A
male
age
41-50,
*mart_Idiot
writes:Hi, I hope someone can help me. Like many other 'askers' on this site, I have trouble accepting my wife's sexual past (though I am truly getting better and better). I am in the process of starting therapy again to help me get through these intense and disruptive thoughts/feelings. In a nutshell, whenever I think of my wife having sex with other men (before I entered her life), my imagination conjures unpleasant images. The images drive into my mind, and park there, staying for at least a few days. They are hell. Recently some other unpleasant thing is occurring. When I am at my in-laws house I think about my wife being intimate with other men inside that house. I wonder if I sleep on a bed that she was intimate with somebody on, then wonder if my girls sleep on a bed that my wife had sex with a boyfriend on. And now the rooms themselves; 'What happened in here?' I wonder. Recently I saw an old photo of my wife with her teenage friends (girls and boys) at my in-laws house horse-playing (not sexual at all), but I can take that picture, imagine that day and have the unpleasant thoughts of her and one of those boys having sex there that evening. You get the picture (no pun intended)? My wife was not promiscuous by any means. I met her when she was thirty, and apparently she had had five or six sexual relationships, quite a low number for being raised in a modern family without any religious hang-ups.I have made alot of progress on acceptance of her past. I laugh at myself now for not grasping that thirty-year-old virgins are virtually impossible today (unless you're Steve Carrell). I have also realized that her first boyfriends were people she grew up closely with, so her early sexual experimentation was with people she knew and was thus comfortable with. Finally I simply think about how much she loves me, has sacrificed to be with me, and how well she treats me now. Also honoring the truth that had she stayed with any of these men, my three daughters wouldn't even exist (that is a very terrible thought). And other rational thoughts as well. These help to balance my perspective and check any judgmental inclinations.I will wrap this up now by circling back to what is really killing me - those mental images, and the physical triggers (i.e. old photos, the beds, in-law's house, innocent remarks by her sister or old friends, etc.). Any tricks or tips would be appreciated.One other annoying reality is that I may have to see her old boyfriends down the road. SHe is from a small town and everyone knew everyone. A few months ago when there was a carnival in town I purposefully did not go out with her because of the possiblity of bumping into one of these guys. We also had a little fight a few months back when I saw that she was facebook friends with one of them. Sorry, but I think it is wrong and inappropriate that her old boyfriend facebook friended her. She even made a remark taking his side (and this guy cheated on her in the past for crying out loud!) Though in her mind she doesn't really count him as a former boyfriend - just kind of an honest mistake.Help me agony aunts! Please.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (17 January 2013): I and my husband are facebook friends with our ex's. It's just not a big deal if there's no lingering feelings and you trust your spouse. you are entitled to your opinion that it's wrong to be facebook friends with an ex, and if so then you should not be FB friends with them. That's fine. But your wife has a right to her own opinion too. it's her facebook page not yours, so stop looking at it if you can't stand the sight of her ex on her FB friends list.I think you're being distracted by your hang-up about her FB friends and should instead pour that energy and focus into getting the psychiatric therapy you need to overcome your obsessive, irrational, anxiety-provoking thoughts before those thoughts get out of control and start driving your behavior destructively.
A
male
reader, Yos  +, writes (16 January 2013):
 Well it's not about facebook per se, but about friends in general.
There are a couple of female friends in my life that i have had sex with, although it was brief and not a good idea. But we remain good friends, and nothing more. I want to remain friends with them.
Likewise there's a few men like that in her life.
I'd be a hypocrite to agree to the first without the second.
There's also a side that's healthy that says: 'don't be too heavy about this, put your insecurities to one side and recognise that friendship can be more important'.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (16 January 2013):
 OP, I think perhaps you should focus more on the big picture ( your RJ ) and less on the details ( Facebook and the debate about whether it is appropriate or not to Facebook-friend your exes. Sort of pointless, as you say yourself, it's about 50/50, some feel it is , some do not . Opinions.).
When I say that if she should stop using Facebook ,you'd surely would start obsessing about something else, apparently I could be not so far off the mark. The result just came out of a study carried out by the researchers of the Department of Clinical and Experimental Medicine at the University of Pisa . According to them, irrational,obsessive jealousy, ( dangerous because often it may degenerate in stalking or aggressiive behaviours ), is connected to an imbalance in a specific area of the brain. The neural roots of irrational, obsessive jealousy would be located in the ventromedial frontal cortex, an area that supervises complex cognitive and emotional processes.
So, if your ventromedial frontal cortex is out of whack, you stop being jealous of Facebook... and you start being jealous of Twitter. Or anything else.
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A
male
reader, Smart_Idiot +, writes (15 January 2013):
Smart_Idiot is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYos, how can you be comfortable with your girlfriend haveing exes as facebook friends? Honestly, I would like to know. I wish I could be as unphased.
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male
reader, Yos +, writes (14 January 2013):
"You believe it is abnormal for myself, or others, to be uncomfortable with their spouses having exes for facebook friends?"
No it's not abnormal, it's quite normal.
I see the issue as: how uncomfortable is it for you, versus how important is that friendship. In my situation my gf is friends with a couple of her exes, but these are the 'important' ones. Likewise i'm friends with a couple of mine.
Having said that, if one of those exes was to start acting inappropriately then that's a different issue. There's a lot of trust involved here. This actually happened in my case and I was very clear that I was uncomfortable with that friendship continuing since he was clearly angling for her.
Each couple needs to come to their own compromise with this one I believe.
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male
reader, Smart_Idiot +, writes (13 January 2013):
Smart_Idiot is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI have ex girlfriends, just as she has ex boyfriends. I am not FB friends with any of my ex girlfriends (and I would never do that for a few reasons. Namely, the past belongs in the past, if I did that I could cause discomfort for my exes is their current relationships, and further there is really nothing at all to be gained from such a communication. It would be out of place for me to FB friend request one of them. But anyways, how am I holding a double standard on this facebook issue (since I am not FB friends with my exes)? You believe it is abnormal for myself, or others, to be uncomfortable with their spouses having exes for facebook friends? I do not think of it as anything other than inappropriate, and therefore uncomfortable. My wife would never cheat on me. She is not the type. She loves me, and moreover she loves our kids. I have seen many questions and responses on other threads related to facebbok friends and exes. I notice that many of my friends are not facebook friends with their exes. Some are. It's about 50-50.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2013): I hit send too soon. I meant to say as for the FB issue. For now you have sort of forfeited all right to expect her not to do this inappropriate thing when you have been holding double standards over her. It is not her job not to trigger you if what she is doing is not commonly viewed as egregious but only by you. If she gives in on this as your insecurity grows you may demand she give up any and all male friends no matter now innocent. It is a slippery slope. Resolve your double standards which you are holding then you have a stronger position to ask her to unfriend her ex on FB.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2013): OP, I am the most recent female anon you addresses. Yes I do have some experience win anxiety disorders. I have a loved one who has suffered from it all her adult life. I have watched helplessly as over the course of the last 17 years it got worse and worse, more and more triggers, increaeingly wild thoughts which she cognitively *knew* were irrational but couldnt stop nevertheless. more and more intense anguish eating into her life and ability to function in daily life, with numerous on again off again attempts at psychiatric treatment which she would not stick with long term becauee she felt she didnt "need" it.
Finally it all culminated in a suicide attempt on Christmas eve. She is physically stable thank God. Someone saw her and called 911 before it was too late. She is now hospitalized in the mental hospital for observation.
It began over 17 years ago with intrusive obsessive thoughts centered around a topic of insecurity. Unsuccessfully treated it will get worse. She does not have a romantic relationship as all her partners could not cope and were driven away. Even many of her friends gave up and left her side. It is sad. As of last year she cannot hold down a job anymore because she cannot concentrate on anything for long other than her obsessive thoughts. I just came back from the psychiatric hospital last night where I have been visiting her every day since Xmas eve. I shouldn't say this is final she is still in denial of her need for psychiatric treatment or its effecacy. She might attempt suicide again as we are all on suicide watch for the next several months no matter her claims of feelimg ok now.
You need to get medical help that's all I can say. You are hurting not just yourself but your wife. If your hurt her long enough she may lose her love for you and leave you. If your marriage dissolves you will be hurting your kids.
As for the FB issue
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A
female
reader, person12345 +, writes (13 January 2013):
 Just saw your follow-up, but yes you absolutely will find something else to obsess about without the exes. That's how these disorders work. You are not learning how to cope with her past, you are learning how to cope with obsessive thoughts. This can be applied to all future obsessions too and can help you nip them in the bud.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (13 January 2013):
Like I said, you've got to see a psychiatrist. These kinds of things, anxiety disorders and OCD, are almost impossible to overcome on your own. I know people who have suffered for many, many years because they are convinced that mental issues should be simply "thought away." You can no more think it away than you can think away a dislocated shoulder. Yes there are some people who can get someone to pop their shoulder back in just like there are some people who can fight RJ on their own, but it's a much longer and harder road than just getting some help. It doesn't make you weak, it makes you stronger because you aren't letting your problems take over your life, you're fighting back. That's being strong.
Everyone with an anxiety disorder or mental compulsion thinks theirs is the different one that can either be justified into continuing to exist or that is really not a big deal, but these problems can and will only get worse without treatment. Many health insurance plans cover psychiatric care with a diagnosis, so call the number on the back of your card and look around for someone.
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male
reader, Smart_Idiot +, writes (13 January 2013):
Smart_Idiot is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCindyCares, I have sought treatment so that is good. You say I would find something else to obsess about if she stopped contacting her exes. I don't think so necessarily, but you could be right. That is why I am trying to resolve this issue of mine. SO that it will not further cause more problems.
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (13 January 2013):
If you suspect you have an anxiety disorder with OCD traits, then go to a psychiatrist, have yourself professionally- and officially evaluated and diagnosed , - then follow the treatment recommended for your diagnosis, whether it's talk therapy or meds or a combination of both.
That would seem the first , and most logical, step in your case, rather than being proved "right " or " wrong " , which is most often a matter of opinions and would not solve your problem. Supposing you were able to convince your wife that it is inappropriate keeping in touch with exes, and that she would stop... you'd find in 5 minutes something else to be anxious about and to obsess about.
I am surprised you haven't started yet to explore the possibility of a medical path to recovery. If you had a bad toothache, you'd see a dentist, because no amount of opinions and comments from a forum , even of tooth ache experts, would take your pain away.
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male
reader, Smart_Idiot +, writes (13 January 2013):
Smart_Idiot is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThis i only tangentially related to this thread, but here is an article about facebook and marriage from Woman's Day. It explains why it is a bad idea to be facebook friends with exes when you are married. http://www.womansday.com/sex-relationships/dating-marriage/facebook-and-marriage
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male
reader, Smart_Idiot +, writes (13 January 2013):
Smart_Idiot is verified as being by the original poster of the questionResponse to: A female reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2013): Did you have past sexual partners before your wife? Just wondering.
Yes I did. I suppose you are asking because I have insecurities?
I do recognize that we both had a past.
I am sexually insecure, and generally insecure, for a variety of reasons such as childhood issues, other past hurts of mine (prior to my wife), and currently this obsession was sparked by my displeasure with our sex life currently.
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male
reader, Smart_Idiot +, writes (13 January 2013):
Smart_Idiot is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you very much for your reponse. I can clearly see that first and foremost you are very caring and considerate. It also seems you have some knowledge about this problem I have. I have not been officially diagnosed, but it is the opinion of some professionals that I have an anxiety disorder, with OCD tendencies, not OCD like the TV character Monk, just obsessive in different ways. Trust me, no one wants this problem, and those that have it would love to be rid of it!Honestly I have already had the "trigger" thought you mentioned, seeing my in-laws and knowing that they knew her ex boyfriends. The first thing I stress to myself when this happens is "they are not your enemeies, they are not working against you." Even though I am not delusional I still feel it is important to stress realities in an alomost mantra-like way to myself. Does that make sense?As for being facebook friends with exes. I am not facebook friends with any of my exes. I do not have a double standard on that. I personally think that doing that is disrespectful to my wife and our marriage. It is not that I have any feelings towards them, I just feel it is inappropriate. For people who have children with exes it is necessary to have contact with them, I understand that. My wife is not in a situation like that. My wife says that it is not a big deal, she grew up with this person, they just made an honest mistake trying to be together, among other things. It may be okay for her, but not for me, it makes me uncomfortable. Just because I can accept that she had initmate relationships before me, does that mean that I should have to have them in my face (and unnecessarily)?On an aside, this ex also cheated on her when they dated. I don't understand why anyone would want to communicate with an ex that cheated on them. Honestly, I do kind of judge my wife on this point. Not for being cheated on of course, but because I see this as having a low sense of self-worth and self-pride.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (13 January 2013): You might need to see a psychiatrist and get some medication for OCD or anxiety disorders. Your brain is locked into a specific pattern and you cannot get it unstuck once it is triggered. People with anxiety disorders and other mental illnesses also have this. It is also common that over time it escalates to more and more triggers as you have found. Soon you might find that totally unrelated things trigger your obsessive thoughts such as even driving near a certain part of town where your wife used to go to high school for example, or just the sight of your in laws who had met her past boyfriends. It is a physical problem stemming from some areas of your brain being too active or inactive. It might be due to chemical imbalances, it might be genetic that your brain has a tendency to "lock up" like this and just so happens that this issue happened to trigger it. Medication can really help almost immediately. Also medication may be the only thing that will ever help in conjunction with cognitive therapy. If you value your marriage I hope you will look into this, before you destroy the relationship, as this problem does seem to overtaking more and more of your life and cutting into your relationship with her. (There is nothing wrong with being FB friends with an ex if there's no longer any feelings between them. What's more damaging is the controlling you try to do to her) Did you have past sexual partners before your wife? Just wondering.
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male
reader, Yos +, writes (11 January 2013):
"Its gets so bad sometimes that I think you even start to enjoy the pain, if that makes any sense at all. "
What Serpico says here rings true to me too. Thinking about her past can become like an addiction, with pain as the reward. A form of self harm.
I don't know if you've ever had to get over an addiction, such as quitting cigarettes, but it has something in common.
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male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (10 January 2013):
 I always say that, if you are having problems imagining your PARTNER having s*x with some other person..... the best way to ward off the disdain (and the "yeeechy" feeling).... is to imagine YOUR PARENTS having s*x, and spawning you.....
This always used to work for me.....
Good luck.....
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (10 January 2013):
It sounds like you've come quite far in this in a positive direction. Namely that you rationally know this is not a problem, and aren't caught up in a host of unpleasant irrational beliefs about your wife. That's really good news, many men in your situation end up believing the illusions that retroactive jealousy throws in front of them and acting out on them in very damaging ways. They'll think their wives have been immoral or have acted in ways they can't forgive. That's very hard to get past unless they see that those beliefs are blocking their progress.
But you are caught in the loop of trigger leading to negative emotion leading to negative thought and so on. A photo triggering the feeling that makes you think more, then feel worse, then think more, and so on. I know how terrible this can be: I experienced it and felt utterly trapped in some kind of prison of continuous mental torture. Escape felt impossible. After all: we can't change the past.
I had to teach myself to not get dragged into that loop. To experience a trigger and not let it catch my attention and imagination. I'm sure theres no limit to the ways we can individually achieve this but i can describe a few of the things that worked for me:
- Having a set of things I found interesting / engaging prepared. When a trigger occurred, I'd try to change the subject in my mind to one of these. To distract myself. Even a few moments of distraction I found sometimes helped snap me out of the compulsive loop of thinking about my partners past.
- I created a short mantra, describing my positive feelings towards my partner. I could recite this when things got very bad. It both reminded my of why I loved her and also became something to focus on: a meditation on the phrase. There were several other mantra-like thoughts that I found helpful, I won't mention them here but theres more on them if you look through my post history.
- Taking up tai chi helped a great deal. Things like yoga and meditation classes I think would do the same thing. This gives tools to calm our minds and regulate our breathing and body's anxiety levels. Lots of the exercises became ways to get out of the compulsive loop and let go of the negative images and emotions.
- Recognising and accepting a key idea: that thinking about her past is not going to help. I found that there was part of me that wanted to keep thinking about it (compulsively and obsessively) because I was letting myself believe that there was some resolution possible. That I would work out 'the answer' and the pain would stop. There isn't. The answer is to stop thinking about it, and the way to do that is not achieved through thinking about it.
At the start things felt hopeless. But once I managed to pull myself out of the negative spiral a few times I realised things weren't a lost cause and it became increasingly easy to deal with. Once you know that the images and feelings don't have to take over they lose their hold over you and you start to see them as the illusions, insecurities and meaningless noise that they are.
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A
male
reader, Serpico +, writes (10 January 2013):
Op - I can sympathize with you as I am afflicted with the same condition that you are, RJ. This is what I can tell you -1. Its existence is simply a product of our evolutionary past that has become incompatible with modern society. Its nothing to be ashamed of or think that something is "wrong" with you, it just is, and is much more common than you could have ever imagined.2. Its manifestation are not "your problem," anymore than your wifes past is "her problem." You are not being "immature" any more than you wife was being "immoral." What is comes down to is simply compatibility. You are no more or less "at fault" for feeling this way than your wife is "at fault" for her sexual past.3. What I can tell you is it is one SOB to defeat. If my experience is any indication, its going to get worse before it gets better. If it continues down the dark path that I have experienced myself, (and since you're posting here about it so I think it will,) you are in for one hell of a ride. You will spend untold energy fighting it, and sometimes the fight itself makes it worse. Its gets so bad sometimes that I think you even start to enjoy the pain, if that makes any sense at all. Like me, you have two choices - either find a woman who has a past you can accept, or work on this yourself. For me, I chose the latter, and Im all the happier, but I must qualify this with the stipulation that I wasnt married either. So if you want to work on this and stay, I suggest you read as much as you can here, esp by a poster named Yos, who has apparently successfully defeated this thing the hard way.I do wish you luck.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (10 January 2013):
Like others have said, it's great you know this is your issue rather than hers. I highly suggest searching the site for the words Retrograde Jealousy and Retroactive Jealousy and reading the tips from Yos, as he is the resident DC expert on this.
Second, from everything I've heard and read, most consider RJ to be a form of OCD. It shares a lot of the same qualities. OCD can be managed with therapy and there are great medications to help. The medications aren't always long term, often they are used in combination with the therapy for a certain time period while you learn how to cope and then you are weaned off the medications and remain in therapy for awhile.
The trick is that like any other disorder, depression, anxiety, etc... you are not necessarily "curing" yourself. That's not a realistic goal. You are getting to a point where these thoughts are not at the forefront of your mind really ever, and you become capable of dismissing them before they become an issue.
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female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (10 January 2013):
 You have a firm grip on reality and a rare awareness that your RJ is YOUR problem and you are wrong. Congrats.
Now I hope YOS will come along soon with his good advice.
I personally think that it surely does sound like a form of OCD here... and I strongly think that some medication and some cognitive therapy would do you wonders....
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2013): I reacted a similar way to my boyfriend in the past. Having had no sexual partners before him and he was experienced, it was hard to think of. However, you may ruin your relationship now if you think too much of her relationships from the past! Those are OVER and she is obviously more mature now and loves you (or she wouldn't have married you!) Continue with the therapy...it seems like you are dealing with some insecurity issues, maybe feeling like you are not good enough for her compared to those other men? I don't suggest you hide this from your wife, but it is likely to create a rift in your marriage if you obsess over what she did before she met you. I wouldn't worry too much about the Facebook thing. If she's contacting the guy, then I would be upset. Best of luck to you!!
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 January 2013): Weird, but I am in the exact same position as you described. Fiancee though..she is 30. My advice and what has helped me...deal with the images head on. Think them completely through. From the time they met, then the images of them having sex, then after sex. Try to imagine the most intimate details. Don't shy away from the images.You might come to understand that those are YOUR images and not what really happened. You also start to become callous to the images. It is what helped me.Never talk to your wife about her past...it is just not worth bringing up. Just tell her you need some alone time. If she presses you tell her the minimum and tell her you are working on it.Last....always remember that the ONLY reason you feel this way is because you love her.
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