A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:Our 3 year old is very intelligent. He can write his name, sing the alphabet and ride a bike without training wheels. He is an excellent talker and even uses big words to describe things in detail. HOWEVER, he is mean to our dog. I keep threatening to give the dog away and I do mean it. I don't want to, but I will. The thing is that our son is mostly nice to the dog, but every once in a while does something mean. He pulls his hair, kicks him and taunts him. Our dog is a 3 pound mini pomeranian and the sweetest thing ever. The dog never gets aggressive with my son. Today, while I was in the bathroom for about 3 minutes, my son accessed the cleaning products (that are way up on a closed shelf in the laundry room), cornered the dog and sprayed him repeatedly in the eyes and all over his fur. When I came on the scene, the dog was soaked and shaking. I ran him to the bath, scrubbed him down and cleaned all the chemicals off him and called our family vet. I rinsed the dogs eyes out with saline and spent extra time comforting the dog so he would calm down. I sent my son to his room and he has been in his room for 4 hours. I fed him lunch and a snack and sat with him to talk about what he did. He started laughing and saying it was funny. I told him that it was horrible and that he can't treat animals like that. I told him that the chemicals stung the dogs eyes and hurt him. My son said he would never do it again, but seemed to not really care. I don't know what to do, I am so upset. I am not sure how to punish my son. Reply to this Question
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (2 September 2009): As a mother of an almost 3 year old boy, I feel that I need to respond to this. Please don't be upset about people suggesting that your son is a sociopath or that you should spank him. First, he's 3 years old, the age when almost everything a child does is to test their boundaries, most of which you, the parent, are setting. So, if your son does something shocking, is it really such a shock, when he has no clue what morals are until you teach him what right and wrong is? Who knows what he'll be in the future, but for now, why label him as psychotic when it seems to me that he's just pushing you as far as he can to figure out what's allowed and what's not allowed? He doesn't know that toxic chemicals can kill a small pet, anymore than another 3 year old knows that he can die from drinking those same chemicals. It's not sadistic, he just hasn't learned yet. So, teach him, obviously. That should be his discipline at this age, because from what I've read about child development in college, usually, kids this age won't necessarily connect the physical pain you're inflicting with the action that you want them to correct. I guess it depends on the individual child, but what I usually do is sit my son on my lap and force him to look me in the eyes while I explain in normal language why he shouldn't do what he did. He may not understand my words completely yet at this point, but I do see shame in his eyes. A 3 year old is attached to a parent emotionally. I believe that most kids at this age are going to feel shame because you show that you are disappointed in their behavior. Also, it's important to use positive reinforcement as often as possible because it will provide more contrast so that when you need to offer negative reinforcement, there will me more impact. 2-3 year olds are constantly testing parents, as well as looking for their approval, so use both positive and negative reinforcement often. Spanking is personal choice, but I have never spanked my son and he is generally a wonderfully sweet child with the usual 2-3 year old moments. Speaking of, my son ADORES animals. He hugs and kisses them. However, I do have to keep my eye on him around animals because he doesn't realize that pulling on the cat's fur hurts, or chasing the baby chickens can separate them from their mother and they can die. To my son, it's all just part of experiencing life; learning, playing. He has to learn how to behave with animals, and I am the one who teaches him those behaviors. He tries things like this, even though he obviously loves animals (hugging and kissing them). So, I think that it's wrong to assume that he's going to be a serial killer because of this "animal cruelty". I think that your son was just trying something out or testing what you would allow him to do, not understanding the consequences of his actions. Teach him. Keep putting him in timeout, and keep talking to him about it until he gets it.
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female
reader, birdynumnums  +, writes (2 September 2009):
 ...and I was raised by a woman who put me on a leash, kicked me when I was curled up in a fetal position when I was six and sent me outside to clean up trash when I was naked, at the age of ten, because it might upset the neighbors...
I have two kids, 23 and 27, who both intend to swat their children on the behind, when it is called for. I find THAT very interesting, simply because they are so young and haven't succumbed to the mindset that corporal punishment is always wrong because they don't personally think that they would be abusive or apply it mindlessly, or with excessive force.
There is Nothing wrong with fearing disappointing your parents, or fearing punishment.
There IS something TERRIBLY wrong with fearing their footsteps in the hall and wondering what they will do to you, that is an ENTIRELY different thing...
They are both successful, a marketing analyst and a fashion designer, with many friends, and one is in a successful relationship - AFTER BEING SWATTED IN THE BUM. Why? Because I didn't abuse them, and THEY KNEW RIGHT FROM WRONG. What the hell are YOU teaching YOUR kid, aside from a total lack of compassion?
And, God Bless All the Aunties out there who know the difference between a swat on the bum and abuse. God knows I do. My grandmother threw my uncle down the stairs and broke his arm, my mother terrorized me and my husband has repeatedly told me that I have broken the mold of abuse in my family.
AND I totally agree that you have withheld information just to trump the advice that people on this site have bothered to write back to you about. I have no idea how many times you have written, or under what names, but some of the people who have answered you have written more than a thousand answers, with the hopes of helping by sharing their opinions, not by knocking them down.
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reader, pinktopaz +, writes (1 September 2009):
I know, I know. My parents are awful parents for ever spanking me or my sisters...in fact they should have never had us, those psychos! We should have definitely been brought in to CPS and been kept in foster homes. That would have been a much better option, because boy, my parents were awful people, how dare they try to disciplines us?! Especially me when I would go around and hit people on the head with my toys because I thought it was funny and didn't get the hint to even stop until I got spanked. I wish I was never born! My parents should be in jail!
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): You asked for people on how to punish your son, yet you're upset that people suggested spanking? Then don't ask! You're so educated and know so much about children, never physically punish them, and claim people who do spank their children should never have any...yet you leave chemicals laying around the house for your son to get into. What if he decided to ingest it instead? Hmmm, not good parenting either. And in the future, if you have such a problem with advice here, then consider going to a parenting site instead of a relationship site...it's simple really.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): Get back down off your high Horse, you posted the question and got a response. Its advice take it or leave it.Something which you need to be aware off is that if this poor dog ever does flip out and nip your son then he will have to be put down. You make a big song and dance about how intelligent your son is, well if his that intelligent explain to him that doing nasty things to the dog will have nasty consequences, and if you post a question here again then take or leave the advice .
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): MY FOLLOW UP ON MY SON and OUR DOG.........................................
First of thanks to all of you for writing in, however, I am shocked that so many of you suggest corporal punishment or start talking about my son having issues. What is wrong with you people? Eww. My son is a good little boy and generally caring in every way. There have been times that my son was outside with the dog on a hot day and was playing squirt guns. The dog was LOVING it! He was chomping at the water and running into it and my son was laughing. I am quite sure that my son didn't realize that the chemicals in the spray bottles could hurt the dog. He's certainly not a sadistic child. I am just disgusted that so many of you would go from 0 to 10 in your responses instead of being more rational. I'm glad I posted this because there were some of you that actually made sense (examples: rythmnblues2, cgrlygo).
Just to let you know, I talked with my son after he got out of his room and he asked me if what he did could, "make the dog dead like if a big dog bit him." I said yes and he started to cry. He said he, "loves Tommy"...that is our dogs name and doesn't want me to give him away. He walked the dog with us last night instead of riding his bike and this morning he woke up and played with the dog for a good hour and then fed him his food while petting him gently. I think he does realize what he did and I am happy to say, that I am proud of the responsibility he is displaying over the dog.
Yesterday, I was upset NOT because I thought my son was sadistic, but because I wasn't sure which punishment would get the point across because he is so little. We are talking about a kid who freaks out if you kill a spider or step on an ant in front of him. He doesn't like the idea of things dying or being hurt.
I am really disappointed in the dramatic and irrational way some of you responded. If I have learned anything, it is to go with my gut and steer clear of using other people's advice to raise kids.
I think you should know, that if you wrote about corporal punishment or that my son is sadistic, you probably shouldn't be leaving advice for people with children because quite frankly, you are not education enough in the matter to leave appropriate advice and could ultimately give poor advice to someone with a perfectly normal child. For those of you who think that corporal punishment is okay, I hope to God that you don't have children - EVER. Hitting a child is abuse and teaches them to hit their own kids some day. I am sick to death of seeing stories of children on the news who have been injured or beaten or worse by an adult. If you recommended "whooping" or hitting my child, you are sick and you should be the one seeking help.
As for those of you who left sound, logical advice - thank you for taking the time to write in. I truly appreciate it and thank you for your kind words.
I must go now as my son is playing quietly in his sandbox now with the dog digging up his toys as he buries them. He is laughing and I'm quite sure the dog is having a grand time!
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): Don't give him any treats until he's nice to him. x
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): the 3 year old is having sadistic tendencies from an early age - maybe you need to speak to a child phychologist.
i don't know what sort of punishment should be meted out to him but at least your instincts are telling you to be concerned about his behaviour. good one mum!
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reader, SugarCookie +, writes (1 September 2009):
OK this is normal. I was just like your son super smart and mean to pets. Now I am the biggest animal lover you would meet. I think taking the dog away would be wrong this dog is so great its sadly the perfect learning tool because it doesn't attack. Your son is trying stuff and learning in a not so nice way. First off you need to find a better way to hide chemicals getting something that you can lock them in is a good idea because I am sure if your son is not climbing yet it will happen very soon. Next, this might sound a little harsh but punish your son in a physical way. If he kicks the dog have him kick himself. (Dont let him get away with a weak kick it wont prove the point) If he smacks the dog have him smack himself and so on so that he understands how it feels and can learn empathy. He will grow out of this stage. Dont get rid of a perfectly good pet keep an eye on the two and teach him whats ok with the dog. I had a cat that I loved to hug sadly i didn't understand to not hug it by the neck and its something my parents taught me. You have to teach him the positive behavior and explain the negative through hands on. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): I am going to give you the best gift ever.....
The Portable Pediatrician for Parents: A Month-by-Month Guide to Your Child's Physical and Behavioral Development From Birth to Age Five ...by Laura Nathanson Walther (Author)
www.amazon.com/Portable-Pediatrician.../dp/0062731769 -
this book gave me so much normal in site into my crazy (what seemed to be) children... it helped me to learn how to be a normal parent..
also.. you cannot punish a 3 year old... his attention span is about 3 min. this book is very cheap at about 2.00 now.
you view it as hurting the dog but he is at a stage of action vs. reaction... he sees when he does something there is a reaction...
if i jump up and down mommy laughs... if i spray the dog it yelps...
he does not view good or bad for very long.. please relax mom.... he is not going to torture animals for all his life. and if he had a sister.. she would get some of the learning lessons as well. So with that being said... do not use empty threats as a form of teaching.
if he were being mean to dad, would you get rid of him?
no, of course not...
get the book or check it out at a local library... it will help... i swear by it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): One thing about a three year old's development....a three year old has not developed empathy for others, that usually happens around the age of 6 for boys and for girls it is often later, around the age of 7. A three year old can reason a little bit more than a two year old however, and they like to be given choices. More than two choices is overwhelming, but you give the three year old some choice in behavior....for instance, he kicks the dog, then you tell him he has a choice of petting the dog nicely, that his behavior of kicking the dog is bad, naughty and his other choice is going to his time out place and doing nothing for x minutes (set a timer) and he has to apologize to you and the dog.....
A three year old wants to please you, they want some choices and they even can start "helping" you so they feel important. Also, try rewarding good behavior with the dog, comment on when he is especially nice and how the dog is feeling at that time. Three year olds have to be taught empathy and about feelings.
He is too young to be diagnosed as a sociopath, he hasn't developed empathy yet, therefore he doesn't understand his behavior as right and wrong, but he will pay attention to you and what it takes to PLEASE you.
All that said, I hate thinking of the dog as a teaching tool and being mistreated....if you decide to do it this way, seperate the dog and the child (locks on the door) and only allow supervised visitation like being on parole...and when your child takes naps or goes to bed, your dog gets his freedom back and extra attention from you, it could work...but you have to be really consistent.
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reader, birdynumnums +, writes (1 September 2009):
I tink that you need to protect your son from himself, and separate him from the dog. You should only be allowing them to be together during your supervision, and teach him how to care for another creature. I would be worried about him becoming a serial killer if he were 10, but he is SO young, and toddlers are not old enough to be judged. A three year old doesn't know the difference between water and corrosive cleaning products, so let's not jump the gun and think that he is doing this in order to harm the dog permanently.
When I had toddlers, and they did things that were beyond questioning and without reasoning with them, because they were TODDLERS, they got a swat on the bottom. I never tried to explain to my three year old WHY getting out of the backseat and running across the four lane road to the pancake house was a bad idea *because he could be dead* because three year olds don't understand dead. But, he never did that again, because I told him about it, after a spanking. In the parking lot. Try doing that these days. Still, there is no reasoning with a three year old.
You need to buy gates for your home and isolate the dog. The dog should also have a crate where he feels safe and at home in order to relax and sleep. Everyone needs that.
What everyone else said about giving the dog away is the last resort. If you feel, after closely monitoring his behavior with the dog and always being present whenever they are together and he still exhibits cruelty towards the dog, then yes, you need to speak with a professional about your sons behavior - only after every other possibility has been exhausted. I won't speculate on this possibility, as I think it would be a worst-case-scenario. Good Luck. You sound like a very responsible Mom.
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reader, Heartbroken in love +, writes (1 September 2009):
this made me sad to read as I am an animal lover. everytime I have a pet I treat them as a human being. And I really don't care what people have to say about that. I know it is not reasonable to punish him as if he had done that to a human but but I almost say that I probably would have because dogs have spirits too and and they have feelings and emotions and they know when they have been done wrong. Here is how I would go about deciding the punishment. First think about what you would have done if he were to say do this to a small child. Then harshest course of action that would be acceptable for a 3 year old to show him that just because he did it to a dog doesn't make it ok or less harmful.
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female
reader, QuartzKitty +, writes (1 September 2009):
quiet-echo is right. The lack of remorse and the laughing is a huge red flag.
Harming animals as a child is a classic indicator of anti-social personality disorder, otherwise known as sociopathy.
If he shows any sign of pyromania or fascination with fire, that's another indicator.
Most serial killers were sociopaths.
I would get your son help. Bring him to a psychologist. Sociopathy is hard to diagnose in children, but maybe some treatment could be given.
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reader, countrygal462 +, writes (1 September 2009):
 in all honesty, i think you should either give the dog up or let the dog stay at someone elses house for a little while.
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reader, Honeypie +, writes (1 September 2009):
 OMG that must be horrific. I have 3 children and I "trained" them ALL at an early age, how to interact and respect animals, specially our pets ( we have 2 cats). We also walk a neighbors dog ( owner has a broken foot) and they are doing great. However my kids are older.
He is 3 years old. So in that age where they seriously test limits. To me it screams for attention. Maybe he has some jealousy issues regarding the dog?
I'm not sure what advice to give. I am against corporal punishment, but ( and I'm sorry for saying this) if that was my child I would have whopped his butt.
I don't think 4 hours sitting in his room is the right punishment either. HE is 3. THAT is just way to long time for him to think up more stuff to do to the dog.
Maybe you need to start teaching him about how to teach the dog to do tricks ( as in train the child and the dog together.) TAKE the dog AND your son for walks. WEAR them BOTH out.
I would also punish him EVERY time he does something mean to the dog. I would use a time out of no more then 3-5 minutes.
You might also have to crate the dog for potty breaks til you trust your son to be good aroudn the dog.
May I recommend a few books?
http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Book-Better-Behaved-Child-Birth/dp/0316779032/ref=cm_lmf_tit_7
http://www.amazon.com/Happiest-Toddler-Block-Well-Behaved-Four-Year-Old/dp/0553802569/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780062737304
I understand that you are upset, but you can do this. :)
If all fails and he keeps hurting the dog I would actively find the poor thing a new home, no animals deserve "torture" not even at the hand of a 3 year old.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 September 2009): Wow, I feel for you that is a bad situation.
When I was born my parents owned a Dauchsand...when I was able to walk I started getting the Dauchsand into trouble by giving him nice things to chew up, I gave him pencils, too, not knowing that pencils could seriously hurt the dog.
Since neither the dog or I were trainable and got into trouble, my parents found a new home for the dog with a nice single lady who I am sure gave him a good home, and I never missed the dog because I was only two at the time and I can say I don't remember the dog at all.
Now in my opinion and most vet's children under the age of six are too young to own a dog or a cat or any pet for that matter. They haven't developed empathy, they don't understand how to handle and pick up a pet properly (unless you are diligent about teaching them) and it leads to injury for both child and pet.
I think this is a bad combination and I feel for your delima, but find a home for your dog, don't threaten your child, he doesn't really care, he thinks of the dog like one of his toys he might break, just give him to a family member who would want him and take care of him or find a neighbor or friend. Right now because of the economy there are a lot of abandoned dogs, so I urge you not to drop the dog off at the pound or at the humane society as it will likely be given two weeks to live or two weeks to find a home....and there are just too many unwanted animals out there.
The only other suggestion I have is to confine the dog and the child to different quarters in the house. I don't know how large your home is, but my sister who lives in Houston in a huge five bedroom house kept her indoor purebred cat confined to just the kitchen and laundry room areas, and supervised her young twins when playing with the cat.
Good luck to you. I think your son can be taught some ways to handle the dog, but how much will the little dog have to go through with a little boys antics?
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reader, pinktopaz +, writes (1 September 2009):
I know these days spanking is "bad" but I'm sorry, if I did that when I was little, I would have gotten a beatdown. There are some punishments, in my opinion, that don't require physical discipline; however, there are some that do. I learned to not do certain behaviors because I knew I was going to get spanked. And boy, I did not want to get spanked, especially when it was from my dad. Did I grow up dysfunctional or a serial killer? No. Do I have irrepairable emotional/social problems? No.
He isn't taking you seriously for some reason...he's testing you and showing lack of respect for your authority. If you see him messing with your poor little dog again, remind him, if you hurt Fluffy, you're not going to like what's going to happen to you. He may try and test your boundaries again, but you have to be firm and stick to your plan, otherwise he's going to keep laughing at you when you try to have a "talk" with him...he's 3 years old not a young adult. He knows what he's doing is bad, it's not okay to hurt animals, or think that it's funny.
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