A
female
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:Hello aunts and uncles. I am looking for some advice please because I'm so confused at the moment.Basically, I had been with my now ex boyfriend for over 5 years. We have always had our own lives and interests outside of the relationship, but over the last year or two I have felt as though the relationship had stalled a bit as we were still only seeing each other roughly twice a week. His work schedule is very busy, but he does well and doesn't need the money yet works every hour available to him even if that meant not seeing me for days at a time.This started to bother me, and over the last year I've started trying to bring it up with him and also find out what he thought about the future as we had never really discussed it. The first time I asked him, he said he'd be ready for marriage and kids in 10-15 years, and he seemed genuinely shocked when I explained that, at 29 years old, I didn't have that much time to wait. I asked him to think about it, and he said he would but never brought it up again.A couple of months later, I broached it again and he said he definitely wanted marriage and kids but had no idea when as it's not something he thinks about a lot. Again, I asked him to try to think about it as I'm starting to worry we want different things, and he said ok.Fast forward to just before Christmas, and we had an argument about him telling me he had stayed in the previous night, yet I later found out he had been out clubbing. I couldn't care less that he'd gone out (I was busy myself so it's not like we had plans or anything) but I was upset that he'd lied. When I asked him why, he said he didn't know and thought maybe I wouldn't like it although admitted I had done nothing to make him think that. At that moment, as well as worrying that there was more to the story and that's why he lied, I also felt like I was dealing with a teenager who thought sneaking out was better than talking about it first and risking it being a problem. It just seems so immature to me, and it again led me to think about the future and whether he was anywhere near the stage of life where he wanted to commit to me properly.I broached it again and got various answers in the space of an hour or so - maybe in 5 years; definitely at some point before I'm too old for kids; he doesn't want to be too old or too young to be a dad so somewhere in the middle of those two points; he feels like we have lots of time to work it out; he doesn't have a crystal ball so there's no point in planning anything; he wants us to live together before he will even discuss the future.... The list goes on.I ended up being more confused than ever, and after finding out he'd lied about a few other silly things, I told him I wanted us to take some time apart so I could sort my head out.This was 2 weeks ago, and he's since been back in touch begging me for another chance. I've never seen him like this - he's devastated and looks tired and like he's lost a bit of weight. He said I'm his best friend and he loves me more than anything and is sorry for messing up, although he is still making a few excuses for his behaviour at times. He wants us to start fresh and said he'll make a proper commitment to me. The problem is, I just don't know if he means it, or if he just thinks he does because he doesn't want to lose me.I love him and really miss him, but I'm scared that if I give him another chance I will still be in the same position in a couple of years time. He wants me to move in which is a start, but I still have no idea how he sees the future or when he might be ready for marriage and kids. I understand that living together is a good idea before all of that, but in this case I think he might just be buying time as he's still not saying anything other than 'I definitely want those things with you one day'.In addition are the trust issues, as I am now questioning everything he has told me about going out in the past. I would have trusted him with my life before and never bothered if he went out, but now I don't know if I believe him when he tells me where he was/what he did.I'm torn between wanting to believe him and worrying that I'm being silly to think things will change this time. Plus, I guess I never dreamed that the guy I was with would need to get a shock before he realised he wanted to be with me. I always thought that should be a given.What do you think? Thanks in advance.
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female
reader, Sincerely Yours  +, writes (11 January 2015):
 It sounded as if he got threatened by the mention of settling for the rest of his life. It seems but can't be sure - as though he went out in a fit of rebellion to the thought of "losing his freedom." He may have even been testing himself - splurging and binging to feel out his willingness to marry you. Although i hope this is not it.
I do advise you to be very careful. I had an aunt who was married to a man for 9 years. She wanted kids and every time they talked about it, he had a new excuse ... "Let's wait till I'm out of school, finish this degree, but a house, save this much money..." Etc etc. every time they reached one goal point, he set a new one. Then lies started happening .. He was hiding his phone and covering truths. Finally they were divorced and he was with a new woman very shortly thereafter. By the time it all ended, she was mid thirties, past her child bearing prime. She had wasted her prime years and gotten nothing because he was too selfish to admit that would never want kids.
My heart cries for her. I hope for you that you don't get strung along to a point of no return. If he has promises of a future, he better be serious and put it off NO MORE.
I wish I could know for you if he is really serious and ready. You sound intelligent - you will be the best judge of your situation
~SY
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 January 2015): I think wiseowls response is appauling. I bet he's a male who himself has an insecure girlfriend. The response is about their anger towards a partner who is controlling and who demands to know their whereabouts.
OP i think for you to move on and be with this guy you need to find out why he lied and dont put up with any silly excuses of him blaming you if he frequently goes out and you have no issue with this.
Also if you do go back to him you need to speak with him first and talk of how its great that hes making this first step but that you need to know that marriage and children is a possibility if the living together works out. You need to be make sure your both on the same page before getting back together.
Really hope this works out for you.
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A
female
reader, MSA +, writes (11 January 2015):
 Although I think you have a very good perspective of a relationship, I honestly believe that it's not going to move forward the way you'd wish for it to.Being able to be in a relationship, yet trusting each other enough to go out seperately, and maintaining this life style for 5 years is rather commendable. Not many girls allow their men the freedom to do that. I would see it as, he should WANT to spend more time together and possibly move in together after 5 years. After all these years you both should naturally be closer and want to share more of each other's lives. Yet, it appears he's content with just seeing you for 2 days per week. With this type of mentality, he will never want to marry, have kids, and live together.Have you asked yourself if you're ready to give up the night life and settle down?I think you really need to re-evaluate this relationship. He clearly wants to continue living the single life with the convenience of having a girlfriend 2 days per week. What about you? If you seriously want marriage and children, then he's not able to provide, do you want to stay and wait or move on without him?My first boyfriend went to college in the mornings, part time job in the afternoons, and another part time in the evenings til 11pm, yet he still drove to my house, sat in the kitchen to have dinner with me before he went home. He did that every night. If your boyfriend really wanted to spend more than 2 days a week with you, he will, nothing will stop him.
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (10 January 2015):
 Just to expand a little..... WHY do you girls put up with (AND, put out for) these guys who enjoy you for sexual escapades... but who say to you.... "Oh, yes, I really like you ... and want to continue to see you (read: "enjoy having $ex with you...").. and the rest of their "blah, blah, blah...." about how they are SURE that they want to marry you... "....sometime in the future.... but just NOT NOW..."....
Aren't you able to see what this really is????? It's... I get to have a sexual partner (a guy's Holy Grail).... whilest YOU don't "get" a darn thing from the "relationship"... EXCEPT the hope that he is going to make a life with you... and YOU are the one who gets left out when he finds that OTHER Hottie, who strikes his fancy even more than you do.
I would LOVE to NEVER see another submittal from a woman who is living this semi-, demi, not-quite lie that we guys put on you girls to get you to keep putting out, whilest WE (guys) go about looking for still-hotter/sluttier girls to be our sex toys....
Good luck to all of you....
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2015): 'I think it might be time for you to move on. In five years he never thought to even move in with you until you left him, and he has no definite plans for being with you. You want children and have a much more pressing time limit than he does, you should stay single for a bit then start dating men with the same priorities as you.'What she said highlights all the important points it deserves to be reiterated.I'd just like to emphasise that he is not going to be a changed man. Maybe for a week or so but fundamentally he won't change for you since presumably he doesn't see what he did as immature (or else he wouldn't have done it). Don't waste more time with him when there are other men out there who you could fall in love with who would give you the world on a platter. You made a good call to end it but ofcourse you still love him so you are going to second guess yourself whenever you miss him. Best thing to do is to have as little contact with him as possible. You'll move on quicker that way.Good luck and don't second guess your wise choice ;-)
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (10 January 2015):
If he sez he'll be ready for marriage "... in 10-15 years"
AND if your schedule is such that you'd like to have a marriage much sooner than that....
Then tell him: "Hunchy Bunchy, if you want to be married to me, sometime, then contact me in 9 - 14 years and see if I'm available. I may not be... as we have different schedules, evidently...."
Then, dump this creep and get on with your life. IF'n you find a nice guy who wants to marry you and start a family and life together... then go for it....
IF you want to hold out for this non-committal creep, then wait until 2024 and sit by your phone and see if he calls...
Don't put up with a guy who uses these "... maybe, sometime in the future, .... " bullshit lines to keep getting YOU to put out for him... whilest he does NOT A DAMN THING to accomodate YOU!!!!!
Good luck....
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2015): Hi I am the OP. WiseOwlE clearly you have watched too many soap operas the way you have spun that little tale without knowing me at all.
As it happens, my boyfriend goes out every Saturday night clubbing with his mates, and I go out clubbing with mine every few weeks too (to a different place I might add). The other weeks I might go to the cinema or for a meal with my friends, but Saturdays are 'going out with friends' nights every week. I found out he had lied because I met his friend at the shops a couple of days later and he was joking about how drunk my boyfriend was. When I asked him about it, he got mad at his friend for mentioning it and has not spoken to him since, which in my opinion is again childish because he is not taking responsibility for the fact that he is the one who told me, when I asked him 'so what did you end up doing last night?', that he had went to bed early because he was feeling ill.
I know that some women don't let their boyfriends do anything, but that is certainly not me. Do you think that type of woman would have stayed 5 years with a musician they only see a couple of times a week?! Because I don't. The way you have hung, drawn and quartered me for being a snooping, controlling girlfriend because I expect an honest answer to a simple question is both unhelpful and unfair.
It is precisely because I have never stopped him doing what he wants that the lying worries me - it makes me think it must be something really bad.
I also resent the fact you think I lie to him because 'everyone does'. I have told white lies about things like surprise parties and how much a top or something cost of course, but I have always been completely honest about my whereabouts because I have nothing to hide. Your post seems to focus on the fact that 'women' always complain about being lied to but, according to you, tell bigger lies themselves! What has a sweeping generalisation such as that got to do with my situation?! I don't believe I am out of line for being upset that he lied to my face. It might not be a huge lie no, but it's not the first time and does make me question his honesty in general. And I think I would be ridiculous not to. I'm sorry but 'it's ok honey, everyone lies so just you carry on' is not an option for me. I expect way more than that from my partner even if you don't.
Oh and for the record, I don't believe he 'picked up a slut' as you so eloquently put it. I was questioning why he lied yes, but it was more about whether he has the maturity for the type of commitment I am looking for.
Now in terms of you saying he doesn't see me as his future wife, yes that is exactly what I am wondering. I know it is my choice to leave, which is exactly what I did. My question was in regards to the promises he has now made me in trying to win me back. One of which is that he does want to marry me.
I am willing to work on the trust, and I believe him when he says he loves me, but I don't want to go back to someone who will make an effort at first then in 2/3 months things drift back to the way they have been with him living like a single man with no-one to consider but himself.
I thank you and all of the other posters for taking the time to reply to me, but you might want to consider that things are not always black and white. You have spent a long time creating an elaborate back story in which I'm the one who deserves to be lied to because I'm the supposedly typical insecure woman, instead of actually addressing my question. I am usually very impressed with the advice on this site, but unfortunately I cannot say the same today.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2015): Oh, I forgot to warn you about "taking a break."
What taking a break means to a woman; may be two different things to a man.
If you want to give him an ultimatum, you should make it direct, face-to-face. Don't dilly-dally with using passive-aggressive tactics like "taking breaks;" then tracking his every move to see what he did with his time. That's ridiculous. Time-outs are for bratty-children!
If my boyfriend ever tells me he wants to take a break?
Great! It's been nice knowing you. Don't let the door hit you in the ass. I don't sit around waiting for decisions about how people feel about me. Adults have a better way of getting a point across.
It's called communication.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2015): We get a lot of posts on DC regarding "lying." I'm going to address this first, then I will give you some advice regarding the other issues you've presented.
The majority of our posts come from females. The greatest violation of their trust is catching their husband, girlfriend, or boyfriend in a lie. You can live until you're over 100 years old, and will not find another sane and mentally competent person on this planet that hasn't lied. You've lied yourself on a number of occasions, and wouldn't want to be tried and convicted for it. The posts are naturally going to be one-sided; because the author of the post is the one who has the issue about the lie. Before you condemn someone indefinitely for betrayal, consider how serious the lie is, and how it adversely affects the relationship. Did it devastate you, or just piss you off for the um-teenth time?
In general, is he sweet, thoughtful, caring, trustworthy, affectionate, and loyal? Great in the sack, and gives you orgasms? He remembers special occasions. Gives you gifts and flowers for no special reason? Your parents love him?
He went out clubbing. He neglected to tell you. Oh, you wouldn't have minded you say? The hell you wouldn't. That is a lie. Should he have asked for permission first?
Now I challenge you to go back and look at the number of lies you've yourself told, that he has yet to discover the truth about. You got away scot-free! He probably knows, but made no big deal about it. He may have given you the business when he did catch you; but you're still there, so you must have been forgiven.
Don't expect WiseOwlE to be foolish enough to think women are always the victim of lies, but they never tell any. Not just little white lies, I mean whoppers! They may be tiny "white lies." But a lie, is a lie! Like small change, they add up.
The size and magnitude of a lie, is often exaggerated when we are the recipient. Our own lies always seem smaller in comparison. Why is that?
If you've lied to him, it doesn't make you better than he is, only because he hasn't confronted you about what you lied about. The fact he never discovered the truth you hid; or hasn't often caught you in a lie, just makes you a "better liar." How many times have you lied to him and got away with it? (This is a rhetorical question.)
Now tell me, which is worse?
The significance of a lie is determined by the damage it does. All lies are toxic to trust. Trust also has to be durable and flexible. If it's too rigid, no one can live-up to it. Humans are fallible creatures. We don't always like to admit when we screw-up. We sure don't enjoy catching hell for it!
Side note: Cheaters, you deserve hell; so this isn't about assh*les like you!!!
How did you happen to come by the information that he was out clubbing? A little bird told you, or did you go snooping on him?
In his defense, he felt like a little escape to freedom and independence. Sometimes a guy likes to have fun without being under the microscope; and constantly reinforcing the fact he can be a grown-man, trusted, and can do things alone without cheating. Did you forget? At the moment; you're neither married, nor even engaged! Clubbing alone is not a Cardinal sin. There is no solid evidence he picked up a slut. He just wanted to see what being single and alone felt like just once in five years. He just may be considering the future, and wanted to get this out of his system. He probably didn't want to take it before the Board of Directors for approval.
I am an adult. I don't ask my boyfriend's permission to do anything. I just do it. As long as it causes him no harm, inconvenience, or embarrassment. He doesn't ask my permission either. He'll happen to mention he did this or that, and I'm not phased by it. I don't presume it is guaranteed he went out and had sex with somebody else; because I wasn't there to keep an eye on him. I want him to feel free, but loved all at the same time. I want him to feel and appreciate the value of my trust. He trusts me implicitly, and says so. I treasure hearing that, and I honor his confidence in me. It keeps a little angel on my shoulder, and that's all it takes.
He's a good-looking guy, makes big bucks; but I can't keep him in a cage. I want him of his own free-will, or not at all. I've had a successful 28-year relationship before. I'm secure. With, or without him. I've got faults too. I'm not busy setting traps to catch him in a lie. If we're together for any extended period, I expect lies between us. It's all part of being human. I don't lollygag about cheating. If I have solid evidence it happened, it's a deal-breaker. No drama, no fuss! Suspicions don't pass for evidence!
Now, you caught him in a lie about going out, and you forced a confession out of him. You're not satisfied with that. Now you want to convict him for "possibly" doing more?
I might add you have no evidence to presume he did more; but you're going to use your "suspicions" against him. Slowly blowing this incident out of proportion. Which he predicted, and now your actions confirm it. If you had evidence he cheated, marriage certainly wouldn't be a topic under consideration. If you did...what's wrong with you?
Now about five years into a relationship, and seeing no signs of a walk down the isle. You want a proposal, and you're hinting with the force of a hurricane. Yet, he isn't the least moved by your concerns whether the relationship is leading to a higher-level. To culminate in marriage and a family.
Several factors to consider. You said you hardly see each other but a couple of times a week, and this has gone on for five years. You have never lived together. He has suggested in a compromise; that he'd like a trial cohabitation period to solidify the relationship, and see if the commitment will lead to what you want. You're winding your biological clock, watching the calendar, and patting your foot with your arms folded. He hasn't put a ring on it. You want kids before you're too old.
Here's my take. You won't like it. You'll have to let it sink-in before it makes any sense to you.
He loves having a long-term girlfriend. Marriage seems very final, and if a man hasn't considered marriage to a woman he has been with as long as he has; he's not considering marriage at all. Maybe in the distant future, but he can't quite visualize the bride being you. He isn't sure yet about giving up his freedom to become a dad; when he can't even go out to club and get in his last few days of sensing total freedom. He has weighed this in his mind more often than you know, but he plans to do it when he can visualize you in his future. He is independently considering his own evaluation of the quality of the relationship. Women aren't the only ones who get to do that. It takes a minimum of two to create a relationship. Both parties have equal say. Both deal with the others, habits, quirks, and idiosyncrasies.
It's not just how long you're together, it's how you get along. Speaking from experience here.
Like most guys, he fears that level of commitment, he's allergic to the restrictions marriage imposes; and unsure if he can endure it with you. He's gotten all the milk he wanted, without buying the cow. Now come all the threats of making it legal by contract.
Some women are aces at being girlfriends. They don't all measure-up to wife and mother material; even if they think so themselves. You apparently think he's husband material; in spite of his lying?
You have options. You can move-in with him and set your own deadline. Learn what living with him is like. Determine if his habits are tolerable enough; and if he shows the right attributes and patience to be a father. Watch how he adapts to domestic life. Coming home with you there every night. You may find a reason yourself to put marriage on hold, before it's all over with.
Here's what I'm getting at. Right now you feel his credibility is questionable. Why would you want to marry anyone under questionable-conditions? Shouldn't you make sure they are totally on the up-and-up first? If he has dragged his feet for five years, how long before you throw in the towel, and say this is where I'm getting off? That's your choice you know?
Sit down together and make YOUR final "proposal." You can mutually agree on a time-table to live together, seriously consider marriage and a family, and offer him your final ultimatum. Don't be flimsy with your deadline. Be certain.
You don't even have to verbalize a time-period. You can set it for yourself. You don't need his permission.
Let him know you're not waiting for the idea of marriage to drive itself to consideration at some moment in the far-off distant future; while you watch your hair turn gray. That is not an option on the table; and if he's not serious you will just pack and leave. You're not going to sit around wasting your time, aging, only for him to decide he doesn't want to marry you anyway. The end-result being he'll go find himself a younger female. No way!!!
You've invested five years, and you don't yet see your reward in dividends. Stop leaving it entirely at his discretion. It's your life too. If you believe he's a liar and not to be trusted, that should be a deal-breaker.
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A
female
reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (10 January 2015):
 Take some time off and both of you think about what your priorities are. Taking him back right now may seem like the less painful option...obviously you're missing him and moving in together might make you happy BUT, how viable would this really be in the long run? Is he promising you the sun, moon and the stars just because he's scared of losing you? Because if that's the reason then it'll never work out because sooner or later he'll end up resenting you. Both of you want different things and opinions like that don't change overnight. He's most certainly buying time; he cant stand the thought of losing you for now and its more like, "lets just get back and we'll see where it goes from here". He's not thinking this all the way through, he's just taking one day at a time and for now he's just shocked at losing you and is saying and doing everything that he can just to get you back.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2015): I think it might be time for you to move on. In five years he never thought to even move in with you until you left him, and he has no definite plans for being with you. You want children and have a much more pressing time limit than he does, you should stay single for a bit then start dating men with the same priorities as you.
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A
female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (10 January 2015):
 I've seen this before. I think your boyfriend is 27. To be with each other means different things to you two because you are at different stages. He thinks because he spares two days a week with you he's committed while you are ready to get married. I won't say things like he's stalling time or he wants to get married, just not to you. At my son's school or his activity club I see a lot of dads in their 40's with grey hair. I feel out of place, like I had my son too young and was unprepared while they are established in their career and living comfortably. The moms are not too much younger either. Getting pregnant at 40 is stretching it, but nowadays it's not uncommon anymore.
You have the right to be with a guy more ready, in terms of financially and emotionally. If you have a good relationship and can't live without each other, I would take the risk of not being able to have my own child, adopt if possible later. It seems that in this relationship you are not satisfied. He feels controlled and pressured. You can't make someone want things such as marriage and kids but you can make yourself decide for your own future. In your situation it doesn't seem like there is enough to keep you together.
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