A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:This seems to be a big topic here. I have read a lot of the responses from people and they are helping. What I notice is that there are two categories of people suffering from this. One is people who have had a lot of partners (maybe even more than their SO)who just cannot get over their spouse's past. This, to me, seems very unfair. The other is people like me who were not very experienced when we met our partner.For me, I had just turned 19 years old when I met the girl who would be my future wife. She was just about to turn 22 and farther along in life than I was. I wouldn't say she was particularly promiscuous. If anything, she was a little bit of a prude. She didn't lose her own virginity until age 20 so she had only been sexually active for just under 2 years when we met and had had only one LTR before me, which ended when he cheated on her. However, in that 2 year period she managed to sleep with at least 6 men and fool around with a few more than that. In fact, in the 3 months between when we were first introduced and when we became a couple she was with 3 different men sexually in addition to me. It was a period of time in her life when she was very lonely and depressed and trying to overcome her boyfriend cheating on her. She really liked all of the attention and her newfound sexual freedom. She had been saving herself up until that point, but once she lost her virginity she figured there wasn't any point being a prude anymore and she slept with guys she hardly knew. She says she regrets that now, but the past cannot be changed. On the other hand, not only was I a virgin, but I had never even had a girlfriend. I didn't do the things she did like proms or have those experiences like goodnight kisses on the porch. I had never even kissed a girl prior to meeting her. There were a few girls in pursuit of me at the time and I did spend the night sleeping in bed with 2 of them (completely innocent, not even hugging) but those limited experiences and a few high school style dates (holding hands and putting our arms around each other) was about as far as I ever allowed myself to go. On the other hand, my wife had lots of boyfriends in college and various sexual experiences with them even while remaining a virgin (even though not actually submitting to penetration). I think that my own sexual attitudes (that it was important to wait for the right girl) play into my jealousy, because I feel like my wife did not wait for the right guy. She met a guy online one summer in college and they flirted and I assume they talked dirty to each other via phone or Internet, because when she went to go meet him in Europe she slept with him on their second night together. Ironically, she was very jealous of his past partners at that time. Regardless, she gave him her virginity. She was only there a few days and they did not have any relationship after that time. I don't think she ever met him again. He did continue to write her up until the point I met her (but before we became a couple) and she told me she wasn't interested because "He has nothing to offer me." I do know that she did not have sex with her first real boyfriend (who she met just after that) for months because of how she felt used after her first experience, but after he cheated on her I think she just kind of said "Well, screw it." and she did - literally. When we got together she did not know I was a virgin, but she said she liked that I wasn't so eager to get into her pants as some of the other boys she was seeing and she felt she could trust me. I knew she wasn't a virgin, but I was okay with that. I mean, she only had had one LTR (I didn't know about the European guy yet) and she seemed so innocent and definitely not like some of the other girls I met in college, who slept with more than one guy a week sometimes. She told me "Everyone seems to be spinning a web of lust and it's nice to just go out with you and feel like I can trust you." I saved her letters from then when we were still just friends and she told me about the guys interested in her and the ones she was interested in, too, even telling me she slept with the 3 of them (one night each so she says). Eventually, one night she kissed me and in a love letter she told me that she had never seen me "that way" (in a sexual way) before until then. That statement still rather eats at me, because I was attracted to her from the start. I wonder why she felt compelled to sleep with these other guys while I was just her friend. Were they more attractive to her? Were they more aggressive sexually with her? Was it just timing (right place and right time)? Probably all of the above. Regardless, something worked out because we have been together almost 20 years now. However, I still have a really hard time letting her past go. I think it is because there were so many experiences I never had, which she did have. I mean, I had my first kiss with her, but she got to experience that thrill many times. Or the tension and anticipation of being with a new partner sexually and the passion of that, which I experienced with her, but which she enjoyed many times. She tells me that I did things for her emotionally which no other man had ever done for her, yet I still get hung up on the physical side. I knew (casually) almost all of these guys she slept with except the one in Europe (and I saw a photo of him) which makes it especially hard on me. In fact, one time when I invited her up to a party I was having she brought one of those guys with her (a surprise to me, because I thought she was coming to see me). A couple of them had reputations as man-sluts who made the rounds with her entire circle of friends and then some and I cannot believe that she would have allowed herself to be just another notch on their bedpost. These sexual experiences were not in the context of loving relationships and the one "loving relationship" she had resulted in cheating so I have to question her judgement. However, she said that these experiences were very sexually satisfying for her. I still know there whereabouts of every single one of these men because of various circumstances, mainly because every once in a while we interact with a member of our circle of friends from then who is still in touch with them. My wife also talks to one of them on Facebook, which I really have a problem with. She said she would stop if that hurt me so much, but the way she said it made me feel like a freak. Of course, she knows now I was a virgin when she met me (despite her thinking I had slept with those girls pursuing me simply because they dressed provocatively and that's how her friends behaved), but somehow she doesn't see how that might matter.I know I can't turn back the clock, but I know I don't please her sexually as much as those other men did. They were more handsome and had a lot more sexual experience. She did things with them that she would never do with me like bondage and blowjobs and making out in public at Disneyland. (All of these repulse her now, possibly because they remind her of them.) These are experiences that not only will I never have, but which other men have experienced with her. This is very difficult for me to imagine, that somewhere right now as I type this there could be a guy thinking about how my wife used to lick chocolate syrup off of his cock.Our sex life started out lukewarm and progressed to terrible. She doesn't even want to do it anymore. She says that while I can get her off it's way to much work. The implication of course is that she got off very easily before. It pains me that a guy could have spent one just night with my wife and (her words) "fucked my brains out" and yet I didn't make her cum until we had been together for months owing to my own inexperience. I know she used to love kissing, maybe more than sex itself according to letters she wrote me, but she found my inexpert attempts to kiss her leaving her oold and she won't do that anymore (kiss me anywhere or let me kiss her on the mouth). I told her the other day that her ex-boyfriend probably last had sex with her not too much longer ago than I last did. We have had sex maybe 100 times in 20 years, with almost all of it in the first two years I met her. In the last 16 years we have had sex maybe 10 times, probably less. At one stretch is was 6 years in a row without and in the last 10 years I think we did it maybe 3 times. Needless to say, we don't have any children, which is something we are both a little unsure about. (We talk about it and then we change our minds.) She does not take any birth control. We use condoms. She says that she hates the feel of condoms and that with her old boyfriend she mostly used the withdrawal method. In fact, she once thought she was pregnant as a result of him not withdrawing in time. This is another thing other men have experienced with my wife that I have never - being able to actually ejaculate inside of her. It's a threat to my manhood that another man has done that and that she has swallowed the cum of another man and yet she has never tasted mine nor has she ever had it inside of her. She started birth control once back when I first met her, but she quit after two days saying it made her nauseous and I never talked about it again. It's her body. Back when we had sex a lot of times she wanted me to not wear a condom saying it felt better without, but even though I have tried that a few times I just don't have the self-control to trust myself. So here I am, almost 40 and I have never had unprotected sex and never had a blowjob while she has done both with men that meant nothing to her. I don't know how to level that playing field. I almost cheated on her once (got to the point of meeting her at a hotel) just to feel what it would be like to be inside another woman (a girl I knew from college), but I felt too guilty to do it. I did kiss her and that experience definitely helped my psyche. A few years back, although the thought of exploiting women disgusts me, I started going to strip clubs. I don't go often. I have been maybe 5 times total. However, being able to watch and interact with nude women is therapeutic for me. I have had strippers sit topless on my lap and let me lick their entire bodies. I have had them "go down" on me and place their mouths on my penis through my pants. I don't cum, but feeling their hot breath and mouth on me is exciting. I even spent a lot of time French kissing one in a way I have never kissed my wife (or been kissed by her as she is truthfully a bad kisser herself). After this, I really entertained the idea of seeing an escort to get more of the experiences I crave, but I realized that not only would I be putting my marriage in jeopardy, but also my health and that of my wife so I tabled that idea. I still toy with the idea of erotic massage, however.It seems to me that where couples have vastly different sexual experience levels the only way to combat this retroactive jealousy and this feeling of being "left out" is to go out and have new experiences. I would love to go out, bring a woman home, and sleep with her for one night just to see what that is like. My wife had that experience. I am sure she is not proud of it, but she was able to get that out of her system. However, how does one do so in the context of a marriage - especially a marriage where your spouse has withdrawn sexually? I really need my wife to engage in some of those sexual experiences she did with other men, because it makes me feel lesser that I am the one loving her all of these years and overlooking her graying hair and yet they are the ones with memories of her I never had.We talk about it, but she is just not interested. She said that she got what she needed sexually and has moved on to a more mature phase. As for my needs, well, she doesn't seem to much care. Oh, she says she feels bad, but not enough to change. So now whenever she gets a Facebook message from her old boyfriend or I hear a certain song from a CD she got in Europe from her lover there (very rare and she told me he gave it to her) or even if I see a bottle of chocolate syrup I just go crazy internally. Not angry crazy, but just - it eats me up - and she just doesn't understand what the big deal is, but she never has to worry about my past relationships or if she is measuring up in bed so I think in that sense she has it good. On the other hand, not all of those memories were good for her. I have never had to experience a painful breakup or learn that my partner was cheating on me. I don't know what to do, but I just cannot see myself continuing like this for another 20 years. I love her. I don't want to leave her. What I really want, which is very selfish, is a vacation from her to find out some things about myself sexually. However, I don't want to give her the opportunity to do the same, since she already did all of her experimentation. Also, I am not sure that even if she agreed to this that it would be a positive thing. I might end up being wracked with guilt like I was when I thought about cheating. Even if it was with her blessing I would feel like it was cheating in my heart. You don't know how much I would love to be 18 again and have turned to those girls I was in bed with and just initiated sex or at least just lay with them and made out. I think they would've been very receptive. I am not sure that virgins should ever marry non-virgins. If I had been with only one other girl I think my life would be much less of a hell than it is now.
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
reader, anonymous, writes (31 December 2012): Dump her. You are young. This pain will never go away. Do not believe the politically correct observers who say this is your hang-up, just deal with it. It will never be dealt with. It will always haunt you. Break free NOW and find a life with someone else. Or just find a life away from this woman. You Cannot Be Happy With Her...
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (25 May 2011):
 OP, both your question and update covered so much ground and touched on so many issues, that's very difficult to stay on track, so I hope you'll alow me too a few " disjointed " comments.
- Sorry, no ,
you can't have it both ways. Either retroactive jealousy is a pathological phenomen, or is not. Either you have no control over it, or you could have it ,if you tried hard enough.
In the first case, don't waste time ,seek specialized therapy, talk to a shrink, and take OCD meds if prescribed.
Before and beyond attending to your sexual issues.
Or , in the second, you can control it without professiona help,- then do it . Use will strength, hypnosis, prayer, whatever works for you, but DO something, other than visiting strip joints.
- Back to your diabetes example. Yes, it's precisely like that . Sex is NOT like water, ( and this said by a very sexual person ). The quality of your life without sex is worse, of course, but it's not that there no is life without sex, or that it must be a life of utter misery.
I understand very well your desire to avoid another 20 years of sexual deprivation, same as I don't want to spend the next 20 years on a carbs- free diet, I love and want my pizzas and french fries every now and then.
But, back to your situation : you are married, and a higly moral person too.
So, -either you go back to singlehood, or - convince your wife to revamp your sex life ,- or accept to do without.
Cheating or semi-cheating with strippers and hookers is a solution you can't and should not even consider.
It's like saying : I need money, it's 3 months that my boss does not pay me, should I steal from the office safe ?
No. Either you quit and move on, or call a lawyer and drag your boss to court , or stay were you are and keep working honestly.
Basically, the unpaid worker needs to grow a pair, : choose a course of action and stick to it. Wringing his hands and lamenting that destiny is cruel, won't help , and will not necessarily grant him any empathy.
As for the devastating impact of retroactive jealousy, which many woman don't get . Oh no, I get it. I believe it must be very painful, very devastating.
And ? ...
Similarly, non smokers have no idea how devastating it is to quit smoking for someone with a 25 or 30 years cigarette habit. It IS devastating, the physical withdrawal symptoms disappear pretty soon, but the psychological ones are severe and last for a long long long time. You don't enjoy anythyng anymore, everything feels different and loses its appeal : food, sex, friends, everything. Whatever you do, you feel constantly tense and deprived.
And ?...
If you've got this bad habit and you've got to kick it,
that's YOUR problem, not your partner's or the media or the society, YOURS. You are the one that's got something to fix, don't seek scapegoats for something that's wrong with YOU. Not with your wife.
Your wife has not done anything abnormal, unforgivable, or morally wrong PER SE, who are you to judge and declare what she should have done BEFORE meeting you ?
If you knew ( as you knew ) that you had certain moral standards and ideals to which your future wife did not quite correspond- then you should simply have not married her.
You marry somebody because ( hopefully ) you love her and accept her how she is , warts and all. In your case, the warts were a couple of past indiscretions. Very ungenerous, and deceptive, accepting nominally just to "close the deal " and then begrudging later.
- Finally, I feel that your bad sexual life and your reatractive jealousy are 2 different and separate issues.
Suppose you had sex with your wife every day : what makes you sure you'd stop being jealous of her past ? Why should you ?
She still would have more experience than you, she still would have tried with other guys stuff that you did not try with other women, she still would have enjoyed sex more with those guys than with you. Nothing would change, because you can't change the past, and you could never catch up. Ergo, once again : either you can learn to accept her past- or you can't , and leave her.
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A
male
reader, Jmtmj  +, writes (25 May 2011):
 I think your question has become a bit hazy through largely irrelevant details...
You say that you don't think you can go another 20 years like this, fair enough, can understand that. So lets look at your options the way I see it- (anyone else feel free to fill the gaps).
Option one: Cheating on her... understandable, but not justifiable. Be a shame to live a life with strong moral values, only to throw them out the window half way through.
Option two: Sit her down, really talk to her. Personally I'd leave out her past as a topic- (she's heard it all before and realistically there isn't really anything she can do to change the past). Explain to her how important having a sex life is to you, how you can't go on like this, how unhappy you are and that if she won't see a marriage/sex counselor with you- that you can no longer be with her. Seriously, if she doesn't want to change things and you HAVE to change things to be happy, then that's what it boils down to here. There are other woman out there and as much as it must scare you- it is possible to find another to love. You have to grow a spine and be forceful in cutting through the bullshit... both yours and hers.
Option 3: Book a marriage/sex counselor in advance, then when the date comes- just drive her there. Cut out the whole excuses thing and take the direct route. If she refuses to even go inside- well you've got a pretty good indication of how little things are going to change for your relationship.
Option 4: Give up, get divorced, get a sex life.
Option 5: Talk to her about having an open relationship. Don't try to justify to her why you can sleep around but she can't. It doesn't work that way and you can bet your life that she won't agree to such a one sided agreement. No self-respecting woman would... regardless of how much you try to rationalize why you deserve to and she doesn't because she's already experienced other people. It was 20 years ago... even if she remembers past sex experiences, it'd be such a hazy and un-detailed memory that its no longer visually remembered, but simply remembered as an emotion or idea. Its not something she'd be fantasizing about to this day and ironically, you've spent more time thinking about something that shes experienced, than she has herself. That's a no-brainer.
Option 6: Stay with the woman you love, realize that her lack of sex drive (or whatever) is just one of the flaws that are just part of the package that make up who she is- yet you love regardless. Get a good internet connection- use porn to get yourself by.
Option 7: *help me out here if you see any more*
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A
female
reader, Orbiter  +, writes (25 May 2011):
Ok well to make it simple I would suggest this:- Set a deadline for her to change her behaviour, if she wants to save your marriage (as you do) then she needs to put in more effort. Make an appointment with a counsellor yourself. As I don't think you'll be able to solve the problem or that the issue will resolve itself on it's own. If you've already gone over the issue to the point where you've got nothing new to say. Simply tell her you're struggling to cope and if she doesn't go to this appointment it's over. I know it sounds a bit extreme but judging from your posts it sounds like it's got to that level.- If she goes good. Then you'll just have to wait and see how everything turns out.- If she doesn't, it's probably best to end things. I don't see your relationship lasting and you being able to cope if no changes are made. It also does show a lack of care about your feelings on her part.Personally I'd let this retroactive jealousy thing go. It sounds more like your mind is trying to create problems to get out of an unhappy relationship. If you get your sex life back and these thoughts still persist, then would be a time to consider if there are deeper issues.I don't think cheating is the answer here (e.g a vacation for you to discover yourself sexually). More than likely it'll make everything worse for everyone involved. You may as well end it sooner rather than later instead of drawing this problem out even longer.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): All the explaining and understanding in the world will not change the facts. Your wife already had a great sex life but it was not with you. Now she doesn't really intend to give you a decent sex life in the present or future either. She does not need "understanding", she needs to grow up and accept the consequences of her choices. If her past choices have not affected her future (like guys with retroactive jealousy are always being told) then the wife owes her husband a decent sex life and it's her fault she is not willing to deliver one. On the other hand if the wife's sexual past has left her emotionally screwed up about sex, then her past is indeed screwing up her future and it is her fault for making those bad past choices. Either way the conclusion is the same. The present situation is HER FAULT.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2011): Original poster here:
I know my first message was long, but even so I omitted some details. I originally wrote a much longer this time, but I decided to keep it much shorter both for you and to help maintain focus. I know that means that information will be omitted again, but you just have to take my word for certain things without explanation. Let me say that I am not posting here looking for sympathy. A bunch of syncophants won't help me with my problem. I am looking for perspective, which has been given. Thank you for that.
I have to say I am not surprised that the women don't *really* understand my predicament. That is always the case on the DC forums when this topic arises. That doesn't mean all advice they give is not worth hearing, but that there is some sort of basic disconnect between the sexes. It's how my own wife responds when we discuss this, like if somehow sex was chocolate and you really love chocolate but you have to give it up because you have diabetes. So what's the big deal? Give it up for your health. Have some sugar-free sorbet instead. It's not chocolate, but it is pretty good, too, and now you are healthy. However, men don't work that way and sex to many of us is more like water than chocolate. It's not a guilty pleasure, but something we need in order to remain happy and committed. Also, when it comes to past sexual experiences women have far fewer hangups. Maybe because they always assume men are pigs while men still have these cultural and social barriers to overcome wherein virginity was highly prized for so long.
I think women perceive some sort of double standard where men can have all the lovers they want while women have to remain virginal. That's true to some extent, which is why I think it is important to note that in this case I was the virgin and so I am not holding my wife to a higher standard than I hold myself to. It may be an impossible standard, but too often the reply is "That's *YOUR* problem, not hers. She is just a normal woman." Is it really normal for so many women (and reading the forums this is very common) to have so many flings and one night stands? If that is true, then I think it turns sexuality upside down and women are the promiscuous ones and men are the ones who want to settle down. Maybe this fact should be hammered into the heads of young boys in their formative years, because women (adult women) seem to take the high road but only after rolling in the gutter first. Being a guy I have a lot of male friends and have even overheard things not meant for me said by other guys and let me say that one night stands are not all that common for guys. Maybe for the sort of sleazy guys that most of us nice, normal guys get so upset about our wives sleeping with, but not for most of us. At a base level, guys want sex. They want regular sex. The best way to do that is to have a relationship. It is way too much energy to go hook up with a different woman each week unless you are very good-looking and equally as despicable. Women seem much more comfortable with having sex once to scratch an itch and then moving on. Perhaps because they can get sex whenever pretty much whenever they want it. This difference in perception is a shock to many men, I think, especially when we find things out only once we get serious with a girl and at that stage we are already spellbound. Now, at age 38, I know better, but that was a hard lesson to learn.
I want to clear up some misconceptions. Namely, that I am an immoral cheater looking out for myself and permission to cheat and that I was unable to have any other sexual experiences at a young age. I am a very honest and moral person, but like all people I have made mistakes. You should know that I am a decent and committed person given that I have been with my wife for 20 years even though our sex life is terrible and that I had an opportunity to cheat with an old girlfriend and chose not to. Likewise, if I was so unattractive that I "could not" have sex (rather than it being a choice) as Anonymous123 implied then I doubt my old girlfriend would have jumped at the chance to finally bed me. It was very much a choice and one that, prior to college, I do not regret as it allowed me to focus on school and achieve the professional and financial success I have now. I wish that maybe I had had the realization I have now while in college, however, and had experimented a little bit more prior to jumping into a sexless marriage, albeit with a woman I love.
I am not proud of going to strip clubs, but I went 5 times in 20 years and only in the last few years when I really felt beaten down by this whole issue and the sex stopped completely. In my mind it's rather a grey area as to whether that is cheating or not. Is every guy that goes to a bachelor party cheating on his future bride? Let's just say it is inappropriate and would be hurtful to my wife. Some may see it as cheating. She might. I see it as therapeutic in the way that porn is. (Yes, some women have problems with porn, too as I have read some posts here. I would never do any of this if I was getting some more than once every couple of years.) That doesn't excuse me, but to be honest if it helps me stay together with my wife I think it is worth it. I think that, unless she is intentionally withholding sex to drive me away in a passive-aggressive way (which she insists she is not), she is overall happy that we are together even if she may not want to know some of sordid and despicable ways I try to manage my sex drive. That was sort of the gist of my post, which is not really that I *WANT* to have an affair but that I'd do anything if it helps me keep my marriage alive and almost resorted to that heinous act in order to keep my head straight. The reality is it would've probably just messed things up, which is why I abstained. I *WANT* to have sex with my wife. I *WANT* her to be attracted to me and please me the way she did other men. If we were creating our own memories over the last decade I am not sure I'd care as much what she did in her past. I was jealous at first, but was able to mostly move past it by focusing on the fact that she was having sex with me now, but the reality is that we are not now and that is where my jealousy begins to interact with our other marital problems and my own sexual history. It's not really as cut and dried as some are insinuating. These issues stack on top of one another and exacerbate each other.
It's not that I prefer to have slept with another girl before I met my wife (which was against my morals) so much as I think that if I had it would've made staying together with her much easier and made for a stronger marriage. Back then when I was more idealistic and naive I would have never realized that rather than give my future wife a favor by waiting for her I was actually doing her and myself a disservice. I never expected that one year into college I would meet a girl and still be with her 20 years later and I didn't realize that my own lack of experiences at the ripe old age of 19 would haunt me 20 years later. Who expects that their 25 year old wife would stop having sex completely?
My wife was not too much different from me in that she went to an all-girls Catholic school, did not date despite being asked out all the time (except for prom which she felt she "had" to go to). These similar life experiences (up until college) and a shared focus on achieving goals at the expense of love and relationships are part of what appealed to me about her - and me to her. I liked the fact she hadn't had a lot of boyfriends and didn't date in high school. However, I have a real problem reconciling that with that two year period in college where she rather compromised her own morals by having casual sex outside of relationships. Maybe is was the wise thing to do or maybe she regrets it, but the reality is that it made her much more experienced and much more satisfied at this stage of her life than I am. The difference between a 19 year old and a 22 year old can be significant in retrospect. When she was 19 she was much in the place I was in with her and by the time I was 22 I was already in a 3 year relationship. Back then we talked about how we moved so fast and how both of us were forsaking some youthful experiences for each other, but it was love and it was real and I didn't want anyone other than her. The real problems started when she decided she didn't really want me - at least not in that way.
I mentioned in my original post that we have tried to work on the lack of intimacy. We talked the topic to death at one point. In fact, she's sick of it by now and so I rarely bring it up anymore. Maybe once a year, maybe less. Nothing changes. She says that she wants to stay together and she wants to have a sex life again, but she doesn't seem to make any effort and there is where actions speak louder than words. She's promised to go to a therapist several times, but she never does. Frankly, she seems mostly happy with the status quo and her personality is such that she'd rather ignore problems than deal with them. If I start "creating" problems for her (even obvious problems like pointing out that we never have sex!) then I just drive her further from the solution. I am ready to start going to therapy by myself, though.
To the person who said that maybe she doesn't want to lower me to the level of old boyfriends I think there is something to that. The sex changed once we moved in together and really committed versus when I would visit her at her place (or her mine). Familiarity may have played a part in it, too, but I think based on some things she has said that she feels that sex inside of a marriage and sex outside of a marriage are different and that she can't really let herself go with me or she will be judged - or, if not that, that she feels that our relationship operates at a higher level and she doesn't want to sully it with sordid sexual trysts that remind her of guys she would rather not think about. Like she can be a wife or a whore, but not both and she's not proud of her slut phase and she will be a bad wife or I will disrespect her if she admits that she likes kinky sex. One thing I have not done is try to convince her that it's okay to be a slut if it's with me. Sure, it's not as much fun as with a veritable stranger, but it can be more fun than she is having now. I am very open to trying new things in bed with her, but I don't think I've ever told her that in so many words just more along the lines of "Tell me what you want to do and maybe we can do it" which is not maybe as open of an invitation for her to say something kinky if that's really what gets her off. I know she talked about her bondage experience pretty positively when we were dating and we never did anything like that at all - not even close. That's probably because of both of our hangups, as it would feel weird to me to tie up my wife in that way and probably equally weird for her, but she did it with a strange man and I think I could do it with a strange woman were I ever in another relationship. It's weird how sometimes it is easier to interact with strangers than with those you love and respect, like you Dear Cupid readers to whom I am revealing things I would never tell my best friend.
Another thing that I think impacts us is that neither of us have all that much sexual experience and, just like I could really let loose with a stripper encouraging me in ways my wife does not, I think that she needs some encouragement from a more experienced man to bring out the nasty in her. Unfortunately, I am not that man. We did talk about this once, 16 years ago, when she blurted out that maybe if she was with another man her sex drive would ignite and carry over into our relationship, but I naturally flipped when she said that and she admitted it was a stupid thing to suggest. I could be that more experienced man by now if she had been putting out all of this time. Instead, I am probably even worse in bed now than I was then given that I get no practice. However, I am not sure I would be opposed to her going to see a male strip show. If it was therapeutic for me, it could be for her, too. I doubt she would even if I gave her the opportunity, though. I also considered suggesting porn, but I think she would think that even more gross.
Anyway, this is still really long and disjointed even though I deleted a lot of what I wrote. Sorry for not cleaning it up. Thanks for the advice.
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reader, Jmtmj +, writes (24 May 2011):
I actually think people are being a bit harsh to you so far. Yes, you've got some twisted logic which has been built up over the years, yes, you've got retroactive jealousy pretty bad, yes, you've started to rationalize to yourself why you should be able to experience sex outside of your marriage. But do you deserve the level of flak that you're getting... not in my opinion... I can't honestly say in your position that I wouldn't start to waver somewhat, no matter how faithful I considered myself to be to a partner.
Lets get one thing clear though... nothing you can say that your wife has/hasn't done over the years is going to justify to any sane person why you should be able to go all Hugh Hefner behind her back, (yet conveniently- why she can't do the same to you). Either you leave your wife and sow your oats or you stay with her, see a marriage/sex counselor and stay with the woman that you love.
I feel for you, I really do. Some people just don't get how devastating retro-active jealousy can be for a guy, (I liken it to how some guys just don't get how devastating their porn addictions can be for their girlfriends).
But if you think that you're justified or entitled to cheat on your wife- then you deserve all the flak that you're sure to get here.
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reader, serenity80 +, writes (24 May 2011):
Take her past out of this whole issue for a moment. You are basically are in a marriage where there are some serious problems. You should BOTH want to work on these, to have a happy relationship. Obviously she has some kind of problems she is not telling you about, about why she no longer wants to invest her time in having a fulfilling marriage. In my experience, a happy loving woman wants to please her man. Maybe it is your attitude towards her past that has left her feeling dirty and and not good enough?You need to both fix the sexless marriage, put up with it, or break up with her. You love her yes, but you are also unhappy, and have tormented yourself for 20 years! Do you know how tragic that sounds? I'm thinking breaking up, and you having more experiences with other women is what you need. The grass isn't always greener, but in your case, you need to man up and take some action about this problem.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2011): Women being more promiscuous while single and then being less sexual when they get a good respectful partner: It's unhealthy, unfair, and it breaks up relationships.Men trying to deal with retroactive jealousy by cheating on their partner: It's unhealthy, unfair, and it breaks up relationships.
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reader, Anonymous 123 +, writes (24 May 2011):
 You're living in a self proclaimed dream world, wherein you've painted yourself as the victim, your wife is the smart one who's had her romp in the sack and has now settled for you and your life is hell because it lacks that "one other girl". You want us to validate your statements and say," oh poor thing, chuck the wifey aside and go out and grab your share of fun now. Its never too late"
Sorry, thats not happening. You've chosen to be miserable. Why? Because you're not getting sex. Why? Because your attitude towards life and your wife must have driven her up the wall and into the chimney,and frankly, I dont blame her for not wanting to make love to you. If this is your unreasonable rant here, than what she must have endured at home with you, is unthinkable.
Look, everyone has a life before they meet their life partner. So did your wife. You cant grudge her of that just because you didnt get to do the same things. You didnt do anything not because of the moral stance, but because you couldnt. Thats where your anger lies. If it were for the moral ground, you wouldn't be licking strippers and letting them kiss your penis through your pants. Not that I'm judging you here, but let me ask you, which is more immoral? If you wanted to "wait for the right girl then", where has your judgement gone now? Oh wait...I forgot...you're blaming it on your wife's past!!
Please get a life and move beyond this make-belief nonsense that you've created. Your wife hasn't done anything horribly wrong, she just had her share of men BEFORE marriage. What you're doing now, is WRONG. You're cheating on her now with strippers, and then blaming her for it!!
You're ruining a perfectly good life for nothing. Get over your insecurities, seek professional help if required, at least see the picture clearly. You are the one who's got a twisted logic and you need to address your problem first. You cannot be 18 again and you cannot go back to being with "one other girl" before your wife. Stop having these delusions. Live in the present. Work on your marriage, dont make life more difficult for you OR for your wife, who you're putting through hell for no fault of hers!! You think she enjoys not making love to her husband? Have you ever thought about what she's going through?
You dont suffer from retroactive jealousy, you WANT TO suffer from it, to make you feel better your behavior. Your wife's partners were not better than you; if they were, she would have married one of them.
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reader, chigirl  +, writes (24 May 2011):
 I'm not the person who answers these questions the best. So I won't tell you all that I think around this, as I don't have any pity for you at all. But there are some illusions you're working by that are just illusions.
1. "That statement still rather eats at me, because I was attracted to her from the start. I wonder why she felt compelled to sleep with these other guys while I was just her friend. Were they more attractive to her? Were they more aggressive sexually with her? Was it just timing (right place and right time)? Probably all of the above. "
You're spinning yourself a little story about how and why she did this or that, trying to come up with some explanation for quite normal human behaviour. It isn't that complicated, but the simple truths of life are unappealing to you, you seek something greater, and so you make this illusion that there must have been something grand about the decisions she made. But hasn't she already told you why she slept with them? She's wasn't that into you when you first met. It happens. Don't take it personally that she didn't fall flat on the floor the moment she saw you.
2. "I know I can't turn back the clock, but I know I don't please her sexually as much as those other men did. They were more handsome and had a lot more sexual experience. "
No, you don't know this. Yet another illusion. It gives you some pleasure to think that you are a victim by her past, that she had better, you are not fulfilling etc etc. What joy does it give you to think like this and feel like this? Some of us are addicted to the pleasure of pain.. and I think you're rolling around in it, creating a problem where there is none, by creating these illusions.
In fact, she's not the one who's had better sex... You are the one who's not getting good sex. She doesn't do things with you, and you have to use condoms all the time. There are other ways of contraceptives that are not hormonal and are not condoms. A spiral for example, inserted by the doctor. A baby-comp, that measures body temperature and memorizes the cycle of the woman so that she will not get pregnant.
http://www.raxmedical.com/babycomp.php
There are many things you can do to improve your sex life. So my question to you is, when this bothers you so much, and I understand why... why on earth have you not addressed it??? It can be fixed!! It is far cheaper than buying condoms as well!
Why aren't you having unprotected sex though, you never wanted a family with children? I know it's not related to the issues you have... just a question.
The third illusion you have is that you feel left out. You're not. You've had sex, you're married, you've done what most of us do. It is an illusion that you're missing out on something.
"I really need my wife to engage in some of those sexual experiences she did with other men, because it makes me feel lesser that I am the one loving her all of these years and overlooking her graying hair and yet they are the ones with memories of her I never had."
Listen, you're not the only one who never gets to share every tiny little bit of memory with your partner. The only way you could have shared every itsy bitsy thing with her was if you were born Siamese twins. My boyfriends have done things for their exes, things they wont do for me. It's because people are different. You're different. Doesn't make you less, it just makes you different. If she wont do things with you, you should ask her why, and understand this, instead of being selfish and saying you want you want you want. It's a give and take. If there's something you want to experience for your own sake thats fine, but if it's something you want done simply to be on the same "level" as previous guys... then it is wrong. Besides, the last illusion you have is that these men were better than you. What if you're the one who's better than them, and she doesn't want to lower you to their level? Think about it.
Does your wife know you've cheated on her with the strippers?
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (24 May 2011):
I am a bit disappointed. After reading all the long, intense, and detailed first part, the end is a bit of an anticlimax , to me. I can't shed the suspect, that , basically ,you just want someone to tell you : Sure, you poor lamb. You got ill -used, you deserve some good sexy fun too. Go ahead, book that escort, visit that erotic massage parlour , you are entitled to it, seen your wife's attitude. And the strippers kissing your dick through your pants ? Oh that's nothing, it's nowhere like cheating, you don't need to feel bad about it.I also suspect that you already know that this is not how it works among mature,honest people. The idea would be FIRST you try anything under the sun to get out of this sexual impasse. Talk to yor wife, make her understand that she is hurting you and jeopardizing a good marriage- send her see a counselor- go together to a sex therapist- ask yourself if there are unexplored, unexposed conflicts between you that translate into lack of passion ( it happens more often than you'd think, sex , basically, it's a metaphore for other stuff ). AFTER, once you have tried all your best and everything has failed, you DO make up your mind once and for all : either you divorce and find yourself somone you can be more compatible with - maybe keeping your wife as a good friend ( because basically that's what she is already ), or you decide you've got too much to lose, stay put and try sublimating your sexual energy into other stuff. Very imperfect solutions, both. Yes. Life IS imperfect. Very seldom it let us have our cake and keep it too . So either you decide that a sexless marriage is not even a marriage anymore ( wouldn't blame you, I'd feel the same ) - or , you decide that keeping your marriage intact takes priority over your sexual needs. You will notice that this does not answer at all your question about retroactive jealousy and chocolate syrup and Bjs etc.etc., does not even touch the subject.Yes, it's on purpose; Again, quite frankly this retroactive jealousy feels to me like a sort of red herring to justify your passive-aggressive stance in this predicament. Then, it seems to me that you have enough problems on your plate NOW with your wife without going back 20 years and over .
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