A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I feel so silly for even asking this on the Internet, but I just need to get some opinions. First of all, I'm 18, and this is my first girlfriend. She is 15. We've been dating for 10 months now. In the 2nd month of dating, we broke up for 2 days, because our parents hated each other. We broke up on a Saturday. That Sunday, she received oral sex from one of her friends. She told me was so scared, told him no, and that he bit her breasts so hard that she bled. The next day, Monday, we got back together. The Sunday after that, this same guy took her to an empty baseball parking lot, pulled her close, and started to take off her shirt, and bra. She was exposed, and told her no. Same thing happened the next Sunday, to which she got her Dad involved, and we haven't heard from him since.I want to know, did she cheat? Or was she raped? I confronted her, and she cried her little heart out. Everytime I had something to say to her, her bottom lip quivered awaiting an answer. I don't know what to believe. She says because she said no, in the truck, that he stopped. That if she had been more forceful that first Sunday, none of this would have happened. (The reason it only happened Sunday, was because she ditches Sunday school). She told her Grandpa she was "sexually pressured", and her Grandma (she lives with her Grandma and Grandpa) doesn't believe her. Her Grandma's this bitter woman he torments her. Her Grandma forced them to date, though my girlfriend doesn't consider it dating, cause she didn't want to.As you can tell, I'm very confused, and keep bouncing between "did she cheat", or "was she raped". I guess you can dismiss the first Sunday, because we werent a couple. But two sundays in a row? And it took her this long to tell me? I need some advice, I need another viewpoint of opinion.
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, rcn +, writes (4 August 2009):
 This guy posted for a reason, not for you to develop his post into an argumentative playground.
FOR THE OP: A lot of text, but informative. We've ready, back and forth different opinions from cheating to being an assault victim. It's simple to take either direction when the incident with your girlfriend could have as well.
Reading these text messages show a pattern, one of which isn't your fault, nor is it really hers. I don't doubt she's been through a lot growing up. She's a victim of a traumatic past. The changes in the text and how the incident had been explained shows signs of living in your own hell. She's obsessed and dependent as well as detached and withdrawn. Wanting to be with you, yet thinking your better off without her. Knows you love her, but doubts she's capable of being loved. She's trapped, mentally bouncing between real and imagined fear.
Fear of being alone was a big one I caught. "I don't think he loves me, well this guy says he does." Someone to fall back on. But at the same time, she'll leave who does love her, to avoid being abandoned. Our minds know how much we can handle before getting hurt. In her mind, triggers "time to bail."
What you can do, won't cure but help, is to continue validating her importance to you. She needs to know you won't bail on her. It may be taking an extra step, but validate that. Tell her when you say you love her that you won't leave her. Do it over and over and over gain, and her mind will start to shift into knowing what you're saying is true. It'll be difficult at times, but just keep reiterating it, and you'll see a positive result.
A
female
reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (4 August 2009):
 I have NEVER once called her a whore, Never once tried accusing her of anything but being in an unhealthy environment, and yes, she may have made some wrong decisions. She's only a child!! noonespecial had it right, No means NO, whether it happened or not, that young man should have recognized her uncomfortability in that situation. And actually, where are you getting your tallys of people calling that child a whore? I do believe whores have a reputation of having sexual contact with many guys, getting paid for it, and not complaining. This child is reaching out for help, who wouldn't when people like you accuse her if accusations such as being a whore. She had a lapse in judgement. Children do that, and should be forgiven. But when adults do it, it's seen more as unacceptable. And after a couple times of assuming I havent read all the information, just to inform you I have. I guess I see it as something necessary to find out and relate to people before proceeding to help. q1605, quit deflecting, I never directed being bias straightly towards you, although I would now include you in such a category. I really think your insecure and push many things off as someone else's problem. If you need any help, send me a message, Im not bias and would love to assist you. Otherwise, take care, I think you intentions towards this post are directed else where, rather than the ground point of this.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (4 August 2009):
 I think the subject has been sufficiently covered and we are now getting to a debate that probably won't help the poster much. I've asked that this thread be closed. Poster, please ask a new question if you feel you need any more advice or suggestions from the aunts and uncles here. I wish you and your girlfriend well and hope that she finds the path to getting help.
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A
female
reader, noonespecial2  +, writes (4 August 2009):
As far as I'm concerned, no means no, and if anybody thinks her no means yes then that's their problem.
If she said no, and he ignored that, then it is rape.
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A
female
reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (4 August 2009):
Great now that we've got the masculinist pessimist out of here, maybe some issues can be resolved. I have alot of feeling towards this site, and care about bettering people in need. So it hurts me when the things I try and do get thrown back in my face. Anyway, Felisha is not 'over and out' Im still in the game, ninth inning and we're down or not. I ride things out and dont quit when it seems as if it might just get a little tough. I think something we all need to realize, on this site and our 'society' needs to realize that chauvenism is bias and needs throwm out. There should not be defined feminist nor masculinist. But rather, culturalist, that are in it for the better of mankind as a whole. And when dealing with issues, diggin deeper in the subject using such things as sybolism may be of assistance.
Blessing with all you may do.
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A
male
reader, rcn +, writes (4 August 2009):
q1605, I'm not someone who's deflecting. As far as being qualified, my pretty pieces of paper hanging on my wall say I am. I'm a certified behavior analyst, with expertise in trauma related affect, also completing my certificate as a master neurolinguistics programmer.
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A
female
reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (4 August 2009):
Ok, where to start? Ah ha, q1605 just what exactly do you think of me, and what is there to talk about little old me, have you not forgotten our main purpose on this site? I do beleieve the intentions were for any volunteers to pull together in a beneficiary manor to better troubled people...or, what it to just make sure you get the last word in edgewise to make you look better?
Op, after reading your last post, I belive this young girl has many issues within her, but I am by NO means pointing a finger at her. I really belive all she needs is a new environment. Many times when out in harmul situations, children and teens usually have a tendency to lie to get any kind of attention they may obtain during their attempts in reaching out. Now I apologize for the divided attention, this is after all about focusing on the situation at hand to assist you, that's why you came here and I dont want you to shy away. So, if you wish to still seek for our assistance, posting further questions or any new information will be most appreciated and I would love to help.
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A
male
reader, rcn +, writes (4 August 2009):
Yes, it is recommended when someone is raped or cheat, the victim is not the only one who seeks counseling. I've counseled a lot of people, what I've found is candy coating doesn't do anyone any good. I research and work with people who generally have major abnormal behavior disorders, the affect of those assaulted, child abuse, domestic violence victims, etc. In conclusion, my view is that your assumptions are unqualified, therefore this conversation wouldn't be beneficial to either of us.
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A
male
reader, GrimmReality +, writes (4 August 2009):
 Kid, this girl is so full of shit her teeth are floating.
BUT: Now you have evidence(that will be admissable in a court of Law) about her saying that she waited around for this guy to look up a law on a computer? In light of that, it would be very hard for anyone to get a rape conviction in this case...nearly IMPOSSIBLE...as impossible as her whole story is.
So keep a copy of that whole text and email...you never know if you or someone else may get accused of something. I certainly would not trust anything she says.
I read that whole text twice....she is not someone you need to be around...RUN FROM THIS!
Let her be sonmeone elses problem. Cut all contact off with her NOW!
Well at least you got a good discussion started here with the Agony Aunts, which I strayed out of for once because I knew how this was gonna pan out, and I was right.
so my final advice to you is to stay away from this whole wierdo family. For all you know, you will be blamed for getting her pregnant by breathing on her!
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (4 August 2009):
I go back to the original question by the poster. I try to read it remembering that this girl was just barely 15, more likely 14 (he'd been dating her for 10 months, this incident happened in month 2) so she was just barely 15. That's fifteen. Not too many Christmases, or birthdays, and even fewer first days at school.
She reports that she feels "sexually pressured" to her grandmother. She's 14 or 15. She should be given help by her family. She gets none. She's been coerced into oral sex (that's what I get out of the report) and actually bitten on the breast when she says 'no.'
I read that the next two times the guy takes off her shirt and she tells him 'no.' Then she gets her Dad involved.
This is a young girl who is scared, unhappy, who has been pressured into sexual contact she didn't ask for. Going for a ride with the guy doesn't give him carte blanche to screw around with her. Blaming the victim is sooooo much easier than dealing with the reality that she has been assaulted. Fear, pressure, confusion. She's not thinking like a 35 year old man. She's barely 15, IF she's 15. She may just be 14.
The suspicion that the OP may have been cheated on PALES INTO INSIGNIFICANCE at the high probability that she has been sexually assaulted. To the OP's credit, he's been thinking with his head, and not his ego, and has stated his intention to support her as much as he can through this.
I have another link for our OP. This one is specific to Texas. There's help there for her and him if they feel able to ask.
http://www.taasa.org/teens/default.php
I hope our poster is getting himself an education on this issue. I sincerely hope that the aunts/uncles who post here take some time to become acquainted with the issues surrounding sexual assault and rape, so that the next time something like this comes up, they have some empathy for and understanding of what a sexual assault victim experiences.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question[Well...she sent me an e-mail when I woke up this morning, as we had a txt discussion prior to bedtime, and she doesn't sleep well, so while I slept, she wrote. Here is the txt message discussion.]
Me: If you don't want to talk to me anymore, just tell me, don't say you have to go.
Girlfriend: I dont want to talk. I never wanted to leave you. I didnt leave you for him. I do want to die. I hate that i promised u i wouldnt kill myself, Ill txt u when i stop gagging
Me: Ugh, quit saying that. Your writing some bs, you dont go back to someone that takes your pants off, if you want me. If I got head from some chick, and did it again, and again, and said I really wanted you, what are you going to believe? Were you just horny? You said you liked it. Do you defend your Gma because you can use her as an excuse to have guys pushed on you? Is that how it works? All I got is a "sorry", and not even the full story
Girlfriend: Your never going to believe the truth. Would u rather me lie to you? because you just happened to forget it. You still owe me the story, as well as making up for it.
Girlfriend: And no. Ill admit he turned me on the first time. It did sound fun the second time but i still said no and i still didnt want it
Me: Your story keeps changing...duh it sounded fun, I was gone to you, even though you were cheerful all day at school to me.
Girlfriend: How does it keep changing?
Me: Were you biding time? Did you settle with me cause he left and you had nobody else? Please tell me :(
Girlfriend: I left him, I could have other people. I could have stephen or emit or sean, I didnt want him. I wanted u.
Me: Youve got some serious explaining to do. You and I have a date back in the garage, just the two of us, talking. I have to get to bed 9:30. I still love you, I just want to assault you. Night.
Girlfriend: It didnt sound fun cause u were gone. It felt good.
Girlfriend: U want to hurt me. Great way to show your love, Love u too, night.
[The message she wrote while she couldn't sleep]
i wasnt lieing when i said i couldnt remember. Everything is kind of foggy. Here is exactly what i do remember
The truth is i had known for awhile Josh liked me. I told him over and over again it would never work. That i loved you. That the only one i wanted was you. I didnt think he realy wanted me that badly anyways. I thought we were just friends. I knew he liked me but I thought we were just friends and thats all i ever intended to be. He was always telling me that you were a bad example. He knew i skipped classes to see you. He knew i loved you. He knew i was obsessed with you and that my parents didnt aprove. He would always b very nice. Opening doors and saying nice things and stuff like that. I thought he was just a nice guy. I didnt think id ever have a problem with him because he had tried to kiss me once and i had pushed him off and said that i was dating you. I told him it would b wrong of me to kiss him. I told him i loved you and that i couldnt leave you. He still insisted i leave you but i was convinced he was just worried about me. I was stupid. I didnt know...
I decided to brake up with you when mom and i started fighting and she started telling me how great a guy josh was. How horrible you were. I thought maby God was pushing me to date him. I thought that was best. I knew i still loved you and that i didnt want to leave but i also thought u didnt realy love me and that u would b happier without me. I wanted you to be happy and I wanted mom to be happy and I wanted josh to be happy. I knew everyone would be happy if i left you and dated him. ...or i guess i thought everyone would be happy. You didnt end up happy after all. Neither did I, but i hadnt realy thought of how this would effect me anyways. Why should I have, everyone else would have been happy. Thats what i thought.
So that saterday, or maby friday im not totally sure, i broke up with you. It was hard. I know you dont believe me. Your probly going to leave me. Im not going to talk about how upset all this made me unless u want to know. It doesnt matter really. You wont believe me.
That sunday i told him that me and you had broken up. I was crying and he took advantage of that. He held me close and said hed make everything better. He said we should go to the river for a swim. So i agreed and we went. We got to his house and he made some food and showed me his hunting stuff. I remember the first day very well. We talked in the couch about it all. How much i missed you and stuff. He kissed me, on the lips. I cried and he carried me off to his room after cuddling. He then started to make out with me. I thought you hated me and would never want me back. I no longer cared what happened to me. My body wasnt special anymore. You didnt want me, as far as i was concerned. I remember him taking off my shirt and me being scared. I told him, "dont you think this is wrong?". and he said "yes" and continued taking off my shirt. I was very confused but as i said earlier, i didnt care anymore. I just wanted to die. It didnt matte what happened to me. We kissed and he went down on me and i remember him looking at me like some kind of object. It made me angry and upset and scared but i dint say anything. I told him it was illigal and he said that he would look it up. He got on his computer emidiatly and told me all about the law. He did say it was illigal and that i couldnt tell anyone. Then he saw me crying and said he loved me. I was foolish. I believed him. He took me back home.
That monday I saw you in Sprotts room and i couldnt hold back the tears. You walked me into the hallway and i found out u still wanted me. I cried harder cause I had screwed up but u didnt know thats why i was still crying. I was selfish. I should have just told you right there. You would have left me, but that would have been more fair.
So this is where the cheating actually begins. The next sunday he invited me to starbucks as usual and i said ok cause it sounded like the perfect time to brake up with him. I was texting you and I had said i have to go. I was excited to be done with him and back with you without guilt...or as much anyways. However, I was also worried about his feelings. I still believed he loved me. I didnt want him to hate me. It seemed wrong to go that far with him and just say "hey im back with my ex, goodbye" so yeah...i was scared. It didnt matter anyways because he didnt take me to starbucks. He took me to the park. Where he kissed me and i said no and lets talk and stuff like that and he took off my shirt. I cried and he said to get over you and then he drove me back. He was angry. I dont remember much about this day but that is what i do remember.
The next sunday the same thing happened. It happened again because i wanted to talk to him. I wanted to try to accomplish something on my own. This time i pushed him off and I got out of his truck. He got angry for a second then laughed it off. Jerk... but anyways... he then hugged me and said he loved me again. or something like that anyways, i dont realy remember. Me and him walked to the swings....or maby this part happened last week. I just remember sitting on some swings and telling him we couldnt date. That it was over. Then him kissing me and me pushing him off. but i also remember another day when him and I were sitting under a tree in the same park and i told him that it was over. He said its hard to leave me because he loved me. I told him i had to leave. That what we were doing was wrong. Then we went back home. He seemed very sad and it made me feel bad. I didnt love him but i dont like hurting people.
At thanks giving i told jennanne most of the story. I didnt tell her i said no cause i didnt want him in trouble. Its my fault as much as it is his. She held me and said it would be ok. I felt sick. She asked if I loved you and i said yes.
Before thanksgiving i had just been avoiding him and getting in trouble with my mom. After my talk with jennanne, i also told maranda and alicia for there opinions, i decided i would tell you as soon as i knew you loved me and wouldnt leave me. I talked to john about it and he made me feel the same way. I should tell you when i knew you loved me. When i thought you might understand.
Im leaving out everything about how guilty i was and how much i cried and shit like that cause i dont want you to stay with me just to make me feel better. I just told you that right there in hopes that you wouldnt hurt as much knowing i did feel guilty and i didnt want it. I lied when i said i wanted it to feel good cause i wanted to hurt you. I dont want to hurt you anymore. I dont want you to leave. I hope you still love me and want to marry me. I didnt lie to you about what me and him did in any of our conversations before. I realy lie about anything i think. It all held some truth to it. I did love you. You dont believe that. I am sorry, you probly dont believe that. You havnt forgiven me, obviously. If you hate me dont tell me, just leave, please. I love you. If you hate me...if you want me dead...ill take it seriously.
If you dont believe any of this feel free to talk to john for back up cause i did tell him the story. I left out that i said no cause i didnt want him to go to jail. I left back that i still loved you cause that made me feel guiltier. Idk if i left out anything else.
I love you...i guess we will talk about this later. night
[Then a second E-mail after that]
please forgive me. i cant stop crying. i realy am sorry. if you need to know anything else just ask. i cant lose you. i love you. i never expected any of that to happen. I didnt leave you for him. it wasnt like that. i didnt leave you for him. i said i had to go cause it hurt to much to talk about. it didnt seem right to talk about it over txt. what i said wasnt bs. i wasnt just horny. i wasnt horny at all. i just didnt care anymore. i lost what i cared for. i cared for you. i didnt think id ever get you back. i wasnt horny. when i got you back he didnt listen. i dont even understand the question about my grandma. i havnt lied about her. i defend her cause i think she loves me. why else would she work so hard to make me happy. driving me places and cleaning and stuff. i tried to make up for it. i didnt want sex anymore. u said it would make you feel better. it didnt sound fun to me at all, i lied about that. i hid my emotions at school. ive gotten good at hiding my emotions. i would never stay with you cause i had no body else. if you want to assault me just do it. u can hit me and yell at me. beat me up. ill just say i fell at the river or something. i know i hurt you. hurt me back
[Then a third E-mail after that]
i want you to hurt me. i cant hurt me. i feel so bad. if you hurt me id b getting what i deserve. just do it. id rather you hit me than leave me. i know its pathetic but you already knew i was pathetic. i just want u to do whatever is necessary to get over all this. i want you to feel better. if hitting me and yelling at me makes you feel better then do it
[End of Emails]
We did do that date in my garage, I chose the garage because its dark, quiet, and away from everyone. I told her to tell me again, in person, everything. I cried in front of her, and she just hugged me and told me not to cry. I felt so retarded. She said she was sorry, and that she thought I didnt love her anymore when she broke up with me. She said the reason she let this 18 yr old do whatever he wanted, was because she only wanted her body for me, and since she couldnt have me, it didnt any longer. He could do whatever he wanted, she didnt care, its not like it mattered anymore. The next sunday, she tried to break up with him, but he said no, and started taking off her clothes. She said no and walked out to the swings, and he kissed her, saying I was a jerk and just wanted in her pants.
Sorry, thats alot to read.
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A
male
reader, rcn +, writes (4 August 2009):
I've noticed, levels of sexual assault, domestic violence, and all forms of relationship issues have no cultural boundaries, so the argument about who lives in Texas and who does not lacks relevance. In this situation there were disagreements regarding "was it rape?" or "was she cheating?" and whichever one took place, geographic location doesn't play into what's happened, nor does the trauma associate with either change. So as far as the answers, the only difference TX makes is adding a state to the same end conclusion which could happen anywhere else in the world.
For the poster, being able to move past this, forgive and work with her is a valuable characteristic. Forgiveness, although most of us need to do more, is key to establishing a plan to move forward. No matter how this happened, she's lucky to have you working through this with her. You're a good person for confronting these obstacles with her.
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A
female
reader, noonespecial2 +, writes (4 August 2009):
Troubledtoomuch
How you say, "It may be possible to believe part of a person's story while doubting another part of it" is based on your perceptions and experiences. Saying you "doubt that there is a person alive who has not totally believed one part of what they are being told, while doubting another part" and your comment "you would bet that nearly everyone has told the total truth about a part of a story and just a half truth about another part". It's not about the content of a person's story, it is about trusting who they are as a person. your comments are such a useless generalization. By bringing in this generalization, seems to me your way of bringing in a third party to support your opinion because your opinion by itself is weak. Do you know everyone alive? You cannot speak for the whole world.
This is clearly your lack of trust for people and their ability to be honest.
It's like this - if you trust someone, no matter how suspicious the circumstances are, you believe them because you trust them and their word.
You may want to watch out here, if this girl is being abused and she is reaching our for help, is not being believed, is being made to feel guilty, is being blamed and her abuse is being minimized, do you have any idea how this would feel for her and how it would absolutley screw her mind up. This sort of crap leads people to Psychiatric institutions and suicide. It's emotional abuse of the most extreme kind along with sexual and physical abuse -and she is being blamed and to top it off her boyfriend is dumping his owm crap on her too by accusing her of cheating and lying, he's suppose to be her trusted one. - Blows my mind out the window at how sick our world has become. Who the hell does she go to when in a situation like this? Obviously noone because if she does, she gets abused further. It's obvious that noone in her life can be trusted and funny thing ahe, she's being blamed for that too - blamed for not being trustworthy.
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A
male
reader, rcn +, writes (3 August 2009):
Actually Felisha is right about not giving out personal information. It's for the protection of users, why we don't post personal information, such as email etc. when it's provided. When I've been trusted with personal information, it's been sent to me on my site email. When personal information is provided, have it sent privately and not by open post.
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A
female
reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (3 August 2009):
Let's not be stereotypical here, many guys have a desire to express their inner troubles and issues. True, many of them dont as well. I just happen to not think that we should not ask of personal information, not only for use of our knowledge of someone, but for further realease to others. Excuse me for looking into the best interest of people. As for those of you who seem to have recomendations of putting me in a higher manor on here, thank you, I accept and applaud your every word. I, for one, can relate this this question very well, I lived with my grandparents, who were backwoods. My parents weren't really in the picture. My father stayed home, drunk 24/7. My mother left me when I was 11 to go on a drug run, didnt return till I was 16, deciding she wanted to swoop in and be 'super mom'. I was raped when I was 14, held the trechid secret for two years then went through a long, tedious battle, that damaged my utter entity, and so I tried to run away from the world, went totally downhill. I regret some decisions I've made, but I am by no means looking for anyone's guilt or sorrow, only standing by what I know and believe, and using my experience to hopefully better others. To the OP, any further questions Id be more than happy to assist, knowing my background of experience in this fragile area of issues.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (3 August 2009): It is certainly possible to believe part of a person's story while doubting another part of it. That happens many times. I doubt that there is a person alive who has not totally believed one part of what they are being told, while doubting another part. I would also bet that nearly everyone has told the total truth about a part of a story and just a half truth about another part. Whatever the OP chooses to do here is up to him, as he knows the situation better than any of us can.
To the OP, I would think that nearly anyone would wonder what the entire truth is in a situation like this. However, that is not really the most important thing here. The most important thing is the feelings of the girl. She is the one who is being hurt here. Whether it was rape of not might be a fine line, excluding statutory rape of course. She could have allowed it to happen out of confusion and fear. That might be technically willingly, but I wouldn't consider it that way. Willingly to me is if she were wanting it and was making some of the moves. Willingly is not when somebody does it without protest out of fear. That is not cheating.
Even if you don't completely believe her, I think you should keep it to yourself. She does not need the hurt that comes from your doubting her right now or even in the near future. She is still young, confused and hurting from the experience and her life in general. I really can't say whether she would be better off if you stayed away from her or not right now, as I cannot possibly know the real situation and her state of mind. In a situation like this, a professional is needed, whether it be a psychologist or child services. Neither you nor us here are qualified to make the correct recommendations. Even if we have the proper training we cannot possibly know the situation well enough to be sure of the best thing to do. Perhaps Tisha made the best recommendation of her needing professional help.
Oh, by the way, I'm sorry that I missed the announcement of Felisha Marie being hired as the new rule maker and enforcer. Congratulations on your new position.
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A
female
reader, noonespecial2 +, writes (3 August 2009):
Hi there,
Your girlfriend has not cheated on you.
If she said no to oral sex and the friend ignored her and continued, it is clearly rape.
I can't seem to recall where consenting sexual intimacy involves biting one's breast until it bleeds.
I also don't think she would get her Dad involved if she was wanting a quickie as a fling on the side.
What on earth did you confront her for? Do you think she would lie about such a thing?
It seems you don't trust her - why? Has she lied or given you any reason not to trust her? Think back on your 10 months together, was she a liar?
You said that when you confronted her she cried her little heart out, what were you thinking? Not only has she been traumatized and raped, she is being blamed for it. This is the most horrendous thing that could ever happen to a girl. This is rape and sexual abuse and she is being held accountable for it - makes me sick.
You say that everytime you had something to say to her, her bottom lip quivered, what sort of a boyfriend are you?She needed you in her time of need and all you could think about is yourself. You say "I believe it was the heat of the moment, and she wanted it (who wouldn't)", why do you project onto her what you would do in this situation? Maybe your fears about her cheating are a reflection of yourself.
She is blaming herself for not being forceful enough - bulls**t. She said no and is in no way accountable for this deviant's behaviour. Even if she did go in the truck with him, this doesn't mean yes to any form of sex. She has been forced to go with this guy because of her Grandparents and with the dysfunction of this family, no wonder her sister is on drugs. You yourself said she blames herself for everything so it would be natural for her to cop the blame for this.
So not only do you not believe her, her Grandparents and half the replies here don't. What is the world coming to!!!
Is it any wonder she didn't tell you. She told her Grandparents and they didn't believe her and look at your response. omg...
Pull yourself together and be a Man. You're her boyfriend for goodness sake.
If she's a Pr**k teaser like she's being made out to be yhen why is it she hasn't been with you sexually?
You wanna make up your mind about whether you believe her or not. You believe it was her first sexual encouter yet you think she's lying about being raped. A little bit of consistency would be useful. You either believe everything she says or nothing, not this semi-believe her stuff.
It's simple, A LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN - Go to the Police.
And if you doubt her still, stay away as you will be doing her more damage.
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reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (3 August 2009):
Since when did this become a 'dig in to personal information' site? Young man, i think you have the best of intentions for your girlfriend, and caring should never be considered a burden on your part. Explain to her how you feel about her, the environment she lives, and that you want to do everything you can to help her. I, too, was raised in a very unhealthy environment on top of many other things piled on, and all i wanted was for someone to see me, someone to see my pain, to not only know of it...but to understand and ot reach a hand out pull me up and hug me. Alot of times troubled, or should I say harmed children and even adults, may seem to be fine, but really they're reaching out. Who turns down help if they can get it? Someone afraid.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionClose to Kerville/Boerne.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionIf what you say is true, bringing chaos to my doorstep, then bring it! Nobody deserves to be treated like that, I will show her the utmost respect a person can give her. Home she be just that, home, not a place of torment and pain.
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female
reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (2 August 2009):
No, those 3 more years could be the longest of her life. And you mentioned her Mother, I thought she lived with grandparents. Where is the Mom in this picture, and the Father? I understand your want and longing to help her, and it's the right thing to do. Has she ever revealed her true desperation living there, has she ever told you that she wasnt out. If so, have you considered the fact of one of the adults in her life sending you the message? Manipulative, but by the sounds of it, not surprising.
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reader, anonymous, writes (2 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI do believe her. It's just...can I semi-belive her? I believe it was the heat of the moment, and she wanted it (who wouldn't), but I also believe she's truly sorry and it wont happen again. Txt messages such as this one...
"Girfriend: Im not going to b able to see u for awhile. Ive got to go. Moms angry and ripping up [anonymous]'s clothes. I love you, dont call cps. Bye"
Just make me hate myself, because I want to help her, but she doesn't want it. I guess it's not longer up to me, I'm just a bystander that's going to sit on the sidelines and watch her demise. She's suffered 15 years, 3 more years will be pie for her...right? :(
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female
reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (1 August 2009):
Grandparents like that don't deserve somethig as special as a growing child. Some action needs to be taken, and Im sure even if you have no proof, just word of mouth, they will investigate and find somethin out. And that girl is old enough to look in to emancipation id she is truly unhappy in her current situation. She would need to impress the court though with a job, good grades...show responsibilty. Answering your question on how the 18 y/o got naked... None of us were there but my guess would be, Hmmm...raging hormones? If this was her first sexual encounter she was probably very scared and with her abusive home life, she needs help.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou think her Grandparents whore her out? This was her first sexual encounter. I also never got a clear cut answer as to how the 18 year old became naked, as she told me he was exposed. Again, he is long gone, he is in the Military. It really hurts to read how they would "pass her along", to other guys. There have been times I wanted to call CPS on the Grandparents, but I don't have their story either. From being slapped, to being told to dance, to not being let outside, to not cooking for her. Yet we have no proof but word of mouth. There isn't anything I can do now? I just have to wait? Her Grandparents are EXTREMELY picky of her friends. She doesn't have many friends, because she thinks "Whats the point, they wont be aloud over, I'll just be a loner forever". It's all really heart breaking.
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reader, Felisha Marie +, writes (1 August 2009):
For one, young man, under law if you and your girlfriend engage in any sexual activity it would be considered as statutory rape, so I would hope you are posting this with intent to help your girlfriend instaed of just trying to get an answer to point fingers or leave her. Another, at the fragile age of 15, especially under circumstances of a bad home life, decisions made are not responsible ones. She very well may have made the decsision to see this boy either with or without intentions of it going as far as it did. First, let me ask how old is this boy she had problems with? Next, if she did 'cheat', why is it this boy only cares enough, or should I say shows interest in on Sundays? Making that girl skip Sunday school. Maybe if they didnt skip Sunday school they wouldn't be in trouble in the first place and would know how important it is to save yorself for a very special person, and to not take advantage of vulnerable little girls. In any sense, either way, she's reaching out to someone for some kind of understanding, in which I think she very well deserves. That girl needs someone to not only know the pain she carries but to UNDERSTAND. Too many people look that over. There has been many failed attempts to help people only because they JUST listen, there is no understanding or provided feedback to help. Listen to your girlfriend and tell her that no matter what you're there to help her, give her advice to help your with her over-bearing, backwoods grandparents as well, if her grandma set up a harmful relationship well knowing what pain her grandaughter carries from it, then that girl does not need to be in that home, but a healthy environment. She very well may feel alone and is just reaching out for some kind of relationship with someone which is why she may have fallen for the Sunday boy's act, who knows. What I think all ahe needs, is a good friend. Be there for her.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): I wouldn't really say this is the time and place for sarcasm, and it is hard to detect sarcasm when you don't know someone. No I DO NOT agree with your sarcastic comment. I meant I had agreed to what you were saying until you said that, I don't mean including that. I did read all of what you said, that's why I was baffled as it was good advice. Maybe it was just me that didn't perceive it as sarcasm?
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reader, rcn +, writes (1 August 2009):
Let her know the only actions she can control is her own. She's not to blame when someone else is the actor. To a certain extent we all do it. It's hard not to. We take on a certain amount of pain that someone else is going through because we care about their well being and it makes it hard not to.
You also need to realize that you can't fix all with her either. I've been in that position where I think, "If only I", but that too doesn't help anyone, just makes us feel as if we're more involved than we actually are.
Does she have any "mentally competent" relatives that she might be able to leave and live with? If not maybe a friend that their parents might allow her to stay with them? If this situation is what you say it is, three years can be extremely damaging. It'd be in her best interest to be somewhere safe now, and not wait that time.
In the meantime, validate her importance as a person whenever you get a chance to. A friend of mind who was in a situation "similar as far as traumatic", but it was her stepfather who raped her for almost 5 years. She was a troubled teen. I told her not long ago, I though she was going to become a porn star or hooked on drugs. As an adult now, I know her excessive flirtatious behavior with adults was a sign. But, she's took a positive route. She's graduating from college in a year with a degree in criminal justice and a minor in psychology. She's going to be working with kids who are in situations similar to the one she grew up in. So, sometimes trauma can be used as a benefit.
Have her, not just with you, talk to an adult she trusts. I make sure my kids know, all the time, that they may not have the answers to help a friend who needs it. When they don't, their mom or I might. If we don't, we know someone who does. I hope this helps.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): I'm honestly not on his thread just to bash people's answers, so to the OP, I will tell you what I think.
From the information you've given, you knew that her grandmother was pressuring her to date this guy, before this incident occured. I (obviously) can't say that she was/wasn't assualted, only she (and the guy she is being forced to date) knows that.
You should use your better judgement as to whether to believe her or not. From the information you told us about her grandmother, this should give you reason to believe her, but because it's oral sex, then sure, you'd doubt, wouldn't you? Because surely oral sex isn't assault?
From the answers that have been provided, you have probably changed your views on this, because anything sexual can be classed as sexual assault. I agree with the few others that, even if she didn't say no, she could have consented out of fear. The incident should also be judged by how she felt, and I'm guessing she felt terrified!
I think she needs to get out of the house she's living in. Report this to the police, and only be around people that love and care about her, such as yourself. This is easier said than done, and I think you should encourage her to do this. If she is too scared too, and if she doesn't realise, then you need to get her to see that things won't change unless she speaks up. It will be terrifying for her, so don't put pressure on her. Only she can decide what to do, but what will this guy do next? I dread to think.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): 'If she wont do what it takes to redeem herself for being raped I think you should be allowed to beat the shit out of her. I really do.' Sorry but that is so out of line. I had agreed to what you were saying up until you said that. Where the hell does that come from? Why should she deserve to get beaten up by the OP (her bf) because, if she was sexually assaulted, too scared to say or do anything about it? You can't compare married woman to a 15 year old girl who may/may not have been assaulted.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionShe has 3 years to put up with all this trauma, and the very exact moment she turns 18, I will take her to a better place. One where is she respected, and is able to grow into the full woman I know she will become. I haven't even went into the story of her drug possessed sister that she adores. Its like she would be perfect, if she was taken away from her home. When we first dated, her birth Mom (remember, she lives with her Grandmother), asked if she needed condoms. I mean, come on, is that how she views her daughter? "Well well, you've got yourself a boyfriend, I assume its for one reason". I will not leave her. I also went with the advice, and asked her if I could help her in anyway to bring this guy to jail. She told me "It's not fair to ruin his life, he didn't ruin your life, I did. I'm sorry". She also likes to blame herself for everything. I only wish I could be there 24/7.
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reader, GrimmReality +, writes (1 August 2009):
Leave her alone...regardless of whether she was raped or not, forced by her grandparents to see him or not, the fact remains is this young lady is most likely damaged beyond any help you can give her. Since you aren't a professional, your duties as a boyfriend have ended with her.
Bets you get on with your life...you are going to college anyway. A 15 year old should be out of sight, out of mind. So just keep moving forward.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): Considering the answers that I am seeing here from the men, except for q1605, it is no wonder that women don't go to the police when they are raped. I just can't believe the piles of shit that I am reading. Sure it is possible that she could have done it willingly, but just what the hell leads one to think that from the information given? The answer is nothing. What the hell leads one to the assumption that she did it willingly? Perhaps she didn't fight out of fear of either him or her grandmother, but how does that make her the guilty one?
There are 2 victims here. From what I have read, the 15 year old girl is the main victim. She is having a guy forced on her by a grandmother who is her guardian. Is this the entire truth? Perhaps not, but how can anyone so confidently assume that it is not true? Then there is the OP. He is a lesser victim no matter which is true, rape or willing involvement.
The fact is that none of us know the real truth in this story, so the best that we can do is to believe what has been written unless it is utterly unbelievable. I don't see that here, so I choose to believe what has been written.
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reader, rcn +, writes (1 August 2009):
Statutory rape in TX is 17. But as stated in § 22. 011, "The actor has an affirmative defense if he is not more than three years older than the victim, who is at least age 14." So, she can consent with someone 3 no more than 3 years older."
If she is cheating you, the boyfriend, are the victim. You mentioned going to college soon. What are your plans there? How far away will you be living? And are you planning on frequent visits? With your age differences is your bond strong enough to hold your relationship together? These are questions you need to ask yourself. As far as whether or not she was raped or consented, there's conflicting opinions. As I stated earlier, there's not enough information to determine the direction this took, but there are holes if you look at it as a rape, that have not been answered, and as consenting that has not.
What I'd consider is your true feelings for her. Reason being, if she cheated it's going to hurt cause you were violated. If she was raped, it's going to hurt cause someone you love was violated. So, if this guy is not coming around anymore, that's what I'd base your decision off of. It depends on if you're willing to work through this with her or not. So, is the love you have strong enough to work through this, or do you feel it's just time to move on, since your life is taking a different direction.
What I would do as well is work through your feelings of all this. Whether she cheats or was sexually assaulted, it's not just her who's affected. And what you don't work through piles with everything else, and expands.
Take care, and I hope all works out for you.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (1 August 2009):
Sorry, I should have been more specific with the link I provided earlier:
http://www.rainn.org/get-help/help-a-loved-one
Personally, I would go from the stance that she is innocent until proven guilty.
I wish you well and I hope she gets the help she needs.
Take care.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYou guys are making valid points, but keep missing the main one. What am I to do, as her current boyfriend?
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (1 August 2009):
Oh, and lest we forget. Age of consent is 17 in Texas. That means, legally, she is not considered competent to give consent to sexual activity for another two years. As q1605 put it, these laws are there to protect the ones who can't protect themselves.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (1 August 2009):
Let's say the default is that everyone has decided she's a cheater. Let's say that she was in fact victimized. She is then victimized a second time. I prefer to start from the default that she is telling the truth; if it's not true, I hope the system finds out.
Let me put it this way. She's your daughter. Now how do you handle this? I sincerely doubt you'd say, "oh honey, why did you cheat on your boyfriend with the guy we've been pushing on you?"
This girl deserves to be believed until such time as she is proven guilty. The opposite stance is just too damaging to a contemplate.
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reader, rcn +, writes (1 August 2009):
Tisha-1: She needs mental help? What if, for sake of argument, she just wanted to do this, and said she didn't not to be ridiculed by family, but so she wouldn't loose her boyfriend? This is also the age where curiosity about sexuality and hormonal impulses emerge. If so, would she be the victim, other than the three year difference between she and this guy? So, she may not be asking for it, she might just want it. But, unfortunately we don't know enough about this girl to state whether she was an exploratory teen, or a victim of assault. So this could be viewed from either direction.
It's understandable why victims do not run to the police. That's not just in vulnerable teens, but in adults as well. But the third Sunday, she involved her dad. This could be out of being a victim, or it could also be out of guilt. What we can state for sure is that every teen engaging in oral sex is not being victimized.
Now if the grandparents are enabling this on their granddaughter, and allowing him to have her sitting on his lap (stated against her will to do so). She's not in need of psychiatric treatment as much as the grandparents would be. But even there we don't know enough about the whole story to judge in that direction either.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 July 2009): q1605, when I first read your answer, I thought, "What the hell." Then when Tisha complemented you, I realized that I must have not understood what you were saying and reread it slowly. Well, I had misunderstood what you were saying in your first paragraph. As Tisha said, excellent answer. I would encourage everyone to read it twice to get the full meaning of what you said.
Perhaps I did not say as much as I should have in my first answer. I thought that agreeing with Tisha's answer got my thoughts across. As Tisha has said, she is only 15 years old and in a bad family situation. She is basically being forced to date this guy who is trying to take advantage of her. She has little choice but to see him. She is not doing it because it is her wish. I think that was pretty clear in the original question. At least that is what I got out of it when I first read it.
As far as the short discussion on age of consent discussion - my response was simply to how I understand the law as related to her and the OP dating. I was just saying that I don't think that they have broken any law by a 18 year old dating a 15 year old if there is no sex involved. In my mind, the thing with the other guy borders on rape, if not actually legally rape.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (31 July 2009):
I have to address the men who think that if a woman, no, wait, this is a GIRL, doesn't run to the police the instant the guy slides off her, that she must not have been raped. Or sexually assaulted, if we don't want to use the "R" word here, since there was no intercourse. All I can say to you men, who have NEVER been a teenage girl, and have no idea how vulnerable and confused they can be, especially when it comes to sex. We blame the women who get beaten by their husbands or boyfriends, because they choose to stay with them. We blame the girls who have unwanted sexual advances thrust on them, because they were "asking for it."
You get to sit on your perch of years of knowing you are bigger, stronger, can pretty much be sure of knowing that you could take down any woman if it ever came to a fight. There might have been a time that you were 13 and your voice hadn't broken yet, but even then, you knew you were a GUY who could beat up any GIRL anytime. You have the benefit of loads of testosterone, which causes you to mature differently, with lots of muscles and plenty of balls to feel feisty and macho.
Guess what, news flash, women, girls do not have this wonderful benefit. No, we get those hormones that suddenly means we grow breasts and hips and all of a sudden, we are the objects of unwanted attention. I wish I could tell you how many times I was hit on, or groped or somehow inappropriated approached by creeps, just because I suddenly looked like a woman. I expect many women have had this happen to them.
We get these new bodies and our lives become confusing and we're supposed to be 'sexy' because that's what all the women who get positive media attention are doing. We have no clue what goes on in the minds of boys or men, because we're still coming to grips with what's happening to our own mind and our own bodies. We feel vulnerable. Yes, we do, we feel vulnerable. We don't want to shout and say "no don't you dare touch me or I'll cause a scene" because that would be embarassing, and maybe it was "my fault that I was walking on that street when I knew that guy would be there and he would want to do those things" and we literally do not know how to handle it.
SHE'S FIFTEEN. She's not an old and wiser and feistier WOMAN, she's a GIRL. For all we know, she's had the kind of upbringing that has set her up to be an abused wife. Her self-esteem could be in the toilet, the people who are supposed to be looking after her are putting her with guys who feel it's okay to BITE a woman on the breast.
I'm sorry, guys, but you have NO FUCKING CLUE what it means to be a teenage girl and NO FUCKING CLUE what goes on in the mind of a domestic abuse victim.
So, my goddamn advice is to BACK OFF THIS GIRL and let her get the help she goddamn needs. And you men who judge a 15 year old girl by your 25, 35, 45, 55 or whatever age you are male personal standards do not qualify to be giving advice to anybody on any sexual assault questions.
Q1605, that was one of the goddamn best posts I have seen from you or anyone on this board in a long time.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 July 2009): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm living in Texas, if I remember correctly, the age of consent is 17. I'm not saying her and I have had sex, I said her and this other 18 year old did. She received oral from him. Good points guys, why in the world, if she was raped, would you go back to see this guy?
I know for a fact that her Grandma just adores this guy, and always makes them go on dates to the movies, even though were dating. He usually makes her sit on his lap. Her Grandma probably made them go somewhere every Sunday, at Church.
What should I do? I can't help her, I'm moving to another city to start College, while she's stuck in this rut town as a sophomore.
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reader, LazyGuy  +, writes (31 July 2009):
 If she was raped, why did she keep going out with him?
She could have been sexually assaulted the first time, but whatever exactly happened, she dated him as near as I can make out TWO more times. While she was still in contact with you.
That speaks volumes.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 July 2009): Ask oldersister, I don't think that he said that they are having sex at all. As I understand it, the age of consent is only related to sex, not dating. I assume that you were referring to it being legal for them to date and not for her to have sex with the other guy.
If the age of consent does relate to dating without sex then I would be interested in that. Various states have ages of consent between 14 and 18 and sometimes it depends on the age spread.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 July 2009): I feel so sorry for this girl. She is obviously in a not too good family situation and very confused. Did she cheat? I don't know, but I don't think so. She might have given in to the guy some out of fear. Was she raped? Probably not in the legal sense, but perhaps close to rape.
I agree with Tisha. She needs professional help and she does not need you pressing her for an answer right now, as she is already feeling badly about it all. In my opinion, if she cheated, it was out of pressure and fear and not out of desire.
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (31 July 2009):
You know what? She's 15, and she's obviously troubled. She needs some professional help, whatever happened, and it's probably best that you let her go and deal with it, and not add any more interrogations to the pile of troubles she has.
Some women and girls have a great deal of difficulty reporting sexual assaults or inappropriate touching or whatever the hell happens to them because they are scared. Scared of what will happen, scared of what their families and loved ones will say, scared of what strangeers will call them if they found out.
Cut the girl a break right now, you can figure out guilt and blame later. She needs professional help. She's underage, she's having either sexual encounters or sexual assaults and she's troubled by this. Back off and make sure she has access to treatment.
I hope her family is handling this appropriately. Poor thing.
http://www.rainn.org/
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reader, GrimmReality +, writes (31 July 2009):
If she was raped, why didn't she go to the police? If she was raped, why did she see this guy MULTIPLE TIMES?
Simple as that!
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reader, kayla20  +, writes (31 July 2009):
 if something was distressing her it was obviously going to take her a long time to tell you if she cheated she could have jus not told you at all but the fact is she trusted and confided in you.if i was you id ask the question what was she doing with him two sundsys in a row did she go willingly.to be honest yourl never really know the truth but if shes told her grandpa and grandma then i wouldnt say she was lying it just depends on whether you can move forward and trust her
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reader, rcn +, writes (31 July 2009):
So, he was giving oral sex to her? Sexual assault is generally self pleasuring. I don't see (not saying it's impossible) how someone stops at only giving oral sex to a girl. Like I said, it's not completely impossible, but I personally have not heard of a sexual assault taking place that way.
Giving her the small benefit of the small doubt that this first time was a forced act, I can't think of why she'd put herself in a position like this the following week. If she wouldn't have involved her dad, wouldn't that be 3 weeks in a row? This is her friend? Assaulting her, I don't think they'd be good friends.
If this happened, and if she involved the day, is he in jail? What'd the dad do or say. I know with my daughters I wouldn't kindly ask someone not to touch my girls again. There are some strange parts to this story. Did you find out at the end of this, or the beginning? It'd seem strange that as soon as you confront her it stops.
I don't know what was going on with her during this time. All I can state anything on is their are questions to this story that haven't been answered. I know I'd be weary of what really took place.
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