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age
51-59,
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writes: So I've been dating a wonderful woman for about 7 months. We met on a popular dating site back in May. I kept it cool for the first few weeks, as I was casually seeing a couple of other people at the time. I'm in my early 40's, so I've been genuinely searching for a real soul-mate since I'd been mostly very career minded my adult life. Within a few months, it became clear that the connection and chemistry with this woman was very worth the proper dating 'exclusivity' that mature adults expect with each other. I gently cut it off with anyone else, and have embarked on a real one-on-one with my current sweetheart. In the last couple of months, we express our love openly, have met our respective families for major holidays, and hints of a real future together become increasingly forward in our relationship. My quandary lies in the area of values, in particular with the issue of abortion. While I lean a bit conservative compared to my sweetheart's liberal socio-political slant, an interesting issue surfaced as the recent presidential election heated up. My (albeit luke warm )support for McCain, and her (Obama supporter) demagoguery of Sarah Palin's 'pro-life' stance, triggered our first slightly heated phone conversation in which she felt the need to share a past crisis in her life. During her first failed marriage 10 years ago, she had become pregnant. Her then husband was reluctant, and it was decided that she should and did terminate the pregnancy. She explained it as 'not her decision', but that the circumstances and her husband's reluctance led to the difficult decision to 'terminate', and since the marriage was later doomed to failure, she ultimately had no regrets. At the time of our conversation, the topic seemed to be painful enough for both of us to drop for the time being, but I'm thinking it could be a lingering issue for one or both of us. Having a libertarian streak politically, I'm basically 'pro-choice' when it comes to the abortion issue in our society. But with a faith in God etc., as a personal matter, I've always had a very difficult time with that issue ethically. ie. I would never come down on the side of aborting an unborn if ever burdened with such a decision in a situation of my own making. There's even a part of me that wants to punch her ex-husband in the face for such a selfish insistence on eliminating his own progeny for being nothing other than inconvenient. Of course, if other decisions were made, none of this scenario (ie. me being in this picture now) would be playing out at all, so I'm down with the world-turning thing being what it is... I also understand that in this day, age and cultural/legal climate (at least in this and most western countries), it is women who have the sole right to these decisions. But I still find the abortion issue troublesome for so many (hopefully obvious) reasons, even from a male perspective. I'd always imagined that anyone I would potentially marry and have a family with would be someone who wouldn't even consider aborting her own child, so I'm a bit confused here about my own feelings. I truly love this woman. I'm just hoping for some perspective about this. Maybe I'm a rare male in this regard, but I'm not sure. When the potential for a real marriage relationship and family is so tangible with someone, the notion of such a seemingly cavalier paradigm about abortion that I don't share is freaking me out a bit. Anyone have any thoughts?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2009): To kill your baby is wrong, god should be the only to make that choice, cuz as humans we don't make good choices.
A
male
reader, NITRAM BLUE  +, writes (17 January 2009):
 Abortion has its pros and cons. I am so appalled that people make a statement like “fetuses are developed because they want to live.” I truly believe that abortions are necessary in certain special circumstances and in unusual events:
1. When there is a possibility that after conception, the mother will die and the great chance that the baby will not live. Now what are you going to do if you are the doctor? Proceed with child birth and let both die on your operating table? Now that is cruel.
2. Products of rape. A child is a product of love and not a product of hate. Assuming a rape victim gets gang raped by her kidnappers and after five months of captivity is rescued. Now what are you going to do, if the rape victim despises the horrible acts against her? Proceed with child birth and let them both live hating each other? Now that is cruel.
Being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion and the same goes to being pro-life does not mean being anti-abortion. We cannot simply rule out abortion as a medical procedure to solve unwanted births, unwanted by their mothers. It is a choice that the mother has to take. It is not an easy choice, yet some abhor abortion when you are not the ones affected by this painful surgical experience. There is no pleasure about abortion – it leaves a physical and psychological trauma.
I am pro-life and pro-choice. We should stand in the middle. We cannot simply declare flatly that we are purely pro-life when we denounced abortion yet invade a country to murder its citizens. We simply cannot flatly declare that we are entirely pro-life when we denounced abortion but have apathy on street children, homeless people and be ardent supporters of the death penalty for the people on death row.
To be pro-choice is not anti-life. Creating weapons of mass destruction is anti-life. Being a serial killer is anti-life. Pro-choice is not anti-life. Pro-choice is a choice to something about reproductive health and to avoid many medical nuisances such as STDs and cervical cancer. Pro-choice is all about the use of contraceptives and other artificial means to prevent fertilization and therefore childbirth. Pro-choice is about checking the population growth which in turn saves the rainforest, minimizes graft and corruption in government, and improves the quality of life.
The illegal loggers who denude the rain forest were once babies. The corrupt government officials and employees were once babies. The terrorists who belong to the Abu Sayaf, Al Quaeda and Osama bin Laden were once babies. The serial killers like Son of Sam, Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were once babies. Would you not wish that they were aborted by their mothers? Think about it.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 January 2009): Get off your high horse. You are so burdened by you judgment of her opinion of abortion that you are going to let a person that you say you love slip away.
I agree with the first poster, it is not your business what her and her first husband did. That is what they did then, and a punch in the face is not going to solve that. On a side note I love how we rage against one violence but condone another.
Anyway, stop your judging and accept the person that you love, flaws and all. Embrace that and you might learn something that you both grow from. Of course these can be heated conversations and that is good at times as well.
But seriously, are you worried that she is going to get pregnant and run off and have an abortion? Sounds like she regrets that and would never want to have another one, so really what is there to worry about.
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female
reader, Tinkerbell-x  +, writes (16 January 2009):
Pro-Life 110%
no matter how that baby was conceived it's not the childs fault.
So don't bother saying that it's fine in the case of rape.
You get a blessing from something so horrific.
They want to be born, they want to be loved!
You wouldn't murder a physical baby would you?
And, when it's being aborted, the baby can feel it.
It's sick to be pro-choice.
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A
female
reader, aunty_rach +, writes (16 January 2009):
at the end of the day it is the woman's choice. it is her body after all. i think some men are against abortion because it is one thing they can not really control. i think if a woman wants to have an abortion then it is up to her. i don't see why these protestors give these poor women a hard time, at the end of the day someone's abortion does not effect them..it effects the woman!
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A
male
reader, NITRAM BLUE +, writes (16 January 2009):
The plus I see in your relationship with this woman is both of you have ideas different from each other. The way I see it, both of you will have a lot of things to talk about. She being a pro-choice and you being a pro-life. She being a liberal and you being a conservative. She being a Democrat and you being a Republican. She supported Obama and you supported McCain. She wins and you…never mind.
Assuming both of you have the same line of thoughts and the same agreeable issues, then probably conversations with her will end quickly and boring. So these differences in perspective adds life to your conversations as well as to your relationship with her. Opposites pole attract while same poles repel each other. That is magnetism, which is important in a relationship.
The danger is forcing issues and beliefs which creates irreconcilable differences. Irreconcilable differences then become a reason to break up the relationship and in some married couples lead to divorce.
To avoid this from happening, you as a man must be the one to temper down should a discussion becomes uncomfortable. General issues like pro life and pro choice are decided upon by the needs of the time rather than these be decided by the two of you. Needless to say, passionately discussing the matter which will consequently be heart breaking to both of you, would be pointless when the great multitude of Americans in your state either affirms or reject a significant proposition.
You can discuss issues with her but mellow down your points. You have a romance going on, not campaigning for issues.
I am against abortion in general but there are instances when abortion is needed due to medical grounds (when the life of the mother is at stake and chances of the baby to survive will be very slim) or/and in cases of rape.
In my country, there is no strong proponent for pro-choice while the Catholic Church is pro-life. The Catholic Church wants the natural way of preventing birth (i.e. rhythm method) and forbids the use of condoms and birth control pills. They tell us that using these artificial devices are mortal sins. But in my view, they just want people to bear children so the money will continuously flow for worship contributions, baptismal fees, wedding fees and burial fees. A smaller population means a smaller inflow of money. Go forth and multiply they said, but they themselves are celibate. Am I going to listen to some priest about reproductive health or to an indigent parent with ten children to feed?
No politician in my country will stand up for pro-choice, to stand up will mean losing for re-election. No one is brave enough here to save my country to curb a ballooning population, not even the President herself. Pro-Life wins in my country. A country as large as the State of Nevada but with a population ranked No. 13 in the world’s biggest population. No state in the United States of America will surpass my country in population density.
With pro-life winning all the time, the ills are prevalent corruption from the lowest government employee to the President.
http://www.collectivelens.com/photos/photo_1203325182_b.jpg
With pro-life winning all the time, we need to create communities therefore cutting down our rainforest becomes necessary.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/78/164711631_3a065c3276.jpg?v=1202578090
With pro-life winning all the time, there are underemployment and unemployment everywhere.
http://www.millenniumcampaign.org/atf/cf/%7BD15FF017-0467-419B-823E-D6659E0CCD39%7D/Philippines_WhiteBand_90_GCAP-Philippines.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/mark2mkt/PurchasingPower2.jpg
With pro-life winning all the time, there are begging children and criminality in the streets.
http://www.hobotraveler.com/blogphotos/187-02-beggar-in-manila.jpg
With pro-life winning all the time, we have been exporting Filipinas to Japan to entertain the Japanese males.
http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/japan/images/japan-filipinas-0823.jpg
With pro-life winning all the time, life in my country is cheap.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2370/2268995683_2f76de9813.jpg
What makes America great? It is because the people there are broad minded on issues and they are able to change for the better – from the first black slaves of 1607, the mutinous African slaves of Amistad of 1839, the dream of non-segregation and equality of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. on August 28,1963 and now to your first black US President Barack Hussein Obama II, are all part of the American story of deliberations, struggles and the willingness of people to realize that there are consequences and benefits behind every socio-political issue. There are benefits and evils to both pro-life and pro-choice. I have given you glimpses of my country which is pro-life.
My advice: Maybe you should re-evaluate your stance on pro-life or at least consider the fine points of her pro-choice issues. Above all, enjoy the love and the romance which you and your partner could share with each other.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 January 2009): My husband and I have differing political views, and have agreed that we will not discuss them with each other. As for the issue of abortion, I agree with abortion if there is a serious need for the termination, ie., deformaties, rape etc. I do no agree with abortion as a solution to getting out of responsibilities. You must have a serious discussion with your soon to be wife regarding how you will both cope with your differences. You might need a counsellor or mediator to assist you.
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A
male
reader, Horne  +, writes (16 January 2009):
And so you highlight probably the biggest dividing social issue in the country. Those who want to punch the others in the face for eliminating their own progeny.
It's not your business. Whatever decision was made at that point was neither yours, nor of your making, nor any of your business. Your religious and personal views are yours. The religious and personal views of your relationship will be those worked out by you and yours. Dude, a week ago the woman I'm hoping to marry sat down and told me that at one point in life, she was a prostitute. You want to compare moral quandaries?
That person she was, is not the person she is now. The woman you are with, is not the woman she was with her ex husband. You have no real idea how much was involved in that decision at that point, the debates, the feelings, how controlling he may have been. So stop judging and stay out of other people's business. The past does not paint the future. It may tell you what a person is capable of, but does not foretell that person's actions in the future - especially in a future you're building together.
This whole social issue is basically one where one group can't stand what another group does. If you're going to see her as less of a person, less moral, less anything because of that decision, do her a favor and find someone else. She's already been through whatever feelings and emotions that time caused. It's not going to do your relationship any good for you to start standing on a podium and lecturing her over decisions that were made with another man with whom she was in love with. It's over. It's done.
Build your own future. Show her what it means to you. I doubt there will be any problem should she become pregnant if you do that. The child will loved, cared for, and raised in a loving household.
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