A
female
age
36-40,
*irl789
writes:Hi everyone,I'm 24 and I've been with my boyfriend, who's 25, for about four months and all had been going great; he's kind, caring, generous and always puts me first. However, I noticed on his internet browser history a couple of weeks ago that he looks at hardcore porn, in fairly large quantities and quite frequently too by the looks of it (he works away for 4 or 5 days and then we have a couple of days together). I was quite surprised by this because I suppose I had a stereotypical view of the type of bloke that watches that sort of thing, and he is not it. My problem primarily is not really that it makes me feel insecure - I wouldn't doubt for a moment that he loves me - it's more that I oppose it morally. It's not all glamour and empowerment and free choice; many women are horrifically degraded and exploited, both on and off camera, and, particularly having had a couple of abusive experiences as as child, I just can't buy into the whole thing lightheartedly for the sake of an orgasm. I casually mentioned that I'd seen his history, and was told that 'all men watch porn'. I just cannot believe this. Many maybe, but not all. I've never had a boyfriend for whom it has been a regular habit. He also kindly suggested that I was a hypocrite; we've done some things that may be considered somewhat adventurous on occasion, and he wanted to know how it was OK for me to do something but then not agree with it happening in porn videos. The difference for me is that I know I have consented fully and I'm doing something because I genuinely want to try it. I'm not really prudish, just as I'm not really a nymphomaniac. But from the few things I know about the sex industry, you can never know the conditions in which a woman has arrived into it, whether she's genuinely enjoying it or whether she can't wait to get out, whether those screams of pleasure are actually screams of pain, or whether she's even 18. I think the whole thing is very crude and murky, and it objectifies and degrades women on varying different levels. I can't understand how some otherwise intelligent and thoughtful men suddenly become so blinkered and can't see past their erections. It's a really big deal for me (as you can probably tell!) and I don't know if I can just accept this difference in opinion. It's too important to me.Am I being realistic? Or do I need to get off my high horse? Thoughts would be very much appreciated. Thanks.
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erection, insecure, never had a boyfriend, orgasm, porn Reply to this Question
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male
reader, yesno  +, writes (6 April 2011):
I'm a man. Among the men that I've spoken to about it in one way or another, none have said they don't look at porn. I don't even understand this question.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): I wonder what it is that makes women preface the word porn with the word hard core. If is ain't penetration and legs all up in the air it ain't porn.It's a chick flick.
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female
reader, maverick494 +, writes (6 April 2011):
If you read the reply from the anon porn actress you'll see not every woman working in the porn industry is a fragile innocent young thing. Ofcourse there are plenty of naive girls who have been manipulated and taken advantage of, but they are usually on the seedy sites, not the well known ones. Plus a lot of the women in it are actually quite strong and confident because they have to be in this business. Even the young ones. Take Sasha Grey for an instance. She knew exactly what she was getting into even though she was just 18, yet she went ahead and did it. She doesn't have a problem with it and even openly talks about it. I'm not saying porn is good; an industry that revolves around sex and money always has a shadow, but it's not as evil as some paint it to be. It's not as dark as street prostitution, where it's almost impossible to check whether the girls are working legally or not. Questionable sites are easily recognized by their content. True discomfort is not easy to hide. Plus I think the industry is very aware of age. There was one porn actress who pretended to be older than she was by using a fake ID and got caught and caused a lot of trouble (and awareness). Her name was Traci Lords. She later starred in a movie with Johnny Depp.Anyway, what I'm trying to say is: don't see it so black and white. Every industry revolving around money involves manipulation. That's unfortunately just the way things go. If your bf stays away from sites that scream trouble (faces that look too young, dubious content) it should be okay. Still talk to your bf and you should be able to compromise.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (6 April 2011):
 You called me ignorant, that's a personal attack. You also said anyone who is anti-porn is crazy and since I am anti-porn... And implied my article was "rubbish."Yes I am "biased." I haven't been able to find any good from porn other than most men like it, which certainly isn't enough to justify the harm it causes. It contributes to the idea that women aren't good for anything except their sexuality and what they can offer to men. That they are available for sexual consumption. If we lived in a society where women were valued as whole people, I wouldn't have a problem with people getting off to videos of sex. If we lived in a society where women weren't raped in huge numbers, it wouldn't be as big a problem when women were treated violently and brutally in over 80% of films. But as it is, most porn I've seen (amateur porn included for the most part) resembles something closer to rape than sex. There are far more studies showing harm than good coming from watching hardcore porn. The newest meta analysis (where they gather up as many studies as they can find and analyze them) shows a significant correlation with viewing porn and negative gender stereotypes, belief in rape myths (like that all women want to be raped) and aggression towards women. And hardcore porn narrows sexuality rather than broadens it. There is nothing creative about buying someone else's narrowly packaged sexuality rather than developing your own.And it's ruining relationships. It is now as important as money in divorce, and the body images of people are suffering. Men feel inadequate, women are slicing off their genitalia and stuffing balloons in their chests. I can't tell you the number of women I've spoken to who can't find a good sex partner anymore because porn is making this generation terrible at sex.Just look at the number of women on here suffering as a result of a partner using porn and the number of people jumping in to tell them they're crazy, delusional, and insecure. You're damn right she's insecure, how else is she supposed to feel when her partner cares enough about the women he gets off to on a screen that he'll sacrifice her well-being, happiness, and love for it? As it relates to relationships, my problem is how it is always the woman who has to sacrifice her feelings for his habit. If it wasn't that big a deal, they would stop once they realized it was causing her extreme distress, but that never happens. In fact rather than stopping I've heard you recommend several times that the male OP get better at hiding his porn use. Women everywhere HAVE to put up with something that makes them feel horrible just because men like it. How is that not sexist? I'm fairly certain this is the 21st century and women aren't supposed to be required to sacrifice their health and well-being to please their man. With any other issue it's sort of a no-brainer, stop hurting your partner intentionally. But because it's almost exclusively a female problem to be bothered and most men like porn, all women have to deal. It's not terribly uncommon for women to stop caring if they enjoy sex, or for women to begin dieting or get surgery to compete with porn and it's not unheard of for women to attempt suicide over a partner who won't stop using it.And I rarely tell a woman to dump a man over porn unless he's clearly addicted or not going to compromise or be honest. I usually recommend counseling and books and links that can help the OP.But yes, I certainly am "militantly" anti-porn.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): Cerberus let me ask you a question.
If it was your vulnerable young sister/daughter who worked in porn would it be ok then?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): Person12345 I totally applaud you. And while we are on the subject let us not forget that the whole reason for this posting is that a woman wrote in because she was upset at the HARDCORE porn her loving boyfriend was pleasuring himself to.
Who wants to get off on women being treated like this? Anyone out there have a view on masturbating to violent acts? Well put your hands up now and tell us how you get off on it and let's see what others have to say. Have a feeling things will go very quiet on this one.....
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (5 April 2011):
I'm ignorant on this? I'm a published author on the subject. And if you're going to resort to unnecessary personal attacks, I forgot to cite that quote, it was you Cerberus. You also went on a rant awhile back about how emotionally worthless women in porn are. If we're going there now.And many women in porn do choose to be there. But many also don't. Even many of the women who aren't trafficked are there because they can't get jobs doing anything else. As for that documentary, it shows a fairly negative portrayal of the industry. It was a series on BBC aimed at showing how incredibly hard on women porn is. And I can also point you to the more widely known documentary Hardcore, which shows a woman who turns to porn to get back at her dad, is pressured into performing in things she doesn't want to be in, and is raped on camera by one of the most well-known porn producers. There's an entire association dedicated to helping victims of the porn industry, founded by someone who was hurt by being in the porn industry herself. An enormous majority of women in the industry have a history of sexual abuse (the numbers are between 75%-90%), even Jenna Jameson says she was raped three separate times, has stopped doing all of the extremely painful looking acts that are now mainstream (anal, double penetration, etc...) now that she's famous, and says she would never want her daughter to go into porn. She also acknowledges the reason why women only last an average of 6 months in the industry, "In other scenarios, she'll work for two weeks until she's only getting paid seven hundred dollars a scene and then, finally, no one wants to use her anymore. So she'll agree to do double penetration or drink the sperm of twelve guys just to stay working."I've talked to many women who used to be in porn who describe being raped on set, one woman refused to be in a particular scene and they tied her up and locked her in a closet until she agreed to do it. They also routinely threaten to fire women for not engaging in acts, condoms are used in fewer than 5% of films, and women routinely suffer injuries such as a rectal prolapse from such "loving" acts as double anal penetration. Many women are also required to wax, bleach their anus, and get plastic surgery on their genitalia.As for whether porn is exploitative in the way that working at McDonalds is, working at McDonalds doesn't require you to take off your clothes and be penetrated in every hole. Working at McDonalds doesn't penetrate your body. As stated in Vanity Fair, "There are lots of other professions, vocations, and avenues for self-expression that don't entail having your butt pounded like Omaha Beach by relative strangers." I find it odd that you speak about how women in porn just love what they do, then also compare it to working at McDonalds. It can't be both at the same time. Women in porn aren't there because they love sex, they are there because they need money. I think this quote from Ariel Levy sums it up pretty well, "Sex workers are workers. They are having sex, just as strippers are stripping and centerfolds are posing, because they are paid to, not because they are in the mood to….for the rest of us who are lucky or industrious enough to make a living doing other things, sex is supposed to be something we do for pleasure or as an expression of love. The best erotic role models, then, would seem to be the women who get the most pleasure out of sex, not the women who get the most money for it."And it's fairly hard to argue porn isn't degrading to women. In one study of several hundred of the most popular mainstream porn videos, over 80% showed some form of violence against women, while fewer than 5% showed affection of any kind such as laughing, smiling, discussion of consent, or compliments.And if you think producers and directors just want to show sex as a harmless masturbation fantasy? Here's a quote from Larry Flynt, who is second only Hugh Hefner in terms of the size of his porn empire, "Women are here to serve men. Look at them, they got to squat to piss. Hell, that proves it." As well Hustler wrote (it's too vulgar to post here) that women don't speak from their hearts, they speak from their vaginas and it's men's duties to shut them up by "stuffing" them in every hole with their penises. And here is a more G-rated description of what women's purpose in porn is as rephrased from the porn film No Holes Barred: "In pornography, women are three holes and two hands. Women in pornography have no hopes and no dreams and no value apart from the friction those holes and hands can produce on a man’s penis."I also find it odd how many of the pro-porn posters on here are vehemently anti-prostitution. One of the posters below had commented on how a man who went to prostitutes was a "vile" and poor excuse for a man, and how anyone who contributes to the industry of prostitutes does not deserve to call himself a man, but here defends pornography to the extreme. But pornography is prostitution that is filmed. The only difference is that there is a camera present.The only people in the industry who speak in favor of the industry are the people who profit most from it, and even superstar Jenna Jameson thinks the industry is pretty terrible for women. There is no shortage of women in the industry or who have left who have nothing but horrible things to say about it.
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female
reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (5 April 2011):
 Cerberus...very well said!!
Most of pornography is a free choice and the people in it are by their own choice. People leave behind successful careers to join the porn industry, some with the support of their families. Don't trust me? Watch this documentary: http://documentaryheaven.com/the-dark-side-of-porn-diary-of-a-porn-virgin/
Porn is an unorthodox career shift and is no more exploitative to women than any other career. Its a matter of their personal choice.
You might be completely opposed to porn because of your own bad experiences as a child, but that doesn't make the career of pornography that is chosen by some, as exploitative and degrading. The fact that your BF watches porn while you are completely opposed to it can be a deal breaker for you, but generalizing porn as degrading to all those who are in it, is a bit extreme. Its a career choice for them, thats it. I'm not supporting porn viewing but I'm just saying that generalizing all men who view porn as bad and all women in it as being enslaved and trafficked is not right.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): I am a guy that really wishes porn was not so bad. I watch porn regularly but I still don't like any of the bad things about it. It turns me off to see the girls being degraded or not really enjoying what they are doing.
I just wanted to speak up that guys like me exist. Not all consumers of porn are fine and dandy with the negative parts of the industry.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): You don't need to get off your high horse but you do need ask yourself if it's an issue worth losing him over.
Your view of porn is your own and you're entitled to it but it's not the whole picture and your dim view of it belies the fact that most of the women that participate in it do so freely and guess what? They actually like it :O crazy isn't it, to think that women might enjoy sex enough that getting paid for it is an added bonus.
For most porn actresses it's a job and one they enjoy, if they didn't then why do it? Because they're enslaved? Really? you think they'd get away with that in America? You think Hugh Hefner has enslaved all those Bunnies? Or the 100,000's of thousands of women that have appeared in Hustler are all abused?
"many women are horrifically degraded and exploited" How is that different than any other job? You think women like making burgers in Mcdonalds? Do you think degradation and exploitation doesn't happen in hollywood? What about women working as cleaners for less than minimum wage? What about Britney Spears and all those other pop stars, do you think they're not being degraded made to parade around in next to nothing touring and singing on a contract?
OP if you want proof of how crazy and wrong the militant anti-porn people are then just read Person12345's post.
"the cold hard truth of the matter is the majority of men do not care if some of the women were forced there" You see what I mean? We men are the enemy to her because all women are pure and none of them like sex, none of them like porn either right?
The vast majority of women slaves aren't in the sex industry, they're actually working in sweat shops or are indentured servants in Africa.
"supports the trafficking of women." Okay then by that logic so does the cleaning industry, the textile industry, the fashion industry, the recycling industry, the pop industry and any other job that uses migrant workers and pays them nothing.
OP saying women don't like acting in porn is like saying they don't enjoy sex. It's like saying they don't enjoy being promiscuous. You know that's not the case and you also know there are plenty of women that love being paid to have sex.
It objectifies and degrades men too OP but you never see the anti-porn brigade talk about that. You yourself couldn't give crap about the guys in porn either. If it's possible for women to be objectified and exploited in porn then the same happens to the men.
OP I've been using porn regularly for 17 years. I've seen every single type except for kids, rape and real forced. I find it insulting for anyone to assume that I enjoy the idea of women or men being exploited for my gratification but I see the exact same thing when I go into a fast food restaurant, every time I turn on the TV there are women being objectified to sell products to other women, fashion models, pop stars, actresses are all objectified as sex symbols. If I saw you walking down the road in hot pants and a tank top then can bet your ass in my head I'm objectifying you, just like the majority of other men and women would.
Person12345's idea that all men that watch porn are ignorant scum is just stupid. I'm working on my PHD at the moment, I have 3 degrees and a masters. I've never been arrested, I have volunteered with the red cross I could go on and on. I have used porn for 17 years and I have dated a hell of a lot in that time and it's never been an issue. My current girlfriend watches it with me and trust me she's a militant proponent of women's rights.
My advice to you OP, if this is not an issue you can get over then you and your guy are not going to work. He sees no problem with it just like 99% of guys in your country don't. That's not to say all guys watch it, they don't but good luck finding a guy who doesn't and isn't just lying to cover his ass.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): You need to get real. Sorry hun but that's the blunt truth.
Saying that all men watch porn is like saying all women wear makeup. Granted, there are a few exceptions... but they are few and far between.
He is going to keep watching porn, you can either make your peace with it or move on.
I also don't agree with your view of the women in the industry. I have a few friends that are either in the glamour industry or in the porn industry and trust me they love it. If anyone's getting abused it's the poor men in the flicks... as someone else has already pointed out they earn virtually nothing and are forced to do things they may not want in order to get enough cash to live on.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): Well, I see I'm the only one with a vagina that's going to agree with the men on this one.
I worked in the porn industry (not as a star) and I can tell you first hand that in professional porn from companies such as Brazzers, Adam and Eve, Pure Play, and Digital Playground the women are in full knowledge of what is going to happen to them. Flynn 24 pretty much has it all summed up; there are contracts, regular screenings, several forms of proof for age, and a very staunch business like atmosphere between the actors and producers. It's not all a big orgy, men aren't rearing to go the moment they walk through the door, sticking their penises in every hole they can find on a warm body. The cum shots on the face at the end are kind of disgusting, but hey, the ladies know it's going to happen, they aren't afraid of cum, and honestly, being a woman myself, I would much rather have that shot somewhere on my body rather than inside me (oozing) or having to swallow it on demand (some guys taste funny, and nothing like having a gag during the big finale.)
Porn is an act for the benefit of the consumers. The male stars have fluffers before a taping ( a private session with a woman who arouses them so they don't lose their boner on screen). They get nervous, too. Imagine the stress on a man when he is being video taped banging the hell out of a woman. Is he going to cum too soon? Is his ass giggling too much? Should he have shaved his balls? It's all presentation. It's an act, it's all fake; Those women are faking on screen (sorry guys!) and they just want to make their money and go home.
Those women are idolized. They make tours to strip clubs, they have a celebrity status with thousands of fans, men and women alike. I love seeing April Flores in films, she's so real and she has a full figure, she's the best I have ever seen in porn and I can appreciate her acceptance of her body and her willingness to be filmed. She makes a ton of money off doing something she loves.
As far as him saying all men watch porn..well, I can say in my experience that all men have watched porn at some point in their life. My husband used to watch a lot of it, he would go to the titty bars with his brother and have a wild time, but now that we're older he really doesn't look stuff up unless it's something that he's in the mood for. Sometimes I like watching porn with men masturbating, it turns me on and when we're both too tired to have sex it's a nice thing to watch. You watch it for a little bit, you get off, and you go to bed. I couldn't even tell you what the person's face looked like the next day, and I don't even think of it again until I get in the mood a few months later.
Again, Flynn 24 is correct...the amateur porn is a bit seedy. I like amateur porn myself because it's real people, not some airbrushed woman with fake tits and bleached hair. But you CAN tell immediately if there is something wrong...the woman's eyes are glazed over or she's not very coherent. That's the stuff anyone should be avoiding.
So let him go, it's not all that big of a deal. And if you make a big issue out of it, he's going to watch it more because that makes it so much more exciting.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (5 April 2011):
Also to add, the "all men do it" is a form of compartmentalization. It means maybe he kind of thinks it's bad, but by claiming it's no longer his personal choice but a "mob mentality" thing forcing him to do it, it alleviates his personal responsibility. All men don't watch porn.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (5 April 2011):
I agree with you fully. The vast majority of female slaves are in the sex industry (either as prostitutes or in porn). There is no way of knowing if the women are there by choice or not. And it definitely does objectify women, many men on here describe their feelings of women in porn as "just interchangeable body parts" (yes, that was an actual quote). And it's true that when men are shown pictures of scantily clad women, the part of their brain identifying an object lights up while the part that identifies a person lights up when they are shown fully clothed women or men. And don't even get me started on the degradation of women in pretty much all hardcore porn. I always find the strangest double standard expressed about pain versus pleasure to be that when she's enjoying herself it's always real but when she's in pain it's always acting.
However, the cold hard truth of the matter is the majority of men do not care if some of the women were forced there, many men seek out and enjoy degrading and humiliating material, and there's really not much you can do to change their minds. I think you'd have to have your head pretty far into the sand to not acknowledge that watching any sort of mainstream pornography, whether you pay for it or not, supports the trafficking of women. But again, that doesn't really matter to most porn viewers. Approximately 70% of men watch porn at least occasionally. The best you can do is present your argument of why the porn he watches is basically, bad for women, in a logical way and maybe he'll start to absorb it. There's a website of men who do blog about being a man who is against porn for that reason, though their recent posts aren't very in depth:
http://www.antipornmen.org
Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you want more information.
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male
reader, honestman  +, writes (5 April 2011):
Hi!"and was told that 'all men watch porn'. I just cannot believe this. Many maybe, but not all."Well, you are right. Not all men watch porn, just 99.999% of them. It will be very , very hard for you to find a man that does not watch porn.Your boyfriend seems to be traveling a lot. That means that 4 or 5 days a week he gets no sex from you, which can be very BAD for him. Some guys need constant sex, other not so much. Telling by your boyfriend's internet history, he probably needs a daily dose of hot steaming sex from you. The thing is that you are not physically with him, and he needs some relief watching porn."Am I being realistic? Or do I need to get off my high horse? "You are not being realistic. You should get off your horse. Really, I don't know any man that really believe most of the stuff they watch on porn. Also, being a porn actor/actress is not such a humiliating job. It pays your bills, and in this economic crisis, you need to find a way to live. I'm not saying it is a risk free job, and neither saying that the woman in there are in the best conditions. But at least they bring the bread to the table. It is very hard to change the way most men are hardwired to need visual stimulation.Also, I want to end with one last idea. What do you prefer, that your boyfriend seek physical relief in some girl in real life on his trips, or watching porn of a girl who he barely her true name? Your man has a physical need, as strong as the need that you have to be loved and cuddled.I hope you can change your mind a little.[ps: asking your man to stop watching porn is like asking your man to stop going to pee... just keep this in mind]
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): I totally understand where you are coming from. My fiance is addicted to porn and we are both in our twenties. He likes looking at latin women with long black hair and very big boobs. Well get this. I'm latin and have long black hair and big boobs. I have a high sex drive and I'm always willing to satisfy him. He masturbates everynight to porn and it has hurt our relationship. I'm always willing to come to his house after work but he's already taken care of himself and will be too tired to do anything. He's not the best looking guy in the world (hes beautiful in my eyes) but a lot of people feel like he got lucky with me. So I think to myself "why does he need porn when he has me and my high sex drive?" I know that masturbation is healthy and I think it's ok to look at porn every now and then but not all the time. The idea of him being turned on and getting off to another woman depresses me.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): If it is run of the mill porn movies starring porn actresses and actors then yes, you can be reasonably sure that no one is being forced or abused and that they are only doing what they agree to.Its where you get into the amateur territory that you have to exercise caution. But its fairly easy to see if a woman is smashed off her face or something.I respect your opinions and the reasons for their existence. But this is a guy thing. You have to possess a penis and large amounts of testosterone to understand this.You say it degrades women. But by that token you have to say it also degrades men equally. Because the men in the porn industry are paid jack squat. A fraction of what women are. In fact any man in the pron industry has to do gay porn films to earn even close what women do, whether they are actually gay or not.So yes, get off your high horse here. Age isn't the issue in porn either, after Traci Lords hoodwinked the entire industry (she was 16 and got in on a fake I.D. and the fact she was fully developed and looked to be in her 20's) they are notoriously anal about those things. As well as regular STD checks and regular condom use unless its agreed upon by all participants that one is not needed.The porn industry is a business like any other. They have their rules and regulations and woe betide anyone caught disobeying them.You think it's only men who watch porn? Just as many women do as well. And yes all men watch porn. Those that say they aren't are lying to your face. We men have been watching and enjoying porn since our early teens at least. To us, it forms the function that vibrators do for women. An easy, healthy way of releasing sexual tension and desire where being able to do so with our partners might not be possible (you can't be there to have sex with us every time our body requires it, it would be impossible... that would mean you'd have to be at our beck and call 20 times a day). So we jack off to release the steam.Only we prefer a sound and visual stimulation whilst we are masturbating. Women seem to be able to get along just fine with imagination. Men, well, its not as easy for us.Don't try to understand. You have to have penis to understand. Just come to terms with it and ask him to be a little more discreet and not to stockpile the shit like it's gonna rot.Just make sure your own sex life is satisfactory.Flynn 24
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): It's the hardcore bit which is the most concerning. I think you need to talk.
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