A
female
age
36-40,
*W
writes:HiI accidently got pregnant last summer with my boyfriend (we've been a steady couple for 3 years) and then had a early miscarriage. I took the MC very bad but by bf just shook the whole thing off as "those things happen". Now I've been wanting to try for another kid since I warmed up to the idea of us becoming parents together, but my bf wants to wait. He has all these expectation in us both getting steady jobs/fulltime jobs, and in my sort of branch a full time emplyment is very hard to come by. We both have plenty of money (enough to buy a house without getting a loan even without selling our apartment first, f.ex.) and he could get full emplyment anyday but he rather just works half time to have time to fix and fiddle with his old cars. *Sighs*I'm tired of him making excuses for not getting engaged or havening a kid and telling me to stop dreaming and "start" my life, but he isn't really starting his own life. I want us to start a life together! I'm studying at the moment and working weekends to earn my living but I want us to be serious about our relationship and it feels like he is just avoiding my questions about our future with "later I will work full time, later when you might get a fulltime job too, later when I might have bought a house, later I will stop fiddling with my cars and computers and spend time with you, later when we have kids and really need to get married we will (about engagment)" etc. To add to the problem I found out when I got my miscarriage that I will have trouble getting pregnant in the future (because of disease and strong medicine) which I took as a hint to "start ASAP and maybe you will get lucky because it's not easier getting pregnant when you're 30+" but my bf just says that it's rare having conciving problems and that now is not the time, "we should wait" "when we both have worked full time for at least a year" (you get money to support you while your home with your kid and the amont of money is based on how much income you've had the last year, for all of you who don't know the strange swedish rules).I don't know what to do. I love him, but I think he's acting irrational about our future and the whole problem with me wanting kids and he wanting to wait has just shown it to me. Is it wrong of me to want a kid, especially now when the due date is approaching and it's making me ace with dread and sadness? Is my bf a lost cause (he knows my fears and my feelings and yet he has ignored them for a half year now and hasn't even met me halfway by saying things like "if it means a lot to you we can get engaged" or "I want to wait for 1 more year, then we can have kids")? I know I can't make him want kids or anything, but I want him to take me and my opinions and feelings more seriously. This is makeing me feel like I'm just a crush, nothing serious. I just want opinions on if I'm being irrational. Please.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (20 December 2011): I think your boyfriend is behaving like many other young men do nowadays: in an extremely selfish, irresponsible, and childish way. I was with a guy like this for 16 years, and they NEVER grow up. He didn't want to get married, came up with crazy plans for starting stupid businesses all the time (and I mean REALLY stupid), he wanted to do nothing but watch movies, play computer games and go on the internet, and he was really controlling. Eventually I got sick of it. I moved out and started a new life, and I'm now with an amazing guy, who works hard and loves his job, who's so much fun to be around, and who's asked me to marry him. I have everything I always wanted, but if I'd stuck where I was, I'd still be miserable and unhappy. I now really regret that it took me so long and that I wasted so many years. Don't let that happen to you. Fidelity is a virtue, but only up to a point.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (20 December 2011): Firstly let me say I am sorry for your miscarriage. I was in a similar situation, unplanned pregnancy and miscarried early, and it really devastated me. Due to the circumstances I was told I may never be able to have children, it is extremely devastating. It's easy to feel the need to do it right now, but your boyfriend is saying not right now. Have you been to counseling, it could help you. Maybe your boyfriend is worried that your motives are more about having a baby because of the one you both lost, rather than wanting one because you want one with him right now, sort of like replacing the one you lost by having another one. I understand that this isn't necessarily the case for you, but it could be a fear for him. He may also feel it is too soon after losing one, and he wants to deal with the loss before trying for another baby. No-one can really tell you why, the fact is he doesn't want one right now, and by trying to push him into wanting one you may find that he pulls away from you and you could lose him altogether. Try finding a counselor to talk to about the loss you have suffered and how you are feeling, it may help and also help you find the solution. Good Luck, I wish you all the best.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (20 December 2011): 'I took the MC very bad but by bf just shook the whole thing off as "those things happen"'
'he could get full emplyment anyday but he rather just works half time to have time to fix and fiddle with his old cars'
'he isn't really starting his own life'
'he is just avoiding my questions about our future'
'he knows my fears and my feelings and yet he has ignored them for a half year now and hasn't even met me halfway'
'I don't see him sorting out his life or "getting a move on"'
'It jsut feels like he is playing around, but he gets very upset whenever I suggest anything of the sort'
'I suddenly feel that maybe he doesn't care what I want, he just wants things to be done his way.'
'we really don't want the same thing'
'If I didn't love him and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him (at least up until we got this argument) I wouldn't even consider kids with him (ticking clock or not).'
IW, all above quotes are taken directly from your posts.
My impression is your bf is an immature, insensitive, inconsiderate, lazy, unmotivated, uncompromising, selfish, controlling jerk whose goals and expectations (such as they are) are totally and completely incompatible with what you envision, present and future.
Yet you "love him," "want to spend [your] life with him" and are apparently desperate to conceive another child with him.
One question: WHY????????
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (20 December 2011): Move on, it's clear that he's not on the same page as you and thus your options are not good. either you will end up waiting for him indefinitely until your biological clock is passed, or at some point you will pressure him into marriage and kids and he'll do it reluctantly and have lingering unhappiness that eats away at the relationship in the future. you do have a third option, which is to let go of your expectations to have your own biological child. For example, you can adopt later on. This will free you to love him enough that you can wait for him as long as it takes and still be happy and content. You have a better chance of changing yourself than changing another person. when people can only be happy through ONE path and one path only, they more often than not end up unhappy.
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male
reader, Danielepew  +, writes (20 December 2011):
 I come from a region where having children is seen in a different (and perhaps more irresponsible) way. I don't have children myself, but one pearl of wisdom people gave me once is this: "If you wait until the situation is perfect to get married and have children, then you will never get married and have children". How many of us were born under perfect circumstances?
I wonder if any of us could ever give his or her job and material comfort for granted. It seems you cannot have kids unless you can offer them Heaven first.
Beyond that, the basic flaw I find in many people's arguments is that they are assuming that Mr. IW does not want children because he is a very responsible guy. Has any of you thought that it might not be the case? Maybe he doesn't want children because he doesn't want children, and his waiting for the Kingdom of the Heavens to come is just a way to say no without it looking like he said no.
Personally I don't buy the responsibility thing. If he wanted a child, he would work to support the child. He isn't doing that.
When I was in high-school I had this womanizer of a friend. He was just not interested in anyone; the classic example of the guy who just has "one thing" in mind. He impregnated someone and suddenly decided that he would take care of her and the baby, and he did. His situation was not perfect -far from it-. These were teen-agers, mind you.
Whatever Mr IW's reasons, if we take Ms. IW's side, the only thing we can tell for certain is that Mr. IW does not seem willing to have a child right now. She can make a decision on that basis. We all agree that he does not seem likely to change his mind.
By the way, I also have a friend whose wife became pregnant "accidentally". She forgot to take the pill! I wouldn't even suggest that her insistence on a child had anything at all to do with the accident. So, poster, take care that this doesn't happen "accidentally", OK?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (20 December 2011): I'm sorry to sound harsh, but from your post you sound a bit self-centered about this whole thing. You are basically focused on getting what YOU want. YOU want the two of you to be married. YOU want the two of you to have a child now, because YOU warmed up to the idea of both of you becoming a family. And YOU want all this to happen, like, really soon. Yes I do fully understand that you have your reasons for wanting that, I'm not saying that you shouldn't want what you want. But the point is did you ever ask him what HE wants? And I mean in a totally non pressuring way. instead it sounds like you assume he should be on board with what you want. But actually it sounds like he isn't. Maybe he doesn't actually want to have kids or to get married. Some men truly dont' want to ever get married or have kids (and only do it because they get pressured and become unhappy for the rest of their lives.) Maybe he wants things to stay right as they are now and never change. Or maybe he wants things to stay as they are now for at least another 5-10 years because he has other things he wants to do with his life or because he has a lot of discomfort about the concept of marriage and starting a family. Or maybe he has doubts about you. He has a right to feel any of this and not just say "OK" to what you want when it involves him dedicating the rest of his life. It's his life too, not just yours.I think you have to have some long talks with him about what he truly, really wants for his life and whether or not it includes getting married to you and having kids in the near future. Realize that the truth may be that no he doesn't actually want that but will do it if he "has" to. And if so is this what YOU would want?when you talk with him again about this, it has to be different from how you've talked about it all the millions of times up until now. He has to be brutally honest with you, and not just say what he thinks will land him in less trouble or make you less upset. So you have to make it OK for him to be brutally honest and not make things uncomfortable for him if you hear things you don't want to hear.sorry this advice is not about how to get him to do what you want. Because that's not a good way to approach relationships of any kind especially when it comes to life-altering decisions like marriage and starting a family and basically signing away the rest of your life to that. Instead I see that there's a big disconnect between you two, and that should be explored to see where you both stand on this issue. If he is to marry you and have kids with you, he has to feel 100% sure that it is what he wants and not just be doing it because it's what you want and he's merely compromising, that would be an awful marriage. But right now he obviously doesn't want the same thing as you. Maybe he might change his mind if his fears are eased, and to do that you have to know what his fears are without judging him. Even then, he still may not change his mind and then you will have to make a decision about what you will do? Will you want to pressure him into marriage and kids against his will? Or will you want to change your attitude about your relationship and maybe come to terms with accepting not getting married and having kids anytime soon and find other ways to be happy with your life? Or will you want to move on to find a new partner who will want what you want?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 December 2011): IW I think counselling might not be the worst idea for you but for you to do it for you and not him or because he suggested it.
As far as this issue goes then I think he's just being flaky to be honest. The way you describe it he just doesn't want to think of kids right now. They're not high on his list of priorities.
Was he happy when he found out you were pregnant that time? What was his reaction?
I honestly think he's just trying to fob you off, it just seems he doesn't want kids now and doesn't know when he will because he won't commit to having one, even in the future. It sounds like he's happy with the way things are right now and doesn't want things to change. Now he's either just very lazy or he really just hasn't got the same need to have a child that you do.
I think you should go get some counselling and I think you need to let this issue drop for a little while and for the time being at least, the next month or two try not to get worked up about this. Let things get back to normal a bit, settle and see how this goes. This may be a sign of a bigger commitment issue he has, a problem with not wanting to settle down right now at the moment his refusal is eating you up but you really can't do anything to change his mind for now. So focus on having a nice xmas, and start the new year focused on something else. You both need a break from this problem because neither of you seem willing to budge, so you need to gather your thoughts, come to terms with your loss through some counselling and see what happens in the next few months. You may feel different, he may change his mind with no pressure or you may see things in him you didn't before and may well question if being with a guy who doesn't share the same view of the future as you is actually workable.
I do think you should check out fertility options for the future though. You may have a ticking clock medically but there are is now so much really good fertility treatments out there that you may well have time still. You certainly have the money to be able to afford those so they're worth checking out.
Look when I say drop this I mean leave him alone for a while about it. That doesn't mean you can't continue to explore all the medical, financial and other possibilities on your own.
Good luck IW.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (19 December 2011): To me he isnt making excuses, hes simply not ready.
I know its really hard when you have in your mind what you want, but he is saying "back off darling, i need time to do my thing before we have children".
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female
reader, IW +, writes (19 December 2011):
IW is verified as being by the original poster of the question odd: "Basically, in his mind, getting married means that he no longer gets to be *who he is*, and instead becomes a tool to provide *you* with what *you* want, valued only for his utility, not for himself. What have you done to convince him otherwise?" What have I done? Well, let me tell you what I have done: I've just moved right across the freaking country (and left all friends and family behind) because he wanted me to! He said that he wanted to come and live right in this town, and so he asked me if I would , please, move here with him. He said that we both could get jobs here and start our fture here (turns out it wasn't so good for my line of work). So I moved. Because I love him. And because he wanted to. I'm not forcing him to do anything, mind you. I just want to get myself an answer out of him, but he gives one and then changes his mind again and again. So don't you tell me I don't do things for him! When you have no idea.And hobby? Yes, I guess that what it is. But it eats money for breakfast, lunch and dinner, (we're talking over 50 000 euros) so I think I have the right to have a say in how much he spends on it. Just saying.And I've never seen him as a sperm donor. If I didn't love him and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him (at least up until we got this argument) I wouldn't even consider kids with him (ticking clock or not).
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male
reader, Odds  +, writes (19 December 2011):
 "later I will work full time, later when you might get a fulltime job too, later when I might have bought a house, later I will stop fiddling with my cars and computers and spend time with you, later when we have kids and really need to get married we will (about engagment)" etc."
This. This right here is the problem. His understanding of getting engaged and having a child includes giving up his hobbies, spending all his money, and doing exactly what *you* tell him to do. Why would he sign on for that?
Basically, in his mind, getting married means that he no longer gets to be *who he is*, and instead becomes a tool to provide *you* with what *you* want, valued only for his utility, not for himself. What have you done to convince him otherwise?
You refer to fixing old cars derisively, as if there were something with his hobby, or as if it were some childish thing he ought to give up. Whether you told him so, or he concluded it on his own, the problem is that he doesn't see a single benefit in getting married and having kids.
To further convince him that acting now is not in his best interests, your completely legitimate concern about your fertility is probably changing the way you act and speak about pregnancy - and he probably (also legitimately) believes that he is being treated as a necessary prop for the pregnancy, rather than as a 50% partner in it - in other words, by focusing so much on pregnancy instead of the potential child, you are making him feel less like a father-to-be, and more like a sperm donor.
On the plus side, that means you can fix it. Why should he give up fixing cars? Why should he give up computers? Compromise! What can you do to convince him that things will work out financially, without him having to give up *his* life to fulfill *your* ambitions? Can you think of some way to make the money work out? Can you bring yourself to enjoy and support his hobbies, then promise him that you will never force him to give them up? Can you think of any way at all in which he will benefit from getting married? Can you convince him that you believe he will make a great father, and that you want him not just to provide, but to be the father of both of your children?
Make him a part of the deal. Make it mutually beneficial, rather than focusing on what you want, or one what you think he owes you. And you have to really mean it - lying about it would be simply evil, so the first step is to change your own views. Good luck.
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female
reader, IW +, writes (19 December 2011):
IW is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks everybody for your answers! It has given me a lot to think about.
Firstly: Yes, it's some kind of maternity leave not money for lower income families that I'm talking of.
Secondly: Sadly I have a clock ticking, even if I took it more panicy than maybe I should. It was just such a blow after the MC to get told that I would be one of the few with concieving troubles and rapid clicking clocks. Just a huge shock... And I know it's not the right reason to start trying for kids but if I don't do it soon I might not get any at all...
Thirdly: I'm actually finished and could start working if there were any jobs. I've worked in a shop last year but only part time because that was all I could get. Then I got adviced at job counselling to study another year to make me more "desireable" on the jobmarket, and that's what I'm doing. Again, I know it's a bad decision to get a kid when you don't have job, but I'm not really asking for a NOW! I'm asking for a "6 months/12 months/18 months etc" and my bf isn't giving me that. Or well he has already said 6 months. and then 6 more months, and then another 6 months, but that was almost 18 months ago. So yes, it's making me quite frustrated! Especially when he seemed to be more annoyed or worried when I accidently got pregnant than he seemed happy. And I'm really tired of him changing his goals and time frames all the time. (diffrent goals like change of jobs, where to live, suddenly buying new cars etc)
Fourthly: It sadens me that he is out fixing cars to late at night and then tells me that I should start my life and get a move on, so to speak, when I don't see him sorting out his life or "getting a move on". If it only was the financial aspect that worried him (kid or no kid) at least he knows he can get a job, but isn't even sugesting that, nor I for that matter, cause he thinks it's "a good investment to fix these up now" even if he isn't selling them or anything... It jsut feels like he is playing around, but he gets very upset whenever I suggest anything of the sort. "This is like a job, I get money out of it because I'm not paying anyone to fix them up for me" and that we don't even need the cars fixed at the moment isn't even relevant to him.
Fiftly: No crowns, just some 500 000 euros. And it's not like we would never work in all our lives again. My thoughts were just that we didn't NEED the biggest maternity leave there is to get by, nor to work full time both of us. My line of work is really bad right now but they say there will be better times in 5 years because of retirement and new jobs etc. It's not like I wouldn't work at all, ever again.
And finally: Just as I wrote in the q-post, the problem isn't really wether or not we should have kids now, it's that I suddenly feel that maybe he doesn't care what I want, he just wants things to be done his way. (And maybe I'm the same, but we really don't want the same thing) I don't know. He actually suggest counselling, but only for me (because he thought I was overreacting over the MC). So maybe counselling could be a way to go.
Thanks everybody for you input!
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female
reader, bluecow  +, writes (19 December 2011):
 ahh cerebrus, I didnt read it that way. If thats the case then I apologise, it just came across to me that you got more of a handout if you had a lower income, and therefore were intending not to work so that you had more money from the state.
Apologies.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 December 2011): I think his actions should give you all the answers you need. He wants to wait until you both have full time jobs to get serious...engaged, marriage, kids...yet he isn't pursuing a full time job. You are putting the cart WAY before the horse and pushing your time line on him. He has a different timeline and isn't budging. Why? Because he doesn't want those things right now or even a few years from now. You can't make him or force him..nor should you want to because nothing good will come of it. After 3 years he still has not progressed your relationship and still doesn't plan on progressing it. The answer isn't getting him to change but making a decision whether he fits your life goals or not.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 December 2011): Actually bluecow she's talking about a kind of maternity leave, not going on benefits.
OP I think he's right when he says the time isn't right yet. You're still studying and working weekends, when are you going to have time for a child? Are you going to give up your studies and give up work?
Also are you going to have a child before you buy a house or after? Because you may have the money now but kids are very expensive and you may find you don't have that cash to throw at a house after having a kid.
Are you planning on working full time after having a baby or are you going to be a stay at home mom? Because if you plan to work afterwards then you're going to want to have some kind of work experience in the thing you are studying for after your studies because I think you'll find most professions you have to start from the bottom and work your way up regardless of your qualifications.
You see he sounds fine with the way things are, the freedom of working casually and spending time on the things he enjoys doing. What you're proposing is having a kid, you staying at home with no financial security but to spend your rainy day money on having this child. He then has to take full time work and lose a lot of his freedom because you decided you wanted one now without setting up the conditions to make it easier for you. If I'm honest I think you want this child out of panic, you suffered a major trauma as regards your miscarriage and you "think" you may have to have a child quickly or it may not be medically possible.
As far what your doctor said, you taking it to mean that does not mean that's what it actually meant. So go back to your doctor and properly discuss how difficult it may be for you, don't use this an excuse to pressure your boyfriend when it may not even be the case.
I would love to hear his side to be honest because I'm of the opinion that having a baby, a life long commitment is worth the time and effort to prepare properly for. Not just out of panic or done quickly because you want to.
In my mind I think you need to find out the certainties and start planning. get a medical opinion first, find out all your options. Then once you know the deal there you can start to look at the practicalities you discussed with your boyfriend because the only difference between you and he is that he has conditions he wants met first and you just want one now. Well you can't emotionally blackmail him into it, you can try but you'll just push him away. You need to come an agreement OP, it sounds like he does want kids with you but he doesn't just want to jump blindly in to having them without you both being a bit more secure.
You don't even know if you have a ticking clock on this, if you go to the doctor and they say you do, then you can return to him and talk again. But you have to satisfy some of his needs OP. If my girlfriend came to me and asked me to have a kid right now while I'm in college still I would say no because I need to get out and begin my career first. I don't care how broody she gets either there is no hurry and until you can prove it medically then there's no hurry for you either.
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female
reader, bluecow +, writes (19 December 2011):
I am in agreement with cindy here... on almost all. I dont believe both parents need to have full time jobs, however at least ONE must, and the other needs to be willing to work full time if needed. Children were traditionally brought up in families with one parent at home and the other at work... however economically in todays societies this is often impossible. Children cost a HUGE amount to raise.
I also find your comment about the money you recieve from the state sticks in my throat a little. You would rather not work so much because you will recieve more of a hand out. Thats not how its supposed to work. That handout is supposed to help people of lower incomes support their families, not help those who CHOOSE not to work.
My gut feeling here is that you could talk to him about definate time frames...
e.g. you will work full time when you finish your studies and have a career.
He will find a full time position when you finish your studies.
THEN you can arrange a marriage before having children.
IF he isnt willing to commit to any of the above... personally I dont think he ever will.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (19 December 2011):
 I am scratching my head here. I am of two minds. On one hand, call me a wet blanket, call me unadventurous, but I believe that both future parents MUST have steady/full time jobs before tryng for a baby. So what your bf says makes perfect sense to me . Even more after what you explained about the Swedish rules. Ok, I live in bare-assed, nearly -gone-bust Italy and you live in rich, socially and financially stable Sweden, but still. It's good that you have money, but , unless we are really talking about millions and millions of euro ( or do you have crowns ? ) how can you trust that you'll be able to live indefinitely on the interests of your capital, how can you start planning a future if this future has not got the backbone of a good job, of a career in fact ? Too risky - too shaky foundations.
On the other hand, true, if your bf really feels this way, why doesn't he look for full time employment . Maybe he is afraid of responsibility , financial and psychological,- he's afraid he'd wind up as the sole breadwinner while you 'll still be a ( relatively ) carefree student. It's not really about money, it's the emotional weight : I am the full time worker, the " grown up "- and you are the one that can still "play " shaping her future.
How long will it take for you to finish your school and get a full time job ? Maybe you could/ should lead by example, - and of course once you have "started the real life" expect/ demand that he does the same ( otherwise the above said scenario would be reversed ! ). If it's not too far in the future, maybe the wait is worth to see for sure if he's going to put is money where is mouth is, and if his hesitations are just about practical stuff ( houser work and money ) or if he is just an eternal Peter Pan.
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male
reader, Danielepew +, writes (19 December 2011):
You're not irrational.
It seems to me that he doesn't want kids, however. I have the feeling that, if you want one kid, it won't be with him.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 December 2011): You are starting to resent the BF and really, he isn't even attempted to validate you. He minimalizes your concerns and even tells you Nope, not now. So you ask when and later is not sufficient.
I say get couples counselling ASAP. If he refuses then you know for sure BF is not being reasonable and is not about to be about the 'future'.
I personally think you are now a mismatch. You both no longer want the same things and don't even share the same goals or values of marriage and family.
I think you already know the answer to your question.
Seek counselling first though.
Hang in there.
*hugs*
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