A
male
age
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anonymous
writes:I wonder why ladies, I never hear a woman, talk about them dumping a nice guy, on here.I here all the time,How they get hurt, by the guy who treated them bad. It does happen all the time, a guy treats a woman fantastic. Then a woman, breaks their hearts, for a guy, that's a ass hole, then they say, why can't I meet a good guy?So tell me, girls, why do girls do it to the guys who treat them like an angel?I know it happens to women too , but us guys want to know, how can you switch off your feelings like a light switch.Guys have hearts too, like the old saying, the ones you want, don't want you, an the ones that want you, you don't want.We nice guys on here want to know, how a woman can be so cold hearted, to the guy who really loves them for being, they thought, the love of their life Reply to this Question
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 March 2016): The 2014 study may not prove much. But if it didn't exist then we would be debating even what it does prove. It is way too difficult to get ANY admissions from women that "nice guys" have ANYTHING valid to complain about. How does a man make a pass at a woman without "being too responsive?" That basically says he should act friendly and that's it. Women only respond sexually to a friendly overture if they are interested in the man already. So if you read between the lines here, the point is "men will succeed better with women if they aren't sexually interested". That translates to "if women want the man more than he wants her".See where all this is really pointing? The "right" way to make a pass at a woman is for her to already be interested in you, and then you act personable but don't act very interested in her. THIS WILL NEVER WORK FOR ABOUT 80% OF MEN.
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (4 March 2016):
 It is rather interesting that often the men who self-identify as "nice" seem to struggle so much with grasping the nuances of women's selection criteria. I think it's the Goldilocks problem. You know: this bed is too hard, this bed is too soft, this bed is just right; this porridge is too hot, this porridge is too cold, this porridge is just right type of thing.
For the OP, I believe there were 2 instances in which you were not accepted as the romantic partner of women you'd selected as a potential mate. In the one case, she was in an abusive relationship, left it, then went back to her abuser. A common phenomenon, and one that is difficult for those of us who have not fallen victim to an abuser to understand. I would suggest that you accept that she was damaged emotionally by years of abuse and wasn't capable of accepting the form of affection you wished to give her. So in that case, it's not you, it's her. Love doesn't conquer all, alas.
In the other case, it was a new relationship, and in one incident you reported, the woman in question didn't react in the way you expected to a rose petal dance. She didn't gather up the rose petals and save them for posterity. She disappointed you, obviously, and you let that show to her. She withdrew from the courtship as she felt you were coming on much too strong.
So you have a sample of 2 women, one a victim of abuse, the other with a strong enough ego that she didn't want to be manipulated into demonstrating romantic gestures she didn't feel.
So blaming all women for the reactions of these two is a bit, well, over the top. A case of too hard or too soft, too hot or too cold. Someone will find it just right, but you will have to keep looking if you are unwilling to accept that your approach may be too full on for most women.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (4 March 2016):
 Male anon, I know the study you mention, but the way you summarize it ; " Men like nice girls, women do not like nice guys " is oversimplistic and quite misleading ( not your fault. Most magazines and newspaper journalists did exactly the same and worse ).
First of all, as you remember, it is more a suggestion , an experiment than a research , and it is far from conclusive or even indicative . The sample was too small and too homogenous for that ( 56 men and 56 women all from the same college in Israel ). 112 people ? I have more in my address book !( and I am not much of a social butterfly,too ! )
Second , the study was not about " nice " and not about " like " as a partner.
The idea was to see it "responsiveness " fosters or increases SEXUAL attraction.
Responsiveness is not equivalent to being nice , it may be at most a small part of it. The researchers defined what they call responsiveness in long and difficult terms, but I'll summarize drastically myself in layman terms , i.e. , basically- eager to please and eager to close the deal.
A responsive person would be ,for instance, one who pays many compliments and is very grateful for those he/ she receives, who signals very clearly how gratified he/ she is by having your attention on him / her, who strives with their beahaviour to validate your positive self image or dispel a negative one..... in short, somebody who fusses a lot about you.
Not surprisingly IMO :), apparently men dig that ( at least, the 56 college guys did ). A plain Jane who shows a lot of enthusiasm, and strokes the man's ego the right way, and dances a lot of attendance around him, will raise her level of sexual desirability and have excellent chances to bag her prey.
Does it work the same with women ? Not so much .
SLIGHTLY over half of the women in the study were unaffected by the exhibition of responsive traits in terms of sexual attraction. (Which means, though, that slightly less than half were ). So... more or less the jury is still out on this.
I do not find these findings surprising. Between tryng hard and tryng too hard, there is often a very fine line, - and tryng too hard is not attractive. It's fake and reeks of desperation.
Another thing is that being nurturing and accomodating and submissive is, or is SEEN as, a feminine personality trait. So, while it is not surprising that males like feminine girls, - why women should like feminine guys ?!
Anyway, even if we should put any stock into these findings, which is debatable, the results pertain to the doimain of " sexual encounters ", not to those of lasting, healthy relationship.
If it were true that " bad boys " are sexier and hotter and make all women wet ( bah : ..to me that feels like another cliche ' )- still, bad boys do not have longer marriages, or stronger relationships, or happier families. They are not more loved or respected than " nice " guys, and they do not have better chances to avoid loneliness, betrayal or abandonement. ( There have been researches about that too ! )
In other words, bad guys may finish first in terms of scoring casual encounters , maybe ( again, personally I do not believe it, ... it would depends from so many variables, including age,status, self esteem and I.Q. of the women they meet.... ) but nice persons finish first in all the ways that count and have meaning :)
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female
reader, LJCX  +, writes (4 March 2016):
 Janniepeg has hit the nail on the head with this, it's all about testosterone.
The fact of the matter is that females are attracted to testosterone and pheromones. In other words we can't help who we are attracted to, it all comes down to biology and the way we are designed. High testosterone can make men aggressive, so unfortunately we are attracted to something that has an aggressive side effect.
I'm sure you have a type, you don't consciously make the decision to have a preference to certain things, it's something your brain just decides for you. It doesn't mean that women are in denial about anything it just means that people are attracted to whatever their bodies and minds tell them to be attracted to.
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (3 March 2016):
 "dancing, shopping, movies, nice places to eat , taking walks holding hands,open car doors ,"
These things don't invoke a woman's passion, or make a pussy wet. They just ensure that a woman is respected and well taken care of. Women are attracted to men with high levels of testosterone. Yes, the hormone that makes men assholes. You would find that men who are goody two shoes, who like to take care of the home and children have lower levels of testosterone.
When women complain why they can't find a good man, they are saying how come super hot guys with high testosterone can't be loving, caring and loyal. I guess they don't consider homely men as real men. Just a being, with a penis, who does nice things. He's just a person who she settles for after she learns that you can't have the cake and eat it too.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 March 2016): NO!!! "Women want a man who is more than just nice" does NOT explain the findings of the 2014 study published in the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin! Go look it up for yourself. It's not a huge 10-year study intended to write the last word on the topic, or anything. It's just a minor exercise in testing these ideas. Nothing airtight and definitive. There is room for challenging it, as with most research.But there is so much denial from women about this issue that research is needed. Men like me have to resort to quoting research just to support common sense ideas.
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (3 March 2016):
OP, I did not say you are boring, I don't know you and for all I know you may be a barrel of laughs and a joy to be around.
I was simply making a point, that no woman in her right mind is turned off or repelled because a man is " nice ". She will be repelled because the man is nice AND also something else which she dislikes. It's the other flaw that she does not want, not the nice part. Flaw to which in most cases the "nice guy " is totally oblivious, or in denial about,- or he'll dismiss its relevance because he thinks ( like you ? ) : Hey, I am "nice ", that warrants me gratitude, attention and affection no matter what.
NO , it does not.
Being " nice " is normal ! Smart women would not date anyone who is not nice . Just, there's got to be more than JUST nice.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 March 2016): In 2014 a couple of colleges did a study on this very topic.
Results:
Men like nice women.
Women don't like nice men.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (2 March 2016): Hi, am the writer, it's funny on here,when a woman writes about the same thing as a guy writes,you women feel sorry for the woman ,but you tell the guy he is wrong ,let's see am I boring, I like going out dancing, shopping, movies, nice places to eat , taking walks holding hands,open car doors , romantic, I only give suggestions,in the last five years, I've broken my heart two times, I just walk away, so a month ago,I didn't just walk away, I told her what I felt,it felt good, I've been letting them off the hook to easy,it's funny all the women I've been with, I act like I don't care an they love me,treat like an angle they F you over.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (2 March 2016): The "truth that boys need to be told" is that the majority of young girls don't respond to good treatment in the same way boys do. Research even says it. Its not about bashing girls. Its about being honest with boys for a change. The wrong ideas make life harder for both sexes when the indirect effects are considered. The adult population of nice guys is not like the 15-20yo nice guy population. Teenage nice guys with social skills and/or some alpha in them have all quit being nice by their 20s. (IT WASN'T WORKING and they learned!)The nice guys at 32yo are mostly guys unable or unwilling to adapt for one reason or another. They kept failing and got more bitter and impatient by the year. They are like women who have kept dating assholes for 15 years and become burned out on all men.
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (2 March 2016):
Male anon : the truth about what ? Which truth about women did you want to be told at your mother knee's ?...
The truth is simply this :
that both males and females are humans, and humans some times ( but not always ,of course ) will make wrong dating choices, or wrong judgement calls; or will have ,for a time, priorities that later on will change.
So what ? What's the big dramatic deal ?
If I see a drunken frat boy, should I decide to never go consult a doctor or a lawyer in my life, because doctors and lawyers must all be obnoxious rude hedonistic bastards ?...
No. Frat boys too, in general, are just going through a phase , and in general they will grow up to be good citizens and responsible, reliable professionals .
Of course I am free to decide if I want to socialize / have sex with drunken frat boys,... or if I'll give them a miss for the time being - until they change into their more mature, shenanigan-free version.
You too do not HAVE to put up with " women who love bad boys " ( which are anyway many,many less than misoginistic cliches would want you to believe ). If you chance into someone who seems to prefer bad boys, or to look precisely for a bad boy, - then you can stay away from her, and at the end of the day it will be no sacrifice, since you would be clearly mismatched. Problem solved.
As for " being a nice guy does more harm than good ".... I really have no clue what you are going on about. Yes, I said and I confirm that just being "nice" is NORMAL- nothing which would get you special accolades, from any intelligent , self confident woman. But from this to actually do you harm... I can't figure out a practical example of how that could be.
Of course , if you are nice, and deadly boring- that will do you no good, and possibly some harm, - but it would be the " deadly boring " part to do you harm, not the "nice" one. Ditto for " nice and sickeningly clingy ", " nice and
totally socially awkward "..... and any other combination of nice, with the negative traits that alas often seem to accompany our self styled, self proclaimed " nice guys ": But it's the negative traits that are a downer, - not the "being nice " !
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (2 March 2016): I don't believe this myth about women liking a bad boy, I don't like a bad boy and I would never set out to get one of them.This question reminds me of when I joined a dating site and went out for an evening with somebody who asked me for a date. He was a nice person, he was pleasant to talk to and generally I had a good evening but there was no spark or chemistry. When I declined to go on another date he went in to a tirade about how women never want a nice guy. He was obviously annoyed that women did this to him all of the time. I barely knew him and the way he went off on one just made me realise.....no he wasn't all that nice!The majority of people in the world are nice when they are single, most people I know are pleasant and I get on with them. But when you get in to a long term relationship sides of your personality come out that you never knew you had. When you are that close to another human being they bear the brunt of all your bad days, no matter how hard people try they can still get irritated and take it all out on the person closest to them. If they started off as a wonderful, nice, caring person at the start of a relationship it's only human nature that one day they'll behave like a fool and hurt their partner. Sometimes people can't help that, I'm sure even though you are nice you've done something in the past that could be considered hurtful.Like the guy that I met who thought he was incredibly nice he got annoyed and let me know all about it.People can end relationships for all sorts of reasons, you aren't going to stay with a person forever just because of nice. Nice is such a boring word, when I picture the man I want to be with forever he has to have more to him than that.Women would never stay with a guy who started off as an ass hole from the first date, we aren't that stupid! The ass hole side comes out after a while and by then you may have fallen for the many good things they have about them. Even though you wonder why women don't want a nice guy with you I'm wondering if you are picking the wrong women to begin with. Certain people are attracted to downright crappy men but maybe you are attracted to downright crappy women who take advantage of you and then dump you for somebody else.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 March 2016):
Men are not frustrated because being a nice guy isn't enough. We are frustrated because many times it does more harm than good.
Crucial difference.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 March 2016): "Nice guys" are just normal guys. Big deal! Majority of guys are "nice" and being "nice" is only the BASE requirement. If you don't have anything more to offer than being "nice" then of course women will be uninterested. Instead of blaming/generalizing women for your failures in love, take a look at YOURSELF and ask yourself what you have to offer other than being "nice" and IMPROVE yourself to be dateable and attractive.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 March 2016): "Nice guys" are just normal guys. Big deal! Majority of guys are "nice" and being "nice" is only the BASE requirement. If you don't have anything more to offer than being "nice" then of course women will be uninterested. Instead of blaming/generalizing women for your failures in love, take a look at YOURSELF and ask yourself what you have to offer other than being "nice" and IMPROVE yourself to be dateable and attractive.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 March 2016): If women's "bad boy phase" is normal, then why isn't it normal to tell boys the truth about it from a young age?
Everyone on both sides is harmed by this lie in the long run.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (29 February 2016): Thank you ivyblue, an am sixty
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (28 February 2016): Thank you ivyblue, an am sixty
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female
reader, Ciar +, writes (28 February 2016):
 Instead of these sweeping open ended questions that are impossible to answer (and are really quite silly anyway), why don't we narrow this down to YOUR issue.
I'm guessing your lady friend still hasn't spoken to you since your rose petal dance. Am I right?
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (28 February 2016):
Lots of interesting opinions. Mine is slightly different.
I say: because being a " nice guy " is nothing more that the bare minimum acceptable. It's no exceptional feat ; in fact, it is the "minimal wage " of dating. Nothing wrong with minimal wage, but possibly one wants something more.
So just being " nice " is not enough to warrant you authomatically that a woman will be , and stay, attracted or interested.
This, of course, if we give to " nice guy " ... the general meaning which is given to this words by many many DearCupid posters ( and guys IRL ) who complain that nice guys finish last.
I.e. : nice guy as someone who has a regular job and income, no prison record, does not do drugs, has good manners , is not violent, and he is not a known unrepentant womanizer ( or "pump and dump"er to copy from a DC poster her brilliant definition ).
So ? I mean, that's nice of course, but an intelligent self respecting emotionally mature woman would NOT take any less than this anyway.
( Yes, most women go through a
" bad guy " episode or a bad guy phase, even. This is just part of growing up , chronologically or spiritually, maturing and learning from life experiences. One learns what she does not want, to be able to pinpoint what she DOES really want. If you meet women who seem to be forever stuck in a bad guy phase- the best is just to stay away from them, because they've got issues ).
So, you have to be nice AND you've got to have something to offer beside your basic nicety. Maybe being interesting intellectually, maybe having a lovable personality, maybe just being sexy and passionate ,- it will depend from what every individual appreciates most.
But just being nice, as in being polite , not socially dangerous, and not a serial cheater.... well, sorry but they don't give out medals for that. It's just normal ! If you want to tell me that it is sad and lamentable how too many women will settle for LESS than the" minimal wage " of dating, I agree ; but give a look around , and you will realize ( in fact, it seems you have started seeing it put in practice already ) that many MORE women won't settle for JUST the very bare basics of any romantic relationship.
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female
reader, Abella +, writes (28 February 2016):
 rejection can be because if you do too much for a woman she may see you as too accomodating, with no spirit, and potentially boring and no challenge.
Trying too hard makes a person seem desperate. Having no hobbies suggests no life except for the things you do with the lady.
Dispell any thought that this could be so, by cultivating some agreeable hobbies that are appealing to you, but not a turn off to the women.
Remain informed about current affairs without being too strident.
If you follow a sport then do so without it consuming your life.
Some women even see guys who try to take over and DO too much as potentially controlling in the future.
Being too controlling can be the start of a rocky relationship,
Try to avoid meeting ladies in bars and clubs and places where a lot of alcohol is consumed.
Instead involve yourself in fulfilling activities that also give you a chance to share what kind of guy (they conclude) you are by the activities you do gravitate to.
Do NOT talk about previous women and any break ups you have suffered. It is a major turn off and makes a guy look as if he has not moved on. It also gives the impression you have not yet healed from that breakup, that you lack any outside interests - also a turn off.
a new lady in your life expects you to have already healed and already moved on before you recommence dating. She also wants to know all about you so that is when you slowly introduce her to the activities you choose to do outside of work. One by one. And not all at once.
Is there a volunteer group that achieves aims in your area? A community minded group that might be re-vegetating an area once the weather wams up.
A community garden where produce is grown and some overflow is sometimes shared with others. It is a great opportunity to get to know like-minded people - male and female.
Also remembered that a male participant may have a sister in your agegroup who is widowed or divorced and in your age group.
So continue to speak respectfully about women, even when in the company of all males.
Is there a large hospital nearby that recruits volunteers to assist by giving directions to out patients not sure to go? A big city hospital can have corridors that go on for miles. They need volunteers to help out patients trying to find the area they want. You are sure to meet kind and considerate ladies in groups like that.
Go where there are women and lots of them and go to take part in an activity as the aim. Not as a means to meeting women initially. Get to know the women first during several meetings to involve yourself in the activity be.
I will give you examples (for the guys).
Here is an example:
When the weather warms up find a heated pool that has an acqua robics class. You will have fun and the classes are 90% women and 10% or less men.
Join the girls after the class for coffee. Get to know them. Do NOT mention any past difficulties with women. Just listen carefully and add in your own comment from time to time. If there is a show or film coming up and a lady mentions (and it really is something affordable and appealing to you) then you could ask her later (not when other ladies are present) if you could attend together.
But first get to know the ladies. Try to recall their names for next time. Invariably they will be fit healthy ladies doing the class.
Another example:
I like cooking but I've not been to a cooking school but an unattached female friend joined up to attend one and complained that it was wall to wall women, many unattached like her.
So hint to men : join a cooking class. If one particular woman intrigues you then find out a little more.
Before the classes end get talking to her about cooking. Lead on to suggesting the two of you might be able to have a devise a meal to cook, using the skills learnt in class.
Maybe plan a meal together as a first date and have the dinner in your home or hers.
Versus : (for the girls) I joined a wood carving class just for fun. But I was amazed to find the class was full of interesting men and one woman (me). Some were unattached. I wasn't much help for the unattached guys as I am married. But I can thoroughly recommend it as a pastime for girls.
So basically put the past behind you.
Treat every day as a brand new day.
Get involved in your community and volunteer activities.
Do NOT talk about previous Gfs who let yoyou down.
Do NOT talk about previous unhappy relationship as it is a turn off.
Demonstrate that you are a good guy by your Actions, not your words. (see activities above for these Actions
Best Wishes for the future
regards
Abella
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A
female
reader, maverick494 +, writes (28 February 2016):
There are two types of people in the world. People who deal with setbacks by looking for someone else to blame it on and people who take responsibility for their own role (or lack thereof) in their situation. If you fall under the first category you're never going to have any control over your own happiness.
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female
reader, Ivyblue  +, writes (27 February 2016):
 Nothing like trying to tame the wild beast, wanting to be the 'one' that changed his wicked ways or sometimes,just sometimes, too nice can be too less of a challenge to feel there is a little guts in the relationship. Some women may find being treated like a glass vestal a little bit constricting. Personally, Im a little older and wiser and would take Mr. Nice guy any day.
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female
reader, jls022 +, writes (27 February 2016):
I hear this from men so often and I never understand the confusion to be honest. I would say a minimum of 80% of people I've ever met could be classified as 'nice'. It doesn't mean they are all a good match for me romantically. Meeting the right one is hard OP and it's much more complicated than 'nice' versus 'asshole'.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 February 2016): If you really did treat her like an angel then she'll regret it at some point in the future. If you were as nice as you say you were and even so she left you, most likely she did so for immature reasons, eg "better" looking guy, more "popular," etc. and if that is the case she'll soon find out that there is more to a relationship than superficial or immature reasons. And then she'll look back on you and regret it. Most likely when she gets dumped for the same reasons she dumped you. I don't know how old you are but a lot of times you meet someone who is great but the timing is bad. Maybe this girl isn't looking for anything too serious and the guy who appears to be the "asshole" is on the same page as her. Whereas the guy who proclaims to be the "love of her life" is moving way too fast and taking things way too seriously. Timing is everything. Much more so than whether you're the "good" guy or the "bad" guy.
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (27 February 2016):
 OP: Women like "bad boys". Those of us who are "nice guys" get our a$$e$ kicked to the curb, regularly.... and then, STILL act civilly towards those (girls) who treated us so badly. Who KNOWS why it happens????????
If I had a nickel for every girl who said to me: "(My name her)... you're a nice guy, .... but I'm dumping you".... I would be a very well-to-do guy.
There's no 'splaining wimmen!!!!
Good luck..
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (27 February 2016):
 Well, I wrote a long answer and it got eaten somehow, so I'll try and redo my answer.
My guess is that you are lashing out because you are hurting over a rejection. Romantic rejections suck. For men and woman. It's NEVER a good feeling.
My advice? First of all? Stop generalizing. Not ALL women are like this. And not a guy calling themselves "good guys" are actually DECENT human beings.
Even if someone actually is really nice, you may not want to date him/her for a number of reasons. You have nothing in common, you’re not attracted to him, you don’t really want to date anyone, and so on. It's pretty simple, sometimes the other person IS NOT a good match. It has little to do with "nice guy" versus "bad boy".
And you may not want to hear this... but accusing women of rejecting them just because they’re not jerks is a convenient way for them not to examine themselves. The whole notion that women WANT to be treated bad is such playground bullcrap.
There are plenty of men who respect the women they date, and they’re rarely found talking about how nice they are.
Treating a woman with decency, manners, as a fellow equal human being might get you a lot further than putting her up on a pedestal and "treating her like an angel". She isn't an angel, she is a person, JUST like you.
So instead of throwing shade at ALL women, look back on this relationship/courtship and try and figure out what didn't work.
Were you two not REALLY a good match? Were she faster to pick up on that than you?
Did you share things in common? fundamental things. Not just that you both like coffee.
Some people can tell early on if they think the other person is a good match or not. Sometimes is takes a little longer. Personally, I have been "fooled" by a "good guy" routine, when he really WASN'T a good guy at all. He just felt entitled because he used manners and insisted on paying for meals etc. But using manners, paying for a meal doesn't mean a woman OWE you something in return. She doesn't OWE you sex, she doesn't OWE you a relationship.
Think about it. Maybe you and her just wasn't a good fit. And next time, choose someone you share more in common with?
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (27 February 2016):
It's the same thing with men. A lot of players get that way because they got played by women. So they decide they are not going to love but just take what women have to offer.
I applaud you for keep being nice because if you turn into a player that just going to perpetuate a cycle that wouldn't stop on its own.
The question I have to ask is why you are nice guys keep running into abused/mistreated/neglected women? I don't doubt that there are many of those. Maybe that's what is left in the dating market. Only the healthy ones are married and would stay married. I think it just means you have to take a longer time to screen out women. Run whenever they make you a friend to listen to past problems. Just like women who have to keep rejecting when a man just wants sex.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (27 February 2016): It sounds like a really hard break up there maybe it was for the best or you two could make contact again and figure things out I don't know why either I know some people are weary of each other at first if not for a good while until things improve between them maybe the friends and family didn't work so well together and you need a new chance
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