A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I've noticed that when married people talk about marriage, they rarely sound happy. It's usually described as hard work, a battle, or a series of ups and downs. It's a land of expanding waistlines, pointless arguments, sweatpants, crying babies, and boring or nonexistent sex life.Every older couple I know sleeps not just in separate beds but also separate bedrooms. They've turned into platonic housemates. Even one younger couple I know is the same way. This may not seem like the worst thing in the world but I'm pretty sure very few young couples would get married if they knew for a fact they would end up this way.Everyone knows half of all marriages end in divorce. Of the half that stay together, how many are truly happy? Whatever that number is, it leaves only a small chance of being happily married long-term. And yet a whopping 90% of the human race still gets married, making singles always the odd ones out.From a guy's perspective, marriage also seems extremely risky. The vast majority of breakups and divorces are initiated by women, who then inherit the kids and property. If it were the other way around, women would be questioning the whole system and asking why any woman should ever put herself in that position.Is marriage really as bad as I've described or is it just the couples that I happen to know in real life? I'm practically middle-aged now, still single. But I can't see marriage as the road to happiness like everyone else does. Looks more like the road to ruin.
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female
reader, Honeypie  +, writes (30 January 2015):
 Oh and have a listen to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7gSAYAf8s
Poor fella lost his wife, but kept her voice recordings on his phone and when Virgin (the company) deleted them after 10 years he was devastated. Don't you think he's RATHER have HER around?
A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (30 January 2015):
OP, do you know HOW many women stayed in violent and abusive relationships, because DIVORCE was a "social disgrace"? The woman would get NOTHING, not her children, nor even access to her children.
I think you have the notion that marriage can ONLY be bad. If that was so, how come so many people attempt it every day?
No one is FORCING you to want to marry, not even society. My brother have been with is (now wife) for 20 years before they married. ONLY reason they DID get married was for the kids. MY brother wanted them (and his wife) protected financially IN CASE of anything happening to him. MY SIL wanted the kids and her husband (my brother) protected in case anything happened to her. He makes 6 figures a year, she has her own company with 5 employees making roughly what he makes. SHE supported THEM while he build HIS career, HE supported THEM while she build her company. If they divorce, it's not about WHO gets what.
I've been married 17 years (19 together) and if we DON'T make it 40-50 years, so what? I think without REGRET that we have done pretty well doing 17 and STILL wanting to BE together. It isn't a competition on who can last the longest. IT IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT. Like anything else.
And I have to agree with Chigirl - what the HAY kind of people are you surrounded by?
The house is the wife's dominion? WTF? No. I SHARE the house with my husband (and all his god-darned cats) and our kids. THE KIDS have an area of the basement set up as a movie room/hangout room for when they have friends over because this house is tiny. The REST of the basement is storing his Army crap.
LIFE is a series of mistakes. It's what you DO with those mistakes that makes your life good or sucky.
You say that divorce isn't an option, well if that is the case I don't blame you. DON'T get married. NO ONE should HAVE to stay in a marriage/relationship if it makes them miserable.
Out of 10 couples that I consider friends, 3 have divorced, 2 after 25 years (one is remarried and has been for 11 years), and one after 14. The rest are pretty much going strong.
I would NEVER tell someone don't get married. Or don't ever have kids. I would tell them NOT to HURRY doing EITHER of those two. TO travel first, get an education first, and to REALLY get to know your partner FIRST.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (30 January 2015):
 You have some really sad friends around you! If they all live such miserable lives, I'd look more into what sort of society/circle of friends you keep, as I find it hard to imagine they are all beat down and miserable just because of marriage.
Not saying it can't be so, I just find it a bit puzzling that all these friends and associates of yours blame marriage for all their problems. When it very well could be that they should have A. worn protection to NOT have unplanned babied and B. shouldn't have proposed if they didn't like being with the woman...
Sounds like a bunch of premature/shot-gun weddings... Am I right? How old are these friends of yours, how old were they when they got married? Studies show that those who marry later in life, have longer and happier marriages, because they don't jump into things too fast. Or have unprotected sex, like your friend.
I know some people who remind me of the ones you talk about.. they are generally uneducated, have mediocre jobs, and have no ambition in life. They get married young and pop out kids like there was nothing else to do in life, and they started doing this from around the age of 18-25. Then there's a gap, between those people, and the ones who got themselves an education, went abroad, got a good job, waited with marriage, and then went ahead to marry and THEN have kids. These people seem very happy about their choice.... The ones you mention sound very much like the ones I mentioned first, the uneducated ones with no ambition who's lives appear to be mundane with "criticizing" women (who in my experience only act the way they do because of lazy good-for-nothing husbands).
To conclude this post of mine: could it be that the problem isn't marriage, but the people who are in the marriage?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (30 January 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThe history of marriage would be an interesting study. But it's a different world now and the married men of today look so beaten down and demoralized. My friend is a good guy who has taken up the mantle of responsible father after an unplanned pregnancy. But nothing he does is ever good enough for his wife who is super critical, demeaning and always comparing her life to what other people have.
I never thought marriage was women's idea. After all, in almost every case, it was the man who proposed. The man always proposes, the woman always divorces. There is also the tacit understanding that a man, once married, will have to give up, at least to a large extent, things like late nights with his guy friends, watching porn, playing videogames, etc. Some of this is necessary, especially when becoming a parent. But there just isn't the same expectation on women to give up similar indulgences like shopping, entertaining, trips to the spa, erotica. In fact many of those activities will actually increase upon marriage. Plus, wives get dominion over almost the entire house. If a man is allowed any space of his own, it will be either in the freezing cold garage or the dank basement (aka "the cave"). This might explain the perception of guys being "roped into" marriage and women getting more of what they want from it.
These are just my impressions as an outsider, seeing how marriage is depicted in the media or by friends. I've NEVER heard anyone say "marriage is awesome" until now. But more than once, married people have warned me, "Don't ever get married!" They're probably saying this out of stress or the frustration of the moment, but it still reveals a tinge of regret.
Yeah, my parents have been together several decades. But the romance fizzled long ago. They are simply platonic housemates now with completely different interests. People can really change in 40+ years. Not just their looks but their attitudes, values and sometimes entire personality. So the person you marry won't be the same person you end up being married to. Or maybe they will but it's you who have changed. And in my family, divorce is not an option. So if you made the biggest mistake of your life, there's no going back. To me, that's very good reason to be cautious.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (29 January 2015):
 A lot of marriage detractors say that marriage was constructed for a woman's benefit, and the guy is roped in, where he stands to lose everything if she gouges him in a divorce.
In reality, marriage was a man's thinking, as it granted him the ability to "tag" his wife with his last name, to take her virginity (back when that was a big issue), to raise his children and manage his house. In the not-so-distant past, there were things like "bride price" and "dowry" paid either to her or to his estate that went with her in the case of divorce, in order to ensure she was taken care of and wasn't merely discarded. This was when property ownership was by law almost entirely ceded to men, who were forwarding the family name. A family name was a thing of great value and a sense of pride. I still think they are, but not quite like the caste systems and noble hierarchy of old.
Back then, marriage was more than love, it joined houses, forged treaties, settled family or clan disputes, even settled property disputes. Women were chattel or just above chattel. Any guy who can spout that women made up the idea of marriage deserves a serious history lesson.
Nowadays, marriage still is about love, security, and longevity. Society glorifies bachelorhood, and living together as well as sexual activity both inside and outside of a relationship.
Marriage is not a bad thing. You say that your parents stayed together a long time? Where did you get your cynical view on it?? And - you mentioned I was a "third" of the way there? Yes, very true. But you mentioned happiness being benchmarked by "better finances, longer life, increased happiness".
If a marriage is to be successful, the notion "I will make you happy" must be rejected, because no person should look for the source of being happy to be anywhere else than from inside themselves. You've seen people, rich, powerful, trophy wives, glamorous dream careers, the envy of everyone around them...and they commit suicide because they were unhappy. You're going to be happy if you decide to be. You're going to be unhappy regardless of any positive sources. That's why a lot of people, when having affairs, decide that they "deserve a little happiness". And it happens, for a time, until the sheen wears off and the relationship has become the day-to-day that most relationships are. Then they can decide whether to work it out with their new partners or go find an easy way out again.
This is NOT to say that if abuse or infidelity isn't happening in a marriage, that you should just be happy through it. However, how many instances of marital unhappiness were caused by depression, and one spouse jettisons the other one because they want to blame an external source? Guy reaches his 40's, is unhappy with his place in life, sees his wife maybe with a few extra pounds (somehow his paunch and receding hairline are forgotten), dependable, loyal, 3 kids, home pressures and responsibilities, and instead of talking over his restlessness with her and nurturing the relationship, begins to snap and jab at her, or pull away and become distant until a hot little number maybe 10-15 years younger than him makes him feel young, and he medicates with private fantasies, then he lavishes his attention on her, impresses her, buys her stuff, courts her, listens to her. He compares her with his wife, and his wife loses because he's not remembering that his life was forged together with hers and his blood, sweat, and tears.
A good marriage never forgets that a bond of real trust can only be forged over time. People marry for the wrong reasons, either for looks or perceived financial stability, and they choose their cars with more care than a life partner. Microwaves are made for greasy box food, not marriages.
I don't know what the future will hold, but I'm excited to see what the next "two-thirds" of my life will become. If my husband got unhappy and wanted out, I could never trap him. I love him enough to want him to be happy. He was the one who fed me ice chips when I was in the hospital after my kidney transplant. I was the one with him when traumatic things happened in his life. I don't feel threatened by the "hot little number", because if he for some reason imploded and played the cad, my life will continue.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2015): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for taking the time to answer this and for all your perspectives.
YouWish, sounds like you have a great marriage, light years ahead of some I know who argue bitterly and openly in front of others. But if you expect to last around 45 years like your parents and mine, consider that you're still only a third of the way there, really just beginning. And if somehow you broke up after 40 years - which does happen, look at Al Gore - the marriage would be seen as a failure. That makes it seem like an all-or-nothing gamble. Flip the coin and if it comes up heads, your life is forever improved - better finances, longer life, increased happiness. But if it comes up tails, it's a disaster you may never recover from. On psychological stress scales, divorce is more traumatic than any other life event besides death of a spouse and usually results in a permanent drop in happiness. It's worse than imprisonment or the death of a close relative.
From these answers, I'll concede there are lots of practical, down-to-earth reasons for getting married. Women are all about gaining security through expanding their social network, and nothing expands one's network like getting married and having a whole other family to draw on for support. It's also still the best environment for raising children. But maybe for dreamers with a more imaginative orientation to life, marriage can seem mundane, boring and restrictive. Like driving the same wide highway everyone else is on for fear of getting lost on the more interesting backroads. Sometimes it feels amazing to have your freedom and your future wide open before you. My male friends are going through mid-life crises right now (by their own admission), and I feel spared from much of that since my days don't yet consist of backyard barbecues with the in-laws, going to parent-teacher interviews, or sleeping on the couch after an argument.
Ultimately, I guess a good marriage is better than being alone. But a bad marriage is worse.
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A
female
reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (26 January 2015):
 It will be 40 years this April. Three kids, 11 grandkids...I don't regret a thing, well maybe the boat....
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (26 January 2015):
 When I met my now husband his words were "marriage is stupid I'm never getting married" OK fine with me I've been married and I don't need to get married... (in fact unless you are having children I can see never getting married at all)
NOTE the man is my HUSBAND.
what changed? He fell in love and didn't want to lose me.
go figure. love makes us take risks.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 January 2015): We hope for the best:)Marriage is a lot of work, but so is everything else: friendshipis a work, parents children relationship is work , what is not?I am married more than 20 years, and we got married because we were madly in love. Then our daughter came. My husband completely dissapeared from the house. He found every excuse not be around me and her: work, extra work, friend need help with something...etc. This is when I learned to handle my life without him by myself. He turned out to be eventually a very good dad when he got older, it the beginning was tough.,When I look at our life together he is in a better position than me. And i will explain why. The household chores are totally on me. He doesn't know what it's to clean our house,or shop for grosseries, or cook, or do laundry, iron his shirts or pay bills.. When we travel he doesn't even gets involved at all: i plan all, airtickets, hotels, where to go and what to see and our finances around it. He comes home from work to a clean house, homemade dinner, clean clothes and someone to talk to and share how his day went. Mind you I work also 4 days a week. About sex: yes, sex is not happening as often as it did, but it's a mutual thing. His drive is not as it was before, it's not like I say no all the time. We are comfortable where we are now with our sex life and thisis all that counts, right? We do by the way sleep in separate bedrooms because he snores, and I need my sleep. He also like firm mattress and i loke soft.,Do we argue? Of course, who doesn't. Do we argue often ? No, because we are used to each other long ago. Not all marriages are terrible,believ me. It's not good to be alone for anyone.,that's why people are looking for a mate hoping for the best.
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A
female
reader, Ciar +, writes (25 January 2015):
 'If it were the other way around, women would be questioning the whole system and asking why any woman should ever put herself in that position.' Women already are, which is why they initiate most of the divorces.
To be honest, I don't know any TRULY happy, married women. It's been my observation that women are happiest when they're on their own.
Men might be unhappy after the marriage ends, but they seem to fare better during it. At least that's what I've heard them say (while they were married).
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (25 January 2015):
Auntie YouWish and I have a lot of the same attitudes towards marriage and relationships in general, so all I can really do is echo her answer.
Marriage IS not for everyone. It DOES take work, effort and participation, but really WHAT in life doesn't?
I didn't met my husband til late 20's. We had a LOT of obstacles to overcome in order to BE together and I think during the 18 months of LDR we learned how well we function as a team. How well we make plans and execute them. We still work exceeding well together, knowing now each other strengths and weaknesses we are even better, and THAT is after 17 years of marriage.
Marriage is not full of shiny rainbows and glittery unicorn fart, but seriously WHO needs that? It has it moments, it's ups and down. LIKE so many other things, the MORE you put in the MORE you get back.
We don't sleep in separate beds, but I DO enjoy when he stay up late and falls asleep on the couch, that way I can take up the whole bed (and I do). But it doesn't happen often.
And like YouWish, we are pretty much a united front. If we don't agree on things we don't YELL and SCREAM it out in front of others (or the kids, we have 3 kids btw) We have learned to agree to disagree and pick our "battles". We rarely fight, I think I can count the amount of times we actually had a fight in 19 years is more then 4 and less the 7.
As for statistics, I don't care. If you don't TRY you will never succeed.
This week-end he is off to see his Dad, so it's just me and the kids. And it's nice. I still look forward to him coming home too.
A LOT of people think marriage is "bad" or a "trap" for men. And honestly, if THAT is your attitude, I think NOT getting married is a good idea.
IT IS what you make it.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (25 January 2015): Maybe you should ask people who are happily married? Not all married people sleep in separate rooms/ beds! It's actually men who benefit from marriage a lot more.
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A
female
reader, Midnight Shadow  +, writes (24 January 2015):
 Put simply: you don't have to get married.
For people who are truly compatible long term and in love, these things may or may not exist and may or may not be an issue. It's not so much marriage as it is a long term relationship; marriage is basically the legal side but, married or not, most long term couples do face some of those issues you've mentioned.
Maybe you're just not cut out for a long term, committed relationship - that's okay too.
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A
female
reader, maverick494 +, writes (24 January 2015):
Marriage, like relationships, like friendships, like well, EVERYTHING worth something in life, take work. And that effort needs to come from both sides. Marriage can be great. But it's what you make of it.
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A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (24 January 2015):
Sorry -- this is going to be long, and I thought my answer would be shorter than this. But thoughts keep popping up in my mind.
I can only tell you my story. I got married when I was 24 after a 5 year relationship/4 year engagement. The relationship was so long because we started dating when we were 19 and knew we needed to accomplish school goals first, yet we knew within the first year that we'd found who we wanted to marry.
We've been married for 16 years, have a son, and we are happy! We've had ups and downs, some health scare stuff, job successes and job setbacks, and we're still together and NOT miserable!
I think part of the reason for that is because we also came from parents who stayed together. My husband's parents are about to celebrate 44 years of marriage. My parents were also married 44 years until 2013 when my father died. We both saw our parents resolving issues and sticking together through thick and thin.
The concept of sleeping together in the same bed is a relatively modern one. Look at the old sitcoms -- the beds were separate, and oftentimes the rooms were too. In the case of couples where one snores, sleeping separately saves the marriage. My grandparents were married and lived apart. They weren't separated...they were both in a second marriage and did what worked for them.
I've read the opinions of the "Men, don't EVER MARRY!" apologists, and the reasonings I hear are always immature ones, like thinking their partner won't "let themselves go" and gain weight, the property issue, the child custody thing, the never having variety thing, all of it.
Marriage affords a lot of financial protection as well. Let's say you're married, you and your wife work, and your wife ends up dying. You are a beneficiary of survivor benefits, insurance benefits, rights of property, your children have stability, and financial decisions in terms of assets and commodities are also protected from probate.
The whole "She won't let herself go" argument has a double edge. All the things you would enjoy by not committing, she has available. You'd wake up, she'd kick you to the curb, the courts are a lot more sympathetic to sole custody if you were never married and had kids, and it would get a lot uglier.
In a marriage, property is accumulated as a joint effort, meaning that the synergy between man and wife, from taking care of the kids, to managing the house, to respective careers, add more to the value and holdings themselves. Even when a wife is a stay at home wife, the alternative would be lots of child support paid out, day care costs, health, dual homes paid for, and you'd accumulate far less by merely co-habiting.
But a lot hinges on your choice of partner. Whether you marry or not, that can make or break a life. Ask anyone who marries an out-of-control alcoholic, drug user, compulsive shopper or gambler, and life can get pretty miserable. Add to that the over-sexualized player lifestyle that's glamorized, and much of the misery is self-inflicted by people who think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
My question for you is - are you happy as a single guy? If so, then it works for you! Marriage isn't only for kids either. You have a partner in life who is the only one of the earth who loves you for the complete you, is there for you when you're at your best and at your worst, you've been through things together and have a relationship that only time can forge. You both use your strengths, one may be stronger socially and aesthetically and one can be stronger financially or in the area of negotiation. And, you're not alone. That feeling of going through life together is something that can't be duplicated by domesticity that passes for true trust and commitment.
I look ahead a lot. My son will leave home in time and start his new life, and I am eager to know the next chapter in my marriage. I'm hoping there will be a lot of travel, adventure, and excitement.
We have rules in our marriage that make things work. We don't put each other down in front of other people. We don't call each other names. We don't drag our family and friends into our arguments or disagreements. We don't drag fights out or let the sun go down on our anger. Any large decisions that we disagree on we sleep on to let each other consider the other's perspective. I never drag him out to go drapes shopping or make him do stuff he hates as a "love test". As far as housework, we just know what each other does and just do it. There are some petty battles we don't fight, such as I buy myself my own toothpaste because I can't stand the nasty way he squeezes his and lets the lid clog with hardened toothpaste crap. There are two guys here, so I can put down the toilet bowl thing just as simply as they can. He in turn puts up with my brand-loyalty even if other things are on sale and he humors me when I do a girl's trip out for a few days out of state. We both have hobbies separately and together.
Marriage is awesome, in my opinion. The work is worth it. The "spark" and initial butterflies and infatuation pales in comparison to the real love and real friendship and real sexuality. I trust him and he trusts me. I like knowing that if something happens to me, he'll automatically inherit all of the community property.
Last night, our family went to a really good Italian restaurant..had drinks and delicious food. When we got home, my husband and son played hockey together while I played some Skyrim and then made them some homemade hot chocolate when they came back in all covered in ice and snow. Simple, boring, and absolutely priceless.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (24 January 2015):
"And yet a whopping 90% of the human race still gets married, making singles always the odd ones out."
What can I say, we're full of hope!
Personally, I know the statistics, and I've heard of the pitfalls. But what are your options? In the world I live in, and have experienced, having a life long partner, even if it's just friendship at the end, is far better than being alone. In marriage, although you might fight you also have someone to share the burden with.
Married people live longer, according to statistics, and feel happier. They are also financially better off, on a general basis. Because if one falls ill, the other will still support the family. If you're single, and fall ill, then you got to lean on the state for support. And the state gives you far less than a spouse would.
From a guys point of view, about the children and house etc in the event of a divorce... Yes, I see that point. But if you're not married, can you imagine it being any better in terms of children and house? If you're not married, but she lives in YOUR house with the children, and SHE gets custody, then would you feel okay with the children living in a small apartment or something less than what they used to have?
Besides, who's house are you talking about anyway? If you're married then it's both's house, not his.
That problem really comes down to gender equality though. If the woman is the breadwinner, then she has to pay you the alimony in the case of a divorce. So in order to improve the situation for men in that specific area, I have to suggest supporting women and their careers, and STOP wanting stay at home house wives, because that's a sure way for her to get custody and the house in a divorce. But if you're a stay at home dad, then I would say, close to guaranteed, that YOU would get the kids and the house.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 January 2015): I think it's just the people you know.
Unfortunately it sounds like you have most of the bad statistics living close by.
It's not just marriage, a relationship is hard work. You don't have to be married to figure that out.
If you can't give yourself completely to just one person for the rest of your life, then marriage/relationships, aren't for you.
Happiness is achieved through friendship, compromising, laughing often, loving one another, and concentrating on your own life whilst encouraging your other half when they need it.
It's easy to make something sound sh!t when all you point out is the bad. Just like it's easy to make something sound amazing if you only point out the good.
Marriage is a mixture of everything.
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