A
male
age
41-50,
*ohn721
writes:Ok here is my situation. My pregnant girlfriend has left me and is claiming that I verbally and sexually abused her. We had been together 8 months and she was 2 months pregnant when she left. She is 24 and I am 34. She has a four year old son from a previous relationship. Who was calling me daddy by the way. This will be my first child. She started having severe abdominal pains so we went to the hospital to find out what was going on. We found out then that she was pregnant. They didn't know what the cause of her pain was and said we should follow up with an OB. The first appointment we could get was nearly a month away. Her pain was getting worse and we made two more trips to the ER. Both times they said there was nothing they could do since she is pregnant. She was in a lot of pain all the time. This situation was causing strain on the relationship for a few different reasons. It was hard for me to deal with because I was worried about her and the baby and there didn't seem to be anything I could do about it. It was putting a negative spin on the pregnancy. There was very little talk about the positive things about the pregnancy after the first couple of weeks after we found out. It was just the fact that she felt so bad all the time. This was depressing to me and didn't know how we were going to deal with this if she was in pain like this for the next 8 months. There was also some things that were bothering me as to things that I was no longer getting from her. She always wanted to go to bed and our sex life became non existant. This was making me feel as if she didn't want to spend time with me and no longer found me attractive. I was trying to be understanding of her but I could not help the feelings I was having. I told her what I was feeling and asked her to show me in some way that she was still interested in me in a sexual way. I told her that I understood if she didn't feel like actually making love but I would like to be able to see that she still had those feelings for me. She continued to not show me any interest sexually and had very little response when I tried to be intimate with her. This hurt my feelings, frustrated me and made me mad. We also started arguing more. All in all it was a stressful time for both of us. Well one day I come home from work to find that her and all of her belongings were gone. She would not answer my phone calls or reply to my text messages. On the third day after leaving me her father called my mother and told her that my girlfriend was not going to talk to me because I verbally and sexually abused her and that is why she left me. Her father stated that she told him that I had pinned her against the shower wall, forced her to have sex with me and tore the shower curtain down in the process. NEVER HAPPENED. He also said that the reason she was pregnant was that I forced her to have sex with me. Every time we had sex it was with her consent. There were times that she didn't seem interested and that would upset me and she would change her mind but I never felt that I forced her to do anything. In those situations I would tell her that I didn't want her to do anything that she didn't want to do. She would say "trust me if I didn't want to, it wouldn't happen". As far as the verbal abuse. We had arguments where I would get mad and yell but I never called her names or was degrading to her in any way. I just don't understand what happened and why she is accusing me of these things. She always told me how much she loved me and wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. We had talked about and planned on getting married even before the pregnancy. She has been gone now for a month and still have not talked to her. She has communicated a little with me through text messages but won't discuss anything with me. She says that there is nothing to discuss about us. She truly seems to hate me and I don't know why. How can she go from loving me and wanting to be with me forever to not wanting to talk to me at all? We were going through a stressful time but I didn't think it was anything that we couldn't make it through. She would not allow me to go to the first appointment for the baby either, which tears me apart. I love her and our unborn child more than anything in the world. All I want is to be able to be with her and enjoy our pregnancy and raise our child together. I am also hearing that she is already seeing another guy. How does she go from loving me and wanting to be with me forever to seeing someone else so soon while carrying my child? I am completely heart broken and confused. Any advice or thoughts on my situation would be greatly appreciated.
View related questions:
sex life, text Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (22 March 2009): This is John again. I want to thank you for keeping in contact with me. I have now had two sessions with the counsilor. I am beginning to see her point of view and how she may have percieved things. I did not see it at the time but I do now. I sure never meant to hurt her in any way and I feel terrible about myself for the way I handled things. I just don't understand how I got so messed up when I had nothing but the best of intentions. I have not told her anything about the counsiling yet. I don't know how to tell her and make her beleive that it's not just a ploy to get her back. I mean ultimately that is what I want of course, but I truely do want to understand things and work on and fix the issues that I have. I really only wanted to make her happy and still do. As far as contact with her goes. She has sent me a few text messages. Most of these have been about the fact that she feels that I was neglecting her son because I didn't play with him. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong with her son either. I guesse I didn't play with him a whole lot but it wasn't that I had anything against him. I just have never been a father and don't really know how or what to do with a 4yr. old. I really do love him though. I really don't know how to explain what I mean about her son. I do love him and was trying to be involved with him. I got up every morning and went along to take him to school and pick him up. She stated that I lied to him because I told him I would help him put a train track that we bought him for chrismas together and her and her friend ended up doing it. There was a few times that he asked me to help him and I didn't feel like it at the time or had other things going on. I wasn't trying to hurt anyones feelings though. As far as playing with him. I did play some video games with him sometimes. But to actually get down on the floor and play with trains or whatever no I didn't do that. Not because I didn't want anything to do with him it was just not something that I thought of. She never played with him much either at least not while I was around. She also stated that she should not have had to tell me to play with him and that she would bet that two of my friends didn't have to be told to play with their kids. I guesse that maybe that is true, but they have been a part of their kids lives from day one. They have had their kids whole lives to crate a bond with them. I had only been in his life for 7 months. Does what I'm saying about this make sense or am I totally wrong on this subject too?
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 March 2009):
 Hi John, sorry, your answers don't come up as follow ups, so unless we check back here, we miss that you've posted.
So you've had your first meeting with the counselor. How did it go? I hope it was useful for you.
Have you had any contact with her? And does she know that you're seeing a counselor? Let her know that you are working on it, that you want to understand your behavior and how you came across to her and how it affected the relationship.
You sound like you're really trying to understand how you got to this place in your life and I think once you do that, you can start working on a plan to repair things. The thing that you'll find difficult to overcome is that women leaving abusive relationships are warned not to take him back; that's pretty universal, so my guess is that she has heard this. If she were the one writing in, she'd be told not to reconcile until he'd been through counseling and anger management. So you have a path to follow, I hope with the counselor's help and there's nothing for it but to put one foot in front of the other and try to move along in the journey.
Let us know how things went with the counselor.
All the best.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (18 March 2009):
 I wish you the best with the counseling. But, as I stated before, if your unwilling to see her view of the situation, accept it as how she felt, then it will get you no where and she will see right through it as just another act to get her back...for now. You have some serious issues, m'dear. You've got to come to terms with that and realize your not the "victim" here. If you two don't work out, continue with the counseling. It will only better you.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (13 March 2009): John agian. Anyone still there? I have my first appointment with a counselor tomarrow. I still have not heard anything more from her. This is tearing me apart.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (11 March 2009): This is John. Tisha, It is funny that you have suggested that I seek counciling as I have been thinking about and discussing that with my family. I truely do want to understand things better. Also I do believe that I need to work on some things for myself. One specific thing is anger management. I don't get violent when I get mad but I do have a tendency to raise my voice and think that I also tend to over react to things. Another thing is that I believe that I may have some self asteem problems and I am kind of insecure with myself. I think that my insecurities have a lot to do with my situation here. I think that is the reason that I took it personaly when she wanted to go to bed and was not showing me any interest sexually. It just made me feel like she was upset with me for some reason. I thought that since she wasn't showing me that attention that I must have done something wrong.As far as the way she is communicating with me,(only through text messaging)goes. That seems to be how she handles things when there is a conflict. I have not mentioned this before but this is not the first time she has left me. Each time it was the same thing. At first she would not communicate with me at all. Then through texting and then finally actually talking on the phone. The other times we were back together within a day or two. Also just like this time I never seen her leaving coming. She has a problem talking about her true feelings. Each time she left before she would finally tell me after she had already left what was bothering her. In each case if she would have talked to me about what she was feeling we could have worked it out without her ever leaving. I think that this is true in this current case as well. I had no idea that I was making her feel as if I was forcing her to have sex with me. I believe that if she would have talked to me about how what I was doing was making her feel I would have been able to put an end to my behavior. Don't get me wrong, I am in know way trying to put all the blame on her. I am very willing to accept my responsibility in this. I just think that it would have been much easier for the both of us to deal with and I believe avoided this situation. As far as how she became pregnant. It is something that we had talked about and decided that we were not going to try to prevent it but was not neccesarily trying to concieve either. We had decided that we wanted to have children together but was not really sure when the right time would be. Basically we both agreed that we would handle it this way and leave it up to fate. If it was meant to be it would be. I hope I explained that in a way that makes sense. I did respond to her about baby names but not soon enough I guesse. She sent me a text asking why if I wanted to be involved in the kids life why hadn't I replied to the text when she asked me about it. I explained to her that I was trying to come up with a name that I really liked before I did and that I was having a hard time coming up with anything, wich is the truth. I didn't however say anything about my feelings about not liking the fact that we were talking about this through text messaging in an attempt to avoid conflict. I did suggest a few names and she did not say what she thought of them at all. She did want to know if I was going to be willing to by the baby a swing or anything else to have there at her parents house. I replied that I wanted to provide for the baby in any way that I could. I also made it known agian that I didn't want it to be this way at all. I told her that I wanted us to raise our child together in the same house. She gave no reply to that at all. This was yesterday. I sent her a message today asking what she thought about the names I suggested, how she was feeling, and if she had been to the 2nd dr appointment for the baby yet. No reply to that one either. Well I guesse that is all for tonight. Hope you and others with continue to talk and give me your thoughts and advice.
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (10 March 2009):
John, sorry I haven't been able to followup for a few days here. I just wanted to say that I thought Tomas's advice was brilliant. I wish I could be as articulate as he manages to be.
So she has made some contact, which is good. She still doesn't want to talk, which is bad.
I think your best bet to move things along here is to demonstrate in real terms that you are working to understand things--her side of the story and your side--and come to some resolution or action plan for yourself. I really want to encourage you to see a counselor, preferably one with experience in couples counseling, and discuss this with him or her. You can let her know that you're doing this, and perhaps after a few visits to the counselor, you and the counselor can determine if it would be appropriate to invite her to a session.
I don't see how it could hurt, and I think there are more than one potential positive results from this for you. The thing about the way she's been communicating with you; I think that is how a battered women's center would advise a woman to leave the situation. And your trying to get her to speak with you would be what she'd have been warned against. That's what makes me believe she's really serious about this and her perception of the situation is that it is a real problem for her.
So if you want to be taken seriously here, you need to show you are working on yourself. Hence my advice to see a counselor, and discuss your situation and history with him/her. The counselor could also act as an intermediary for you with her, I think. You'd have to discuss that with the counselor.
I have one more question that's been nagging at me here. How is it that she became pregnant? Was it failed birth control or were you trying to have a child together?
So get that counselor and show a very serious effort to work things out.
Good luck.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (9 March 2009): dont strategize so much. Do what you feel in your gut. Women can tell when your scheming for the right words. You have to be true to yourself if you want this to work. If you just do what you feel is right, she will respond accordingly.
I cant stress enough how important it is for communication and transparency sake to just be yourself here.
Dont overthink the situation. If it feels wrong to text her dont. If it feels right do. Tell her honestly how you feel.
Theres no point in trying to have a relationship with a woman who doesnt like you.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (9 March 2009): This is John. I have not yer replied to her about the baby names. I just have not been able to come up with anything that I like. I would like to have some suggestions to offer when I do reply, but I don't want to wait to long to reply and give the impression that I don't care about the baby name. What should I do? Maybe just simply reply that I appreciate her sharing the name she was thinking about and asking for my suggestions and that I have not come up with anything yet? There is also that issue of the fact that I hate that we are talking about our unborn childs name through text messages. Should I state my opinion and feelings on that or just keep it to myself? I'm sure not trying to get into any kind of confrontation with her.
...............................
A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (9 March 2009):
If she is asking you for suggestions about baby names, I would treat it as a chance to have some normalcy in the relationship. Remember that for a relationship to work, you need to have a lot of good interactions for each negative one.
So I would consider this an opportunity to have a positive interaction with her, and suggest some names. Maybe look up the meanings of the names you like and share that as well. Don't treat it as an "everything's fine" signal, but don't ignore it or wait a long time to respond.
If that exchange happens respectfully, with restraint and affection and caring, then you will probably get another such chance in time. That's the step by step thing. Take the step, see where it leads.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
John, you may never cross that road. You messed up big time. Just learn from it and never treat another girl that way.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): John here. Look I understand now that I was very wrong in some of the things I done. At the time I didn't see it as me doing anything wrong, but now I can see how she could have taken it that I was forcing her to have sex with me. That was definately not my intentions. I just want to be able to correct my mistakes and earn her love for me back.
...............................
A
male
reader, enjoimx +, writes (8 March 2009):
 Ok all of you posters are dead wrong!Please understand the nature of people....This woman, as touching as it may be that she has a baby in her belly (wow a baby justifies all of her meanness right?...not!!!) never liked John very much. As the authors of a very popular book would say, "She just wasnt that into him."Yes thats right folks...we have a case here where the woman was not into John...she used him and lied to him, and forced john to feel bad about his actions. Nowhere in this thread of posts does John admit to doing anything other than "Own HIS FEELINGS" which is perfectly acceptable. John has been voicing his feelings (sometimes maybe yelling them....which i am sure was not nice but AbUSE??? CMON!!!)John has been honest from the start here....you guys are reading into this situation soooo much and speaking on soo many taboos about abuse and what not! I call BS. I believe John has the best interest of his ex-GF and child in mind. I belive he wants her soo badly, but she "Just isnt that into him" Thats why I am saying MOVE ON JOHNN...this woman has LOW self esteem and is not your ideal mate. As much as you love her and wish that she loves you, she doesnt. She doesnt know what she wants in a mate at this point...she is confused. Please support your child as best as possible. Go through the courts at this point, she is leaving you no other option since she REFUSES to communicate with you (how RUDE). Do not let her control your happiness. You deserve better. Good luck, and email me personally if you want more advice. These women saying you are abusing her are sadly mistaken.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): Me again. How do I get her to talk to me again? She has recently sent me a text message with a suggestion for a name if the child is a girl. She also said that she was not sure about a name for a boy and asked me for suggestions. I have not replied to that yet for a couple of reasons. I really havn't come up with anything that I really like and two that I hate that we are in a situation where we are talking about the name of our unborn child through text messaging rather than sitting her together discussing it. I want this to all work out more than I have ever wanted anything in my life. I hope that some day hopefully soon she will realize that I truely do love her and find it in her heart to forgive me. I never meant to hurt her in any way. She truely is everything to me and would never have done anything to intentionaly hurt her. My love for her is true and genuine and I believe that her love for me is genuine as well. At least it was. I also wish that she would have talked to me about how she was feeling. She gave me the impression that she was happy and that everything would be fine. She talked like she planned on being with me forever right until the end. We were discussing things such as how soon we would want to have more kids after the birth of this child. The way she was talking it made me believe that she was planning on being with me forever. She truely seemed to be thinking about and planning for a lifetime together.
...............................
A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (8 March 2009):
John,
Just remembered one other factor. The whole shower scene. Depending on how things go, at some point you are going to be talking to her father again.
My counsel would be, unless and until she says she wants you in her life, you don't bring it up with her Dad. If she decides you are back in ... here's where the details probably matter ... I'd consider telling Dad something like "I know Sally told you I physically forced her to have sex with me, and I told you that I didn't. What I did was put emotional pressure on her constantly, until she had sex with me. I would have never pushed myself on her physically, but I understand now that emotionally I was doing the same thing, and it felt the same to her, and that's not going to happen again."
I don't know. Talk to her about it first, or to him... I have to assume for arguments sake that the shower scene didn't happen, but she tried to convey what she thought was the essence of the problem, while embarrassed or self-loathing about her complicity. If so, asking her to go tell her Dad her story was "embellished" seems ungenerous. If he hears from you, and wants to talk to daughter, he can always do so, out of your earshot. But if you say nothing, well imagine how you would feel if your daughter got back together with someone you thought had raped her. I don't see any way to get a normal life back if grandpa thinks the son-in-law a monster.
But one thing at a time. If she wants you back, and her Dad can see that you aren't putting any pressure on her, then he'll likely be more open down the road to revisiting his opinions of you.
...............................
A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (8 March 2009):
John,
I'd think your best chance is a combination of (1) demonstrating that you understand and can articulate something important that she doesn't think you understand. This gives her an upside. And, (2) showing that you have restraint and can self-soothe, taking care of your own pain without dumping it on her. This limits her downside.
As to what you understand, I think you need to articulate that you understand you were being selfish, putting your own needs first. That you weren't sensitive to how it made her feel. That you weren't giving her credit for how much she was trying, and that you can see how that must have made her feel like crap. That by pressing her for sex so much, it must have felt like a constant threat, if not of physical or verbal abuse, then at least of losing the relationship. And that it must have been awful for her to feel that way, especially when carrying a child of that relationship, and in pain, and needing support. That you understand these things now, and if you had it to do over, you would do everything differently.
And as to your new-found restraint, that you still love her very much, and want to spend the rest of your life with her and your child. That you are willing to work and learn and take things at her pace, and trust her judgements when she asks you to back off. But that you can see how all the pressure you put her under may have worn away all the love she ever had for you. And though you want to be with her as a partner and family, you now understand that what she wants has to be your first priority. And she might not want you. And you are willing to be there if she wants you, for herself or your child, and take whatever she feels she can give, and not push her for more.
You have learned, you understand now, you hope it isn't too late, but you will respect her decision if it is.
And then you need to expect that it is too late, not because we know it is (maybe, maybe not), but because - if it were me - I would test you to see how you respond to not getting your way. With love, respect, and willingness to bear the grief, or with self-pity, impatience, and passive-aggression.
Whether it is too late for this relationship or not, you've learned something about women, and sex, and expectations in relationships. And both you and she will be imperfect either way, so avoid the natural tendency to put her mentally on a pedestal or a witness stand. We all try to be perfect, we screw up, and we hope we pour enough good into our relationships to overcome the pain we sometimes cause.
Good luck.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): Hello john, I would agree with enjoimx. You need to move on because she is not good enough for you. I can see that you love her and you would naturally love your baby. But your love for her is blinding you from seeing who she really is. A wife/girlfriend accusing her husband/boyfriend of sexual abuse when it didnt happen is worse than any sexual abuse. I wouldnt want to have to do anything with such a person again. Dont let her guilt trip you. You didnt abuse her at all. Mext time fine someone closer to your age who will possibly be more mature than this girl. Good luck.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): John again. I see in hindsight that I was wrong. How can I make things right with her? I truely do love her and would like very much to spend the rest of my life with her.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
I very much agree on that, Tomas. Every part. Good job. ;-)
...............................
A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (8 March 2009):
It sounds like a bad situation. Basically she was feeling that it was sex or lose you, and she didn't want sex, but she didn't want to lose you. So she was willing to have sex to keep you (figured you recognized this consciously or subconsciously).
At the point you are sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Because if you go ahead with sex, it's basically saying "yes you do need to have sex with me to keep me, and I accept your sacrifice." And she will resent you for that, and will feel used.
If you do not go ahead, after raising the stakes so high, she will feel it is a rejection of the relationship itself.
Basically you've gotten maneuvered into a situation like this: you both love each other, but your love is conditional on some pain on her part. She has to choose you or the pain. Each time she submits to the pain, she resents you more, but does so out of some simultaneous love (until it is eroded away). When you offer to drop the painful requirement, it would feel something like "you make me go through with this, and degrade myself (as unwanted sex would make her feel), and *now* you are going to get all noble and be the good guy?
It's a vicious cycle.
What's the solution?
Well on one level, this is why significant libido mismatches are so tough. But in this case, where you have reason to believe the mismatch may be temporary, you explain (once) that you are feeling lonely and some distance from her, and then you basically keep it to yourself from then on unless she asks. And if she asks, you soft-pedal it ("it's tough but I'm managing"), and you only bring it up if you feel it is untenable (as in you are feeling like you want out of the relationship). If she really wants to know exactly how you feel, the burden is on her to press the question. Remember this is the case where you have reason to believe it will pass.
The point is, she probably knows you are feeling horny and lonely. She may feel worried and depressed about it. Reminding her just makes her feel worse. You have to at all cost try to avoid the situation where you are point-blank asking her for sex, because at that point there is no win. Any sex, however much it temporarily raises your self-esteem and makes you feel closer, may draw down the balance of trust in the relationship.
Again the pregnancy complicates this. Normally if you discover a serious and ongoing libido mismatch, you'd do better to move on. But once you have kids, for all you know she may have post-partum depression and not want to be touched for a year. That possibility will scare her, too. Raising children, jobs, these things may impact her libido or yours. She wants to know that, if worse comes to worse, you will find a way to deal with it and still love her and put her first.
When you essentially demand and accept unwanted sex as a condition for being in the relationship, it is really the trust is screwed.
You might wonder, "But what if she really was willing to try to enjoy sex, even when she didn't really want it?"
In that case, she likely wouldn't have told you she didn't want it. She'd just suck it up.
Once she tells you she doesn't, she has already decided. Pushing it any further is tacitly negotiating about the relationship.
=======
That's my understanding, at least. Others, feel free to correct.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): No head game. Just truely didn't want her to do anything she didn't want to.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
Well, that would piss any normal, sane human being off. More than likely felt like one big head game: "come on! Please! Your my girlfriend! I need it!" That goes on and on and on and on. Then she *finally* caves and says fine; just do it, just to hear, "well if you don't want too..." That would feel like the worlds biggest head game and would piss anyone off.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
*is wishing Tomas would take John under his wing and be his mentor* :-)
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): John again. In those situations when she agreed to sex after saying no initially I would tell her that I didn't want her to do anything that she didn't want to do. If I said that I didn't want to make love because of that reason she would get very upset.
...............................
A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (8 March 2009):
John,
Having just now read your update, I think the thing you say that probably gets most under the skins of some (and I've been in this situation so I know), is your belief that even if they don't feel like it, partners in some sense "owe" it to one another to try to meet their needs.
The examples you cited about saying she loved you and wished she felt like sexual intimacy, or wanting to be touched (especially if you mean that in a non-sexual way), strike me as very reasonable. And if you asked for those things specifically, and were turned down, either she was being unreasonable or things had already gotten to a very bad place.
But I think most people would say that, especially in the case of a difficult pregnancy, your wants would come a distant second, and that if as a result you felt lonely and depressed, then your job was to feel lonely and depressed (after expressing those feelings to your partner once maybe twice). What she owes you is listening to you, but not doing anything. And if that isn't good enough, the answer is not pressuring, but living with it or leaving. Nothing good comes from the pressure.
I'd also acknowledge that folks here are making a lot of assumptions - perhaps rightly - from your description, and thus some of this may be off. But I feel confident in saying that either you were unreasonable in your expectations of her taking care of you during her pregnancy, or her feelings for you were already deeply eroded by that time (perhaps due to previous pressure, or perhaps something totally unrelated).
In any event, for future reference, there's nothing wrong with asking for what you want; that's healthy. The trick is in handling answers you don't like.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
John, you said yourself that you would yell and scream, and what not. Have you ever thought that maybe she stopped speaking up because she just didn't want to hear you yell and scream?
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
Thank you, Tomas. That was very wise. I'm glad a man finally said something...
I agree with him. If she said no, and made it clear that she didn't want sex but you pressured her into giving it up, and you took it knowing she didn't want it, that abuse. I actually see it as a more sever form of abuse...rape.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
Thank you, Tomas. That was very wise. I'm glad a man finally said something...
I agree with him. If she said no, and made it clear that she didn't want sex but you pressured her into giving it up, and you took it knowing she didn't want it, that abuse. I actually see it as a more sever form of abuse...rape.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): This is John again. No my needs are not more important than hers. I asked her what she needed and she would not tell me anything. She said that she understood my feelings and when asked if there was anything that she needed me to do different she would tell me that there wasn't. Maybe it should have been obvious to me that I was acting inapropriate but when your feelings get involved sometimes you don't think right. If she would have talked to me about how I was making her feel I definately would have done something to change it. I truely do love her and never meant to hurt her in any way. It makes me feel horrible to think that I have hurt her. All I ever wanted was to make her happy.
...............................
A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (8 March 2009):
Let me try to find a helpful middle ground.
Clearly in any relationship there are going to be times where both people are not on the same page sexually. A pregnancy, especially one with difficulties, is one of these.
Also having a child, in general, can put a lot of stress on a relationship, as energy and attention get divided among one more person.
Thus any healthy relationship is going to have to find ways to handle mismatches in libido.
The way you handle this is to talk about it, and where the mismatch seems temporary, both parties do their best to accommodate it. The more ground you give, the more you generally get.
At the same time, there are also permanent mismatches in libido, which are on this board almost every day. People sometime end up with partners who want much more or much less sex than they do. If one wants it daily, and one monthly, and meeting in the middle weekly makes both miserable, then the relationship is unlikely to last.
In this case, too, the way you handle it is to talk, and try to work out something that you can both live happily with, and failing that you part respectfully.
What you don't do (whether for ethical or practical reasons) is go from talking about your feelings, to letting your frustration turn into arguments and pressure. You may view this as emphasizing the seriousness of the problem, and others here may judge you poorly for considering it a serious problem in the circumstances. Regardless, once you cease to treat it as a shared relationship problem that you work on with her, and start treating it as her problem that she needs to fix for you, you enter an adversarial stance. Mix that with sex, and there is the potential for what some will consider abuse, and what some will consider rape.
Whether you consider it either isn't relevant. Your girlfriend apparently does, and she is not to be alone. You may argue about the accuracy of some of the details of her account, but that misses the bigger picture. She felt pressured into having sex that she did not want to have. And she views you as one willing to have sex with her when she believes you knew she didn't want it.
If you knew that she did not want to have sex, and chose to keep the pressure on (even if in your view for the survival of the relationship), and accepted sex in that context, you may have broken a critical bond of trust and care.
The right move would have been to talk, explain if the relationship wasn't viable for you, try to find an amicable middle ground, and failing that to tell her you couldn't remain in that kind of relationship.
The child is a major complication, and the reason we council birth control around here. Especially with someone you've known 6 months.
Regardless of the child, intolerable sexual mismatches rarely end well in any event. They end better when you give someone a choice without pressure, and respect that choice, and act accordingly.
One more way to put it: we are all entitled to our wants, however unflattering they are. We're entitled to ask for them. We aren't entitled to always get them. When we don't get them, we have a choice to accept that and act accordingly, to ask again, or to try to take what we want.
Accepting is obviously okay. Taking is obviously not. Your situation seems to be the middle one - asking again. The difference of opinion you've seen in these answers reflects what are appropriate ways to ask.
If you take nothing else from this, recognize that many people consider some ways of asking to be abusive, whether physical force or name-calling is involved. You best bet is to minimize the repeated asking, do it only lovingly, and watch out for aggressive or passive-aggressive pressure.
Hopefully that will avoid a future repeat of this situation for you and your partner(s).
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
What just frustrates me, John, is that you just...don't...get...it.
She was in the early stages of pregnancy.
She was in HORRIBLE, TRIMENDOUS PAIN, and you are actually pushing her, and bullying for sex or *anything* of that nature?
Because your needs are FAR more important than her needs right now, right? The woman who is carrying your first born is tired, sick, hormonal, AND in constant pain, but sh*t, you need a release and she's your girlfriend and she has "duties", so she should just suck it up and spread 'em, right?
You are the most heartless, cruel, cold, callous, pompous jerk I have met in years! (And trust me. THATS BAD!)
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2009): I am the original asker of this question but for some reason can not log in to my account. I was being completely honest with her at all times. I was just telling her what my feelings were and asking her what hers were so we could try to make things better for the both of us. All she would tell me is that she was happy and the only thing that was wrong was that she was in pain. When I would ask her if I was wrong for having the feelings I was and if I was making things bad between us she would tell me that I wasnt and everything was fine. It seemed to me that there was something wrong because of the lack of interest in me. I wanted her to talk to me and tell me what she was feeling but she didn't have much to say. That worried me because she has shown issues with expressing her feelings in the past and was afraid that something was going on that she was not telling me about. I only wanted to try to work together to help us both in a stressful time we were going through. How is it wrong for me to be honest about my feelings and ask for some things to help me to deal with the situation? It just flustrated me that she would not even try to give me the things I was asking for. The way I look at things is that if you are feeling something you should share it with your partner and give them the opportunity to give you what you feel you are missing. This of course works both ways. How am I to know that I am doing anything that is making her unhappy if she doesn't tell me and give me the opportunity to give her what she was needing. I probably was not as understanding as I should have been but it was upsetting me that she was not giving me the things I was asking for. All I was asking for was for her to show me in some way that she was still interested in me sexually. Just simple things like telling me that she wished that she felt better and that we could make love. Touching me occasionaly. Just something to show me that the attraction was still there. I also definately associate sex with love. When she was not showing me intrest it was making me feel that something was wrong. I do understand that I should have handled some things differently but my reactions were simply because my feelings were being hurt. I am a very sensative and I think maybe needy guy. Bottom line is that I love this girl with all of my heart and soul and was doing nothing but trying to help us both through a stressful time. She would tell me that there wasn't anything wrong and that I shouldn't take things so personal. Well I understood that in a logical sense but was still having the feelings I was and could not help them. What I was doing was trying to tell her what I needed from her to help me not to take things so personal. I don't understand how I am wrong for that. I want for us to be able to be together and have the life that we had planned to have together. I really truely don't understand how things turned out like this and hope that there is something that will bring us back together.
...............................
A
female
reader, MommyOfOne +, writes (8 March 2009):
Omg! *claps loudly at Tisha's response* that was really, really great to read... I was reading this and thinking the entire time that this sounded SO much like an abusive relationship I was in when I was 17 and 18...
Look, I'm gunna be honest here. How you treated her does not just boarder on abuse, it *was* abuse. I have nothing to say that Tisha has not said already. So, I will not bother typing what has already been typed. Somebody else already said every work I would have said... You have deeply rooted issues, and need help. You will never see it as abuse. So, all in all, seeking help would be pointless. My ex was EXACTLY like you, m'dear. And I want you to know from someones stand point who has been where your ex has, it has lasting, LASTING effects on those women. What's horrible, is some men truly don't believe that pressuring their partners into sex when they initially say NO, is rape. If she says no, and you keep pushing, and she still says no, but you KEEP pushing because she's your partner, and BY GOD you have "needs", and she finally caves unwillingly, not wanting it, having said no but been bullied into spreading her legs...GUESS WHAT?! That's rape! Someone probably got through to her. And thank god for that. No woman deserves to be bullied for sex. Its wrong. Its rape and sexual abuse. And even worse, it causes psychological damage.
Reading this sickened me. Thank you Tisha for your response!
...............................
A
male
reader, enjoimx +, writes (8 March 2009):
Wow I am answering again after reading the last answer again!Your behavior was not abusive as long as you were being honest with her at all times. She took it the wrong way, simple as that. I am sorry you are getting mixed ideas here from different people, but you need to read about healthy relationships to see how they work. You were in a very unhealthy relationship, it WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. You were being yourself, and she was essentially LYING to you, saying that she liked you for who you are, which she didnt. She didnt like you trying to have sex with her (which by the way is natural and very satisfying to both partners of a healthy relationship) and she didnt like your behavior and personality. But she used you for validation and in order to make her happy. I am sorry she put that huge burden on you. Good luck, and cut it off from her and move on as soon as possible.
...............................
A
male
reader, enjoimx +, writes (8 March 2009):
Wow I disagree with both answers here! I have done extensive research on relationships, love, freedom, being alone, growth, pyschology etc. I dont believe that you abused her at all!I believe she was relying on you for her happiness, and you were relying on her for your happiness. When you each failed to make the other happy, and failed to validate each other, the relationship deteriorated. Realize that you are not responsible for another person's unhappiness, as much as some people (including some pyschologists) want you to believe that. A person has the choice to either like you for who you are or not, and it sounds like she liked you for what she wanted you to be, which who knows what that is...it doesnt matter. In her immaturity, she began accusing you of hurting her, despite the fact that you were being honest and doing everything you could to "make her happy." Well here is the kicker: You cannot make her happy. Nobody can. Only she can make herself happy, and only you can make yourself happy. She sounds very insecure and immature, as well as unsure of herself and what she likes in a human being. Sorry this relationship didnt work out. I would recomend moving on quickly. Its going to be compicated withg a child, and i cannot offer any advice on how to move on when a child is involved, because it requires constant contact wbetween you and her.Life is complicated. Ive been reading a book called "Broken Open" and it has been giving me much comfort and wisdom. Consider yourself free of an immature soul though, and pray that your child is raised in a healthy home.
...............................
A
female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (8 March 2009):
I don't know quite what to say here, John. I have a feeling that your behavior was more toward abusive than caring here in some situations. I think your perception of how thing were going in the relationship were clearly different from hers.
Let me point out a couple of red flags that popped up for me here.
One is how short a time you two were together. Eight months, and after only six months, she was pregnant. That's fast for a lot of people. When did you two move in together?
Another red flag, and this is the big one, is that she was in pain, from what you wrote, in continuous pain, and worried. She was experiencing fatigue, which is a common symptom in pregnancy, and wanted to go to bed all time. This is where you lost me. You took this personally. You decided she was not showing you enough attention and specifically, she was not being sexual with you. The subtext of one of your comments, that if she didn't feel like making love, that was okay, but she still had to show sexual feelings for you. What I hear there is you wanted a blow job.
She's only been pregnant a month, she's in continuous pain, and you are upset because she doesn't want to have sex with you. Sorry, man, that's selfish beyond the pale. Yes, you had these feelings of resentment and anger for not having sex. You know what? A sensitive caring man would have sucked it up and just dealt with it himself. He would have looked at this woman, who was in pain and tired and pregnant and worried and left her alone.
You did not, you pestered her for sexual activity. If that's not abuse, well, it's certainly pushing the envelope. Your feelings were more important than hers here.
So the next clue that you could be perceived as pushy, if not outright abusive, is that little tidbit where you said there were times when she didn't seem interested and that you got upset. Um, and then she would suddenly change her mind? Something's wrong there. If she said no from time to time, most men let it slide. She has a 4 year old, she could be exhausted from chasing him around all day, she might just not be in the mood. But you didn't like 'no' as an answer, or that she didn't seem interested, so you would get upset. I'll bet that over time, this just wore her out and made her unhappy. I'm not getting a whole from you about what her feelings were at the time. I don't think you knew or really cared all that much. Your feelings took precedence over everything.
So how often did you get angry and yell? Once a month? Once a week? Every couple of days? Every day? I think you scared the crap out of her and over time, it just wasn't getting better.
Rereading what you wrote, it's all about you. You feel neglected, you want to be sexually desired and satisfied whenever you feel like it, you yell when you're upset. You feel this, you want that.
What did she want? What did she feel? Did you listen? Did you ever threaten her verbally? Did you punch walls or throw things?
There's an article I want you to read, because it sounds like you might have some of the characteristics. http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/relationships/safe-your-relationship-19917.htm
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=171
If she is experiencing your anger and upset often, your sexual demands despite her abdominal pain, and the yelling, well then, yes, I think she could make the claim that you were being abusive.
I'm sorry she felt the need to leave, and to only have contact indirectly. But I think that you actually need to take a good long look at your actions, your attitude and recognize that you have a problem.
Until you recognize this problem and get help for it, I don't hold out much hope for you to reconcile with her.
(I expect you are very angry with me right now, for telling you essentially that I think your behavior could be considered abusive. But please try to listen a bit longer.)
I think that you need to seek some professional help to discuss this relationship and your behavior in it. If you are serious about wanting another chance with her, I think it's just about your only hope of demonstrating to her and her family that you recognize something is wrong. At the very least it'll give you some help getting through the split, if you are having trouble coping and understanding.
Good luck as you tackle this issue. I do hope things turn out for the best.
...............................
A
female
reader, Caucasian Asian +, writes (8 March 2009):
 I guess the first thing I would wonder is, why are you with someone so many years younger than you? That alone is a strain on a relationship. I know this by experience. There were not too many items we were compatible with each other.
In my relationship with my ex-husband (11 years older), I noticed how different he treated me than peers of his own age. I know he did not intend to treat me that way, but there is a whole psychological process happening. He tended to treat me more as a "Father" figure and an "Authoritarian" on everything than a lover. Even though you did not intend to be domineering, sometimes it comes across like it (speaking as the younger woman).
The SEX thing! Let me put a disclaimer in first: This is not ALL men when referring to "men". Men have a tendency to relate sex as affection. These things are two different things. Men relate their self confidence as the ability to pleasure the other person. In my experiences, when a woman touches a man physically (i.e. touch a mans arms, shoulder, leg, or rub their backs), they tend relate this touch as a invitation for sex. It is not necessarily an invitation for sex but merely a form of affection.
Here is where some of the miss communication comes in. I want to touch my man to show him some affection but then it leads to me fighting off his sexual advances. After a while I just stop touching him, and then he is irritated that I don't touch him. Now if a woman can touch a man with out him trying to jump her bones every time, then life would be better.
From you directly, "There were times that she didn't seem interested and that would upset me and she would change her mind but I never felt that I forced her to do anything."
Of course you never felt that you forced her, but you had to beg and plead for it. Then after you wear her down until she said, "yes" it is ok? So she gave you pity sex! Does that make you feel better? I have been there and done that. I would say, "no" at first but then give in because it was easier to say, "yes" then to hear men wallow in their sorrows of how us women don't love them?
Being intimate in men's opinion is different than women's opinion. You could have just as easily said to her that you would lay in bed with her and talked when she wanted to go to bed. Telling her of stories of your childhood is intimate. Having her tell you her favorite dream is quite intimate. Telling her what you thought of her when you first met her is intimate. Tell her the day when you realized that you were madly in love with her. Now that is intimate. Rubbing her back when you talked to her that is intimate.
If you really want her to talk to you again, tell her those things that I mentioned above. Tell her how you felt and what you were thinking when you first saw her. Tell her how scared you were when you went on your first date. Tell her she does not have to respond to you unless she wants. Remind her of the day when you told her that you loved her.
I am sorry if I sounded harsh on my response. But I hope things go better for you.
...............................
A
male
reader, john721 +, writes (8 March 2009):
john721 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOh and what about this abuse thing? Does she really believe that I abused her? I really don't believe that I did.
...............................
A
male
reader, john721 +, writes (8 March 2009):
john721 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI don't have any reason to believe that the child is not mine.
...............................
|
