A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:Why do men expect women to be ok with being categories into body part in porn. Like big breast , small breast , big ass, skinny , young , old , black , white , Latino etc.The list goes on . Yet besides a reasonable sized penis , are men ever categorised like meat in a butchers shop? In fact , often the man is significantly older or worse looking than the femaleOf course some women may be oblivious or not care about this blatant double standard and objectification but many do. Why is if that men use silly comparisons like novels or saying men are visual as excuses to dismiss the feelings of those who take issue with this?Why do some people think the fact that it sexually excites them makes it ok to represent the female gender and women this way ?
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male
reader, empty-1  +, writes (15 June 2015):
And yet again, you are also factually incorrect in your assertion that -only- females are categorized by appearance.
There are searchable categories on many sites, and in many video stores for men meeting the following descriptions:
Big dick
small dick
young men
old men
fat men
hairy men
muscular men
black men
white men
Asian men
And that's JUST in the straight porn sections. It doesn't even touch the gay porn. Your basic premises are fatally flawed.
Then, there's also porn for women, by women. Is that demeaning too? What about publications like playgirl? You insist on demonizing an entire industry, along with anyone who patronizes any corner of that industry, and you base your condemnation on false statements about part of the industry.
Let's stop beating around the bush. You don't like porn. That's fine, nobody's asking you to. You don't want your man to like porn. That's fine too, you are free to find for yourself a man that doesn't like it any more than you do.
You man NOT tell me that I shouldn't like it. You may not tell me that I am somehow morally or ethically inferior to you because I do.
Your entire argument hinges on the false statement that the mere existence of this sort of entertainment belittles all women. This is a ridiculous statement on its face. This is the sort of statement that comes from the same extremists who came up with the theory that all heterosexual contact is rape. It's complete and utter bullshit.
I've had this argument with men. I've had it with women. I've had this argument with both religious and secular people. I've played devil's advocate and argued for your position. The most effective arguments against porn don't rely on this statement, because it falls apart the minute a thinking person engages with it.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2015): The wording of your leading 'question' says it all, with the ready-made answer it seeks, so what exactly was the point of asking it?
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A
male
reader, empty-1 +, writes (15 June 2015):
ROFL
I don't think you're jealous. The pic I posted a link to was just supposed to be a laugh. Nothing more.
And yet you fail to even begin to address the remainder of my points.
You aren't taking an 'ethical' point of view. You are certainly taking a 'personal' one, but to take an ethical point of view on anything, you have to have well reasoned logic and principal on your side. The only thing you can seem to muster in place of this is circular reasoning that boils down to the following:
I don't like it, so it must be wrong. If I keep pointing out how many ways it bothers me, eventually everyone will have to agree that it's just morally wrong.
This is the crux and core of your argument. Whenever you try to bring anything more substantive to bear, it is very easily torn apart. Remember that so called 'study' you tried to use as a silver bullet - right up until a few of us were able to point out just how weak and obviously biased the whole premise of that tissue was? When that failed, you went right back to "well, I don't like it".
You are continuing to repeat the phrase "A lot of women" as if you had some manner of plurality in your corner. You don't. However, as is quite typical of politicians in this country, if you repeat it often and loud enough people might start to believe you.
As I pointed out earlier, you have been doing nothing of any real value here. You come on here weekly to do nothing but grind your axe and stir the pot. You've had dozens disagreeing with you and scant few agree with anything you have to say.
Remember when you tried to argue that MOST porn is about VIOLENCE? Did you even bother to account for the full HALF of the pornographic content that doesn't involve a male on screen at all? Are all these women in their strip tease type vids, masturbation type vids, or lesbian type vids all being violent to themselves to proxy for a man? Even if ALL of the remaining half involved violent behavior (which it doesn't) then your argument would STILL lose because not all of the remaining content involves females!
Take a good look at my history on this site lady. I offer real advice to real people who are hurting. I may not be -THE- most popular respondent here, but 'm not far off either. Some people may not want to read what I have to tell them, but humans often don't want to hear what they need to hear.
To make the issue personal - about me and my habits. Well, let's go there. I enjoy porn. I view material that could be called pornographic roughly 3-5 times a week. Does that make it an addiction? Not according to the American Psychiatric Association, whose definition would require me to suffer from some other sexual dysfunction, or interruption to the rest of my life. I am neither sexually diminished nor does porn get in the way of anything else I do. I don't waste time that should be spent on more important tasks on it, nor do I have a problem maintaining a very healthy activity level with my wife. Further, when I do abstain from porn viewing, it doesn't change either of those factors - so you tell me, based on what criteria, and on which professional standard do you diagnose me to be an addict?
To allow for your free speech? Didn't I try to exactly help you protect your ability for that? I tried to warn that the repeated starting of new threads to hash out the same topic might piss off the admins. That was my way of saying "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". I am not in the least threatened by your stance - Quite the contrary - I want the opportunity to continue our debate. I am enjoying this, though I would rather debate this with a more capable communicator, who could effectively express an argument more substantive than the prattle you've offered so far.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2015): Ummmm not even sure that argument below about men being more visual makes any sense whatsoever ..... If you stand by gender stereotypes.Does women being more 'emotional' make it ok for then to have emotional affairs??? Many women feel a husbands visual affair with porn is infidelity ie getting off to images off to images of other naked women You can't say men have some innate visual need that women don't that they should be allowed to meet and then deny a woman her innate need being met !!!!!
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2015): Men ARE more visual when it comes to sex.
I am not saying that justifies anything. Men are naturally more violent than women too but violent behavior is not more acceptable for men.
Regardless of the implications, it is true: Men are more visual than women when it comes to sex. It's amazing that something so obvious has to be defended in this day & age.
What if this men=visual idea was being used to demean & belittle men, instead of defending something that the male-bashers don't like? I doubt the male bashers would be very critical of it then.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2015): Op here , Thanks euphoria , great link and also some other very insightful posts
As for empty 1 , me thinks the man doth protest too much. It is interesting to me how it's so popular it is to be pro porn but the minute a woman takes ethical or personal issue with it she is automatically labelled 'jealous '. That to me highlights the mysogynistic and sexist attitudes reinforced in heavy porn users . For a man to assume any woman who objects to porn is jealous is equivalent of a woman saying that a man who gets so upset by her objections perhaps has an issue with porn addiction that he needs to address
If porn users want the right to 'free speech ' then they must also allow that in those who are this industry as damaging and demeaning to women.
Other than that some really I interesting imput particulaty relating to the gay porn and it also being catagorised . Thanks everyone
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A
female
reader, Euphoria30  +, writes (14 June 2015):
Dear OP,
We put people into categories in real life and also on the internet. By this, we make life and thinking easier. BUT: We also create stereotypes and over-simplify reality.
It can be very de-humanizing to do that, to see human beings just as part of a group, and to collectively accuse them of some vice, short-coming, problem etc.
I hope you get my hint..
But in case you don't, here's a video of a very smart man objecting to porn. So, at least you can see, not all men are alike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJ_QfP2mhU
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A
female
reader, like I see it +, writes (14 June 2015):
 Check out any gay male porn site (for men, BY men, ABOUT men exclusively) and you will see exactly the same categorization of performers - by physical characteristics and sex acts they perform.
So I suspect it's less about objectifying women and more about being a quick and dirty Dewey Decimal System of sorts for porn videos. The average user likely doesn't want to wade through literally thousands of unorganized videos showing things they AREN'T into to find one that does. Breaking it down by category enables people to navigate more readily to something that happens to "do it" for them.
Porn tends to be marketed to men because most porn users ARE men. Straight men don't generally watch porn for the men in it; they watch porn for the women in it, so any categories for porn that features women will necessarily be based around what the women look like and are doing. Not because women are necessarily objects, but because they are the focal point of straight porn films.
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A
male
reader, empty-1 +, writes (14 June 2015):
http://global3.memecdn.com/jealousy_c_271741.jpg
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A
male
reader, empty-1 +, writes (14 June 2015):
This is the third thread you've started on this topic in the last month alone. I've read back through some much older posts, and there are some that sound very much like your written style on this same soap box for years.
Do you really feel like you're making any headway?
Don't you have anything at all better to do with your time? Do you think that by coming on here to repeatedly grind this axe you're going to single handedly end a multi billion dollar industry?
I'm pretty sure there's terms of use you agreed to when signing on to this site and posting a question. This isn't a public town square, the site is hosted privately, and your freedom of speech extends only as far as the owner and admins say it does. If you want to continue to use this site I would suggest you look in to whether or not abusing your posting privilege for the purpose of soapboxing a political agenda of censorship is permitted under the TOS.
No I'm not an admin, nor do I speak for them. That was a bit of friendly advice from someone who may disagree with you, but doesn't want to see the banhammer come out. I've been hanging around forums like this long enough to know they can ban your IP address from connecting to the site at all of they so choose.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 June 2015): So the overwhelming answer here is obviously that krn don't care because they don't have to and yes I agree that none of us is under any obligation to be a decent human being or treat others with respect
I guess that the way I was raised (non religious btw but humanist) which was to treat all humans as equals is incompatible with the world view of porn and that's why I find it so difficult to understand how so many are ok with it
As for the person who suggested I start a website without catagoriea. I think they misunderstood my queation. The issue I have is not in underrstanding why the sites are like that. It is why is it ONLY women who are treated like meat in a butchers window and broken down into body parts . It's clearly because the consumers are mainly men and that is what sells to men
However if say it were one particular racial group who was treated this way ? There would be outrage . Yet because it's women it's ok
Until people start looking at the wider picture and realising it's not as narrow as the tiny percentage of women who perform in porn but affects ALL women there will be increasing problems. It particularly sad seeing females with names that have dates such as '89' who have been raised to think this treatment of their Gender is ok
I asked this queation trying to understand the think behind it being ok go break a human body into
Chunks of meat ...simply because she is female ... But the only answer ... Because men don't care and don't have to !
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A
female
reader, Flower89  +, writes (13 June 2015):
 Hi,
It was myself who said why don't you ask the women!
I wasn't blaiming other women or shaming then, you preach equal rights? Well aren't women allowed to provide the service if they choose to?
Yes there is a lot of underground stuff going on in the sex industry, but porn? The stars decide for themselves this is something they want to do! Why should the Women in it be shamed for it?
I am a girl thank you very much!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2015): It's seems unlikely that the 'female anon below who says its the porn Stars faults is actually a female ... Although females can indeed be mysogynistics... It's very sad when a woman turns against her own gender and even see the girls in porn as seperate to herself and females around the world ... Only shows she has lost touch with her humanity ... Which porn does cause
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2015): This is clearly a hot-button issue for you. You should avoid men with the wrong porn viewpoints or habits FOR YOU. Trying to change men who don't match what you want is a losing game. Men without porn habits, or men with non-offensive porn habits, do exist. And you know what? It's really not their problem to start existing even if they didn't. So what if a lot of women want men without porn habits? That does not automatically entitle the female population to have as many of porn-free men as they want. A lot of men want virgin women too. But it is those men's problem to find a virgin or compromise. We don't demand that the female population provide as many virgins as necessary to make dating easy for those men.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2015): I don't that the .00001 percentage of the female population should be held accountable whilst the 90 percent of men using the industry should be excused !!!!! Whether it's going anywhere or not doesn't make it ok to condone and support the catagorisation of women's bodies , although it may be the tiny percentagr of women performing in porn
Who are literally catagorised ... Porn encourages and send the message that ALL women are a series of either pirn worthy or non porn worthy body parts and holes
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2015): When it comes to porn users, they expect to find stuff quickly. Since websites care about the user experience they categorize sexual action so that the consumer can find it quickly. It's similar to a grocery store business where various vegetables are sorted so you as a consumer can get to it without frustration. If you are not OK with that, then start a website of your own without categories and see for yourself how long you stay in the business. Also, stop moralizing about porn. It is the business of vice, just like tobacco, spying, military, drug dealing and contract killing... It just gets done and moral justice is inapplicable.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2015): Well why don't you ask the women in the porn industry?
They are happy to do it, then get their pay check at the end of the day.
Knowing some sap is going to pay above the odds to see it.
Think as long as their is girls Willing and men willing to pay, the porn industry ain't going anywhere.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (13 June 2015):
 The word of the day here is: Compatibility.
Women have dealt with sexism since the dawn of time. The degree of that sexism varies based on culture, race, country, economic class, and background.
The trick is to find someone with a similar compatibility to your desirable traits and companionship.
Men *are* visual, but in truth, there are men who don't fine cheap porn beauty desirable in any way. There are also men who view this vice as offensive to their code of ethics, but one finds those as being a more religious inclination.
What *is* universal is loneliness. Porn doesn't fill that. This isn't talked a lot in society, and even on Dearcupid, but porn doesn't come close to that longing for someone that *gets* them. I'm not just talking about guys, as the statistics are being reported that 1 in 6 "consumers" of porn are, in fact, female.
I loathe stereotypes. "Men are visual" is true, but there are guys who don't like porn, and there are guys who are sex addicts, and most guys aren't in that complete lack of control variant.
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