A
male
age
41-50,
*ndecidedPrude
writes:This is my first post on this site. I have a perplexing problem. My wife and I have some new friends. We have been going over to their home on the weekend. Sometimes it is rather docile. Sometimes it is not. We drink alcohol and chat. There are usually between 6 and 10 adults at the house. I have no problem when it is docile. When it gets out of control, I have a problem. My wife is fine until she drinks. When she drinks, I see a side of her that I don’t like. Lately she has been taking off her shirt a lot and playing show and tell with her panty line. She pulled her pants down and pissed in the yard as a prank, fully exposing herself to the group. Other women join in on a much more subdued level, but my wife is the instigator. I have told her that this does not sit well with me. I have told her that her behavior is not respectful of me or my feelings. She had apologized on previous occasions and said that she would do better, but it keeps happening. Before the last time, I asked her to stick with beer or wine (no hard liquor). It didn’t help. So far there have been three such occasions. Each time I expressed my displeasure. Each time she said that it would not continue. As background, I must mention that she has had an affair before. It was seven years ago and I had put it behind me. This activity is bringing back a lot of insecurity for me. I feel like I, once again, can’t trust her.This most recent time the group was smaller. She actually pulled out a girls tit and sucked on both of them, in spite of my obvious displeasure. She then described that she wanted to continue this while I did her and another person sucked her tits. I was disgusted and embarrassed. There where only guys left to participate. Regardless the first proposition was appalling enough. I then realized that everyone in the room had no problem with the proposal. My first instinct was to leave. I knew if I left that would be it. I do love her though. So, I stayed and dealt with the shame.I know some guys dream of this type of partner. I don’t though. I just want a monogamist relationship. I don’t want to be controlling. This last time, she said that she was fine with it until I made such a big deal. She said that I was just trying to make her feel bad and that I had succeeded. She said that my problem was that I didn’t want her to have fun. She said that I was projecting my own insecurities by being uptight about it.She has made it clear that she wants to keep going over to these people’s house. I don’t know that this tendency would be cured by excluding myself. In fact, I have no doubt that it would intensify with my absence. I want her to be what she is. I just want what she is to be something different. My question is: Is it right to asserting myself on this subject at the risk of alienating myself from her social life? Do you think I am gaining anything by stopping this behavior against her will? If that is what she wants to do, am I wrong to ask her to go against her desires to please my jealousy over her? I believe she can stop, but it would not be her desire to. To all the people who will comment, no I do not instigate this behavior nor to do I sanction it. I also do not participate in the exposure of others in the group.
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male
reader, 2old4this +, writes (28 January 2009):
 Hey mommyofone, I dont think we have read the same thing. This guy is upset not by her cutting loose and having a little fun, but by her disregard of his feelings. Nobody not even him is saying she can't go out and have fun with friends. But she is taking some things far enough that it makes him feel lousy and she doesnt seem to care. Also, your man may be ok with that stuff from you and thats cool. But he is not so if she loved him she would tone it back some. I would if the situation was reversed.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 January 2009): I hope your not mistaken my advice with 'Reader's advice'. We are not on the same page. Take Care!
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A
male
reader, UndecidedPrude +, writes (28 January 2009):
UndecidedPrude is verified as being by the original poster of the questionPoint taken. So, is this one of those things like "let it go, if it is love it will return to you" type things? Because I have a lot more riding on this than I did with my high school crush. Leaving it to chance and hoping that everything goes fine with her new found friends really isn't an option given her past and most recent activities. It sounds all good and pragmatic to say that I need to lighten up and she needs this identity outside of our family. I agree to a point. The point that I do not agree to is where I just turn a blind eye to obvious danger to my family and my marriage. I'm not speaking from a place where everything is rosy and there aren't serious threats to my marriage. There are serious threats to my marriage. She does need and deserve healthy relationships outside of the nuclear family, where she can have an identity that is not described by the words mom and wife. I do believe though, that it is my responsibility to protect her from destructive relationships hell-bent on using up her vulnerabilities and discarding her when the party is over - with no regard for her enduring wellbeing. So label me a control freak if you like, but I have to fight for something that is worth more than a sense of even-handedness. I'm fighting for my family.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (28 January 2009): Then allow (sounds stupid because your not her boss) to make new friends and go out and have fun with them. Being a mother, she has to take time out where she can just be herself and do what she want, with in the law of course. Of course I agree that she shouldn't expose herself or perform sex acts, blah blah blah.But, also focus on chilling out and don't bully her with any "new" friends she should make. Remember, she has to have an identity outside of her marriage too. She has got to have friends, and you can't pick them for her.
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A
male
reader, UndecidedPrude +, writes (28 January 2009):
UndecidedPrude is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAnonymous, I am already on it. I have made reservations at a resort for the weekend and will plan something for the next two years at least. My wife was actually excited when I told her that I had made the plans. I'll make it a point to have something planned a week in advance at all times. If my wife goes on and makes plans longer out than that, I'll counter with a "special occasion", trip out of town or some other impulsive thing. I can beat these people. I just have to start being more creative. Maybe that was what we were missing anyway. Maybe she was just bored. I know it's an excuse, but I'll take and excuse right now.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 January 2009): I hate to say it, but these people are evil if they conspire to turn on you if you leave the group.
I mean, would you really be 'missing' their friendship if they blacked balled you? (I would take it as a compliment:) Well, I have an idea. When people try to manipulate me, I make myself BUSY. Think of a list of things to avoid going over there...kids sick/or sleepover, weekend vacation out of town, house project...it's a start. All it takes is one family to break away...and most likely others will want out. You can do this! Are there any other couples you know that know how to have fun without being vulgar? Life is too short to be miserable...and think of your kids finding out someday! They are worth protecting.
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A
female
reader, AskEve  +, writes (27 January 2009):
 Well done to you for being able to talk with her and getting her to THINK for herself and see sense. The best thing to do would be to stay well away from ALL of them, they're toxic! Let your wife see that she's loved and cherished by you, do other things together and in time she'll look back on all of this and see how ridiculous she was being. In the meantime you STAY strong and continue to protect that which you love.
Well done!
~Eve~
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A
male
reader, UndecidedPrude +, writes (27 January 2009):
UndecidedPrude is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you Eve. I think you are right in this approach. I did just talk to her after I posted. I asked her to repeat to me what she though they would do if they know I was getting in the way of her and their fun. She did and I asked her if she really though they were her friends or if they might turn on her one day instead of me. I know it made an impression on her. She conceded and suggested that we spend less time over there. In the interim, I'm going to make sure that we are busy doing other things as often as possible. I will also drag my feet about going over there anytime the issue comes up. My idea is that, if we don't go over there until 10pm, there will be less time to get trashed and less likelihood that my wife will be drawn-in. That is if we even have to go over there at all.
Also, when I mentioned about the group turning against her, it jogged her memory of another instance of a girl who is a relative of the main couple. She noticed that the girl does not come over until late and leaves after 2 or 3 hours, never without her husband. The girl had mentioned previously that she and her husband used to party over there but they figured out that they didn't like the way they party. She never elaborated to my wife on why though. I suspect swinging.
Thank you everyone for helping me through this. I have a long way to go but it helps to get things off my chest and talk them out. Things get all twisted when I'm rolling them around in my head. Talking about them to someone sympathetic has empowered me to "fight for [my] marriage," like Eve said.
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A
female
reader, AskEve +, writes (27 January 2009):
***"My wife even said it today that she cannot talk to any of them about how I am being “because they would conspire against me if they knew.”*** Why on earth would you or your wife even WANT to be friends with these people?
You need to get your wife on your side here. Why don't you point out to her exactly what they are like and use what she said about them conspiring against you. Surely even your wife is intelligent enough to know these people are dangerous and only fairweather friends. They are probably having a good old laugh with each other (and god knows who else) at what your wife is doing. In fact, they'll probably encourage her!
Why don't you and your wife go out somewhere else at the weekend? Arrange it during the week so that if they ask you again you can tell them you can't as you already have something else planned. I'm sure if you sat and spoke to your wife when she was sober and in a good mood, she'd see for herself how two faced and vindictive these people can be. Don't be sucked in by them, take the lead here and make your wife see how she's being used as a laughing stock for them to get their kicks.
~Eve~
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A
male
reader, UndecidedPrude +, writes (27 January 2009):
UndecidedPrude is verified as being by the original poster of the questionEve, I understand what your saying but she has called my bluff again. It is she that has made the stand. As for talking to the members of this group, If they knew how upset I was about it, they would begin to plot against me. This is not paranoia. My wife even said it today that she cannot talk to any of them about how I am being “because they would conspire against me if they knew.” They have told stories of others who have suffered the same fate. This one guy put his foot down and they made a concerted effort to hook her up with another man. I worked too. When I heard this story, I was ready to go but it's like a cult of partiers once they get one of your family, they will conspire to turn against anyone who tries to leave with their family intact. As I write this analogy it's sinking in how much like a cult it really is. There, I've freaked myself out.
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A
female
reader, AskEve +, writes (27 January 2009):
Then DON'T be impotent about it! Stand up for yourself and have some backbone. Have a word with the other "friends" individually when they're sober. Go round to their homes and talk to them about it and let them know not to encourage your wife. YOU have a mind and YOU control your feelings, you are in charge of your mind and no one else. Come on man, fight for your marriage and make a stand here once and for all!
You are the protector of your family. If she can't see she's in the wrong here then YOU do something about it. Let her know that you don't mind her enjoying herself and having a few drinks but again set boundaries. DO IT sooner rather than later. Have that talk with her and talk to the others individually without your wife being there. You're not in the wrong for doing that. You're concerned for your wife AND your marriage!!!
~Eve~
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A
male
reader, UndecidedPrude +, writes (27 January 2009):
UndecidedPrude is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWe talked about it some more today. She wants me to let it go. I do have a low self esteem and I won't leave. I know that this group is aware, as I am, that all they require is enough drink and my absence to have her doing as they please. I'm not strong enough to prevent it. I'm just being honest. She has made a lot of the same arguments for her continuing with this group of people as I have seen here. "I'm just cutting loose." She even said that she would not do it again... again. The fact is that if it weren't this group it would be another. She has been raising children, if as suggested, this is reason to accept the behavior. Because of the children, I have to make it work. They may judge that I was weak too but they will know that I was there. I really have two options: 1) Make a stand and, as rightly said, she leaves me with the children. 2) Get over it and have what is left of my marriage and my children to hold and see every day. I just don't think I could be without them. I certainly couldn't bare the idea of one of the perverts raising them. The custody laws are on the side of the woman, that's just a sad fact. She'll stay with me as long as I'll take it. That's just as good as it gets. Besides, as weak and misguided as it may be, I still love her, even if she chooses her friends over my heart. I really hate how impotent I am in this whole thing.
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female
reader, AskEve +, writes (27 January 2009):
***"She actually pulled out a girl's tit and sucked on both of them... She then described that she wanted to continue this while I did her and another person sucked her tits..."***
BANG OUT OF ORDER for any married woman! She is an attention seeker, simple as that. She's using drink as an excuse to be the focus of attention. She doesn't have any respect for you to do this in front of other men and women.
You need to sit her down and have a SERIOUS talk with her and tell her plainly that she is acting like a tart, not to mention a laughing stock with everyone else and if she continues this behaviour then you won't be accompanying her to your friend's house again. There are boundaries in every marriage and if she can't see how this is out of order AND more importantly, upsetting the man she loves then I think it's time you had a serious rethink about your marriage in general.
~Eve~
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2009): You just don't get it. Read his 4th paragraph. People who want sex acts with other men -in front of their husbands- shouldn't be married period.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2009): She should be able to have fun and let loose without her husband being a prude and trying to be her boss! No, she shouldn't expose herself or suck on other girls boobs but she should be able to have fun. I don't think he should leave because of this. He should respect her enough to let her have fun, and she should respect him enough to not cross that line.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2009): No, the women I know don't relieve themselves outside, or perform sexual acts with other woman if they drink. How embarassing! How could you even stay? You deserve someone better who knows how to have a good time without making a complete idiot of herself. You're not a prude, she's trying to live a 'girls-gone-wild' life.:[
I hope you move on to a real woman.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2009): He is not the boss of her. No, she should have respect for herself and not expose herself. But, he isn't her commander and boss! I don't think this is deserving of a divorce. I think you guys are going WAY over board here!I think he needs to lighten up. Big time. And I think you guys are planting the wrong seeds in his head telling him he needs to be a d*ck and be a control freak, or divorce her cause once a week she goes to her friends house, drinks, and cuts up. So what. Tell her she need not expose herself but she can go on having fun. Try to control her every move, and sir, *she* will leave *you*.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2009): "I think the drinking is a good excused for her to do what she really wants to do without having to face my displeasure. You know, "Did I do that? I must have been kidding around. What are you getting so upset about? I was drunk!" - when she and I know that she wasn't that drunk."Well, the answers are (1), get some individual counseling on why you have such low self-esteem that you put up with this, and (2), stop allowing her to not face the consequences of breaking your boundaries. The only consequence of meaning will be, the loss of her marriage to you - you will either kick her out or leave her.Seriously, with you being so submissively accepting of this behavior, why do you expect her to change? You are displaying submissive behavior to her, by not enforcing consequences of unacceptable behavior; she thereby loses respect for you each and *every* time you fail to respect *yourself* strongly enough to want to remove her from your life when she behaves this disrespectfully towards you. If you value your relationship/marriage, you MUST begin to enforce your boundaries - or in her eyes, you will have none and will deserve whatever contemptable treatment she gives you. She CANNOT respect you and your wishes until you respect yourself enough to enforce them.
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female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (27 January 2009):
 Oh now way, 2old4this! Girls gets crazy at bars all the time, have fun, dance with one another, etc. Maybe she has been a mommy for a few years and is itching to have a little fun again? Maybe she is pushing to show her husband that she would like to try new things in bed? Maybe she's bored sexually and is indirectly hinting? I think that one situation where she sucked a girls boob (I've seen worse in bars between straight taken women) was a little off but...in no way do I believe that this means she's cheating. Stupid you would say that.I think she's probably been caught up in work and home life, and forgot to have fun, and is now letting loose. Big deal. So what. He doesn't like that she exposed herself once. Ok. Then that needs to be set up as a line that shouldn't be crossed, and he should lighten up.Has she been raising kids lately?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2009): To answer your question, Holly7000:She seems fine when she is not drinking. No behavior like this is present in our life except amoung her friends. Unfortunately, she seems drawn to people who have little or no boundries. I think the drinking is a good excused for her to do what she really wants to do without having to face my displeasure. You know, "Did I do that? I must have been kidding around. What are you getting so upset about? I was drunk!" - when she and I know that she wasn't that drunk. I feel, if I out myself for being conservative about her behavior in front of her group, that will only encourage those around her who are looking for a weakness in our relationship to exploit. Generally, it's just a really bad situation and I don't have to tools or the confinence to fight it.
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female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (27 January 2009):
I really don't see the big deal here. Ok, ok, the boob sucking was a little over board. But everything else, doesn't seem like that big of a deal. I think you still have issues from when she had the affair. I don't think you should try to stop her from seeing her friends, that's just as much over board. Why don't you two sit down, have a talk about she can get wild, as long as she does not expose herself again. And, you need to move past what happened 7 years ago and focus on the fact that she is yours and no one elses. She goes home with you and only you, right?
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male
reader, 2old4this +, writes (27 January 2009):
Getting a little drunk and acting stupid is one thing, but getting or performing sexual acts with other people than you is unacceptible. This is her desire to be with others coming out yet again. I would not be surprised if there are other sexual indescretions of hers over the years you do not know about. You have to lay down the law to her and if she leaves you will not take her back.
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