A
male
age
51-59,
*onynkim
writes:I have been in a relationship with my wife now for 22 years. For 13 of the years we have been married. We are both 36 years old and we meet at school. My wife and I have 3 children. 9, 7 and 3. For the past 5 years I have treated my wife badly. I have on 3 occasions acted inappropriately with 3 separate ladies. The first occasion I meet a lady at work. We formed a bond and became real close. My wife found a text message on my phone saying ‘I Love you too’. After this I moved away from the marital home for quiet a few months. We sought counselling and through time we managed to reconcile things and we moved forward. The lady has since left my current place of employment. One the second occasion I was seen with a lady who my wife disliked. My wife had a gut feeling about this lady. This lady was involved with my son’s soccer team. I was the coach. We were seen together alone. As innocent as it was I except that I shouldn’t have been alone with this lady. We were awaiting the arrival of a third person when we were seen. My wife took this hard as her trust was already very fragile. But to her credit she tried to move forward. I didn’t have any feelings towards this lady. It was more the fact I lied as to my whereabouts. Which I did to protect my wife’s feelings. I should have been honest from the start and I except that. I believe I showed nothing more than bad judgement in not telling the truth to my wife on this occasion. I have since changes soccer teams. On the third and most recent occasion I acted inappropriately with a lady I meet in a club. I was there with a group of friends as it was a going away party. My behaviour was regrettable and I demonstrated bad judgement. As I sat talking to this lady (we were sat with a large group of people) we talked about everything from years married, births of our children (she had three children as well) we spoke about all honest and open family topics. But during the course of the night this lady became very touch feely and for whatever reason I didn’t stop it or her. I am again away from the marital home. With all these 3 women I have never ever sought anything sexual from them. After the first incident I sought help from a psychologist. She help both myself and my wife deal with issues and was a major influence on us surviving. After the second incident I was seeing a doctor or my own and she helped me deal with the lying and I was able to move forward. I only saw this counsellor a few times, on my own. My wife didn’t come and possibly didn’t know I was seeking professional help. After this most recent incident I have returned to my original psychologist and have gone on a mental health program. I have also been diagnosed as suffering depression (Im not taking any medication as yet). My psychologist has diagnosed me with a form of Attachment Disorder. She can trace this to my childhood up bring where I was raise solely by females i.e. my mum, nana, aunts ect (my therapist believes my mum suffers from narcissism) I had until recently a lot of resentment towards my mum. I had no solid male influence in my life growing up. So now she feels I can’t connect with males and this is the root of my problem. My Doctor has been in discussion with my psychologist and he is also agrees with her diagnose. She feels as a man all Im seeking is approval from these ladies. Hence me not being interest in sexual pleasure ect. I appreciate that depression and mental health isn’t an excuse or reason to act this way. But my therapist said they are an explanation for my behaviour.After each occasion I have sort some form of help. I would continually write letters to my wife explaining my sorry and hurt for treating her this way. I do understand that every action has a reaction and that consequences will follow. In my letters Im always apologetic and I promise I will never hurt her or our children again. My wife is now finding it hard to believe me as she feels my sorry and apologies are the same old continual pattern. And I don’t blame her for thinking that. She must have a pile of them by now. However I find it’s hard to communicate any other way when I have hurt her feelings.My question to you all is do you believe that after reading my brief history do you firstly believe that my mental health can be an explanation for my actions and secondly and most importantly... Do you think there is any way possible I can make my relationship work with my wife? I want to make it work. I don’t think its hard work or anything. I feel I have learnt everything about myself now and I can’t possibly hurt her or my family anymore. I have stood up and taken ownership for my behaviour and Im willing to do whatever is possible to improve as a person and as a husband. My wife is adamant were finished. Which I find really sad as I feel my heath issues do play a part and Im working as hard as possible to fix them. My psychologist has suggested I stop therapy as Im at point now where I have answered all my own questions and I have no more confusion and I know the direction I wish to seek. Im certain Im over my problems and Im feeling better as a man. Im embarrassed for the hurt I have caused my wife. Im shattered that I have done this again. I have thought long and hard about weather it would be best for me to walk away and leave her be. But my heart and my conscience is telling me to stay and fight for my wife’s love. I know that all trust is gone. And even with that Im still more than willing to fight for her. I deserve everything, Im not neglecting my responsibilities. I feel the pain I caused my family. I feel selfish for my behaviour. My wife gave me 22 years of love, trust and devotion. And I killed it. I want to make this right. I love her and I miss her. Am I ever going to work this out and more importantly am I ever going to gain my wife’s forgiveness. Im willing to work as hard as possible to make it all right. She is all I want.
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male
reader, tonynkim +, writes (10 February 2009):
tonynkim is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks Tomas. Tomorrow Im going to reword my problem and try and explain it without sounding selfish and clinical. I have learnt a hell of a lot today. With each passing day we can all learn something. Im hoping to make all this right. Thanks again and I hope to speak to you tomorrow. Tony.
A
male
reader, Tomas  +, writes (10 February 2009):
I'd echo some of Basschick's sentiments as well. Don't think that everyone else has perfect relationships and somehow you are fundamentally different. Everybody has to work at this, to varying degrees. Everybody hurts someone they love. That's partly why half of all couples that love each other enough to get married, end up hurt enough to get divorced.And the traps Basschick described are there for everyone. Female anonymous described the "relative" mindset for come-ons ("ew right?"). We all learn our own defense mechanisms. You can still learn these, and should. I've had a couple of female friends at work I've chosen not to get close with because they were attractive and either single or in what seemed to me to be shaky relationships. I had no romantic feelings towards them, but I eschewed their close friendships because they *might* prove a threat at some point in the future, either due to temptation or jealousy. Them's the breaks. I mention all this to make a distinction between what you can do to improve your ability to be in a healthy relationship, and what you can do to make your relationship with your wife healthy. A lot of couples who love each other get divorced when a child dies. It's not because they stop loving each other, but rather because the only way to get away from the painful memories of loss is to start over, losing someone else they love in the process. Maybe your wife is at the point she has to start over, or maybe she can heal enough to be willing to bear that pain to be with you.But regardless, I'd think your working on these understandings and skills will allow you to be a better partner for whomever you share your life with, whether it is her or someone else.Again, sincere good wishes.
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A
male
reader, tonynkim +, writes (10 February 2009):
tonynkim is verified as being by the original poster of the questionwow. Im lost for words. I honestly think you summed a great deal of me up there. Thank-you. I know its not about me and I feel selfish for using the words me, embarrassed ect. If I new another way of say I screwed up and I miss my wife then that' the direction id take. I will save what you wrote and I'll read it over and over. Thank-you for your help and thoughts
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A
male
reader, Tomas +, writes (10 February 2009):
tonykim,I appreciate that you've taken the time to spell out in detail how you see the situations you've been through. I'm going to try to be respectful of you by saying rather bluntly what comes across from it, in the spirit of trying to make sure that it is clear. I plan to throw a lot at you, some of it perhaps wrong (I don't know you), but it's coming from a place of "here is a guy who keeps making mistakes, and nothing anybody has told him has worked." So I think if it is worth trying to help, that help needs to be on the harsh side. Not trying to be mean, trying to help. And it'll be as long as your note.Here we go.What strikes me from your story it is about you. I see a lot of thoughtful excuses that explain the cause and effect of the problems you've had. What I think others perceive, that it's not clear you do, is that ultimately the reasons don't matter much at all (not just yours, anybody's).If you brought home a pet, and it tore up the couch, and pooped on the stairs, and bit the houseguests, you might understand exactly why it was that way (its breeding, its puppyhood, being hungry or needing to be walked). But unless those insights allow you to change the behavior, they are meaningless.It seems to me that you feel yourself entitled to whatever seems pleasurable, provided it doesn't break some prearranged rules. When it turns out that your actions hurt someone, you feel the fact that it *shouldn't* have hurt them is in some way a partial vindication, and then a new rule is added, and somehow the score gets reset.It doesn't get reset.I wonder if you believe at some level that, as long as you are making progress, making an effort, ensuring that any specific hurt doesn't come again, that this should be enough. Not so much that it should be enough for her, but that from a Life perspective, it should be Enough.It never is.It sucks that in life, we have to learn things by hurting people. It's like we learn surgery by operating on our loved ones. It should matter that we don't mean to hurt them. But if we make mistakes, and now they can't see out of one eye, our sorrow doesn't restore their sight.But it's because we recognize that our apologies and our remorse ultimately do very little to lessen the hurt we do others, that we work so very hard to not hurt people we love. We pass up on things that we might enjoy just because the idea of possibly hurting someone we care about is too painful for us. The empathy we feel for their pain (and its duration) sobers us.You may have felt entitled to a close emotional bond with another woman beside your wife, if it was not sexual. You didn't want to hurt your wife. But you knew enough to not mention it, so you understood it could be hurtful to her. Yet you chose to do it. You may have felt entitled to go out with a platonic friend in a group without having to tell your wife and risk unpleasant mistrust. But if you knew enough to lie about your whereabouts, you understood it could be hurtful to her. You chose to do it.You may have felt that you should be allowed a little flirtatious attention from a woman at a party, since you have no interest in her. But though you knew touchy-feely (making it cute doesn't minimize it) was over the line and could hurt the only woman you want, you chose to go ahead.You said your wife is all you want. I'd challenge that based on your story. You clearly want much more, and we all do. We'd all love to be adored, feel constantly surrounded by passion, be close to everyone we are attracted too (sexually or otherwise). Your wife may be what you want most, but she's not the only thing.I'd perhaps go further, and say it isn't actually your real wife you want most.You want your idea of your wife, a wife who understands your intentions and does not get hurt if you don't intend her to be. But that person doesn't exist; that's not who she is, and that's not who anyone is. And though you perceive yourself as learning and working on things, starting from a disadvantage and thus deserving of some credit/slack for trying, she may perceive you as someone who still doesn't get that you have a duty to find a way to protect her and care about her feelings as much as your own. And having seen you repeatedly fail to do so, she also now has a duty to protect herself from you. Still not seeing the danger you pose to her emotionally, it is not surprising that you "are willing to fight for her". A more appropriate answer would be to say that you know you are (unintentionally) emotionally dangerous to her; that you have hurt her and are likely to continue (accidentally) to do so; that you want her to be happy (because that's more important than your own feelings, if you love her); and that she needs to be on her own now to heal, while you work on you. (Aside - if you need to be on meds for depressions, Take Them.)The most revealing language in your note is things like "moved forward", "bad judgement", "for whatever reason", "inappropriate", "regrettable" ... these are the kinds of things one hears in a press release from the legal department of a company that has settled out of court without admitting fault. You can make a very compelling case for Not Guilty.I'm even inclined to think you are Not Guilty.But Guilt has nothing to do with relationships. You either take care of each other, or you don't. You find a way or you don't. If your new pet playfully bites at your child, you get your child away. You are the pet, the child is her heart. Maybe you grow up and become domesticated, and she'll be safe. Maybe you stay wild at heart. But you have to put the child (and your child) first.Whatever you do, remember it is about her, not about your embarrassment or your feeling shattered or your winning or losing her love.================Sorry to be so tough on you, but I honestly think that's what you need to hear. In any event, I wish you and your family the best, and I hope it works out well for all of you.
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A
female
reader, Basschick +, writes (10 February 2009):
 I don't agree with what your therapist/psychologist has determined about your behavior. There are lots of guys who have been raised the way you were raised and they do not have this problem. I believe you have self esteem issues, and when a woman pays attention to you, it goes to your head. Everyone who has been in a long term relationship is vulnerable to the seed of boredom. You get caught up raising the kids, your wife seems more preoccupied with packing the school lunches than she does when it comes time to have sex with you. Many men begin to daydream or fantasize about other women because they feel neglected. This does not justify your behavior, it only explains what I think is going on with you. Somehow along the way you began to disappear in the relationship. This is common because child-rearing is so all-encompassing and people always put their kids first. This usually leaves little time for the couple, so this the relationship gets sacrificed. Then some strange, interesting woman comes along and you go weak in the knees. It has nothing to do with your childhood, it has to do with your morals and your ability to recognize the "traps" that you are vulnerable and then walk away before you get in over your head. I am not suggesting that this is somehow your wife's fault, she has had the enormous job of raising your kids and putting herself into that job whole-heartedly. But many couples forget to take time out for themselves and the relationship suffers. They grow apart, they grow bored, they fall out of love -- at least temporarily. Romance and love is a choice. You must choose it every day, and work at it constantly. Like pruning a beautiful garden. Once you neglect the weeds, they move right in and choke out the beautiful flowers. This is what you have allowed to happen in your marriage and now your wife's mistrust is incomprehensible to you. Can you make this work in the long run? Only if your wife decides to take another chance on you. She may. She may not. Either way, you should be able to walk away knowing why you did what you did and how you can prevent it from happening again. I wish you the best.
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A
female
reader, wonderingcat  +, writes (10 February 2009):
 Just a suggestion: would renewing your vows work?... possibly this time with all the right words (and you mean every single word!) in front of your closest family members and friends. Sometimes knowing that you have all these people that deeply care for you can act as your own support group as well as your own "watchdog" in the most positive meaning. But ultimately, you are own own "watchdog" .... Good luck!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 February 2009): If you're REALLY serious to win her back. Then you must not date or be with a woman alone. What you haven't learned is appropriate boundaries with these flirtatious (homewrecker) women. You need 'a plan' when this happens again. What is your plan? I try to think of men coming on to me as a relative (ew right?), or they might have a sexual disease...thinking negatives helps. You can fight for your marriage with all that's in you, but it won't be easy. Like you say in therapy, you haven't had a male figure in your life. Well, why don't you find one? Is there a male mentor you trust that gives you good advice as a friend? I've heard this done before: if you're struggling in an area of your life, your guy friend/male mentor will 'hold you accountable'. This means he will ask you personal questions (because you've given him permission) if you are being faithful to your wife. It's a little insurance to know He will be helping you stay faithful.
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