A
female
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:I'm 25, and I'm here to discuss pornography and men.Some but not all men complain their women don't look like porn stars/models etc. but how come women don't do the opposite and ask for 6-packs/chiselled bodies / big penises etc? Or if they do, well, it's usually a private joke amongst the girlfriends.I'll admit, I've never been turned on by "pretty boys", as most of the ones I've met, obviously not all, tend to have an overinflated ego and think they can get any woman they want; I like more "geekish", bookish men whose personality comes first, and they tend to treat women with respect more. From my experience, they're less into porn unless you consider those who see dominatrixes etc. (CSI viewers will know what i mean). I've even dated some who've had Asperger's syndrome, and they tend to be for the most part, less concerned about appearances and porn issues, more about the emotional side of relationships.Basically, I'm discussing double standards here.I'm in a relationship with a geek; he's got Asperger's and is a brilliant, kind, caring guy. He doesn't use porn and isn't really a fan of it (unless you count liking pictures of people on Flickr.com, ordinary people in crowds etc., not pornographic images and celeb pics of Cobie Smulders, Nicole Scherzinger (? - is it spelt properly) and Famke Janssen) and is happy for me to point out other men I think are attractive to him - he says it gives him that incentive to stop himself going out of shape. He does the same with women to me but I don't complain... I'm trying to look like either Lauren Ambrose or Cobie Smulders [being a natural redhead and all!] - only because I do it to him. Yet we have an equal and healthy relationship, which is loving. We've been together 18 months now and our relationship is excellent.I'm just wondering, what's your thoughts on the matter and do you agree with my opinion?
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male
reader, N91  +, writes (5 October 2011):
 I literally have never met anyone who thinks like that.....not quite sure what people you know that obsess over their other half looking like a porn star.
Personality Looks
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (1 October 2011): Given that I look just like all the male porn stars out there, I was very disappointed to learn that all these women who look just like porn stars that I've been having sex with just like in all the pornos don't actually think that I'm attractive, and don't actually like my chisled abs and huge male member.
Will someone please pass me the geek classes so I can look just like all the geeky hot guys and hook up with all the geeky hot women like everyone on network TV does?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): You could easily turn this around and ask: if men couldn't care less about a woman's income, occupation, confidence level, or the type of car she drives, why do women care so much about all these things? Do you know any guy who refuses to date anyone who doesn't look like a cover model the way women refuse to date insecure or jobless men?Men are in fact way more open-minded and tolerant towards women than women are open-minded and tolerant towards men. There are websites catering to male fans of fat girls, old women, hairy women, dominants, submissives, rich, poor, and everything in between. But you'll never see a dating site for women to meet shy, poor men who live with their parents.A woman who is at least average looking will be approached no matter what. If she were poor and worked as a street cleaner, it would make no difference. Guys look for inner and outer beauty; that is what they notice, not the quality of someone's watch or shoes, or the kinds of positions on their resume. Women do have a higher beauty standard to live up to. But if women were instead judged on income and self-confidence as men are, I think far more of them would end up alone.My friend recently lost his job and, apparently along with it, every shred of respect his wife had for him. He is sincerely worried she will divorce him. When asked if he would consider divorcing her if she gained a ton of weight, he said of course not. Women are the choosy, intolerant ones. They instigate the vast majority of breakups and divorces. They are much more likely to be disappointed in their partners for not living up to their standards than vice versa.So worrying about not looking like a porn star is a pointless pressure you place on yourself. Women don't realize how good they have it, how accepting men are. But if you're a man with a low paying job and quiet personality who bikes to work, now THAT is something to worry about because you have a lifetime of loneliness staring you in the face if you don't shape up and meet women's expectations.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (30 September 2011):
 I don't get the question either. You aren't asking if men want porn stars, you're asking if men want women who look a certain way, and why women supposedly don't do this? While at the same time you say women DO do this, although just as a joke between friends?
Really? I don't see what you are getting at at all. People like different things. If a person is with another while secretly wishing they were with someone who looked completely different then they are a douche. But this isn't related to porn. Nor is it related to any certain type of man, geek or "pretty boy".
Women and men are equals in this aspect. And I don't get what a porn star-look is supposed to be either. Porn stars or porn amateurs come in all shapes and sizes. What exactly is this porn star-look? Or even model-look? Models looks just like us normal people, except they're often very tall and thin. However they're just as normal as you and me in every other aspect... Often, models have special features that make them look DIFFERENT from the rest, and these features are often things they were bullied for in school! Like a large nose, or a gap between their teeth (which have become so popular lately in fashion), or flat noses, or enormous eyes or big ears or frizzly hair, you name it. Take away the make-up, fancy clothes and photoshopping, and you wouldn't be able to recognize one on the street.
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female
reader, person12345  +, writes (30 September 2011):
 Most porn is catering to a straight male fantasy meaning the women are going to be exaggerated versions of stereotypically hot women to turn men on with pudgy unappealing men to avoid turning them off by being threatening. Not to mention the majority of mainstream pornography today shows violence against women, so I don't know too many women who want a violent ugly guy with a penis so big it looks painful.
The reason there is more pressure in general for women to be attractive is because in general, women are judged almost entirely on appearance (other qualities pretty much always come second) whereas men, while they still are judged on appearance, are permitted to have other qualities be more important than appearance.
I don't think many men verbally or even consciously compare their own wives/girlfriends to porn actresses and any who do are not worth being in a relationship with. But it's extremely clear from several decades of research that viewing porn absolutely decreases a person's satisfaction with their own partner's appearance (as well as their performance in bed). So obviously there is some of that going on, even if it's not conscious.
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female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (30 September 2011):
 Some times I get the feeling I don't live not only in the same continent as some posters ( well, that's true, I don't ) but in the same age, society and planet.
I don't know ONE man who'd be caught dead with a pornstar looking gf. I don't know ONE man who thinks that Jenna Jamison or someone like her is the most attractive girl on earth. Who knows, maybe our Prime Minister, who notouriously has a a thing for escorts,would - but even his girls look way different ( and better ) than porn industry workers.
I have no doubt that some of these men , behind closed doors, may at times happily wank away in the company of Jenna and her colleagues. So ? That's just flesh- masturbation fodder. What ges your gonads going is not the same as your ideal of beauty and femininity.
I am sure that quite some women may have, or have had, satisfying close encounters with a nice cucumber , or a carrot, or zucchini. That too can surely get your gonads going and do the trick allright. But I don't think any woman wants to date a cucumber , or think it is her ideal of beauty.
So, I have to admit I don't know what you are talking about . I never met anybody who'd wish his wife or gf looked more like a porn star . In a range that includes both geeks and pretty boys.
If you are recurring into this problem of often being compared negatively to porn stars, or of ending up with guys obsessed with porn style " beauty "- who knows, maybe you have just being hanging out with the wrong crowd. Maybe you just have been unlucky, or you have not been selective enough, you have chosen people with much different ( and cheaper and rougher ) tastes than yours in everything, not just looks.
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female
reader, Gabrielle Stoker +, writes (30 September 2011):
 I've never met a guy who said that, honestly, not even when I actually was a porn...well I'd hardly say "star", so let's leave it at that.
Neither, to be honest, do I want a man who looks like Rocco, Nacho Vidal or, God forbid, Ron Jeremy.
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male
reader, Jmtmj  +, writes (30 September 2011):
 "Some but not all men complain their women don't look like porn stars/models etc"
I can honestly say that I have NEVER EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE heard any guy complain that his girlfriend doesn't look like a porn star. EVER.
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male
reader, serenity80 +, writes (30 September 2011):
I have not, at any time in my past, ever come across either a man who has wanted his girlfriend to look like a porn star, or a girl who has said that her boyfriend wants her to look like a porn star.
I suspect you are drawing on your own personal experiences and making wildly, inaccurate - and actually, rather offensive conclusions.
Your argument is totally flawed. You complain that some men want their girlfriends to look like porn stars, then you state that women aren't they same. But then you say "if they do, it's a private joke". So what is it then? Do women want their men to look physically the best, or not?
You clearly state that you are more in to the "geekish" bookish men, who have so-called more personality, than they do looks. That is your preference. Good for you. But do not generalise that "ugly" guys have better personalities; it's simply not true.
You know what? I think your question has grown out of your own insecurities about how you look. You know what else? If your boyfriend doesn't find other women - including porn stars - sexually attractive, then there is probably something very wrong with him. More likely though, is that you are living in a bubble of total ignorance and don't actually know your boyfriend at all.
So you keep trying to look more like Lauren Ambrose, or Cobie Smulders, whoever they are, and go on making huge sweeping generalisations about all the other men out there, and how your boyfriend is so special, but, don't expect to share your views to other people without getting called up on the fact you are grossly wrong about men.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): I wouldnt want some 1980s, huge moustached boyfriend/husband - I would be permanantly laughing at him and expecting him to groan in appropriate place and say 'oooh baby'
Thats my view anyway, so why on earth would a man want the female version? Only some shallow,vain half wit would!
Be the best you can be...dont turn into a Waynetta..we all have idols or a fantasy but thats all they are, I wouldn't expect George Clooney or Ray Winston to ask me out nor would I want a lookalike that every wanton female chases!!
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (30 September 2011):
 I totally get the meaning of your question, but I've just gotta say...UGH. Male porn stars look utterly NASTY. No way would I ever want a guy who looked like one of them. Many times, they're significantly less easy on the eye than their plastic counterparts. Just look up Ron Jeremy. Truly gag reflex inducing.
I get what you mean though. I've seen enough John Candy and Chris Farley movies to know that no matter how "less than pretty" the guy movie star looks, he has to have a thin, leggy girlfriend. Society is less forgiving of a woman who is not quite so easy on the eye. Look at the cartoon Family Guy or Simpsons. Yes, I know they're cartoons, but what do both of them have in common? Ugly, overweight bulbous guys with thin, leggy big busted women.
So why aren't the standards of looks that society holds for men nowhere near the ones that society expects from women? And truly, other women are even more critical of their own than even the men are. You hear much less regarding eating disorders from men.
Maybe I just went a little off the subject, but it's a good question.
Personally personality and character, not looks, are my most important attractors. Oh yeah...hygiene rates high for me too. Greasy looking guys who smell like yaks might cause me to pause before accepting a dinner date. heh.
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male
reader, Odds +, writes (30 September 2011):
 @ Anon
Hmmm. Your ex sounds like he needs to think before he speaks. While I still wouldn't generalize, I'd say that in your case, yeah, he wasn't being realistic - or polite.
"I honetlt think women a totally right to FEEL compared if a man behaves like this."
Sure, some delicacy should be expected of the guy. There's a difference between watching a pretty girl walk down the street and telling the mother of your children that the girl was hot, unprompted. I think it'd be fair to say not to hold a man responsible for his thoughts, but for actions - so, if you feel like he's comparing you, but he's keeping his mouth shut and still loving, that's fine; if he's being an ass after you have a breast removed, that's another. Looks fair at first glance to me.
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male
reader, dougbcoll +, writes (30 September 2011):
 i don't want my wife to look like a porn star. she would have to step down several levels and look cheap. those women do not reflect real life, and neither do the men. a person can take care of them self for their partner and look good without being held to a standard of a perfect body. as long as both people in a relationship are happy with each other,s body ,and honest with each other that is all that count,s .
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): HAHAHAHA!!!! omg, you rock girl! The next time any boyfriend of mine complains about this, I am going to complain right back! Hehehe I am evil.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): Odds, can I just say I don't want my husband to be "younger and hotter" nor do I want him to be richer.I want him to be EXACTLY who he is! I think many women feel like this. So why is it so many men "want" their wives to look like porn stars?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): Hi Odds, sure I don't mind you asking. He is an ex after all lol. The context was for example ( cause it happened more than once) whilst looking at one of these women in porn and stating " I wish you had a body like that" or " look at her , not a single stretch mark " etcOf course I would tell him she probably hasn't had four babies but ad far as he wa concerned this didn't matter. I'm not the only one who has experienced this , I've had a couple of friends tell me things their partners have said too one classic was my friend who had a breast removed due to cancer , her husband likes to make a point of pointing out large breasted women to his wife and saying things like whoa look at those!!! When told he is brainy insensitive he apologizes (until next time) Unfortunately , although what you say may be correct about men not "expecting " their wives to look like porn stars , many many men compare. Although they may deny it, the way try lust after the porn stars gives away and FEELS like a comparison.I honetlt think women a totally right to FEEL compared if a man behaves like this.
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male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (30 September 2011):
 Mostly, we want our women to BEHAVE like porn stars. We'll give you a "free pass" if you don't happen to LOOK exactly like one......
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female
reader, Nime +, writes (30 September 2011):
 Come on, we women put way, way, way more pressure on each other to look good than men do. Go to any checkout line of any grocery store and look at all the magazines with slender, sexy, airbrushed women on the covers. Cosmopolitan, Seventeen, Elle, etc. Who buys these magazines? Not men! One of the commenters here said "the media supplies what men want" in reference to images of young sexy female bodies. Yet currently Western women hold something like 80-85% of purchasing power and, companies knowing this, the vast majority of advertising and media is aimed at WOMEN. It's WOMEN who let these images of young nubile female perfection guide their preferences in everything from fashion, to television shows, to makeup, to books, to music, and so forth. Ladies, if you want things to change, use your purchasing power! Buck the norm!As for men who expect their women to look like porn stars, I don't know any, but I'm sure they're out there. Why? Because assholes exist -- in both genders! It is up to YOU to protect yourself from these people, to rise above what they say and exercise some self confidence -- not point the finger at men in general and act the victim. I have a LOT to say on this subject but I will stop here and agree with everything Odds said.
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reader, Odds +, writes (30 September 2011):
"The media supplies what men want. how can you possibly claim this is not a comparison. Sure , it's unspoken but it's still a comparison with the message being sent that if given a choice of what to look at, this is the type of female body we deem superior."
I think you're missing my point. There is a difference between what kind of woman a man finds most attractive, and what he expects of his own, individual wife/girlfriend. You're telling me that because attractive women are on the covers of magazines, that ever man obviously *expects* his wife to look that way? You say yourself it's "unspoken," perhaps the reason it's unspoken is because most men realistically understand that their wife isn't going to look that way, and are okay with it?
In fairness, I probably should have said "most men understand this," rather than leaving it unsaid and implying all men, but hopefully it still came across as a generalization.
True, women feel social pressure to be beautiful (men feel social pressures too, but we'll focus on the beauty thing in order to avoid this discussion devolving into a useless pissing contest). It seems to me you're attributing your feelings of general social pressure to be an individual man's responsibility. It also seems to me that you're conflating *desires*, which are out of our personal control, with *expectations*, which are well within our control. It'd be like me saying, "women expect their husbands to be rich," compared to saying, "women want their husbands to be rich." The latter is true, but it's meaningless if the woman has realistic expectations for her individual husband. Who wouldn't want their wife to be the exact same, but younger and hotter, or for their husband to be the exact same, but richer and more confident? Anyone would, but most people are realistic enough not to expect this.
Even when there are spoken comparisons, the difference between desires and expectations applies. And even then, the source matters - what a random person says in general should matter much less than what our own significant other says.
"...my ex complained that my body had stretch marks and my boobs derby like Jennas..."
Sorry about your ex; if it's not too personal, may I ask the context of this conversation?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): What I think you aren't saying, but perhaps indirectly implying is that you find men's attraction to pornography and porn stars somewhat anxiety provoking...and perhaps you feel pressure to live up to standards of these porn stars and other actresses? I think the same "in private" dynamic in which you describe women expressing their tastes for men in private also holds for men. For instance, I think there are plenty of men who would love to watch and praise the looks of an actress they see in a porno or some scantily dressed stranger they see with their buddies. I actually see that a lot in the city I live in. But would they want their girlfriend to dress or act in the same way? Unlikely.
Women throw the double standard argument about appearances around a lot...but I often think that standard is self imposed by women. If you don't want to feel the pressure of living up to some untenable female body image, then don't watch these celeb shows or buy beauty magazines.
Are looks more important to men?..Probably. I'm not totally sold on evolutionary theory, but I think men tend to respond more to physical appearance on a biological level...but like women, I think they have priority lists and looks aren't always at the top. If they are, they usually turn off women like yourself. Perhaps looks are less of a priority to woman, but I have to say when I see a woman with a skeevy looking guy twice her age, I'm not thinking that she has a heart of gold and loves him for his personality...
It sounds like you have found a relationship where you don't have to worry about that ... You can talk about other people being attractive without a blow up, so good for you. He doesn't watch porn, which you seem to appreciate. All that said, I wouldn't try to look like Lauren or Cobie (not that I know who they are), but if this perceived double standard bothers you, I would watch less TV and stop trying to aspire toward celebrities.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 September 2011): Lol , Odds is obviously oblivious to what MANY o us women go through. Many many guys compare and complain that we dont look like porn stars. As a woman who is not overweight or frumpy, my ex complained that my body had stretch marks and my boobs derby like Jennas after I had HIS four babies.Odds, in all due respect , please dint tell women that we don't experience the comparisons, ad many of us do. This can take the form of overt comments or more subtle ways. A classic example is a mom walking into a news shop only to see the plethora of 20 year old bushy bimbos on the porn rack. This is what many men pay for. The CHOOSE the image of these pre baby bodies rather than the real looking bodies of the typical mom and wife. The media supplies what men want. how can you possibly claim this is not a comparison. Sure , it's unspoken but it's still a comparison with the message being sent that if given a choice of what to look at, this is the type of female body we deem superior.Sure there's diversity offered on the net if men look for it but we all know the image if the "porn star" in mainstream porn.Now back to the OP . I think men are this way because society sends the message of women as less than human, playthings to be compared and judged . Of course , as women our role is to accept nothing less than respect and condoning porn certainly doesnt hold men to any high standards of treating us well.
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reader, JustHelpinAgain +, writes (30 September 2011):
Well, the section of the male population that needs to pay for porn obviously has a specific taste, hence the stereotype, but this doen't represent all men. Porn helps when away from my wife but I seek out women that remind me of my wife. Most men will show some level of interest in watching a naked women. I don't get turned on if its obvious the woman is faking, or worse, being clearly abused. I expect if I were much younger I wouldn't have been so fussy. Seems to turn my wife on more than me actually !!
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reader, Odds +, writes (30 September 2011):
"Some but not all men complain their women don't look like porn stars/models etc."
I call BS. What man is doing that? The most any man I know of asks is that his wife/girlfriend look her best; i.e., not be fat or frumpy. Leaving aside the fact that there are many popular types of porn besides the traditional blonde/big boobed ones, just because a man finds that look attractive does not mean that he's upset his wife/girlfriend doesn't look like that.
"...how come women don't do the opposite and ask for 6-packs/chiselled bodies / big penises etc?"
Some do, but I get that we're talking about generalizations, and I agree that most don't. I think that's because appearances do not occupy the equivalent positions on each gender's list of preferences - in other words, if you asked each gender what they wanted out of the other in order from one to ten (and could magically compel them to be honest), a man might rate looks as #2 or 3, below loyalty and sex drive; at the same time, a woman might rate it, say, #6, behind confidence, money, social status, and other things.
Obviously all those numbers are speculative - I've seen surveys ranking those things, and I don't believe them because too many people either lie to make themselves look better, or they say what they feel like they *should* want rather than what they really do.
The point being that, in general, it's not that women have lower standards overall, it's that other things (some shallow, some not) are occupying the top slots rather than looks.
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