a few drinks also, and sheen I came up to her, she smiled and actually looked like she is up to conversation. I didn't ask her right away what went wrong that night, started to chatting her up first. She told me about her plans for holidays, and then I said that we should get together one day.Now this time i was watching her face closely. And again, the same distant e?pression, and then again she made an attempt to leave right away. This time I was not going to let her leave without telling me . So I asked her straightforward, could you please tell me what happened that night? What have I done to make you change toward me?At first she said, o, nothing, I just was busy, you know the excuse people give you when they don't want to see you again. I held her hand, not letting her leave, and said again, that I know something went wrong, please tell me, if I did something you didn't like at least let me know about it, and I also said how much I like her, and how beatifull she looks tonight and so on. She hesitated for a few moments, and then said that may be I can benefit from what she is about to say, but she just wants me to know that she is not attempting to tell me change my ways or act any different toward women, she just wants to explain to me how she is. So, my buddy was right, it was the damn check. She said, she was very much embarrassed that she had to reach for her wallet. She only offered to pay because there was a delay in me picking up the check, and she felt that she is expected to contribute. I detected a small accent before when she talked, and this time she told me she is from Europe, but came here when she was a child, and in Europe men always pay, its just a very bad manner to let a woman pay, especially on a first date.She also said that she really liked me also, but this feature is the biggest turn off for her, and there is nothing can be done to change that in her. She also said that she heard many times how men think in regards to this issue, and doesn't mind that point of view, but this is how she was brought up and she can't change her opinion about that.I told her that I really don't mind paying at all, if she didn't offer that is what would happen, and I said that if there is anything I can do to change her mind, that I really like her, and I don't want this little thing to come between us. She became kind of sad, and said that she wished it was different for her, but she can't overcome it in men.We even kissed on a cheek afterwards and she left saying, that may be we can stay friends. I can't just stay friends with her, I liked her too much for just being that to her. I told couple of my buddies about it, and all of them told me I don't need a woman like that, she is just going to make me spend on her endlessly, and she is a gold digger. I don't know how it qualifies her as a gold digger. She makes the same or even more money than me. If she wanted my money, she would stay with me, not refusing to see me.Its been awhile since that first unfortunate date, I still can't keep it out of my mind. What do you guys think of this whole situation? Was a terribly wrong in letting her pay? Is she wrong? Is there anything else I can do or say to win her back?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 January 2013): OP! If you still reading it, i wouldn't that much agonize over this girl that you like for the reasons that if she is not able to appreciate you coming up to her and trying to correct the situation, and not willing to simply be tolerant enough to appreciate your effort, the what kind of partner she will be. Unforgiven, not letting you grow as person. I hope she is realizing that most guys would NEVER even try to clarify what happen.She didn't appreciAte the fact that you were trying to communicate with her, which is by itself would be a good sign for me, but was hanging on to her believe.With that said, I also understand where she is coming from.I don't think she was "after your money", that's a just a ridiculous assumption, it was not about money at all. I think it was more about a form which this date took, that made her feel uncomfortable. Just to give an example: my husband and I have this friend who we noticed is on a cheap side. He calls with a spare ticket to a concert, and when we accept the invitation, he mentions after the concert that we need to pay him for that ticket.We go out, my husband buys him a beer, and he doesn't return a favor, later on getting beer just for himself. Other incidents that were plenty made this impression on us. When someone is stingy, this fact can't be hidden, and to tell you the truth is not very pleasant to be around that person.It would be understandable if we knew that our friend is poor or on a very strict budget, but that's absolutely not the case.So, what is it, him being cheap or having bad manners?I think with this girl its just elimination process, especially if she dates a lot. She doesn't know you or other men that she dates, she thinks it's a nice gesture for a guy to pick up that check, she is being nice enough not to order much, and then you let her pay. Why bother on going on, if this is what she doesn't like in men. It's not that she is after money, she simply doesn't want to deal with nuisance.We avoid going out with our friend now, as it creates an unpleasant atmosphere every time he pulls out his calculator to calculate his share. It's the same thing here, why to repeat an unpleasant experience.Also, OP, judging by phrase that you picked a restaurant based on you BOTH having a good job, tells me that you expected her to pay.And then you confirmed it saying that women usually pay their share when they are on a date with you.and this would be fine if she absolutely didn't hate this in men, but she does. May be for her it signifies stinginess, and again she doesn't want to deal with it longer that she did, exactly one night.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (14 January 2013): I find the manners argument perplexing to be honest. So men are the only ones who are expected to have manners? If a guy paying is manners then a woman not paying is bad manners. We can thank a person for paying for us too or having the door open for us too.
You see my views are built up over a lot of years of dating and first dates. Women assume they're great company worth paying for, well news flash ladies, just as about 6/10 of the guys you date aren't great company the same applies to you. You still expect us to pay for bad service? Pay for the meal of an ignorant lady, who is not funny, rude, boring or just a complete idiot? You may not be that kind of lady but I can tell you I've dated some surprisingly ignorant women.
I guess I'd just rather earn a woman's time, love and devotion as the person I am and how I treat all people rather than just pay for it. I'd rather she wanted to spend time with me because I'm a good listener, she thinks I'm funny, attractive, good to people, generous with my time and affection rather than a bunch of antiquated social customs that are in fact demeaning to all women. But guess what, money is more important to some women because despite having all those great qualities and perhaps clicking really well with a woman, she could dismiss me because I didn't pay?
Equality but keep all the special privileges, I don't think so. I want to and have to, as a very wealthy man, ensure that any woman I date is there because she likes me, not just because she'll get a free meal and had nothing better to do. How do I ensure that? By making her pay her own way. If she doesn't see me again, not my loss. Money never meant anything to me even when I was dirt poor and now that I have limitless amounts it means even less, so I throw it around freely and am very generous to my loved ones in terms of ensuring money is not an issue for them. Why would I waste my time on a woman who thinks it's okay to be a free loader because it's tradition? Is she going to be a stay at home wife and speak only when spoken to aswell because that's tradition? No, because she doesn't like those traditions because they don't serve her well. She just wants special treatment and she'll get treated by me in lots of ways mentally, physically, sexually, emotionally but just not to satisfy some idiotic, cheap social custom or impressing a woman by being chivalrous. I'm not a knight and this is not the 1500's.
I think people get the wrong idea about fair share too. For a long time my fiancée earned a lot more than me, and because she wanted a better quality of life and a nice house she was willing to and did pay more money into our duel finances. Equality doesn't have to be 50/50 financially, it doesn't have to mean you have to be strict about never paying or not buying gifts or not holding the door open out principal it means there is a balance in and fairness in every aspect. I'm not against any of those things as acts. I'm against the idea that it's given such importance so early on, that it's a must do for men, well what are the must do's for women in terms of courtesy and manners? Please and thank you? Oh give me a break. Women have just as much to prove to us as we do them, they also have to prove to us they can be reliable, they're not gold diggers etc.
They have to impress me too and it takes a lot more than a low cut top, a new hair do and laughing at our jokes to do that.
One of the previous posters said if you demand equality then a poor woman never stands a chance. Life doesn't have to be so black and white, "pay 50/50 or else" there are a lot of ways to remain equal and people have a lot more to give than just money, so for a woman to think not paying is such a deal breaker she puts that at the top of her list, money is far more important to her than any other quality, it's as simple as that.
The idea that guy is stingy is also a myth and foolish, and if people think a guy not paying is a sign of that then they're a bit myopic.
At the end of the day though, I do have respect the way others choose to conduct their affairs, if a woman wants to cheapen herself by being bought, if a guy wants to pay for a woman's time who hasn't even proven worthy of paying for yet then that's fine.
The way I've done things worked exceptionally well for me, I got sex from the majority of "pay for me" women and had great times dating women with the same views as me and am now planning a no expenses spared, all guests travel costs/expenses paid for, 3 day wedding with one of them (my finacée) in Castello Di Sarzana, although that's subject to change as we're going to do a road trip around European to view Castles and Villas in the summer with the view of buying some summer homes.
Funny that I can and gladly will provide those things for my partner and yet I'm an undesirable partner to a lot of women because I allowed them to pay 10 bucks on a meal on our first date. Ah well, I guess it's more important that he pay on the first date than actually be a good partner, if that's not the case then how come he doesn't get a second chance to impress you in other ways? Strange way of going about life if you ask me, that being a 1950's "gentleman" is more important than life he has to share with you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 January 2013): O, my god, the same story happened to me few days ago. This guy from one of the clubs I belong to asked me on a date. He also asked me if I have preference, and I like that girl said , You pick. So he picked a place where I would never eat if it was my choice as it was way over my head price wise.I also didn't order any entree, only salad, but he ordered a bottle of wine without asking me, just asked what wine I drink. He drank most of the bottle, as I like more sweeter wines and this one was to sour for me.When check came, he didn't pick it up leaving it there for good 10 minutes, and then I couldn't believe my ears, when he asked me , so, how are we going to pay? For a few moments there was silence, and he kept on looking at me, and I finally pulled my card and put it in front of him. I didn't have cash, and this guy was finished for me, he said nothing about me only paying for myself, and I was not shy to ask him: do you want me to calculate my part, or you will do it?What comes next, he opens the bill, puts his glasses on, and for , I m not joking for at least 5 minutes looking at it. Then he goes, here it is your salad, $12, and wine, so how much is it, he asks me.I almost laughed at that point, and calmly asked him, do you want me to split cost of wine with you, because I only had half a glass and you had the rest. He thought for a second, and then said, no, it's ok, wine is on me. I started giggling, I just couldn't help it. I was dying to see the the check, because I saw how much he ordered: there was an appetizer and a steak, and a bottle of wine, and then he had cappuccino. In that place only coffee could be a cost of my salad.It was 134$ tip not included, so with tip it would be $160 dinner, with my part is only 15$. My case was even worse because he actually asked me how we were going to pay. Probably another poor soul who suffered from blood sucking gold diggers, but it was not my concern at that point.I was just thinking if I said nothing and we both paid equal part, who would be a gold digger here?
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female
reader, JADECH  +, writes (11 January 2013):
As an asian girl working independently in Europe with a decente salary,I can fully understand this girls reaction. I wd probbly think he doesnt like me and Im not charming enough, as paying is really the easiest way for guys to impress women. My rule is At the begining:If I like the guy, I dont pay, because I expect him to "buy" my time to him, and hope he will "buy" more in the future. If I dont like this guy, I will politely refuse to be treated, because I wont feel I owe him anything. Sometimes I pay for him, because I dont care abt the limited amount of money, and i dont like spliting either in my culture. After a few weeks, I wd like to share around 30-40pct of the ttl cost, because Im happy to pay while I still enjoy my man showing his gesture to me.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2013): I am a guy, and personally I like to pay on a first date. it is in our culture for a man do all the invites, and I have a very strong feeling for decades to come. Instead of fighting the tradition and have all the rubbish talk about how women are after my money, I date often and always pay the first few dates but I don't take my date, a girl that I don't know well to a fancy restaurant in a beginning.It works both ways: couple drinks or coffee, may be she is not into me and wants to get over with a date soon?Then I'm only spending few dollars, and everyone is happy. Who said dates need to be expensive? Then if a girl is into fancy dates all the time, then she isn't my girl.I had few long term relationship with women who's income was significantly lower than mine. If I had a principal as one of the posters here to equally share everything with a girl, then several of them would be eliminated only based on a fact that they can't afford to go where I like to go. I gladly paid for them, if that was the case.My inexpensive dates worked and work perfectly. I'm not put in a position to count how much I spend on a woman, because it's often really just 5-10$, especially if a woman not a big drinker, she is not put in a position to spend all nite with me in an expensive restaurant knowing that it's not going to go anywhere.I don't know maybe I am the lucky guy, but I have never encountered a woman who went with me for a free meal. Who would such a thing, unless she is homeless or incredibly poor, or simply a low life. Then blame yourself for making wrong choices in picking your date.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2013): "The man did the inviting so the man should pay." This argument falls apart when you remember that men are expected to do most of the inviting in our culture. Go read any advice question about a shy man trying to get more dates. You will ALWAYS hear him being told that he should start doing the approaching because that is normal and expected of men. No matter how it gets explained or justified, men still have to pay a lot more during the process of early stage dating. This is built into our culture and it's left over from the days when men almost invariably made a lot more money. Women, you have to see the numbers involved here. Im sure it doesn't seem like a big deal to ask your man to pay first, since you will be switching off if the relationship continues. The unfairness is not that he has to pay for YOUR first date, it's that he gets expected to pay for almost EVERY first date he goes on with ANYONE. Tons and tons of them don't produced a second date. You think that process is exhausting now? Just try paying for it all at the same time.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2013): I think the best answer that Op is given so far by last poster.I absolutely agree with almost all you said. I'm the same way, I would have no problem paying, unless I was clearly invited. For Me its just good manners, and I have a hard time dealing with social clumps.I also agree that everyone needs to behave themselves without pretending to be someone better, but that a tough task to do. We do though judge a persons character based on his actions. If I m invited by a guy, and he is letting me pay, it could be his lack of manners, or it could be his stinginess. And last is complete deal breaker for me.Have you ever delt with cheap skate? I had friends like that, and to say the truth it's a quite disturbing experience. People like this who count every penny make me feel miserable, I don't want to be around them. There is alway calculation who spent what, or worth, they are using bunch of tricks to save a buck or two, or avoid paying at all.When I see it in a guy or I imagine I see it, it's a huge turn off for me also.So, my question is if you are not like that why even slightly act in a manner who can even remotely resemble stinginess? This is going back to manners. That's why in my opinion first dates are so important to make a good impression, if you are in general a good person, just let the other person see it.Also I kind of understand why the girl didn't give a second chance. Reaching a certain age, I've been to many many dates before I have met my husband. Dating is a an exhausting process. Usually people have more bad dates than good. I came to a point that I don't want to date any more as I felt drained. Patience was gone as far as dealing with all little things like when I need to pay my share when I was invited. It's not about being shallow or a princess, it was about me having no patience left.And I also had situations when a guy didn't understand what went wrong and I was not even nice enough to explain to him. All I wanted is to meet one guy, who will act in a proper for me manner, who yes, Cerebrus, open doors for me instead of running in front of me not even holding a door, yes, I had that too:) a guy who has manners not to call other women gold diggers, I've had that also happened, when during dinner my date started a gold digger talk.I just wanted a nice guy, who was so hard to meet. First date is very important, how are we going to know if you are a nice guy inside if we see all the traits we don't like from the beginning.
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female
reader, Ilha  +, writes (10 January 2013):
Dear OP and fellow agony aunts and uncles,Poor OP just wanted to know what he should do and here there is an ongoing debate about equality, gender, gold diggers etc.OP,1. write a letter like you said you would. Wait for her response2. Move on if she is not giving you a second chance. Not worth it if she can't see that you are really interested in her. I have learnt from experience that you can never judge a person's character and personality based on the first date. So if she will not give you a second chance to know you better, it is her loss. There is someone better waiting for you. Fellow agony aunts and uncles,1. We were all brought up with different values and beliefs. Sometimes our values and beliefs stem from our experience with the opposite sex. So why do we need to judge each other 's beliefs and values?2. Cerberus answers and comments actually shocked me because I found them harsh and uncalled for. There are ways to put across your opinion, comments or answers in a dignified manner. However, I respect his views even though I do not agree with him. He must have been through some experiences to have such strong and intense viewpoint.3. Equality is a concept that most men and sadly some women view it wrongly. Equality is about being treated with the same RESPECT and given the same OPPORTUNITIES regardless of gender. Men and women have different strength and weaknesses, therefore, what men can do physically or biologically cannot be done by women and vice-versa. So it is an unfruitful discussion to talk about equality in physical, biological and emotional aspects cause that is not what the feminist has been fighting for all these years. 4. I am an Asian. Most Asians still uphold our values dearly but we are also losing them slowly because of modernization and influence from the West. However, I have never been bothered about who pays for dates. I have paid many times for my portion on first dates, I even have been courageous enough to ask guys out for dates if I like them. It doesn't make me feel any less or any superior for doing that. What I am trying to say here is, do and act the way you are on your first date. I sometimes tell my dates that we will have separate checks or I will say this is my treat. And if a guy insist on paying, I either let him or I tell him that he will be paying for the next treat. If the guy or girl likes you, they should accept you as you are.5. Lastly, guys, you ask her out because you like her. So just pay, it is not a big deal. I think getting to know a person is more important than all these nonsense about picking up a check. For me that is shallow thinking... but again who am I to judge...Good luck to you,OP
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A
female
reader, maverick494 +, writes (9 January 2013):
Personally as a woman I like to pay my own share.
It's only when a person starts to mean something to me (and I to them) that I may accept treats like them paying my dinner, etc. once in awhile.
The problem for me is that a lot of people, seem to try to buy 'stock' when they get you something. So you're basically tied to them because they did something for you. I don't want to 'owe' people that way or have them use it as leverage over me. So unless I know someone, I don't accept gifts, money or them paying my dinner.
Now obviously not all women think like this, evidenced by your post and some of the reactions here. A lot of girls and women still hold value to the old standards while also wanting the whole equal thing, which makes them hypocrites and turns it into a double standard. Basically they want all the benefits without the cost. That's not how the world works though, and deep down, they should be aware of it.
As for the girl you're interested in: if that was all it took for her to bail, she wasn't worth it anyway. Don't feel bad and don't bankrupt yourself treating a girl next time. I mean seriously, she felt embarrassed by having to reach for her wallet? Who the hell does she think she is? Some princess who gets everything handed to her? Not a good catch my friend, be happy you're rid of her.
She's the type of girl who flirts with guys at parties so they buy her drinks and when she's satisfied she just tells them goodbye and goes home without having paid for anything. That's a shark and you should stay away from her.
Also, please ignore the advice saying you should 'win' her back with more materialistic things. You don't buy people. And those that are for sale don't mean anything they say.
Now, if you're really charmed by a girl you can buy her coffee or something else low cost like a lunch or something, but always make sure that if you do this, you can at least afford it 3 times over.
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female
reader, oldbag  +, writes (9 January 2013):
 Hi
I really don't imagine the average man goes on enough FIRST dates to bankrupt him if he pays for them.Especially if its just lunch or a coffee,even a few drinks
If you get into the equality argument you could start on alot of changes in dating behaviour.
Who asks who out, when to chase or not chase,who rings who after the first date to arrange the next.
Or who proposes and buys the engagement ring.And maybe the grooms father should walk him up the aisle while the bride waits at the alter....
Men will never be 100% equal to women until men can give birth, but thats a whole other discussion
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 January 2013): Wow....a gold digger? All women are gold diggers AND prostitutes? Boy does someone have a very skewed opinion, and thankfully it's just that...an opinion, not a fact.What is lost is people having any sense of courtesy, manners, and being polite.... lost etiquette as well.When you invite someone over for dinner, you are inviting them over and you are providing a meal. It is a polite thing to do and a courtesy thing to do and ask if you can bring something, or automatically show up with a dessert or bottle of wine. If the meal is potluck, that means you are bringing something to contribute to the meal.When you invite someone out for dinner/drink, as in a date, you are expected and should pay for the meal. If you invite someone out to meet up and have dinner/drinks together, that is clearly dutch and everyone pays their own bill.If you call up your friend and tell them that you would like to take them out to dinner, that is a clear indicator that you are taking them out and paying for them. If you call up your friend and say, hey, want to get together and go out to eat, they can decline because they are broke or suggest something inexpensive because they are short on cash, or say sure, that sounds great, where should we go? As examples....If she called him up and said, I would like to take you out to dinner for your birthday, then she would be doing just that. Taking him out and providing a meal for him to celebrate his birthday and she would pay for it.The OP asked a girl out to dinner. It was clearly a date and she was right...it was very bad manners. It was a mistake and easily corrected. Not coming down on OP because he was smart enough to recognize what went wrong and wants to fix it.NONE of this makes all women prostitutes and/or gold diggers. I suppose that ignorant comment was for shock value and/or attention. Some people were brought up with manners and social etiquette, others are not. But everyone should have them to handle different social situations in your personal life, your business/working world life, making friends, forming relationships, etc. People are seriously lacking in this department...but hey, there is always on-line relationships where people never actually meet in person and fall madly in love with words on a screen.... until one computer cheats on the other computer....
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 January 2013): "And women should run as fast as they can from guys like Cerebrus."
Of course they should, I'm spoken for.
Seems it's obvious who the gold digger here is anon. I didn't get rich by dating women like you I can tell you and even when I didn't have money I was never cheap. You see there are a lot more important things in life than money, pity women like you can't see that, actually it's not a pity. I couldn't give a damn haha, being not only set for life but also for many of my future generations is a lovely situation to be in. Want me to pay for your meal? Thanks for the sex afterwards, business transaction done.
You see it's a woman who can so easily be impressed by a guy paying for a meal who is cheap and easy to me. That's all it takes to score browning points? Buying you stuff? Nice and easy.
"Who can possibly wants to marry you, Cerebrus?"
Definitely not a patronising, illiterate anon like you anyway.
"O, wait, you sound like a rich guy, may be your so strong and independent girlfriend is after your money after all?"
Yeah of course, seeing as she earned more than me and paid her fair share for years before I got rich. Definitely only interested in my money, oh wait, she's a consultant psychologist earning a 6 figure salary in the middle of a recession. Go figure that a woman who is willing to pay her own way in life is a huge success in her field.
You see successful people like us break the mould, we don't strive to be debt ridden drones to a demanding gold digger like you or any other mindless traditionalist.
"I want equality but only after you spend your money on me." Nice attitude and sorry no, I have a far better quality of woman to go after rather than buy some cheap gold digger a meal.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 January 2013): I wouldn't let a man pay for me, if I was not interested. So, it's a good sign when a woman lets a man pay for her. I think instead of complAining all the time for not getting sex in exchange for dinner, hahaha, men should budget their income for outing with girls, fair or not fair.
And women should run as fast as they can from guys like Cerebrus. Who can possibly wants to marry you, Cerebrus? O, wait, you sound like a rich guy, may be your so strong and independent girlfriend is after your money after all?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (9 January 2013): If 21st century women want equal incomes with men then they must also accept equal portions of the bills. Expecting anything else is a double standard. "It should just be this way on a first date, men don't have to pay for everything after that." This isn't right either. People always have a lot more first dates than seconds and thirds. It still leaves men paying a far greater portion of the bills in total.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 January 2013): As a woman, with some traditional values, I believe a woman wants to "swept off her feet" and allowing her to pay for dinner when you are making a 1st impression doesn't really seem right. There are plenty of other opportunities for men and women to be equals, but I just don't find it romantic for a guy to allow a woman to pay for dinner, especially if you have long term goals to be with her. That's just my 2 cents.... It kind of ruins the momentum.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (9 January 2013): I’m sorry if I’m being technical here, but if she didn't have cash, only credit card, how would this work? Her share as you said was a fraction of your bill, let's say, $30, yours was let's say a 100$. So, the waitress comes to pick up your check, she puts in her card, you put yours, and then she goes: could you please charge $30 on this card. . What are you going to say in this situation if she said nothing? Would you let her pay the whole half? Not fair isn't it? The golden rule is: you picked a place, you invited her, and you need to pay, gender or no gender. And by the way all the equality talk is just rubbish. Treat your woman as equal, with respect as a possible future mother of your children, and pay for her wherever you can. Women's life is tough, have respect, man, and leave the cheap talk behind. A woman that I paid for is not losing my respect and not being treated as a hooker only because I spent few bucks on her.
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reader, Yos  +, writes (9 January 2013):
 I'm going to have to defend the Euros here. I've lived both sides of the Atlantic and women in the US seem much more touchy about this than in Europe to me at least. I live in the netherlands, now go google the term 'going dutch'.
The guy paying on dates isn't about him paying on those dates. It's about demonstrating he can afford to pay on those dates, and hence isn't an unemployed no-career-prospects bum. For the same reason a guy should wear nice shoes if he wants to impress a woman. If you bear this in mind, realise there are other ways to demonstrate you're not broke without paying for her lunch.
Gotta say though, I don't pay everything on dates except in rare situations. I'm all for equal rights for men and women, and if women are going to ask for equality (which they seem to be doing) then dating protocol gets included in that equality too. Perhaps it means the guy on the date is going to have to be that much more impressive to woo the girl when he doesn't pay for her lobster, but hey, it weeds out the women who are after your money.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): I went on a first date with a guy, for drinks. All I ordered was a Diet Coke. When it came time to pay, he paid for his own drink and then slipped the bill over to me. Are you kidding me??? He just put the nail in his own coffin. There are still some unwritten rules. One is that a man should pay on a first date. Most women will be turned off if he does not and will not want a second date. That's just the way it is. It's called valuing and liking a woman enough to make the best first impression possible. If they don't try hard enough, it gives you a peek into what they would be like if you were in a relationship together. Not trying enough. Not caring enough. Not wanting to impress you enough. We women like to be impressed by a man and we like to be swept off our feet. This guy who made me pay for my one single Diet Coke kept calling my house afterwards. Had no clue! I asked my mom to tell him I was finished!! Lol Translation: "Don't call me anymore!" You blew it big, time, Buddy!"So my opinion is that if you want to get a second date, pay up. My husband paid on the first date and continued to pay each and every time after during our whole year courtship. Why? Because he was seriously interested in me and wanted to do anything for me. Unfortunately, in today's world, we don't see these kinds of men very often.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): Drif: you've made yourself out to be a 'decent guy'. Actually, if you weren't in it for the sex, you wouldn't have mentioned it on here, & calculated what it would cost for an escort. lol.
O.P: One more thing, that I'm not sure anyone else has mentioned (there are a lot of replies) but if she is very good looking, she will be used to guys spoiling her, and from her pov, on the date it does sound like she was being polite by not ordering much, as she thought you were going to pay.
Cerberus: A woman who offers to pay when there is a pause picking up the bill is not a gold digger. A gold digger would order the most expensive meal going, anything else she can get her hands on & expect the man to pay. If the women you know are going on dates for free meals, then yeah, they're selling their time. But I think most people, myself included would see this behaviour as disgusting as a man who leads a woman on for sex. These people who abuse the fact that someone might like them and want to see them, to get something they want & have no intention of being with them.
In regards to Equal Rights: No-one is forcing the Man to pay- you can ask the woman to pay! She might not like it, but then she's not the woman for you now is she? Be warned though, if you do want her to pay, you can also expect to do half the chores when you live with her, and you can stay at home with the kids whilst she works, and you shouldn't have a problem with her earning more than you.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (8 January 2013):
 Drif,
with all due respect, 551 dollars will not get you hours of kinky intercourse with any quality hookers... just cheap girls. remember you get what you pay for.
As for shelling out money on dates.... ya know the first date is one thing... even the second and third....
but by the fourth date... start finding cheaper stuff to do my friend.
museums.... many are free.... especially around where I live... those are always nice dates.
a picnic in the park in the spring... (not good now in the cold)
dates do NOT always have to be dinner and a movie, which in my youth a movie was like 5 dollars if that much and dinner... maybe 30 with tip.... now we can't get away with a dinner and movie date for under 150 dollars.
dinner with drinks: 75 dollars (and I'm a light eater)
movie tickets 30 dollars
popcorn and soda 20 dollars
then there's gas and wear and tear on the car.
no dating even casually is no longer cheap....
but in case you need more cheap date ideas:
http://www.redbookmag.com/love-sex/advice/cheap-date-ideas#slide-1
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reader, kirra07  +, writes (8 January 2013):
I think it's too bad that the serial daters and gold diggers out there spoil it for the rest of the decent women who want to be treated on their first dates and are planning on making it equal. I have never serially dated anyone and all the guys I had first dates with I later on had 2nd, 3rd, etc. dates with and dated at least 6 months for. And it was nice to be treated, but I didn't take advantage. First bf was a poor student just like me, so we normally took turns paying when we went out to eat. I think our first date was a cup of hot chocolate. If he hadn't bothered to pay the $1.65 or whatever, I think I would have been offended. Second bf was very traditional in not wanting to let the girl pay. But after a few dates that made me uncomfortable, so when he took me to a more expensive seafood restaurant, I snuck off pretending to go to the bathroom but paying the bill instead.
It's not that decent women want to use men and get every dollar they want out of them. But it's a good way to tell whether the man is stingy or will keep track of every penny. I don't want to spend the end of my date whipping out a calculator and adding up each item that we consumed. Or if we had an appetizer, but one of us ate more of it than the other, would we split the cost that way? 60% to one and 40% to the other? Money isn't something that people enjoy dealing with in relationships unless maybe you're married or have pooled your finances. If I decide to move in with a boyfriend, sure we would share the rent 50/50 and probably all the other costs as well, utilities and internet and what not. But then would we have to sit down and divide costs based on who used as much as who? If the guy eats more should he pay more for the groceries? Or television usage? etc? Thank goodness my husband and I combined our finances together and no longer have to worry about who is paying for what.
Money is an uncomfortable topic even outside of romantic relationships. I rented the basement of someone's house for awhile, and it was uncomfortable tallying up the costs and discussing splitting things. I had my normal rent, but then also shared in the utilities, internet, etc. Also, my landlord would charge me each time I had my boyfriend stay over. She referred to it as covering the utilities, but it was $10 a night, and his possibly taking a 5 minute shower would not amount to that. So it was about money. And while that's fine, we were in a financial transaction, it made interacting with each other uncomfortable to an extent.
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (8 January 2013):
 SVC, when you say "all the men with RJ" you weren't referring to retro jello molds were you?
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): I have to say I totally disagree with most people here. I have always offered to pay half on dates and I am happy to follow through on that offer too. Why should the guy have to foot the bill all the time? Back in the days when women stayed at home then fair enough the man would pay and quite rightly so, but nowadays I think it's outdated and unfair to expect that. I agree with your friends that dating her would be very hard work. The fact she was so bothered by this that she left also proves that she put some outdated tradition ahead of the person you are and the nice night you had just had together. I personally think you can go better. PS - I am from Europe too so this has nothing to do with that.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): What does niceness has to do with equality? What is all this endless talk about equality? The history of women's movement should be learned before you start your favourite subject of equality. Women wanted to be equal in social right like voting, be paid for the same job the same as men, which is still not happening most of the time.
If you want everything to be equal, then get a vagina and start having babies. I dont know where you find these women who live for just manipulating men C., not in my surrounding.
It was a good lesson to learn, OP, but i agree with others that there was another agenda here. Or we dont really see the significance of that night how your girl sees it. A letter would be nice, go for it!
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): "gawd we can't win can we?"
We can, get rid of that stupid custom and start everything on an equal footing, where neither party is used.
Besides, my views are the minority. There is no way women will give up their easy ride and I highly doubt men want to put more effort to impress in ways that aren't as easy as just paying, holding the door etc. Why make any effort when you can just pay?
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (8 January 2013):
If I ask, I pay.
If he asks, he pays.
If I ask, I'm a cheap whore who doesn't let a man be a man.
If he pays I'm a whore who's supposed to sleep with him
then we toss in all the men with RJ who won't date me because I put out for guys like Cerberus...
gawd we can't win can we?
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): "Cerberus, I knew you were going to say that !"
Am I that predictable? Okay I am, haha.
"you do not sound like a stingy type ). I wonder what exactly bothers you so much about paying for a lady's meal."
This is exactly my problem with it. A guy gets labelled as stingy or cheap for it. But the woman doesn't get labelled as stingy for expecting the guy to pay. Huge double standard.
It means the entire expense of dating falls on us and say for guys who aren't that successful then the women get free trials and he gets nothing but to foot the bill. That very same guy will be told by women to keep trying, so he'll spend 100's maybe 1000's trying to find a woman who will date him further.
They are nice for women but if things don't work out, she got free food, drink, got wined and dined and what does he get? Rejection and 100's of bucks out of pocket only to have to do it all again, while she gets another free meal ticket with another guy.
I'm against it because it's very unequal. I have serial dating female friends who do it just for the meal and stuff because it's free and they're bored, not bad women, it's just what's done.
Now by far the biggest thing women use guys for is money and material things. That's a given and guys use women mainly for sex. Can you imagine it was tradition to impress a man by sleeping with him on the first date and women who didn't are prudes who shouldn't even be considered if they didn't at least give you a blow job? but that's unthinkable exploitation because there's no guarantee he'll stick around. So why pay so much money on a woman who is not guaranteed to stick around either? Escorts are cheaper in that respect and you will not get rejected.
Women are basically exploiting an old custom from when they were property of men and had no money of their own to their benefit to exploit guys for free stuff. They get a free ride, get to pick and choose and then get to ditch guys they don't like at no expense. It's basically using a guy and it's an accepted practice. Even lying and deceit is an accepted part of the game, the woman will offer to pay but if you let her, you're just a cheap degenerate in her eyes, a sly little trick I must say.
Am yeah, no thanks. Start a relationship with that kind of manipulation and exploitation? I don't think so, I'll play that game to get what I want too and it won't be Mrs stingy's heart I want.
So my reasoning is, if I'm going to pay I'm damn well going to get my money's worth and get a shag. We either start as equals or I use you like you're using me.
I just think it's hilarious, because I'm far from stingy, I just paid off my fiancées parent's mortgage as an engagement gift so they'd never have to worry about losing their house and can put all their money into savings and stuff instead.
I was raised by women, with three sisters and have always had close female friends. I treat them as equals, not dainty princesses who deserve special treatment just because of their gender. I was raised to value the strength and independence of a woman and to respect them until they give me reason not to, just like men. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I'm cheap for not wanting to pay? Then you're an escort for wanting me to pay for your time.
Social customs be damned. It was customary to beat the shit out of your wife if she spoke out of place too, but we dropped that for good reason. Now that women can pay their own way in life it's time they stepped up and did their part for promoting true equality. Special treatment or equality which is it you want?
/rant over. haha.
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reader, oldbag +, writes (8 January 2013):
Hi
Women don't have to be bought on a first date or impressed by money.
I have never had to pay for a meal on a first date,if I was expected to I would be put off too. I have bought a drink for a man after the restaurant though a few times, that was my choice as was having a good time.Not bothered by sharing cost 50/50 later in relationship either.
When you invite a woman on a first date your asking for her company,to get to know her,you choose the place, have a good time, pay the bill.At your age you should know these things.Just like you would make sure they get home safe, not abandon them alone at night.You wait for her cab or walk her to her car.Its polite and shows you are somebody decent.
I can see her view but I think there's more to it for her.I think it was only part of the reason she doesn't want to see you again as her reaction,even after you apologised is a bit cold (in my opinion)
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reader, CindyCares  +, writes (8 January 2013):
 Errata corrige : It should read " I'll be especially lavish with your Xmas and birthday GIFTS "- of course if I 'd try to thank you for a whole year of fancy dinners with a " Merry Xmas, pal ", then I AM a gold digger,lol !
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): Thank you very much for answering, all of you. Whether i agree or disagree with your answers, your input is appreciated. For me it was a good lesson to learn, but frankly its the first incident that occured in regarding to this issue, i dont know how much you can believe me. I heard here and there guys talking about how women made them take them out, how they spent so much and didnt get anything back(sex). I dont go on dates to get just sex. I can get sex going to a bar and pick up someone just for that night, which is also not in my practice. If it happens it happens, but its not my aim.I take girls on dates because initially i like them. I dont mind paying for dinners, drinks, etc, it would be actually my pleasure, but it was never an issue whatsoever before with any woman i have been with. I also was in a 7 year relationship since i was in my mid twentie, its not like i dated 100s of women before, but a decent amount. I deffinitely dont share an opinion that all women are gold diggers, and sell themselves, This is in my mind is way out of line.I wish i coulld turn it back, but i will follow the advice to write to her, i dont know about roses, but i will wright a letter explaining myself, this is all i can do, i think
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (8 January 2013):
Cerberus, I knew you were going to say that ! , because I know you feel strongly about this subject ( strange, btw, because from what you write in general, , about your gf, and mom, and friends, presents you get them, helping them out with problems, etc. ... you do not sound like a stingy type ). I wonder what exactly bothers you so much about paying for a lady's meal.
Yes, it's a social convention, in most case made superfluous by changes in women's roles in society and their having their own jobs and income. Yes, it is a tradition, outdated and silly like many traditions. Why do we keep unnecessary traditions. Because they are NICE and feel nice regardless of their silliness, I guess. Most traditions are stupid. Xmas trees. What's so cool in keeping a( fake or real ) tree for a couple of weeks in a modern apartment ? it's an apartment, not a forest. Birthday wishes . What's so cool in reminding a person that he/she is a year closer to death ? And yet, if one year I had to have my birthday totally go unnoticed and uncommented, I would cry. And probably, you would too :) .
Paying on a first date - yes, I can easily pay for my own dinner without endangering my finances. Also, I am the kind of person who can like indifferently rich guys AND broke guys, regardless of what they can offer me materially. If you stuff me with oysters and champagne I won't like you more for that . BUT, I admit that if you insist for going dutch at Starbucks ,particularly on a first date, I'll probably like you a bit less.
Because yes, I appreciate the homage, the effort, the aknowledgement that you are interested enough and intrigued enough to make a little sacrifice . You could spend those 20 or 50 or what is it, to get something for yourself, and instead you decide to spend them on me, shows me that at least the initial interest is sincere, you don't want just to kill an hour or avoid to eat alone , you want to COURT me. You want to make me feel special, and I like that- and feel a bit disappointed when you bypass it.
All women like to be " princessed ", If you " princess " me, at least at the very beginning , sure I won't know if you are a good guy, if you'll treat me well, if you'll be faithful... but I'll know that you are keen enough to do something against your immediate convenience.
How does it go on from there, should I not " prince " you back, should we not be equally chivalrous mutually ?
Sure, and this is in my view , what separates a cheap gold digger and spoiled brat from a woman of taste and quality.
If I'm only after free meals and drinks, I'll milk out the situation to the most and drag it on until I find a better offer. If I am not,if I am into you and have your interest at heart, I'll let you do the chivalrous bit at the very beginning, then if our meals out become a habit , I'll insist for paying my share AND for picking up the whole tab occasionally. I'll accept graciously and casually the movie tickets or cab fare or drinks ,... and I'll be especially lavish with your Xmas and birthday wishes, and I'll surprise you every now and then with sport events tickets or your favourite books or that clothing item you said you were going to buy yourself one of these days.
At the end ,we 'll end up reasonably more or less even, and nobody will feel exploited, - if we are both decent people.
Why all the rigmarole, could we not simply pay every time exactly,rigorously what each consumed, I pay my beer you pay your glass of wine... well yes, we could , it's not forbidden, it's just less- gentle , I guess, and sort of implies we don't trust each other with money and we feel the other could easily take advantage.
Back to the OP, yes, I see how she could see the way you acted as clumsy , and lacking in social skills. I mean, you invited her on a date! , you weren't just two office buddies going for a companionable slice of pizza during a lunch break, you should have dived on that restaurant check like a kingfisher :). Considering that she did not take advantage, she just got an appetizer and some wine, come on man, it would not have killed you to say " no no, forget it, that's on me " : you missed an occasion to look corteous and attentive with very little expense. I can see how she would have NOTICED.
From that, to make it the huge dealbreaker she made of it, then no, I don't agree . Not everybody is born suave and debonair like Cary Grant, basically it was more a misunderstanding than a real faux-pas, and you have been nice enough to enquire what was wrong, and to apologize . So, if she won't gave you a second chance JUST because of this, either she had realized that you are not her type regardless of this , or.. she IS too high maintenance for your own good.
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reader, Ciar +, writes (8 January 2013):
 This is not simply a gender issue.
When you invite someone for lunch or dinner (any meal really) it is generally understood that the person extending the invitation is the one providing that coffee or meal, whether you cook yourself it or buy it.
Guests don't usually come to your home expecting to cook or clean up afterwards, right? They may offer to help, depending on the occasion and the nature of your acquaintance, but most hosts graciously decline. They want their guests to relax and enjoy themselves.
Things are obviously less formal with people you're more familiar with.
Again, generally speaking, men tend to do the pursuing while women tend to be the pursued. She's probably had more men approach her than you've had women approach you. She has more options so you have more competition. The more competition you have the harder you have to work to inspire her to choose you over someone else.
Companies who want you to spend your money on their products or services know you have plenty of other companies to choose from so many of them will sweeten the pot with additional incentives. Does this make customers gold diggers? of course not.
She can't be accused of being a gold digger any more than you can be accused of being shallow. It's her appearance that has made her desirable to you after all. You won't know how smart she is or what kind of person she is unless you'd gotten to know her. You might want to point that out to your friends who have been quick to judge her.
She sounds like a mature and dignified woman. She wasn't impressed with the how the date ended, but continued to treat you with courtesy. When she did explain what bothered her she was honest, but as diplomatic as she could have been by the sounds of it. And apart from accepting her offer to help pay the bill, you handled this pretty well yourself.
I wouldn't count on a second date though you never know what the future holds. Lesson learned for the future.
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reader, Hennessy1989 +, writes (8 January 2013):
 Honestly, me and my girlfriend always pay for eachother, we've been together 3 years, but when I first met her I paid for everything, it's what you do man, especially on the first date when you asked her out! It's old fashioned I know but it impresses a girl, girls don't like guys who are tight. I'm not saying spend all your money on her but pay for the first few dates, then when she offers down the line let her pay half. It sounds like you've blown your chances.
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reader, Serpico +, writes (8 January 2013):
I do think this is kind of funny. Women often want equal everything, except when it comes to the man paying. Its either 1950 rules or 2013 rules. I don't care which you take, just be consistent once you do.
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reader, Honeypie +, writes (8 January 2013):
 I have NEVER been asked on a date and paid for my meal. Now if I asked someone out, it would be my treat.
From a woman standpoint (and one with old-fashioned views at that) If a GUY ask a woman out on a date, he picks the restaurant and he pays. Even IF she offers, he will refuse that (maybe suggest, you can pay for a cup of coffee next time we run into each other) but to me, decorum dictates that a MAN who have asked out the WOMAN pays.
She was being POLITE by not ordering anything fancy or expensive because she didn't want you to think she was materialistic. SHE was being considerate in her choice of food.
The fact that you are in your 30's and don't know this is kinda scary....
You can try the flowers but I think you missed the boat on this girl.
And Cerberus, I normally agree with you, but I think you are totally off the mark of a woman's viewpoint.
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reader, GabbieD +, writes (8 January 2013):
I had no idea people were so old-fashioned about dates, when they (speaking "they" in general here) are so liberal about pre-marital sex.I hate it when guys pay on first dates. Samantha Jones from the TV show Sex and the City once said "money is power. Sex is power". I agree. Money IS power, and by letting guys pay for your dinners, you're essentially saying "okay, you have purchased my time", meaning "you can do whatever you want with my time now". That's what purchase means; if you buy a Gucci dress and decide to make it into a stew and eat it, no one will say anything. Not ALL Europeans are like that. I grew up in England and I still pay my portion of it. If it's 3rd, 4th date, then I'll be a bit more relaxed about it, but if men and women are created equally, then shouldn't the 1st date (which is more like friends having fun or worse, a job interview over dinner) be equal weight on both shoulders? My answer: move on. Not because she has, but because she clearly has different values than you. Look at it this way: you didn't want to "buy" her, and she got upset. Would you really want someone who wants to be bought?
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): Not only women can be gold diggers, men can be those as well.Why put a label like that only on female population, talking about equality.Code Warrior, OP didnt say she ordered the most expensive dish, the oposite, she almost ordered nothing.most of what Cerebrus said i disagree with, his 'honest'opinion about women sounds like a hate talk. but one thing i agree with is that , if its not as important to you as it is to Cerebrus to pick up the check, do it. You never know what a woman is like, bt you cant go wrong with offering to pay.There are some women out there of course who for some reason will take it as offence. I dont let a guy pay even on a first date if he is an absolute ,no, for me. I m a little surprised though that the girl took it so close to heart. If she likes you thats a bit harsh attitude not to give you another chance. Try one more time, i would write to her, carefully choosing words, may that will help. Also the fact that she was born into Europian family deffinitely contributed to the fact.Different points of view.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): O, Cerebrus, poverino!
I think you are mixing up a lot of different issues, and again it's just your opinion. You right, the fact that men pay and hold doors is not a sign of him being a decent human being, but how do we know anyway in a beginning? We have to at least see some signs that are promising:)
How do you recognize a good man from bad on a first few dates, because he chats you up nicely, how can you see through through a load of BS that the feed you just to get you in bed?
I don't think you understand a meaning of gold digger, men or women. Gold digger is a person who usually don't have money of their own, and is on a hunt for the opposite party money. Gold diggers are ONLY in for the money.
In this situation we see an independent financially woman, who could care less about few dollars that she spent, but she cared about a good gesture.
By the way, the only reason why I want a guy to open a door for me, is because I weigh 105 lb, and some doors for me it's just impossible to open on a first try, talking about equality:).
Also, and this is an important fact about us women you need to understand, Cerebrus. Knowing a male nature how you would basically have sex with anything that moves, we need you to show us that at least for these first dates we are SOMEHOW special to you, that you at least like us. Yes, it's is a monetary proof, but at least that you are willing to spend some on us, and then we can go from there. I don't know if you are a nice guy whether you handsome, nice on a first date, this is way to easy for you, just to be that, no effort whatsoever. When you pay, at least I have some miserable proof thAt you MIGHT be that guy,and if its so easy for you just to pretend being what we want, why not be it. You were right here!
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): OP the best advice I got a long time ago from a buddy was this: "all women are prostitutes for the first few dates and you have buy them, forget how nice you are, how funny you are or how handsome you are, women see dating as a monetary transaction more than anything else, they're selling themselves and a "gentleman" will be willing to buy them". Now obviously he was speaking "guy talk" and not exactly the nicest of language but the principle is the same. You have to buy them.
I mean that woman sounds like she was actually eager and regretted not being able to see past the fact you didn't want to buy what she was selling. And I know for a fact the previous lady posters here are thoughtful, caring, generous women with lovely souls but even they cannot get over the fact a guy isn't willing to buy them, seal the deal by paying for their time.
She is gold digger OP most women are. In the sense of those first few dates, it's how they were raised. A "gentleman" will pay for a woman's time, much like a prostitute. It's kind of the same thing, but they generally like to soften it and make it sound like it's tradition or he's taking care of them. Well personally I like to be taken care of too, so I'm an equal payment kind of guy unless I just want sex. If I just want sex I'll pay because it is by far the easiest way to convince a woman you're a nice guy. Pay for the meal, pay for the drinks, take her home or pay for the taxi and you're a "gentleman", as soon as they think that then you're in. The more you spend the nicer a guy you are, it's kind of great that way as they truly are suckers for those ancient coded "gentleman" thing. You don't even have to be nice, just pay, hold doors open, buy flowers, compliments, gifts etc. It's great you literally have to put no thought into it and they think you have put thought into it haha.
OP honestly, just pay in future and forget this woman. You've blown it with her. Her friends have all labelled you cheap, she can't go back on that, she now thinks you're cheap too and not a gentleman.
Remember women have to be bought. They talk about equality but they still want special treatment when it suits them. They want to earn their own wage but still want the guy to pay. The 'whoever invites to dinner has to pay is a pretty sneaky one too because honestly it's us who have to ask the other to dinner, isn't it? When's the last time a woman asked you out to dinner first?
Don't waste any time on this one, and take my attitude and how I worded this post with a pinch of salt. I don't view women who demand payment as prostitutes, I just don't see how chivalry is relevant anymore and why when they want to be equals they can't be chivalrous to us.
On the plus side though paying makes women very easy to us. You score a hell of a lot of "gentleman" points by doing something as menial as holding a door or paying even if you don't give a shit about that kind of thing. Takes all the work out of trying to impress them, be a good habit to pick up just for that reason.
Now don't think I think negatively or gold diggers or as they like to call themselves "traditionalists". I don't. They were just naively raised to view themselves monetarily and signs of a gentleman as being a guy who is willing spend all his money on them. Unfortunately for them even rapists and violent abusers can pay for dates and guys like me who used them for one night stands used paying as a means to score points to bed them, very efficiently too.
Obviously your attitude is nothing like mine, but do pay. Dating is a means to impress a woman, women are very impressed by a guy who is willing spend money on them. Very impressed. So just pay and take some of the effort out of dating for yourself. Read some articles about scoring gentleman points too OP. You'd be surprized by the amount of meaningless little gestures that can really impress women. I mean they don't love those cheesy romance movies for nothing. That shit really works.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 January 2013): Yes, you should not have allowed her to pay, even if she offered. She was being polite, but you totally messed that one up. If you ask a women out on a date, you pay for it. If she asks you out on a date, maybe she pays for it, but that depends on the women.I would just be straight forward and tell her, and not through a text message. In person.Tell her you would like a redo. You realize you made a mistake and if you could take it all back you would not have allowed her to pay, but didn't want to come across as too old fashioned, whatever, just ask if you can start over and give you another chance. You really enjoy her company and would like to get to know her even better. And really roll out the red carpet for this girl and turn this around.If she is interested in you, she will give you another chance...I mean it's not the worse thing a guy could do, so she should be able to let it go. If she still won't go out on another date, it's probably another reason (nothing to do with paying or not paying, just using as an excuse) and probably time to just move on and let it go.Good luck! I hope you will let us know what the outcome is!!!
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reader, AuntyEm +, writes (8 January 2013):
 I also wanted to say 'Good on you' for having the courage to actually find out exactly what the problem was...a lot of men would have given up, so I truly hope you can find a resolution.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (8 January 2013):
IF you asked her out, you should have paid in full.
My rule always was the person who asks pays.
Maybe I'm old school that way....
I make a lot more money than my now hubby. When we started dating... you bet he paid every penny the first few dates... I never even OFFERED. He didn't get mad. Thankfully, although he's only 39 he was raised OLD SCHOOL and men pay for dates....
WHEN she offered, the proper response would have been "oh no my treat" and not only pay the bill in full but TIP generously (I would stop dating a man who was a stingy tipper or who stole sugar packets or such from the table... taking leftovers home is one thing... putting sugar packets in your pocket is wrong)
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reader, AuntyEm +, writes (8 January 2013):
I must admit that it would be a turn off for me too. It has nothing to do with being a gold diger and most women are happy to share the cost of dates, but those first few dates are about making a good impression and ladies do like to be mde to feel they are worth the price of a meal.
It's such a simple thing but it means a lot and can make the difference between a second date or saying goodbye
I still think you can salvage things by showing a token of generosity, but that does not mean you should have to shower your date with treats and gifts forevermore...she may very well turn out to be a gold digger but if you like her enoghitmight be worth splashing a little cash to find out...Hopefully if she likes you enough and doesn't think your a tight wad (which you arn't)she will meet you half way!!
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (8 January 2013):
I think the flowers are a great idea. Whether it works or not, at least you would have given the relationship another shot and you'll have your answer. By the way, I'm from the school that says whoever asks for the date pays for the date.
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reader, Anonymous 123 +, writes (8 January 2013):
 That's just how she thinks OP and I'm afraid you cant do anything to undo what you've done. To be honest, I too would be slightly offended if my date couldn't even foot my share of the bill of appetizers and some wine. It doesn't come to much and its just a matter of attitude when you insist on paying. It goes to show that you are a gentleman who wont let the lady pay, at least on the first few dates. You could have always worked out the logistics of who pays how often and when at a later stage, certainly not at the very beginning! I personally don't like anyone paying for me but it always feels nice when a man insists on paying, at least I know he's treating me right.
Maybe she did make a bigger issue about it than others would have, rather than just dismissing it, but that's how she is and you cant do anything about it. This is obviously a deal breaker for her.
I dont know if you can win her back, you can try with a big bunch of roses maybe! If it work, great! If it doesn't then you learn from your mistake and on future dates, insist on paying.
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reader, k_c100 +, writes (8 January 2013):
 I'll be honest, I would feel the same as her too! If a guy takes a while to pay for the check, then I would feel forced into offering to pay/contribute, but at that point I would still hope that the guy would say "Dont worry, I'll get it". If he didnt say anything, or said "Ok" then I would know this is a bad sign. It would show me that the guy isnt traditional, and wants a more equal 50/50 type relationship and that simply is not me.
I am quite traditional, I like to feel the guy is taking care of me and in turn I take care of him. With my boyfriend and I for example, he paid for a lot at the start of the relationship and now we live together I do the majority of the house work - so I'll do all the ironing, washing, cleaning etc. I am a traditional person and when I was dating I was looking for someone that shared those same values, if a guy wanted me to contribute then I would know we are too different to ever be compatible.
Just because a girl expects a guy to pay on the first date doesnt mean she is a gold digger, it is just that she has different values to you. It is nothing to get worked up about, it just seems you are both too different to ever work out in the long run, she has recognised that early and has moved on.
I earn more than my boyfriend, so it wasnt about finding a man for his money, it was about finding a guy who will treat me like a lady, who shares traditional values like me and who makes me feel special.
Women are quite simple, we like to be treated like a princess, made to feel special and if a guy thinks we are worth buying dinner that makes us feel good. We are not gold diggers, we are not high maintenance or demanding - we simply want to feel special for those first few dates. If you have been dating for a couple of months then things start to even out and the girl may start paying, but in those early dates we want to see if the guy is keen or not. If he is willing to pay to take you out a couple of times, it shows he is keen and really wants to get to know you better.
Can you do anything to win her back? I very much doubt it. Perhaps you could try one last gesture - a big bunch of flowers and champagne is never a bad thing, but it sounds like she has already made her mind up that you are not compatible because you have different values, and it will be very hard to change that I'm afraid.
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