A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:Why do men get off on watching women being so obviously humiliated and abused in hardcore porn? For whatever reason the women are made to look as if they are being violated and taken violently for pleasure purposes of those watching....I just read about a woman on here who posted because she was upset her kind and caring boyfriend was watching hardcore porn and she has been totally trashed for not being open minded and understanding enough from some men and women on here.For whatever reason there must be a huge demand for hardcore porn? It would be good to hear from similar that enjoy this type of porn and how it makes them feel and how they justify watching it. Lets make this an honest and open discussion as I am intrigued as to why loving kind otherwise well balanced partners/fathers find this ok....
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male
reader, lovebird86 +, writes (30 September 2022):
 I defend my right for pleasure and not the violence or depravity.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (21 April 2011): I am a man. I have watched a lot of porn over the years, from "female-friendly" softcore porn to full blown 50 man, 1 woman gang bangs, with titles such as 'filthy cock sucking fat slut gets her ass and throat rammed by 10 men at the same time'. Etc. Etc.
With regards to the latter, - the filthly cock sucking fat slut bit - if I'm scrolling the web for something to get me going and that is what catches my fancy, I will get off to it without a care in the world. This is because it is not true to my my life; I know that everyone involved is an adult and has agreed to do what they do in exchange for money; No body is being physically injured (Once or twice I have come across a video that seems genuinely abusive and I've been turned off immediately, sometimes not going back to ANY porn for months).
HOWEVER, if I were to think about a situation such as this about women I know or a woman on the street, or ever expected my girl friend to degrade herself in any way that she doesn't want for only my pleasure, I would agree that I am a horrible human being.
Take what you will from my comment. I think I represent the majority of men's perceptions and experience with this comment. I know I'm anon on here but that's just because I cba signing up to another site. Don't slag me cause I'm honest about my private business please.
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 April 2011): I'm with the op 100%. I don't like pornography. I just want to see naked beautiful women not all this insane ultra gross out nonsense. I don't like how anti-love and romance America is and how laissez faire people pretend to be about sex. I know I'm going to get reemed by other guys for this but I don't care; I've had tragedy in life and all I want is love, I want intimacy and closeness and acceptance. I don't want women to all get used to having meaningless intimacy-less sex.
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 April 2011): I am old and lonsonsome. I am also horney and like so watch sex. Not all women like to participate but there are young and old alike that are horney and can masterbate watching hord core porn. They fulfil their fantcys as do men.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (9 April 2011): I didn't know we were discussing violent porn. I thought we were talking about a man and a woman having sex and filming it.
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female
reader, person12345  +, writes (8 April 2011):
 Yes of course people always think they're right. What's new about that? But the fact is that this is a reflection of the general consensus of most mental health professionals. Almost every meta analysis (which collects all the studies and runs statistics) found that nearly every study came to the same conclusions, that porn, especially violent porn, has negative effects in a lot of cases. There doesn't exist a single respected or well-conducted study that didn't find extremely negative impacts from watching violent pornography (the list of what they found is too long to post here). You won't find many psychologists who have studied the issue who don't think it's a negative thing for most people. So many professionals in the field think this that it's pretty much safe to say it's a consensus. This isn't just "some therapists" this is pretty much all of them. The ONLY studies, believe me, I've looked, that find anything other than a negative influence are correlation studies that find that rape rates haven't increased since porn came around, which almost across the board fail to take into account any reasons for any declines in things like child rape, like say, the fact that it wasn't recognized as a problem until the 70's and 80's. There are also some self-reports of people going, yeah well I don't think it harms me that get circulated but that's obviously problematic to rely on. There is such a strong ratio (more negative effects than neutral or positive) that it's actually somewhat difficult to find that many studies that show a positive effect. Obviously they're out there, but not in anywhere near the same numbers as a negative effect. There are also studies that found no association between lung cancer and smoking, and several that found it decreased cancer rates. But it's fairly well accepted that smoking is terrible for your lungs. I promise you people were EXTREMELY angry about the idea and fought it tooth and nail with claims that the researchers were biased. It took multiple decades for people to even accept the idea that, OK maybe cigarettes aren't that good for you and another few decades for people to realize it was actually bad. The main people involved in all this research, the only ones who have their names associated with it really are, Donnerstein, Linz, Zillman, Bryant, Violato, Malamuth, Haggstrom-Nordin, and Russell if you want to look them up. Also to the male anon, it's a little hard to take you seriously when you post anonymously.
And yes CharliesDevil and Dirtball, you're right that most people who watch porn won't go out and rape someone (though 20% of men do admit to sexually assaulting a woman in their lifetime), but like I said porn doesn't cause people to do things, it just furthers a society where sexual violence and aggression against women is acceptable. The same way Birth of a Nation didn't cause racism, seeing that movie probably made people feel more solid in their hatred of black people.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2011): Confirmation bias is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and/or recall have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a stronger weighting for data encountered early in an arbitrary series) and illusory correlation (in which people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased towards confirming their existing beliefs. Later work explained these results in terms of a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In combination with other effects, this strategy can bias the conclusions that are reached. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another proposal is that people show confirmation bias because they are pragmatically assessing the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Hence they can lead to disastrous decisions, especially in organizational, military, political and social contexts.
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reader, charliesdevil73 +, writes (8 April 2011):
 Person12345, I can see your point of view, but at the same time, I still don't trust all the research. I still liken it to the therapist telling someone they are an alcoholic if they have x amount of drinks per week. I understand you can be MORE likely or LESS likely to do or not do certain things based on your porn viewing habits. But, this is still generalizing a lot of people into one group when some people just like a little bit more to their porn. I don't view horrifically violent acts, but I don't really much care for the girl parading around and then the guy having sex with her. To me, it's boring, I could see that any time my man and I do it (we have a mirrored closet). So, to me, it's about fantasy, like Dirtball said. The whole idea of internal arousal and external actions sums up many of the people who look at porn. They do not always view things they want to do to others or have done to them. I do believe it can become a problem, but I also believe it is not always porn that creates the problem. Sometimes, and I feel many times, the problem is already within the individual and it is only brought out by porn. I feel that porn is a mental addiction and many people are already pre-programed to be easily addicted to things. And what is one of the main things young boys do for the first time that can be addicting? They watch porn. And I also believe porn addiction and abuse of it can be prevented with an open relationship between children and parents. If porn wasn't as taboo as it is, I wholeheartedly believe many men that are addicted now wouldn't be. I also believe there wouldn't be as much violent actions against women. When you have to hide what your fantasies are, it makes them more erotic or taboo, and sometimes you get so entranced by the idea of it that you act it out. Unfortunately, our society, unlike many European societies, still finds porn to be wrong and tells women it is not ok to accept (for the most part). Some women's magazines are now saying porn is ok and to not be threatened by it. And I agree with those magazines. It is only a threat when a man is addicted or abusive becasue of it.And I do feel bad for you that you had bad experiences with partners who used porn. No one should have to deal with that.
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reader, dirtball +, writes (7 April 2011):
 GD I really hate this site sometimes. I just wrote a nice long reply only to have it vanish for no reason! AHHHHHHH!!!! Guess I'll try again.
Person12345, you and I have discussed porn quite a bit in the past and in other threads. You know I respect your opinion and knowledge base on this subject. There is one point you made in this recent reply that I do not agree with though. Here it is: "And it must be a fairly huge disconnect to find out your partner, who says he respects women not only doesn't mind but aroused by degrading and humiliating women. Sorry, but if you like that, you can't say you respect women just like you can't go around calling black people racial slurs and then expect people to believe you when you say you're not racist."
The reason I don't agree with it is it's a difference between internal arousal and external actions. I don't disagree with the idea of a disconnect in the partner, but unless he is actually asking (or worse insisting) for these actions, it's different. People are aroused by all sorts of things. Damning someone just because they are aroused by something taboo would actually alienate much of society. Many people (men and women alike) have rape fantasies they will never act out. Many people are aroused by the idea of incest, or beastiality. But it stays locked in their head. There's a difference between thinking and doing, and your metaphor basically equates thought with action.
I believe it's fully possible to be caring, well adjusted, compassionate, thoughtful, loving, and a generous lover, all while being aroused by many different stimuli. I can still respect people even if I don't like them, just as I can still hold women in high regard despite the fact that I occasionally enjoy watching some domination porn. That's not to say everyone is capable of it, but to think that nobody is is just as ignorant in my opinion.
In my eyes, blaming porn for all these problems is similar to blaming rock music for school shootings. Plenty of people watch it and are fine. Some can't handle it and it taints everything because of it.
Again, I'm not saying that porn isn't a problem. I KNOW it absolutely can be. I just warn against overgeneralization.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (7 April 2011):
CharliesDevil, these researchers are extremely respected in the field of psychology and sexual research. I'm not "hiding behind research," I started researching because I saw something happening and found out more about it. I didn't just go to google, go to the most religious puritanical site I could and copy paste a bunch of quacks. These are peer-reviewed studies in well-respected journals, and I have read through each and every study to check methods before I use them to make sure they aren't just silly correlation studies or someone's preaching. These are not just extensions of social norms anymore than any psychology study is an extension of social norms. Most people are plenty excited to talk about porn. It's not taboo anymore. Anytime I mention the word porn among friends, strangers, at parties, etc... people are practically gnawing at the bit to talk about it. There is no shortage of people more than happy to engage in these studies. They are random samples, not self selected. They also all have sample sizes in the multiple hundreds. The studies are not biased or I would not use them. And the researchers aren't religious or politically oriented. It's a pretty big stretch to say that any researcher with negative things to say about porn MUST be biased. People said all the same things when it first came out that smoking was linked with lung cancer. Many of those scientists were ridiculed and practically chased out of science. How is someone's opinion less valuable if they back up their opinion with scientific studies? It means, here's my opinion, and here are other experts who have done work in the field. How can getting scientific backing for an argument possibly make it LESS credible? The opinion backed by a sort of feeling from one experience, or the opinion backed by hundreds of experts in a field? It's not as though I've never watched porn myself. I used to watch it and enjoy it plenty as a teen. Enjoying something doesn't mean it's not harmful.If you want just my opinion, I can offer that too. I have seen friend's relationships falling apart because of porn use by a partner. I have heard HORRIFYING requests from guys that got an idea from porn. I have watched a friend go through a porn addiction and go from quiet and sweet to unable to look women in the eye and talking non-stop about extreme sex acts before dropping out of school. The pressure my female friends are under to look like porn stars, waxing all their pubic hair off, dieting, researching new uncomfortable positions, forgoing their own orgasms and pleasure to please their boyfriend, is insane. Most of them also talk about wanting larger breasts even when theirs are a normal size. One of my friends was gang raped at a party after they watched a porn about it and proceeded to act it out on her, even repeating lines from it. Most of the men I've been with who used porn have been incompetent in bed, completely oblivious to my needs or wants, and I've heard this complaint from many, many women. Many women come on this site because something about their partner's porn use is hurting or upsetting them, we have over 2,000 questions on this topic alone, with thousands of responses from other women who feel the same way. We get several questions a week from women about their labia, men insecure about their penis size, men wanting their girlfriends to perform anal sex without regard to whether the woman would like or enjoy it, questions about wanting to ejaculate in women's faces (which is pretty much the same thing as spitting in someone's face). We have one today even, with a man who sounds downright angry his wife won't allow it. I've had numerous friends come to me crying because their boyfriend threatened to break up with them unless they performed x for them (usually anal) and they didn't want to do it since it hurt. And their boyfriend did not care in the least. There are articles in well-respected magazines talking about how sexy it is when women go through pain to fulfill a man's sex wants. And it must be a fairly huge disconnect to find out your partner, who says he respects women not only doesn't mind but aroused by degrading and humiliating women. Sorry, but if you like that, you can't say you respect women just like you can't go around calling black people racial slurs and then expect people to believe you when you say you're not racist. Almost all of these videos are titled things with derogatory names for women and some form of thing to do to (not with) them.And it is my opinion, as well as the opinion of much of the psychology field, that degrading and violent porn is harmful in a world where women are raped in enormous numbers and are the victims of sexual crimes at 6 times the rate of men, where it is still considered funny and entertaining to rape women on TV or in movies, where according to the Senate in the US fewer than 3% of all sexual assaults that occur each year end in any form of conviction, where in Japan women were so likely to be sexually assaulted in their day to day lives that they had to segregate the trains by sex, where in South Africa women are more likely to be raped than learn to read, that yes, violent and degrading porn is a problem. If sexual violence against women is still occurring in epidemic proportions and most law enforcement don't even begin to take it seriously, yes it is a huge problem when people continue to reinforce the idea that violence against women is sexy through the mass distribution of violent and degrading porn. It is my personal opinion, as well the opinion of the majority of the psychology world, that pornography is having a horrible effect on relationships, and on people. There is a ton of research showing that when people, both men and women, watch violent porn, they have significantly less empathy for rape victims, are significantly less likely to believe the victim, and are significantly more likely to believe rape myths such as that all women secretly want to be raped or that there are scenarios when a woman can be "asking for it." So it doesn't really matter if you are a man or a woman, both sexes felt this after watching violent porn.
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reader, charliesdevil73 +, writes (7 April 2011):
I couldn't even finish reading all these posts without getting upset that so many people hide behind research. These studies that"prove" porn is so degrading on women are done by the same type of people who say more than 2 drinks a week for women means they're an alcoholic. Both are based on social norms. Since most people won't admit they enjoy porn and what specific type for fear they will be ridiculed, these porn studies only speak for a small handful of people. Now I don't care if you love, like, or hate porn. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, if you are going to argue against porn, please use your own true opinion, don't just quote some study you read about.And lastly, some women do get off to more bondage, humiliating, or whatever you want to call it, porn. I myself am one of them. And I used to hate that my fiance looked at porn too, until I gave it a go. I didn't hide behind the statistics I read about it, I got down and dirty and did my own research. And for the record, my fiance only watches it for the actual penetration scenes, and he likes the more sensual stuff too. I guess I am the one in our household who demoralizes women if you believe in those studies.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2011): When you guys get this bothersome issue of porn settled you can start dealing with a more relevant issue that will be easier to fix.Get cats to bark like dogs and dogs to meow and purr. It will be quicker and less aggravating.
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reader, smiliek  +, writes (7 April 2011):
 reading some of this, it seems to paint men who watch porn as some horrid being who will treat any woman like a sex slave and want to humilate her. Well, i don't think that. My hubby sometimes watches porn. Before we were married i found this out and i did go through insecurity relating to it. Due to my ignorance i thought guys who were getting enough sex didn't masturbate, ever. Hence why i thought my hubby (bf at the time) was sick of me and that i wasn't giving him enough. So i talked to him. I was very wrong with thinking he wasn't happy with me and that i wasn't giving him enough. He cried because he couldn't believe he'd hurt me without realising. We talked about porn, masturbating, us and our sex life. Our relationship grew stronger from open communication and i also posted here and read alot about porn to find out what other guys thought about it. I wondered If my hubby was a rare male or if it was a general view. While there are a few who seem to think porn actresses are fantastic etc etc most mention they get turned on by viewing the act of sex and use it mearly as a masturbation tool. My hubby doesn't use it often and our sex is still great and always comes first. Porn has never stopped hubby wanting me and he has certainly never wanted me humiliated or anything that you can see in porn. He mostly watches bjs which i have always enjoyed giving him. As for degrading, i once wanted him to cum on me while i was giving him a bj. I'd never seen porn at that stage and he'd never ever asked for it. I simply thought it'd be a different and hopefully enjoyable way to finish. He was actually hesitant as he thought i'd hate it. I told him to do it anyway and honestly i didn't find it degrading or humiliating at all. I liked it. Afterwards he told me he'd seen that happen only in vids and always thought it was kinda gross. But he enjoyed the fact that i liked it. Does that mean i'm some kind of messed up, humiliated woman because i enjoy getting my guy off and like trying new things? I don't think so. I'm confident in my relationship and my own sexuality and i know what i will and won't accept. I don't find my hubbys 'cumshot' bad in any way, shape or form. He now doesn't want that often but sometimes he will ask if he can go on me. I've heard woman say that its a controlling thing guys do to show who's in charge. I think its the opposite. I have control of him and his orgasm. Fairly sure that means that i'm the one controlling at that stage. If i didn't want it i wouldn't do it. So in my opinion porn hasn't made my guy think to humiliate or degrade women. He's the sweetest man i know and helps me with everything i do. Sure he uses porn sometimes and we've even watched it together, but i know that he views it as a fictional short film used only to get off quickly. Considering he's told me he only does it himself as a stress release, never when i'm at home, and always wants to do stuff with me after he's done something himself, i don't view it as a threat to me or our relationship at all. I'm sure there are some women forced to do stuff in porn that they don't want to do, i'm sure there are many many bad aspects to it. But i accept its occaisonal use in my relationship as i don't think it affects my hubby the way i've read about it affecting other people. I wouldn't want to control him and tell never to watch porn because i'm worried about what he might see or if he can't seperate reality from acting. I don't view it as complete fantasy, but at the same time i'd rather he watch someone he doesnt know on a screen have sex then imagine himself with some other woman that he does know. Him thinking about someone he knows and fantasising about her seems far more threatening then a porn clip. Thats just my opinion and i'm happy with my man, and my relationship without worrying about porn.
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): I give up, I deleted all my responses because any time I disagree I get accused of personal attacks because apparently disagreeing with someones opinion is offensive and really I don't care enough about this topic to continue the debate.
I let the people that do care have their say and if they don't care what effect their negative opinions have on people in need of more than just their perspective then I'll leave it at that. Let's hope that subjecting people to such a negative perspective on a menial topic doesn't damage that many relationships through fear mongering.
I tried to offer another side to the debate but honestly continuing this discussion here like this is pretty pointless seeing as this matter is so touchy people can't accept criticism of their opinions and if they want to let this issue ruin theirs and others lives then I'm not that bothered.
Porn is a part of my life, I like it, it hasn't had any negative effects on my life and I feel no need to defend it anymore. I found a nice facial video my girlfriend will like. So I'm just going to put that on sit back, relax and enjoy the work that the actress made with a bug ass smile on her face and a big fat pay check in her wallet.
I'll let other people worry whether she enjoyed doing that or not, I know me and my girlfriend will certainly get lots of pleasure watching her.
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): Female anon 6th April. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting into words how I have felt for years about my ex husband's use of porn. I wish I could have expressed this to him years ago and he may have understood me a bit better.
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reader, dirtball +, writes (6 April 2011):
For me, there's no cognitive dissonance with this kind of porn. The reason is that I KNOW I will only act out these fantasies if my partner requests me to. I hold women in high regard. I feel they are often undervalued by society and by the people they love. That doesn't change the fact that from time to time, I enjoy watching something that many would find absolutely disgusting. Why is that? Because I have all sorts of fantasies (non-porn based). Most of which I will never have the opportunity to live out in real life. Depending on my mood, I may watch a scene of a man and his secretary, or maybe a domination, or maybe an amateur, or maybe humiliation (male and female). These scenes are triggers to my imagination, however I can separate what's real from what's fantasy. It's true that the people in porn are real people, and they are engaging in a real act, but it's an act that is directed by someone else. They are actors in a scene, and to me, that makes it fake and fantasy.
That's not to say however that other people react the same way as I do. I think that the number of questions we have here from kids asking about anal sex is directly correlated to the ease of access to porn that the internet provides. It is shaping people's sexuality in a way it didn't in the past. I think this is due to the earlier age at which people begin viewing porn on a regular basis. I saw my first porn somewhere around 12 years old, however I didn't see another one until I was 17, and then it was an old VHS tape. I didn't have access to the internet and thousands of videos at the click of a mouse. Because of that, porn didn't really shape my sexuality, my experiences did.
When we're in those developmental stages, I think that's when porn is most detrimental. Once healthy connections are made in the brain, it becomes much easier to separate what you see on the screen to what happens in real life. Those of us who grew up before easy access to porn have an advantage here, but that doesn't mean we're immune.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (6 April 2011):
Cerberus, I was going to send you a PM telling you to try to get ahold of yourself and stop attacking me for my opinion that I think depictions of women as cumbuckets are damaging to women, I think I'll say it here since it's relevant to several people on here.
Whenever I bring up the idea that pornography is harmful to women I'm met with absolute RAGE from some people, both men and women. Not, I disagree with you, let's debate, but downright rage. OPs who express an anti porn stance are ridiculed and treated disgustingly badly (told they will die alone and miserable with their cats, told they are stupid, etc...). I had someone who is normally mild mannered get up and throw a chair once. I had a professional "pro-porn" feminist start shaking and walk out of a talk. This is not because people feel like they disagree in a normal way. I am not personally oppressing anyone. I am not removing anyone's agency. I give my opinion and people either listen or they don't. This anger is an emotional reaction due to something called cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance is when a personal tries, unsuccessfully, to reconcile two conflicting ideas in his or her head. Because the two ideas simply can't work, the brain sort of stops trying and is flooded with some form of strong emotion. It's natural to always believe your own opinion is right. We all do this. Cognitive dissonance happens when our own opinions are challenged with contrary evidence that we can't refute and our brains can't figure out how to flip it so out comes emotion instead, in this case anger. Which means your extremely over the top emotional responses are basically just proving my point and are in a weird way, your brain's subconscious way of agreeing with me. The reason this issue is surrounded by such intense anger by the pro-porn people is your brain can't connect the two ideas, "I love women" with "I am aroused by watching women be humiliated" so out comes anger.
I know when I cite research and actually do work on this other than wanking to porn, it makes you angry. But it's more cognitive dissonance. Otherwise you wouldn't react so strongly, you'd state your point (not an attack on me, but your own point) and move on. My use of research makes you more furious than anything else I've used, because I have 50 years of research to pick through, hundreds of anecdotes, plus my own experience and all you have is your own personal opinion. I've consulted multiple psychiatrists and psychology professors and peer-reviewed studies, and everyone agrees this is why people are so furious about porn. I filmed an encounter with someone I knew would end badly and played it, I copied and pasted conversations from email and debates from other websites, and absolutely everyone agrees, without even having to think about it, that this is what's going on. People get so angry because on some level I'm right.
Now onto what you said about me believing women are delicate flowers who need protection. I nowhere said women shouldn't be allowed to be in porn. It's a ridiculous strawman. No one would respond to the statement that sweatshop workers in India are being exploited and treated like crap with that argument, it's no different with the sex industry. When someone says big businesses treat their workers like crap, no one rushes to say people should stop attacking worker's rights to be exploited is they choose to be. I never said anything about the women being helpless. The issue is the people who want to make this horrible stuff, the issue is the people who buy it.
And as for whether violent porn causes violence? The studies that have been done on showed such a strong significance between viewing hardcore pornography and subsequent aggression against women that future studies were unable to be funded since it was shown to be such a harmful substance by ethics committees. The most prominent researcher said publicly that the correlation was much stronger than the relationship between smoking and lung cancer. So it doesn't really matter if it's what people want to see, it's harmful to others. It's kind of like people can choose to smoke and ruin their own lungs, but when their second hand smoke is giving people lung cancer, it's a problem.
I am one-sided on this because the vast vast vast vast vast majority of research and evidence is one-sided. The vast majority of well-conducted scientific research on the subject shows without doubt that viewing pretty much all hardcore pornography creates horrible views of women. Even Playboy centerfold type things reinforce negative sex stereotypes in people and create false expectations of a person's partner. In case you were wondering I used to be on the other side, I used to think pornography was fun and used it frequently. But I allowed myself to actually look at the evidence and be convinced.
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): Just chiming in here. What “A female reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011):” says actually answers your question to the full, more than complete and perfectly, and I couldn’t agree more! Now why do I get off on watching porn?To see the women of course, it’s all about the women. I like to see those incredibly stunning women getting their brains shagged out, giving head jobs, getting shagged in different positions, having sex with other women, getting covered in cum, swallowing cum and doing all this with fantastic enthusiasm. You call this the humiliation and violation of women, I call this the glorification of women.If I didn’t find the women in porn attractive then I wouldn’t find my wife attractive. If I didn’t like the sex in porn then I wouldn’t be interested in having sex with my wife either. You need to start seeing this crazed attraction that the male species has towards the female half of the race as a compliment! We men adore women, and we love women to bits!
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): What the body is to a man, the mind is to a woman. Women treasure mental intimacy like men prize physical intimacy. And just like men expect women to keep their bodies exclusively for them, women expect their men to do the same with their minds.
I am just now beginning to understand what women mean when they say the brain is a sex organ. And I am just now recognizing why a wife feels so betrayed when her husband allows pornography to fondle his mind. She is deeply wounded on at least two levels.
First, pornography violates a wife’s exclusive domain.
Please bear with me as I illustrate the significance of this truth. My purpose is to help men appreciate the anguish women often experience, not to be offensive.
If you are a man, imagine your wife walking through a room full of men. They turn to notice her. Many leer. One reaches out and begins fondling intimate parts of her body. What do you hope she will do?
Every man hopes his wife will consider her body the exclusive domain of her husband, reserved for him alone—his eyes, his hands, his enjoyment—granting access to no other person. He hopes she will be offended, utterly outraged when touched by someone other than her husband. He hopes she will slap the violator’s hand away and then move quickly toward the exit. Every man expects his wife to guard her body from interloping hands, whether he’s present or not.
Now imagine the unthinkable. In response to the man touching her body, she pauses and smiles at him as he continues to grope. Another man sees an opportunity and touches another part of her. She doesn’t respond in kind, but she doesn’t rush for the door, either. In fact, she appears to enjoy the attention.
How do you feel right now?
This is how a woman feels when her husband allows sensual images to grope his mind, her exclusive domain.
Now imagine the additional pain you would experience if, after confronting your wife’s behavior, she justified or rationalized or minimized the incident. Oh, honey, it was harmless. I didn’t do anything in return. Besides, God made me an attractive woman; I can’t help what men try to do. The world is full of men who will try to touch me, should I lock myself away and avoid the whole world? You’re the only one for me, really. That incident didn’t mean anything!
There’s a lot of truth in what she says. She can’t help what a world full of men think or even try to do. Locking herself away isn’t a realistic answer. Perhaps to her it did mean nothing. But none of that is important. The facts are these: It meant something to you; she should care about that. She can’t control the actions of others; however, she can guard her response. She can’t stop men from leering, but she can avoid risky environments. Someday a man might try to touch her inappropriately, but she can slap his hand away and remove herself from the situation.
Sensual images seem less significant, less threatening to men. But not to women. A wife needs to know—not merely by her husband’s words, but by his behavior—that his mind is completely devoted to her. She understands that the world will continue to assault men with sensual images; nevertheless, she wants—no, she needs her man to protect and preserve what belongs to her.
Second, pornography destroys the foundation upon which a wife builds security.
Based on more than twenty years of research and innumerable hours in couples’ therapy, Willard Harley reduced the needs of women to a single word: security.
“A sense of security is the bright golden thread woven through all of a woman’s five basic needs. If a husband does not keep up honest and open communication with his wife, he undermines her trust and eventually destroys her security.”
Pornography is almost always a secret sin, the core element of a hidden other life. When a woman discovers that her husband has been devoting portions of his mind to sexually gratifying images and then closing off those areas to her, the revelation shakes her world to its very foundation. She naturally begins to wonder what other terrible secrets occupy the mind she thought she knew so well. And if she had been so mistaken about knowing her man’s mind, how can she be certain of anything else? Furthermore, his dishonesty destroys her trust, the essential basis of any relationship.
Ironically, when men discover they are victims of adultery, they frequently describe similar thoughts.
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reader, idoneitagain +, writes (6 April 2011):
@ person12345 I agree with much of what you say, but I think it is useful to make a distinction between that which is fantasy and that which is not. It is also important to distinguish from which viewpoint. Failing to do this means you and other posters are comparing apples and oranges.You make a blanket statement that porn is not fantasy, and you go on to state what fantasy implies, or should imply in your opinion. I feel that you are arguing sematics, such as the difference between fantasy, fantasize, or proection. A quick google for the definition on dictionary.com yeilds an appropriate first two definitions for the sake of this post: noun 1. imagination, especially when extravagant and unrestrained. 2. the forming of mental images, especially wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing. In porn, the fantasy aspect is not that the porn originates in the head of the viewer through their own creativity and imagination, rather the (unrestrained, extravagant) fantasized projections of the viewer into the pornographic scene as a viewer/participant, able to project their sexual desires through identification with the actors, in the same way we do when watching a regular movie or go to the theatre, we identify. This is an aspect of fantasy, it doesn't mean your point isnt true, it simply means you are arguing a different point to those which others are suggesting, apples and oranges. As you point out, it certainly isn't fantasy for the performers!This also ties in to the question posted. A big part of the reason why people watch pornography is that they can project aspects of themselves that they are unable, or unwilling, to act out. Many of these aspects are unconscious, such as the aspects relating to power and violence. Our current society is prohibitive in its expressions of voilence and power, which is not a bad thing, but individuals often have no vehicle of expression for their FEELINGS relating to violence, power, sexuality, depression, and others. Without being able to talk about these things or find another outlet for their expression, many people turn to movies, pornography, video games, TV, music, and other forms they can use to project their unfulfilled desires. The abuse of drugs and alcohol also provides a vehicle for the expression of these desires, most often in ways which are unhealthy, but there is a definite relationship between drug and alcohol abuse and the expression of violence and sexual desire. Many people also express these aspects through their primary relationships, again often in ways that are not healthy, manifesting in many of the problems we read about on this website. Better vehicles of expression, as person12345 implies, are those which are creative expressions which don't involve projecting those fantasies directly onto other people - its better to paint an image or write a story of someone being killed to express your inner feelings of violence than to actually kill someone :)In short, it is one point of view that people in society watch porn as a vehicle for the expression of many parts of us which are repressed by the society we live in, and for which people have no other expression.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (6 April 2011):
Sorry, but this idea of it being fantasy is very VERY troublesome. Porn isn't fantasy. Fantasy implies that it is something you created in your head, something that requires some amount of creativity. I cannot think of anything more opposite of creativity in sexuality than porn. It is large corporations dictating to the world what their sexuality should be, what they should be aroused by. It is taking a wide range of human sexuality and narrowly boxing it to be marketable. It is cold and it is emotionless. To even call it sex is insulting to actual sexuality. The most troubling part is, people used to realize that what was in porn was fake. Now many people think it's what sex is or should be. Further, fantasy, by definition, is something you wish would be real. Since porn is so degrading and violent, I really hope that's not the case though it must be at least to some extent. And I don't care how many people like it, reinforcing the connection between violence against women and sexual arousal can have horrible consequences (there are literally thousands of studies showing the connection between violent hardcore material and an increased likelihood of thinking they might rape someone if they could get away with it, decreased empathy for rape victims, etc...) and shouldn't be celebrated. In a world where violence against women, especially sexual violence, is still happening in epidemic proportions, it's fairly horrifying that depictions of this are passed out as acceptable masturbation fodder. Porn doesn't cause otherwise non-violent people to rape, but for someone who is already inclined to it's just fuel to the flames.And what you see is far more real than someone dying in a movie. Some of what they are doing is acting and I'm sure most "abuse" is acted (though like I said, why depict it?) but they aren't acting the sex and penetration. They are actually being penetrated, women are actually getting cumshots to their face, women are actually getting triple penetrated. Women are actually getting their heads shoved in a toilet. Women are actually gagging on penises. People are actually getting STDs. The women who get prolapsed rectums from repeated rough anal penetration aren't acting. Porn is not just some harmless fantasy, people actually get hurt. Those women actually have all that happen to them. It's not CGI or some sort of Hollywood magic. Porn is not fantasy anymore than McDonalds is home cooking.
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): I am 70% straight 30% gay male but I like to cross dress and be "violated and taken violently for pleasure" by both men and women. I'm also in to a fair bit of SandM with both men and women.If being "violated and taken violently for pleasure" isn't your thing then you'll never understand the simple pleasures of it and the desire for it. I can however see how to you it must seem like violent violation.As for desensitization there is an element of it I'd have to admit, but frankly; I don't think my desire to be "violently violated" would have been diminished if there was no internet and there was no porn. If anything there'd just have been an equally strong but twisted burning unrealised desire for something I was too ignorant to understand and thus realise. Ignorance is always a bad thing.
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): I have to say that I'm getting a bit bored with these questions about porn. This will probably be the last time I attempt to answer one...Porn is not real. It is a fantasy. Sure it 'happened' when it was filmed but that doesn't make it 'real', much in the same way that Mel Gibson didn't really die in Bravehart - it 'happened' when it was filmed but that doesn't make it 'real'. By the same token the women in porn may appear to be humiliated and abused because that's what they are paid to act like. Porn, like any other industry, is heavily regulated and the notion that you could get away with filming 'real' abuse is laughable. They are actors and actresses paid to act out a certain scene. When you think about it it's really only one step further from what 'professional' actors/actresses (not in the porn industry) are paid to do.... think spartacus or original sin..I watch porn and I enjoy it. Sometimes I watch hardcore porn, sometimes I watch FF (Female Friendly) porn, sometimes it's CFNM and sometimes it's scene specific. I don't justify it by any other means than the fact that I like it. Why? Because I don't have to justify it to anyone but myself. Quite frankly it's not yours (or anyone else's) business what I do or do not watch in my spare time.As a woman that enjoys porn it annoys me when silly little girls post obviously judgemental question because at the end of the day it's almost always related to their own insecurities rather than the actual contents.Some of my female friends were having this discussion the other day and I was surprised to find that some of the more 'feminist' characters openly admitting to watching and enjoying it. They, unlike insecure women, have usually done their research and come to the conclusion that there's is not much to be concerned about in terms of the treatment of the porn actresses.
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reader, person12345 +, writes (6 April 2011):
I already answered this on this question:http://www.dearcupid.org/question/boyfriend-and-i-have-completely-opposing-views-on.htmlBut as for there being a demand for violent porn where women get humiliated and degraded? It's because that's what a lot of people want to see. Demand drives supply, not the other way around. They wouldn't produce it if that's not what people wanted to see. And remember, they wouldn't watch it if they didn't get turned on by it. So if someone is watching women being humiliated, that means they are aroused by it. I'd personally wonder about someone who claims to love women while being able to orgasm while watching them be treated that way.And I have to disagree with the idea of it being just a fantasy. It's not. The person didn't think of it himself, he was shown it. And it happened in the real world. That actually happened to someone. That scene took place in real life.But Dirtball is right on about the desensitization. Lots of people talk about how they started out with just pictures, but it just didn't do it for them so they sought out more and more extreme images. I don't think many start out with the purpose of watching horrible things happen to people (mostly women).As for the prevalence of this stuff? I've already cited this several times, but the most prominent study I could find on this found that in several hundred of the most popular hardcore titles over 80% had some form of violence against women and fewer than 5% had some form of affection such as hugging, smiling, laughing, discussion of consent, etc...I'll leave you with this quote about the popularity of money shot from producer Bill Margold, "I'd like to really show what I believe the men want to see: violence against women. I firmly believe that we serve a purpose by showing that. The most violent we can get is the cum shot in the face. Men get off behind that because they get even with the women they can't have."
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reader, smiliek +, writes (6 April 2011):
i mustn't see what this hardcore stuff is. I've seen some porn sites that listed hardcore and it was just sex. The bondage or whatever was under some other title. When i see someone's written hardcore i actually think they just mean sex not beating or bondage etc.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2011): If I found hardcore porn on my boyfriend's computer I would find it disturbing and it would definitely change the way I feel about him.
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reader, dirtball +, writes (5 April 2011):
Because it's fantasy, and one that many of them have, but will never live out because they would feel very wrong doing it. Some women actually do enjoy it too.
I don't know the stats on demand, but often when it comes to porn, people desensitize, and need to step up how extreme the things they watch are in order for the same arrousal. Because of that it may go from a simple sex scene, to rougher, to bondage, to beastiality... You never know.
It all depends on if they carry it over into their personal sex life. People have all sorts of fucked up fantasies that go on in their head. That doesn't make them wrong if they don't act on them. The same goes for porn, it's just a fantasy on screen.
That's not to say it can't be a problem. It can be a huge problem for some people, but for others it truly is a non issue.
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