A
male
age
41-50,
*upid Boy
writes:Why do women put so much importance on a guy's hobbies and possessions to decide if he is "mature" or not? To me, maturity should have nothing to do with anything as superficial as collecting action figures, reading comics, not owning a car for economic reasons, being a virgin, etc. Yet to women, these are massive signs of immaturity.I think REAL immaturity would be things like: throwing a tantrum when you don't get what you want, seeing yourself as the centre of the universe whose wants and needs are more important than those of others, getting insanely jealous or even violent when another guy talks to your gf, trying to control your gf's life, seeing material possessions as the path to happiness and living your life by shallow principles ("whoever dies with the most toys wins"), etc.But these also happen to be common traits of bad boys, millionaires and athletes, all of whom are seen as incredibly sexy. Girls may find them annoying over the long term but not enough to keep them from starting a relationship with the guy. As long as he's got money, a car, several relationships behind him, and no Star Trek or Lord of the Rings memorabilia anywhere in the house, he qualifies as "mature," no matter what his underlying personality may be. Sorry but that seems like an absurd definition of maturity.Just trying to understand why most women would sooner go out with a controlling asshole who has the ego of a two-year-old than with a genuinely mature guy who bikes to work. Can anyone explain why?
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female
reader, BettyBoup  +, writes (19 November 2010):
 Exactly, I agree with Tisha. There is pressure from sociaty to act and be a certain way whoever you are. Society, wherever you go in the world has set roles and stereotypes of how a person "should" behave, whether that is for their gender, there age, ethnicity, the amount of money they have, what job they do, where they live, their marital statue etc etc, the list goes on.
Everyone alive has an opinion on how a person "should" be and how they believe they "should" be. It's all preconcieved assumptions. You are making an assumption that the majority of women will not want to be your girlfriend because you believe the majority have an assumption about the hobbys and lifestyle choices you describe as an important part of your identity. You may be right. The majority of women may not be interested in you simply because of the assumptions they have about your interests.
I think it would be helpful for you to examine why this is a source of "resentment" for you, or such a big issue to you that you would want to recieve advice on this.
One question I have, why does it matter to you how the "majority" of women percieve your hobbys? If you love doing something, should it matter what other people think of that? It harms no one and brings you pleasure. If a potential girlfriend has a problem with it then SHE is obviously too immature to see beyond an activity someone does. Why would someone being that superficial concern you?
It is a sad fact, most people do live life through a veil of assumptions about themself, other people and life in general. There is no point getting worked up about it. You cannot change other people's perspectives only your own.
Anyway the majority of people do not have every single woman lusting after them, or every man. It doesn' work like that. People find partners who are similar to themselves or who they connect with and understand. So by concerning yourself with imagined women who may not understand you and your life choices, you are simply wasting energy. You would have more luck finding happiness and perhaps a woman who loves you and dungeons n dragons, if you spent that energy getting out there and meeting like minded people. Pardon my frence, but f*ck everyone else! It's your life! Live it, stop worrying about what other people think. Don't let society or your perception of society dictate how you feel about yourself or how you live your life.
Live long and prosper XD
A
female
reader, Tisha-1  +, writes (17 November 2010):
 Women face double standards and potentially unattainable standards. Ask any woman who weighs more than society has decided is acceptable. Or one who has decided not to have children. Or one who doesn't like to wear makeup. Ask a woman who has had a double mastectomy and can't have immediate reconstruction of her breasts how living in a boob-obsessed society feels. Ask a woman who is undergoing chemo and thus is bald--if you think men face problems being bald, try being a bald woman.
If you are outside the norm, society can be ruthless, on both men and women.
Dating tip: resentment is not sexy. Get practical. If you are being overlooked by all women all the time, um, there's a chance it's not them. It might be you. Just saying.
Good luck.
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A
male
reader, Cupid Boy +, writes (17 November 2010):
Cupid Boy is verified as being by the original poster of the question Thanks for taking the time to reply to this.
A couple of you said collecting action figures and reading comics were solitary activities that seem anti-social. Well, collecting plants, fine cigars or antiques could be solitary too, but those just don't have the same stigma. And playing Dungeons & Dragons with friends would actually be highly social... yet it would still be virtual suicide to talk about that on a date.
For some strange reason, girls seem to find guys addicted to drugs way more appealing than guys addicted to Harry Potter. It's a huge double standard that women will never have to face. A woman can have stuffed animals in her bed until old age and it's normal. She'll never be considered immature for living with parents into adulthood, nor lose her husband's respect if she earns less money than him. Sorry for coming across as a bit "resentful". But if you lived in some alternate universe where girls were arbitrarily deemed "undateable" unless they bought a machine costing thousands of dollars, you'd probably complain too. :P But thanks, I'll try to keep in mind that some girls do care a bit less about superficial, material things, even if they're the minority.
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A
female
reader, Natalie:) +, writes (15 November 2010):
 To me maturity really is shaped around how much balance between seriousness and fun there would be in a relationship, a guys ability to have a deeper understanding and that deeper connection.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2010): Women have twisted the definition of male maturity around to basically mean whatever they want out of a guy. Maturity usually has little to do with it.
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (15 November 2010):
I asked a girl this once before because she dumped a friend of mine, and I wanted to know why, since he seemed like a good guy.
She said "If a hobby takes more of man's time up than I do, then he's not mature enough for a relationship"
I suppose that's a pretty fair idea.
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A
female
reader, Nime +, writes (15 November 2010):
 Tisha-1, I just have to say AWESOME response. It's actually the best response I've seen on this site for any question, period. If I could rate it 10 stars I would. If I'd seen this before I posted I wouldn't have even bothered. Cupid Boy, look no further, Tisha-1's advice is the best you're going to get.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (15 November 2010):
So you are comparing your dating prospects against millionaires and athletes? Hm. Wouldn't it make more sense to size yourself up against your real dating competition, which is other guys your age in your town or city?
The thing you seem to be missing in this analysis of all women everywhere is that you don't need to impress all women everywhere. You just need to locate a couple who have similar interests.
Right, let's assume that your dating pool is women in their mid 20s to 40, based on your age range. They are either fresh out of school or working. Many have had past relationships and may have children. They are getting older and may want children.
So, let's examine your dating resume vs. a typical guy your age who has had previous relationships and a job as well, as well as a car and let's say he likes sports and maybe has a hobby like oh, say golf. Let's assume equal levels of personal maturity.
Your potential date is 29 and is busy in her career, but is looking for the guy who will be her 'forever' love.
So with you, she gets a genunine guy who likes collecting action figures and reading comic books--okay, well, these are commonly associated with younger men, but okay, she decides to give you a chance, and agrees to go out on a date with you. So you have no car, how do you manage the date? Where do you go to entertain her and yourself?
Women have some expectations, rightly or wrongly, of courtship. If we are asked out for a first date, we actually expect the guy to choose something fun/interesting/mutually enjoyable and we expect him to treat us.
Your competition, the guy with a past but a car, has an advantage on you because he can drive himself and his date wherever he wants to go. You are either taking a cab or riding the bus, walking or maybe renting a car? I applaud your fiscal responsibility, but how are you managing the dating transportation? Maybe that's a major liability for the woman. Maybe she doesn't want to feel that she has to drive all the time? I don't know, I don't know what kind of women you have asked out.
Your hobbies are fine, really they are, but they are very solitary things, and honestly, most women aren't into collecting action figures or reading comics. So what social activities do you engage in, where you go somewhere and see other people, that you can bring a date? Think that one through a bit.
Some of the immaturity traits you've identified, such as being controling jerks, may not emerge until after she has begun to date a guy. Jerks can be very good at hiding their jerkiness until they get laid.
But you've cast yourself as the only good guy in this story. There are lots of good guys out there with history and previous relationships. Just because a relationship doesn't work out doesn't make them a jerk or a creep, it just means they were not compatible with that woman.
Rather than seethe with resentment at being overlooked by women who seem to be going for the superficial attributes, recognize that your own persona and choices are part of what a woman assesses in deciding to date a guy. Much like men assess a woman as to her date-ability on individual prefences (age, physical attributes, interests), so do women assess men.
You have to boost your resume in order to be date-able. Your competition is blowing you away because you seem to offer less.
I'm not saying, run out a buy a car, run out and pretend to be something you are not, or start activities you don't care for, just to attract women.
I'm am saying that your attitude may be destroying your chances before you even start. You sound resentful, defensive and judgemental. None of those are sexy or desirable to most women.
What are your positive attributes? How do you convey those and how are you presenting yourself to women? If you want to find dates, you have to consider the wish-lists of your potental dating partners. Rather than resent that many women do want material comfort, figure out how you can best leverage what you already have. Repackage it, and present it as a positive.
"Eco-aware, quirky, friendly fun-loving guy seeks like-minded, unique woman with a fresh and modern approach to life! If you are concerned about your carbon footprint and fitness, if you like to nurture your inner child, maybe we should meet up and see what we can create!" Like that. Change up your approach and your attitude.
Good luck in the wilds of datingland.
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A
female
reader, Nime +, writes (15 November 2010):
I think you might be doing exactly what you're censuring these women for doing: going after the 'bad' girls!
I myself deliberately look for one thing in guys, and it might sound a bit weird. I look for ones with 'mother' instinct. ;) My current boyfriend is so gentle, nurturing and altruistic (both his parents are pediatricians) I often tell him he was born to be a mother. I don't care what a guy's hobbies or possessions are; as long as he's got 'mother' instinct yet can still say 'no' to unreasonable demands, I think he's mature and a keeper.
I think girls who go after the 'bad boys' are still stuck in the stone age; maybe they are not as evolved or something. They see (mistake) bad-boyness as 'masculinity' and an ability to protect, but (a) there's no correlation and (b) these days unless you live in Kenya there's not much anyone needs protecting from except debt. Which is why in the 21st century I want a mother-boyfriend for my protector: someone who's both generous and responsible with money and has strong family instinct, yet doesn't allow himself to be walked all over.
Anyway, I know I've derailed from the topic quite a bit here, but I wanted you to know that many of us women make thoughtful, careful decisions when it comes to choosing our men. We aren't all attracted to just the bad boys. I know I have NEVER been impressed by them.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2010): Depends on the woman's level of maturity.
A teenage girl might say a mature boy is one who is cute, tells her she's pretty at the right moment, carries her books.
A superficial woman might think a guy is mature if he has a good job, takes good care of his body, makes his car payments on time on his fabulous sports car, always splurges on her.
An educated brainy woman might think a man is mature if he himself is very educated, he reads alot of classics, he knows about current affairs, he can hold his own in intellectual conversations.
It really depends. People can be very mature in some ways and very immature in other ways.
I personally think maturity is something that can only be measured with time. The way a person handles situations, their level of commitment to things, and what they place importance on, to me shows their maturity. A person who generally can stay calm and be rational, not blow off the handle, in the face of any situation to me is mature. A person who is true to what they believe and has solid values and stays true to them no matter what, to me is mature. A person who places importance on things of ACTUAL importance in life (family, friends, loved ones, happiness) to me is mature.
But like I said everybody is different.
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A
female
reader, BettyBoup +, writes (15 November 2010):
I don't know where you've gotten your ideas of what most women want in a man, but let me assure you, as a woman, I believe you've got it wrong. The women who look for a guy who "has lots of toys", has cars, money, expensive possessions etc, have the same values as that guy. In other words, a woman who looks for a shallow materialistic man, is usually because she is also shallow and values materialistic things over anything else.
NOT all women want this, just as not all men want a girlfriend who speands all her money on clothes, shoes, make up and cares only for her appearance and social status.
I'm sorry but I think you have a set idea of women that is very unfair. You can't judge all women as being a certain way because you have met some women who are this way. There are billions of people on this planet and there are sooo many different personalities and values out there. You cannot assume all women are the same.
Let me use myself as an example. What I look for in a man above anything else, is someone I can have fun with, someone who treats me well, with respect, who is affectionate and loving and who shares my values. If he likes lord of the rings or sci fi and doesn't own a car, then all the better, because so do I! I don't value money and having nice things above the personality of the guy and I'm pretty sure I'm not a minority!
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A
female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (15 November 2010):
 As Aunt Honesty said, you have a warped opinion of women and have clearly just met a few bad ones!
I for one have never dated a "bad boy" and am not interested in that kind of guy. And of my 6 other close female friends, not one of us is dating a 'bad boy'. In fact, none of us have ever dated a bad boy or at least been on more than a couple of dates with one then decided he was a jerk!
Take my boyfriend for example - he loves sci-fi, loves lord of the rings, is a bit of a gamer, technology addict...you get the picture! He is a bit of a geek, and you could deem the games as immature but I think everyone has a child in them somewhere that never goes away and the games are just his way of expressing it. I would never think of him as immature just because he plays games on his computer!
I think a lot of those characteristics you describe in your first paragraph are indeed a bit of a turn-off for women, but not because we think they are 'immature'. Comics and action figures to me suggest a man that lacks social skills and does not have a huge amount of interaction with people, and he prefers to be alone with his comics or action figures as opposed to being a sociable person. Maybe this is a stereotype for me, but I am friends with many guys and have known many men that love comics & action figures, and are really quite anti-social. As a woman, I want a guy who can spend time with my friends and have plenty to say, who is a natural around people and is someone you can have fluent, interesting conversations with. I would also think if he liked comics & actions figures that we would not have anything in common - if these are his interests then that is fine, but it is not something I share a love of therefore I would question if we would get on.
As for not owning a car - if you had good reason not to, then fair enough. I dont own a car because I cant afford one and public transport is good where I live, therefore I would not judge anyone else who did not drive as I would presume they have their own good reasons not to.
Virginity - again this is personal choice rather than being immature. I would actually think a man who is still a virgin after 30 is very mature, because he has the sense to wait for the right girl and not sleep around for the sake of it.
Probably the only thing that would really worry me for a man would be if he still lived with his parents after the age of 25. That to me signals he is not mature, and is dependent on his family to look after him, therefore he is not independent and self-sufficient. That is very attractive to women - a man who is independent, can look after himself which therefore signals to us girls that he can look after us too.
My ideal man is someone who is kind, funny, caring, intelligent, sociable, successful, interesting, humble, respectful, and an old fashioned gentleman. I am a very independent girl therefore could not last a day with a controlling man, I can spot them a mile off and steer well clear! Money is not hugely important - however I have my own career and earn a decent amount of money, which will only increase over the next few years. Therefore I want a man who is equally, if not more successful than me as I think it is important to be ambitious and driven in your career - I could never date a guy who only works just because he has to and has not got any abition to succeed in his chosen career.
Dont tarnish all women with the same brush - massive generalisations like this will only make you bitter and prevent you from meeting a genuinely nice woman. You will put off nice, normal women just by your general negativity towards women. So lose the attitude and stop with the "most women" mentality, and you never know you might just meet one of the many women that want a nice guy, not a bad boy!
I hope this helps and good luck!
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A
female
reader, aunt honesty  +, writes (15 November 2010):
 Am sorry but you are very quick here to judge what women want in a man, ok so its obvious you have met women who want these things in a guy but that doesnt mean that we all want that and you shouldnt be so quick to judge on that either.
Every man has a different type of woman that they are attracted to im guessing you are going for the wrong time when this is your opinion on what women want, because let me tell you, you have it so so wrong.
Most women wants a guy who cares for them, loves them, respects them, takes them out, spends quality time with them, is affectionate to them. So dont be so quick to judge the next woman you meet.
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