A
male
age
36-40,
*olidus
writes:So I've been talking to this girl since Christmas and felt very strong about her, we became really close, she'd call me almost every day and we'd sometimes talk for hours, she'd often constantly joke about us getting married, which any guy would take as a hint that she was interested, well when I tried to get with her she pretty much played me to the left and gave the "let's just be friends" line. so, about two months goes by with me still subtlety trying to woo her with my perseverance fueled by my indomitable love. Long story short I eventually became discouraged and began to distance myself from her as talking to her just kinda hurt my heart. So she texts me the other day asking was I mad at her, I explained that I wasn't but just felt my feelings for her were stronger than her's were for me" she basically responded "Its not fair that your not talking to me because i dont like u romantically ure a great friend and u suddenly stopped being my friend. I miss u"I still think about her every day and I feel bad that she misses me, I just find it hard to be friends with someone I'm in love with. What do you guys think I should do?
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male
reader, Solidus +, writes (13 March 2011):
Solidus is verified as being by the original poster of the question Well, she also told me that she "feels like she's known me forever and that we're already bff's but in a diff kind of way in a male and female way like when a girl and guy talk."
I don't know about where you guys are from, but the definition of "talk" where I'm from is "When two people have a relationship together of more than just being friends." Basically you're interested in them romantically and you're getting to know them better before dating.
I never told her to say those things and she clearly understood the meaning and implications. So, I'm just a little bit miffed/confused as to why a woman would even say something like that to someone who is just her friend. I have TONS of female friends and none of them has ever said the kinda stuff she's said to me so consistently or suggestively.
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (12 March 2011):
 Precious advice from Cerberus. I see it differently from him under some aspects, ( I still think she should not have insisted to keep in touch with you ,knowing that you are crushing on her ) but I certainly agree about the "reading the signs " thing.
She gave you mixed signals. Well , it's safer to assume that mixed signals = no signal = please don't even go there . This is true ,say,about 80% of the cases , and for the remaining 20%, when there is a chance, if the person is does not want you to slip away / change your mind, she/he will take care to intensify the signals and make them crystal clear before you get fed up and turn your attention elsewhere.
Most of the trouble in relationships, at least from reading posts on DC, comes from people's wishful thinking , they decide that X must mean something because they want it to be so,when instead there may be several other explanations.
Like, the phone thing-she used to blew your phone . Talking about what.. ? I am inclined to think that mostly it was about her, her problems and feelings, her social / love life etc. Women like to talk, they like to talk on the phone and they like to talk about themselves. She found a compliant audience - that's more about her liking herself than her liking you .
Or the getting married thing ? I always encourage the posters to watch "Friends " reruns, everything it's always there :) It's a very common, chummy thing- two singles that make a pact, ok, if we are not married by age 30, or 40 - we'll marry each other. In this form or another , it's the opposite of declaring interest, do you think that
if a girl wants to start dating a guy, first thing she'd tell him is : I think you'd make a good husband ? Never !,
least he gets scared / thinks she is pushy etc.
All in all, Solidus, try to get over this episode and don't be upset, it was a precious experience, you learned things that will be very useful in your future interactions with women, now you know what pitfalls to avoid.
And,like Cerberus said, you know not to waste time after someone who is "soul searching " or " not sure " or "not clear about her feelings ".... when there may be dozens of girls who think/will think : " Wow, Solidus. What a cool guy. He's the best ! If only he'd ask me out ... "
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male
reader, Solidus +, writes (12 March 2011):
Solidus is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSmart advice, Cerberus. Thanks for the knowledge, man.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): Sorry Solidus, part of my response was directed at shawncaff I should have been clear about that.
Just so you know in the future this - "i dunno. im sorry. I would rather just be friends. I dunno what i want right now in my life, still soul searching." means "never". Okay? Seriously man, girls pretty much never say "just be friends" when they want to keep the door open for that possibility in the future.
I'll put it you this way, any hesitation, any kind of maybe or anything like that to the idea of getting together means "no". I know that's not always the case but it's the safest attitude, it works for me. You see if you woo a girl and feel the time is right and then make your move and get rejected then it's not going to happen. You can spend months trying to get her, being there for her but the only thing that works in that situation is walking away. You see at that stage, when you openly and honestly tell them that friendship isn't enough and you have to walk away or you'll get hurt, to a girl that's just being indecisive or has any kind of romantic feelings for you at all, the thought of losing you altogether should be enough incentive, if she doesn't give it a go when she stands to lose you completely, then you never had a chance anyway.
These three words "just be friends" no matter how she says it, no matter what she says before and after, they're the truth and they mean "only friends".
You see after she said that and you accepted it, then all is fair after that because she made her feelings clear.
Dude most girls never say the word "never" they might mean it but they rarely say it because they don't want to lose the friendship or hurt you. It would be nicer if they did but most don't.
I honestly don't see the confusion anymore. I used to and I've been friendzoned lots of times in the past but it's always my own problem because I was looking for signs that weren't there, my heart was grasping at straws and feeding off all the scraps of affection they gave but in the end of the day, when they said "just be friends" they meant it, they always do.
I stand by my original statement Solidus, be honest with her and tell her everything you're feeling, give it her one final chance to at least know what you want and that it's that or nothing. If the idea of losing you completely doesn't make her realize that her feelings for you are stronger than she thinks then really nothing else will.
Don't just cut and run, tell her what's up, it's the situation that sucks not her, so do the right thing and give her closure.
For the future, don't settle for girls that aren't sure whether they like you or not. Trust me on this, the keepers are the ones that have no doubt that they want you. "maybe, I don't know, I'm not ready, I don't want to be with anyone right now, I want to be single for a while, I'm just out of a relationship, I need some time, I have to do some soul searching" all of these are rejections, don't for one second think they mean anything other than a vague round-a-bout way of saying no. "Let's just be friends" means exactly that and it *always* means never.
Spare yourself the time and the grief, and go for girls who know what they want, that being you. Try not to go the long winding road of long term wooing of a girl who only wants to be friends with you. There are so many women out there that would love all that from you but you're wasting your time on a lemon (no offence intended to her I'm sure she's lovely).
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A
male
reader, shawncaff +, writes (12 March 2011):
 I certainly don't want to turn this into a dialogue between CindyCares and me, but I would like to respond to her ear-pulling (which is always much appreciated despite the stinging sensation!). I hope it is still at least a little relevant to Solidus' original post:
@Cindy: Yes, it is true the girl with whom I shared a similar experience was gorgeous. But that does not mean I did not, for a while anyway, like her only for her looks. Rather, it was her looks that so attracted me that I wanted to get to know her as a person.
Conversely, though, I have certainly been attracted to girls much less gifted in the looks department and have dated them as well. While, yes, good looking girls do attract me, I can honestly say (especially now after this experience) that if I felt I had chemistry with a girl and respected her greatly as a person, I think I would seriously want to be with that person. It really is so hard to find someone you "click" with, life is short, and if you enjoy someone's company and feel like they complete you, would something as superficial as outward appearance really get in the way of a relationship?
Of course, I am in my upper thirties. I doubt I would have felt like this as a younger man. And it is true I speak in the abstract. But it is really true, as I have said, that I have really not dated girls of great outward beauty (though they do become more beautiful as their character shines through).
So, getting back to the OP.....I still think given this girl's feelings toward him, it makes no sense why she would not want to be with him. Maybe if the OP were disfigured (God forbid) or hideous looking, I could be more sympathetic, but I doubt this is the case.
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A
male
reader, Solidus +, writes (12 March 2011):
Solidus is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCerberus, I was always feeling her romantically since the day we met so shifting your focus can sometimes be a difficult thing.
Also Cerberus when we had the talk she wasn't entirely firm on the we're NEVER going to be anything, but friends thing. Her exact words were "i dunno. im sorry. I would rather just be friends. I dunno what i want right now in my life, still soul searching." I also told her upfront that I would continue to woo her until she was done soul searching which she appreciated. So I really didn't deceive her at all.
I wore my heart on my sleeve the entire course of our friendship.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): You should keep your distance. No offence dude but subtly trying to woo a girl after she put you in the friendzone wasn't the smartest idea ever. You should have been out of there the minute she said that.
I completely disagree with those who say she's self centred or playing you, she said let's be friends and you said okay. Now all of a sudden you're turning around and saying you can't do that. What is she supposed to do? Just drop you like that, even though you said you were fine with just being friends? Dude you deceived her, you never wanted to be her friend, you've been sneakily trying to woo her the past two months while she thinks you're a really good friend to her.
She's done nothing wrong, you're the one who misread the signs. Words mean nothing, my female friends joke about us being so good together that we should get married all the time. So when you made your move and she refused, what did you do? You agreed to be friends, when that's just not possible and you weren't actually her friend at all because you had an agenda the whole time.
Just move on and if you want her to stop texting you and stuff then tell her the truth. She deserves to know why and she deserves to know what you've been doing all this time.
Next time don't wait so long to make your move and if a girl says "let's be friends" then trust her because that's all you'll ever be.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (12 March 2011):
@ Shawncaff- sorry my friend I could not resist the temptation to pull your ear a bit.
True, some women are really close to sadistic. It's not sadism, it's selfishness, insecurity and a hungry ego. The more you are liked, the more you have power, that's a strong,heady sensation. I know attractive girls who have the equivalent of a little medieval court around them, with the pages, the jostlers , the minstrels and the curt buffoon. And when one of the poor subjects dares to get away or, worse, to romance another girl, they get as piqued and offended as if they were a medieval chatelaine.
Obvious and rapid moral : this is a very bad thing and if you meet this kind of woman, run for your life.
Said that , Uncle Shawncaff, you are not playing fair when you say the " no physical attraction " is paper-thin to you. You had a similar frustrating experience but you forgot to mention - and I am revealing no secret because you wrote it all over Dear Cupid, that your frustrating experience happened with a young, beautiful model. I think her physical appeal was absolutely part and parcel of your attraction. It does not sound like you only liked her for her personality or behaviour.
Now, imagine the opposite happens. For some reasons, chance gets you closer to a ,say, work colleague. You seek her company , occasionally, because she is smart, fun, kind, a likeable person . And she , that may secretly have a soft spot for you, plays along and in fact seeks occasions to get closer and closer. The only problem is that this work colleague ,poor girl, is a very unattractive woman with a face that only her mother could love. Or ,anyway, for some reason she is the physical opposite of what you like in a woman. You like her wit conversation loyalty etc etc, but ....phisically, there is zero appeal.
Tell me honestly : would you be able to transform these feelings of intellectual appreciation into physical attraction ? To turn this mutual caring into desire ?...
You felt on the same wavelength with the person you refer to- but you ALSO found her very attractive. What happens
if you are on the same wavelength with a girl that, though, has zero physical appeal for you ?... Let me guess : she gets stuck in the friend zone, LOL
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A
male
reader, Solidus +, writes (12 March 2011):
Solidus is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI agree with all of you, especially shawncaff. I just don't understand the reasoning of some of stuff she says or does.
She told me I'm handsome and even confided in me that her best friend, who doesn't like any man she meets, LOVES me, and thinks she should date me. Why would you even tell me something like that unless you're trying to illicit some sort of emotional response from me? I wouldn't tell a girl something like that unless I was trying to put the idea out there.
You're all right though. I need to distance myself from her until I can talk to her without romantic hope or agenda.
Thanks for your help and understanding, guys.
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A
male
reader, shawncaff +, writes (12 March 2011):
I agree with the other posters. You definitely have a consensus here about her being too self-centered not to see things from your perspective.
The truth is, I cannot understand this aspect of women psychology. I've asked about it here but still don't understand it. If a woman calls a guy her "best friend", says things like "I can talk to you about anything," and is flirtatious, talking about marriage with you...then why would she NOT want to date you??? (I've had the same frustrating experience.)
This "no physical attraction" is paper-thin to me. If a guy and a girl are so close and care about each other, then the chemistry is THERE. Ye Gods, don't you women know how hard it is for two people to be on the same wave length?
Anyway, my rant is over. Sorry about that! It just seems like women who do what your friend is doing is sadistic, that's all.
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A
female
reader, Beccccccy  +, writes (12 March 2011):
 This ones Easy ..Continue not to repond ..Any form of friendship is a complete waste of time , She just wants to control the situation . Dont do anything ..just continue to ignore her , It's a waste of energy .
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): She's selfish because she's only thinking about herself and doesn't give a crap about you getting your heart ripped out if you stay around. Tell her N.O. and move on.
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A
female
reader, Aunty BimBim +, writes (12 March 2011):
 Friends dont expect their friends to be in situations where they are not happy, if she really cared for you as a friend she would understand that you need to distance yourself for a while.
She just wants you hanging around like a scalp on a belt, there is not much equality in this friend ship, she was able to tell you how she didnt like you romantically and you are just expected to suck it up.
I say keep your distance, be polite, but dont put your life on hold for her.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (12 March 2011):
You should stick to your guns and keep your distance. It's impossible to be just friends with soemone you are still so in love with, it's like self imposed torture . I think she is too self centered in asking you to,basically,suffer just because she is used to chat with you and miss her company.If she'd seriously care about your friendship, she would understand that you are in an awkward position and that for the moment you need to keep your distance .
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): You can't because you'll resent her and wind up enemies. She's trying to guilt you into putting your welfare after hers. Don't let her do that to you. Do what's best foer you with that being sever all ties with her until you can stomach her dating guys or until another chic takes over her place in your heart. This is about what works for you and that's all that matters.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): Tell her that you value her friendship but at this point it would be to painful for you to be an active part of her life because you aren't strong enough to cope with watching her get into another guy romantically. You have to worry about your emotional state first and if she's a true friend she'll respect what you need to do to keep yourself mentally healthy. You could also tell her that later on down the line you two could be active friends once you don't give a pig's ass about her romantically and if she gets pissed then giver her the f-off and call it a day.
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