A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I’m in my first relationship and have been rocked by a revelation from my girlfriend. I’ve been trying to deal with it myself – for reasons that will become clear I can’t discuss it with friends – but it is driving my insane. I really need some help to try and understand, to get me into help especially if it’s from any females who might have been in a similar situation to my girlfriend.Basically when she finished school at 18 my girlfriend went to Paris as an au-pair where she met some guy, lost her virginity to him, often had unprotected sex, found herself pregnant, legged it back to the UK, had an abortion.I admit I’ve perhaps led a sheltered life – I went to an all boys school – and therefore perhaps don’t understand girls that well! This is also my first girlfriend and, for reasons I won’t bore you with, I’m quite a late starter compared to most people – I’m 21. Nevertheless relationships of friends have always been around people they’ve known for a time, they’ve grown to know and then form a loving relationship with. Not some guy in a foreign country you can barely hold a conversation with due to language differences and where it won’t work out because you’re only a short-term contract etc. etc.I want to discuss things, to try and understand but whenever I try she gets really upset and clams up – so I don’t anymore and am trying to deal with this myself. I can appreciate that given what happened but I’m then left with so many things in my head. All I really know is she met this guy in a park (what kind of guy picks up like that – was he a ‘player’ and using her); she didn’t often use contraception (“I wanted him to” … OMG what power did he have over her to do this and for her to give her virginity away like that). It makes me form some pretty bad thoughts in my head any I find myself going to a very dark place.I know some of you are just going to say “get over it”; “she loves you now”; “this is in the past” … but that won’t help. I’ve tried – really tried – to get this out of my head. I can’t discuss it with friends as we know similar people and in any case I’ve sworn to her I’ll never divulge this to anyone I know.As well as all the unanswered questions that rattle round my head (trying to deal with the few facts I know versus the person I (think I) know) – there’s the contradiction I just can’t deal with:1) If she loved this guy, and enough to be intimate with him like that, then why didn’t she discuss it with him when she found she was pregnant? Why did she just run?2) If she didn’t love or care for this guy then why did she get intimate and give her virginity away like that; what kind of person am I going out with here?I hope this doesn’t come across as me, me, me. I’m not like that and I really do appreciate she must have gone through a lot of pain here. But finding this out has really hit me hard. I can’t resolve it to the person I know … that’s why I need some held understanding. Please.
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male
reader, StarterSam +, writes (25 October 2011):
From Original Poster:It seems that this site has changed in needing to now register to post messages ... but, yes, I am the original poster!I've come back to my posting to get strength from the kind people who have left advice previously having gone through a bit of a bad patch recently and was surprised that there have been some further postings - thank you.To 'metalsman': I empathise and, like you, find myself having to come back to re-read advice and get strength from the wise words of Yos (what a great bloke). And it is the 'trigger issues' that I find perhaps hardest to deal with because by their nature they are unpredictable - so I find myself caught out by them.To 'So Very Confused': Oh, I would never throw this in her face ever, not even in anger. This is my issue and not hers.To anonymous (12 September 2011): Those are some very good points. I suspect - being male - I have done a 'worst case' and in lieu of being able to find out facts have instead filled gaps with bad images. Oh, she wouldn't do the same thing again ... and I guess that is part of the problem: I'm surprised and have been confused she did this in the first place. Which brings me neatly onto:Anonymous (14 September 2011): The "what kind of person am I going out with" comment is precisely where my confusion has lain and perhaps made me sound like some idiot male judgementalist. That is not the case (in my humble opinion) but I do understand I am and have perhaps not been able to see through the fog of certain things. [And please note the topic heading 'Please help me to accept her past' is not mine but must have been chosen by a moderator; I would have preferred 'Please help me to deal with her past because I know I'm being irrational')Anyway, I think you are very right in what you say and thank you very much for giving an alternative - and woman's - perspective on this. [And incidentally I'm very sorry for your terrible experience - hanging would be too good for scum that do that to a woman].For anyone else who might read this looking for advice then you can't go far wrong reading Yos's advice but I'd like to offer just some further thoughts. Through hours of self analysis I find this is a multi-faceted issue for me that can be broken down into probably five main areas (albeit they are linked):1) Retroactive Jealousy: There's no need for me to say much on this as this is probably the key area that someone like Yos has given some truly excellent advice on. We feel jealous of the men that the person we love was intimate with before us.2) Worried about there being other things I don't know: This is perhaps where the need to question comes from as there's a worry there might be other things lurking that might 'ambush' me later. This kind of comes back full circle to the 'do I know this person?' question and lurking worries.3) Our 'barometer' of what's normal: We perhaps all take a viewpoint on something based on our experiences or those of our peers - our 'barometer' if you like. Because my girlfriend's experience seems so out of kilter with what I considered normal (get to know someone special at college or in the workplace, date them with a view to a long term relationship etc.) then this has set some internal alarm bells. Would I have had the same issues if she'd had a relationship before me that was what was 'normal' by my barometer? I'll never know. As the 14 September poster said: "Love and sex are very complicated things". Yos tells of someone his partner knows who had sex with a whole hockey team and my viewpoint would clearly be quite different from perhaps other people if suddenly faced with that fact and I was in a relationship with that person (I think my barometer would have melted!). My point is that our view of something can be tilted if we have had little or no exposure and so a candid but alternative viewpoint from someone else whose opinion you value and trust could assist (although the hockey team example is perhaps a little extreme and I think most people would have a little trouble if they found their girlfriend had done that).4) I wish I could have protected her: This might be unique to my experience because of what ended up happening to my girlfriend but I have thought "if only that had been me instead of him or if only I'd been there to protect her from that experience". Silly of course ... but still an occassional twinge.5) Betrayal: Yes this sounds totally mental and irrational but sometimes it feels like I've been betrayed. She didn't know me when she had her experience so this is pretty silly I agree but it feels almost like she squandered what would have been special (imao) for us with a 'meaningless' (imao) relationship with someone else. I open myself to ridicule with this revelation but I'm being honest so that other readers who might (?) share the same feeling don't feel they are in a boat on their own.I feel it's been important for me to break down things into these more identifiable chunks so I can pigeon hole something when it does sideswipe me and use the right approach to deal with it. At the moment I'm not quite strong enough to just 'move on' and forget about it.Also whilst I appreciate the advice on letting her go as she might not be a good match I don't feel that's the right answer. She has been honest with me about it (albeit not wanting to discuss the subject meaningfully) and who's to say if I did start up another relationship I wouldn't have a similar (or worse!) situation. Is this a problem I have and would only have with my current (first) girlfriend because of the circumstances (nurture) ... or is this something in-built in my head that causes it (nature) and means I would only suffer with someone else.I'm confident I can reach a place where this doesn't seem like an ever present burden that my mind won't let go.:-)
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 September 2011): jesus yes you really are backward thinking, although you seem like a very decent guy and I think you are doing the right thing by trying to deal with your own issues in your head. Firstly I'm going to talk about the virginity issue...Ask any girl before she has lost her virginity whether she wants it to be special and I can guarantee pretty much every one will say yes. (What girls consider "special" to mean however is what differs and I will come to that later). What you need to get your head around is that life does not always work out like that, how we planned or dreamed, and sometimes circumstance and chance really do manipulate your life. And you should not be judged for it! Just because a girl doesn't lose her virginity in a fairy tale like manner with a soul mate does not mean that she is a bad person or damaged goods ("what sort of a person am I going out with"!!!!!!) Take myself for example... Yes I would have loved to have fallen in love and had the most romantic sex ever for my first time but unfortunately I was raped by a stranger when walking home one day. In my mind this does not make me any lower or worse than a girl who has "succeeded" in having a fairy tale loss of virginity. If you love your girlfriend as much as you say you do then I would hope that you would love her regardless of how she lost her virginity/ how many people she's slept with/ what the circumstances were.Secondly... obviously I don't know your girlfriend so I can only speak for myself but I personally think that moving to Paris and being swept of your feet by a mysterious foreigner really does seem like the sort of situation that a lot of girls would gladly lose their virginity in. Its idealistic and wistfully romantic and exciting. Like I said earlier losing your virginity in a special way can mean lots of different things to different girls. To some it is about sleeping with who they think is the love of their life (often they are not a while down the line), for some it is about location, or painting a romantic/exotic picture. Maybe in your girlfriend's situation it was the latter. The pregnancy brought her back to reality and she ran.Love and sex are very complicated things, don't judge or compartmentalize.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 September 2011): I think Yos is on to something with respect to insecurity being a factor in RJ. At least that is/was true in my case.My GF is very attractive and very outgoing, and I know she could get many, many offers for sex every single day from men. Her past is evidence of how easy it is for an attractive young woman to get sex.One thing that has helped me some are the old sayings that "women give sex to get love, and men give love to get sex", and the somewhat similar saying "It's easy for women to get sex, but it's hard for women to get love, but for men it's easy to get love, and hard to get sex". It's easy to look at a women's experiences from our male perspective and come away with a somewhat distorted view. For example, I have no way of knowing for sure what was really going on with your GF, but as a man my first thought tends to be "My god she was easy, she must really love having sex with guys she barely knows. She's likely to run out and sleep with every guy she meets in a park because she just loves sex soo much that she sleeps with almost anyone!" From her perspective, it might have been: "I was so naive, scared and lonely living in a new city where everyone spoke a different language. Growing up I never really felt loved. I wasn't really all that attracted to this guy, but he seemed nice and I really wanted to be with someone. I didn't know what it would be like because I was a virgin. Unfortunately, it wasn't really that great and it turned out this guy was basically using me for sex and I was very hurt by the whole situation. I sure learned my lesson, I would never do again!"Ultimately you will never know with absolutely certainty what her frame of mind was at the time, or why she did it. She might not understand it completely herself.More to the point, I do know my GF has always wanted more than anything to be truely loved by someone, and she never really felt that in the past. I tend to think almost all women feel this way, even the ones that society would label "promiscuous". Love tends to be a trial and error process for most of us. Try to figure out what your GF really wants in a relationship, and whether or not you can give her that.With respect to the moral issues of what your GF is like, it seems to me the main question is "Would she do the same thing today?" If you can say without a doubt "no", your primary issue is RJ. It the answer is "yes" or "I'm not sure", it seems to me there is more likely to be a "real" issue with respect to what type of person she is. Keep in mind though, that everyone is free to choose how they want to live their own life. If she makes different choices than you, it primarily means you're incompatible.
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reader, So_Very_Confused  +, writes (11 September 2011):
 if you can't get past it and can't forgive her than I suggest you end it. every time you fight you will throw it in her face and she will be hurt and angry and eventually it will cause her to leave.
young people make mistakes. if you truly love someone you forgive them their past before you were even part of their life.... and start with a clean slate..... people can and do change... I've seen it over and over... they just have to be truly motivated to do so.
having someone dredge up their past and throw it in their face is just a painful reminder of their learning curve...
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A
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 September 2011): Just because there are ways to cope with the pain that does not make it sensible to be trying to live with it. Not when you don't have to.
This problem exists because modern social rules prevent people like the O.P. from seeking out partners who are good matches for them. This is wrong, plain and simple. The O.P. should not have to spend the whole relationship dealing with this permanent problem in the first place. He should not face disrespectful treatment from others when he tries to seek out a partner that shares his values and life experiences.
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reader, Yos  +, writes (11 September 2011):
 Thanks metalsman.
You said something that I think deserves a comment, it's not something I've seen discussed before:
"You might ask, "if that's the case why am I still looking at these articles and writing responses?" ..Well good question, I guess it's the attraction of the subject which had me gripped for quite some time, and perhaps being honest, having some retained morbid fascination with seeing how other have/are dealing with it."
It's a really good question. I guess I'm in the same boat: since I still come to DC and post on the subject.
Personally I don't believe retroactive jealousy is something we can be 100% free of. For many of us at least. You could compare it to smoking: it's great to give up, but there's always a chance a smoker will relapse. In a sense, once you have quit smoking, you are always an 'ex smoker'. The same with RJ.
It's definitely the case that I don't suffer from RJ now. But there's moments when I experience what would be a major trigger that for a second I have to apply myself to 'not go there'. Not often, and avoiding it is easy, but it's still necessary.
I'll give you an example: my partner was discussing a friend of hers with me last night. She said:
"She used to be really wild, but now she's married and has a kid. When we hung out she was so wild: she once had sex with a whole hockey team at the same time".
I asked "Ahh. Does her husband know that?"
"No way. And she made me and some of our friends promise never to say".
A RJ sufferers worst nightmare: from the perspective of the husband at least. Of course this was my partners friend, and not my partner. But still: they were hanging out at the time and my partner has told me she had a 'wild past' too, though I don't know specifics, nor do I want to know.
But at that moment I felt the desire to ask more, to ask my partner directly what she was up to at the time. And also to question whether her friends husband had a right to know. I felt a sense of outrage rising on behalf of the 'duped' husband. And an even more destabilizing fear: perhaps my partner is speaking about herself and testing my reaction? Checking to see what's ok to reveal. If you've had RJ you know how far those worst-case-scenario fictions can take you.
But I deliberately didn't ask. Instead I changed the subject. And the danger was quickly gone. Nor will I ever raise it again. That road leads only to ruin.
So back to the original question: I think that once someone has overcome RJ there's a good reason to never forget its lessons. You can consider yourself always 'at risk', and retaining the awareness of the mindset needed to overcome it is healthy and useful. If that means occasionally reading the accounts of other men suffering from RJ, then so be it.
There's another reason too: the unfortunately rare comments from men who have overcome it can be incredibly helpful for those that are suffering. I know how hopeless the catch 22 feels when you are in it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 September 2011): What she did is very common. But NOT doing it is very common too. There are thousands of other girls out there that share your values (in actions, not just words.) I suggest you spare yourself this hurt and get out of the relationship. She's not a bad person but she's just not a match for you. This continues to hurt you so much because it is so important to you. It's a big part of what you want in a woman.
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reader, metalsman +, writes (9 September 2011):
 It's been a while since I last wrote a response on this website, and more especially on this subject, but the quality of the OP's initial article, and the majority of the subsequent help responses prompted me to add my four'penneth (that's Dimes'worth in your parlance Yos !! lol).Anyway to the OP, I have agonised and shared your same sentiments and anguished viewpoints and feelings since this same issue affected me a few years ago when it came to the forefront after 25 yrs of marriage. Quite why it surfaced at that point in time I still don't know but I wasn't in a great place within myself and I believe it prompted some deep rooted hidden feelings to surface and manifest themselves in the same fashion as your dilema.Many of the things you have written here I share, empathise with and have raised exactly the same emotional questions and responses with me also.To some degree I feel like a kindred spirit with you.However (and here's the good news) I fervently believe that after reading all that there is to be read about this subject, and to a large degree listening to advice offered by helpful individuals here on Dearcupid I am pretty well devoid of the totally consuming emotional black hole which initially this condition had me in.I know you've acknowledged the advice and help offered by Yos within this article of questions/responses and to be honest I would further endorse that it was Yos and his guidance which put me on the straight and narrow again.You might ask, "if that's the case why am I still looking at these articles and writing responses?" ..Well good question, I guess it's the attraction of the subject which had me gripped for quite some time, and perhaps being honest, having some retained morbid fascination with seeing how other have/are dealing with it.One point I would like to add which may offer some additional glimmer of respite for you whilst dealing with this, and I this helped me ultimately, was, that after struggling with it for so long, and imagining this, that, the other, trying to understand it all etc, was that I just plain got tired of all the emotional hurt it was causing and I simply ran the subject to death more or less until i'd got fed up with it. In other words, there was no more to find out, to deliberate over, to hurt myself over, and I think sub-consciously it progressively became less and less of an issue.Like you there are certain trigger points (e.g. your Eiffel Tower picture) which now and again give me cause to stop and think, but they've become fleeting moments and generally don't promote any kind of deep rooted antagonism or emotional trauma anymore.Well there you go, for what it's worth my small contribution. As you know Yos provides so much strength and wisdom on this issue and I'm sure you'll analyse what he has said here. I once made a comment some years ago when I was back in my dark place with this that as a subject it warrants a form of psychological attention in it's own right, well if that's the case then I hope they call on Yos to provide the background material for it.All the best
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reader, Yos +, writes (2 September 2011):
Yes, it's extraordinarily difficult to self-diagnose when it comes to discovering your irrational beliefs that need to be changed.
Some of the things you have said offer hints. You said:
"If she didn’t love or care for this guy then why did she get intimate and give her virginity away like that; what kind of person am I going out with here?"
What kind of person are you going out with? It seems you must have some value judgments going on, some negative ones. In there somewhere will be the irrational beliefs that are contributing to your retroactive jealousy.
"My 'fairytale' has kind of come crashing down in some ways!"
Belief in a fairytale is irrational too, in some regards. You may have some expectations that are overly idealistic that you need to re-evaluate.
"I seem to have fallen into a trap of needing more and more information to deal with things"
That is a trap: the belief that finding out more information will help you is wrong. You need to accept that more information is only going to lead you to more pain, and then let go of the need to ask questions.
Well I should be more specific. Don't ask any fact-based questions. It's ok to attempt to understand her emotional state at the time, but avoid anything to do with specifics around actions, places, and the guy involved. The only important thing is her feelings, and you establishing empathy with her.
But anyway, I suggest two things.
The first is to go through the article in the link i posted below. That describes a technique for locating and challenging your negative irrational beliefs.
If you find that's not working, then you should see a therapist. Therapists are trained to do exactly this: listen to you and identify where the problem is, then correct it. That's what they do. I saw one briefly during my retroactive jealousy and it was helpful. Looking at your age, perhaps you are at school or college? They should be able to provide you with free counseling.
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reader, anonymous, writes (31 August 2011): From original poster:Hi Yos. Another great post ... and another useful link. Thank you so much for your attention and assistance here. As ever you offer wise words and incisive advice. I am very grateful.What I guess I'm having trouble distinguishing between here sometimes are 'real' and valid worries/thoughts ... and those that are instead caused by retrospective jealousy and irrational 'mind traps' if I can terms it that way for now based on what you've said.I'm quite a positive person and on that basis I suppose I'm lucky in a way that I can 'step back' slightly and try to look at what's happening here. In that respect what you say makes a lot of sense ... the fact that, yes, perhaps I am trying to explore things - anything - to try and explain this away. I have been caught out by this terrible, all encompassing nauseating feeling that as a former sufferer I know you will empathise with.I had not considered the self-esteem/alpha-male slant but perhaps there is something there subconsciously.I know the thing that has bothered me perhaps the most is the way she met him ... he just approached her and 'chatted her up' in a park. Now I realise I don't know all the details but that just seems so random and crap. And for her then to fall for his patter and for her to have unprotected sex and all the things that followed ... that's difficult to handle; especially given the inevitable short-termism of it all.Am I making a moral judgement? I hadn't considered it that way but, yes, I just need to read that last paragraph back and can see that perhaps I am. But how does one then differentiate in life between a real "but hang on a minute that's odd" thought process and one that gets beaten back because it's RJm irrational and/or a moral judgement one has no right to make. It's a bear trap!And maybe that's something else I've considered that 'hurts' ... if only she'd waited to meet me. I wouldn't have hurt her like that and our relationship is such that it would have been meaningful (another judgement?) and if something bad happened then (hopefully!) she wouldn't just leg it! Now clearly that's really irrational - we didn't even know each other when she met this guy in a foreign country; but at least that indicates to me that a lot of this IS irrational. But when I'm 'caught out' by wandering thoughts and triggers it's like mind walking in treacle.Your advice, however, is brilliant and when I read it through; and re-read it I'm in a better place. I'll learn and perfect the techniques you've introduced me too. Thank you once again.
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reader, Yos +, writes (30 August 2011):
What you have just said about beliefs, morality and love are very typical comments from someone in your situation. I have heard them over and over, and used to think them myself.
I have come to see that they are incorrect. They are a trap. I'll try to explain, it's a bit subtle so bear with me.
First you say that she is a regular church goer and a good and nice person. But you feel that her actions are contradictory with that.
Except that in reality they are not: the world is full of good and nice people who have experiences similar to hers, and unpleasant, manipulative, dishonest people who haven't had similar experiences.
In other words, your belief does not reflect reality. It is an irrational belief. She absolutely can be a good and nice person and have had the experience she had. There is no contradiction. The contradiction is in your head, and nowhere else.
You say it 'belittles the whole idea of love, relationships and giving yourself to someone'.
Except that it doesn't. Love, relationships and commitment are not absolutes, they are in reality messy, complex and full of trials and tribulations. What you are describing is a romanticized, in your word: idealized, version of these things that almost never happens. We don't live in a perfect world, and if you cling to that image you'll just end up having relationships that don't and can't live up to that ideal. No one is perfect, no woman is perfect, you are not perfect; so how can you reasonably expect the perfect relationship?
She is just as capable of true love, a good relationship, and strong commitment, as anyone else. As you are.
What I believe is happening to you is that your rational mind is trying to make sense of the powerful negative emotions you are suffering. You are trying to understand what is going on. And in doing so, you are grasping at straws to explain it. To label it. And through the distorting lens of jealousy you are jumping to irrational, misguided conclusions.
This is also a crisis of self-esteem. You may not be aware of this, or want to admit it, but there are unresolved insecurities somewhere what are amplifying your emotional reaction. It may just be as simple as you being a 'late starter' and your lack of experience with women. It may be more. It also possibly stems from not being an alpha-male: which is hard for us men to admit, although almost all of us are not alpha.
When these combine you get a very typical reaction: yours.
Your mind is trying to diminish her experience, and by proxy: her. You are trying to label her actions as less-than-moral, and her relationship with this guy as inconsequential and 'less-than'. You are taking the moral high ground: saying that you are 'good and moral' and she is 'bad and immoral'. By doing so you regain your self-esteem as well as gain a degree of mastery of the situation. You become the aggrieved party. She is the guilty party. You are the innocent victim.
That makes you feel better about yourself and your role in this situation. And crucially it 'justifies' your negative emotions. But it also leads you into a terrible trap: the trap of unresolvable contradictory feelings and beliefs you now find yourself in.
The reason you can't resolve this, that it's 'driving you insane' is because it's based on these irrational beliefs. It's unresolvable precisely because it doesn't make sense. Holding your beliefs the way you do will always lead you to this contradiction. Because the beliefs themselves are wrong.
The good news is that you are close to the core of what is holding you back from getting over this.
Try thinking about it from this perspective:
"I can change my beliefs and by doing so change the person I am. Having done so I can be happy with my girlfriend, and a stronger and wiser person in the world".
Do you want that? Sounds good, no?
If you do, you have only to change these beliefs. Become the person you will be if you no longer hold them.
For me this was an enormous battle. I clung onto my beliefs (very similar to yours) because I felt they had some deep moral value and partly defined who I was. I was unwilling to drop them because I was terrified of the person I'd become if I really did change. But then at the moment I actually did let those beliefs go, the sense of release and relief was enormous. At that moment I knew I was on the road to recovery. And I also became a better person as a result. Me: version 2.
We are not our beliefs. Goodness and morality come not from judgment and clinging to the past: but instead from compassion and treating everyone as an equal. As a churchgoer you are very aware of this. You can become a truly moral and good person not by judging her: but instead by showing her equal respect to yourself and showing true compassion. You can become that person by letting go of your irrational beliefs about her actions.
There is a technique for doing this. Rather than repeat it i'll give you a link, I highly recommend the process it worked well for me and I have heard similar from others:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14728-handling-irrational-beliefs/
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 August 2011): From original poster:
Thanks Cathy. The thing is I thought we did share the same belief system. We come from similar backgrounds; she's a regular church goer and is a genuinely good and nice person. I think that's the bit I find hard to reconcile.
This isn't about the abortion - I think women have a crap time on that front and this must have been a terrible decision to make - but to have got that intimate with someone in a relationship that couldn't last has me confused. It kind of belittles the whole idea of love, relationships and giving yourself to someone.
Maybe I live in an idealised world, maybe I was a fool to wait until 21 to have an intimate relationship ... who knows.
I'm doing my best to 'CBT' this away through the advice given by Yos and others ... but sometimes it's hard!
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reader, Yos +, writes (26 August 2011):
"Because of where this happened - Paris - then this has even gone so far as imagery of that place (the frickin Eifel Tower for one which appears everywhere now it would seem!) then causing me almost physical nausea."
I know that feeling very well. You'll find there are various (and often numerous) triggers that will set your thoughts back into their vicious circle. My advice would be to learn your main triggers and avoid them for the time being as much as possible. So no romantic chick-flick movies set in Paris! Then when you're feeling stronger expose yourself too them and try to develop a 'tolerance' towards them.
"The 'get over it' brigade can't possibly understand how debilitating this is ... but people like yourself - and similar posters I see from your other thread - can and that is amazingly useful."
I have found that most (but not all) men can empathise with this, but most women can't unless they've had direct experience of it or spent some time talking to people who have suffered from it whilst keeping an open mind.
"I am going to really try and take on board your advice. Even to the extent of getting a book on Tai Chi tomorrow!"
Great. Tai Chi you need a class, not a book! Same goes with the other similar activities: yoga, meditation etc. But these all are excellent ways to help yourself since they train your mind to gently focus on what you want it to and to let go of negative thoughts and emotions.
Good luck.
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 August 2011): From original poster:Thank you Yos. I really do appreciate your input on this. You're clearly a very intelligent and well informed person on this.Because this is my first relationship which, at 21, I realise is quite late I have beat myself up about things ... if only I'd gone to a mixed sex school and thefore understood girls; if only I'd had a girlfriend (or girlfriends!) earlier then I'd deal with this situation better etc. I've put my inexperience down to the reasons I'm feeling this way ... this maddening irrational terrible 'retrospective jealousy'.I've found the other post you gave a link to very useful. You are incredibly well informed and insightful and the way you write is an inspiration. I had not thought about this as an 'OCD' type afflication as I am not a 'compulsive' person and yet the traits and mind workings you describe are spot on.I do not consider my girlfriend a 'bad person' as such ... as you've said that is then a moral judgement I have no right to make ... it's trying to reconcile the facts with the person I (thought I) knew. I seem to have fallen into a trap of needing more and more information to deal with things; to try and see things from a different perspective.Because of where this happened - Paris - then this has even gone so far as imagery of that place (the frickin Eifel Tower for one which appears everywhere now it would seem!) then causing me almost physical nausea.The 'get over it' brigade can't possibly understand how debilitating this is ... but people like yourself - and similar posters I see from your other thread - can and that is amazingly useful.I am going to really try and take on board your advice. Even to the extent of getting a book on Tai Chi tomorrow!Many thanks.
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reader, Yos +, writes (26 August 2011):
"Perhaps there's also the subconscious thoughts that if she could run out on this other person who surely she must have loved if she was doing that with him then could she do it again".
I wouldn't be so sure she really loved him. I know it's probably easier to say that to yourself you don't have to ask "how could she have had sex with someone she didn't love?". Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say "she thought she loved him", but getting pregnant she realised she didn't. Love is complex and comes in many flavours and degrees of intensity.
But you have tapped into the most basic fear that triggers your current condition: that your partner may leave you for another man, or become pregnant by another man. This is something we all share at some level: accepting our fears is part if life. The best way to avoid this scenario is to become a great boyfriend, which starts with letting your girlfriend put her past behind her.
You might fine this article useful:
http://www.dearcupid.org/question/retrograde-jealousy.html
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2011): From orignal poster:
Many thanks for the replies. I'll keep a link to this in my 'Favourites' if I start to slip. It's difficult not to dwell on this sometimes - my 'fairytale' has kind of come crashing down in some ways! Perhaps there's also the subconscious thoughts that if she could run out on this other person who surely she must have loved if she was doing that with him then could she do it again
Anyways let's see how things go...
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reader, Gabrielle Stoker +, writes (25 August 2011):
 Yos says everything perfectly well. I'd only add normally such an act would lead one to question the person's decision-making capacity, however she seems to genuinely regret her actions and that is a positive thing.
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reader, Mr Clark +, writes (24 August 2011):
I agree with everything Yos said. He is probably one of the most knowledgable and helpful "aunts" on topics such as this.I don't think having answers to your questions would give you peace of mind, even if it were possible to get precise answers. Humans are complex, and their reasons for doing things may involve many factors. Someone could probably write a PhD thesis on why a person acts in some specific way. I've done things in the past that I can't really explain now. All I can say is that I was somewhat different person in different circumstances, and I've learned from my mistakes. It's quite probable that your girlfriend views her past as a big unpleasant mistake that she'd rather not think about. It's also quite possible that she's learned from it, and would never do the same thing again.Searching for an answer to your questions seems like it might be a misguided attempt to make the event go away. When I've had similar thoughts, I came to realize that I was trying to make the past disappear in some way. But, like Yos said, the past won't go away, no matter how hard you try to "solve" the problem. Certain types of thoughts are probably always going to bother you. One thing that's helped me some is to think about what I really want -the best possible relationship with my wife. I've become proactive in learning what it takes to be the best husband possible so I can achieve my goal. Whenever the nasty thoughts come, I try to replace them with thoughts about my goal and what steps I need to take to reach the goal. Think about what you really want and focus on doing what it takes to get there.
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reader, JustHelpinAgain  +, writes (24 August 2011):
Poor you. A lot of guys have been in those dark places, some get stuck there. This is not something that renders to rational analysis. I think the real problem is that you know your girlfriend the way she is now, not then, and you can't imagine why or how she could do what she did. The sad thing is that a lot of nice girls get taken advantage of by not so nice guys. Thats life I am afraid. The fact she clams up shows you she regrets what happened. Rubbing her face in it won't help. The sad thing is that probably she has lost the value or significance of intimacy, and the experience she had was not a loving one. If you love her then in a way you have to learn to forgive her for the torment you have, even though she didn't even know you then. If she had known she was going to meet you she probably would have had a bit more control on what she did, but nothing you can do about that now. Think of it like she crashed her car, you can't see the scars, but she is lucky to have your arms to hold her. The thoughts and images will diminish but always be there. Don't punish her for a mistake. Good luck. I've been in that dark hole, its up to you to decide if you want to stay there. Make your own good memories with her to force out the bad thoughts.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): i know how u feel given the fact that this is ur first relationship while she on her part has had not only a relationship but one which is painful. from my point of view she wants to be with you thats why she told you about her past.not everyone can open up and say a thing like that because just the mere thought of it slices very deep as if its reoccuring and you trying to know every detail about it is like rubbing it to her face and thats hurting.she opened up to you so be patient,if there's anything more to say she'll eventually tell u. if u love her,be with her because she needs all the love she can get but if u can't love her,let her be. stop working yourself up for no reasonbijou
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reader, Yos +, writes (24 August 2011):
You should probably stop 'discussing' this with her. It sounds like you have become obsessed with this, and being questioned by an obsessed person is very unpleasant.
"Why did she just run?"
She was away from home in a foreign country. She was probably petrified. Her natural instinct was to get to a 'safe place' as fast as possible. Sounds like she freaked out, which is fair enough under the circumstances. Many people would do the same.
"Why did she get intimate?"
Because she was attracted to him. Because she was in a romantic situation. Because she was 18, and most 18 year olds have sex.
Not using contraception wasn't wise, but it's easy to get carried away in the heat of the moment. Passion makes us foolish sometimes.
The situation and her reaction are quite normal. Her story is very human, and has happened nearly countless times before, and will again, and again.
But it's not surprising this is unpleasant information for you. You're in love with this girl, and the thought of her getting pregnant to another man is going to be very unwelcome. But you've become overly focussed on this: rather than letting it go you're bringing it up over and over in your head. Trying to find 'an answer' or 'a solution' or whatever.
The problem is, there is no solution out there that you can think your way towards.
All that happens is: the more you think about it, the more it hurts. The worse it gets.
Instead you have to stop thinking about it. Change the subject in your head, distract yourself, force yourself to think about something else. Anything else. This will reduce it's grip on you: meaning you think about it less and less. And as you do, the painful associations will fade too.
This means letting go of the judgments too. That takes a deliberate conscious decision. Can you decide to let this go, and move on? Make the decision, then stop trying to find meaning in it, and instead look to the future.
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