A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:Hello,This is a bit long-winded but I hope you enjoy the ride. It's certainly been interesting for me.The backstory:I'm a 33 y/o professional traveling musician from the states. Three years ago I met a lovely 33 y/o girl in Germany and I asked her to take me on a date. It was lovely. We ate, drank wine, made out by the lake and I went home the next day.We kept in touch and she visited the states for a reason not related to me. I flew her to my state for four days, we made out, and she went home.I went back to Germany, worked, stayed with her for two months, we deliciously made out, I went home.She came back to the states for a non-related reason, I flew her to me for two weeks, we made out, I asked her to be my girlfriend, she went home.Two months later I came back to Germany, lived with her for six months, told her I loved her, made love to her, asked her to marry me, and she came back with me to the states to vacation and meet everyone she hasn't yet. I came back to Germany after a few weeks months of working and settling accounts at home and moved in with her, fully explaining to her that I plan to argue to bring her to the states because a) she doesn't like the states much and b) I love the European lifestyle. Last year I asked her to marry me. She happily said yes. We visited forty two jewelry stores to find a perfect engagement ring for her. I hate shopping and I hate jewelry stores but I'm glad we found the right ring. All is happy.I settled in a foreign country where I purchased a car, car insurance, local health insurance, visas, all the equipment I need to work overseas, and began investing in language classes. I also gave up my comfortable contacts and lifestyle in the states to start over in a new pond. I made serious steps into a total relocation. I realize I won't watch my nephew grow up and my contact with friends and family will be limited. I know the sacrifice and she knows the sacrifices I've made.And that brings me to our issue:I'm an athiest, she's a christian. We've had discussions about this many times and I agreed to let her take the kids to church, pray before dinner and bedtime, etc. I told her she gets first crack at the kids but, when they get older and ask why daddy doesn't go to church on sunday morning, I'm allowed to express my disbelief without prejudice. This is agreed upon mutually. I'm sure it's much easier said than done, however I think we're grown up enough to handle it.Her sexual history involves:a) losing her virginity at age 17 to her boyfriend, 30, who dated her for 10 years until she realized he was cheating on herb) a multiple meeting encounter with a local boyHer sexual history is quite limited compared to mine.Mine involvesa) multiple girlfriendsb) a period in my life where I had sex with anyone who gave me the eyeMy number is probably close to triple digits. I don't say that with pride--I drank a lot.My fiance began making love to me three years after we met and one year after we were status-official boyfriend/girlfriend. It was the longest I've waited for a girl since I was very young, and it was even more difficult knowing that she had a previous 10-year sexual encounter and, more difficult, that she had a fling with a local a few weeks before meeting me.Today we are almost into one-year our sexual relationship and one year into her wearing her engagement ring. We do not currently have a date set. The last two months I've noticed a complete lack of sex drive on her part to initiate things, follow through, etc. Just four days ago I asked her what was going on (after she didn't want sex with me between Good Friday, the Saturday after and Easter Sunday for religious regions) and she got very quiet. I doubted she would respond with "I'm cheating on you" but it feels like she did anyway.What she told me was that a few times after making love to me she thought that she couldn't wait until after the wedding to give herself to me fully. She told me there was something holding her back and it was her getting closer to God.I would ramble more but I have to leave.The issue is this: She wants to stop having sex until the wedding day (which has not been set). I told her after all my sacrifices (relocating, starting over with the job, language learning) it wasn't acceptable. It also makes it hard to reconcile this because of her past sexual experiences. Someone please help me. I've basically given her an ultimatum--don't give up the sex or I'm packing my bags.Advice before I go crazy?Sincerely,Confused Athiest World Traveler
View related questions:
christian, fiance, her past, moved in, period, sex drive, sexual past, wedding Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for the reply Cindy.
This certainly is a tough issue for me to contend with and I appreciate your time.
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (8 April 2013):
 OP, I atoned of my sins of omission:) and I have read all the thread head to bottom. It does not change my views.
Far from belittling the sacrifices and adjustments necessary to anybody who starts a new life in a new country, something that I am very familiar with, therefore unlikely to discount, on the other hand they aren't anything so exceptional or unmanageable or unheard of that they should grant you special compliance with all your wishes and special sexual privileges, it's something that millions of young ( and not so young ) couples ,and families, have done , so, frankly, and sorry if it sounds confrontational , that's not my intention, but, well, I do think you are laying it down quite thick. I mean, it's Germany , holy smoke, not the Darfur or the jungle of Amazonas. Regardless, and more importantly, even if it were the Darfur, it's a choice that you have willingly and freely made in your own favour- to get the woman you want. In fact, if you actually care about her so much to have gladly uprooted yourself and accepted a ( hopefully temporary ) income reduction , etc... but then you do not care enough to go without sex for a few months , in order to respect the Christian beliefs that you KNEW she had ( although she was not following them closely until now )... it does not make much sense. Sex is important, but in the greater scheme of things, and in view of having found the person with whom you want to spend your whole future with,... focusing on the no sex issue , isn't a bit not seeing the forest for the trees ?
Maybe the problem is that both you and your fiancee' are a bit perfectionist? I mean, I did not quite get what my name has got to do with USA mortgages, anyway , since when OWNING your own place is a prerequisite for getting married ? It's better of course, as it would be better to have lots of money in the bank, but , the sad truth is that , in the current economy, not many people can afford these things. If you want to wait to have ALL your ducks in a row before getting married, then yes, it could take a long long time, both in Europe and in USA.
Ditto for the big wedding : she does not need to give up that, you could have a quick , private, religious only wedding to put her conscience at ease and be able to have sinless sex, AND have a big do with all the guests and the bridesmaids etc. as soon as it will be feasible.
( I am not just talking to refresh my mouth. I have seen it done a few times, so I know it is possible ).
Pardon my stubborness, but my conclusion is still : when there's a will there's a way - and when people are lukewarm about finding the way, often it's the will which is lukewarm too...
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI didn't see the first post responded to my question, anonymous, April 4. It made me seem as if I'm wanting her to have sex against her wishes.
Note: I don't want to her to anything that she doesn't want to do. I told her even if she changed her mind about holding out on me that it would make our bedroom life complicated because now I have a stigma attached to it. That's certainly not something I want.
Anonymous, please note that we've already been having sex for quite some time and I'm not her first trip through the park. That's what is the disheartening part of all of this I think and why her ideas are difficult to accept.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 April 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question----------------------------------Sageoldguy and Wiseoldman:Understood, mates. I'm feeling a bit leery.----------------------------------SoVeryConfused:I'm aware of this type of marriage--my brother did it. However logical this is to me this would not fly to my partner. She wants a church wedding and reception, all of her friends, etc. I too am starting to feel she is pushing me off. ----------------------------------CindyCares:You start your post by stating you didn't read mine which makes it hard for me to take your response seriously.Regarding your advice, I am certainly not getting cold feet (as stated in my original post). I've always been a fan of "mismatch" relationships, that's for sure. Regarding "they have nice houses in Germany, too", yes they do. However I'm starting over from scratch here with new contacts and my income has dropped 80%. It's a good thing I live on the cheap. As you know from your name, getting a mortgage over here is a different game then doing it in the states.Simply put, I respect her right to have a faith different than me. Unlike some atheists, I told her I "I don't care." I'm very uncomplicated that way. The minute her new-found just-before-the-marriage beliefs starts having a negative effect on my life and my sex life is where I have the issue.----------------------------------Anonymous April 7:Point noted. Thanks.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (7 April 2013): I wouldn't worry about her desire to stop having sex before marriage. But here is what would scare the hell out of me: Look at the way theses stories usually end.
She probably won't go back to feeling okay about sex as soon as she has a ring. My guess is that she will continue feeling like sex is sinning from now on, married or not.
...............................
A
female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (7 April 2013):
I admit that , being a long thread, I skimmed through it so I may have missed something - admitted that,... really, what's the problem.
Love is blind and made you chance into someone who's not totally compatible with you, - it happens. Smokers with non smokers, Republican with Democrats, vegetarian with meat eaters , offspring of posh rich families with offspring of working class . Atheists with Christians. Such " mismatches " are not everybody's cup of tea , but all in all - apparently it is YOUR cup of tea. You love the girl, like the girl, want the girl. So marry her already !
If you go today to Town Hall you can be married in, what? two weeks,three ? You don't NEED to have your family there , you can get married now , and getting your sex life re-started , and have your family over and have a big celebration later, whenever they can. Tons of expats do this.
Still too much red tape due to your foreign citizenship or what not ? Not a problem. Go talk with her priest , if she is Catholic, or minister if she is Protestant , and ask about ... I don't know the exact translation in English ... a " conscience wedding " , it's something that
all Christian denominations, as far as I know, envision. A religious only ceremony, not to be transcribed in the Civil Register - you are married in the eyes of God, not for the State, that can wait for later . It is something that it is used seldom, but it exists , like, for instance, for people who is in Army / Police forces ( in some European countries you can't get married before 28 or 30 , and you can get fired, if you belong to certain corps, yet people wants to be married in the eyes of their God ).
Moral, when there's a will there 's a way, and if the problem is the RELIGIOUS marriage, you can get married tomorrow if you want.
- Then : I would not push so much the pedal of your " sacrifices " in your place, not only it is ingenerous and eventually annoying to throw in your partner's face the old " after all I did for you "... but, honestly, in your case, what did you do ?. You did not sacrifice everything for HER- you did it for YOURSELF, because you are getting something good for yourself out of it ( or , at least , something better than being in USA but by yourself and without the girl ). As for the rest ... you LIKE living in Germany , you said it yourself. You are a musician and you can work anywhere. You'll have to speak German ? Big deal : I stayed 17 years without speaking my mother tongue ( and it came handy, eventually, for writing on Dear Cupid,lol ! ) You gave up your house... they 've got nice houses in Germany too . You gave up your car - they have EXCELLENT cars in Germany :)
Yeah, it does sound a bit weak " I want sex - I deserve it because I gave up my car... and now I have to drive a Volkswagen ! ( Well, hopefully a Mercedes , or a BMW ). And I have to eat schnitzels with spaetzle , rather than hamburgers with fries ! ".
Pardon me, but to me it sounds as if you may getting a bit of cold feet, and realizing that perhaps, just perhaps, you may have bitten a bit more than you can chew, both in terms of your religious/moral differences, and in terms of relocating and starting a new life, - and you are trying to pussyfoot back over the sex issue, that if you both want can be VERY temporary.
If you get together with a fervid, observant Christian woman, - then you cannot act surprised and pissed off when she ACTS Christian. Yes, she was having sex with you ( and with the other guys before ) but, from her point of view, she was sinning THEN, she was doing wrong THEN. If at some point , for some reason, she repented and NOW wants to live chastely until she is married, she is acting coherent with her faith and beliefs, - which for you should not be THAT difficult at all neither to understand nor to respect ( said by a non Christian, so it's not like I am drumming up votes for the party ). So,..what gives ?
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (5 April 2013):
 OP what's important to you the WEDDING or the MARRIAGE?
You have asked for a date and she's refusing.
You say you can't do it quickly so your family can be there.
I say do it without your family (the marriage)
and have the wedding (reception) at a later date.
My grandparents did that. they got married at the courthouse a month or two before their actual wedding date... none of us in the family knew this till many many MANY years later... it had to do with my grandfather getting his citizenship or something... they wanted to be married legally before it was finished. We never knew as a family (I think only their parents knew) and they celebrated the wedding day as their anniversary not the marriage date. But LEGALLY they were married already. I know lots of folks who have done that.
IF she WANTED to have sex she would be gung ho to set a date and get married. She's pushing you off... I see dark ominous clouds on the horizon of your sex life with this woman.
...............................
A
male
reader, wiseoldman  +, writes (5 April 2013):
Some women would rather have a husband than be a wife.
You've shown your commitment by letting her set the pace for your initial intimacy, then relocating half a world away and learning her language to be with her. After all of that, she's now withholding sex and announcing she's giving you no say in the metaphysical upbringing of your children.
Marrying her might not be the best of ideas.
...............................
A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (4 April 2013):
 Yes... SHE is (or, had) escalated the "Christian - vs - atheist" thing..... and YOU were not consulted......
NOW, consider what you will - or might- have, going forward...
Myself? I wouldn't even DREAM of taking a chance with a "Bible thumper" as a partner....I've seen too many lives ruined when a religious freak reveals their true self... and it is distantly-removed from secular life... and cares not a whit if the other party (YOU, in this case!) suffers at their hand...
Think long and hard about how much disdain you want to endure at this woman's hand, before YOU will finally get fed up, say, "F**k it," and go your separate way. MAYBE, you can short-circuit that, now... and avoid the heartaches....
Good luck...
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI *should* mention that, before I startled her into talking about this situation with me, she spoke with a lady down the street that acts as her big sister often regarding this. The big sister told her that, as a christian, she understands what shes doing but that it's a really, really bad idea.At least I have someone locally on my side. I don't think the rest of her big sisters will be on my side, however.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHey everyone, thanks for the thoughts. I will try to address the issues as they come in in order:So Very Confused-------------------------You wrote essentially to get married ASAP. I asked her for a wedding day the day we got engaged and have been asking since (one years time). She hasn't planned one yet. I keep sarcastically setting them and she keeps rolling her eyes. I think she wants to wait. Logistically, in a foreign country, it's advantageous for me to get married faster. The visa issues go away, work comes in to me faster, etc., so this has never been my issue. I doubt she will try to "save my soul" as I think she feels the response to that would not be in her favor. I would then, of course, attempt to pull her away from god. I think we've come to an agreement between long, respectful talks to 'agree to disagree'. I have told her that if she did what she's considering that and I was to 'attempt' to deal with it I would want a wedding date immediately. I told her there is no negotiations with that. I'm done with questions marks--I'm not 23, I'm 33.Congrats to you on the speedy marriage! However for me it's harder as I'm in a foreign land, my families at home will need months to save to afford the ridiculously priced flights, etc.-------------------------Intrigued, yes, wedding date soon is a great idea, however, as stated above, it's a bit complicated. I agree that the philosophies will, at the very least, make things interesting in the future. She is special otherwise I wouldn't have given up everything I'm used to at home and came here. And because of these sacrifices I feel like I'm slapped hard in the face. I told her the thought of what she's considering almost feels as bad as cheating on me. I'm exaggerating a little but with the mild language barrier (her english is quite good) it helps sometimes.She's got a certain kind of lovely that draws me to her, almost an old-fashioned kind of appeal. And I really dig that. Is she replaceable? I think everyone is to an extent. I don't want to replace her, though. Is she worth the wait? I don't think anyone is in this situation I don't care how special the person is. I feel hurt, my confidence is torn apart and, despite the fact she urges that it has nothing to do with me and it's purely a religious thing happening with her (she's a terrible liar--I believe her) I still feel like I did something wrong. Call me silly.-------------------------K C 100Yes, it's definitely a stand-off. And your right--it's her body, her mind, her religion and her decisions. And I gave up my life, my job, my car, my house, my language, etc. etc.I think if nothing changed after the marriage I would have grounds for a quick divorce, though I'll check the local laws. Last night she told me how much she wants me while essentially dry-humping me (what are we, 11?). A quick feel I can tell she's aroused.. I don't get it!Regarding your paragraph telling me to explain that if she said "no sex until marriage" from the start I would be ok with it--already beat you to it. I let that out the first day we spoke about it.I am preparing mentally to pack my things and ship things back to the states. It's not want I want to do but I'd rather be caught with my pants on. I'm good like that.Well what did she say when you told her it wasnt acceptable?----------------------Thanks for your responses. I'll keep posted what's going on.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (4 April 2013):
well I sense a couple of problems.
problem 1 is easily solved... get married ASAP... even if you go to the route of a quick legal civil marriage (of course she could say she wants to be married in the eyes of the church in which case... rush it anyway)
the problem is I bet it won't resolve the sexual problems after that...
and then there's the getting closer to god... it may bite you later on... she may try to "save your soul" and your kids will be told "we won't see daddy after we die because he's going to burn in hell" kind of stuff.
I'd tell her fine make a wedding NOW... I pulled off a full wedding in six weeks time... including the white dress, veil, music, and a caterer... it can be done... you have to be flexible.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2013): Dude when it comes to sex: if she don't want it, you don't get it. You cant force her, persuade her or come that "you owe me because ive made sacrifices" routine either, as she doesn't want sex until marriage. If she was to break that vow under pressure from you she will feel angry, hurt, violated and guilty afterwards. And so will you! You cannot force her to change her mind. Yes se has had sex before but that doesn't mean she owes it to you. You said a lot about the sacrifices you have made, the fact your kids will have to go to church when your an atheist and so on and in all honesty you sound like your really deep down regret how much control you have given her. You've made all that sacrifice, missing your nethew growing up and so on and say she has "first crack of the kids" and all of that stuff.I just think you are in a situation where you have given her so much and given up so much for her, put yourself through a lot and so on yet she is the one calling the shots. Less give and take and more a case of you giving and she taking?How do you know she will still want sex with you after marriage? why would a non virgin, who I assume has had sex with you before, suddelny want to act all pure and virginal to her wedding night? WHy haven't you set a date?
...............................
A
female
reader, Intrigued3000  +, writes (4 April 2013):
 Set the wedding date soon. Problem solved...at least the immediate problem. The deeper problem is that your religious philosophies are incompatible. I hope that you can work through this issue with patience and understanding. This girl sounds nice (special). Ask yourself if you think you can get a better woman than her to settle down with.
If you think she is replaceable then dump her and find someone else...but if you know that you will not find another woman like her, then be patient and wait.
You have to answer this question, "Is she worth the wait?"
...............................
A
female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (4 April 2013):
 Well what did she say when you told her it wasnt acceptable?
You are at a bit of a stand off really, and unfortunately one of you is going to have to back down or you both call it a day. Now I'm not condoning what she is doing (personally I think it is absurd to have sex with someone and then all of a sudden change your mind and take sex away from the relationship and expect your partner to be ok with it), but it is her body, these are her values so there isnt much you can do.
The fact that she is doing this before marriage indicates that there will be problems with sex and intimacy after marriage - I've seen many posts on this site where the female claims she wants to wait until they are married, despite having had sex with their partner before, because it will make it more special or they want to get closer to God etc yet when they get married nothing changes and they still wont have sex.
There is a very real chance that either your girlfriend is just not a sexual person and doesnt particularly enjoy it, hence she wants to take a break from sex to see if she misses it now (under the guise of no sex before marriage etc). Or she has issues with sex from the past and has not resolved these issues, again making her not want sex. Equally it could be health related, a sudden loss in libido isnt normal and should be looked into by a doctor.
You cant force her to give up her values, but equally she cant expect you to accept no sex for the forseeable future. And then add into the mix that she may have issues with sex after marriage and there is a chance this may never improve - you are in a really difficult situation.
You need to sit down and talk to her and explain that if she had said no sex before marriage right from the start, then that would be something you could deal with because she had been upfront about it. However because she had suddenly taken it away when you had been having sex in the past then you feel she has misled you with the relationship and it is something that you cannot accept.
I dont think she will back down though and nor should she have to if it is really because she is getting closer to God, she is obviously a religious person and if this is what she believes, then you cant change that. Be prepared to walk away I'm afraid.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 April 2013): " She wants to stop having sex until the wedding day. I told her after all my sacrifices it wasn't acceptable...I've basically given her an ultimatum--don't give up the sex or I'm packing my bags."You DONT ever give a woman an altimatum for sex !! If she does not want sex until the wedding night you either accept that or move on. How dare you think that because of your sacrifices that entitles you to have sex even if its against your wishes!!!So, using your logic, if im "on a promise" with a woman and I drive 200 miles, buy her flowers and expensive drinks and pay for a hotel room and she then says "sorry I cant do this" do you think if I said "Look love ive driven all this way and paid all this money so spread your legs" that it would be acceptable?! nobody forced you into making sacrifces OP so stop being bitter and ranting about them and do this girl a favour and move on!
...............................
|
