A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:Are women losing skills in roles they traditionally did like cooking and housekeeping? If so, what skills are they gaining instead?Let me first say that I love my wife, but I was shocked at how little she is able to do. She is an excellent cook, but beyond that she does not excel in any of the traditional wife/mother roles. Tonight I had to vacuum and I see that the beater bar isn't working. A blue light indicates that but more so the vacuum is not working well. It is all gummed up with pet hair and thus the vacuum does not work. My wife has been "vacuuming" for a while like this and did not even notice! I don't expect her to fix it, but I expect her to notice.She's also terrible at cleaning house, doing laundry, and other traditional female roles. She couldn't tell me how to get a stain out or sew a button back on. She does not know how to tie a man's tie.Okay. That's fine. I am not trying to be sexist here. However, in talking to my friends and coworkers I hear the same things: their wives don't know how to clean the oven or bake a cake. I know I will now hear from a lot of women who say that they do all that and are airline pilots and CEOs, too, but that's not what I see. I see men doing more of the chores and learning how to make eggs benedict, while at the same time still being tasked with changing the oil in the car and fixing the toilet.Why are so many women losing these skills and what are they learning instead? I read a lot about women overwhelmed with full-time jobs and childrearing, but in my circle (educated professionals) the men do as much work at home as the women but also do it better. I love my wife and hate to be critical, but she often tells me: "How would I know that?" Well, same way I do, I guess - and she is not a dumb woman by any stretch. My friends and coworkers have the same complaints: trash not thrown out (hers, not "ours"), filthy stove and oven, laundry wrinkled (hers; I fold mine and learned to do mine separate from hers or it will be messed up), breaking things, and no real wisdom to impart ("old wives tales"). I feel somehow a generation of women was told that they did not have to serve men. That's fine, but what about themselves? Many of us feel like the women in the relationship, except we have to do the traditional male things, too. It's not like my wife is mowing the lawn or changing the battery on the car.In short, I feel overwhelmed. I also feel like somehow women are losing valuable skills they once had in favor of... I am not sure what. This seems like a disservice. I would just say it is my wife, but when us guys get together I hear stories about wives and daughters that make me think: "Wow! There is a trend here!" Same things over and over.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (17 April 2012):
 My perspective is that if anything women are becoming just as helpless as men. Or that men are actually becoming more helpless than women, once you lift your gaze and take a look at the society at large and not just your group of friends. If anything I know that men depend on women to do most of the "traditional" female things, while women are now able to work and hire in the muscle needed to lift furniture.
So we disagree. You think your wife symbolizes all women, whereas I see your wife as the rare exception.
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (17 April 2012):
 12 times what your wife makes ? Problem solved, then. Supposing that your wife earns just a little, say 600 a month ?- your income combined is still about 8000 monthly. Call the company to install the damn water heater, and free your weekend for more gratifying purposes !
If you are, how shall we put it, exceedingly frugal, that is your personal choice, or problem, not your wife's or your community at large, or the whole world. There's nothing inherently evil or wrong in delegating tasks as much as it is possible, it's called a service economy, it's the foundation of every modern economy in developped and developping countries , 70% of mondial economy is represented by the sector of services, people won't go back to churn their own butter or cobble their own shoes just because it 's more manly, or womanly, or romantic, reason for which the abilities that you prize so much are destined to become less and less valuable and more and more disposable . Nobody stops you from doing what you want and enjoying what you like , but be aware that YOUR way is not necessarily the only way or the best way. I've got a kooky friend that still writes her letters by hand AND seals the envelope with sealwax ! ,but she does not give us grief because we type on a computer.
P:S:. what's wrong with washing wool sweaters in the washing machine ? It's perfectly possible, you just have to load it at no more than half load , set the program for " delicate " at a temperature of 30 C., use wool detergent only, no tumble dry. Never had a problem, and I learned this womanly skill... by following the instructions on the labels:)
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A
female
reader, Ciar  +, writes (17 April 2012):
 My experience and observations have been quite different. Most of the women I know or have heard of not only have a full or part time job, do all or most of the house cleaning, laundry, cooking, grocery shopping and child raising, NOW they take out the garbage each morning and they're also doing most or all of the gardening and snow shoveling. I was wondering where all the 'traditional' men were.I guess it just depends where you are and who you know.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (17 April 2012): OP here:I earn 4 times as much as my wife did when she was working and maybe 12 times as much now that she hardly works. She can sit on her butt all day if she wants to (and she sometimes takes advantage of that). The same is the case with many of my colleagues and their wives. Those that are not married to doctors or engineers (and some indeed are) are those apt to complain. Those married to professional women, well, I am sure they have nannies, maids, gardeners, and so on. How nice for them that they have time to perfect their dancing to impress CindyCares at parties because they don't have to worry about spending the weekend installing a new water heater. That's not the point here. The point here is that there is value in these "menial chores." We eat healthier if we cook our own meals and grow (at least some of) our own food. We can be more fashionable if we can sew our own clothes (or curtains). We know what to do if we are stuck on a desert highway without cell coverage and a tire blows out. We know not to throw a wool sweater into the washer and dryer. It's common for urban dwellers (men and women) to spend most of their disposable income on services, but there is a helplessness that seems go to along with that. My perspective is that women are becoming more helpless than men - dependent on others for handling even basic chores. There is quite a difference between knowing how to sew a button, but taking it in because you do not have time and not knowing how to sew one at all.I don't know what kind of yard (or house) can be cared for by a robot, but that sounds lovely. I somehow doubt that would work for me.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (16 April 2012):
"Every single day I see married people coming to work with McDonald and Burger King bags and their wives sitting on the sofa watching TV. I.. myself cannot not figure out what has gone wrong."Yup, they should have learned to make their own lunch, shouldn't they have? Look, this is all rather silly. If you married a lazy woman or not who doesn't do anything.. well, I can imagine tons of women marry lazy good for nothing men as well. I am certain they exist. But that is no reason to lash out at the entire gender. When it comes to traditional roles they are still very much alive and breathing for the majority of us, and while we might start to split chores evenly between us (the man sewing his own buttons and the woman changing her own tires), certain things are also moved on from automatically due to MODERNITY. We no longer clean our clothes in the river you know. And things that used to be a full-day (not full-time, as a traditional housewife worked twice as many hours as the man) are now reduced to more moderate hours. It is now possible to work AND do your household chores. Which is why BOTH genders need to chip in. I really do not get what your fuzz is about. If your wife is lazy then call her lazy, don't start chiming about "losing skills". She's not losing any skills when she didn't ever have them, or had the interest to learn simple practical things. It's probably laziness which is to blame, and not some huge social conspiracy. As for "traditional" roles, they were replaced by the dishwasher, the microwave, the washing machine, the kinder garden etc. If there were no kinder gardens do you honestly believe for one second that MEN would have to sit at home and watch their offspring? Not a chance. Without kinder gardens the majority of women would suddenly vanish from the work-field, and if that isn't proof enough of "traditional roles" still being very much alive then I don't know what is. I think it is time you stop trying to excuse your wife's laziness by blaming it on society, and start telling her to chip in more at home. And then show her how to sew her own buttons.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (16 April 2012):
@ anon reader of April 16 th: yes, but, anon reader, can't you see the EVIDENT difference between your case and the OP's. ?
You LIKE what you do, you do it effortlessly,voluntarily, with pride and joy, and you believe it's important. The OP's wife does NOT.
While I don't share your habits and priorities, which are widely different from mine,- I totally respect them, because you don't try to impose them on anybody. You are not tryng to force your husband to wash your car ; he WANTS to do it, he thinks it's better if he does it personally.
The OP's wife does not, she does not even understand what's the big deal about being able to sew your own buttons. And the OP wants to impose his values and priorities on her ( and the rest of the world ).
If one wants to be Fred Mertz , that's perfectly fine, as long as he makes sure to marry an Ethel. Not fair demanding to Ethelize another woman.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 April 2012): You are absolutely right, I AGREE WITH YOU 100%, I cook, clean house, wash, sew on my husband button if needed, iron our clothes, and I do not have a problem with that because I'm the women of this house.. We're not the type of family that eat out everyday, cost too much and too many unclean dining and plus we eat healthy. My husband cooks and clean house but I pretty much take care of the inside of the house and my husband takes care of the outside, sometimes my husband helps me with the inside and sometime I help him with the outside.
We're not slaves to each other, we love each other, when I got home late friday night my food was on the table. When he got back from visiting his mom I had mowed the lawn. We don't believe in spending unnecessary money, why would my husband take our cars to the car wash when he save on doing it himself. He keeps both cars in good shape.
I wanted new cabinets, all he said was go find the ones you want and let me know, he and his friend put them up. I wanted a closet in the basement, him and his friend built that.
I do believe the reason so many homes up for sale because people like a friend of mine pay to have everything done and eat out everyday.
We both works so it's not a big deal for us. When I make my lunch for work I make my husband a lunch if he decide to take one.
Every single day I see married people coming to work with McDonald and Burger King bags and their wives sitting on the sofa watching TV. I.. myself cannot not figure out what has gone wrong.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (15 April 2012):
OP, it's strictly a matter of points of view. I think that it's a terribly sad way of living, instead, if you have to come home after a long working day and use your free time for puttering around the house doing menial,boring ,repetitive, mind numbimg and often totally superflous tasks, that can easily be avoided with a little ingenuity,simplified, delegated for a small or reasonable amount of money to someone who is specifically trained to do it and will do it professionally. And if you HAVE to do it, again, OP, nothing that you quoted is sophisticated knowledge that needs to be passed down through the generations during painstaking years of practice. It's all stuff that anybody with a normal I.Q. can pick up in 5 or 10 minutes from the Internet ,or from an instructions booklet.
I can't think of anything sadder than wasting on ininfluent stuff time that could be used to improve yourself by learning REAL life skills , marketable skills . Or taking care of your physical, mental and spiritual health . Or doing something for your community, or the world beyond the limited horizon of your cozy 50's household. Or cultivating your real interests, passions and talents. Or, at the very least , acquiring social skills that would benefit the people you come in touch with and make you a welcome addition to their life, a fun, interesting , exciting person to be with.
Should I meet you at a party, OP, I am sure I'd easily forgive you if you had ALL you buttons dangling, but you were a brilliant,well informed conversationalist, an accomplished artist, a passionate connosseur of something,- a great dancer, or card player at least :) ! Instead, if you had the most beautifully ironed shirt,and came from the most spotless house in town... but all you could tell me about how you spent the day after work, is that you fixed the vacuum, shelled the peas , and hand washed your undies.... well, OP, between yawns I ( and many people, of both genders) would think that it is sad, very sad.
Different strokes for different people, OP. Don't assume that your " strokes " should be good for society at large, - it would be presumptuous, and naive .
Btw, how come you lament the departure from tradition for women, but not for men ? No, OP, I am not talking about changing the oil, or the car battery- too easy :).
I am talking about the most traditional ,typical, basilar skill for men until not so faraway years :
the skill of earning enough for two ( and more, if there are kids ) so that mommy can stay home and unhurriedly darn socks while daddy goes out and brings home the bacon for everybody and EVERYTHING .
How come you don't do that ? Did you loose your manly traditional skill ?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 April 2012): OP I'm glad my girlfriend isn't the June Cleaver type because it's no longer relevant to society anymore.
You see I'm the handyman of the house, I clean the bots, I do all the labour and fix things (she does try but usually ends up making a mess of things) and I cook the majority of our meals from scratch, with fresh ingredients.
She earns a lot more money than me and is a financial whiz. All our home finances are covered and sorted by her. She is a woman who knows how to get shit done too. She does all the admin for the house, gets some great bargains and knows how to haggle. If we need to something repaired which I can't do she'll get someone in on the cheap to do it and god help them of they don't do it right because she'll hunt them down and wipe out their entire bloodline if she's not happy.
OP most women I know have replaced their domestic chores with efficiency and intelligence. I know plenty that just love cleaning and tinkering with things, they find it therapeutic and it makes them feel accomplished to do so. But they don't need traditional skills because they use modern tools to complete a task. The Internet is there if they want to find out how to sew a button or make a meal and there are a whole range of services/appliances available to do the laborious menial crap. We don't eat ready meals, we don;t throw away things that can be fixed but I can do that and I enjoy doing that. She doesn't. She prefers to enrich our lives by having fun, having beautiful things and spending quality time together after work. We'd rather sit together and watch a movie while the bots do the floors and garden. She'd rather go through our budget and take care of bills while I prepare a meal and clean as I go along.
OP after 8-10 hours work 5 days a week, we don't want to spend hours cleaning, fixing things and doing domestic chores. We want to spend our lives having fun, visiting friends, going for a few pints, watch movies, playing with the dogs and generally pursuing our hobbies and enjoying the fruits of our labour.
This isn't the 1950's or even the 1800's were the lack of technology meant that caring for the home was a full time job. Why go to work and earn all that money if you're not going to use to improve your life and live it happily? Maybe you're the type of guy who is happiest when he's busy, that's fine. But I'm sure as hell you married that woman because she brings some great things to the relationship and who cares about traditional? Traditional domestic chores and skills were things people were forced to do, for majority it wasn't a choice because it's boring and it's a chore.
Why wash the dishes when you have a dishwasher? Why use a mangle when you can spin dry? Why do the lawn when you pay a neighbourhood kid or your own kid 5 bucks to do it?
The best skill a woman can have these days is the skill that most are learning of have and that's intelligence and assertiveness. That's what get's stuff done these days and there is no point slaving away at a crappy task for an hour when you have the means or the money to have it done faster or by someone else.
Life's too short not to enjoy it.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (15 April 2012):
 When women could afford to stay home and make homemaking a full time job then yes it made sense that she did it all like June Cleaver...
IF you want the 1950s again.. then make enough money to support your family and have her have one job.
as for the damn button, there was a profession called TAILOR before women were able to work outside the home. Yes, MEN knew how to sew. Why are the roles so strongly defined in your home?
Today my man will run out for the errands and I will clear the regulator in the gas grill.
I will wash the clothes as his allergies prevent him from going in our basement currently but he will fold his and put his away...
Whomever makes dinner does NOT clean up after dinner.
HE changed the sheets yesterday as my back cannot take that particular bending angle...
He will carry the trash to the curb tonight... I only help if there is a lot of trash.
We both have jobs that we do consistently but we also help each other and do what needs to be done.
IF I say "honey the oil in the car needs changing" shouldn't he change the oil? where should he do this as we are not allowed to do it in the area in front of our house due to laws in my neighborhood... so he's slacking on his manly duties.... he's also earning way less than I am and is not working but yet I'm still the woman so DINNER is my responsibility right?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 April 2012): OP here:we have to take care of mundane chores around the house ourselves. I have noticed an increasing trend where while women become "career women" (and by this I mean middle-income and not CEOs) they have given up desiring to learn the skills that keep a households running. Maybe it is a 1950's mentality, but it's nice to be able to do some things yourself. One reason is to know when it has been done correctly. Ever try to hire someone to do something you have no idea about? Let us say, neurosurgery. (Sadly, I had this happen recently.) It's almost impossible to know if he will do a good job. The answer of course is education. Will I ever be as skilled in neurosurgery as a neurosurgeon? No. Do I know a lot more about it now than I did 3 months ago. Hell, yes. Maybe a lot of you are happy in this disposable society where you eat microwaved dinners and throw away a jacket because a button came off of it, but I am not. To me, it seems men are actually more traditional than women. I realize that women are trying to throw off the yoke of male oppression, but refusing to learn basic skills for maintaining a household seems like an overreaction.I can do most of the things my dad could do (not all, I admit) but also most of the things my mom could do. Not because I was taught by mom so much as I am an adult who does actually like to live better than a college student, but without a lawyer-married-do-surgeon income. For my perspective, I see women who think that "being liberated" means not being able to care for a household (even their own). As far as how the work is divided in my households, I do more than my share in terms of labor. That's my choice, of course. However, I am shocked that when I do need help with something specialized but traditionally done by women my wife is rarely any use. I would chalk it up to it just being my wife, but my friends have the same experiences and some of the comments here bear that out. Women think that if they have an accounting degree then they are above sewing a button, whereas men with careers have ALWAYS been expected (at least since the 1970s) to help out around the home in addition.Frankly, I like being able to cook and not ruin my new $100 sweater in the wash, but I guess a lot of the rest of the world just eats prepared foods and takes their clothes to the laundry. Kind of a sad existence if you ask me.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 April 2012): We live in a society full of products that you don't fix anymore, you just replace. Our lifestyle aren't oriented around doing things for ourselves anymore. Fixing cars? Modern cars work for 100,000 miles without so much as a tune-up. And when they finally do break, you usually need computerized auto diagnostics and a whole lot of other specialized tools to do anything about it. Sewing up ripped clothes? A lot of clothes are so cheap these days that they aren't worth several hours of your time and some specialized skills to fix anymore. And the buttons don't fall off as much as they used to. Cooking food? People eat on such different schedules (and with such time crunches) anymore that a lot of the time it's hardly worth trying to cook meals like it used to be. And eating out is expensive but not as much as it used to be. The high prices of food at the grocery store are closing that gap more and more.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (13 April 2012):
About buttons and gender roles.. I have to pitch in something that I found provocative to be honest. Here in Norway there's a clothing store for men that has a "button guarantee". The buttons are guaranteed to not fall off. If they happen to fall off I assume you can turn the shirt back in.
A couple of years ago I went to buy a new winter coat (ladies coat). When I got home I noticed the buttons were ALL loose! I went back to the store to complain about it. You wouldn't believe the answer I got: oh, the buttons were supposed to be loose. We were expected to sew them on properly ourselves!!!
And here you come OP, complaining about your wife. Well, your wife wouldn't be able to buy clothes here it seems, whereas you, as a man, get a freaking button-guarantee. Your theory about women "losing their skills" doesn't fly far. Your case is isolated and can not be used to generalize women as a whole, not even in the most modern of societies.
Besides, all you do is complain about how she doesn't know this or that. You do not mention whether or not you actually split the chores equally or if you're feeling like you do more around the house. If you split the chores evenly then what difference does it make that there are certain things she hasn't learned? There are tons of things you don't know either.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (13 April 2012):
OP, some skills are surely getting lost, but generally what gets lost is what is not so relevant, indispensable or functional any more.
One hundred years ago people were surely way more adept around horses, they knew how to feed them and brush them and probably shoe them by themselves .
Two hundred years ago , everybody was very good at candle making, or soap making, or preserving pickles. Now we realized that we can excellently do with store bought products, even if, in a way, it's a pity :), I agree.
No intention to diss you OP, please don't get offended but your post has a refreshingly 50s flavour. As if you lived in a Happy Days episode. Or better, in "I love Lucy ". " Looocy- what appened to my laundry "- do you say that a lot ?
You seem to care a lot about things and skills which most people ( and particularly urban educated full time working professionals ! ) really don't sweat about .
When I got married, both my husband and I did not know how to do anything at all, and quite frankly neither particularly cared to learn, being both busy enough with work, schools , social life, hobbies and then raising our kid.
But we not only coped, we coped brilliantly- by simplifying . Of course, we had help- HIRED help for the heavy -duty , back breaking stuff ,- like any couple of both full time working busy professionals I've ever came across. As for all the inevitable rest, ... simplify .
Cleaning ovens ? baking cakes ?
It's not against the law if you like it :), but you can easily do without. We ate simply: pasta, salads, eggs, fruit, cheese, boiled or grilled entrees- not many occasions,nor requests, for souffles or casseroles or stuffed fowl... Sure, it does come a time when you HAVE to clean the oven regardless, but, like eevrything else you mentioned....
...come on, OP, it's not brain surgery or rocket science. It does not take a Ph.D. from the Ivy League to clean an oven, or dust a mirror, or sew a button. If push comes to shove, you just do it- you wing it. No big deal.
I normally don't sew my buttons , because I don't loose them ( that MUST be a gender thing,lol. Men always shed buttons like birds muting feathers ) but if I loose one , I can give a couple of euros to the laundry to do it for me. And if that's not possible and I really have to do it myself, I did and I will, without too many studies or difficulties .
Of course , probably my ( still very clean, believe me ) place would not be up to your standards. Or to my grandmother's. At my grandma's place, they would starch handkerchiefs and napkins and sheets every day - and they would polish even the curtains' metal rings .
I don't know how to starch linens, and I don't need to, because I use paper tissues and paper napkins anyway, and when I don't , I can live with unstarched linen. I can also live with metal objects not being shining. Or wearing trousers without a razor sharp crease. Or the waste basket not being emptied daily on the dot.
Can you ?... Apparently not so much, which of course it's your choice and your prerogative , and a respectable one. You just seem to not understand that your priorities are not everybody's priorities , and they don't necessarily have to be.
Maybe your wife used the time she could have spent learning " stain removal skills " in other more intellectually challenging ways. Or, maybe she just used that time to sit on her butt eating bon bons. So ? Stain removal skills aren't so essential , after all, to personal wellbeing and prosperity of the nation:)
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (13 April 2012):
 So we went from you being angry she didn't know how to sew a button on to all women are woefully neglectful of keeping up their domestic duties and acquiring a skill base just because it's a traditionally female role? Ah.
Right. Vent away.
I'm pretty sure most of the men who are married to that set of wives I mention, the editor, the lawyer, the doctor, the pharmacist, the HR representative, the accountant, the teacher, the personal trainer, the entrepreneur, the caterer, the housewife, the mother, the retiree, and the realtor are happy to have wives who have developed skills other than sewing and cleaning.
You clearly are not.
"This is where gender roles do matter. There is not a lot of benefit in couples having duplicate skills." Don't most people go through at least part of their life living on their own? Gender roles mean nothing when you are the only one in the household. That is, unless you take your laundry and your mending home to Mom.
You are unhappy that your wife isn't good at domestic tasks. Ah well, all you can do is try not to lose buttons or create too much mess. If you come up with an amazing way to make those mundane household tasks really interesting and fun, like Martha Stewart managed to do, maybe you can make some money. Good luck re-engineering them!
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (13 April 2012):
Oh Cerberus, I want to live in your house. It sounds lovely to just press a button and have the floors automatically washed...
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (13 April 2012):
"I don't expect my wife to sew a button more than twice a year either, but it is shocking that she has no idea how to do that."
OP, why don't you sew your own buttons on? why is that women's work? My partner knows how to cook a bit... so do I we eat take out 3 out of 4 nights...just too busy and tired to cook and we like different things...
How often do you go out and bag dinner for the family... bring it home, dress it, smoke it and store it? Do you know how to provide for your family? To build the home, get the food, fend off the attackers??
I know how to sew a button on. I don't want to be bothered. It goes to the seamstress at the dry cleaner when I drop the cleaning off. I am sure my mother and grandmother spin in their graves.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): If you feel overwhelmed by responsibilities at home. Then you need to speak to your wife about it. Comparing notes with your male friends is reinforcing your feelings of indignation but it isnt really helping you. Talk to your wife and explain that her lack of effort in some areas is really starting to bother you.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (13 April 2012):
Hopefully, they are acquiring the skills to get themselves decently paid jobs, and be able to afford hiring somebody for cleaning !
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012):
I am the OP:
Good discussion. I suppose men are also losing valuable skills.
However, I am not comparing how much *work* is done. I am comparing which skills (and how many) are learned. I might only change a tire once a year, but I have that skill.
I don't expect my wife to sew a button more than twice a year either, but it is shocking that she has no idea how to do that.
What is frustrating is that men are helping out more and more in the home as women have taken jobs, but yet women seem to fall back on the "I have job" crutch. Well, men have had a job since when. Turnabout is fair play.
I think it is sad that I can take better care of my wife's lingerie than she can. As I said, my wife is an excellent cook, but many of my coworkers wives can barely microwave a dinner. My sister-in-law can screw up spaghetti.
I am not saying women need to slave over me. What I am saying is that they don't have the skills even for their own benefit.
Are we really becoming a society where we pay someone to do everything for us while complaining that we work so many hours? To me it seems the pendulum has shifted so far that many women cannot even do basic tasks and do not WANT to because they see those as sexist.
My own wife seems overwhelmed with domestic life balanced with her part-time work. (We have no kids.) Welcome to the world of men. Women wanted this and now as men are straining to do "their fair share" women are contributing less - and not in absolute terms, but in capabilities. I don't need my wife to change the oil. I can do that. I need her to sew a button on. For those who say "Sew your own damn button on" I say "Okay, so then who sews your OWN buttons on? Me?"
This is where gender roles do matter. There is not a lot of benefit in couples having duplicate skills.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): "Are women losing skills in roles they traditionally did like cooking and housekeeping? If so, what skills are they gaining instead?"
They're replacing time spent doing cooking and housecleaning, with time spent mowing the lawn, fixing things around the house, earning money outside the home.
Women also tend to do most of the child raising, which is a big time consumer. Nowadays parents spend way more time with their kids than in past generations because that is now the norm. in the past, family life didn't revolve around the children to the extent that it does now. Probably that's why women are not spending as much time on housekeeping.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): NONE of my male friends (who are white collar professionals) can do or are good at any of these traditionally male duties:1. car repairs2. home repairs3. Building their own home (I don't know anyone who actually built their own house with their own hands)4. hand to hand combat - hey, it's the man's job to protect the family, right? how can you protect your wife and kids if you don't even know how to box or wrestle or (as is in vogue these days) mixed martial artsso yeah, men are losing their traditional male skills too. probably you are too. Men are also getting out of shape. I'm sure "traditional" men are in good physical shape because of all the physical activity they have to do all day long - hunting for food, working the farm or back breaking labor... nowadays men get flabby around the middle because they sit in front of a computer all day and night. Shouldn't women want "traditional" men who are physically fit and strong to take care of them?
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (13 April 2012):
 It's true women are losing skills. In parenting more energy is focused on academics and extra curricula activities. Even when my mom (born 1948) grew up she had two maids. Your friends are going to agree with you, they are not going to tell you that their wives are better than yours. Still don't make it a habit to complain about your wife in front of others. Your wife never learned how to do these things but that doesn't mean she can't learn it right away. I think Martha Stewart is a good guidance for every woman in the modern world. I encourage women to learn womenly skills before they get married even if they never learned how to do it.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 April 2012): I feel the same way about men losing their skills but a good marriage isn't dependent on that. Used to be men knew how to fix everything around the house, chop wood, fix cars, and landscape. On top of losing those skills, they now require a double income to support the family so we not only have to raise kids but work too. With no fault divorce being the norm and millions of men abandoning their families for greener pasteurs, it's no wonder this generation of women picked up college and careers because cooking and sewing don't make ends meet!!
I'm happily married by the way and both my husband and I hold graduate degrees. It's a good thing my husband is the breadwinner (I earn not even 1/4 what he does) so we have a maid service and pay to get everything fixed because he is not a jack of all trades, that's for sure.
We cook and meal plan together. I also don't focus on his inadequacies like not having a clue about how to fix things. Our priority is keeping each other happy, a healthy sex life, quality time and a healthy marriage. Cleaning all evening, slaving over a stove nightly, and paying high margins on appliance contractors is a waste and often more expensive then just buying a new whatever and reduces your quality time together. You won't have time to keep yourself in good shape, which will lead to costly medical problems later on, if most of your free time is spent figuring out how to maintain the whole house and then spending the time doing it. It's just not an efficient use of time or resources.
Investing in quality time with your spouse, doing the things you enjoy, is the very best investment emotionally, healthwise, and financially you will ever make. These things don't cost you money. Hire a maid and keep appliances up to date to reduce the stress in your life and improve your marriage. Work out together several times a week to optimize your health, reduce stress, and increase endorphins.
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female
reader, kirra07 +, writes (13 April 2012):
I agree with some of the other posters who are saying that this is happening with men too. I sort of expected/hoped that I would find a man that could:
- tinker with the car (fix it, do own oil changes + tire changes, etc)
- house renovations (dry wall, flooring, plumbing, some basic electrical)
- computer savvy (know how to do a backup, reinstall windows, etc etc.)
But sadly, I didn't marry a guy that can do any of those things. I might have more experience in the house renos and computer stuff than he does. And I didn't date guys that could do most of that stuff. There was the odd one that could do 1 or 2. But nowadays they bring the computer in or buy a new one, they hire people to do the house renos and car repairs/diagnostics. So the only "traditional manly role" that I see men doing regularly is the heavy lifting.....
But I agree that it's a shame that all these skills are being lost. I think it'd be valuable if I knew how to knit or bake more stuff or make dumplings/pasta/etc from scratch. And you're right, it's not really being replaced by useful things. I think society is getting lazier.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): The simple answer is convenience OP. More and more men and women will pay for others to do all that for them. So they go from having their parents do their laundry to spending money in the Laundromat when they move out. Their parents doing the cooking to eating ready-made meals.
I share chores with my girlfriend, although each do different tasks.
We both value traditional skills but only as far as good living is concerned and only when there isn't a better solution. I'm a bit of a gadget freak so we have appliances that take the hassle out of almost every chore, we even have automatic floor washing, lawn-mowing and vacuum robots. We have a home control system set up so we can activate every appliance from anywhere we want using our phones.
We basically have an automatic set up at home that takes the hassle out of or does all our chores completely for us and all for the less than the price of a cheap car.
Who needs a "traditional woman" when you can have robots that can do the boring repetitive tasks?
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female
reader, Aliceinunderland  +, writes (12 April 2012):
 Why do you say they are traditionally women's roles? What about men that live alone? Do they just die because there is no woman around? Surely it doesn't matter who does the jobs as long as they get done? I'm a woman, and I dare not let my dad do too much DIY, you want to know why? Because even though it's "a mans role" to do the handiwork, I'm much better at it than he is. There is no room for gender roles in the house anymore. It should be a joint effort.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (12 April 2012):
Continuing the list of things now available that disposes of the "traditional" roles:
Kinder Gardens
Car Service
Shopping Malls
Pre-made foods
Take-away
Swiffer
Laundry machines
Dish washers
Higher Education for both genders
PS. mowing the lawn might be the "man" part, but all the rest of the gardening is still considered the woman's job... Who waters the plants for example? And they need to have water more often than the lawn needs mowing. Actually last year I mowed the lawn, come to think of it...
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): How on earth can we always be in the kitchen cooking and baking when we're supposed to stay SKINNY for our men??
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): Let's not forget the Beauty Mandate we are killing ourselves trying to keep up with for our men.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (12 April 2012):
We are ALL losing these skills.
I don't have a single husband in my past that was handy with a hammer or screwdriver.
I hate cleaning and laundry but so does my partner.
Traditional roles have changed for men and women
we now have companies to
clean
do laundry
fix cars
mow lawns
paint walls
fix household issues
cook
and anything else we as humans don't like to do on a regular basis.
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female
reader, Alex242 +, writes (12 April 2012):
I do not have many 'traditional' female skills, however I do have many traditional 'male' skills. I hate cooking, dishes, folding clothes, ect., but I mow, fix things, fix the car, program/install electronics, handyman stuff, things like that. I was raised by my father; this is what I learnt, and am happy doing.
How can one impart 'Old Wives' Tales/Wisdom' if none were imparted? A great deal of a whole generation had working/absent mums, so didn't get taught 'traditional' female duties.
My husband loves to cook and bake, so why not let him? He also irons, and does dishes, as he wants them doing a certain way.
I do 99% of childcare, though.
I say no matter who does what, the chores should be shared.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (12 April 2012):
"Are women losing skills in roles they traditionally did like cooking and housekeeping? If so, what skills are they gaining instead?"
I understand what you are getting at, but really, this is a silly question. It sort of inclines that women are born with certain "skills" that men are not born with, or that all women are born with the same skills.
I am taken it for granted that you do know the difference between learned behaviour and natural behaviour? These "skills" you are talking about are LEARNED, not something you actually are born to be skillful at. Not any more than men are, anyway.
So your real question isn't if women are losing their skills... Your real question is "why are women no longer taught to be good housewives"? And I think you know the answer to that question yourself.
Your question brings up another point I'd like to make though. You think men are taking over traditional female roles just because you vacuum and cook your own food for a change? There are tons of things that are "traditionally" the woman's role, and the majority of the time men do not even know that we do these chores, let alone understand how time-consuming it is. You think changing oil in the car, and mowing the lawn, somehow equals baby-care in terms of time and energy? In many cases these differences in how much time and energy one task takes is hugely misunderstood. The men sit and think they do just as much as the women, when in reality most of the time they aren't. Most of the time they just barely begin to catch up.
What are we learning instead of being housewives? I guess the exact same as you men are learning. For the record I had the oil changed at my own car just two months ago, I changed the front light (not just the bulb, the entire thing), I pay all my own bills, I take care of my house, I study and I work. Compare that to .. say.. a male friend of mine who makes about the same every month as me, but doesn't study at the same time, doesn't know how to cook his own meals doesn't make his bed nearly as often as he should etc. Sure, he helps me change the tires on my car, but I think that all in all I have him beat by far.
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female
reader, pinktopaz +, writes (12 April 2012):
I kind of blame parents--mine really didn't teach me anything. I think my dad did more than my mom. I can mow a lawn but I can't iron for crap! My mom thought it was easier if the kids just kept out of the kitchen and out of her way, hence why me and my two other sisters really have no idea how to cook. I learned to sew from a home economics class--but those classes are dwindling away because I guess they're not considered important anymore.
Besides the aforementioned, it's also up to the person as they become an adult to learn some things on their own. You also need to remember that some people don't pay as close attention to things as maybe you do (like the vacuum) or are too lazy to care about wrinkles. I know men that take their laundry out of the dryer and just leave it there to get wrinkled in a pile on their floor. I start folding immediately because I happen to hate wrinkles.
I also don't think women have as much time as they used to. I know some that are housewives, but a lot of women are working full time and don't have the time or the energy to cook a full meal and then do mundane chores. Some women are also lazier than others. I also think men compare their significant others to their mothers. When I lived with my boyfriend, he complained about how I did the laundry, how I folded etc. Well he got to start doing his own laundry because if he's THAT picky, then he can just do it himself (and I fold pretty nice).
Final note, you don't realize how much women actually do. I know MANY women that complain that their husbands don't do anything. How often is a woman expected to do chores (cook and clean)? Almost daily. Take care of the children? All day, everyday. Now, how often do you have to work on the car? Not that often. How often do you need to do yard work? Maybe once a week. How often do you need to change a battery for something? A few times a year. And all 3 of those things, usually just gets taken to the mechanic or there's a gardner.
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female
reader, Echo85 +, writes (12 April 2012):
 I find that I agree with you. It's great that women can get any job they want now and aren't as dicriminated against, but the old ways shouldn't be completely lost.
If men weren't chivalrous then we would be the first to say that it's not like the old days, but as a man you could argue that that is outdated.
I love working, but equally love 'keeping house', my partner does split the housework with me, but just as I wouldn't want to get my hands dirty changinng a tire, I wouldn't expect him to clean the oven.
I think we have lost alot of important skills but not gained much back in truth.
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female
reader, Foot-In-My-Mouth  +, writes (12 April 2012):
 I'm sort of irritated with this trend of saying "I'm not sexist" and then going on a sexist rant, just like people make offensive racial jokes but preface it by saying, "I'm not racist but...". You are what your actions and thoughts say you are...disclaimers don't conceal that!
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female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (12 April 2012):
 I agree with you, but I also have to throw this in - a lot of men are also losing their skills in 'traditional' male roles.
My boyfriend has no idea how to do DIY, he knows very little about cars and probably would only mow the lawn if he really had to. My dad (aged 56) is even worse, he cannot even hang a picture on the wall! My mum has to do all DIY or hire someone in to do it, he is fully incapable of doing anything that a man traditionally would do. With the exception of mowing the lawn and washing the car maybe.
I personally am 24, and I love baking cakes, am happy to give the house a good clean (perhaps I dont clean my oven as often as I should but the stove is always clean!), I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to ironing, I can cook pretty much anything I attempt, I can sew buttons and do minor repairs, I can get stains out....cant do a man's tie though, one thing no-one has ever shown me!
So I dont think it is 'all' women that are losing their skills, but admittedly I guess I am a dying breed. I have a great career and it keeps me very busy, so I guess I dont clean and look after the house as much as my mum does (she works part time monday-friday). None of my friends can do half of what I do - none of them can bake, cook, and they can just about clean but their partners help them out a lot in that department.
I think the reason is because many women started going out to work after the end of the second world war, this trend increased so more and more women were working and it became the norm in the 80's. Because of that, mums didnt have as much time to keep the house the way it should be, and they definitely didnt have the time to show their kids how to bake a cake or sew a button.
I was one of the fortunate ones whose mum did show me everything I know now, but I was lucky enough to have a mum that works part time.
Another part of the problem is that with career women who go on to have kids, they have more money so they can afford to pay for these kinds of chores to be done - maids, ironing services, dry cleaning etc so they dont have to do it anymore, and the kids never see mum doing it either so they dont learn.
I know my opinion is probably going to anger most women, but I do believe we should go back to a time where we look after our men better (note I dont use the word 'serve' - that is totally wrong!), because us girls still want men to be romantic, chivalrous etc yet many women cant do a thing for their man apart from nag and whinge about the lack of romance.
Gender roles have become so blurred and it is very mixed up, I dont think there is a way back unfortunately. Women are under a lot of pressure to be all things to all people (wife, friend, mother, housekeeper, sometimes even father!) and men are often left not really knowing what their role is anymore. Because some women are so stretched with their time and resources they dont do such a great job at everything, but that is because we are expected to do so much.
Take my boyfriend for example - we are moving in together in 2 weeks time. His mum works part time and she is a complete clean freak, her house is spotless and cleans daily. I however work 38-45 hour weeks and have a very stressful job, and I clean my house thoroughly once a week on a saturday, and the rest of the week I'll just tidy up as I go along and maybe wipe the surfaces in the kitchen if I need to. The other day when we were at his parent's house he says to me 'this is how clean I want you to keep the house' - he was joking around when he said this but I know deep down he actually means it, after all most men want a girlfriend to take over from their mothers!
I am never going to keep a house to his mum's standards because I simply dont have the time, and I'm not going to bust my ass staying up late everynight even though I've done a full days work to then clean once I'm home. He wont be happy about it - but he will get used to it (I hope!). Another part of the problem in my case is that I earn more than my boyfriend, and work more hours, yet I'm still expected to do pretty much everything you would deem a 'traditional female' role. I dont mind doing most of it, generally because I do a better job than him so it would be a waste of his effort doing housework because I'd only go and do it again!
I guess at the end of the day there are some women like me who are more traditional, and some women like your wife who have not had those skills passed on from her mother. At least she can cook though, that is more than a lot of women can do!
If you are unahppy with the amount of work you are doing then you should talk to her, dont criticise her work but explain you feel you have too much on your plate and want to look into getting some help - whether this is from her, or maybe getting a cleaner in etc to help you both. Some women just are not the traditional housewife type, you will have known that before you married her so it was your choice to marry someone like this. If she cant do it and your overwhelmed, get some outside help to do it for you. That is probably the easiest way!
I hope this helps and good luck!
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): The point is women are far more valuable and have much more of a purpose in life that just hoovering, cooking, washing up etc... Believe it or not they have brains and quite often higher paid positions that their partners.
It's about time more men got a grip and learnt how to help around the house. If you work the same hours then you split the chores in the house. Now of one partner is home more (not always the woman though!) then that person should perhaps keep things around the home running smoothly it's still the responsibility of both people to look after the home. If my boyfriend thought I was going to cook for him every night and iron his socks then I'd certainly tell him what I thought!
Luckily he isn't crippled by age old stereotypes and saw how downtrodden his own mother was because his father expected all things done and saw for himself how it can kill a relationship.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): I am in my 20s and I agree with the O.P.
Its not like I expected a slave. In fact I don't think I had any "expectations". I just thought it was normal for grownups to live alone and be able to take care of themselves for the most part.
But now I have lived with 4 girlfriends, none of whom did all the basics for herself before I met her. Cook, clean, laundry, etc. I have been doing it all myself since I was a young teen. I taught all of them at least some things that my parents made me do for myself before I was in high school. I don't know how these girls reached adulthood without having to do this stuff.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (12 April 2012):
She's not interested in cleaning house. Are you? Do you like doing repetitive tasks?
If you know how to do these things, and are the one interested in getting them done, it seems logical that you be the one to do them. If you are not able to do them, then you have to accept that your wife will do them her way. It may not be perfect but at least she is putting in the effort.
My perception of this is quite different. I see the women in my circles work very hard to keep a nice house, if they do not work. The women who do work also try to keep a nice house but they may need outside help as there aren't enough hours in the day to do laundry for 4 people, clean the house, walk the dog, AND put in 8 hour days. They are frustrated when their kids or dogs or even husbands track in muddy footprints without noticing, or when their husbands put their wool sweaters into the regular wash and then into the dryer. (That happens a bit too often. You'd think the men would have enough brains to read the little labels on the clothing or at least recognize that they shouldn't attempt the laundry if they aren't willing to put in the minimum effort of sorting it. Sigh. Men. So clueless about the laundry.)
What you seem to be complaining about is that it's hard to get good help these days. The old-fashioned route of marrying it didn't work, as you didn't select well, so you'll just have to hire someone to do it for you.
As for your friends, no doubt if you ask their wives, they'll have some lovely things to complain about in their husbands.
I think what you are experiencing is that women get to decide what they want to do, when in the past, they were expected to serve men, as you put it. Be the scullery maid, the cook, the laundry sorter, the ironer, the entire staff of a large house. Have you ever spent an entire month doing all those things for a small or even large family? It's drudgery! Especially when you have someone looking over your shoulder, sniffing that "you aren't doing that right," then flouncing off in a huff that "things just aren't the way they used to be! These people do not know their place! Which is in the kitchen after doing the laundry and vacuuming the house! The gall! The sheer and utter gall!"
'Valuable skills.' Hm. I live near an editor, a lawyer, a doctor, a pharmacist, an HR representative, an accountant, a teacher, a personal trainer, an entrepreneur, a caterer, a housewife, a mother, a retiree, a realtor, just to name a few of the careers we have here. I think they all have very valuable skills. Just because a few of them don't like vacuuming doesn't mean they've lost a critical part of their personal growth. In fact, I'd say, they bring more to the table because they are doing what they WANT. They get to express themselves as whatever they choose, bravo.
The rest, as they say, is housekeeping.
You'll forgive me for rolling my eyebrows.
'Valuable skills.' HA! ahahhahaha!
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): Sadly, her parents did not teach her life skills...and I am seeing more and more of this from both boys and girls...there is a whole lot of lazy parenting and kids are not learning how to do anything for themselves, the parents are doing everything for them...so when they go out into the real grown up world, they are so helpless and way to dependent....case in point.
I guess you can teach her and you can both learn things together....
Keep this in the back of your mind if you ever decide to have children....teach your children life skills, responsibility and to grow up to be independent, well rounded, educated, contributing members of society...your future daughter/son in law will thank you for it :-)
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (12 April 2012):
 "I also feel like somehow women are losing valuable skills they once had in favor of... I am not sure what."
I think it's called the exact same things men learn in favor of housekeeping, like the important things that society actually values.
"It's not like my wife is mowing the lawn or changing the battery on the car."
Oh come on now. Seriously? What you describe as "women's chores" have to be done daily or weekly. You change a car battery like twice a decade. That does not count as a chore.
Maybe your household is the exception. But in the majority of the partnered/married US women still do way housework than men (about 2x as much), and way more childcare. When I read your question I don't feel sorry for you, I hear a guy complaining that he was taught when he got married he would get a domestic servant but his wife had better things to do. The idea that there are "women's roles" is a bunch of horsepucky. In the traditional sense, women's roles wind up being ALL the most repetitive unrewarding tasks, while men's "chores" wind up being the very occasional, more rewarding task. Sorry but fixing the occasional car problem or broken whatever is not even close to equivalent to doing dishes, scrubbing toilets, doing laundry, cooking, etc...
From your question, you claim that your wife does some of the chores still (like cooking and vacuuming), but she just isn't doing them as well as you'd like and that you actually have to do some of the chores. I'm not really convinced that it's actually you and all your friends who are doing everything given how much you seem to believe that most chores are women's chores and that men should stick to the easy rewarding tasks.
Keep track of how much time each of you spends doing the repetitive mind-numbing chores each week (P.S. seasonal things or fixing things don't really count). If it's truly uneven, sit down and write out a schedule where you divide things evenly. If it's simply that you're expected to do "women's chores" and that makes you cringe, you need to get over it.
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female
reader, oldbag +, writes (12 April 2012):
 I agree the women are not replacing 'traditional' roles/skills but then for generations women did not have to go out to work, they looked after the kids and the home.Now they go out to work and raise kids too
If both partners work then all chores should be split 50/50, so if you do the washing your wife should cut the grass. only fair .
I dont know many women that are useless, they learnt off their mothers , so they probably choose to do as little as possible in the home. Which to me is just bone idle..
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 April 2012): There are no such thing as gender roles. Moms have come out of the kitchen and laundry room to pursue her dreams. Moms work, take pick up kids from school, sports practice, or instrument rehearsal. Moms grocery shop and then have to cook the food. Moms pick out the furniture and clothing and still have to clean it. Do you teach your female daughters to stay away from electronics bc u don't want them engineers. Or stay away from video games bc you don't want them graphic designers. Or stay away from bugs and animals bc you don't want them a biologist like me. Gender roles are silly and crippling. For generations wives have been too selfless. If gender roles still existed at the capacity as they once did women couldn't be mechanics. And women would be forced to panic when the car run out of gas. Gender roles forces you to not do/learn certain task because of the gender associated with it. It forces one to give up independence and become dependant. If you feel overwhelmed, then you really should talk with your wife about your feelings. Posting here solves nothing, only gives you more bs to insult your wife with. Talk to her, and best wishes.
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