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So_Very_Confused
writes:Today as I was leaving work and walking to my car, I passed, going in the opposite direction a co-worker who I *barely* know who was walking with another man. He is a tall, attractive man with an engaging smile and bright eyes. He's 10-15-maybe 20 years younger than I am.This was what happened:He: smiling and pointing right at me "don't get into any trouble tonight"She: smiling right back "oh darn, well that takes all the fun out of it"He: "oh well in THAT case, don't get caught!"and POOF he was gone and I was gone....but it started me thinking about all the posts we see here asking "does he like me?" "is she flirting with me?" "why are they flirting with me and saying those things?" And I know what to say now...You MAY be dealing with a NATURAL FLIRT. I never thought of myself as one until one day many years ago when my friend said to me "I love watching two natural flirts together." I wasn't sure what she meant but over the years I have given thought to this phenomenon. Maybe "natural flirts" are just outgoing people? But then I think about some very outgoing folks who couldn't flirt their way out of a paper bag if they had cliff notes. And there are some very shy folks who are natural flirts. So who is a natural flirt? I don't know that quite yet.Things that I do know...1. Natural flirts SMILE... at EVERYONE... men, women, babies... it's age, sex, gender and race neutral. And not a little smile but big wide grins... welcoming looks...2. They tend to have a good sense of humor about not only the world but themselves. And they share it with folks. 3. They tend to be very open about things in their lives.4. They tend to be spontaneous people.I've flirted with folks for years and years and it's HARMLESS in my my mind and and my intent. I'm doing it without even thinking about it. I don't do it to stroke egos or make someone think I like them. In fact, I don't even think about it. And that's where it also can start trouble without meaning to. Maybe my flirting makes someone who is not a natural flirt think I'm hitting on them, or that i like them and want a relationship with them. If two natural flirts get together you get a scenario like the one above. Does not mean anything...just harmless fun and flirting at the end of a busy day... I believe he's happily married with kids and I'm on the verge of getting formally engaged to my partner, neither of us is interested in anything other than some light playful banter at the office, or in line at the supermarket, at the doctor's office, a bus stop, a school play for your kids, etc etc etc...Natural flirts don't THINK about it, they don't PLAN IT, it just HAPPENS. When I read these questions asking about it I don't know what to say... maybe it meant something... maybe it didn't. If you want to know you need to watch this person with other folks and see if they flirt with others too. Words on paper can't convey a smile or a look... and HOW they flirt with you vs. how they flirt with others or IF they flirt with others will tell you a lot.Do NOT assume that because someone is flirting with you that they are overstepping bounds or trying to hit on you. AND if it makes you uncomfortable you should talk to the about it. They may not even realize they are doing it or that what they are doing makes you uncomfortable.OF course, there is the possibility that they are flirting with you because they want to be with you, date you, hook up with you etc...ONLY YOU can make that call. And what applies to one person may not apply to you in each different situation.So there you go, MAYBE they are flirting with you because they like you and want to date you, or have an affair with you. OR MAYBE they are flirting with you because that's just how they interact with the world. And maybe you should not take it personally.
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male
reader, jc2008  +, writes (28 February 2012):
I was having a read of this old convo. Its not soo much flirting in my opinion, its more being sharp and having confidence. My close friends and family often communicate a bit like this but we tend to either say sweet things or down right inslut each other. Because were comfortable with eachother we just say what we feel like and forgive each other of we overstepped the mark.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (23 December 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the question ROFL.. my ADHD made me forget that conversation... sorry!
I guess I'm very clear about my flirting and if someone thinks I am hitting on them, they are making it up in their head....
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (23 December 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionto IamheiAmHereToHelpYou:
see that's where you are missing the point... flirting is NOT sexual. if it's harmless and friendly even with babies it's FLIRTING
if it's sexual it's HITTING ON THEM...
for me when I "flirt" with my fiance it can go either way and I know which way I mean it... he may or may not depending on his mood.. but isn't it up to ME to decide how to flirt.
or are you saying the one being flirted with gets to decide if it's sexual or not.. because if you are I totally disagree and believe that is why we get so many "does he like me" kinds of questions.. becuase the flirtee is misinterpeting the flirter...
and perhaps the flirter does not actually know how to flirt properly or is NOT a NATURAL flirt...
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female
reader, bluecow +, writes (23 December 2011):
 Just read this article, and SVC has just described me.
I'm naturally a shy and quite introverted person (but a bloody good actress), however I am friendly, will chat to anyone and I guess... a natural flirt.
I'm not talking about overtly sexual approaches, body contact or throwing myself at someone.
I'm talking about wide smiles, EYE CONTACT, being approachable, interested (in what they have to say, not them as a potential partner)and a wee bit of cheekiness if its appropriate. In essense I pay attention to that person, even when part of a group, I give my attention to the person I am talking to - not at the expense of everyone I hasten to add.
Its not about wanting to get laid, and its not about finding another person sexually attractive. I will compliment people of both sexes if i think THEY are looking particularly nice... that does not mean I fancy them.
However, it has got me into trouble in the past. A purely platonic friend grasped the wrong end of the stick and I had to deal with the fallout, equally I have had an aquaintence accuse me of fancying her man when actually I wouldnt have touched him with someone elses bargepole. I was just trying to be friendly and welcoming to him as he didnt know anyone in his new girls social group... ooops.
Flirting is about having fun, HARMLESS fun, and should not be taken seriously. Sales people are TRAINED to flirt, in order to gross higher sales. The person they are flirting with isnt getting hung up on the "he/she fancies me"... they are enjoying the attention and so more likely to buy as nowadays people rarely pay full attention to others.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (18 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFlirting that is intended to get someone's sexual attention is very much sexual. And when done to a taken person is rude.
FLIRTING as I am talking about it, is
a. NOT sexual
b. NOT to be hidden from a person's partner
c. NOT contrived or unnatural.
I think the last anonymous poster is also miscontruing what a natural flirt is...
most folks don't even KNOW they are being hit by a flirtation with a natural flirt... it just happens and POOF it's gone.... and the last poster would say
"what a fun outgoing person she is"
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2011): As Dr Phil said, flirting is often a sexual message. Sometimes, it is an intentional sexual message. But, even when it isn't, flirting can be construed as a sexual message. With consequences!!!
I like jolly, happy people but I cannot stand flirts. You need to be careful too; some women may take great offence at your so called "innocent" flirting. If someone flirted with my man in front of me, then I would expect him to tear you down a strip before I whacked you over the head with my handbag!
Flirty girls/women are pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!
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female
reader, kinkykel +, writes (8 October 2011):
 never jump 1st if this is what he really wants make him work for it not by sexally flirting back being nice you see how smiling with your eyes works right. if you want the same thing let him know by being nice laughing eye contact etc. if he is a natural flirt well even they have a weakness and they may also be a player if you don't want to get hurt then stay back, he may just want to have a lil fun and there is nothing wrong with that at all no 1 has to know. and 20 yrs younger well he might need you to teach him thats always fun. my man started as a flirt he is 10 yrs younger then me well now i can't get rid of him lol i wouldn't change it for any thing. And there are THINGS about others that i wouldn't change either.play the game who says you can't have fun. ;)
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reader, kinkykel +, writes (7 October 2011):
never jump 1st if this is what he really wants make him work for it not by sexally flirting back being nice you see how smiling with your eyes works right. if you want the same thing let him know by being nice laughing eye contact etc. if he is a natural flirt well even they have a weakness and they may also be a player if you don't want to get hurt then stay back, he may just want to have a lil fun and there is nothing wrong with that at all no 1 has to know. and 20 yrs younger well he might need you to teach him thats always fun. my man started as a flirt he is 10 yrs younger then me well now i can't get rid of him lol i wouldn't change it for any thing. And there are THINGS about others that i wouldn't change either.play the game who says you can't have fun. ;)
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reader, chigirl  +, writes (7 October 2011):
 Okay, people don't understand it, that's what I see. People do not see the difference between a player and a natural flirt/friendly person.Friendly flirting is just a person being nice. It's like playful teasing, and it is done only when you know the other person will understand that it is friendly. Unfortunately not all people have the same social antennas. For a person who doesn't see the difference between nice and flirting, it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to differentiate between the two, especially when the other person WANTS it to mean something more. However, a natural and friendly flirter will NOT take a conversation to mean more than it does. Friendly flirting = being nice. Flirting = making a move on you.There are people who flirt by intention because they want more... And then there are people who are just using light hearted flirts to make amusing interaction and lighten up the mood. For example I was at work today, I work at a bowling alley, and this grumpy older man came in. The day before he had given me a smart-ass reply when he asked if something was free, and I asked if he mean if a bowling lane was free, and he said "no, a race-cart lane", with a smug attitude. So today he came in again and asked if something was free, and my male co-worker replied "race-cart lanes? No, none of those!". It made him crack a smile at least.It's a joke. But it could have been understood as flirting too. However everyone gets that it isn't, since it's a straight guy talking to a twice as old grumpy man. Had it been me joking like that with a young male customer, on the other hand, I guess some people could have taken it to mean more.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 October 2011): Your name really suits you.... you are confused (and I don't mean that in a mean way.) Smiling and waving at babies isn't flirting. That's being friendly and outgoing. A baby won't think "oh, she's flirting with me." I personally think you believe that being friendly and outgoing = flirting, which it doesn't.It is so possible to be friendly, outgoing, and social without flirting. I bet you that you are friendly and outgoing and not as flirting as you think. I use the quote from The Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." For example: in a cute whiney voice "Whhhhyyyy haven't you caalled meeee?" (pout pout pout.) Here's another example: person one: "I heard you did great at the game, yoooour suuuuch a beats!" person two: "Yeah, but you weren't there, so how do you know." person one: "Aaaawwww, don't worry, I'll be there next time ;)"Both interactions can be done without flirting. Example one: "I was hoping to hear from you, give me a call if you have a chance." Example two: "Congrats! I heard you did great at the game, I wasn't able to attend, but I hope to next time." See the difference? Friendly, inviting, not flirty. No one gets hurt. It's all in the attitude, tone, and body language.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (7 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you for your very detailed response.
I clearly see your point of view and while I disagree with it I respect it enough to think that maybe i should not talk to anyone anymore but my boyfriend.
Seriously. How in the world can I NOT flirt...
a man yesterday came to my co-worker's desk.... he took out his money clip and handed him a bill (he owed him some money clearly)... I do not know this man... as he left I held out my hand and smiled at him...
he asked: How much you want?
I asked : How much you got?
we went back and forth a few times and he was gone. there was some smiling but no winking or "hooking up" or any intention on either part to do so.
But since you consider flirting so evil I am sure others do as well. And I guess I have to watch what I say now to everyone.
No more flirting with the girl behind the counter, no more smiling and waving at cute babies.. no more flirting with the 90 yr old guy at the nursing home... sadly for people LIKE ME that means NO SOCIAL INTERACTION with anyone but my partner...
what a sad life I'm going to have now...
I can't tell you how sorry I am that this topic has caused folks pain...
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (7 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you for your very detailed response.
I clearly see your point of view and while I disagree with it I respect it enough to think that maybe i should not talk to anyone anymore but my boyfriend.
Seriously. How in the world can I NOT flirt...
a man yesterday came to my co-worker's desk.... he took out his money clip and handed him a bill (he owed him some money clearly)... I do not know this man... as he left I held out my hand and smiled at him...
he asked: How much you want?
I asked : How much you got?
we went back and forth a few times and he was gone. there was some smiling but no winking or "hooking up" or any intention on either part to do so.
But since you consider flirting so evil I am sure others do as well. And I guess I have to watch what I say now to everyone.
No more flirting with the girl behind the counter, no more smiling and waving at cute babies.. no more flirting with the 90 yr old guy at the nursing home... sadly for people LIKE ME that means NO SOCIAL INTERACTION with anyone but my partner...
what a sad life I'm going to have now...
I can't tell you how sorry I am that this topic has caused folks pain...
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 October 2011): The reason it makes me feel horrible about myself is that I know it is fake. Because I know what I am. Also because a lot of "flirts" do it under the radar, thinking it's okay to flirt, and there are oposite people like me who think someone is just trying to be nice and have a conversation. And then you turn around and realize you were feeding into something horrible. It takes all of my energy away, like it was taken by a vampire or something. It makes me feel used and really hurts.
It makes me angry because those people can't just be nice, they have to be "flirts." It makes it pointless to be nice, because they turn it into something it isn't and something it doesn't have to be. I wonder "why are they doing this to me? I don't deserve to be treated like this."
Just like that girl. Maybe she was going too far, yes. But the truth is, that people like /me/ male or female, get flirted with in any way it does two things: 1) if you're not in a relationship it confuses you and gives you false hope about how people preceive you. Then, when you try to presue it, you realize it was just a big joke and a slap in the face. 2) if you are in a relationship it makes /you/ seem like the flirt, which you're not, and like I said every relationship is different. In some relationships outside flirting is not acceptable, and so it causes problems.
It's like having mind games played on you from all angles. It isn't cute or fun, it's just exhausting. You may not be doing it on purpose yourself, but a lot do, male and female. Because the truth is, you get some sort of boost out of it or you wouldn't do it. Some people are addicted to that. They boost themselves up constantly, not realizing that in their wake they leave a ton of hurt, drained people.
Why do you think there are so many questions on here: "Does he really like me?" or "Does she really like me?" or "Why is this guy/girl always flirting with me?" These are the people getting hurt. So the "harmless" natural personality, in your case not meaning any harm, is actually like the epicenter of an earthquake. Maybe some people are not affected and are fine, but others are like the building with no foundation and they crumble.
There are more of the "others" than you realize. Just like you say "natural flirt" there are so many more who are oposite, they will always be oposite. They won't be able to tell the difference, and they will become angry, bitter, and damaged over either: "My boyfriend/girlfriend is always flirting with other people, why am I not enough for them," or "this guy/girl I know keeps flirting with me and my partner thinks something is going on," or "this person kept flirting with me and I fell for them, but they said they don't have feelings for me," and on and on....
And you blame the other person. " are you a female not being permitted to have a normal life interaction with others; because that sounds like an abused woman talking."
-Nope, someone who is in a relationship where flirting with others is not acceptable both ways. Being friendly, outgoing, yes, perfectly fine. Flirting, not allowed, because it is considered disrespectful mutually. It is considered cheating, emotionally, looking for a boost from someone else.
And :) is waaaaay different than ;)
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (6 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear Anonymous poster,
At first I thought you were male but now I am not so sure. Hard to tailor my response to anonymous folks without a gender so I'll be generic..
You said: "I hate it when people flirt with me, it makes me feel horrible about myself and like they are doing it on purpose to put me in a bad situation."
OUCH... are you a female not being permitted to have a normal life interaction with others; because that sounds like an abused woman talking.
Explain to me how someone smiling at you in passing and saying something cute makes you feel horrible about yourself... please I can't even begin to imagine that and I want to learn so that when I naturally flirt with someone I do not make them feel HORRIBLE about themselves. And if someone ELSE doing something to you puts you in a bad situation with your partner then you are in an abusive relationship.
I asked my partner yesterday, "hon do you MIND that I flirt with other people?" He got a slightly amused look on his face and said “no because I KNOW YOU and TRUST YOU and know that IF THEY GET OUT OF HAND OR STEP over the LINE you will put them in their place"
I’m glad he said that because I do not flirt with others to make HIM feel bad. I also am not sure if I could manage to curb my flirting as again I state I do not do it ON PURPOSE, nor do I give much thought to it... it's just the way I am.
Natural flirts DO flirt with their partners. When I got home Again NATURAL flirts will flirt with children, old people, even the mailwoman and garbage men are flirted with if the situation arises.
I think folks are missing the point about NATURAL flirts. Natural flirts do NOT put thought into it... it's like breathing for them.. Natural flirts are NOT flirting to flirt...they don't PLAN it or think about it... it just IS what it is... their personality....
Watching someone flirt to hook up at least for me is painful... I can TELL it's contrived and NOT an easy flow... I can't flirt with folks like that.
The guy who sits across from me at work... he's outgoing.. He’s NOT a flirt. There is a difference between being outgoing and being a natural flirt.
You said: "I think all flirting is harmful when in a relationship, unless it is 100% agreed upon by both parties what is acceptable or not. A cute comment, a wink, even using the ;) is unacceptable when in a relationship in my household."
Just this morning I watched SEVERAL emails sent from others at work to co-workers that were work related and ALL of them had the :-) smiley. What would you do then?
WHAT you seem to think of as an outgoing personality is NOT what I am talking about.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 October 2011): I think all flirting is harmful when in a relationship, unless it is 100% agreed upon by both parties what is acceptable or not. A cute comment, a wink, even using the ;) is unacceptable when in a relationship in my household. I'm sorry to say but all these things can be very hurtful to people. Someone who is very lonely sees you using ;) in a text or something, and their heart will race and can very easily lead them to believe something is there that isn't. Or it can cause arguments with a partner if that partner feels you "flirt" with everyone, but not them. Or what's worse, to be flirted with and then get blamed for leading that person to flirt more when you did nothing to provoke it. I hate it when people flirt with me, it makes me feel horrible about myself and like they are doing it on purpose to put me in a bad situation. I'm just saying that it is a knife thin line. I think a lot of what you are talking about isn't flirting at all. It's just being outgoing and socially comfortable in their behavior. Some people are awkward with others, some aren't.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (5 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOh Chigirl you are so right what this girl is doing is NOT harmless and to me it's not even FLIRTING.. it's blatant exploitation of her sexuality to gain attention to stroke her ego.
See this is interesting to me... I would NOT classify what you list:
hogging their inbox,
spamming their facebook wall with cutesy messages,
wanting to hang out alone,
encouraging sleep overs,
late night texting,
inside jokes while in public
fishing for complements
a "look at me" attitude
as flirting. I would NOT tolerate any of these things from a woman going after my partner. This to me is NOT flirting. This to me is an insecure person needing an ego stroke at the expense of others.
And sadly for me, it is inappropriate people like this that give natural flirts like me a bad name. I'm totally 100% committed to my relationship, but I'm not dead... so I'll often flirt in front of my BF and he's fine with it..and he knows where he stands with me.... But again my flirting might be an offhand comment.. and poof then I'm gone. Hammering at someone to "pay attention to me" is just attention whore behavior to stroke a fragile ego...
It seems to me that it's NOT natural behavior that you list. IN fact, it seems almost pathologically needy to me... and possibly contrived and planned.
Natural flirting is not planned... it's not obtrusive. It's not over the top... and to be honest most folks who are "hit and run" by a natural flirt don't even think about it unless they are LOOKING for a reason to think that person is interested in them...
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reader, chigirl +, writes (5 October 2011):
Yes, there is harmless flirting, but what this girl did wasn't harmless, and she should have taken the hint when it happened over and over. However, harmless flirting exists.
Then again I will also add that I too know of a girl who doesn't see any harm in what she does, but she constantly flirts even when she has a boyfriend. I do not know how the boyfriend has grown to accept this, but she flirts and thinks it's just friendly. It's really annoying for every other woman who stands by watching to see guys fall in love with her, even when she's taken, because she doesn't control herself. And it is such obvious things too, like hogging their inbox, spamming their facebook wall with cutesy messages, wanting to hang out alone, even encouraging sleep overs, and late night texting, inside jokes while in public (creates at atmosphere that they share something special, because no one else will understand the joke), fishing for complements and a "look at me" attitude. You know the type that can't stand it when someone else gets attention and must immediately do something to get attention back to themselves.
However, in the case of both this girl I know, and the girl the anon poster knows, the guys ought to get a grip on the situation as well and learn that they are being played, intentionally or not, and put a stop to it themselves. These girls (or guys too I am sure) will not ever get the message unless someone tells them to stop flirting (to the extent that they do it) unless they mean it. It is not harmless when people get hurt/fall in love/feel lead on. The problem is that even if you know you are being toyed with (which is the case of the NON-harmless flirting) it is hard to give up the attention you get. Receiving attention, even meaningless attention, feels nice.
But if you are in a position where you feel someone is flirting with you or people you know, without meaning anything, and you know it will hurt feelings... and it's happened over and over... Definitely speak up. Put a stop to it.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (5 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Tickling, sitting on their laps, splashing them in the pool, and flirting up a storm.
Oh dear... that's beyond what I'm talking about... seriously. I would never TOUCH a person I flirt with. Body contact is NOT flirting.
Sounds to me like this young woman had NO CLUE the effect she had on these boys. It's similar to body dysmorphia when a woman thinks she is fat (or thin) and in actuality it's the complete opposite. And for that I am sorry that she has forever ruined what is truly a delightful experience for most.
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 October 2011): I personally do not like "natural flirts." It may seem innocent to the person flirting, but it often makes the other person feel they are being lead on. I used to know a girl who was the "little sister." Her brother was four years older. She got used to being the center of attention from his friends as the cute little sister. This never worse off and she grew into a stunning young woman who was blind to her own physical beauty. She continued to act like the cute little girl. Tickling, sitting on their laps, splashing them in the pool, and flirting up a storm. In her mind she was the "little sister" but in their mind she was hot chick who was digging them. All of them fell for her every single time.Many times she would come to me in tears because these guys she considered long time friends would try to hook up with her. THey would get furious to find out she was only flirting and not wanting to be with them for any reason (this was over both relationships and sex,) and she lost friends. I would say between the age of 15 and 19 about 30-40 guys were all heart broken and pissed off by this girl, who could not get it in her head that she was leading them on. To this day I do not believe in "harmless flirting" as a rule. Flirting should be reserved for when you are actually interested in someone and not used as a game.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (2 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionExactly Cindy. A natural flirt flirts because THEY CAN... it's not to gain anything (i.e. sex) it's flirting for the sake of flirting.. it's FUN.... and yes, those are the young guys that flirt with the old ladies at the nursing home, etc...
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reader, CindyCares  +, writes (1 October 2011):
 I think I get what you mean, SVF.
A guy who flirts only to hook up, i.e. to get something out of the exchange, is not a Natural Flirt, he's a player and a manipulator. A natural flirt smiles at, jokes with , and compliments everybody- including old ladies in a retirement home. It's not about sex , at least not directly. I think in part it's a bit of narcissism ( flirts like to be liked and to feel they are likeable ) but in part it's a good thing, they also like to make feel people good about themselves.
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reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (1 October 2011):
So_Very_Confused is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSee I disagree with it to be honest. If someone thinks that I flirt just to hook up they would be wrong.
Flirting is not about LOVE.... it's about fun and humor... yes occasionally it's about hooking up but to me that's not true flirting.
FLIRTING is different than wanting to get laid. Flirting is about laughing and having fun... and maybe making the other person have fun and feel good... NATURAL FLIRTS (what I am talking about here NOT people who have to THINK about it) are NOT flirting to get laid. or even to get a life partner.... NATURAL flirts ARE NOT THINKING about the fact that OTHERS see their behavior as flirting and define flirting as hooking up behavior.
NATURAL FLIRTS flirt like they breathe.... without thinking about it.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (1 October 2011):
Good point!
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reader, brokenbridge  +, writes (30 September 2011):
 really some people use flirting just to hook up ... i know one of them ... he used to flirt just to get a girl ... playing some roles ... and then throw her and go ...
flirting is something nice when the love is loud ... but for any other reason .. its just hooking ...
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