A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I have only had a few girlfriends in my life and the ones I have dump me all the time with no reason other than "I just want to be friends" or "it's not working out" or "I don't want a boyfriend". They say these things after we're already dating or in a relationship. What upsets me most is that they always try to turn it around on me and say I'm only after sex and maybe I'm not a nice guy after all. I am not only after sex, I am looking for a girlfriend and I know that no means no. I just get really frustrated when she stops me at the last minute or makes it impossible for us to be anywhere alone for a long time. Then, when I point out that part of being in a relationship is getting physical, she acts like it's just sex. No, that just makes us "friends" but I'm putting all the effort into the relationship and getting nothing out of it.In high school, I was never the type to talk to a girl I didn't know and get her number because that seemed pervy and creepy and my female friends always said they hated it when guys did that. I basically talked to some girl who was in my circle of acquaintances and I asked about her from other people or at least saw how she acted and treated people. We'd hang out in groups and I'd invite her (all three girlfriends) to go hang out alone (movie, pool, haunted cornfield or something) and they did that a few times but then they'd get mad after they let me kiss them in a car after I dropped them off or if we were in another room or outside (out of view of others). But when they said not to do that in front of people, they'd get mad if I took them somewhere private. It was shortly after kissing/making out a little that I'd get dumped because they just wanted to be friendsIn college, I did have a few hook ups that consisted of heavy making out and sometimes oral but it was the same, they dumped me or just avoided me after that and refused to tell me what I did wrong. Some stopped me right before I entered her and the worse I did was tell them to leave me a lone a little to "recover" and I was happy to just hang out in the next room around people but then they'd run away with their friends. I was NOT trying to pressure them, a lot of those girls came onto ME first, like really strong (talking for an hour, rubbing on me, telling me I was cute). I did have a few times where I had sex with girlfriends, but after dating a month or something. Some girls took forever to come to my apartment (and that happens now too) and I think it's a safety thing, like they want to know me well enough to trust me. That's understandable but at some point, when you've gone on enough dates and talked about half your life histories, you should know if you want a relationship long before that. And I mean they don't want to be physical in public but they don't want to be alone either. That's where I get told they want to be just friends or keep things where they are.I finally started telling them, "I don't want to be just friends. I want more, I made that clear. If you want to date me, I will be your friend but not otherwise" and that's when I'm told I only want sex. That's not ALL I want but yes, I do expect that after I'm dating a girl for awhile. They can't ALL be virgins until marriage and I KNOW that most of them weren't. Like I said, most of the time it's the GIRL who initiates physical contact or doesn't stop me when I start some and seems into it at least a little. I am not saying she's a sex toy, but I'm getting sick of being friend zoned!It's almost like I have to be an asshole not to have that happen and I don't want to be. I'm not a dangerous person, I'm just getting hurt left and right and all these mixed messages. I have good hygiene, I'm told I'm cute a lot, I exercise and eat right and women will walk up and flirt with me in places and then not want my number or else they don't call. I'm getting too old for this and while I understand dating for awhile before committing, I'd like to know what I did wrongAnd how to tell her "I don't want to be just friends" without being a jerk. Or how to say, "I'm trying to DATE you/get your number. Tell me now if you're just wanting the attention so we don't waste each other's time and hurt feelings" Of course, saying that makes me a jerk. I don't want to be one of those players but it seems like they're the only ones who get girl friends and then they treat them like dirt and the woman stays and claims he won't let her dump him. Lots of girls tell me all this. I'm serious. Please help me to notice what red flags I am missing that say "This girl just wants attention" "she just wants to be wined and dined" "This girl is just a tease". I can't expect every girl to fall for me, but it seems she comes on really strong and then rejects me or else I'm the one doing all the effort and she's the only one getting something out of it. Shouldn't it be equal give and take?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 September 2014): OK. I honestly can say that I am the only person who doesn't seem to think that you are "only" after sex. I was the girls on the receiving (or giving or "not giving) end of where YOU are for a LONG time. I DO think that you want a relationship (which means you are looking for love to a point) but I think that you are looking for a relationship because part of being in a relationship entails ... SEX!Yes, some guys get sex sooner than 1-3 months but most of the time they are pushy assholes (my experience) and the relationship (the dating and courting part especially) dies out sooner. And all I got was used. It took me until I was 35 (sad, but true) to figure that out. The longer I waited, the more pissed they got at me, and the faster I was ditched (then they dated some girl and she got all the goodies, so I assumed I moved too slow) What I DIDN'T realize was that I had been dodging bullets the whole time!I'm not saying that you're "bad" for wanting sex. It's like saying someone is bad for wanting food or sleep. I do think that you're trying to approach girls who are already semi-friends so they want to KEEP you in the friend zone. When I said "let's just be friends" it's a polite way to say "I like our relationship right where it is, let's keep it there" OR it's a polite way to say "I don't want to get physical with you" I had to lose a LOT of friends because I friend zoned someone. I lost the guys as friends (they, like YOU have NO ITENTION of being "friends") and I lost the mutual friends I had for either a) not giving the guy a chance or b) giving him a chance but then stringing him along and dumping him ... I couldn't win!I think what is happening is that you are approaching women who simply are not INTERESTED in dating you or possibly ANYONE for that matter. I don't know what end of the 22-25 age range you are in, but MOST people in that age group do NOT end up happily ever after with whomever they dated or screwed. I know you don't want to enter life with little relationship or sex experience, but take it slower!I understand where you're coming from, most of my guy friends thought they missed out for moving too slow. And that assholes are always the ones who got the girls. But the thing? Those guys were assholes. There's nothing wrong with being friend-zoned. I mean really! You gained a friend and lost nothing at all! I know that you're horny, but if you got off whenever you wanted, you would be a dick and I don't think you have the conscience for it. I want to say that nice guys don't finish last, it's just that nice guys accept NO for an answer and assholes don't. I think you are reading so much into it that you are not reading between the lines. It's not PERSONAL. If you JUST MET someone it's not a good idea to try to get her alone. If you want a private conversation, pull her aide IN VIEW of everyone else and talk. Then again, if you just met her, there's no REASON for a private conversation in the first place. You go from one extreme to the other. You hang out as "just friends" and get mad when she keeps you in the friend zone or doesn't realize you were interested. (Or, once she gets that, she promptly dumps you - I did that too! It was because I genuinely felt BAD that the guy got the impression I liked him and I didn't want to lead him on, THAT is why I stopped hanging out and talking to him!) Or, you want quick hook-ups or an immediate YES to a relationship (which entails some form of sex) so that you know you're not "wasting your time"Please, change your mindset!1. If you get "friend zoned" so what? YOU GAINED A FRIEND AND LOST NOTHING!2. It *is* sort of creepy to hit on girls you don't know with a "hey baby" but if you strike up a conversation in line or at a bus stop or something, it's OK to ask for her number and it's OK if she says no. Hey, it's just a chance, no big deal. 3. While you SHOULD take the lead a little and make your interests and intentions clear (so long as you're not saying, "I don't want to ever be just friends with you but I want to date you to have sex with you sometime. How are you doing? Want to hang out?"), you are probably coming across as desperate, or as others say, WAY too strongThere's no magic formula for how long you date a girl before you sleep together (some people wait until marriage to make out even). There's no magic formula on how many dates you go one before you're "official". If you took a girl out on dates for three months and had the sex talk (about when and how often) she would probably be scared away unless she was a total slut. What you CAN do is continue inviting your "group friends" girl friends on dates but MAKE IT KNOWN that you like her. Maybe listen to her talk and add your OWN stories. Ask her questions and DEAL if she answers in paragraphs. Hold the door for her, put your hand on the small of her back (NOT HER ASS) when you are walking late at night or something or if you are in public. That shows you LIKE her but you're not being a prick. If she moves away, that means she doesn't like it. If all else fails, AFTER the date, tell her you had a great time and you want to do it again. Maybe next time you're talking to her, teasingly ask her when you get to go on another date and see how she reacts. If she tells you she didn't realize it was a date, just move on. Continue being polite and friendly to her but back it off some.You let her take the lead in SEXUAL things. You can show attraction and interest without being crass and without touching her. OR with touching her but not entirely sexually. Leaning in close when you're talking, saying, "Come here" when she gives you a hug, that shows you want to kiss her. If she pulls away, she's not interested. If she comes toward you, it's on HER choice. I hope I gave decent advice.
A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (26 September 2014):
 Just get a Fleshlight... that is all you seem to really want.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (25 September 2014):
 Heh, I can see your issue plain as day here. You're not dating a woman to fall in love and get to know her. You're hoping for the magic formula, suffering through her telling her life story, and then getting pissy when she doesn't want to have sex with you.
You're acting like a girlfriend is entitled to open her legs to you at some predetermined time. THIS?!
"Then, when I point out that part of being in a relationship is getting physical, she acts like it's just sex. No, that just makes us "friends" but I'm putting all the effort into the relationship and getting nothing out of it."
You demand sex instead of seduce. You don't connect emotionally, and the only thing you measure as you "getting" something out of it is whether or not she gives you sex. So, being with her gives you no pleasure, and if she stops you, you get pissy and angry. Well yeah, she's going to dump you!
Women aren't prostitutes, and if you think that's all it should take to get sex, then maybe you should pay money to see escorts. Then you will get sex after paying money, won't have to worry about getting to know a girl (you got pissed that you had to wait A WHOLE MONTH to have sex with a girl?) Sorry, but a first date in a haunted cornfield where you throw a fit and tell her to get away from you because she stopped you sounds "date rapist" to me, to be honest.
Face it - you DO only want sex. You've made it clear in your post that if you don't get to stick in your penis, then you're not getting anything out of it.
This whole speech: "I don't want to be just friends. I want more, I made that clear. If you want to date me, I will be your friend but not otherwise". She is NOT A PROSTITUTE! The "I want more" meaning you want sex?? Good god. THis means that everything she does or says is boring to you and you can't wait until she shuts up and opens her legs. That's you using her. YOu're not seducing her. You're not looking to connect emotionally with her.
The worst thing you said was this "That's understandable but at some point, when you've gone on enough dates and talked about half your life histories," as if being with the girl is secondary to pumping semen into her. You're getting shot down because girls can smell a user a mile away. They're smart by going slow (and a MONTH is NOT going slow...they're smarter to get you waiting 3 months or so), because a guy who is only using a woman for sex will tend to get impatient and pissy and move on.
You are the reason it's good for a woman to keep things slow. You said something else here:
"I did have a few times where I had sex with girlfriends, but after dating a month or something."
You have multiple girlfriends? What made them leave? I can tell you right away - once you got INTO their bed, you thought that you did everything, and now every time you saw them, they had to put out. Sorry, but girlfriends aren't prostitutes you're entitled to bang once you've suffered through their personality enough.
You have red flag written all over you, unfortunately. You need to change how you see women...and if you don't like women and can't be bothered with an actual relationship, then see escorts. Then you get sex without the relationship, which is what you want anyway.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (25 September 2014):
 Maybe I am reading too much between the lines , and spinning a whole tale out of a short post ( which is the risk with any post ) but, FWIW , I can see what you are doing wrong, and why the girls would be turned off. You are doing ALL wrong, my friend. You come off as both clumsy and a horndog at the same time. ( And entitled too ). BUT, without having the alpha-male self-confidence ( or, the gift of being a jerk, but a charismatic one ). That's the unassertive vibe, perhaps , that Janniepeg picked from your post- coupled, though, with a naive smugness , like " hey, I have got no time to lose with you ! Make up your mind right now ": Which may be understandable , from your point of view, but, if you are an average Joe with no particular title to make women go wild about you, may come off as BOTH anxious and arrogant.
So, basically, you are unwilling and unable to court and romance a girl properly, to show her a PERSONAL interest, to ask her out normally, because you think it's creepy. Then, you just basically ask her to hang out in a group, which would show a friendly, non - romantic interest- then you try to isolate her from the group for a kiss , a fondle , or a grope... she may give in out of her own awkwardness,or of being caught in the moment, but she gets the feeling you are not really interested and you are only looking for " a " girl to paw, not for HER. Obviously she is not into that. If she is looking for a relationship , she will want to SEE that you are in one before becoming ( more ) intimate. And if she is only after a make out session... you will have inevitably to accept that this will happen when you BOTH are in the mood for that- which , it may be the next day , the next week, or never again.
Plus, you are quick to demand sexual intimacy as a God- given right. Yes, being physical is part of a relationship, but not because you say so, or because there's a rule that says after one month she has to put out. It will happen if and when she feels comfortable with you, she is sure that she likes you and you like her, etc... when she is good and ready. That may happen after two hours from meeting ( but , that would be some drunken hook up, most probably ) or.. when she feels good and ready. When she knows ahe is into you , and she can TRUST you are into her. Which, may happen within a month, or also not. If in a month , all you have done is hanging out with her AND friends , say, once a week, with you acting impersonal and unromantic, and just trying to cop a feel out of her at the first occasion, yeah well. No wonder you get what you get. She would have spent only a few hours with you without establishing any emotional connection or intimacy, but then you expect her to give you something sexual " because it's about time " or " because you wined and dined her " or " you invested time on her ".
So ? Every investor knows they invest at their own risk. You aren't owed anything, and if you really can't spare the time and effort to make her LIKE you as a person, that's your right, I suppose, but then don't try to date, stick to ONS and quick hook ups.
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A
female
reader, jls022  +, writes (25 September 2014):
"I know that no means no. I just get really frustrated when she stops me at the last minute"
This makes it sound like you know that no means no, but you get pissy about it when she doesn't want to go all the way. Pointing out that sex is part of a relationship also gives that vibe - as if as soon as you are in a relationship she should be willing to go when you are. Personally, I'd run a mile from someone like that.
You sound like you are coming on WAY too strong. Trying to get girls alone before they are ready, too much affection in public, expecting sex when you feel you've dated for long enough and saying they are 'teasing' you if they still want to wait. To be honest, it does sound like your main focus is sex. I mean telling a girl to leave you alone for a while after she's said she doesn't want sex?! I know you have your reasons but telling her to leave after she doesn't put out? Do you not see why these girls think you are only after one thing?
Girls want someone who likes them for THEM, not for the sex they feel they are 'owed' after a certain number of dates. Stop making it all about that and be happy to spend time with the girl, in groups at first if that's what she wants. And most of all, stop trying to rush it. If girls keep stopping you just before you have sex, then they have already gone further than they wanted to. As another poster said, let them take the lead and accept that it is likely to be slower than you'd like.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (25 September 2014):
 You don't seem assertive. Don't listen to what your female friends tell you. Getting a number and talking to a girl is the only way to ask a girl out. I don't get why you have to invite a girl and then three of her friends. If you are interested in a girl, single her out. Never let people tell you what to do. You have to make up your own mind and take charge. I think girls lose interest because they can see you as a pushover and that's not attractive. Girls at first will run a lot of shit tests to see how dominant you are. When you sort of obey them and try to avoid mistakes in order to please them, it is like you failed their tests.
Your casual hookups didn't work because it's only casual. You can't really expect anything to come out of it. There are girls who are okay with this but most want to know what your intentions are. The girls that jumped onto you were lonely and wanted affection, then didn't feel right because for some reason. Maybe they were used to guys groping them right away, and when you waited they thought you weren't that interested.
Just being nice, good hygiene and having interests do not automatically land you a girlfriend and no one owes you a relationship. I am trying to find what you did wrong but I really couldn't. You don't have to be a jerk but you need to read between the lines and focus on attraction first. Confidence is also important. It shows you that you know what to do, who to go for, and how to get it. Your experience just told me you were so concerned with doing things right, and that's boring. You got to have your own style.
The girls need to grow up too. They need to see sex as what it is and not as a bargain (giving in to get something) or weapon (withholding). Mature women know that sex is intimacy and connection. The battle of the sexes end when men have courage to keep going and women having the faith that men have feelings too. It's about understanding each other and bridging the gaps of differences.
Do not be frustrated with girls because both of the sexes have a lot to learn. You will be glad that in 10 years you won't be having much less of these issues.
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A
female
reader, SeaGreen +, writes (25 September 2014):
 By the sounds of your post you are pressuring women into having sex with you and that is what is sending them running. Listen to what they are saying!
I know some women who refuse to have sex with a man until they dated him for at least 3 months. Others like myself will not have sex with a man until they are in a committed relationship with him.
I think the problem is your attitude towards women and sex.
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A
male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (24 September 2014):
 No, It is never equal give and take. You are just a slow learner in the realm of romance and are coming on way too strong from what you described. Take it much slower next time and allow the female to take the lead role in love making. You sound a bit anxious to me. Deep breath,then another. Girls take it slow and so should you, be gentle and patient not hot and bothered.
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