A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Hi everyone, I have posted similar questions to this issue, and this is somewhat of a followup question.I have fallen for a foreign-exchange student who loves another that may or may not return the feelings. It is a relationship from his past that was on and off for several years, but she refused to marry him back then. From what he has told me, if she does want to be with him, it would not be so much because of love as it would be of convienence and because "she can't forget him".Well, he is a guy who is very logical, but when it comes to love he tends to leap first and ask questions later. He decided to propose again to her over the internet/phone (she is in his home country) and has given her a week to decide.Now this man knows how I feel about him, and we've had a "relationship" secretly for several months now. He admits that he feels very strongly for me, but for certain reasons he feels that he can't marry me and that he needs to see this previous relationship through because it is his "last chance at marrying [anyone]". Yet he wants me in his life because he trusts me and has shared with me aspects of his life and concerns that he hasn't shared with any others.As I've stated before, I accept this as a situation where I cannot win. I do not expect him to change his mind, and I love him enough to let him be happy as he chooses, even though it isn't with me. I will be happy just as his friend. But even after proposing he is throwing mixed signals. He asks me if he's doing the right thing, how I feel about it, has he made a mistake. It was one thing when he was still debating how he should proceed, but now he's made the plunge! I am trying to remain unbiased in my feelings and be reasonable, but I cannot tell if he is asking me these things to either convince me that 'we will only be friends despite our relationship' or if he wants my advice, to see if I will really stick with him through thick and thin?Initially I think the former, but there are other things to consider. For one, he's never told his parents back home about this relationship with the other girl all these years - she's never met his family and vice-versa, and marriage is a big deal where he is from - the entire families of both lovers are involved heavily. I'm from America and I've at least seen his parents and one of his younger brothers over a web-chat. There are other factors as well that I'll go into only if necessary.So my question is this - what do you think is the signal he's sending me, or what do you think I should look for or ask him to determine this for myself? I can ask him anything. Am I being foolish in letting a little light show rather than completely extinguishing the flame of my hope to be with him? Or is he subtly saying that he is reconsidering his rash choice to propose again?
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 March 2011): please take care of yourself. If you can distance yourself and let go of hurts and unfulfilled hopes, then tread carefully. But please don't kid yourself that you want to remain friends for the sake of being friends and not because you can't bear to completely remove him from your life. if you're only determined to stay friends because any contact with him is better than none, this is a very unhealthy place for you to be in and you'll be in for more hurt... it may be better to stop seeing him completely for now, let your feelings cool off and then once you no longer have feelings for him at all (which is definitely not right now) then you can try being friends.
A
female
reader, Sincerely Yours +, writes (4 March 2011):
 "He knows good and well that once I know her answer (and he will tell me), everything between us is cut. Friendship is all that is going to be there."
So if not friendship, what is there now?
In your previous posts, you made it sound as if you had a secret relationship with him which was not appropriate.
"Now this man knows how I feel about him, and we've had a "relationship" secretly for several months now."
But now you are saying he's innocent?
I am confused as to what you and he have actually done with one another, and/or said.
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female
reader, birdynumnums  +, writes (3 March 2011):
 Well said Cerberus.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 March 2011): Thanks very much for the update OP, it puts a lot of this into perspective, you don't have to apologize for anything either.
Your update has a lot of clarity in it and makes a lot of sense. Just prepare yourself for the possibility that friendship with him may just be too hard for you, I really have never been able to be "just friends" with someone I was in love with nor known or heard of anyone else that could. I've stayed friends for years with girls like that and while the feelings can subside for a little while they never go away, I can honestly say I would have been better off cutting them out early because I sacrificed my own happiness to be their friend. You see they didn't deserve to lose a friend just because that friend couldn't get a grip on his emotions, I felt that wasn't fair so I sacrificed my own happiness and stood there being crushed just so I wouldn't deny them my friendship, just so *they* could be happy and I'd be a *good* friend.
The only advice I can give you, which I found very hard to accept when I was in your situation, is to be selfish. Is to make yourself happy and prioritize yourself. If you're not happy with "just friends", if you're getting crushed or feeling general discontent with the situation then just walk away. Don't put his happiness above yours because in the long run if that is the case you will have to move on anyway but you'll have just wasted a long time hung up on a person when you could have been out there exploring your options.
Good Luck OP it looks to me like you'll be fine, maybe you will try the friendship thing, who knows you may even fall in love with someone else and be able to remain friends with this guy. Whatever happens though just dust yourself off and keep going. No one in this life can hurt us unless we let them hurt us, the trick is to see the signs of that early and nip it in the bud.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAgain, thank you everyone for your responses. I do apologize for making it seem that I'm in a mental wishy-washy, love-sick fool.Yes, I do admit that I love him. I don't love him in the manner of "I want him to be mine forever or else I'll just keel over and die" sort of way. I've been there, done that - and I am very, VERY thankful that it is not the same way for me in this situation. I love him in the way that I want the very best for him in his life, that being with me would just be the icing on the cake.Please believe me when I say that I don't see him like some god. He has plenty of faults, and I don't doubt even if I had a chance at a real relationship with him that it would fail anyway. The only saving grace would have been that I am normally just anti-jealous. As crazy as it sounds, this is one of the first times I've ever felt a touch of jealousy towards a competing woman. It doesn't even come from such things like her looks or personality or how she may or may not be better than me. It doesn't even really relate to the fact that he proposed! It is more from the fact that I didn't get the opportunity to really date him like she did.Yes, he's told me he cares about me. He has never sweet-talked it though. I know he does not love me, and he never will love me, much less the same way he loves this other girl. While it was earlier on some wishful thinking, I came to realize that before even posting the initial question. I do not plan to ever tell him the depths of my feelings either. To clarify what I've said before, I told him my feelings in the manner that I really liked him and would have liked to have had an actual chance at a relationship. To tell him how I fell for him - it would just make things all the more difficult for me. Also as his friend I do not want to put that weight on him, especially if he plans on getting engaged/married soon - poor guy is stressing like crazy.In due time, I'll get over my feelings and move on. I have too much to do to be "broken' by this experience. Either I'll get over it or in reality I was "broken" from my first abusive relationship and never got over it - either way I'm being productive in the other areas of my life.Oh yeah, just as an update, they at least for now are planning to get married. I am honestly really happy for them, and if anything knowing this will help me to emotionally distance myself so that I can be the friend I want to be without all of the problems falling for him caused. It went too far in the first place - that I knew long ago - and now its coming full circle. Jumping off at the next stop!
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reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (2 March 2011):
You should probably distance yourself and not try to remain friends with him until you are over him.
He sounds pretty messed up, and his reasons for wanting to marry his girlfriend sound pretty messed up too.
You say you want to remain his friend. That's a noble idea, but how is he treating you, as his friend? I think it's disrespectful of him to be having a relationship with you and still be discussing with you his plans to marry her. Unless you both agreed your relationship was strictly friends with benefits (which IMO usually leads to a lot of hurtful feelings and outcomes such as this).
Maybe you two need to clarify the boundaries of your friendship/relationship. Are you two on the same page as to what you both mean to each other?
Are you assigning him a greater role or significance in your life, than he is doing for you in his life?
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reader, birdynumnums +, writes (28 February 2011):
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. - Jonathan SwiftMight I just offer that a KIND man and an HONORABLE man would never put a woman in this situation? Doing the right thing is the Highest priority for any man of good conscience; any honorable stand-up kind of man. It's the kind of behavior that separates the men from the boys. Sleeping with you AND playing with your heart while planning on marrying someone else and ASKING YOUR ADVICE is cruel beyond words. Not kind. Not nice. And certainly FAR from honorable. You are allowing him to discuss his "feelings" and his "situations" when he isn't even considering how he is hurting you by doing so? How can you allow yourself to be spoken to this way? With such utter disregard for YOUR feelings, your professed love, they all mean nothing to him if he uses you as a giant sounding board for his future plans with his wife!!! WOW! How Can You Sit There and Take This??? He certainly not worthy of marrying even if he WERE free; being this wishy-washy and claiming cultural reasons for marrying while sleeping with someone else is SO self-serving; it's just blind selfishness; just like using you to scratch an itch. The man, scratch that, boy doesn't have any qualities of steadfast husband material anywhere in his character. You talk yourself into constant circles out of "love" and refuse to see things clearly and for what they actually are; you are so busy defending him, you aren't taking care of Yourself. And I think Cereberus is right; when you finally do wake up and see it clearly, you are really going to be devastated - I just hope that you don't waste years of your precious time over someone who doesn't love you. Good Luck. You deserve to be the number one priority for a good man who truly loves You.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 February 2011): OP your response just reinforces the fact that all you are is his back up plan. All your talk of being willing to accept his decision if he chooses her is a load of crap. You will be completely and utterly devastated, and the fact you actually believe that you can be friends with him even if he chooses to marry her is mind boggling in the extreme. You're really going to stay friends with a guy you are totally in love with and watch him play happy families?
OP no one is attacking you or meaning to insult you. I'm certainly not anyway but your acceptance of this situation is illogical, it makes no sense. I never once said he was a bad guy or that he wasn't good to you. But he is using you plain and simple, he's just being nice about it and you've accepted being used (I don't really believe that either OP, I think you're in this with the hope he'll choose you)
You see you accepted that situation at the start because he's a nice guy and you were casual about it. You never expected to fall in love with him and you know what? You knew and know that was a really bad idea because of the situation. OP you came here looking for ways to resolve this but there is literally nothing you can do. He's in complete control here, you've basically given him complete power and domination over your love and he's actively trying to win over the true love of his life, which is not and never will be you.
How do you expect that to make sense to any of us? OP you say all this stuff about having to know him, having to know the situation, we just don't understand etc. We do know, we get it OP we just don't get why any person would degrade themselves to the level of being someones back up and not even back up but someones booby prize. He may tell you different OP but we don't love him we can see this situation clearly he's trying to get the true love of his life to marry him OP and you're sitting there hoping he'll choose you even though he's already chosen her.
You see what you're missing what is so simple and easy for us to understand, you're missing that because you have hope, you're missing that because he's not some evil monster, he's a nice guy and you seem well suited, which makes you think you have hope when the fact remains you don't. You're so wrapped up in this situation that you can't see it for what it is or maybe you do but you think it will work out for you. Please don't be insulted by this but when we read your story we feels sorry for you and wonder if it's even possible that we'd ever get to such a low point as to be willing to let ourselves be so blind and lost in hope as you are. We look at your story and we wonder how bad our situation would have to be to accept that, we'd wonder how little we think of ourselves to be willing to hold on to the impossible.
You are just so desperate for this to happen OP, you make every excuse under the sun, you explain away the obvious. You say he's not the cheating kind but he's two timing, that's the same thing. Nice guys can be cheaters too OP, the only one that is confused here is you. You see in your eyes this guy is a god, he has an aura around him, he is the answer to your prayers and in your mind the guy you're destined to be with but he wants someone else. You're so desperate OP you'd be willing to sit back and just be friends, watch him build a life and watch him get married to his true love and have your heart crushed because you'll take what you can get from him, anything will do because for some reason you think this is the best you can hope for.
This really is sad OP, I don't mean pathetic but really sad, you sound like a broken woman to me. You sound like you've suffered so much torment and emotional abuse in your past that you're willing to accept any kind of treatment from this guy as long as he treats you nicely which he does. But it's all false OP, not that he's pretending or deceiving in fact he's nice enough to tell you the situation but it's false. It's hollow, you see you're settling because you have such low self worth that you think this is all you deserve and you're hoping that fate will step in and make everything okay for you but that's not going to happen.
Please accept that no one here will ever agree with your situation, we all know the best thing for you is to move on because while he may love you you're not the one for him or he wouldn't be actively trying to marry another.
None of the reasoning behind any of your decisions are logical all the excuses and everything you have said changes nothing from your previous response, you can write a novel about your situation and post it if you like but no reasonable sane person is going to tell you what's happening is in any way good for you because it's not. You're going to be very hurt here OP and I think you know that. You really don't seem to understand this situation at all or maybe you do but you just wish so badly that things will work out that you've convinced yourself that this is acceptable or maybe you think this is your last chance at love or something.
All I can say is read back over your situation with objective eyes. pretend it's someone else. Now think of what advice you'd give that person. It's pretty much the exact same advice we're giving you. Forget all the emotional involvement, all the beautiful words he has said, all those special moments you have shared, take a step back and have a long hard look at this.
Good luck OP, this is one of the more futile things I've seen in my 2 years here. We've had many stories of abuse, rape etc here and this post is definitely one of the saddest I've read because I see a broken woman who is going to be absolutely crushed when this all comes to a head. I hope you see sense and gain strength and do what's best for you OP. I hope you have a happy future and someday meet a guy who loves you and only you, one who will cherish you from day one and one that sees no other woman than you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 February 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAnd to chocoholicforever, yes there are some differences in beliefs, but nothing so extreme as what you are suggesting. I don't think the religious aspect is the important thing here, but I will say that I don't disagree with his views. Our worlds are different, but not that different.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 February 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWhile I appreciate all of the responses (despite some of them being a bit rude in my opinion), I realize that I failed to convey the situation in its entirety and as it is written it seems that I'm just a being a huge retard and at best am the girl on the side.
Here is a bit of clarity. Yeah, he does love her, and he also has strong feelings for me. Seems like a cheater. First off, if they marry, she will be coming to America. There is no "cookie" at both homes so to speak. He knows good and well that once I know her answer (and he will tell me), everything between us is cut. Friendship is all that is going to be there. I stated in the original that I do actually love him enough to accept that.
Secondly is one that I cannot possibly explain well on here. It is indeed one of those "you have to know him/her" situations. The guy is not a 'cheating' kind. He has not been with this girl during our relationship, and I understood going in that this may be a possibility given her situation back home - it was a culture thing. My figuring was that if it is meant to happen, it will happen, and that if he changes his mind I'm all the luckier. Even though he wasn't with her, he still expressed worry and concern over his actions. I gave him full opportunity to end everything at anytime, that I understood how he felt towards her, but he decided he wanted to have this time with me, even if it couldn't be forever. He is good enough of a guy to make even having him in your life a little while all worth it. Plus if I had tried to make a relationship work for over 6 years and was finally seeing a chance a closure, I'd probably understand even better. (I just never planned to fall so hard for him - my bad)
I'll spill my heart here folks. I have been in a relationship where I was used and emotionally abused, and this is not one of those cases. Not by a mile. His feelings and concerns are genuine, as are mine. The worst aspect of this isn't that "I'm being a doormat". If anything I pity him more, being in the emotional state where you may have found someone who really connects with you, but you cannot pursue it because of all the time and promises made to another. His past and present are leaving him torn and upset inside, with so many things that could have made it all so much simpler. I'm sure his family wouldn't like me all that much either (for him dating anyway), so that certainly doesn't help my end.
I don't blame him for choosing her - she is very pretty, smart, tall, and obviously speaks his language and (somewhat) better understands his culture (same nation, differing regions). She has a very bright future ahead of her, and to still propose despite being albeit lead on for over six years and the family problems she's faced recently...I'll tell you this, it is not because he is stupid.
My initial question was poorly worded - I know he's feeling confused. I am not trying to hold on to false hope or allow myself to get run over. I suppose a better question would have been how can I help myself let him go and be his friend. Because ultimately I just want him to be happy. My life will move on regardless, but I don't want to be plagued by "the love that never could be". If he marries her, I don't want to be forever wishing it was me and never meet a better Mr. Right.
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reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (28 February 2011):
I'm sorry but this guy does not sound the least bit logical to me!
Maybe it's due to cultural differences since you say he's not american but you are?
The facts that I can tell are:
1) you and him have had a secret relationship. He tells you he feels very strongly for you.
2) this other woman does not love him and he knows it. She already refused once to marry him.
3) Yet he wants to marry her not you.
4) And yet he wants you to still be in his life even if he marries her
Where is the logic? this makes no sense to me.
He says he needs to "see this relationship through" as his reason for marrying her? What on earth kind of reason is this?
So does he believe that once you begin a relationship with someone, you now owe them marriage no matter what?
So I would ask him, what are his beliefs and views of marriage? What does marriage mean to him? What does he expect or want from his marriage or from whoever becomes his wife? I would ask him what does he believe a "good" marriage looks like? What does a "bad" marriage look like? what does his own parents' marriage look like and does he want the same for himself?
Maybe, being from a different culture, his beliefs of what marriage is are completely different from yours. If so, you two are speaking completely different languages and have totally different value systems. You basically live in different worlds.
It sounds like he feels a marriage is a business relationship and that feelings of love, or compatibility are not important. ..?
Also I would ask him, what are his beliefs about infidelity? Does he not feel it is unethical? Obviously he seems to think it's acceptable if he's suggesting that you two continue your relationship despite him wanting (and possibly succeeding) in marrying someone else.
In the end it could boil down to just him having a completely different fundamental belief system of what marriage is or should be.
But that still doesn't make things any better for you. Even if he were to love you more than he loves her, but still want to marry her anyway for other reasons because his goals for marriage are completely separate, where does that leave you? It would still leave you in a very unsatisfactory position.
Since he hasn't actually proposed to her yet, I think this is your last chance to speak up and clear the air with him and see if there is any hope of you and him having a "real' relationship.
If he is hell bent on proposing to her, whatever his reasons and regardless of how much he may say he loves you, then it's just not going to lead to a good outcome for you so then you should probably walk away from him or you will find yourself having an affair with a married man, still longing for him, and still being bothered over why if he loves you so much why isn't he making himself exclusively available to you. It will be much worse once he's married than right now.
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reader, birdynumnums +, writes (28 February 2011):
I think getting DOORMAT tattooed on your forehead backward so that YOU can read it in the mirror every time you look into it would be helpful...
BUT it might be painful and even MORE painful to remove.
Perhaps if you read it in the mirror every morning you might actually let the reality of your relationship sink in.
HOW is it that you can write this whole thing down and not READ IT BACK to yourself?
"He is very logical." So YOU accept that HE has chosen someone else! How can you be with him still not accept this?
READ your WHOLE letter again back to yourself and pretend that it is written by somebody else!!!
What the heck advice would YOU give yourself?
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reader, Sincerely Yours +, writes (28 February 2011):
I think the "signals" are pretty strong. He's a cheater and a liar, and is being rewarded by having two women. One at each home. That way, no matter which stop he goes to, he gets a cookie. How nice for him.
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reader, SweetSmoochy +, writes (28 February 2011):
 Goodness.
Ok, so do you think it's fair that he's trying to marry a woman in his home country while he's dating you? I don't. You really shouldn't take that kind of treatment.
You need to really honestly think about what your opinion is on all of this. Write it all down, every thought that pops in, and once you're done, try to organize it in some way. Once you have your feelings straight, tell him exactly how you feel about the situation.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 February 2011): Actually it seems to me like you're his back up plan. He's keeping you around to keep him satisfied and loved while he tries to secure a future with this other girl. The girl he truly loves.
I don't see the confusion to be honest. Proposing to another woman is quite clear. He wants to spend the rest of his life with her but you'll do if she says no.
You better hope she says no, plus you'd want to hope the next girl says no too. Because if you were the one for him, he wouldn't have any doubts about who he wants to be with and he wouldn't be proposing to another girl.
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