A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:Hi, I'm a guy in my early 30's and I'm in love with my business partner.I took over the business that we both worked for shortly after she joined. I didn't start having feelings for her for a year or so, but when she split up with her partner of five years, she really came out of her shell and I discovered what a wonderful person she is. I realised that I had fallen for her while I was with another girl, and inevitably the relationship ended shortly afterwards. A month or so later, I had a party at my house and she was there. Abetted by alcohol, I managed to forget that I was her boss and we kissed. Unfortunately, one of her housemates was there too and he had become very drunk and puked everywhere, so she and the other people she lived with had to go home with him.I sent her a text the next day to test the water, and after a brief exchange, she told me that although she liked me, she didn't think that we should take things further because we worked together etc.That was all about four years ago. I stayed single for a couple of years because I simply didn't have eyes for anyone else, but eventually I got together with a girl who I'm still with now.Recently, there have been a lot of changes to my business. I took on a business partner who essentially took my business from me and left me with nothing.I started up a new business, but with all the hassle with my old partner and the logistics of setting up a new shop, I needed some help. I decided that I would take this girl on as a partner, and I believe it was the right decision, because without her help I would be bankrupt now.Trouble is, I thought I could handle my feelings for her, but now I have come to realise that I can't.My current relationship isn't going too well, and I suspect this is due in part to me being hopelessly in love with someone else. My girlfriend is a fantastic person, and I feel terrible for getting involved with her when I really shouldn't have. I expect you're trying to form a hypothesis about my situation and why this girl may not want to be with me, and you may have come to the conclusion that I'm just ugly or something.Thing is, I don't think I am. I don't want to sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet or anything, but I've always had great success with the opposite sex. Unfortunately, this girl doesn't seem to like me in that way. We've been friends for a very long time, and we get on like a house on fire. We have a similar sense of humor and we like the same things. My current relationship with her as a friend is so good that I truly believe that we'd make a really good couple.I work with the public, and I frequently get girls flirting with me and giving me their numbers. In the past, I've slept with a whole hell of a lot of them too. While all this is very flattering, I'd give it all up just to hold her hand. I don't really know where I'm going with this, my head's all jumbled up, and has been for a few years now.I can't force her to love me, and if I'm perfectly honest, feeling like this about someone who doesn't feel the same way back is pretty unhealthy, and certainly not fair on her. I wish she had some fault or flaw that I could concentrate on to put myself off her, but unfortunately I know her very well and as far as I'm concerned she's perfect.I guess what I need to know is how to get over her and move on?
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2008): Hi Cowboy,
Just a quick note to say that I hope your doing fine. The Christmas season is a great time for giving presents and maybe giving kisses under the mistletoe. Just an idea, and it gives you a good excuse.... Take care of you...
A
male
reader, Cowboy +, writes (8 November 2008):
"I've seen cowboy in a million and one books, that's why I bloody certain that in this real life case he has to get the girl."
Oh ok, so no pressure or anything....
:oD
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male
reader, Cowboy +, writes (8 November 2008):
So, I'm a rake huh?
I have no idea what a rake is (except in the context of a garden tool), but I can infer that it is a Bad Thing.
The only thing I know about Mills & Boon is that my gran used to read them, but if this sounds like the plot of one of their novels, then I guess that's why they sold so many of them.
I know that my past, and indeed some aspects of my current behaviour have met with some disapproval, but I think I have some good points too.
As you know, I recently ended a long term relationship, the last year or so of which was devoid of sex.
I never cheated on my ex, as I would rather go without sex that do this to her.
I've been pretty promiscuous, but only during times when I have been single. I think that this is better in many ways than the 'serial monogamy' that many people choose instead.
When I'm single, I act like I'm single. When I'm in a relationship, I behave myself.
I don't think I'm a rake, I think I'm just a guy who isn't with the right girl.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 November 2008): I know what you mean bugs, I read the same romance books that you did. My favorite hobby actually. I've seen cowboy in a million and one books, that's why I bloody certain that in this real life case he has to get the girl.
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male
reader, Cowboy +, writes (8 November 2008):
Ah, I see. No. No romance novels.
I guess you think that this is what I'm normally like, because the only experieence you havee of me is from this forum.
The reason that I am here in the first place is because this is completely out of character for me.
If you knew me, you'd understand a little better, but the reason that I'm talking to a bunch of complete strangers about this is because it is so bizarre for me to be feeling like this that none of my friends would take me seriously if I told them.
I told one of my friends once that I liked this girl a lot. It was at the time that I asked her out before, around four years ago.
When I split up with my girlfriend recently, I told the same friend that the reason was because I still liked this girl, but I saw her eyes begin to fill up with tears, so I made a bit of a joke about it and changed the subject.
I know you women love all this kind of thing, but I really genuinely loathe it.
If I had the choice between being with her or switching this feeling off, I would choose the latter.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 November 2008): I have always read a lot of romance novels mainly because I feel I missed out on it as I had an arranged marriage.
Most of the time the guy is a rake with out an ounce of honor in him.Then he meets this special girl and he gives up on everything else.Changes over a new leaf(I hope that's a right phrase).settles down.has a passel of kids and lives happily ever after.Also the bottom line of the novel is that rakes make the best of husbands.
you are describing everything to the dot.so you do know about M&B.I don't know what to say anymore.am laughing my head off here.Its 8:00 am.I feel drained after reading your novel.am off for my porridge and milk.
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (8 November 2008):
Romance novels?
Never read one I'm afraid. Are you suggesting that I read some to get ideas, or was that a sarcastic observation based upon my predicament?
Let me tell you that I'm really not enjoying any of this.
This is not what I planned to happen in my life, and I'm not normally what you'd call a romantic person.
I don't believe in ghosts, and I've often joked that if I ever saw a ghost, I'd probably drop dead from fright because I would be totally unprepared for it.
That's pretty much what's happened here.
I've never really thought about this kind of thing before, and so I have no mechanism to deal with it.
I always assumed that the fat ugly people I saw fawning over each other and buying roses and so forth had just accepted that they could do no better.
This is something that happened to me quite by surprise while I was looking the other way.
Not exactly your typical Mills & Boon scenario.
Diovan, I'm still digesting your musings.
I am positive that I'm not frightened of commitment,in fact it is the exact opposite, because it is commitment that i seek.
I think that what I'm afraid of is that if she turned me down, I'd be condemned to a life without her.
At least at the moment I have hope, and I think that is what I'm afraid of losing.
Let me think about it a little more.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 November 2008): Am very sure that you are reading lots of romance novels.Who is the author.
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male
reader, Cowboy +, writes (8 November 2008):
Incidentally, I'd like to address the issue of sex and love from a male (or at least my) perspective.
It seems that the general consensus is that I shouldn't be having sex with anyone else because of my feelings for this girl.
Allow me to elaborate.
I don't have to have any kind of emotional bond whatsoever with a girl in order to have sex with her.
I understand that this may seem unsavory to you lot, especially as you are on this site because you are caring people.
I'm sorry, but it simply does not work that way with me.
I have had sex with girls who get on my nerves, girls I hate, girls with whom I can't tolerate even a short conversation.
If that sounds callous to you, then it probably is.
I've had some pretty amazing sex. Some girls are just better than others, and I have occasionally had sex with two girls at once.
The girl I love is extremely inexperienced. She's probably had sex about ten times in her life. She's also incredibly shy.
I know that if I get together with her, the sex would probably be mediocre at best, at least initially.
She isn't exceptionally pretty if I'm honest, and she's a bit skinnier than I'd normally go for, but I still think she's the most beautiful girl I've ever laid eyes upon.
I've seen men 'fall in love' with women just because they found them physically attractive so many times it beggars belief.
Sex is not the only thing that's important, in fact I think you ladies are putting way too much emphasis on it. Pretty shallow really.
I can have sex with pretty much anyone I want to, but out of the 6.7 billion people who populate this planet, there's only one person that I ever felt this way about.
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 November 2008): Wonder when your gonna respond to me cowboy. It's easy to argue with things you feel comfortable with, but what about what I said, did you read it at all, did it make any sense?
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reader, anonymous, writes (8 November 2008): Are you reading a lot of romance novels?
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male
reader, Cowboy +, writes (8 November 2008):
The 'one of you did this to me' thing was supposed to be a joke dumbass, I'm no woman hater.
Yeah she's 18 (actually 19 this week) but she's no angel, she pursued me, and she's certainly under no illusion that it's anything but a fling. Not all girls are vulnerable innocent flowers.
I assure you, I'm already 'clued in'.
I'd like nothing more than to settle down with this girl.
I mentioned before that I would have children with her. I always thought that I never wanted kids, but a 'she'd make such a good mom' type thought popped into my head by surprise when I first started thinking about her in that way a few years ago.
Maybe that's just my biological clock ticking, or maybe it's something that I saw in her four years ago, but it's something that I haven't seen in any other girl before or since. I don't know.
What I do know is that if I was with her, I'd be the best boyfriend anyone ever had.
I went out with some friends earlier, and my mate came out for the first time since his baby was born. He spent the whole night ogling at women.
His wife was his first love, and he lost his virginity to her. That sounds perfect, but I know he's longing to know what it's like to have sex with someone different.
You may hate me for having slept with a lot of girls, but that also means that I have no curiosity left about women.
Maybe my promiscuous history is an advantage in disguise.
Well done for realising that I'm not happy, Sherlock.
While I'm not going to pretend that having sex again after so long didn't make me a lot happier than I was, it has certainly not elevated me to the level of happiness that I hope to attain.
As an interim measure though, it has helped a lot.
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (7 November 2008):
I didn't intend it to be an excuse.
Nobody is attracted to a misery guts, so I did something about it, and now I feel a lot better.
I'll have to hold my hands up about the other bit though I guess.
Go on then, you can have one kick:op
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 November 2008): Poor excuses!
"I decided that my lack of sex and not being with the girl I love are two separate issues, so I have resolved to deal with them separately."
Also the manual is written by some one who's been there done that.I am sure you must have broken a few hearts.Do not underestimate the power of a broken heart,an unshed tear, a swallowed sob.
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (7 November 2008):
Sorry Diovan, what you have to do is obtain their phone number and then send them a text.
You'll probably be horrified to learn that this is precisely what I did on Wednesday with T.
Before you jump down my throat, let me tell you that I calculated that the last time I had sex (before Wednesday) was on 10/06/07.
I decided that my lack of sex and not being with the girl I love are two separate issues, so I have resolved to deal with them separately.
Nobody finds a miserable person attractive, and I think my elevated mood and regained confidence can only be a good thing.
My first conversation with my business partner on Thursday morning resulted in her having an inexplicable fit of girly giggles and dare I say a little blushing.
I say inexplicable, because the conversation was about the dimensions of some sterilization pouches we had ordered.
The last time she had a fit of giggles like this was four years ago when I asked her out. If you remember my description of events, she thought about it over the weekend before telling me no.
I probably neglected to mention that during that weekend, we were actually at work together for a day, but bizarrely, we didn't discuss the text conversation we had been having.
Working together on that Saturday was weird to say the least. We were really busy so most of the day we didn't really talk much, but during one conversation, she did the giggling thing.
She gave me an awkward hug at the end of the day too, and I was genuinely surprised when the next day I got the text telling me no.
Absolutely inscrutable.
And Bugs, please stop kicking me, I was being satirical.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 November 2008): Bugs.. I'm still considering Cowboy's advice. I got stuck at "arrange a date".. I'm not sure how to do that. I come from the old school, Prince Charming arranges dates and things and chases after me. Does anyone Female know how to arrange a date, I'm old and I doubt I can learn these new tricks. Arrange a date.... mmmm.. you arrange one first with the lady, cowboy and then come back and tell me how it's done. :^)
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 November 2008): Diovan Poor little rabbit is so shocked and is seething that she wouldn't mind giving a few kicks herself to the cowboy- of course.
Guy are you for real?I never realized there was a manual for breaking hearts.And you are wondering why you are not getting the love of your life??Its Karma plain and simple.To think I tried to help you...I am the reader anonymous from 18th and 19th October.
Slamming the door double hard.
P.S:Fade I didn't cry on reading the quote only because Diovan drained all my tears out earlier with her answer.
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male
reader, Cowboy +, writes (6 November 2008):
Ok Diovan, here's what you do....
It's pretty easy as long as you follow a few simple rules.
Arrange a date. This part should be easy because you are a woman.
When you first meet them, ensure that you make it very clear early on that you don't want a relationship.
They will agree with you, whether or not they really mean it.
Have sex with them a few times, (four or five is about right) leaving about a week in between.
You may want to have a couple on the go so you don't have to wait a week yourself.
After about four or five dates, they will give you an adoring look. Look out for a serene facial expression, big puppy dog eyes, and perhaps a sentimental smile.
When this happens, you may have sex with them one more time. Maybe go for three hole action on this one. (actually, that won't apply to you...)
Do not under any circumstances arrange to meet them again.
Contact them a few days later and give them a lame but heartfelt excuse, for example tell them you're not over your ex.
If they argue, pull out your joker. You told them on the first date that you didn't want a relationship!
If you're lucky, they will take pity on you, and agree to be friends. You'll then be able to call them in a few months and do it all over again.
Just be careful and don't fall hopelessly in love with your business partner, or it will spoil all your fun and you'll end up on an internet forum whining about it.
Seriously though, love sucks a**.
I'd like to speak to whoever invented it and give them a piece of my mind.
Diovan, I still feel like crap, so I'm going to go to bed early and reread your post when my head is clearer. I've got a few more minor details to talk to you about that may be pertinent.
xxx
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 November 2008): Damn Fade, that quote hurt. I bloody hate love, it can really hurt. OK cowboy, I'm with you, let's ban this love thing cause it's too damn hard. Stuff and bother, love this, love that... Help me cowboy and I'll help you, I'll do the no commitment thing and you can show me how to play about and break men's hearts... Damn Fade, you and your bloody quote have made me cry (Diovanlestat stomps out of room to find poor little rabbit to kick)
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (6 November 2008):
Lol! Fade, I think you're over analysing again. No, I was not abused, and my mother is a fantastic woman.
That quote is pretty poignant, the author has hit the nail right on the head. Rather more eloquent than my herpes analogy,but the sentiment is the same.
Diovan, than you so much for your reply, it's very touching that someone who doesn't even know me would take so much time to try to help me.
I have a horrendous cold and I'm nearly two hours late for work, but I promise I'll send you a proper reply later xxx
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 November 2008): Diovan am sitting here bawling my eyes out,hoping and praying for this guy that he gets the love of his life.I have never read a better answer in my entire life.Hats Off!
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reader, anonymous, writes (6 November 2008): Hey Cowboy,
I've read all the answers in this very long post. I must admit, that now I have to agree with Fade.
"I think you are scared to mess it up and/or rejection so much, you invent these 'honorable' reasons to not follow through, commit, because your fear runs your life." Fade, 5th November..
You said it yourself, you don't mind playing the asshole with women that don't matter, you don't mind going on a date, with women who can give you sex but don't want commitment, but when it comes to a woman who knows you, who understands you, who might make you settle down, you make up excuses about why she's not the girl for you.
"I have perfected the art of appearing to be an a**hole, but unfortunately, this girl knows that I am not one, and thus I have no mechanism to deal with this situation.....I am incapable of being an arrogant a**hole towards her, which is probably why I am in the situation in which I find myself." Prince Charming, 19th October...
You keep talking about your work and your business keeping you apart. But you said before that you worked together after you kissed and although it was uncomfortable, you have continued to be friends and worked together just fine. Remember this is a woman who left her previous job, right in the middle of a recession to work with you, because you she believed in you. I don't think she's about to run out on you now. Anyway, you also said that it wouldn't be too hard to change your work schedule so that you wouldn't have to see each other very much. So I don't believe that work commitments and business are keeping you apart, I think you are running scared, and maybe you really don't want to settle down, because you are more afraid of being hurt, than you want to be happy.
It's easier to date women, who know that your just having fun, and can't expect nothing more. But with the lady in question you have to give more, you have to treat her right, you have to care and actually put your heart on the line. Your scared to do that, so you just put up barriers to why you can't be together.
Over, and over again, you have told us that this girl really likes you. She lets you see her sick, she tells people your great, she asks why can't more men be like you, she even approached you and kissed you, that night 4years ago. But this is not enough, you keep telling yourself that you don't know what she wants. She has stayed single for a long time, she dose everything she can to let you know that she is attracted to you, and you do nothing.
A woman doesn't leave her job to work for some guy, whose business might be a failure. A woman doesn't vomit or let some guy clean out her ears. This is not the behaviour of two friends, especially since one of them (her) is very shy. This is very intimate behaviour, something that I would only do with someone who I felt very close too.
She hasn't been able to show her attraction to you. Your either out dating girls who just give you sex. Or your in a relationship or you give her the cold shoulder and act like her boss. There is no way that she can approach you, and you won't approach her.
You don't have to do anything dramatic, you don't need to make any big moves, or big romantic gestures. Everybody knows your in love with her, everybody knows there is an attraction between you two. Paradise is right, you do sound like her guy. There are strong emotions, but you won't approach, sooner or later she is gonna give up hope.
I don't think she's single because she can't find a guy, I think she's single cause she's been waiting for you. Again Fade is right, maybe counselling really is suitable for you. Why won't you commit, why not move your relationship with her to the next level. You keep on talking about what she said after she kissed you. But bloody hell, that was FOUR YEARS AGO. People change, situations change, but you won't try again, you'd rather stay unhappy and alone.
Her behaviour may seem confusing to you, but it's as clear to us women as a piece of glass. You talk about moving to New Zeland (a joke) and she get's tickets for BOTH OF YOU, because wherever you are, it looks like that's where she wants to be.
What's stopping you, just ask her out for coffee, invite her to a movie, ask her round for dinner. You can start there, you and her are friends. Take her out, take her out more often, soon it will become a regular thing and then before you know it, you and her are an item.
Your frightened of rejection, but your not frightened of losing her, your not frightened of her moving on and finding somebody else to love. Why is that I wonder. Your was willing to give her up, but you only tried once to get her attention, and again I'll remind you that you said she kissed you, rather than you kissed her.
We're all waiting for a happy ending, but I'm afraid Fade was right, you'd rather be unhappy than committed and intimate with someone special. You only have one life to live, you refuse to make the step to get rejected again, well that is your choice. One day she will move on and stop waiting arround for you to see that she is in love with you too...
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (5 November 2008):
No, I'd be more than happy to date a co worker, but it seems she wouldn't, at least that's the reason she gave when she turned me down before.I've read the PM you sent me, but I'm going to reply to it later because I'm at work at the moment.x
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2008): PS: Yes Bugs, I know about the date. That's a case of man too scared to do the right thing. It's normal, that's what some men do when their in love. They go and sleep with a woman they DON'T love and leave the woman they DO love to stay lonely and wondering why... Men!!!!
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2008): Save some of that cowboy for me, I don't need to punch him, I've got a whip to keep him under control... Anyway, I'm still reading, there's a lot of information to take on board...
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (5 November 2008):
Ok, but you'll have to take a ticket and wait in line like everyone else :op
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2008): If the moderator doesn't remove my post again can I just go with the punches?
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (5 November 2008):
I haven't given up easily, it's been several years!
Iv'e been too embarrassed to tell anyone about it (again,the herpes analogy fits quite well...) but discussing it here has allowed me to collect my thoughts a little better.
Now I've had a chance to get my ducks in a row, I can see that there really is no way out of this. It's workable, but pretty inconvenient.
All that it really means is that I can't be in a relationship with anyone but her, so I guess I'm gonna be single for some considerable time.
This isn't really the end of the world, it just means that I get to have a lot of meaningless sex instead, which is no bad thing really.
Before you all cluck disapprovingly, remember that it was one of your kind that made me this way :op
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2008): Cowboy it was me who made the comment.I didn't think you read it.Diovan I was about to tell you that he was out on a date.I just feel bad that you couldn't even wait for some time for her.Almost everyone has a past.Its what you choose to do about it that matters in the end.unrequited love is the worst kind of punishment anyone can ever have.Now I am just feeling sorry for you.no more punches.
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reader, Cowboy +, writes (5 November 2008):
Someone made a post earlier saying that she didn't know whether she wanted to punch me or feel sorry for me.
The post seems to have been removed, but I can quite understand her point.
I think we need to straighten this out.
I don't want this. I don't like the way I feel about this girl, and I wish that I could stop it.
I liken it to a disease. I didn't ask for this to happen to me, and now it's making me feel bad and I can't get rid of it. If there was a pill that I could take to stop me feeling this way about her, I wouldn't hesitate to take it.
In a way, you could say it's like herpes.
I'm sure being in love with someone is the best feeling in the world if it's reciprocated, but if it isn't, it's the worst feeling in the world.
I didn't ask for any of this, but unfortunately it has happened and I can't stop it happening, so maybe you should feel sorry for me.
On the other hand, I haven't exactly been an angel in the past, so maybe my past has come to bite me on the ass, and perhaps I deserve this.
Some people, when they are miserable, like to sit around in their pyjamas and eat ice cream and cookie dough.
It doesn't solve the problem, but it makes them feel better.
I happen to prefer hanging out of the back end of a teenager.
You may hate me for this, but try to remember that it wasn't my first choice.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2008): I'm right behind you Eve, even if I'm a little bit late. Lets see how we can help him, it'll just take a while for me to review the whole story again... Ah well, it's better than USA election night....Here we go, only 63 messages to read.... (sigh)
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reader, AskEve +, writes (5 November 2008):
 So you've given up so easily??? Sheeeeeesh!
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 November 2008): I don't think that there's going to be a right time to be honest.Talking about it on here has clarified things a little in my mind, and I'm pretty sure my situation is hopeless.I'll never say never but if I keep thinking about it I'm just going to send myself mad.I have resolved to swallow hard, pretend I'm ok, and carry on like nothing happened. The Hank Hill approach, so to speak.In keeping with this philosophy, I have a date tonight with one of my customers.She's 18, very pretty, has huge boobs, and she's a dance student.Fade, if you're reading this, I concede that you were right about me. You can take comfort in the fact that my punishment will be to spend the rest of my career sitting right next to the girl I love but can't be with.I guess I'm better off just sticking to what I know....
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 November 2008): I don't think that there's going to be a right time to be honest.Talking about it on here has clarified things a little in my mind, and I'm pretty sure my situation is hopeless.I'll never say never but if I keep thinking about it I'm just going to send myself mad.I have resolved to swallow hard, pretend I'm ok, and carry on like nothing happened. The Hank Hill approach, so to speak.In keeping with this philosophy, I have a date tonight with one of my customers.She's 18, very pretty, has huge boobs, and she's a dance student.Fade, if you're reading this, I concede that you were right about me. You can take comfort in the fact that my punishment will be to spend the rest of my career sitting right next to the girl I love but can't be with.I guess I'm better off just sticking to what I know....
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 October 2008):
Nope, I only just split up with my girlfriend.
I think she'd be more receptive if I let the dust settle first.
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reader, paradise  +, writes (22 October 2008):
 Sooooooooooo, how are things going? Have you talked to her yet?
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008):
Thanks Askeve, that's nice to hear.
Since the last time I tried, a lot of stuff has happened, and I know she admires the way I've dealt with it all.
I know she's been singing my praises to other people, and I know from things she's said to me that I have gone way up in her estimations.
We're both single, and I know she thinks a lot of me. Whether she likes me more than just friends is another matter, but I guess only time will tell.
Maybe if enough time passes, I'll get over her naturally anyway.
Fade, before you say something unkind, think for a moment how nice it would be if it all worked out?
All of a sudden, the very things you have criticised me for would suddenly become pretty noble.
You have to bear in mind that I am not stalking a celebrity. I have genuine feelings for this girl based upon extensive real life experience of her.
There are plenty of pretty girls around, but none of them have made me feel this way about them.
This discussion has helped me a great deal, not necessarily because it has provided me with a solution, as I don't believe now that there is one.
It has forced me to really analyse the situation and clarify my thoughts.
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reader, AskEve +, writes (20 October 2008):
You're just stirring things Fade. It's easy to say what he SHOULD have done but the reality of it isn't always as easy. Give the guy a break (you're enjoying this aren't you?) If he tells her now, straight after the break up she'll run a mile thinking he's just chancing his luck and it's on the rebound. And I don't think it's a game by any means.
You've liked this woman for 6 years, don't jump in with both feet now. Be the mature adult and just continue to talk with her, go for coffee and build up that friendship. She's not attached and you're now not attached so have patience, don't chase too hard and just enjoy one another's company.
~Eve~
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008): Incidentally, what with the recession and all, business has been bad for the last few months.
My ex girlfriend, who now lives in New Zealand, found me on Facebook about a fortnight ago and proposed to me.
I certainly don't want to marry her, but I jokingly suggested that if we go bust, we should hop on a plane to New Zealand because it looks really nice, and she agreed.
When she learned that I had finished with my girlfriend, my business partner went to the post office and picked up a passport renewal form.
Thing is, it was while she was filling in the form that she was telling me about never wanting to have a boyfriend. Talk about your mixed signals.
I'm looking for some kind of signal that I should say something to her, but I get a strong positive and a strong negative practically in the same breath!
You women are so inscrutable!
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008):
I see that doing the right thing and finishing with my girlfriend has at least proved that I'm half serious.
I know it's not what you want to hear ladies, but to ask a man to abstain from sex for years is ridiculous. I haven't had sex for over a year because I didn't want to cheat on my girlfriend.
Like it or not, guys have an enormous biological imperative to put their penises into girls. I'm not one to argue with millions of years of evolution.
If you think this sounds callous, then I suggest you read 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins. Then you may understand that men aren't the a**holes that women sometimes think they are.
I would like nothing more than to settle down and maybe have kids with this girl, but if that option isn't available to me, then I have no choice but to revert to the default setting that is programmed into every cell in my body.
Don't worry though, you can be sure I'll have the good sense not to tell her about it.
I did tell her about finishing with my girlfriend, and she told me that this sort of thing was exactly why she intends never to have a boyfriend.
I know that what people say and what they do are two completely different things, but it didn't give me much hope.
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reader, AskEve +, writes (20 October 2008):
I've been reading this thread with interest. I don't think you're arrogant at all, you're just telling it like it is, I think you are assertive (just not regarding what to do in this situation). So here's my advice to you...
Okay firstly, you will NEVER get over her as long as you both work together seeing one another every single day. Secondly, even if she DID have feelings for you, she's not going to do anything about it when she knows you're still with your girlfriend, she seems too nice for that.
The solution? Either don't work with her any more, that way you can start to move on (which I know you don't really want to do). The other alternative would be to finish with your girlfriend and REMAIN single! You said you both talk every day, let her know you are single again and don't tell her about your sexual conquests (even as friends). It's no wonder she's reluctant to go there with you (if she felt that way), you'd scare the shit out of her with your 3-somes and the like.
If you want her (and I think she does like you, she thinks really highly of you, why else would she choose to work with you again?) then you need to let her see by your actions that you can stay single. In the meantime, remain friends with her. Tell her you're finished sleeping around and would love to find the right woman to settle down with.
DON'T jump in with both feet straight after finishing with your girlfriend (I just read you did it recently... well done there) and pour out your feelings for her as she'll only think you're jumping on her on the rebound. Let things develop naturally and REMAIN single and see what happens...
All the best
~Eve~
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008): I think I'm gonna bite the bullet.Thing is, I'm not too sure whether I should do it just yet.I doubt if she'd want to act on it immediately because she won't want it to look like the breakup was anything to do with her.Also, she knows my (now ex) girlfriend, and I know that a similar thing was a factor in her turning me down last time.Am I better off waiting for a while to let the dust settle?
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008): Diovan and Fade atlast we can see an end to this guy's pain.Hey Anon am pleased that you did the right thing by breaking up with your girl friend.go for it.Invite us for the wedding.If she has allowed you to clean gunk from her ears she definitely likes you as more than a friend.convince her that you are a good guy and are there for the long run.
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008): Right Prince Charming, so now the girlfriend is gone, there is very little to stop you from telling your business partner how you feel. I don't think you hate women, indeed I believe you are probably an easy guy to get to know and love. Tell the girl how you feel and hopefully you can write back and give us a happy ending to this story. I'm crossing my fingers for you, cause now it's only the fear of rejection that is holding you back.
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reader, paradise +, writes (20 October 2008):
Well, I need to say thanks to all of you, especially the original poster, anonymous, because this morning I hit my bottom with this fiasco at work with this guy that I'm attracted to, and who's been playing around with my emotions for six months now (and I let him do it). Reading all your answers as well as anonymous (you remind me of him but sounds like you have more brains and class), helped me get to this point which is really long overdue. I have a high tolerance for emotional pain but once I'm pushed over the edge there's no turning back. And you know what? I'm feeling better already cause my stomach doesn't feel sick anymore.
When he passed by me and totally ignored me and acted angry at me (probably because he saw me with a male friend on Friday), this pushed me over the edge. So it's okay that he's screwing a girl at work but I can't have a male friend. He thought he'd keep me on the back burner in case his g/f doesn't work out, which it isn't the way I see it. I guess I finally came to know what he's all about. HE doesn't want me but he doesn't want anyone else to have me. This kinda rationale doesn't work with me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!! I've had enough now and just can't do it anymore. I'll focus once again on the other special things in my life, and I have many.
I'll be staying as far away from him as possible, and would prefer he doesn't see me either. If he tries to touch me (one of his ways of flirting with me), I'll holler at him to NOT touch me and I won't care who hears me - he deserves to be hollered at! I'm not one of his toys that he can play with anytime he feels like it.
I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders and it's a wonderful feeling, believe me!! And I have all of you to thank for your feedback to "anonymous". And to you "anon", take some action one way or the other. Go for it, or move on! You might have to do what I did to the point of being emotionally exhausted. Go ahead and pursue her - there isn't a woman I know who wouldn't feel flattered by that! And because my guy wouldn't pursue me through verbal communication, we're done for good. THINK ABOUT IT! If you don't try, they'll come a day that you'll wonder if you should've. It's called foresight instead of hindsight!
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008):
What the hell are you talking about?
The only reason that I am picking the advice apart is that I'm only hearing repetitions of the same elementary stuff.
Has it occurred to you that I have been thinking about this problem for some time now?
I've already thought of all the obvious things, and they haven't worked.
I don't think I'm quite at the stage of needing counseling just yet. I'm also not an addictive person, I don't drink to excess and I never gamble. In fact, the fact that you think gambling is an addiction shows that you aren't quite as clued up as you seem to believe.
Gambling is not recognised as an addiction by the scientific community, because it simply does not fit the description of what an addiction is.
I'm addicted to nicotine, but that's it I'm afraid, sorry.
You'll be pleased to learn that I broke up with my girlfriend today.
I'm sure you'll find a reason to yell at me for that too...
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (20 October 2008):
 I don't think you want advice on how to get over your unrequited love at all, I think you want to entertain yourself and dwell on it. Good luck, this post bores me now.
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reader, anonymous, writes (20 October 2008): Wow Fade, that's a little extreme!You might well be right though, the situation in which I currently find myself is unsustainable.Paradise, I was being a little sarcastic when I made the apology. The general consensus seems to be that because I have slept with a lot of girls, I don't deserve to be with the girl I love, or my feelings for her are automatically not genuine.Part of the reason for my promiscuity is that I was unable to be with this girl, so decided to remain single for a protracted period. The way I behave when I'm single is different to the way I behave when I'm in a relationship.As I mentioned earlier, my friend guessed what's going on, and I spoke to her at length about it yesterday. She told me that when I tried to get with this girl a few years ago, she didn't go for it because she was friends with my ex.I had split up with my ex a few months before and it seems that loyalty to her was at least part of the reason why she didn't go for it.That's a real shame because my ex is a truly horrible person. I am very good friends with most of my ex girlfriends, but this one makes my skin crawl. Unfortunately, on a superficial level she's great, so most people don't get to know her well enough to see what she's really like.A lot has happened since that time, and we're a lot closer than we were back then. It's been long enough that her being friends with my ex won't matter, but as she knows my current girlfriend, she may have a problem with that.She's not great friends with my girlfriend, and only knows her through me, but she still won't want to be seen as the girl that split us up.I'm going to end things with my girlfriend today. I'm not looking forward to it, but she's a good person and deserves to be with someone who can treat her how she deserves to be treated. I might go ahead and tell my business partner that I like her, but explain that I understand that she won't want to enter into anything straight away. If she's cool with that, I'm happy to wait.If she's not, then my friend keeps pestering me to move over to Australia. Maybe I'll pay her a visit.
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reader, paradise +, writes (20 October 2008):
Why are you apologizing for sleeping with so many girls? It's no one's business nor do you have to answer to anyone for that. And you don't owe an apology either.
You're askng for advice, well here it is. You're gonna HAVE to do whatever it takes within you to capture this girl's heart until you're completely mentally exhausted from trying - or maybe you'll win her heart, whichever comes first. Psychology speaking you HAVE to go through this process. Forget about your ego and being rejected - what have you got to lose, huh?? Proceed with confidence and self-assurance, stay focused, become empowered by the fact that you're on a mission - to either get the girl or move on - and the process will enable you to move on with or without her in your life.
I have to say that your situation has really helped me see my situation through your eyes. You see, just maybe my guy is having the same problem addressing me as you are with your gal. He doesn't know me like he knows his girlfriend and he knew he'd have his way with her without having to work too hard and too long. I guess she is all he can handle for now.
GOOD LUCK IN YOUR MISSION. You really don't have a choice but to just do it!!
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008): ffs! I'm not a narcissist or a perfectionist, and I have not put her on a pedestal!Is it really so difficult to believe that I have fallen for a friend? Surely it must happen all the time? I've even read that the most successful relationships start with good friendships.Am I really so weird to develop feelings for someone over time? The first year or so I knew her, I didn't really find her all that attractive. It was only as she came out of her shell that I warmed to her. In the 6 years I've known her, I've had her yell at me when she is due her period and held her hair out of her face while she's puked. Last week she had an ear infection and I had to put drops in her ears and help her clean off all the brown gunk that leaked out. I'm not under any illusion that she's perfect, and if I had her on a pedestal, she would have toppled off it a long time ago. I'm not some idiot that treats women like objects and then discards them when I realise they aren't perfect.I know her very very well indeed, warts and all, and I still want a long term relationship with her. Is that really so hard to get your head around?
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008): I think you're missing the point, I have spent more time with this girl than probably anyone else I know. When you spend 8 hours a day in the same room with someone for 6 years, you tend to get to know them quite well. I'm not under any illusion that she's perfect, but I do know that her imperfections are few and minor.Is it really so difficult to believe that my feelings for her are genuine, and that I'm not some womanizing a**hole trying to add a notch to my bedpost?If you read my original post, you will see that logically I know that the best thing to do is to try and get over her, but I don't know how. I have not had one scrap of advice to this effect.I was expecting a few tips on how to get over someone that I care very deeply about, but instead I've been subjected to a character assassination.Typing 'GET OVER HER!!!' isn't really much help....This is supposed to be an 'agony aunt' site, but I guess that only applies if you're a single mother or a virgin.I'm very very sorry that I'm a man. I'm very very sorry that have slept with a lot of girls and I promise not to do it again. Now please, has anyone got any useful advice for me?
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reader, paradise +, writes (19 October 2008):
It sounds to me that she likes you but is probably being smart about not getting involved with someone at work which usually ends up disastrous. Do you think she would be interested in dating you if you didn't work together? Why don't you ask her, take the risk? I know it's hard because the time is gonna come soon when I'll have to do some risk-taking, I can see it coming, and I'm trusting I'll know within my spirit when the time is right. Otherwise I'm at a standstill and nowhere to go, staying stuck with alot of unanswered questions and all these emotions that build up and fester within me over time.I have personal reasons for not wanting a relationship right now which isn't relevant to the drama at work.My guy sounds alot like you - good-looking who has his way with lots of women - except for me. I imagine he can get about any woman he wants with ease, and that THEY pursue HIM, but not me - I don't chase any man! It's natural and normal for any man who wants a woman to pursue her - the challenge, the chase to win the prize. Nothing else works for the long term. I will respond to his flirtations to let him know I'm interested but that's as far as I'll go.For what it's worth to you in your situation, I found IT IS possible to get her out of your head. For me, I had everything under control until he managed to make his appearances, flirting once again with me. I was totally ignoring and avoiding him (after all, he was with her and I should do the right thing and back off). Then I let myself get sucked back in when he started wanting my attention again. Made me feel real good, yet I kept in mind his ego was just missing my attention. It's either time to back off once again or go for it next time.Watching him with his g/f is a real eye-opener, let me tell you!! It's become quite obvious over the past few months (which is how long they've been together) that his relationship (or whatever) with her has deteriorated significantly as I watch her becoming more and more withdrawn and miserable, and him only wanting to make his presence around her when he wants sex. That's how I came to realize that SHE wants a relationship and HE doesn't. Or perhaps he does want a relationship, but obviously not with her.You see, if I would draw a picture of a heart and put it on his windshield, in my mind and from a woman's perspective I'd be letting him know that I at least like him. But you are perceiving it that I'm trying to make him like me. So, because you are a man and I'm hearing your perspective then it wouldn't accomplish what I want to put a picture of a heart on his car.You need to come up with a plan. Do you really want this girl in your life for the long term? If so, then how will you go about it? Forget about your ego and being rejected - be positive, have confidence so no matter what happens you will get your answer if you just pursue her. If you love her then go get her, man, or you could regret it if you don't at least give it your best shot!! Either get her or move on, and you'll know what to do - but DO SOMETHING!!
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008): Have you at least broken up with your girlfriend.Its definitely not fair to her.Its not fair to all the girls that you have been with.You need counseling.No one is that perfect that you can't get over them.If you get married to her you will probably realize that she farts like the rest of us mortals.you are seeing her with rose tinted glasses.Once you see that she is normal the fall is going to be doubly hard as you have put her on a pedestal.concentrate on your business.make it a success.there are things more important in life than your obsession.Geee...you almost sound like a teenager.grow up.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008):
I don't think I'm the player that you seem to have assumed I am, but your point is valid.
She has witnessed me apparently growing 'bored' of girls, but the truth is that I didn't get bored of them, it's just that I started thinking about her again. It seems that I can push it to the back of my mind for a while, but it inevitably rises to the surface again.
I don't think the excuse of working together is such a lame one, because we are practically in each others pockets at work, it's not just like we work in the same building, there's no getting away from each other.
I wish it was just an excuse. If I knew for a fact that she just made an excuse because she was scared, at least I'd have something to work with. If I knew for a fact that she liked me, I wouldn't be so reluctant to explain to her how I feel.
Rather bizarrely, my friend phoned me today to tell me about a problem she was having. It seems that she's in an almost identical scenario with one of her work colleagues. He told her that he was in love with her, and he also has a girlfriend. The difference is that she does like him too but she's worried that he won't leave his girlfriend.
When she told me this, I explained to her I was in a similar situation, and was gobsmacked when, without hesitation, she named my business partner.
I thought I was hiding it well, but I guess not.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008): From the posts another conclusion is that she is not very experienced compared to you.Being a good girl and a little intelligent I can tell you that good girls feel scared of guys like you.We run a mile.There is no way she would have a relationship with you even if you are the best looking guy on earth or the most charming.yeah she likes you but would be wary of a relationship with you.you are right.The excuse "working together" is a poor one.but she hopes you will get the message that she is not interested in a relationship with you.Since you have been around you are going to get bored with her once you have had her.So please find someone who will match your character and move on.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008): I think you're focusing on that aspect too much.
I don't know about you, but if I had read a post like mine, the first thing I would have assumed is that the guy was ugly or lived with his parents or fat etc. I was only trying to make the point that I don't believe that she finds me repulsive.
She's not the only girl to have told me 'no', and nor is that the reason why I like her.
I felt this way about her for a long time before anything happened, and I thought she liked me too, so I was a little surprised when she turned me down.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008): First of all Anon I appreciate the time that you are spending so much time just in typing. From all the posts I understand the following you are very attractive, probably handsome (you owe it to your parents), have had lots of sex, have had threesomes, probably never heard NO your entire life from any female. You like this girl only because she turned you down. If she says yes to you now you are probably going to get bored after a few years. Save her the heartbreak and move on.
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008):
I've got to say I find it a little odd that you say that you want to have sex with him but not a relationship, yet you also say you love him.
Please don't think I'm being patronising because I don't know you well enough to judge, but are you sure you don't simply have a crush on him?
If you're sure it's the real thing, are you being honest with yourself when you say that you don't want a relationship with him?
The reason I ask is because in my experience, girls often outright lie about this. A lot of girls have told me that they only wanted sex, then made me out to be some kind of a**hole when I didn't want a relationship with them.
As far as I'm concerned, I was simply acting on the information that I was given, and if they lied to me then that's their problem.
Be very careful not to fall into that trap.
I'm not sure the rose on her car idea would work too well, I'm pretty sure she'd find that a little creepy. I take your point about making some kind of gesture though, although I do make little gestures all the time without really thinking about it. She probably interprets them as friendship gestures, but if I did anything overtly romantic, I might as well just tell her straight.
Romantic gestures are all very well under the right circumstances. If this girl left a heart on my car it would be different because I already feel that way about her. I don't think you can make someone like you by doing stuff like that. If they don't already like you, then they would probably just find it a bit creepy. If they do already like you, there's a lot of better alternatives.
How about leaving him a note instead? You could explain that you know that the situation is difficult because you are both with someone else, and you understand that it may not ever happen, but you want him to know that you like him.
Then tell him that if he doesn't mention the note, you'll assume that he doesn't feel able to enter into anything with you and there will be no hard feelings.
If you do it this way, you are providing him with an easy exit and giving him space. He'll appreciate that. Men like everything to be in black and white, and not to have to make complicated decisions. If he likes you, he knows he can act on it. If he doesn't, then he simply has to do nothing.
Compare this with if you made a romantic gesture, such as leaving a heart on his car. You are then putting him in a situation in which there is no right answer (because there is no question) and no easy option. He's then in a sort of limbo where he knows you like him, but he's not sure in what way, or how much. Because the heart isn't a question, he can't answer it, he has nothing to act upon.
He'll go to work the next day feeling uncomfortable, and maybe feeling obliged to have a conversation with you about it.
Don't do that to him. Tell him you like him, tell him how to act if he likes you too, and how to act if he doesn't like you in that way. Make the last one easy.
This will make him feel that he's in control, and you won't make him feel uncomfortable. There will be no guesswork involved. If you come across as a sensible, easy going person, he's more likely to be attracted to you.
Don't make unsolicited romantic gestures to someone that you're not 100% sure feels the same way, or you risk freaking them out.
I have a female friend who I've known for over a decade.
I received a text from her saying that she'd really like it if we got together (I was single at the time) but she would understand if I didn't feel the same way.
That was perfect, because I was able to send her one back saying that I didn't see her in that way because we'd been friends for so long, and I saw her as more of a buddy.
That was perfect, because she didn't put me in an uncomfortable situation. In truth, the real reason was that I didn't want a girlfriend because of the way I felt about my business partner. If that hadn't been the case I would have jumped at the chance to go out with my friend because she's a very cool person.
If I had wanted to be with her, it would have been simple for me to just send her a message back saying yes.
Because she avoided putting me on the spot, we were able to carry on as normal, and we're still the best of friends.
On the face of it, this method seems a little cowardly, but I think it's just considerate. It's not fair to put someone on the spot. Sending them a message gives them time to think before they have to answer, and won't make them feel anywhere near as uncomfortable if the answer is no.
Sadly, when I did exactly this with my business partner, the answer was no, which is why I now feel unable to ask her again. It's not really fair to keep pestering her if she's already turned me down.
She told me that the reason was because we worked together, but I have no way of knowing if that is the only reason, or if she was just being nice.
If I persist, then I am effectively telling her that I don't respect her decision.
Who knows? A lot has happened in the years since I sent her that message. With all the crap that's happened recently, I think I've surprised her a lot with the way I've handled things, and I know she has a great deal of admiration for me. Trouble is, that doesn't necessarily mean that she likes me more than a friend.
Who knows eh?
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reader, paradise +, writes (19 October 2008):
It's so strange how we can fluently talk with those of the opposite sex, EXCEPT to the one who we really like/love. There are alot of non-verbal message he continues to send to me as well as flirt with me even though he has a girlfriend and I have a boyfriend which, by the way, is driving him nuts. His girlfriend wants a relationship and he doesn't - he just wants the sex with her. And I want the sex with him but NOT a relationship - so, he definitely picked the wrong gal and now he knows it. But to this day I'm not sure he picked her, or, did I force him to choose her by a misunderstood conversation we had. Could be that he and I both feel we were rejected by the other and are therefore at a standstill with where to go from here because neither of us want to get rejected again by the other. It's very bizarre what's happening in this situation. Maybe I'll draw a heart and put it under his car windshield. Seems to me one of us has to do something different sooner or later.Now, getting back to your situation, if I were you I'd be tempted to put a single rose on her car (make sure she's not looking) and see what happens. Women just love that kinda thing, trust me!! My son-in-law did this with my daughter and they're now married with 2 kids. What have you got to lose??
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reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2008):
Lol! I like you even more now Fade! (no sarcasm)
You're right, I'm acting like a victim. I have a simple formula for attracting women, behave like an a**hole, but let them find out you're actually not one. I know that sounds horrible, but it's true that women love a**holes, but then try to change them.
I have perfected the art of appearing to be an a**hole, but unfortunately, this girl knows that I am not one, and thus I have no mechanism to deal with this situation.
I am incapable of being an arrogant a**hole towards her, which is probably why I am in the situation in which I find myself. I know for a fact that if I didn't care for and respect her so much, I'd wouldn't be typing this because I'd be too busy having sex with her.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008): Paradise, I thought I'd answer your question separately so you don't have to read through all my other crap!
The reason that I assumed that he isn't right for you is the way you yourself spoke about him. I don't know you or him, but the way you phrased things, it sounds like he liked you until someone that he considered better came along.
It's difficult for me to get my point across in text form, and that may have sounded a little harsh. It doesn't help that there seems to be no provision for me to type in italics. If there were, I would have italicized the part where I said 'he considered', because what a man considers to be 'better' can be a number of things.
I know that in the past, I have turned a girl down in favour of another girl because I was intimidated by the way I felt about her. Depending on what stage of life the guy is in, he may well have chosen this other woman over you because what he wanted at that time was something superficial.
We men are stupid in this way. Women are also capable of intense stupidity, but usually in different ways.
He's probably flattered by all this attention he's receiving from two women. Maybe he'll regret it one day. Maybe it'll come and bite him on the ass when it turns out he picked the wrong girl. Maybe he picked the right girl?
I think what I'm saying is, don't take it too personally. Men often turn a girl down because she's too good. I know that sounds like a cliche, but I've done it a few times. Men can get scared off by something too serious. I've turned girls down because I know that I'd have to work at it with them, when there's always an easier option available. Men tend to be scared of commitment.
The good news is that he'll almost certainly end up regretting it. Even if you would have been a terrible choice, he's with this other woman now, which means it's you that he'll always be wondering about. The grass really is always greener, and whenever they have an argument, he'll be wondering what it would have been like if he'd chosen you instead.
Who knows, he may even end up on this website wingeing like I am? :o)
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008): Erm, I wasn't serious about wanting to marry Fade, I was employing sarcasm. I also don't think she's obese, I was just trying to illustrate my point that you lot don't know me but are very quick to judge.I certainly have not spoken to this girl in such a condescending manner. You have to remember that we have spent a lot of time together over many years and she knows me very well. We've been through a lot of very tough times together, especially recently, and I know that she thinks a lot of me. I think that part of the problem stems from the fact that the title of my post was changed, perhaps to make it more 'juicy'.I wanted to ask the question 'how do I get over her', but unfortunately a mod must have decided to emphasize the 'I've got a girlfriend' angle.Diovanlestat, I think you have come the closest to giving me some useful advice. I think you've got confused somewhere, because she wasn't in a relationship previously, but most of what you say has rung true.Maybe she does feel that way, she's not very experienced sexually, in fact she's probably had sex about five times in her life. Although I'm not quite the misogynistic womaniser that you all seem to think I am, she may well feel intimidated.She knows that I've had a lot of sex and even a few threesomes while we've known each other, and I can see why she might feel that she couldn't compete. If only she knew how I felt, she wouldn't be worried at all.Fade878, you're right, I haven't explained what it is about her that I find so attractive. Most of it I can't put my finger on, but I'll try. She is one of those girls who is extremely attractive but doesn't know it. She's shy and vulnerable, but sometimes she's one of the most pragmatic and strong people I've ever met. She's intelligent, and has a fantastic sense of humour, we spend a lot of time laughing. She has beautiful brown eyes, and in the whole time I've known her, I have never witnessed her fart. Recently, I got f*cked over by my business partner, and I had nothing but a dream of starting up again. She believed in me and left her job to to start up a business with me in the middle of a recession. She's the only girl I have ever contemplated having children with. She doesn't nag. She looks sexy when she drives. In the whole time I have known her, I have never spotted one flaw that I think would cause a problem if she was my girlfriend.If you managed to read through that wall of text, then you will see that I have every reason to feel this way about her, in fact it would probably be strange if I didn't. Maybe she feels the same way about me, maybe she doesn't. Thing is, I already tried once and she turned me down. Is it fair of me to drop this in her lap?I have a responsibility to her as my business partner. If I were to put her in a position where she had to make a decision like this, would that be fair?The more I think about this, the more questions I have. In an ideal world, I would reprogram myself to not feel this way, but it seems that not only is this impossible, but also I have earned contempt for feelings that I have no control over.I finally told one of my friends about it today for the first time. I have to say that it was a cathartic experience. Even though he is good friends with my current girlfriend, he has advised me to end it with her and pursue the girl I really want. As I have already said, I intend to end things with my girlfriend anyway, because it's not fair on her.I guess I'm either going to end up extremely happy or extremely miserable.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008): Hey Guys,
This was what Anon had asked."I guess what I need to know is how to get over her and move on?".It was posted on 16th October.On 18th October he is sarcastically telling our Fade878 "What I do know is that I love you. I am completely over this girl now, and I want you to come over to England and marry me.".If this is how you have been wooing the girl for 6 years(arrogance personified) you have zero chances of making it with her.Fade is absolutely right.We do feel bad when any innocent person gets hurt.Your current girlfriend as you rightly said deserves better.
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reader, paradise +, writes (18 October 2008):
I'm really interested in knowing how you can tell "he's no good for me." I would value your opinion as a male.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008): Babes, this is an relationship and advice helpline, it's not really nice of you to judge us because we like to spend time helping people out. Every person, every situation is unique. Some people get warm words and sympathy because that's what they need. Others could do with a kick up the ass to motivate them and move them on in their life. Guess which category you fall into. We only know you by your words, and your words have created the image of you and your situation and so shapes the advice you get. Your right, I have never been in this situation before, but I don't like emotional pain. When I'm in it, I look for solutions to get me out of it as soon as I can. You came here looking for answers, and you've been given the same advice over, and over again. But your too deep into your own situation, you can only see problems and concentrate on negativity, rather than creating your own future and taking action to try to get what you want..
OK, Lets try this again...
I'm your lady, I'm shy and I've been hurt by men. I'm working with a nice attractive guy. I have a boyfriend, and he's not interested, so we are just friends and there is no problem. Now my guy leaves me, I'm hurt and devastated. I'm frightened to trust men again, I just want to be left alone. Now my "work friend", suddenly finds me attractive and asks me out. I'm confused, I've been rejected, maybe he just pities me and he's being nice. Maybe he can see my vulnerability and he just wants to do the sex thing. I'm not ready for all of this. It's too difficult, we work together, maybe it's best if we stay friends. So this is what I tell him, and things go back to the way they was before...
Now I notice that he likes dating and he sleeps and flirts with loads of girls. He doesn't seem interested in settling down. I was right, he isn't interested in relationships, and I would have been hurt when our relationship ended. He's a nice guy, but not someone that I could see as a boyfriend, he is young and single and likes having a good time.
I however haven't met that special person who will love the real me, and be faithful and kind to me. I've given up looking, I'm lonely sometimes, but I won't put myself in the position to ever get hurt again.
My friend finds a girlfriend, and he settles down into a relationship and he and her look so happy, I'm a bit jealous. Why can't I find someone who will love me like that...
I remember he once asked me for a date and kissed me, but I was right, he wasn't that interested. He didn't really chase me, I wasn't special to him, he was looking for some fun, and now he's met the right woman and he is in love. I wonder if me and him could have made a go at a relationship. Probably not, I wasn't special, I was just someone he wanted to date, not someone he wanted to love and settle down with. It was probably a mistake on his part. I made the right decision...
I hope you can understand what I'm saying. What if she is thinking like this. What if she is thinking of you and wanting you as much as you want her. She sounds like a decent woman, there is no way in hell, that she will come anywhere near you as long as you have a girlfriend. What if she regretted turning you away. I doubt if it will spoil your business relationship, it didn't before. Yes you will feel uncomfortable, but your uncomfortable now, so whats the difference. What if she loves you, is it sensible to stay away. We don't know how she feels, this is imagination... We are all waiting for you to leave your girlfriend, wait a while and ask her out and tell her how you feel... You have no real problem, except, yes babes, your scared of rejection, you would rather suffer than find out how she feels. That's why are irritated and offensive to you. You need to grow some balls and sort this out.
PS: If we didn't care at all, we would stop talking to you and leave you alone to talk all to yourself. The fact that we respond is evidence that we are interested in you and your problems. But we are women, we like happy endings. Isn't prince charming supposed to get on his horse and go after the girl he loves... STUFF THE BUSINESS, SORT IT OUT.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008):
Thank you!
Yes, we have no say in the matter whatsoever.
The first I knew of it was when I woke up one morning and realised to my horror that I had fallen in love with someone that I shouldn't have.
I tried to put it from my mind but was completely unable to, and still am unable to even after several years.
I thought I had been successful for a time, and entered into a new relationship. I didn't do it in order to get over her, I did it because I believed in error that I already was over her.
Perhaps the people that have judged me haven't experienced this type of thing for themselves, and thus can't empathize, but believe me, I never intended for this to happen.
Given the choice, I would choose not to feel like this because it is having a hugely negative impact on my life, and the life of my current girlfriend.
I could tell you that, from your description, this guy is no good for you but I know that will make no difference.
You're lucky in that he's done something wrong, ie choosing someone else over you. Could you try to focus on that to try and put yourself off him?
I don't have that luxury, the girl I'm crazy about hasn't displayed any offputting behaviour at all during the six years I have known her.
For all I know, she could feel exactly the same way as I do, but she's not a very forward type of girl. She's been messed around a couple of times, but hasn't ever had a proper boyfriend.
The only way for me to find out is to grow myself a set of balls and ask her out, but the implications of what would happen if she didn't reciprocate are too great for me to take this risk.
It's not like I could simply shrug my shoulders and walk away from the situation if she rejected me. I have to work with the girl, and we have many mutual friends.
Sometimes she'll say or do something that will make me wonder if she likes me more than she's letting on. She's a very shy person sometimes, and whenever she's liked someone in the past she's never acted upon it because of her shyness.
Unfortunately, there are certain emotional states that the human brain has no mechanism for coping with. The most well known of these is ridicule, which is a psychological tactic often employed by politicians because it is impossible to use logic to counter its effects.
Another one is what we're feeling right now. There is no logical way to cope with our feelings, except to somehow be with the person we love.
Unfortunately, if we pluck up the courage to act upon our feelings, we knowingly take the risk of experiencing ridicule, which is such a devastating prospect that we feel unable to take the risk.
Logically, the best thing to do would be to switch off these feelings and get on with my life, but I simply do not know how or even if this is possible.
I saw a documentary recently about a man who had been in a serious accident and had brain damage. He was fine, except that he was incapable of feeling love. Obviously this was seen to be a bad thing, but I just thought 'lucky b*stard'.
I know that's a bit extreme, and I didn't really mean it, but I really do wish that I could turn this feeling off.
Surely five years of suffering is enough?
I know you feel the same way. If your logical mind had any say in the matter, it would immediately switch off the feelings that you have for this guy, but unfortunately, that pesky emotional part of your brain won't listen, and for some reason evolution has chosen to put that part of our brains in the driving seat.
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reader, paradise +, writes (18 October 2008):
I just had to write you when I saw your post. Believe me, I feel for you and totally understand what you're going thru because I'm going thru the same thing you are, and shame on anyone who criticizes you for the feelings you have. Feelings are neither right nor wrong - they just are what they are. So what do we do with these feelings that can't be replaced - or if they can, I haven't discovered how yet and I've tried everything to change the way I feel.
I'm a female and work with a guy that I'm crazy about. I, too, have a boyfriend and thought having a relationship with him would help me get over this guy. It does help to some extent because my boyfriend occupies my time and thoughts so then I'm not thinking about the guy I'm crazy about.
My guy was pursuing something with me until another co-worker got jealous and now SHE is his girlfriend, although he still flirts with me and shows interest to the point that his girlfriend is very unhappy with this, and I can tell she really resents me. What really irks me was that she knew him for 2 years prior to this and never was interested in him til I came into the picture. I guess he wanted her and not me. Anyway, I'm thinking perhaps you and I can help each other by talking about it - certainly can't hurt, right?
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008):
Hmm. If you read the last line of my first post, you'll see that it says 'I guess what I need to know is how to get over her and move on?'
None of your remarks has even begun to answer this question.
And now you're saying that I have no balls because I am obsessed with her but haven't done anything about it.
At the party, it was her who kissed me first, and she didn't say HELL NO, she thought about it over the weekend before letting me down very gently, telling me that the reason was the fact that we worked together.
I could have pressed the issue, but I didn't because I had to respect her decision. I haven't tried anything since because I don't want either of us to feel uncomfortable at work. If that means I have no balls, then so be it.
I based my opinion that you may have gone easier on me on me if I was female on some of your other posts that I read.
Pretty interesting stuff.
I'd be fascinated to understand the psychology behind someone spending so much time giving such advice out on the internet for recreational purposes.
Is it that people don't listen to you in real life, or that by giving advice to others, you're attempting to mask your own problems? Maybe you gain a feeling of self worth by 'fixing' others. Who knows.
Since it sems that we're making snap judgments about people based solely on a few lines of text, I'm going to have to conclude that you have these problems because you are enormously overweight.
What I do know is that I love you. I am completely over this girl now, and I want you to come over to England and marry me.
You'll have to bring your own Twinkies because they don't sell them here.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2008): Jesus, sounds like someone has a chip on her shoulder.
I can't help wondering if you'd be giving different 'advice' to me if I was a woman.
Yes I'm whining, because I'm on a website designed for doing just that. I'm pretty sure I don't smell funny, and I can't stand drama, which is why I'm having such a hard time coping with this little problem I'm having.
I also assure you that I do have balls, and normally I allow them to do most of my thinking for me, which tends to work out pretty well most of the time.
Unfortunately, that hasn't worked in this case so I'm stumped. Have you actually got anything useful to say to me, or do you just troll this forum for sport?
I suspect the latter, which is a shame because I think I'm beginning to like you.
At least if I gain nothing else from this, I have learned the phrase 'munch my 9', which made me smile.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008):
I think you may have misread my posts, she was single when I asked her, and she is still single now, I don't go after attached girls.
I know I've come across as arrogant, but I'm really not. You have to bear in mind that I am typing this question to people who don't know me, so I wanted to be clear that I generally don't find myself in this sort of situation, which is why I'm having difficulty understanding it.
I certainly don't use women as toys, and she knows this. Sure, when I was single for those couple of years I still had sex, but only with girls that knew I wasn't after anything serious.
I think that your assertion that women don't find arrogance attractive is misguided at best. It may not apply to you or even to people you know, but if all you want to do is get into a girl's pants, arrogance is essential.
If I was capable of behaving that way towards her, I could get her into bed, but that's not what I want.
I'm not going to apologise for the way I behave when I'm single. I'd rather have been with the girl I love, and I tried to be, but since I wasn't able to be, I stayed single.
I don't see why staying single has to mean abstaining from sex.
She has also known me when I have been in relationships, and she knows that I can be a kind and loving boyfriend.
I will end my relationship with my girlfriend, she is a great person and doesn't deserve this.
I've read a few other threads on this board, and I'm surprised that I am being treated with such hostility and contempt.
I've read posts by women who've cheated on their husbands and tricked them into raising another man's child, and they have received nothing but sympathy.
I fell in love with a girl who I can't be with and after two years, I tried to get on with my life and slipped up.
Big deal.
I would love to tell her how I feel, but I have to sit in the same room as the girl 8 hours a day. It was humiliating enough the first time she rejected me, although she did so very gently. Going to work the next day was pretty hard and it's not an experience that I'm in a hurry to repeat.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008): PS: I know you didn't ask, but to us women you sound slightly arrogant, and you seem to use women as toys. She may have noticed this, you sleeping and flirting with lots of women, and this may have turned her off.. You are confident in your ability to attract, but for many women, this is not something we like to see in men. It can come over as big headed, and she may feel that you will mistreat her, or use her and dump her, like you've done with other women in the past. Women are funny that way. We see a guy flirting and dating lots of women, a guy who knows how attractive he is, and we stay away..... But go and ask her what she feels, as soon as you are free...
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008): In the two years you were single, did you actually tell her again how you felt. She was in a relationship and was unavailable, then she was healing and didn't want to date anyone. Then you start sleeping with tons of girls and was busy. Then you go and get yourself another girlfriend. You can't do anything, because you've got a girlfriend. Let the girlfriend go. Tell the woman how you feel. If she still says no, then she doesn't love you and you will just have to deal with it and move on. For some reason you think your wonderful and you really can't understand why she just might want to date you. Baby, maybe she just doesn't love you or fancy you. You could spend the whole of your life wondering, or you could stuff the business thing, tell her how you feel and sort this thing out for once and for all...
We can't really help you. We don't know how she feels because you really didn't ask her when she was available and able to love. Put us all out of our misery, sort it out. Find out the truth, and if she has no feelings, then try to accept this and move on with your life and find somebody else. Hell, your a grown man in your 30's, sort it out please....
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008): Thanks eyeswideopen, I think you're right. Only thing is, I thought I'd gotten over her before which is why I got together with someone else. It's pretty difficult because our business is quite small and we inevitably spend a lot of time together. I even considered leaving and becoming a silent partner, but I have spent the last 12 years of my life building the business up and I couldn't face leaving it.It's horrible, I'm normally very confident around girls, but with her all that goes out of the window and I feel really shy.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008): Ok, I didn't come on here for a lecture.I did try very hard to get over her and I thought I had succeeded. I stayed single for over two years, and I only got together with my girlfriend because I genuinely believed that I was over her. Unfortunately I was wrong.I don't know why you have assumed that I live with my girlfriend, because I do not. I do however believe that it doesn't matter whether I live with her or not, I do not intend to cheat on her. I don't choose to feel this way, in fact if I could stop it I would, and my original question was how to go about doing so.Ignoring your scathing criticism, you have managed to make a good point. While I was single I certainly didn't go without sex. I know you will be horrified when I tell you that I slept around, but that's pretty much what guys do. I can see how this would be unattractive to her, but at the same time, she knows that I am also honest about it and don't cheat when I'm in a relationship.She also often compliments me on this and has said 'why can't all men be like you?' and other similar things on many occasions.Although I don't believe that she disapproves of the way I behave, she isn't very experienced sexually, and may find my experience intimidating.I guess that's why I don't understand the situation. The way she behaves towards me strongly suggests that she likes me more than a friend, but it just doesn't go any further.Maybe you're right and I should take the risk. Such risks don't normally bother me, but because of our work situation, the risk is exponentially greater than it would normally be.I think it's rather unfair that you are judging me so harshly. If I was with her and felt like this about her, I'd get a pat on the back.
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (17 October 2008):
There is only time and staying busy to help one get over unrequited love. Sometimes people NEVER get over it. You may meet someone who will leave this object of your affection in the dust, who knows?! However what you must do is cut your girlfriend free so she can find someone who will truly love her and then you need to stay unattached until you are back on your feet emotionally.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008): Well, that was unnecessarily unpleasant!I understand that I have been a 'jackass', although I can't control the way I feel, believe me I don't want this.I'm sorry your christian- themed advice wasn't relevant to my situation, but I'm not married, I am not having an affair, and I'm also not religious.I thought I had got over someone and entered into a relationship with someone else. Unfortunately I was mistaken. I have not physically cheated on my girlfriend.I came onto this site to get some impartial advice. My friends tell me that I should dump my current girlfriend and try to get with my business partner.I did not come here to be insulted and criticized. I'm sorry you think I'm a jackass but to be condemned to being alone for a long time is a bit much.You don't know me, but I am actually a nice person. Unfortunately I have fallen for the wrong girl, but I hardly did that deliberately.Saying such an unkind thing to someone who you only know from a few lines of text on a website speaks volumes about what kind of person you are.I think you're the one who's going to end up lonely.....Has anyone else got anything a bit more constructive to say?
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2008): That's an interesting article, and I think a lot of the advice is very sensible.Unfortunately, I don't think that most of it is relevant to my situation.You have to bear in mind that I was in love with this girl for years before I met my current girlfriend. If anything, I feel like I am cheating on her with my girlfriend if you see what I mean?While I think the advice about putting up boundaries against the possibility of having an affair with a coworker is sound, I think it's already way too late to apply it to my current situation.We are already very close, and I think part of the problem is that I can't really get my head round why our relationship hasn't developed into anything more. Whenever I have been in this type of situation in the past, it's always developed into a relationship, but this time it hasn't and I'm stumped as to why.It's quite possible that she does have feelings for me, sometimes she'll do something or say something that makes me wonder, but I just tell myself that I'm only seeing it because I want to so badly.I understand the difficulties that a relationship with a work colleague can bring, and in an ideal world, I'd just switch my feelings off, but unfortunately it's not that simple.Also, if I look at it in a pragmatic fashion, it really wouldn't be difficult to arrange our working patterns so that we barely saw each other during work.I think it's too late for my current relationship. If nothing else, this has taught me that I'm not with the right girl. I stayed single for a long time after my business partner rejected me, because I didn't want anyone but her. I have now come to terms with the fact that I still feel the same way about her even several years down the line.I feel terrible about my girlfriend. She really is a fantastic person, but there's just something missing. I feel bad because I convinced myself to go out with her even though I knew deep down that I still loved someone else. I thought I was doing the right thing by giving up on her and trying to move on, but all I have ended up doing is being dishonest to someone who really deserves better.
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