A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:This is complex - and difficult to write about succinctly...I'll give it a go! My husband had a year long affair. He tells me he tried to "end it" many times prior to me finding out - but felt guilty and like he owed the OW something. To make matters worse the OW fell pregnant with his child (something both my husband and I feel was not an accident). She is 35yrs old and says she has always wanted a child (biological clock ticking etc) - she told him she would keep the baby and raise it on her own with no expectations from him at all- this was unless he left me and then she would agree to an abortion and they would have a child together when it would "look better". My husband says he never intended to seperate from me.My husband has asked for a second chance and we are both trying to heal and move forward. However - this baby is due to be born any day and the OW continues to try and contact my husband to ask him to "acknowledge her" and "see her belly" and "feel the baby moving" etc. She tells him she feels abandoned by him. He is being very transparent with me and has told her he does not want contact with her. I believe that he is no longer engaging in these guilt tripping conversations with her. The OW has been given two options - 1. Leave us alone and raise the child herself - not knowing who it's father is and how it was conceived (he suggested she make up something like a one night stand or donor etc)or 2. Let the child know it's father as part of his family - so WE have the child with us part of the time, tell our families what has happened, try to incorporate the baby into our family. My husband has made it clear to the OW he will not be involved with the child seperate from me (she was hoping he would just have a little family with her on the side!!!).I guess my question is - do you think the later option can work/is a good idea? I am having doubts. I worry that that will mean this woman is able to "play games" with us for years to come. The more I think about it the more I think the best solution is for us to have no contact at all. Should my husband just pay maintinance and that's it? The problem is my husband and I BOTH feel so bad for this child...how will he/she feel if they know the circumstances and that their father hasn't wanted contact? This is such a mess!! I am also very afraid that my son (who is only 14 months old now) will be hurt.Thoughts?
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear Anon of March 4th, Firstly I am very sorry to read of your situation, it saddens me that someone else has experienced such pain - unfortunately I think things like this happen far more than I ever realised! It has been quite a long time since I used this site and alot has happened since I wrote this question/post. There have been more ups and downs but on the whole I am really happy to report that I am doing great. My husband and I are still together, in fact we have just welcomed our second child into our family - something I never would have even thought about a year and a half ago. It has taken alot of hard work to get to a place where we felt we could do that. One of the things I think helped enormously was seeing a couples therapist - we both went along and participated openly and honestly and the outcomes from that have been amazing - we have gained insights into ourselves and each other and that is helping in how we function as a couple today. I also talked with a psychologist attached to my workplace - which was helpful as it was a safe place for me to talk through stuff just by myself - and my husband is now seeing the couples therapist individually as he has some further stuff to work through on his own. I strongly recommend counselling - either together or just for you - or both! In relation to your post - I totally understand your fears that this will never go away, and will effect your lives forever. For so long I wished that it would all just disappear. The sad fact is that a child has been born - so there is absolutely no way that can happen now. Your husband has a responsibility to this child now and so this child is going to be in your life in some form no matter what - even if he wasn't paying monies or seeing the child he would still loom large in your lives - just the knowledge of him....does that make sense? I think it's about accepting that and moving forward from that. That's the hard part though isn't it. I'm not going to try and advise you on how best to do that, this is something we are still trying to figure out ourselves. Until recently we had no contact with the OW or the baby, which was a mutually agreed upon - but she has made contact and is asking for financial support for the child, so we are in the process of sorting that out and making some decisions about whether we will ask for some access to the child. Its so hard to know what the best way to handle it is. Your case is complicated by the child's medical issues, but essentially you have to make the same decisions as us - are you in his life or does your husband just support financially? One thing that we have been very clear on is that we are a family unit, and that's what I think you and your husband need to be doing. You are a couple - your husband is with you, there is not a reason for him to have contact with the OW or the child that does not include you - if my husbands child to the other woman is going to be a part of his life - then he is going to be a part of my life and my kids lives and our extended families lives too, as difficult as it might be to expose the dirty secret it wouldn't be the end of the world, and perhaps the child would gain from spending time in our family as well as his with his mum? In our case the OW would like my husband to spend time with the child (or both of them) but that would just continue the splitting. We don't want that. So - I would suggest that your husbands approach - that he 'keeps this out of your relationship' is not going to be possible....it's already a HUGE thing in your relationship and that won't change. In my opinion he'd be better off thinking about how the two of you handle this from now on - how will you as a couple deal with the situation? Whatever choices are made, if you two are together then they effect both of you. It is scary feeling like you're in limbo, I remember feeling just like that, but now as much as I still wish this never happened and that that other child was never born, I accept that I have to face it and deal with it with my husband and that this situation/issue can't destroy our family - it's not ideal but its not the end of the world...if that makes sense??? It's very early days for you - you have only just found out and your world has been turned upside down - you will have so many emotions and thoughts going through your mind....I wish I could take all that away for you, I can;t, but I can tell you that one day you won;t feel like you do now, things will get better again - you might be with your husband and you might not, but I promise that you won;t feel so scared or so in pain - it takes time. Be kind to yourself and don;t expect to know what to do or think right now. I hope some of my ramblings might help in some way though. Always happy to 'listen' too.
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 March 2011): I found out a month ago that my husband had had an affair. It went on for 2 months, then apparently she wanted more. But he wanted to give our marriage another chance, so she left the scene. She is foreign and went back to her country. We've been trying to work through this affair and things are still quite shaky, but we have strong feelings for each other and I felt we'd make it through. As things were settling between us, he confessed yesterday that the other woman got pregnant last year and in November she had a baby boy. HE spent the whole early stages of the pregnancy trying to persuade her to give up the baby, but she is 32 years old and she decided she wanted it, even though they would have nothing to do with my husband. Sadly, somewhere down the line, she took some pills trying to induce an abortion. it didn't work and the baby was born with a lot of problems. He's now five months old and he has growing problems and he's there with his mum and her mum. Sometimes he has problems breathing and she has to help him with an oxygen mask. I'm not sure he gets the best medical treatment and I worry about him, about my relationship, about what that poor other woman is going through, and I am not sure how is this going to affect us?! My Husband has decided he will help them out with money and he will want to help and be in that child's life. HE wishes to keep that out of our relationship. He has been remorsful and was prepared to leave, but I told him we'll give it a chance. We don't have any children of our own yet, our financial situation is not great and we don't have real assets between us. Sometimes I wonder if I need all this pain and what keeps me here? this love that I've had for him, how much more can it take before it takes a knock down for good? where is this going? is she going to move back near us with this baby? will she find someone new and the baby will then have that person as his father? The scariest thought is that this baby and the other woman will now constantly be part of our lives, we'll never be able to cease contact or to forget, we're stuck in this limbo and we're both going out of our minds.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 May 2010): Unfortunately, the reality is that your husband is the father of an innocent child. The child did nothing wrong and should not be punished for his parents. It now becomes an issue of what is better for the child; if the mother is as crazy as she sounds then the child needs the stability of a real, loving family. This puts you in a difficult position because you have to accept that this child is now part of your lives and love him/her.
The other part is that I would suggest you read "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands." For some reason your husband needed something that made him look outside his marriage with you. For your marriage to work you have to forgive him and be his girlfriend. You can never throw this affair back in his face; its over its done. If you want to make sure he never cheats again make sure you are his girlfriend.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 April 2010): You just take care of your own - and do not let this woman into your lives.
as for your hb - make certain he doesn't cheat again. and if he does no second chances . for now all blame is on the OW and he got away scot free. BUT make certian he knows that he did wrong, he betrayed you and your marriage.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 April 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYeah - I think you definatly have a point and I do think there is a HIGH chance this is exactly what happened in my case - and yes, the OW will have a lot of explaining to do - but it doesn't change the fact that the poor 'baby' is the biggest victim!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 April 2010): personally i believe if this other woman tried to trap her married man by falling pregnant she should bear the brunt of explaining to her kid her actions. is she cared anything for "her kid" then she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place. i have come across many many stories where the other woman accidently purposefully got pregnant. Makes you wonder, really makes you wonder.....
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 April 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionDear Invisible26,
I'm sorry to hear your story, it was really interesting to get your perspective - I really do feel for the innocent children stuck in the middle of messes that people make when they have affairs.
I agree - I think it is inevitable that the child born to my husbands affair will find out one day - and will have lots of questions for my husband. I imagine there will be alot of anger too, probably aimed at me too - if he thinks I am the reason my husband had no contact.
I guess at this stage I am just seeing what happens, things could change anytime and I know that and will just deal with things as I need to - but I know one thing - I hold no ill feelings towards this child - and if he does show up at our door when he is 15, 19, 25...I will do my best to help him know that none of what has gone on was his fault. I will take on what you have said about keeping some sort of memories for him - and see if this is something my husband would find useful.
At present I think my husband feels like not having contact is actually better for the child - it's so hard to know how to handle a situation like this - probably whatever we do will not end up being right - we just have to do what feels right at the time I suppose.
I hope you have been able to find happiness in other aspects of your life.
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female
reader, invisible26  +, writes (22 April 2010):
As the child of an affair i have a suggestion.I know you are in this situation and from your recent post it appears you and your husband have had no contact with this child...My mother had an affair and got pregnant with me. I found out when i was 15 and when i went looking for my biological father he didnt want anything to do with me. You and your husbands response was beautiful for me to hear. Unfortunately this women, cant handle a blended family.let me just state. This child WILL FIND OUT. He or she may come looking for their father, your husband. I suggest to your husband to keep some kind of scrap book, letters anything over the years. Write birthday cards and keep them if they can not be sent. But over the years, keep something tangible for this child. If he/she does come looking, they will know they were thought of, they will know they were loved, even if there was no contact. I daydream of this response. A response i will never get but your family was willing to be involved, which is beautiful. I would have like this. Be prepared, we usually always find out some way or another. Keeping secrets never works.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 April 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionNadege,
I am incredulous after reading your most recent response, did you even read my response to you? I fail to see how your new nutty and difficult to make sense of 'views' could stem from it - but it has pointed out to me that you just "don't get it" and probably never will - so thanks for sharing your "interesting to say the least" views - but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on this situation.
I hope my fellow posters will exercise caution when reading advice/views from you too!
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female
reader, nadege  +, writes (16 April 2010):
Well thanks for your response. I am sorry if you found it strong. I could say many things but I will highlight that you CAN live with someone even if he is your husband who abandoned a woman pregnant and he is letting his own kid down. And you accept this as his choice. Sorry but in my view our morality is not in compartments. I find this cruel from both of you but perhaps it is my upbringing or a different culture. I truly can't grasp how you respect a man who did/does such a thing. The other point I would like to make is that somehow you think being a wife makes you better than the OW by default and by default your husband is some sort of "victim". They both knew what they were doing as you do yourself. You are not any better than her because you are a wife and she is not. We should only be judged from our actions and not from where we belong socially. You seem to pass the message that a marriage is some sort of asylum for the cheaters. My view is that such an attitude encourages men to cheat and be dublicious without consequences. It seems the UK society conveniently blames the OW and it is ready to believe the husband who somehow has always been lured by the OW. I find this unfair and this is only my view and not my experience as you imply.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThis response goes out to Nadege who wrote on Feb 28th.
Firstly, thanks for your thoughts - as you can see it has been quite some time since I wrote on this thread - around 2 years has gone by. Initially I wasn't going to respond - as I no longer feel the need to 'discuss' this situation on here, but there were a couple of things I wanted to say -so I will respond to various points in your post.
Firstly, I was blind - but not in the sense you describe - I didn't pay attention to the cracks in my relationship when I should have - I think I was so focused on my pregnancy and becoming a parent - the changes that would bring - that I was a bit blind. I guess I thought my husband was having his own thoughts on becoming a Dad and put some of his behavior down to that.
I do not agree that my husband was in a 'relationship' with the OW - but I guess that depends on how you define a relationship - I don't think it is a relationship when you see each other once every now and then, when none of your family or friends is aware of it, when it begins a sex - and as deceit, when you don;t share any responsibilities etc - but if you think an affair that continues over a 12 month period constitutes a relationship, ok - whatever.
The OW - you don;t like that term do you - how about Sideho as one of my fellow posters calls them -the Sideho was newly divorced when she met my hsb. She apparently didn't think her hsb was 'good enough' - didn't respect his job etc. So, I suppose she was single. She said she was out for a bit of 'fun'.
I imagine she did develop feelings for my hsb - if you have ever read any of the literature on affairs you would have seen that what often starts as a lust/sex thing - a bit of excitment and fun on the side often becomes complicated by a growing emotional attachment by one of the parties involved - or both I suppose at times. Generally the female, the one who becomes more emotionally attached starts to increase their expectations and fantasize about what 'more' they could be. This is usually when affairs begin to unravel - there is almost a 'script' for affairs if you have a look.
The literature also talks about the injured party - meaning the spouse of the cheater (me in this case) seeing the other person (sideho) as the enemy and projecting their anger at their spouse onto that person - so yes - I guess I did at the beginning - a perfectly normal response in my situation as it turns out. Did you actually read my post and then my subsequent responses to other posters though?? I fail to see how you could think I did not lay any blame with my husband - I did and still do. In fact, as time passed I was less and less angry with the sideho - as she owed me nothing, it was my husband who owed me more respect. She is pretty much nothing to me now - the 'affair' still hurts at times - but is to do with my hsb when I think of it.
Yes, the sideho fell pregnant. I will never know for sure if she did that deliberately - but knowing ALL the facts I am highly suspicious. It is irrelevant at the end of the day. The term 'frivolous' is offensive as I can assure you there was nothing frivolous in my thinking and reactions to this affair...I am left wondering if you even understand the meaning of that word?
My hsb was 30 at the time I wrote about this - sideho was 34 (I assume you were thinking he was some sleezy 45 yr old cracking on to some innocent 22yr old- sorry, nope - she was old enough to know better - as was he.)My hsb is not a 'mental invalid' (whatever that is) - he made a conscious choice to trust that the sideho was telling him the truth when she said she was on the pill....I agree, it was REALLY stupid of him and I have expressed that to him. I think we both have regretted that decision about 80 million times...the pregnancy/other baby was and continues to be the post difficult part of all this to reconcile for us. You speak of me 'abandoning' this other child - well I'm sorry but I don't owe that kid anything - perhaps my hsb does and his mother does, but not me - so I feel no guilt about that. If thinking about my own son and wanting to cause him the least pain possible makes me a bitch in your eyes then I can live with that. Do you have any kids - if you do you will know that they come first in every way.
A true marriage is more than a facade, I have never wanted to maintain mine as a facade and don;t think it is or ever was, even at the time of the affair it was more than that - are you married??
It is VERY difficult to trust my hsb after learning he was cheating for a year - I am still trying to regain my trust in him - it will no doubt take a long time for us to feel this huge betrayal is behind us fully. In response to that, we have both committed to attending a therapist together and are working through or own issues and our issues within the couple. So, although I will never really know what he told sideho to get her involved, I am gaining some insight into why my hsb was susceptible to cheating, he is too so hopefully it will never happen again - to be honest I don't often think much about sideho and what motivated her - it's a waste of my time as she is not anything to do with me. In response to you though - does it really matter what my hsb said to her?? She still made HER CHOICE to become involved, knowing he was married, knowing his wife was pregnant etc etc....I don't think you can try and say she was some poor little duped girl - she too has responsibility to shoulder in this mess. You could ask what did she say to him to keep him from ending things as he tried to several times? Wondering about all this is pointless in the end in my opinion.
I never said the sideho was the cheater - not sure what your paragraph rant about that was all about - and as for me being the master of the universe I am not sure why you think I believe I am? What has given you the impression I think I can control this situation for anyone other than myself?
I am working, and was at the time I posted the question - I have quite a senior role in my profession and would easily have the capacity to be financially independent of my husband - so, as far as 'convenience' goes deciding to work through the pain and heartbreak of my hsb's betrayal has not been about that. It is in fact about having a deep love for the man I married and know my hsb is - despite major faults and major mistakes - and about not wanting to give up on a relationship that has been so much more than it was at the time of the affair - and which can be again I hope. I don't think I am hallucinating or being a 'frivolous' idiot for wanting to try - things are never black and white. I don't know how it will go, but two years on we are doing pretty well. We still work hard at repairing things every day - which is a big positive if you ask me.
My hsb has no contact with sideho (she emails him at Xmas or on her son's b'day as if they are old chums -and tells him how great she is doing) and that has been HIS CHOICE up to now - if he changes his mind we will work through that together. That's all I can do.
I have never discussed morals - never suggested morality in my actions or responses and never speculated about the morals (or lack thereof) of the sideho - perhaps you shouldn't either - remember this forum is an avenue to ask advice/put forth ideas etc - but you only get part of the picture on here.
having read your response and noted the very emotional, reactive language you have used - I am left suspecting you either have no experience of marriage and /or infidelity OR that you yourself have been a sideho - in which case I feel sorry for you.
Thanks again for your response tho- it was quite good for me to read some of this old stuff and realise how far I have actually come from back then.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 March 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThis response goes out to Nadege who wrote on Feb 28th.
Firstly, thanks for your thoughts - as you can see it has been quite some time since I wrote on this thread - around 2 years has gone by. Initially I wasn't going to respond - as I no longer feel the need to 'discuss' this situation on here, but there were a couple of things I wanted to say -so I will respond to various points in your post.
Firstly, I was blind - but not in the sense you describe - I didn't pay attention to the cracks in my relationship when I should have - I think I was so focused on my pregnancy and becoming a parent - the changes that would bring - that I was a bit blind. I guess I thought my husband was having his own thoughts on becoming a Dad and put some of his behavior down to that.
I do not agree that my husband was in a 'relationship' with the OW - but I guess that depends on how you define a relationship - I don't think it is a relationship when you see each other once every now and then, when none of your family or friends is aware of it, when it begins a sex - and as deceit, when you don;t share any responsibilities etc - but if you think an affair that continues over a 12 month period constitutes a relationship, ok - whatever.
The OW - you don;t like that term do you - how about Sideho as one of my fellow posters calls them -the Sideho was newly divorced when she met my hsb. She apparently didn't think her hsb was 'good enough' - didn't respect his job etc. So, I suppose she was single. She said she was out for a bit of 'fun'.
I imagine she did develop feelings for my hsb - if you have ever read any of the literature on affairs you would have seen that what often starts as a lust/sex thing - a bit of excitment and fun on the side often becomes complicated by a growing emotional attachment by one of the parties involved - or both I suppose at times. Generally the female, the one who becomes more emotionally attached starts to increase their expectations and fantasize about what 'more' they could be. This is usually when affairs begin to unravel - there is almost a 'script' for affairs if you have a look.
The literature also talks about the injured party - meaning the spouse of the cheater (me in this case) seeing the other person (sideho) as the enemy and projecting their anger at their spouse onto that person - so yes - I guess I did at the beginning - a perfectly normal response in my situation as it turns out. Did you actually read my post and then my subsequent responses to other posters though?? I fail to see how you could think I did not lay any blame with my husband - I did and still do. In fact, as time passed I was less and less angry with the sideho - as she owed me nothing, it was my husband who owed me more respect. She is pretty much nothing to me now - the 'affair' still hurts at times - but is to do with my hsb when I think of it.
Yes, the sideho fell pregnant. I will never know for sure if she did that deliberately - but knowing ALL the facts I am highly suspicious. It is irrelevant at the end of the day. The term 'frivolous' is offensive as I can assure you there was nothing frivolous in my thinking and reactions to this affair...I am left wondering if you even understand the meaning of that word?
My hsb was 30 at the time I wrote about this - sideho was 34 (I assume you were thinking he was some sleezy 45 yr old cracking on to some innocent 22yr old- sorry, nope - she was old enough to know better - as was he.)My hsb is not a 'mental invalid' (whatever that is) - he made a conscious choice to trust that the sideho was telling him the truth when she said she was on the pill....I agree, it was REALLY stupid of him and I have expressed that to him. I think we both have regretted that decision about 80 million times...the pregnancy/other baby was and continues to be the post difficult part of all this to reconcile for us. You speak of me 'abandoning' this other child - well I'm sorry but I don't owe that kid anything - perhaps my hsb does and his mother does, but not me - so I feel no guilt about that. If thinking about my own son and wanting to cause him the least pain possible makes me a bitch in your eyes then I can live with that. Do you have any kids - if you do you will know that they come first in every way.
A true marriage is more than a facade, I have never wanted to maintain mine as a facade and don;t think it is or ever was, even at the time of the affair it was more than that - are you married??
It is VERY difficult to trust my hsb after learning he was cheating for a year - I am still trying to regain my trust in him - it will no doubt take a long time for us to feel this huge betrayal is behind us fully. In response to that, we have both committed to attending a therapist together and are working through or own issues and our issues within the couple. So, although I will never really know what he told sideho to get her involved, I am gaining some insight into why my hsb was susceptible to cheating, he is too so hopefully it will never happen again - to be honest I don't often think much about sideho and what motivated her - it's a waste of my time as she is not anything to do with me. In response to you though - does it really matter what my hsb said to her?? She still made HER CHOICE to become involved, knowing he was married, knowing his wife was pregnant etc etc....I don't think you can try and say she was some poor little duped girl - she too has responsibility to shoulder in this mess. You could ask what did she say to him to keep him from ending things as he tried to several times? Wondering about all this is pointless in the end in my opinion.
I never said the sideho was the cheater - not sure what your paragraph rant about that was all about - and as for me being the master of the universe I am not sure why you think I believe I am? What has given you the impression I think I can control this situation for anyone other than myself?
I am working, and was at the time I posted the question - I have quite a senior role in my profession and would easily have the capacity to be financially independent of my husband - so, as far as 'convenience' goes deciding to work through the pain and heartbreak of my hsb's betrayal has not been about that. It is in fact about having a deep love for the man I married and know my hsb is - despite major faults and major mistakes - and about not wanting to give up on a relationship that has been so much more than it was at the time of the affair - and which can be again I hope. I don't think I am hallucinating or being a 'frivolous' idiot for wanting to try - things are never black and white. I don't know how it will go, but two years on we are doing pretty well. We still work hard at repairing things every day - which is a big positive if you ask me.
My hsb has no contact with sideho (she emails him at Xmas or on her son's b'day as if they are old chums -and tells him how great she is doing) and that has been HIS CHOICE up to now - if he changes his mind we will work through that together. That's all I can do.
I have never discussed morals - never suggested morality in my actions or responses and never speculated about the morals (or lack thereof) of the sideho - perhaps you shouldn't either - remember this forum is an avenue to ask advice/put forth ideas etc - but you only get part of the picture on here.
having read your response and noted the very emotional, reactive language you have used - I am left suspecting you either have no experience of marriage and /or infidelity OR that you yourself have been a sideho - in which case I feel sorry for you.
Thanks again for your response tho- it was quite good for me to read some of this old stuff and realise how far I have actually come from back then.
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A
female
reader, nadege +, writes (28 February 2010):
I am truly completely frustrated with how blind you are. Your husband had a year long affair. That means that what you call the other woman for a year was in a relationship with him. You don't know much about her but at the time she was most probably single and she developed feelings for your husband. Immediately you took the approach she is the enemy in order for you not to take responsibility for the true status of your marriage and the true character of your husband. That lady fell pregnant, a blessing for most women, and instead of having sympathy for her you frivolously took the approach that she did it on purpose. May I ask how old is your husband and how old is she? Is he a mental invalid so he doesn't remember if he wears a condomn or not? I am truly disgusted with how you are quick to turn a blind eye on your husband's role in all this, and how quickly you are to abandon a child only to maintain your lifestyle. A true marriage is more than a facade. How can you possibly trust him again after him leading parallel lives for a year? How do you know what he was telling her for her to get involved?It is easy and convenient to assume that you, the wife, are the master of the universe and your husband poor baby is out there attacked by vicious women who want to take him from you, but the truth is that most probably your husband is a duplicitous bastard who was having sex and then coming home as if nothing has happened. It is entirely up to you if you want to keep him, but stop hallucinating that the cheater was the unforunate lady. The cheater is your husband. That lady didn't cheat on anybody. It is women like you who by turning a blind eye to so frivolously called affairs that support this. Men in this country lead a double life for years and the wife plays it that she wants to save the marriage. Most probably do and forgive me if I'm wrong but your are not working. So it is your convenience you want to maintain. There is nothing moral in your attitude. If anything the other woman is more moral than you because she decided to keep the baby.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 August 2008): Nikki, Maybe you should start your own thread. I don't think it's such a good idea to post SO much personal information about yourself. You have been through alot and I wish you and your children all the best.
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female
reader, Nikki2033 +, writes (29 August 2008):
Responding to anon- it's not how you perceive it at all. There are three -four sides to every story then there's the Truth. Like I have stated, I don't do Wishful thinking( that resulted in my being in two abusive relationships, I saw them for what they really were not what I wanted them to be and outside spectators( family and friends on both sides of the Family saw it as other wise). I am a no-nonsense type of individual, a Spoiled Brat to say the least, type A personality.I met him in a Professional Setting, maybe he was intriqued at first glimpse? I am like Fort Knox, idle mind games do not work, here. A man cannot entice me or talk me out of my clothes and into bed with them, even now, if I am not up for it, it doesn't happen( no Sex)Sex is a Method of Control for me, to proposition and get what I want and need- I can do without.Getting back to the wife; those conversations came up-due to the way my ex was acting. It could have easily at that moment been one of the Single police officers or sheriffs that had to respond to calls at my home in reference to that Idiot. All the law enforcement that responded- older, young, black, white hispanic, all asked the same questions what type of relationship did we have, what led to his irractic behavior, etc, expressing geniune concern for that of myself and small children, courtesy calls, and rides pass my home. I was at a Vulenrable point in my Life- where I needed comfort,Intimacy, you name it-I needed it badly. Married man, job(Police Detective) involved him to follow up with me, more often due to the investigation he was currently in( investigating my father for illegal activity- a direct violation of his Oath); with my Father's violent tendacies it would be for the average veteran officer to think that with what I was going through, my father would be close by or would go after my ex( and kill him literally).He is not my Preference and neither am I his; I prefer a certain type of male and he prefers interracial relationships, women without children, and a little older than myself. He's more of a home body and I like to go out occassionally and be active. He's a Virgo male and my sign isn't by any chance compatible with his. The lying about his Wife and so forth like most men do( and my ex's told their mistresses I was crazy, didn't want to work; wanted them to support me and the children; belittled them, you name it; but when trouble occured I was the loving devoted partner, after they had all their fun, I had to pick up the slack of their mis-managements. I experienced it first hand(twice). Dogged at home and had to put up a Front out in Social gatherings -one was a Mason and there always functions, worked for a large company and many company gatherings( his hookers weren't eye-candy, etc so I had to accompany him on trips, etc). The other had to have someone that appealed to the social cicle of his mom, well-dressed, refined, and Intelligent to make him look good- he had a secret life of illegal activities( that I felt I was to blame, because he wanted to provide a lifestyle I was accustom too prior to him and hood-rats were his preference-he was seeking approval at 32( when I met him) from his mother and was dealing with Abandonment issues( his mother abandoned him and started a new family-he was raised by his Maternal Grandmother); I thought love, unconditional love would Heal him, not change, but mend his heart; not!I don't trust the opposite sex( only the ones that admit their short-comings and wrongs/faults). I have dealt with what I interpreted as the Compulsive Liars type of males; see I depise liars when I am Betrayed I never fully Forgive. The ones that want Cake, Ice cream, Sprinkles, cherry on top, Nuts and Whip Cream. I felt it was a Personal Matter between the Two of them and didn't go home with him to Confront her; he wanted me to go. I told him when he returned later on that night after the Wife knew about us, maybe it was a Mistake. No. She is not going to put him out;but he will leave if I tell him too. He has proven that time and time again, before I had a change of Heart. I know their financial circumstances, as if they were my Own. I have a dead line for myself ( dealing with school and going back into the work force)and it's hit or miss a couple of days from his dead line. A real man wouldn't want his Woman, mate, girl friend, spouse or significant other to Bail them out of Financial Difficulties. I offered to catch up their mortgage and her car payments, to make things equal and fair; a friend of his and his father offered to Bail him out as well and he Declined all offers. He has been ordered to pay me a hefty amount of Child Support monthly that he is also behind on, but he still contributes to the House Hold, provide for the children within my house hold and I get to go on shopping sprees when I feel like it. The remodling on my home is for making ample amount of room for all 8 children and to have additional space as they grow. I will not give up my home, but we have been looking at homes with enough space for all the children in his area, so that he can still be with them daily-While living apart from them. She is currently disconnecting things within their home and closing out accounts, one because she's learned that I know vital information about him and her, and two, to be more independent( done that one, but my ex's mistresses couldn't tell you nothing but their birthdays).I know that a woman scorned with come out with claws fighting,and I don't put anything pass her. I have told him long ago, what her reactions would be, and she has done that and some. I can related, she has the actual passports and have removed the locked boxes out of the house; the box contains vital records and documents relating to the kids and them; his guns have been removed; certain valueables that he had prior to their getting married and her moving to the states( emotional blackmail; threats of Killing him for not ending our Relationship, etc, it's been recorded. I know what she looks like, where she works, etc, she has sent me emails, texts, but that was prior to finding out I was the Woman sleeping with her husband. We were never friends, etc., she knew he had a female friend named Nikki, etc, but she didn't know that we were having an Affair. I call it what it is, an Affair, he's not available, he's still Obligated to his spouse until he signs on the dotted lines and it's been finalized.M/m and I constantly talk on the phone, whether she is home, next to him, etc. She has even been apart of our Conversations-dealing with Work, etc, before he closed her out. I have heard her voice messages-raising Hell, about things that I feel weren't important, and since our Affair has been out in the Open. No. I heard her say what I was offended by. When he didn't want to check his messages and I insisted.I try to be as Respectful and Mindful as I can, I have learned to separate certain things, to have a clear and level head through all of this. See I say and think about things differently because I have been on the receiving end for so long, I am more open-minded about things. I have found some clarity and closure with my ex's I have issues with the Ultimate Betrayal's. See you sound like I did, 6(six) months ago-anon. Discussing what was eating at me, more openingly and not withdrawing from others my emotions, have helped out a lot and in fact made-m/m and I more closer in return. I have so many dear John letters, that I have handed him to try and end things without any opposition from him,etc. I have communicated my thoughts and feelings dealing with being in a relationship like this to him( again strengthen our Bond). I was a step-mother before( the children mother didn't want to be mama); I was 23 years old, with a daughter and was assisting my ex with raising his three kids from a previous relationship-the kids at that time ranged in age from 6, 8, and 10, I had newborn twins. I know how it feels to feel used, my former step daughters still call to this day and they still call me Mama or Nikki. So I do know what she is going through to some Degree. As for the salvaging of the marriage after my biopsy I encouraged him to try and work things out with his mate, he Refused; I tried to end things with him after we got back to my House, he went with me to hold my hand( moral support). I have always told him to work things out with Her; not the typical Affair; I am the driving force within this relationship-not him,I dictate when he's here or not; not my altering my schedule to meet his;if I say, I need to see you now, and she has something planned or they are in the mist of the event, he leaves and come when I request. She has been left in the movies, etc, because I have called him to come do what I needed done.Many times I wouldn't send him home when the boys were newborns until, it was time for his children to come home, or their events that required his Presence. He's here because he Wants to be! My neighbor( aunt-that is married ot my Uncle-is experiencing the same thing) asked me why I won't send him Home to his Wife, says it's Disrespectful; what she fails to realize is that when he is here for that week and leaves only for a couple of Hours, or for Work and returns, its by his choice now, and not mine.Sadly to say, I am enjoying my Freedom of not having a Spouse in the House with me, but being able to enjoy the Perks and Benefits of having one. I am not committment phobic. Like I have stated, this relationship-started because of me-I take sole Blame, he didn't approach me, I approached him, he loved his Wife and had bed buddies on the side at the time. I wanted to get my rocks off and move on, but he wanted a full-blown relationship. Now that I have taken that into consideration, I am having second thoughts-dealing with the level of hell both my ex's put me and my children through. I prefer a long term relationship now, without the complications of marriage.I am with him on Holidays-Thanksgiving, Christmas, birthdays, Labor Day, Valentine's Day, etc, I don't spend my holidays alone, like I did occassionally with my ex's. In fact his Birthday falls on Labor Day this year, we won't be cooking out, we will be having dinner, etc. I feel most of the problems occurred with my ex's because we weren't never really friends first but rushed things along, when in fact we should have dated longer after being friends first, then the marriages. I was communicting but they weren't, they communicated with other Women. We have also discussed the outcome of Us not being Together as far as the children go; he is committed to still being a Full-Time Father/Father Figure to the children, etc. People come into our Lives for a Reason and a Purpose, and I know this isn't Typical, he has assisted my mother in Crisis, he's attentive to my 95 year old Great-grandmother, etc. We are Friends before anything else. I felt sorry at first for his spouse also, until the name calling and belittling; I have relatives that worked with him in a Professional and close/personal setting, I come from a well-known family with ties. It did just happen and now we are dealing with the consequences of those actions that Summer night after the a very Frightening encounter from my ex. I am a very strong female that doesn't just cry at the drop of a hat. I needed comforting, did you ever think maybe it was me that initiated the sexual encounter? No, blame the Married Man( it's so convient); don't know many unless they are Gay that will turn down some tail, if it's right in front of them.We were acquaintances, no I don't think it would have been an issue my meeting his family, etc or wife, or hiding our relationship, prior to my Crossing the Lines. In fact, the wife semi- knew about his investigating of my father, what psychotic events that were unfolding during his investigation. She actually thought his mistress was a co-worker of his, a blonde with long hair; because of the Bond those two shared.( prior to his meeting me and afterwards and even now, she doesn't believe him and think he's lying about my identity, etc, to throw her off).That was a little detail into the Drama; his co-workers until meeting me, thought the exact same thing( that he only dated foreign women or white). My children look biracial, so that should tell you I am a fair-skinned complexion female. In the two months, he only made one out of way remark, and many wouldn't have found it out of Character, but I did. It was so minute that I cannot exactly remember the exact comment. I am easily offended. I know what basically ended his other Affairs and why he didn't expose them; I have met a few of their friends, his friends, co-workers, and talked to his family members and one of hers. Like I have stated, she was really the only one that didn't really know, besides the kids. My children do not know that he is married, some in my family do not know, you wouldn't unless you knew him and or he told you.The similarities are he cheated on his Wife; still having an on-going affair; the marriage hasn't been resolved to date. Every relationship is different, every marriage is different, every family relationship is different, etc. They however have similarties but are different in one way or another. Mine is different, because What ever happens, happens, we could still be friends in the end and co-parent our children; we don't talk in terms of the future other than taking a family trip to the Olympic Games in 2012 to his home country to visit his relatives and show the children where he's from. As for Us, we don't discuss an Us, we discuss the Future as far as Wishes, hopes and dreams for the Children and how to go about accomplishing those Goals.I have never told him that I wanted to be Married to him, I have stated that whatever happens with his marriage, that I will be Okay with it. If we were to continue on, that Marriage would not be an option for me, but joint assests( our relationship could be more of a Partnership). He changed his tones within the first six(6) months of this Affair, stating that he could walk out on his Wife; when before he has always stated that the other Affairs ended because he would not leave his Wife and made it Very Clear in the Beginning-they served one purpose and one purpose only, not communicating, dating, etc, but having sex.I currently have over $250,000.00 on him in two separate life insurance policies-in the event something was to happen to him, our children would be well-compensated for, and not depending on social security payments. I still maintain my insurance policies for my ex's. He signed and took the medical exams for both policies. I have a copies that are notarized of his passports, social security card, etc that is locked into a safe(in my home). His children respects him more, because he is their eyes according to the text messages and conversations, letters is a Man of his Word. They want to stay with the Lady that raised them as if they were her very Own-commendable, because she has no family over here in the United States- this is what I wrestle with daily.Do I want him to abandon her in a foreign country? Do I want him to leave his children( when they are equally used to having their father)? What type of example will I be setting for my children( when they discover the Truth about their father/father figure)? It's not as Cut and Dry as most see it. A mess yes, because children are involved, children that will learn to cope with their issues because of the way they were shown by their Parents. See it's easy for many Wives that have been Betrayed to come on here and call the other Woman stupid or say that she is being used. I did it! It's easy for Wives/the Other Woman at one time or another- that are Scorned to come on here or place Judgment on either party. Displacement of Anger is not Good for any of Us. I came on here to share both sides of my Experiences. I am not trying to Paint a Nightmare or a Fairytale for anyone. Until a month ago, he never acted as if he was Truly concerned about my Leaving him, and no he didn't make Empty Promises to try and stop me, etc.I have to Look at myself in the Mirror, I have to go to Sleep at Night dealing with what I have allowed myself to do. I am my Worst Critic, Truthfully, I always felt I was too Good to knowingly share a man; that's why I left my ex's when I had tangible proof. I work or try too, because I choose too-alimony/child support cover majority of my expenses; not a dummy- have pictures, tape recordings, etc that I still have in a file now,locked away in my file cabinet. So I know what a Wife will do, you will play that role to get as much Evidence as possible after the hurt feelings subsize, and started detailing every account. I couldn't accept another baby, maybe you are much different than I; but mark my word to the original commentor, when that child is born things will change, prepare for it.I have witnessed a lot of things within other marriages and have known Husbands or Wives to leave after being in an Affair over two -five years and turn around and Marry the other person and are still married to those Individuals. In the cases of my Ex's they have not had any Good Luck or Deeds to come their way; that's why they Both have tried to Reconcile. I could always expose my Children to another man, other than the m/m and their fathers; hmmmm. I can live a life alone, without anyone; until they are Grown, it doesn't matter, with me. I have sex toys, etc and what ever is whatever in my Book, now, I stay depressed because of my ex's using the kids to their Advantage, think that because I am being Civil, it's a Chance in Hades; and my constant Reminder of what ended our Marriages( my Current relationship and how it's Unfolding).Like I have stated before so that I can be more concise and stop posting short stories on this site-my email address is my log on name and yahoo.com.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 August 2008): Nikki2033’s post unfortunately does support my explanation of how these relationship start. He “discussed his wife and their problems” . She resisted his advances but “one thing led to another”. I am sorry but I think her pursued her from the very beginning. He used the “friend” tactic to get close to her I feel so bad for his wife. Honestly, I cringed as well. His wife adopted his kids. This guy is real piece of… It really upsets me to see men get away this. Don’t think he isn’t. He has got the women blaming and mad at each other which get’s him off the hook. I bet the men who do this are still in both women’s beds when they should be on the street or at least on the couch. Sure they feel bad but they are still in these women’s beds.Nikki2033, I really don’t think he will leave his wife. If she is trying to salvage the marriage then she will. She may never be happy but she has many reasons to try. It may be more for her children then herself. I think that the marriage would end only if the wife decides to leave. If he has any heart, his guilt will prevent him from leaving. I think that you may have many more years of frustration and pain ahead of you. I think that you have to look at things as they are and not what you are hoping for. Be careful of anything he tells you about his wife. It will always be one sided. He may be telling her he wants to work things out and of course he won’t tell you that. He may be banking on the fact that you both will accept things and everything will settle. He may not be thinking at all and the mess will continue to grow.
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reader, Nikki2033 +, writes (28 August 2008):
Like I have stated before; the issues that I have that are lingering within this relationship and weighing heavy on my Heart and Mind, is the fact that I betrayed myself. I have since learned to "never say never", not to be so over critical of others, etc. When I say we love the kids(babies) his are included. I am not being taken on a ride other than being a Mother and wanting what is Bset for all the Kids involved( his/ mine/ ours together). As for her, I wanted to establish some sort of boundary- where if I decided to end things at a moment notice, I wouldn't feel like I would have to make it clear, but it would be implied that if she f***ed with my children or mistreated them in any shape or fashion that I would f*** her up. I have snatched one up before and will do it again by the throat for mistreating my children( in this case- the child was in the picture long before she was ever thought about and she came in, making some very heavy demands-her or my eldest daughter and I made the ultimate decision, he could not see my daughter with her around. It was ten years of pure Hell and two dang near close blows, before I actually snatched her up. I have always tried to lead by example and teach my children "Right from Wrong". Things happen when you are at your Weakest Moments and are Hurting and feel like you're going to lose your Mind. I was faithful, supportive, all that a Good Mate was suppose to be; I in return compromised my self-respect, along with intergrity, put my feelings and emotional well-being aside; for an underserving a$$hole; that put my health at risk, humiliated me, amongst his Whores, wanted to fight, when his cheating ways were discovered. See it was all about control with my ex's- the 1st tried to break me anyway that he could, sabbatoging my attempts at a meaningful career, tearing down my self-esteem. I don't look like I have 6 kids( 2 sets of multiples and work out every other day); I don't look like I am in my 30's( more of under 25 age group-pamper and take care of myself). I get approached constantly while the married man and I are out socializing, etc. It was the same way with my ex's; the different is, he's an attractive male himself( and they were big average looking Joe's- that were insecure of themselves and had to break me-Mentally and tried too Physically).I weighed 140 lbs when I met one of them and he was 285 and 6'ft even; the other one I weighed 135lbs and he was 310-5'10; I gained up to 168lbs due to depression and the looks of his slut-buckets; stopped caring about my appearance, my hair fell out as a result; crying spells; you name it I went through it. At the end of our relationship because my nerves had taken out my below the shoulders length hair I cut it and then I went natural; now I have a thick/healthy head of hair that stops below my neck, in a year's time( no extentions or weave). My point is Before you Judge me, I had been broken down as low as you can be broken, before I met Married Man, and he tolerated more than a little to be here-Emotional rollercoasters, peeping toms; stalking incidents, his job being in jeopardy and his freedom( because he would either kill my ex, or face court-martial because of the Scandal; my being indecisive, etc). A man ( in my case two men) that don't want you, but don't want to see you Happy or with anyone else, by any means necessary. I have been advised by several relatives and friends to write about my experiences, with hope that maybe someone would benefit from those experiences that I have gone through.It wasn't all rosey until the last past year and even now, I have my Good Days and Bad(broke down last night because of my ex ruining my day, by calling. I am still dealing with the Hurt and Betrayal of another Man to date. I have exquisite taste and likes( high maintenance).He's my Best Friend I have never refered to him as my Soul Mate, etc.In my thirty(30) plus years I have endured and experienced more than the average fifty(50) year old woman, and I am filled with Wisdom. I rely and depend on experiences that I've had and those that were close to me and what the end result were in those situations. It's easy to say what you will or will not do, until you are faced with that situation. I never thought I would have any children,left alone 6 of them, be in two abusive relationships; date/sleep with or be open about an Adulterous Relationship.Prime example- his wife had a hysterectomy on yesterday morning-he called me,leaving work, and talked until he went to pick her up; he kept me posted with her updates, we went out later that night and he called-in to work and stayed with me, until now, because I am getting ready to leave out and tend to some affairs( business). The difference with this is, when I had my surgery, he was at the hospital every night with me, and called frequently from work to check up on me and the boys; my second surgery, he was on call, but kept tabs on the boys and that of myself; our infant son had surgery he went to pre-op, was there for the surgery, recovery and tended to him at night so that I could get rest. I don't have a Trust issue with him, after all I have been through- I was hesitant on being in a serious committed relationship, I believe in Honesty( complete-that's why I contacted her, so that I could live with myself-deception doesn't suit me well). See I know that you are putting up a United Front( been there and was dying on the Inside) You want to come off as a Strong/Confident Woman( been there too) you desperately want to keep your Family Intact( been there too). There comes a time within your life, that when you decide to take Total Control, the new found empowerment is so Powerful, that you no longer see your Relationship as the primary basis of your life and self-worth; you view your mate differently, and the Hatred and Betrayal feelings leave and the I don't care if you Stay or Leave, time of Attitude is Born. prime example, my Ex called yesterday wanting to Reconcile, i refuse to take him back for several reasons, the Attraction is gone, the Love has been gone, he doesn't know if he's Fathered another child, procrastinating on establishing paternity. I know that I cannot Accept the Child and do not want to be Bothered with it or it's mother. I am being Honest with myself. My ex has been suspected of having several Outside children. I made it very clear that I wouldn't Accept those Children. I don't know what your Religious back ground is- but Tyler Perry's Plays helped me along with my bible and talking to God to regain my strength and leave for Good( it wasn't easy by no means; I really kept having second thoughts within the 1st year of our Break-up-even after all the drama). the more that I have been working on Nikki, I would rather that my mate( present or Future) would be man enough and sit down and want to actually discuss things as Civilize Adults; if they wanted to date others and have an open-relationship; instead of sneaking around and playing games with Emotions.People can get Hurt and it's Dangerous as Heck! I brought that Topic up last night again, he started thinking that I wanted out; it's not that I want out; I feel tied down and Trapped. For Sixteen (16) years of my life I have been in Three failed relationships, as Serious as you can get and Brought children into those environments. I have never really Played the Field so to speak, I am not promiscuous, neither do I carry myself in an Un-lady like Manner.I am not ashamed as to what people may feel or think about my Relationship( my concern lies with the mental well-being of all 8(eight) children involved in this fiasco. This thus far has been the Most healthiest Relationship that I have been in; in a very long time. I could really share some experiences with you, that you wouldn't believe my log-in name is part of my email address-just add yahoo.com to it. I thought, that if I shared what I had been through and the current situation I am in, along with some of my history, that more people would be understanding and would be able to relate; that I could help someone. Do I want to date another Attached male( whether they have a girl friend/wife- Heck no! Do I have any Regrets-yes; that I hurt someone the exact same way that I was treated and my heart was broken; and that I have placed my children in the middle of Adult Issues. I am not a Cold-hearted B!+ch! However I can be one; I am Human; who knows you might meet someone and they've experienced what you are currently going through, and a Friendship develop, then there's some Chemistry, then the physical( hugging, petting, etc) before long it will turn sexual, because you will be in Search for what was Lacking in your Marriage; you will want to feel whole again; you may not see it as Getting Even, but that's how your Husband will see it.I don't want sympathy, I know that I more than capable of finding my own man( as some put it); our Relationship was never Based on Sex, but that's how I tried to make it seem; it's Emotional all the way around. See he was Cheated on with his first wife and knows exactly what I was feeling and what I feel now, we both can relate to what his spouse is going through.You look for that Level of Comfort; you look for Companionship; you look for what you think and feel is missing from your Life, to add spunk back to what you see as a "Dull and Boring Life". I couldn't talk to my mother about what I was feeling; and my grandmother/great-grandmother's advice was not to argue, it will get better, hang in there, etc. Instead of actually talking to me and rectifying their experiences with wondering husbands. My great-grandmother and grandmother( her daughter-in-law) have suggested I tell him to Leave Home, etc. I did but felt bad, I know what I can take on Right now, and now isn't the time to assist in raising emotionally scared teenagers( but if faced with it-I will). I am a full-time Mommy, student and work from home. I have three toddlers, a pre-teen and two 7yr olds.My Cup is running over, but I am still not Happy; because I am still trying to find Common Ground from my past relationships and dealing with the Hurt; it doesn't go away over night and in my case, my ex abandoned me and 7 mos old twins in 2002 and attempting to kill me( because of a remark one of his so-called friends had made-concerning what I saw in him, and my appearance, etc); I still had to deal with issues from that; even with the most recent ex-there helping me raise three children that wasn't his( and he had no children at the time). From 2002-April of 2006, I allowed myself to be abused and used mentally, physically, etc; as a result I have developed Anger Management Issues, etc.( other medical conditions- almost developed an ulcer, depression that I had to take three different medications for, anxiety, rapid weight loss/gain, hair loss, a nervous stomach, etc). I have been through it, please Believe, and I am telling you, to get out before it takes a toll on you Mentally and physically like it did me, for trying to work soemthing out that my ex claimed he wanted to salvage, but actions spoke Louder, it won't be the same Woman( learned that the hard way). In my case we weren't having sex because he was too busy screwing everyone else, I was in what was suppose to be a committed relationship both times and I was not having sex-periods of 6mos and longer, but hey- I could shop, bills were paid, but I didn't have the intimacy or affection I craved from my mates. A young woman in her prime, not exploring or experiencing Life early to mid twenties.hey, what do I know, I am the Scum of the Earth Right, because I have allowed myself to become the Other Woman. I do exercises every other day-writing out the pros and the cons; what do I look for in a Potential Mate, what do I want in a Father Figure/ Role Model for my Children; what do I want out of Life; what will make me Happy( geniunely); where do I see my Future Leading Me? Those are some of the things that I do, to try and help me through my Crisis and Journey of re-discovering Nikki. Have a Good Day, I will keep checking in and also my alternate email.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 August 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThis is in response to Nikki2033 - I find it rather difficult to not cringe when you write that your 'perfect man' was the guy you whinged to about your cheating husband and the heartbreak that caused you!I just do not understand how you could experience first hand the pain of being the injured party - and then go ahead and CHOOSE to do exactly the same thing to another woman. You talk about "resisting"...well, obviously you weren't too good at that!
Now - like lots of the other posters answering this question, you try and try to justify all this. It's great that you and the mm love those babies - but at the end of the day the two of you are an absolute mess. What you describe is just a nightmare - he is playing you both and he's right...he is an a-hole who doesn't deserve any woman!
Rather than trying to talk to his wife...which I think only serves your purpose of a)trying to make yourself either feel better about what you've done, or b)being able to say "I tried" (I don;t think the wife will want any little chat with you - and it won;t be constructive)you might be better off seeking some professional support for yourself...to talk through what it is you do want, whether you can trust this guy, what is best in this whole mess of a situation??
I can't help but worry that this has all started as a mess - and continues to be one....so why will that change in the future?
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reader, Nikki2033 +, writes (25 August 2008):
Interesting the last couple of posts made on this forum. Well, my children's father doesn't feed me dreams, etc. We play things by ear. His wife however is in the process of becoming more financial independant and independant period. I offered her the opportunity to talk with me either in person, by phone, email or text; she declined. I insisted that he tell her truthfully how our friendship developed and that I was going through a similar situation in which my mate was cheating and had been cheating throughout the duration of our relationship; how betrayed I was left feelings, the stalking, and damaging of property that my mate started doing after he realized he had finally lost his family, he grew enraged and I was growing more and more fearful of my ex, the married man, became my friend, a protector and I was deeply depressed. I brushed off his advances and stated that I didn't date or entertain the ideas of dating married men. I complained and talked about my ex and our relationship the problems we were having, my consideration of taking him back, etc. He discussed his wife, their problems and what I thought would be a good approach in a woman's prospective to reach her, she still rejected him, we became Friends first, one thing led to another, and I kept trying to push him away and end things, not him, he tried to respect my wishes, but I was his best friend and he was mine.
I have been guilty of judging other women and women that set out on dating men that aren't available, now I am one. You wouldn't believe how I have struggled with the thought of knowing this is what I have now become. I seem indecisive in his eyes, because one minute I want him, we're all in love and the next I tell him, that we need to end things and I used the best interest of the kids as my reasons, then the fact I feel like a hyprocrite. I have watched my aunts, sister-in-laws, cousins, and friends deal with cheating spouses, other women and men. I know the Games and the out come in many of these situations. We communicate about everything, open and honestly. I have only caught him in one lie, and I didn't catch him, he told me; when he had the chance to come clean why he didn't. I understood the reasoning behind it, so the bitterness wore off after some weeks.
His wife thinks that I am a Whore, that I am penny-less, etc. ( assuming on her part). She didn't believe him when he tried to explain to her about my demeanor, background, etc. He's the serious straight by the book type of guy. I understand him in some levels that others can't and when he compares his wife and I, it's always on the lines of She said the exact same thing, but worded it differently, or she verbally expresses herself and your actions say what you won't; I know that he feels like shi+ and why I feel that way too. We have both been cheated on by previous mates( not the present wife); made to look like complete idiots and to feel like an idiot to add. We never intended on things happening like this. We wanted to terminate the pregnancy, I just broke a promise I had made to him and my mother, never to speak of it again, because our little blessings are here. In the past month alone we have broken up twice, this has been occurring more frequently since I decided to take down my walls and to start allowing myself to feel again and develop strong emotions for him.
He is not be blatant disrespectful, but she knows, he's here, she calls constantly looking for him and demanding that he finishes whatever he's doing and come home now.I got mad with her and stop feeling bad for her and myself when I was Disrespected and Belittled; I cried and was an emotional wreck because I could no longer live with myself without telling her, he wouldn't when I insisted, he wasn't mad when I did it either, he kept trying to console me and when i got a grip on things, he said that I was a totally different person, more calmness to my demeanor and I seemed like a burden was lifted; he feels better, now that it's all out in the open, we get alone much better and sleep a lot better too. We value our Friendship and kids, more than anything sexually and carrying out this relationship. See ours isn't based on sex, but general interest, having more things in common, I learn from him and like wise, etc. He is geniunely my Best Friend and likewise. We have endured so many obstacles and turning points in our two and half years together, the things that will either make or break a relationship. I asked him today who was trying to work things out, were they both trying to sort through issues they were having before I entered the picture, etc. He said she's trying to salvage the marriage and they are communicating better, but he doesn't want to reconcile, just buying time and want to resolve the marriage on good terms. There is no doubt or question that she will be trying to seek alimony, custody of the kids that she adopted that were biologically his. We want what is best for the children. He has been doing a lot of Soul searching, and has been making drastic changes, some on my insisting, not discussing her and what goes on within the home, unless it involves the kids, etc. He takes my daughter to school and we live in different cities that are 20 minutes apart. He does everything as if he is not married where I or my older children are concerned. He's well known in my city, and many of his former co-workers greet me and some have contempt in their eyes. We have even run into her co-workers, their neighbors, etc. He has never treated me like I was a secret, etc. He's torn as I am, I want what is Best for the Children and my soul, spiritually, he said both of us are good women that deserves better than him, he feels like a failure and a hyprocrite too; he also blames himself. He never said that he didn't love her, never, never talked badly about her, never, he's not in love with her the way a husband is suppose to feel about their wife. He sees her as his sister, or etc. He has always said he'd never abandon Us , and at times feel like I have given up on him. Mind you, I never expected him to leave home or asked him too, until July and he would have at my insisting, I chickened out and had a change of heart and mind; because of his children's reactions. I couldn't do that I don't have the heart to break children's hearts.
I now know what other women go through that are willing to share a man, I believe in Karma and it can be a Bi+ch at times. We are preparing for him to move in when the repairs are complete. My home is currently being remodled and we are buying the parts and supplies and paying someone to install them. I am currently looking for gainful employment, and we are trying to decide will we remain in my area or move to his. I just know from experience and what led me to my situation, a man will say and do whatever to keep you and will continue with his ways, being the other woman, I have found clarity and closure with my ex and the ex before him.Therefore I respect m/m more than what i did with my two ex's that cheated, mentally and physically abused me. This was a safe relationship, because I was fearful and can't telling myself, it wasn't anything serious, when he wanted more and I couldn't give that to him, until July 08'.He knows I have urges to play the feel and I know because he's been hurt he will have those urges, I talk openly to him about my wanting closure with my ex and the two times I came close to going back to my ex during these two years. We have weathered a lot of storms and he's still here, we have gone extended periods of no sex, talking, etc and still being under the same roof. We discuss bills,children, etc like married couples, we don't really argue, we have discussions and actions are taken. So with many analysis and observations of the role of the other woman and relationships with them, it's not completely true for everyone, I never really was envious of what he did when he wasn't here, until recently and I have never questioned him, we talk about everything and I never needed too. I trust him and he trust me. I have been encouraged not end things from family members, etc, and his are supporting whatever decision he makes.
I am apart of his life, he includes me in every way possible. I wanted to talk with his wife, because regardless of the outcome we need to be Adults because of the children, and I don't want negative vibes being imposed upon the children, because of the decisions that the Adults have made. I know for a fact that we are the only two women in his life besides the girls(children)and his sisters. He doesn't have time, because he's a full-time daddy to a total of 8 children, ranging in ages from 1-16 years of age, school functions, practice, nurturing, etc. to the wife, keep your eyes open, no one is trying to tell you what to do or how to view your relationship; in my case my ex had an on-going relationship with a woman for five years and said I was jealous, insecure, imaging things, you name it, not to mention when he cheated on the both of us with skanky bi+ches. I learned the hard way. I also learned to be careful, what you pray for, I was sent the man, I had requested, I just didn't pray for him to be single.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2008): My situation is similar to yours but I am the OW in mine. I have to say that I really feel for you and I sincerely hope that you can hang in there and work through it because I understand your need and desire to do so.
I want to try and give you some perspective from my experience as an OW. I would ask that you try not to make an enemy of this woman even if it is only in your mind. Be careful not to assume too much because you could be completely wrong and the anger might stick with you. I can’t speak for the woman in your situation but I have to tell you that the majority of women who end up in these situations do not seek out married men with families. Typically the men who have affairs get the relationship going by telling the other women how unhappy they are at home. They say things like, “we never talk anymore”, “we never have sex”, “ we fight all the time”. Even if he does not actually tell the OW that he wants to leave his wife, the message is still there. He leads her to believe this intentionally or not. Your husband’s affair started perhaps because of the the losses they both had but I would think that she has got the same reasoning. She is thinking that he was unhappy with you and wanted to leave the marriage anyway so why would he drop her like he did? I am almost positive that she has a very different story to tell then the one he is giving you.
Your story is painfully similar to mine however I was not aware there was anyone else when we were together. I was blindsided. I was having birth control issues and relied on condoms when we were dating. I supplied the condoms but the one time he “forgot” to use one is when I got pregnant. He flipped out and then confessed that he had a fiancé, about to get married in a couple of months and wanted nothing to do with us. It took some time for me to understand what was happening. It is difficult to believe that a man would simply turn his back on his own child so I sent him some emails during my pregnancy. His then fiancé found out about me and assaulted me through instant messages and emails. She tried to fight with me but I refused. My thinking was that she would tire out and be forced to direct her anger at him, where it belonged or she would internalize it and leave me alone. It was years later when I posted my complaints about her on a board like this that a woman explained to me that the husband probably lied to her about me and fueled her fire. It made absolute sense. It completely changed my attitude about her.
It was 4 years after my son was born that he finally came around to see his son. He did so without her knowledge. He said that she could not handle it. She can’t have children which makes it even more painful for her so I understand. He tried to start things back up with me and unfortunately he did get his way after heavily pursuing me for awhile. He used all the lines I mentioned. He convinced me how unhappy he was and that he made a mistake with her. Honestly, I did not really want the relationship but I desperately wanted him to have a relationship with his son. Any mother should understand that. It was very hard for me to get over the past. I had issues with the abandonment but the worst was my lack of trust and respect for him. It was bad. One day he was working from home and asked me to come visit him. He wanted me to sleep in his wife’s bed and get me pregnant again in her bed. It disgusted me and everything went downhill from there. What a HUGE mistake. It is so depressing to know that my most precious son’s father is complete a**hole. I could never be him after that.
I am not going to assume that your husband is as bad as my son’s father but I would suggest that you consider that this OW has a very different story then what your husband is telling you. I think that it is important to forgive her as well if you can. If he sees how strong you are and truly believes that you can handle his relationship with this child (not just because you say you can) then there would be less of a chance he will do it without your knowledge. I would be very concerned if he really does not want a relationship with the child. It was because of the way my son’s father treated his wife that reviled to me how messed up he is. It makes me reluctant to have him around my son. What kind of influence would he have on my son? Scary. Consider that fact that your child may one day discover his half sibling. How will it affect your child knowing that your husband refused to be involved?
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reader, anonymous, writes (23 August 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi Anon of 21st August,
The OW met my husband at a conference - where he was wearing his wedding band. When they continued to meet after that initial night of sex - she would tell him to take his wedding band off before coming into her house. So yes, she knew he was married from the outset.
She was told I was 6 months pregnant shortly after the affair began - this also did not seem to phase her. She had her own agenda by then - I doubt she ever allowed herself to think about me or what pain their affair would cause me and my child - that would force her to look at what she was willing to do to get what she wanted.
I discovered the affair when I found several intimate text messages from her on his mobile - she was by then in the early weeks of her pregnancy. I have wondered if he would ever have told me...I guess it's something I won;t know.
My husband says when she told him of the pregnancy he felt suicidal - he says he had been trying to end things but hadn't been able to. Her pregnancy made him feel completely stuck in a mess he'd created which just kept getting bigger and bigger - he felt certain I would leave him if I found out - that's how he has described it to me.
I know that he had feelings for this OW - she made him feel good about himself, they did fun stuff together, laughed and relaxed, there was no pressure from her (you kow the everyday stuff - cleaning, bills etc), no newborn taking up all her time and energy... and they connected on some level...it's a complex story, but my husband has experienced huge loss in relation to his mother and has no other family (but me & our son) - the OW's mother had died and she is all alone, no fam/sibs etc....so they had this 'sadness' connection and he felt she could undertsand his pain/lonliness. He WANTED to feel someone understood. My husband is not the type of guy to not have an emotional element to a relationship - I know that and as much as it pains me to think of it I know he felt SOMETHING for the OW. I know there is probably more to the 'story' - I know it was not always her who made contact again after a 'break'...but I don;t want to hear all that now, the main thing I focus on is that he is here with me, that he has asked me for a second chance, that he is doing all he can to show me he regrets the affair and wants our marriage to work.
One of the main emotions involved in all this appears to have been guilt tho - he felt guilty about treating me that way and guilty about 'using' her for his own selfish needs.
This OW sounds like she was in love with my husband and thought he would leave me for her. Her mother was in the same situation, pregnant to a mm...but he never had anything to do with her or the baby. I believe on some level the OW thought she would 'get the guy' - unlike her mother. I think she probably was attracted to a married man for that reason (even if it was subconscious).
Her closest friend is someones mistress (an interesting factor I thought)and has children - a family on the side with him....so maybe the OW thought she'd at least have that??
As with most affairs (from what I understand) they both were at low points when they met, they entered the affair stating that they deserved some 'fun' and happiness - that it was OK to be selfish....and that's what it started as. Some fun times, stroking each others egos, no real expectations and sex of course. But then, as seems to happen so often - the OW started to become more attached - he tells me she started to make more demands for his time/attention - was always jealous of the time he spent with me and our family, was always telling him how he was all she had. I understand she threatened to tell me of the affair a couple of times too.
My husband says he tried to end things several times - and had lengthy times when he did not see her, but for whatever reason they would see each other again - end up in bed...and the whole cycle would continue.
In this ladies mind he was going to be with her - and I think she honestly felt he was only with me because of our son (which he says he never ever implied or discussed with her) - and that when she gave him a baby he would leave me and have a happy family with her. So - when that didn't happen she felt "abandoned" by him. He says he was very clear with her that he did not want the pregnancy and that he would not 'be there' for her during it/after baby was born - but I think she still believed he would run to her eventually. I am just speculating - but I imagine many women in an affair truly believe they are "more" to the man than just some sex and fun on the side - that's why they put themselves in such a mess of a situation.
I know my husband feels like he was a real bastard to both me and her...but it wasn't until he was able to cut all contact with her that he was able to look realistically at the relationship they had - he says now that she was quite manipulative and emotionally guilt-trippy. He has also looked at himself - and why he was unable to say 'no' or be strong on his decision to end things - why he felt "obligated" to her as time went on. He needs to explore this more.He doesn't blame the OW for the affair - he knows he made his own choices and that he is the one who did wrong, but he has been able to look at it from all angles as time has gone on I suppose. I believe him when he says he no longer has any feeling for the OW.
I am 99% sure he has had no contact with her since March. She has emailed him twice now - with pics of the baby - and he has not responded. As for him having contact with the baby and not telling me - I really hope he won't do that. He doesn't need to. If he wants contact I have told him I will support that (as long as it's not with the OW) - so I hope he feels 'safe' to make a decision about that that won;t involve more lies and deceit. That won't be good for that baby either. I guess I have to try and trust him again, that's all I can do if I want to continue to try and save this marriage. I am not naive tho - I too worry he might feel the easier way to do things is to do it secretly, I know he feels terrible about the pain he has caused me already - and that he doesn;t want to cause me more. But, the reality is that we both have to deal with the fact he has fathered another child and no matter how painful that is, ignoring it or pretending it didn't happen won;t work. So - I hope we can deal with it together.
I don;t think my husband will act in order to 'keep a roof over his head' - I don;t believe he is with me and our child because it keeps things easy for him, we are more than a 'roof over his head'. Yes, he's lied and cheated - but we have alot more than that in our history - that's why we are choosing to work on and fight for this marriage. I don;t think it's as black and white as some people do when they write comments about affairs/cheaters etc.
I don;t agree with you tho - I feel confident that the OW would have stolen my husband from me quite conscience-free - had that been an option. She made it clear she wanted him to be with her. For a time I displaced my anger at my husband onto the OW - how could a woman treat another woman like that? etc....but I am not so angry with her now. I accept that at no point in time will the OW be able to understand what her actions, their actions, have meant for me. She will never apologise or admit to wrong-doing - in her mind she didn't do anything wrong - and she won't ever face the side of her that allowed her to put her usual morals to one side. She will continue to blame me for 'not being in-tune enough' with my husband, or say he is with me because of our child, or due to obligation...she may get angry with him at some stage...but she'll probably never look at her own role in it. So - I have no expectations of her now. I too hope she finds another man - an unmarried one - and that she stays far away from us.
Thanks for your thoughts on all this. I can only hope you;re wrong. Unfortunately I have learnt the hard way that loving and trusting someone is always a risk!
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reader, anonymous, writes (21 August 2008): I have my doubts on just how transparent he is being with you. When did you find out about the affair? After she got pregnant and he was forced to tell you about it? Are you certain that she knew he was married? Isn't it odd that the OW would say she felt "abandoned" by him? There is definitely more to the story. I suspect that your husband will have contact with this child but he won't tell you about it. He will do this to attempt to keep the peace with you at home. His "ignoring" the situation is to avoid further upsetting you. He will lie to you about it to keep a roof over his head.I doubt that the OW tried to steal your husband from you. There is no question that he lied and cheated on you. I am sure that he lied to her too. As far as “she gets what she gives out”, she is not the one with a husband she can’t trust. Hopefully she will find a better man. It shouldn’t be too hard.
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reader, anonymous, writes (21 August 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi all-thanks for more input - all interesting responses. My my - there are alot of you OW with children out there aren't there!! I haven't got alot of time to write at the moment - but wanted to say that at no point have I told my husband that he is NOT to have contact - I have tried to support HIS decision and have said that whatever he decides is best for him I will do my best to accept and support. It is HIM who at this point in time does not wish to be involved (although I can't say I am not happy with this situation) - this may change, and I often encourage my husband to seek counselling himself to really work through all his as I think he is ignoring things as it is "easier"...I don;t know. Anyway - at the moment the OW is staying away, I don;t think there is is any sneaky involvement going on. We are coping and concentrating on our family. We'll see what happens down the track I guess.
One other thing - to the writer who speculated about what "the wife" does on August 15th - there is no way I would ever harm this child - none of this is his fault and if he is ever in my life he will never know what I really think of his mother. I also have not had any contact with the OW and nor do I intend to - I am not a game player and I am not threatened by her or the "relationship" she thinks she had/has with my husband - I know you will think this wreaks of bittereness, but it isn't that at all. I feel quite confident that my husband never wanted to "be" with her...I understand and believe what he tells me about how it began and continued - the pregnancy was a huge mistake that made it harder for him to get out - but he has now and I believe he really does want to be in this marriage and in this family.
The baby the OW has had is seperate to all this - and is something we will all have to deal with at some point I know. I assure you tho I am not planning on any slinging matches with the OW - she is probably in her own world of pain already, she truly believed she had something she didn't and that she would end up with what she tried to take from me, - that must be hard to accept. I can't pretend to care how she is though - as far as I am concerned she gets what she gives out!
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female
reader, Nikki2033 +, writes (20 August 2008):
Why should you leave him alone? You two share a Bond together your son. I am quite sure you do not want to get entangled into their messes; but if you conceived your son prior to him and her getting married; why is she so hell bent on keeping him from his son? A father that wants to have a relationship with his child. She will undoubtedly regret this in the years to come and all she will be able to blame is Her own jealousy, hateful and spiteful heart; Mark my word although you have stressed that you don't want him in Your life no more than being a father to your son; he will leave her and find another that will love and accept his son, just as he does....
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 August 2008): My son's father is married to someone else. The wife told me to leave them alone. As soon as my son started asking about his father I contacted him. He sees his son behind her back and there is nothing she can do about it. She calls him every few minutes and asks where he is but he just turns off his phone.
I have no intention of taking him from her but I honestly don't know how she can live with that much distrust and pain. I really hope that she does not leave him because I don't want any of that. His marriage is my excuse to keep him at a safe distance.
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female
reader, Nikki2033 +, writes (18 August 2008):
That is so very true. They never fully leave the other woman alone. You days will be spent trying to keep up with his every move; thinking he has lied about going to work; trying to catch him off guard; monitoring phone calls and cell phone bills; empty threats( which is highly desperate threatening to kill your spouse if you find out that the relationship hasn't ended- dealing with that one now); removing things out of the house that he purchased prior to meeting you; hiding important documents all as a way to black mail your spouse into not leaving you. These are only a few things that my married man's wife has attempted and is currently doing. The arguments we have is her mental state. I have considered pushing her over the edge, so that she'll receive a trip to jail or the nuthouse, she is isn't stable and I don't want my boys anywhere near her...
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 August 2008): You know that your husband won't leave the child and mother alone. He will lie his butt off to you about it and see them behind your back. When you find out about it you will threaten to divorce him and if you do he will run to them. If you stay and you will, you will have to deal with the pain for a very long time with some slim possibility of acceptance and tolerance down the road. You may have trouble accepting the other child and end up a cold uncaring step mom that could harm an innocent child.
I think that YOUR options are -
1. Let your husband see his child and get allot of counseling and therapy.
2. Get a plan B. Start planning a way out and be independent of him.
3. Find a better man.
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female
reader, Nikki2033 +, writes (14 August 2008):
So very true. I am living proof of that; needless to say since my first post and trying to end my affair for the Sake of the kids. He is here with the kids and that of myself, because the thought of not being able to be a Real father broke him down; the break up only lasted one day and not even a full day. His wife is now making arraingments to run her household alone and to move on with her life; right now the only concern of all the adults involved is the mental impact it will have on the children involved. since we have been in heavy discussions and trying to put some things into action. We are considering counseling to deal with our issues that led us to cross those lines of No Return, so that this will be the end of it. I am not gloating, I do not feel good, but for all children to have their father is the Best outcome anyone could hope for. You should not encourage a Man to choose between his child/children for the Sake of any relationship; he will in return resent you for forcing his hands and a Real Man wouldn't choose between his children and a spouse, girl friend, friend, or family member.
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2008): One more thing, Sorry
Never let the other women see you sweat. Take the high road. If she really is manipulating things she will grow tired after time if her attempts are not effective. Work on strengthening your marriage by accepting and supporting your husband. You know that you want so much to make it work even if he doesn’t deserve it. He won’t leave you for her. In most of these cases it is the wife that ends the marriage.
If you keep your head on straight then your child should be fine. Children adapt much better than adults do. Protect the children from any fighting. Never speak badly about another parent in front of either child. Easier said than done, I know but necessary for the benefit of the children.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2008): Suggested answers
1. Don't lie to the child. The lie it's self will hurt just as much. I find it interesting that your husband would suggest lying to the child. Maybe that is something he is good at?
2. Allow your husband to be involved. He has rights to the child when paterinty is established, correct? The mother can not stop you from being involved as well. Get therapy to help accept the child. If you love your husband then remember that this child is a part of him. If you can forgive him then forgive the child he made. You would be fooling yourself to think that no contact will keep your husband away from the child. If he is human the guilt will build.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (14 August 2008): As the OW I have lost faith.
My boyfriend at the time neglected to tell me about his fiance. I got pregnant and they got married. I immediately filed for support. He wanted no involvement. For 2 years she tried pick fights with me. I never gave in. I knew she was hurt but so was I.
4 years later I sent him an email about his child. I thought maybe there was a change of heart. He responded and insisted he wanted contact with his child. After several emails he tells me that he loves me and wants to be with us etc. He and his wife have no children together. He wanted another with me. It was too much and I could not get over the past. I could never trust or respect him. He did meet his child but for only a few short visits. I will always beleive that his true intent was getting back into my bed.
She wanted to blame me for everything. She had no idea of the things he said to me. All the lies he told. He had her thinking that I tricked him, manipulated him etc. She even posted that I "raped" him. He is a 6 feet 4in former Marine. It was funny and sad. If she knew the truth it would put her through the roof.
My ideal situation concerning the father would be minimal contact from him. Emails, phone calls, a short visit. My child has a father figure in life and is doing very well. My child thus far seem content with having met and knowing there is a father. Life goes on.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (9 August 2008): My first affair ended on yesterday. It was my first affair of being the other woman. We have one year old twin boys, they love and adore their dad and so does my other children from a previous relationship.I met their father during a vulnerable period of my life( found out my ex had been having a long term relationship). I expressed to him how I felt about men that strayed on their mates. A close friendship developed then the intimate relationship started. We got pregnant very early on and he was there every step of the way. I wasn't by any chance his First Affair, he had numerous before I met him and it started within the 3rd year of their marriage.
When I got involved with him there were two other women in the picture. I bond strengthened so, that he ended those other affairs. He was the darling daddy when I boys was born, at the hospital visiting them constantly( they were 7weeks early and in the neonatal unit for a week). He assisted me in every aspect of their little lives to make a long story short. I am older I knew better, and we did have disagreements, mostly about how I felt being in a relationship of this magnitude. Karl split his time equally amongst Us and his other children.Karl and Theresa didn't have any children of their own.Theresa adopted his from a previous marriage, they at the time had been married for ten years, when we met. I tried to separate my feelings for him, because in relationships as this it's not wise to develope emotional bonds with married men. Due to my financial situation and his losing his job, I had to rely on government assistance( Medical and food); I was forced to take out child support on him, he knows why and he filled out the papers. I have always tried to respect his marriage( I know right, but I wanted to at least protect his kids and her feelings). Long story short, the papers arrived the day before Valentines and he denied things, due to the financial hardships they too were experiencing.His family and close friends knows about the boys, but I didn't want to disrespect her by allowing my boys to interact with their paternal family and they were still married and her not knowing about them.
Throughout the course of our two year relationship, he has expressed how much he loves the boys, my other children, and me. I would change the subject and wouldn't show any emotion one way or the other, until this past Fourth of July when he cornered me and wanted a committment and to know was this a Huge mistake and was he just kidding himself. I am 30 yrs old and he will be 43 in Sept; his older two children are 14&16 years old. I told him I loved him and I was fearful of being hurt. he stayed almost an entire week with no contact with his other family, we discussed him leaving home and how to break the news to her and the kids. I later had a change of mind, because I know first hand how that feels. I have always left the doors open for him to go back to his wife and work things out; he didn't want too.
Well about two weeks ago, while he was here, i told him we are either going to end the relationship, you can still have the same relationship with our boys and my other children; or I am going to contact her and its us and all 8 children. I called her, he wasn't mad, he stayed until the next day, when it was time to go to work.( I know I should have gone with him to face her- he says I should have.) I felt it wasnt respectable. I showed this woman the compassion and empathy I wished was expressed to me, when I was in her shoes. She resulted to degrading my character, etc, saying I had trapped her husband, etc. he knows that wasn't true, she threatened to kill him if he didn't end things with me; his other kids wanted a relationship with our boys, we continued seeing each other until yesterday. I couldn't take it any longer, because my feelings got involved and I told her we never ended things and to examine his neck and chest,e tc. She palced blocks on the phone so he couldn't dial( I have another number he calls) my number or I couldn't call him. We argued and had a lengthy conversation ending things, because of her temper tantrum. yes I am hurt, I told him, he would regret it, because those same issues that led him to stray in the first place would resurface after she felt she won; and it won't be me, but another woman shortly.
I don't feel their marriage is repairable, I know he's doing it for his older kids, and other married women in my circle told me not to give up on him; he says I have given up on him. I don't see it that way, I never want him to be in a position to choose between his children, neither am I going to wait until they are 18.
We have crossed those lines and it's all or nothing. I have made sacrifices to continue in this relationship, more than I care to go into detail about, but my ex-a nd his family are pure h***, and basically have tried to destroy this man; we have weathered many storms that has formed a bond between us, that would be equally as hard to break,like that of his marriage.
She cannot accept my boys( she doesn't have any children and can't). He loves our boys and are a major part of their lives and he loves my other chidren. He expressed how he has been bagged into a corner, doesn't want to hurt me, will I forgive him and not give up on him, how he still loves me, but she's forcing him to choose between losing his other kids, etc and being here with me. She's German if that helps,a nd he's Jamacian and I am an African American female. He's been on an emotional rollercoaster for the past year, due to being fired from his job, and is currently trying to sue for wrongful termination; his career was his life, then his children and it has broken his spirits. Karl, my mom and my grandfather are my Best Friends, we all talk about anything. He and her live in another city about 20mins away, and he has never tried to hide me, I have met former co-workers of his, I go with him to his part-time, we go to doctor appointments, grocery stores, on dates, etc. My family has met him, etc. I know that this reconciliation will not work. I am undecided as to whether or not I would allow him back, since this is relatively knew to me....Be Careful, I allowed my ex to come back over the five years of his affair and it never ended and it was even more women... I had enough and left. sorry about the long post, I tend to get carried away when I am emotional
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 August 2008): I too am in the same situation. My husband and I have been together 27 years and have three teenage boys. My husbands in in the service and our 16 year old is severely handicapped. Because of my son's needs, my husband has been moving around the past eight years while the boys and I have stayed put. This, of course, tore our marriage apart. My husband had an affair with a much younger woman for about a year during which time he lived with her. That affair ended and we tried to make things work but I just couldn't seem to get over it or control my anger. He filed for divorce but immediately decided that was a mistake and we put the divorce on hold. During that period, he had another affair. It was brief and not with someone he cared much about and certainly didn't love. Now, two years later, I just found out about the affair when I found checks to this woman for child support. He had hidden all of this from me for two years!
I want to forgive him. He is trying really hard to make all this up to me but what do we do now? I made him stop paying the support until we get a paternity test. He only spent a few weekends with this woman. How can he be sure? She had been blackmailing him for the money by threatening to go to his command and ruin his 22 year career in the military; and by threatening to call me and ruin his marriage. For two years, he's been eating ramen and living off credit cards and giving her all the cash he could scrape up to keep me from finding out.
So now that I know, what do we do? The Ow filed for legal support and we are waiting on results of the pat test. I will make my decision once the results come back. I am hoping that my feelings will become clear and I will just know what to do. But, if I leave him, I will have to raise my handicapped son all by myself and try to find a way to stand on my own. I've been a stay at home mom all these years. How do you start from scratch at 44?
Or I could stay and try to deal with this. How do I take that kind of pain? Do we pay the money and walk away? Do we accept this child as part of our family and risk hurting our boys? They are old enough to understand what their father had done and I don't think they will forgive him. It will tear us apart as a family. I think the boys will not understand why I would stay in it. I've always stressed to them the importance of trust and fidelity.
What is the right thing to do for all involved? I think of this little child who needs a father and will never understand why hers just walked away. WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO?
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 August 2008): Thanks for your advise anon - I can see what you are saying - and I too wonder if I can really get past all of this - I honestly don;t know. I am talking with a therapist weekly now - and it has been so helpful to have someone to say all this to out loud - she and I are exploring lots of different things - one thing being where I am in all this -as I think I kind of felt lost after I found out - and like I didn't know what I could do. I really think my husband needs to talk to someone- but he is in denial and being stubborn...which may hinder any healing anyway.
I can understand what you are saying though - the pain of that betrayal is so awful I can't imagine it ever being fully forgotten, even now I have days when it hits me in the face again...but these are less frequent now. I am trying to focus on me and what I want for my future...but although things are going ok mostly with my husband, they aren't perfect - still lots of "stuff" there that needs to be dealt with. There are days I think the best option for me, and my son, would be to let this marriage go...I just don;t know.
You say you can't turn back - but that's not true. If you really can't move forward then maybe you should think about leaving now - you deserve a chance to be happy and to be loved the way you want to be...don;t stay if you're not happy and don;t see that changing, life is too short!
I hate that there are so many of us on here who have had our hearts broken and lives shattered - it makes it hard to see the world positively sometimes doesn't it.
Sending big hugs your way.
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reader, anonymous, writes (1 August 2008): hello
the only advice i can give you is be very sure you are able to deal with the situation,i thought i could and tried to forgive my hubby by blocking it all out
but it does not work, like you i too have a son. I find it difficult when his daughter comes i know its not her falt but it is a reminder of the betrayal and what he did to me. i try to keep everyone happy so i don't tell my husband my feelings.I still cry like it just happend. if i had more time to think with a clear head maybe i would have done things differently.
Take your time cause once you have made that choice it very hard to go back like me.
good luck and all the beast
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionha! sideho - that's hilarious...I'll use that! ;-)
Hey - I always thought I wouldn't give my man a second chance if he ever strayed - but things aren't always black and white. Thanks for your answer!
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 July 2008): I give you kudos because I would drop my husband if something significant like this happened. He'd have to repent day and night and even then I wouldn't be happy. I would not even stress myself about this situation. He created it and thus he should fix it. I'd tell him he needs to fix it and if not he better keep a bag or two fixed. This woman is going to continue to infringe on your family. Only when she gets another man is she going to go away. Even then this is something you're going to have to deal with for the rest of your life. You can try and block out the this OW as much as possible, but she is always going to be there. Your husband cannot forget his duty as a father. He had the guts to go out and make a child, he needs to have the guts to raise it. I have told my husband if he ever cheats he better know 100% we are getting divorced! I definitely am not dealing with his drama, sideho, or any outside child.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMe again, I accidently posted that before finishing my response! I'll continue;
This OW never wanted to deal with me at all which I am glad of - she kept trying to make contact with my husband though- knowing he is quite easily emotionally triggered - she wanted him and his attention - and to keep me in the background, like "their stuff" was not my business. He tells me she was actually very jealous of me and the time/care he gave me and would berate him about this all the time - as if he owed her more. I think she would have been content for my husband to have a little 'family on the side' with her - except that I wasn't up for that!! Nor was my husband. She had the audacity to say that surely me forgiving him the affair should also include forgiving the consequences and that I should allow him to spend time with her and their child!
I think my husband needed to break all contact with her to be able to honestly look at the relationship they had had - it was not until he cut off from her that he was able to really explore the range of emotions he had - he had been filled with guilt at "abandoning" her - and the baby, she had seen to that. Once he stopped the contact, and she wasn't able to emotionally blackmail and manipulate him - he was able to see her for what she was more clearly. That is when he was able to express his anger at her and how she has behaved. He is angry at himself too - he knows it was not all 'her'.
I guess what I am saying is - that despite what your husband feels he wants to do re. this OW's baby, it is my belief that whilever she has access to him you will have problems. I think the contact has to stop full stop - it just perpetuates the mistrust and pain and you and he cannot move forward. You and your husband should seek legal advice re the baby - and deal with the OW through a solicitor. This will make a big difference trust me.
I can understand how you feel so hopeless right now though - and like leaving is the only way forward for you - the pain of the baby, the betrayal and all that goes with it seems too much to bear. I felt like that too - and was so close to giving up. But I decided that I did still love him, and believed him when he said he was so sorry and wanted to be with me - that it was just a stupid stupid mistake. I decided to fight for what I wanted - even though there are days I am not sure I am being smart, or that I will ever fully forgive - since making that decision I have been so much better. Most days I am positive about our future. There is still so much 'hanging over us' - the other woman's son was born about 3 months ago, she made brief email contact with my husband when he was 10 wks old - he didn;t respond. That's where we are at - we don;t know what will happen with all that, and that is scary - but right now we focus on us and our child together - and repairing what has blown us apart.
You may decide that you can't stay with your husband - I could understand that - but once you make a decision one way or the other you will feel alot better.
It is good that you blocked contact from the OW - you do not need that, and she is just playing games. Just try to see that she has her own set of 'issues' and that whilst deserving of your anger - it will do you no good, she is likely to never see your perspective, or to admit fault - not like you'd like her to. Time you spend on 'her' is wasted.
I hope things settle for you soon - one way or another. Feel free to write anytime too.
To the second anon - who was the OW. Thanks for giving your perspective. I can honestly not imagine how difficult that situation is - what do you tell your daughter about how she was concieved or why 'daddy' doesn't live with you? This is what I think about with the other baby - what will he be told? And...what damage may that potentially cause? I feel there isn't a 'good' solution at all.
Do you and her father feel that you will be able to keep things secret/seperate indefinatly? It seems it is the children who wind up the real victims in these messes.
At this point in time, my husband does not want to have contact with the other baby - he doesn't feel like it's "father" in the true sense of the word, and feels it would not be 'good' for him to know about the mess he was conceived in - we talked about having joint custody and involving the child w our family, but both of us are not sure we are strong enough to do that, so kind of hope the OW won't like that option either. Things may change, bu right now we are having no contact, my husband doesn't seem to be struggling with this decision (he feels the OW will enjoy motherhood and be a good mother to the child, and prob meet someone else soon who can be a father figure...) he hopes the best for the baby, and is acting now in what he see's as the baby's best interest - even if it may seem horrible to not even see the baby.
We will have to see what the OW does - she may do her own thing, she may get legal on us -we;ll deal with that when/if it happens.
One question for you tho - are you happy? You have your daughter, who I know must be very precious to you - but is this situation enough for you? Don;t you wish for more for you? For your daughter? Are you OK with knowing your man goes home to a wife and kids and that they get the whole picture?? That's one thing I just don;t understand about woman who become mistresses.
I hope things work out well for your little girl.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 July 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHello to the two anon ladies who recently responded.
Firstly to the lady who is going through such pain - with discovering the affair and pregnancy, and now dealing with the OW almost 'rubbing it in your face' - my heart goes out to you. Thankfully I have mostly been spared contact with the OW - when I first found out I wanted to go with my husband to meet with her, but she refused saying "she didn't think it would be constructive". At the time I didn't want to do or say anything in particular - I just wanted her to see that I am real, that I exist...she had forced my husband to remove his wedding band before entering her house - as if that erased me and our marriage from the scene altogether.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 July 2008): This is a horrible situation and I feel bad for everyone involved. This is a familiar situatuion for me, not because I have a cheating husband but because I was the OW. Our child is 2, and I have silently kept it from his wife because I can see no good in exposing him. He is financially responsible for our daughter and she knows he is her 'daddy'. I feel bad because of the affair but also I want her to be a wonderful well adjusted person. I tend to think that him having contact may not be the best option, because there is a lot of explaining that has to happen to family, friends, the child and their half-sibs.
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 July 2008): I am glad to see this post...the same thing happened to me. My husband had 3 month affair that I didn't know about. When he tried to break it off, SHE texted me to tell me! We started going to marriage counseling and he said he stopped seeing her, but he hadn't and ended up getting her pregnant...which we found out by her coming over to our house with a positive pregnancy test! She is married and has 2 children and now in the middle of a divorce. My husband hates himself for what he did. Realizes that he loves me and he wanted to start a family with me, not have an illegitimate child. (We were in the process of trying to have a child...it's been a year with no luck yet) Yesterday she had her first baby appointment and called my work to see if I would allow my husband to go. I hung up the phone on her and filed a police report because I have had to change my phone number twice and email because of her harassing me. He didn't go to the appoinment, but did talk to her on the phone about it. This deeply hurt me. Mostly because for 12 years we have have dreams of starting a family and for the past year we have tried..with no luck and was going to start fertility pills right before I found out. After I realized the deep emotional pain from him giving away our first child to someone else, I called a lawyer. I still love him. I don't want to divorce him, but I see no other way for anyone involved. I can't take the pain, he wants invovlment, and she is very manipulative and conniving in everything she does. She also had the nerve to ask him if I wanted to go to the appointment and asked him to tell me she was getting "fat" because of the baby!! She is just being meanspirited and trying to break us up. Any advice?? I hate this, I truly do.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm sorry, I didn;t realise there were new posts on this question until just now. Wow - thank you to all who have added comments - particularly those of you who have experienced similar situations. It always makes one feel a lot better to know you're not alone....although I truly wish noone else had to go through this!
First - an update. The OW was due to give birth in early May, so baby has arrived by now I assume. Since my husband sent her the letter - which outlined his feelings, regrets, anger, guilt etc - and the options re the baby (to accept it will be involved in OUR family if he has contact with it OR accept he won;t have any contact) - we have not heard anything. I imagine she has her hands full with a newborn tho - and sooner or later she will get angry and pop up again...but maybe my wish will be granted and she will just accept the situation and leave us alone/build her own life with her child!! (I;m allowed to dream surely!!)
My husband and I are doing OK - both talking, and commited to examining how this all happened and what we need to do from here on in etc...so in some respects I feel quite positive and close to him again. I also still feel scared to trust him at all...I think it will take alot of time before I can do that...but I believe him when he says he is commited to me and our son.
I have made good progress on being able to be angry at my husband - I still "protect" him alot (that is something I think I do with all my loved ones)...but I have gotten better at laying lame with him and not solely the OW. I hate her less and less - she obviously has some serious issues herself.
She is the child of an affair - who's father didn;t want to know her when she sought him out, her best friend is the mistress of a mm and has had two c;rn to him...so her "world view" was perhaps a bit squewed to start with. She has her own complex baggage that I think definately contributed to the affair...I fully suspect part of the attraction to my husband was the fact he WAS married....maybe in her mind she wanted to get the "happy ending" her mother didn;t get...who knows??
To the anon poster who talked about my hsb's 'role' - you;re absolutely right...as painful as it is for me to think of it - he definatly played his part in all this. If I had a dollar for ever time I have felt incredulous at his selfishness/stupidity re his decisions...I'd be on my own private yacht in the carribean right now!! I am sure he lead this other woman to believe she was very special to him (I know he cared about her - he is not the type of man to just use someone etc)...and she probably felt she would get what she wanted from him eventually...he has also talked about his inability to 'say no', or be honest with her - and his feelings of obligation etc...so he is exploring his own role in beginning and maintaining the affair.
To the anon poster who spoke of her perspective as the fatherless child and then the wife...my heart goes out to you. I do understand what you describe about feeling abandoned - and the sense of loss/emptiness that leaves you with...and it is not your fault at all. That is why I feel so much pain for this other baby - he is not to blame for the mess he is caught in the middle of...but yet it is likely he will suffer in some way shape or form. I hope not. Thank you for the second part tho - to be able to look at this from the other perspective would not be easy for you, even after your own painful experinece with infidelity. Thank you for caring and understanding the difficulty 'accepting' this other child would bring for me. I have taken on board what you have said.
All I know is that I am taking things one day at a time right now, looking forward not backwards as much as I can (it is harder some days)and focusing on healing me, working on my marriage and loving my own beautiful baby! If and when the OW re-emerges...my husband and I will deal with it then.
BIG HUGS to you all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 June 2008): I think my response to this really won't answer any questions, just reiterate some points already made by others. Nonetheless, here it goes.First, I want to speak from the point of view of that child. I was brought up knowing only my mother until I went looking for my father at 18. It was a lot of pain and agony that could have been avoided if both of my parents had acted differently before/during/after their divorce. Although I know him now, I still miss having a dad - you can't make up for years already gone by and what scraps there are now aren't even really worth mentioning. What is worth mentioning, though, is that there is a gap in my being that will always just be empty... never filled by anyone or anything and the time for it to have been in place has passed its deadline. Additionally, it hurt even more to know he knew of me, had another family (after my parent's divorce, fyi) and did nothing. When thinking about it, I still feel abandoned.Next, I want to speak from a point of view similar to your own, as a mother and wife who has had to deal with her husband's affair. My heart really goes out to you that the OW "accidentally" got knocked up. That was probably my biggest fear on discovery of my husband's affair. From this point of view I have to agree, as cruel as it is to that poor child, that you should think about your family, your son, and the well being of those two entities. She's played games and now her child and she will both pay the consequences, and thats a shame for the child, but that child is not really any of your concern. Confirm paternity, get it all legallly set, and let the past fade like a bad memory. Most of all, come up with a plan that involves minimal contact with that skeezy woman.
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reader, 4babies +, writes (26 June 2008):
I feel everything you are feeling. I just found out last year 2007 that my husband had an affair with our son's afterschool teacher's aide. I am still feeling all kinds of emotions ranging from hurt to uncontrolled anger to disgust and remorse. We have 4 children. We agreed that we did not want any more children. We were looking forward to our time together as our youngest is 10 and our oldest is 18. Oh yeah and the OW just turned 23 this year. The OW is immature, disrespectful and ignorant. She is the one who told me about the affair & from her own words she seduced him. She says she saw how he was a good father to our children, the cars we drive, she has seen the outside of our home & so she thought we had money. She states she was on birth control & got off without telling my husband. I am not solely blaming the OW as it takes two to tango. I actually blame my husband more as I feel she is young & ignorant & he who is 17 years older then her should have know better. As he definetly knows how children are made (she does too, her first child is by a married man). My husband is extremely remorseful. We are trying to work things out. We are seeking counsel from everyone from our church pastor, marriage counselor, books, lawyer, family & friends. The OW is furious that I didn't leave. She has told me that I should have left by now so she could be living in my home. I told her I would burn the house to the ground before she moved in it. I know not the most mature response but hey, she took me there. With all this said, we have taken what we feel are the proper steps. We established paternity - its his 99.99%. We established child support. My husband has agreed to secure a second job to make up for the income lose as our family WILL NOT suffer for his mistake. We have told the OW that I would be the point of contact for everything. She is not agreeable to this as she wants my husband to come to her home & visit the baby. We have expressed to her that we will only be in the baby's life on our terms. Due to the numerous antics the OW has done ranging from calling the CEO of my husband's job & telling him about the affair, to coming to my job repeatedly, to taking the baby to my youngest son's school & telling all the teachers who the baby's father is and many many more things. My husband has told her he does not want to be in the baby's life at all. He said she can receive the child support & that is it. Since he has made this decision we have not heard from her anymore. I know my husband, he can't stay away from his child & I don't want the child to suffer & not know her other family but we are afraid of the antics starting again. So my advice to you is to see the child only on your terms. You & your husband need to present a united front to the OW. She can have no power in your lives. Let her know that as soon as she puts her feelings aside and chooses to think soley about the child's welfare then there will be no contact. Make sure she understands that the child will be treated with love & care. We have told the OW several times that she & my husband are not a family, they have a baby & that baby is welcome to join our family. Lastly, pray, pray & pray some more. God can heal your marriage, your heart & your mind. Pray for the OW. Pray that she find peace with in herself & see the error of her was so that she does not continue to use the child as a pawn. Lord, I ask for this husband and wife to have strength & to seek your guidance. Remove any strong holds that Devil may have over their marriage. Allow this couple to remember their marriage vows and to cleave to those vows. You are a healer Lord and through you all things are possible. In Jesus name, Amen.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 May 2008): HiI am in the same situation, my partner had a 5 minute you know what and told me. Following this the OW told him less than 3 weeks later that she was pregnant. This has turned my world up side down. How you have dealt with a full blown affair I will never know!!Since her happy statement she has admitted to planning it. All he could say was that he didn't know why he did it! It would be easier to say goodbye and I have never been in this situation before but I know the pain you are going through. This lady wants nothing but in her words the CSA. It's the poor children who suffer through spiteful women and pathetic men!!Good luck
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reader, Showstopper +, writes (22 May 2008):
I think you should prey. You shouldn't have to go through this. How would you trust him again? Follow your heart. If your family is important to you than except it. You have to be STRONG,VERY STRONG.Good luck
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reader, anonymous, writes (21 May 2008): I am sorry to hear about your situation. I am in the same boat. My partner of 10 years had a 3 year affair with his "best friend" and had a child. I suspected there was a child a couple years ago after our youngest son slipped up and said something about the friend having a baby. I did some investigative work and he fathered a child with that will turn 1 this weekend. I am still working through my feelings over the situation because we didn't not have any more children after our 8 year old was born because he said he didn't want anymore. Clearly a LIE! Anyway, you need to think hard about your decision because the OW will always be in your husbands life and will always be trying to steer him away from you, when you have disagreements or he is just struggling with life she will know and play on that weakness. I understand the child is not at fault but the OW played with fire and got what she got and now should take responsiblity. My partner goes to see the friend and the baby on Sunday's - he only takes his oldest daughter (not mine) because she likes the friend and is sympathetic to his situation. The 3 boys stay with me and never talk about this child. I am not sure when the "sting" to me will go away but for now you must decide what your level of coping is. For now, I CANNOT have this child in my house, I barely can stand him going on Sunday's. We have not told my family about this child because they think my partner is not very good to me anyway but he has told his family and allows the friend to visit his family to show off thier son. Again, I just warn you to expect this OW to come out with guns blazing to try and pray on your husbands guilt,sense of responsiblity, ect to try and rope him into her life. If she didn't care he was married before she surely doesn't care now because she has him legally and emotionally bound to her for a lifetime.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 May 2008): So many good answers:) But i have my own part of the story as I've been through this situation with me being the child's mum.
It's not good for this woman to haunt your life, but you need to consider what your husband made her beleive during that one year when the affair was going on. Men enjoy tossing women around and when it comes to responsability they will just back off and that's when they get their wives to do the dirty work for them.
In a one year relationship you build a lot of feelings, and anyone who has carried a child in them know how important the bond with the dad is expecially when the child is kicking or being born.
Its not good for her to give you choices and its not even fair for you to give her choices. The child is both hers and your husband's and you want it or not he is responsible (as long as the child is his).
If I were you I would leave him to do the talking, obviously by consulting you beforehand as this won't make you look like the wicked step mum.
That child needs to know his dad, needs to be with his dad and his brother.
The only way you can reach an agreement with anyone of you flipping out is in court. That would decide exactly the best for this little baby but it would be very unfair for your husband not to have anything to do with this child.... it would be very painful for the child, for your own son and for your husband in the future.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 May 2008): Your husband should be involved with the child, this is your husband fault and he must face up to what he has done. Think about this poor child, born out of a stupid affair. I personally don't know how you can stay with him, yes I can understand forgiving an affair but being so stupid to actually get another woman pregnant? well thats too much. But it's your choice, like I said earlier, your husband should see the child and come up with times. The only way the woman will effect you if YOU let her and you feel confident your hubby won't fall into her arms again. Good luck
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 May 2008): Normally, I would say the child is the most important. Not that it isn't important this time however.If I was you, I'd try and think through and except what your husband did, whether you love him etc, and then decide on what option. I agree with you, she WILL play games with you. She'll probably try and make you jealous. She'll make you paranoid. She'll be generally evil. And although your husband has been a man since breaking up with her, they aren't the brightest.I'd talk to your husband about it, discuss your options. For you, primarily, option 1. She said she wanted a kid, you said yourself it wasn't an accident thing, she said she wanted to keep raise it on her own etc so she can. The only reason she's changed her mind is because you didn't seem to care.Therefore, I'd say option 1. It's not like it won't be loved. She'll scam your husband of loads of money though!
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reader, rcn +, writes (13 May 2008):
 The fact is, when court establishes maintenance, her rights to dictate if she wants the child around you run out. Courts set up visitation plans on the best interest of the child, not necessarily reasons parents may have.
If she violates the court order, she can get into trouble for doing so. If violations continued, your husband could file to have the child raised in your home.
In order for her to keep the child away from being around you, she'd have to establish that you are not of sound mind and could cause mental or physical harm to the child.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 May 2008): I gotta admit I prefer option two. But I can see how it would be difficult for everyone concerned (except of course for the child) It is better that the baby have two committed parents, and unfortunately for the other woman, you and your husband are now a solid family unit, which she must learn to accept. Somehow, I get the impression that you and probably your husband would find it difficult to walk away from this baby. Can it work, yes of course it can. I gotta admit I've seen it happen many times, no different from children who have stepfamilies. Seems to me if you can work together with her, you could be giving this child a great future. In time the pain of how the child was conceived will fade away.
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reader, PeterPan +, writes (13 May 2008):
 After reading you reply, my first thoughts are if you really care about the welfare of both children, I would recommend laying all the cards on the table in front of a child psychologist of some other professional in that vein and ask for their professional opinion. In fact, it might be worth it to get a few opinions on it from two different specialists.
...just a thought from a guy who has no children of his own, but thinks that this would be good to bounce off the head of somebody that really understands child development.
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reader, louweez23 +, writes (13 May 2008):
 I cannot imagine what that must be like for you. I would guess it must be very hard? The situation isn't that disimilar from a second marriage where there were children from the first marriage (of course the timing is different).Obviously, you do not want this woman to be a part of your life and I don't balme you, but unfortunately, it is only right and proper that the baby should get to know it's father.Your husband is quite right to insist that you be included in any contact you have with the baby.As far as the other woman is concerned she isn't really a threat to you. She 'accidentally' conceived a child with your husband and her manipulation will not be lost on him. Whatever she has 'done' to you she has done worse to herself because bringing up a child as a single parent is not an easy task. It will be her having all the sleepless nights and dirty nappies to cope with. Take solace in the fact that she has made a rod for her own back. Your husband clearly loves you and has already made his choice otherwise he wouldn't be with you now.Good luck with whatever you decide.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 May 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks so much to all of you who responded to my question - this whole situation is so awful that I have felt like I could talk to noone about it - and it has been quite cathartic to do that here. Thanks for your understanding and encouragement too.
I too have thought alot about this unborn child - the fact that he/she has been used as a "pawn" in this game my husband - and in particluar the OW have played. The fact that he/she has had no choice to be born into such a mess, and it seems whatever "choice" we adults make it is this child and my beautiful son who potentially will be most damaged.
When my husband and I made the decision to tell the OW that IF she was serious about my hsb playing "daddy" that WE would want access, it made sense to me - yes it would be painful to tell my fiends and family about my hsb's affair -but the child deserves to know his/her dad...and maybe being around our family could be a positive thing for him/her overall.... and I feel very confident that I would never take out my anger/hatred towards his/her mother on the child. (let me add - OW initially told my hsb she would let the child be around me "over her dead body"..?? note she has never met me, and then once it finally dawned that my hsb wasn't going to play happy family's with her she tried the "I'm afraid (me) will hurt my child", then when my hsb refused to engage in that she left it at "well I will have to think about letting you and (me) have contact"......she continually tries to demonise me, which I know is just her jealousy and own "issues" speaking...but urgh!!!
Then there is the "choice" for my hsb/our family to have no involvement...and we wait for an 18 yo to knock on our door down the track? What do we tell our son then?
That's why my hsb has said (with my support) that unless the OW wants her child involved with our family that he would rather she not tell the child about his identity/involvment with her at all...to spare that child feeling 'unwanted, abandoned' etc...we understand that growing up without a Dad will have it's own challenges...but to grow up not seeing him but knowing who he is, that he has a family/other children/knew about you....wouldn't that be more damaging?? We felt she should "lie" (I know, it is probably a bad idea)and say she had a donor or one night stand or something.
Get this...OW started a "diary" which she told my hsb was all about her feelings during pregnancy and about him etc...for her child!! Actually asked him to write something to the child. Do any of you think showing a child something like that would be OK? This showed me clearly what a manipulator I was dealing with.
I have rambled on....but truly am interested in your thoughts on the above...
the worst thing at the moment is that I feel this OW has all the power...she hasn't responded to my hsb's last email which outlined the 2 options...so I sit here not knowing what will happen...is she out of my life or is my life about to be thrown into even greater chaos?? I hate this.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 May 2008): My heart goes out to you. This is really a difficult situation that you and your husband are in. My advice is that the baby knows his/her father, no matter how hard that would be for you both. I know that every time you see that baby it would remind you of what your husband did to you!But no child deserves to live a life without knowing who the paerewnts are. You must remember that that baby did not ask for this, he/she is innocent. You must also remember that if you and tour husband share a strong bond with eaCH OTHER, THEN NOT EVEN THIS BABY WILL COME BETWEEN YOU!!! Hope this helps.
Charmaine
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 May 2008): This happened to mfriend. She was on a skiing trip with her husband when the phone rang and it was her husbands' girlfriends mother saying her daugther had just given birth. First my friend knew of any affair let alone there being a baby. They do not have any children of their own. Well my friend has taken this very well. My fried is very clever and suggested that the baby come and stay over with her and the husband to give the girlfriend a break. This happened a cpuple of times and then suddenly the girlfriend didn't like it any more. She assumed that 'the husband' would have left his wife and gone off with her. My friend doesn't like it but puts up with it as she loves her husband and he apparently is sorry for what he did. Now the husband goes over every Tuesday to see the baby and the girlfriend goes out with her friends. He wants to be involved even more so if he can and this makes it very hard on my friend but she acepts that it has happended and gets on with things. She is great and says that it's not the baby's fault. I would lay down a set of times etc for your husband to go over try to get her to let te baby come to you bot too ( if she is young she will probably leap at this offer) and get a paternity test as suggested if there is any doubt in your husband's mind whatsover as some women are very sneaky. Good luck
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (12 May 2008):
 I'd get some legal advice on this so you can have a handle on the future. The child deserves to know his/her father but it can be on YOUR terms. RCN is absolutely right about the paternity test as well. Once you have determined that then support and visitation rights can be set up so that there is minimal contact with the other woman. She has rights but so do you and your husband and only a lawyer can spell them out and get it documented so she won't be able to pull the rug out from underneath you guys later down the road. She sounds just like the kind to try it. Good luck and keep us posted.
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reader, Twirly +, writes (12 May 2008):
 Ooo Im really not sure either way but wanted to come on and say what an amazing lady you are, and how lucky your husband is.
I agree with rcn regarding the paternity test, and can't believe this woman initially offered to abort the child if your husband left you, what a horrible person to suggest that and to use an unborn child as a bargaining chip.
I really admire you for sticking by your husband, I don't know if I could have done! I wish you lots of luck with it and can only advise that you do what you think is best for you and your child, and make hubby toe the line to the letter about whatever you decide.
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reader, PreciousNY +, writes (12 May 2008):
I am so sorry you were put in this situation. I definitely agree with rcn......make sure your husband gets a paternity test first. If the child is his and you decide to go with option #1, I believe your husband can give up his rights as the child's father. I would think that if he does that, he wouldn't be held responsible for paying maintenance, but I'm not sure. I would speak to a lawyer and find out. If I were in your shoes, I would probably opt to go with option 1, but logically it is wrong. It's not fair to the child to have to grow up without knowing his/her father. The child didn't ask to be born and he/she will be suffering the consequence of your husband's actions. I grew up without my father, and it really sux. But only you and your husband can really decide what is best for you both. Good luck and I hope everything works out for YOU!
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 May 2008): Yes think of YOUR child. Do you want him to grow up in a family where 'this is my half brother from daddy's fling'Who's that woman? what her role in my family?Mummy whats a family?Go for option 1. don't feel bad its not your responsibility to mop up after your husband.Good luck
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reader, PeterPan +, writes (12 May 2008):
First, I'm sorry to see that both you and your husband have found yourselves in such a situation. I am sure that both of you are going through a lot of pain right now and I hate hearing about bad news like this.
I agree that the OW would be haunting you for years to come. She obviously was trying to entrap your husband with blackmail style tactics. If she's tried that kind of thing already, it could easily escalate into something much more grand in the future (and I shutter to think what that might be).
I think that your best option is #1, although it's not in the child's best interest, but in yours. Further, if you do this or some other option, I would seriously consider having some kind of legal document drawn up between your husband and the OW.
My heart goes out to you and your husband.
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reader, rcn +, writes (12 May 2008):
I believe the father should have contact with the child. He's the father and it would be not proper to request he do otherwise. This is a child. Working with couples, children grow up happier knowing both parents, even in separate households.
It's better to take care of all this at the beginning, than later. Lets say, with how strange her behavior is, 5 years go by. She, for some reason impliments him as being the father. He then would receive an order to be tested. If shown he is the father, he now has current maintenance + 5 years back maintenance.
I highly recommend a paternity test be done. I have seen some cases where someone has been implimented as the father, then later finding out the mother was playing with others as well, and he was not the father.
Any other questions, look to your laws. Contact someone who works with custody to assit you with your answers.
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