A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:Hi, I need some advice, a different insight, well i'm sure you will understand... Well my question is basically who should I choose? You will understand why in a minute... I'm sorry if this long but I have been pondering this decision for some time and going back and forward.I met a guy at work in 2005 and we striked up a relationship,(we'll call him Rich) in march 06 I found out I was carrying his baby, I knew he didn't want a baby, he had an 8 year old from a previous relationship but it was an accident as I was taking the pill and was ill. Anyhow after booking an abortion (much against my better judgement) he told me not to go and keep the baby, four weeks later after spending easter together with his family he left me telling me he didn't love me. From the very first appointment with the doctor I went alone, feeling very scared and lonely but somehow it seemed the right thing to do. Throughout my pregnancy I was very ill and was in and out of hospital , in all the 9 months he came to the hospital once because I begged him to take me home on discharge. However i could not stay away and begged, pleaded and so badly wanted us to be together, I will say now I know I shouldn't have done this, hindsight is a fine thing and I guess in a way it might have been cos i was frightened. Anyhow to cut a long story short we used to (without being crude) sleep together for him to tell me the next day it was a mistake and he didn't love me. He only ever came to one scan again cos i begged and he showed barely an interest. During my pregnancy he did all of the following - talked to his ex in detail about what was happening which gave her upper hand and many a chance to join in putting me down etc... - hit me, pushed me, verbally abusive, threatened and used me - he also met up with an ex who told him he also had a child by her(turned out she was lying) and pretty much had an affair, I later after my child was born found in messenger various messages of him slagging me off, slagging his child/unborn child off, arranging to sleep with her, meet her, telling her in depth detail about me. he regullarly used to turn his phone off so i was unable to contact him even in emergency, in sept 06 his 8 year old came to live with him from his mother's, he told me after he had moved in even though days before he was talking about us getting back together, worth mentioning that from March - august i was homeless in pregnancy and staying short term at family who didn't have room for me, he never bought anything for baby or helped me financially, the list could go on anyway next chapter....He didn't come to the hospital the night my son was born even though he had slept with me and made promises the night before, he apparently had to look after his 9 year old even though there were people who could look after him. The next eve (my son was born in morning) he turned up at hospital with not so much as a card or a nappy for his son (oh but with a small bag of 2nd hand clothes his sister has given him) he showed no care for me atall, all i wanted was a cuddle and even that was an effort for him he showed a vague interest in his son then left with no indication of his interest, thoughts, when we would see him again or if... However he did come to the hospital another 2 times, 1 of which I begged him to bring nappies for baby as we'd run out and I had noone to help (my dad was ill and wasn't allowed at hosp, mum is disabled and rest of family too far away) Any way before leaving hosp he told me he wanted to try again and we would see each other every now and then and he would be about. Turned out we ended up spending xmas together with his family, doing everything his way! Boxing day he had arranged to drop his son off at his ex's and spend the day there when we made our arrangements he was unwilling to change this until I gave him ultimatum, however he still had to drop his son off and was gone most of day in fairness it was a 2-3 hour drive away.Anyway inbetween xmas and new year another fight broke out and he hit me and tried to strangle me while I was holding my son, we left only to stupidly return weeks later to get him to register the birth.Next chapter, sorry nearly finished! day we registered birth he left me and baby in rain and dark at registry office while he collected his son from sister's, I felt so hurt, used, betrayed the list of distruction and upset could go on forever... On the long walk back home I got a call from my parents who by this point were none too amused by the situation! they told me an old friend, well boyfriend from when i was 14 had called and left his number and wanted me to call him (we'll call him Aron) I hadn't spoken to him in 8 years I was so excited i called him before i got home knowing Rich would go mad. Any way over the coming weeks we talked lots and finally met up by this point I had finally left Rich but only by days. Pretty quickly we got close and he ended up moving in with me and I fell pregnant in feb 07, however after lots of trouble from rich (rich had decided he wanted me and my son back)he left after a row to cool down, my son ended up very ill in hospital, Rich was there and was a rock, Aron would have been there but i wouldn't let him knowing how much trouble it would cause. Weeks later I lost the baby and aron and me fell apart he wanted me back but I could't cope with Rich's behaviour and went back to Rich. he had changed so much he was there for us, helping us, telling us he loved us, wanting us to live with him. We went back and forth for months untill I had an affair with Aron and got pregnant again, Rich in sorts convinced me to have an abortion which I will regret forever, I don't think I can forgive Rich even though he has changed (in sorts) i don't think i could trust or be in - love with him again but I know help is out there and relationships take work. But I just don't know what to do Aron still wants us to be together and I do love him and miss him so dearly. Don't get me wrong I love rich but its not the stuff 40 years of marriage is made of! What would you do in my position? Am I going mad for thinking I could ever really be with Rich? or am i stupid for moving on now?Thank you for reading this, any comments, advice welcome x
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abortion, affair, at work, disabled, discharge, his ex, moved in, the pill, want a baby Reply to this Question
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (1 March 2008): Hi thereYou have been having a very very bad time for quite a while now, and this needs to stop. You poor thing. I understand. I particularly understand how awful it was when you were pregnant with Rich's child, and how him being nicer and wanting you now is a great pull, even though Aron is obviously the best person for you.You know, this isn't easy, but you have to just let Rich go. He isn't worth it. He isn't worth you. Aron is. You love him in the kind of way that will last. You need to let Aron help you make Rich a thing of the past. You are SO lucky that you have Aron. Imagine what it would be like if there was only Rich in your life. But it doesn't have to be like that - it's so simple. Just go to Aron. Let him look after you. Have babies with him, and be happy. Really. Do it.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 February 2008): Rich only wants you when you are with someone else by the sound of it. He has treated you really badly. What are you doing with him I wonder. Aaron sounds a better bet. But if you are so mixed up maybe you would be better off alone. Is that what you are so frightened of, that you will accept such appalling behaviour, violence etc.? There are worse things in life than being alone. Think also next time before you get pregnant, because you are affecting the life of that poor baby.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 February 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi all, I just thought I would respond to your comments and questions so here goes...
First in response to Jenna's concerns for my son, my son has always been my first priority I have always maintained my own home, to limit any confusion, upset in care, routine and continuity. I do have alot of experience in childcare from my career and I have watched him very closely, his a very confident, sociable and happy little chap thats not to say he has not been affected as I would think any child going through a family breakup/problems would certainly be affected in some way, I am a strong believer in what ever happens to you happens for a reason, obviously my son is too young to understand this at present but I would hope when he is older he wouldnt have any detrimental effects and I would do anything to stop any danger to him.
Part of my reason for concern over the relationship with Rich, as some of you say it is unlikely that someone would change that much or forever and although there have been no further instances of violence, although he can be verbally abusive in an arguement at times never in front of our son, my concern is that if he did ever lash out again, what would be the impact on my son? would he ever be hurt even if accidently? as you say Red boys that see violence could come to harm themselves by protecting or continuing the circle of distruction later in life, I had this confirmed to me by a police officer last year.
My son does not see men coming and going, he has a good relationship with his father now, they see each other regullarly, he adores his dad! Dada is most certainly the most used word! However I know from previous experience that if i move on this relationship would be affected and Rich would not see him and I simply don't feel I could do this to my son, equally he adores Aron but he knows he is not Dada, other than the few months last year he lived with us, he has only seen him a handfull of times and that has always been out somewhere such as the park etc... and not that he has stayed, equally Aron adores him too but as we don't really see one another he has obviously not seen much of him. I also think it is important for boys to have positive role models but as many of you say at present it is me that needs to seek help in the form of counselling and for me to concentrate on just the two of us for the time being would enable me to be a more positive role model for my son.
Rich has said he would seek help if I would go back to him, but my concern as you say Red, is that am I doing this to stay with the father of my child? does he really want a relationship or as you say Oldersister is it because he doesn't want to lose us to someone else? My concern is that after everything he has done, it doesn't really spell out love could I really ever trust him again? as you say Jabey could you ever trust someone that has been so awefull...or would I always be wondering whether it was a case of 'territory'? Also if I went back to him he would expect me to give up my home, which is my son and I's security and I simply could not do that.
In response to Jenna I don't use Aron to get to Rich, to be honest on the few occasions I have seen Aron lately I have lied to Rich about my whereabouts as it would almost certainly create a large row. As we don't live together, arn't engaged/married have no commitment to one another i am free to see/meet my friends etc...(I do not mean this to sound careless or bolshy) and he wouldn't know what I was doing from one day to the next, however obvioulsy lying about what I am up to is not the best course of action but if I tell him the truth he uses our son as a weapon, would be hurt/upset/angry and there would be consequences in the form of a row.
Finally in response to anon... I know men are not much use at the ins and outs of these issues, however he knew the consequences given i had been ill and I still think it takes 2 to tango... especially in a stable relationship which it was up til this stage sure we had arguements/differences but then so do every couple. My attitude at the time was that I was very much against abortion I was very scared of taking this route and felt I could not cope doing that. It wasn't that he wouldn't let me abort at this stage, had I of said yes he would of been happy for me to do so, it was more he obviously could not force me and on the morning of the appointment he said we could try and make it work, to be honest I was relieved I had not slept or eaten for days at the thought of it.
There was no doubt of the parentage of the pregnancy, i knew it was Arons, however due to the fact that I had gone back to Rich and had an affair with Aron I did not see this as a
good basis to bring a child into the world, as much as I did not want to go ahead with an abortion i felt it was my only option...I felt trapped and was unable to really make a decision (that sounds stupid I know) my head was all over the place and I was unable to work through the decision with any real sense of it all.
I think as many of you say it would do me good to be alone and yes the prospect of that does scare me a little, every time I have tried to be alone, there have been major upsets such as my son being ill and even though I have gone through alot on my own and know i'm capable i find this very daunting and it makes me feel very isolated and lonely which is what I don't cope well with. I have gone back to Aron twice and when i say i have gone back and forth I mean that i have gone back to Rich then left and been on my own then gone back to Rich and so the circle repeats. You are right in saying I do not want to hurt Aron and I have tried as much as possible to keep my distance and not drag him in to the mess which more than anything would confuse matters for everybody and not be good for my son.
Finally when i'm with Rich he can be fantastic, he would do alot of the care for our son, cook, do housework (although he has a very tinted view of what it involves!)He would let me have time to do those things as a mother we rarely get time for like have a bath, read a book etc... we can have fun, go out (babysitter permitting of course)have perfectly adult conversations and generally get on really well.
It's rare that he would do anything that would directly upset me/ be cause for me to leave although it does occasionally happen (ie things like messenger to the woman he possibly had an affair with but that hasnt happened since to my knowledge)its more that this anger takes over me, I feel so angry that he could put us through what he has, angry that I feel the way i do, upset that he could ever hurt me and my unborn son (back then) so much and then I blow my top or go into a little dream world of 'what on earth am i doing?!' and then I just want to go and need to be on my own, I miss Aron more at these times and feel very trapped and just as isolated and lonely as i do when i'm on my own. This effect can take anything from a couple of hours to a couple of days to engulf me but once it does i feel a mixture of relief and dissapointment, anxiety, stress and pure hurt, it makes me very confused and then i feel unable to think straight like I did when making such an important decision but equally like a weight has been lifted and i'm not trapped. Usually at the same time as this Rich would be verbally abusive and say things that make me think his behaviour is an act and not that he has really changed.
As you all say I need to get myself some help, maybe it would be possible to be with someone one day even work the relationship out with Rich or be happy with Aron but right now i need to sort myself out.
Thank you, i'm sorry this is so long, much of it has helped me listen to what is going on in my head!
x
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 February 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi all, I just thought I would respond to your comments and questions so here goes...
First in response to Jenna's concerns for my son, my son has always been my first priority I have always maintained my own home, to limit any confusion, upset in care, routine and continuity. I do have alot of experience in childcare from my career and I have watched him very closely, his a very confident, sociable and happy little chap thats not to say he has not been affected as I would think any child going through a family breakup/problems would certainly be affected in some way, I am a strong believer in what ever happens to you happens for a reason, obviously my son is too young to understand this at present but I would hope when he is older he wouldnt have any detrimental effects and I would do anything to stop any danger to him.
Part of my reason for concern over the relationship with Rich, as some of you say it is unlikely that someone would change that much or forever and although there have been no further instances of violence, although he can be verbally abusive in an arguement at times never in front of our son, my concern is that if he did ever lash out again, what would be the impact on my son? would he ever be hurt even if accidently? as you say Red boys that see violence could come to harm themselves by protecting or continuing the circle of distruction later in life, I had this confirmed to me by a police officer last year.
My son does not see men coming and going, he has a good relationship with his father now, they see each other regullarly, he adores his dad! Dada is most certainly the most used word! However I know from previous experience that if i move on this relationship would be affected and Rich would not see him and I simply don't feel I could do this to my son, equally he adores Aron but he knows he is not Dada, other than the few months last year he lived with us, he has only seen him a handfull of times and that has always been out somewhere such as the park etc... and not that he has stayed, equally Aron adores him too but as we don't really see one another he has obviously not seen much of him. I also think it is important for boys to have positive role models but as many of you say at present it is me that needs to seek help in the form of counselling and for me to concentrate on just the two of us for the time being would enable me to be a more positive role model for my son.
Rich has said he would seek help if I would go back to him, but my concern as you say Red, is that am I doing this to stay with the father of my child? does he really want a relationship or as you say Oldersister is it because he doesn't want to lose us to someone else? My concern is that after everything he has done, it doesn't really spell out love could I really ever trust him again? as you say Jabey could you ever trust someone that has been so awefull...or would I always be wondering whether it was a case of 'territory'? Also if I went back to him he would expect me to give up my home, which is my son and I's security and I simply could not do that.
In response to Jenna I don't use Aron to get to Rich, to be honest on the few occasions I have seen Aron lately I have lied to Rich about my whereabouts as it would almost certainly create a large row. As we don't live together, arn't engaged/married have no commitment to one another i am free to see/meet my friends etc...(I do not mean this to sound careless or bolshy) and he wouldn't know what I was doing from one day to the next, however obvioulsy lying about what I am up to is not the best course of action but if I tell him the truth he uses our son as a weapon, would be hurt/upset/angry and there would be consequences in the form of a row.
Finally in response to anon... I know men are not much use at the ins and outs of these issues, however he knew the consequences given i had been ill and I still think it takes 2 to tango... especially in a stable relationship which it was up til this stage sure we had arguements/differences but then so do every couple. My attitude at the time was that I was very much against abortion I was very scared of taking this route and felt I could not cope doing that. It wasn't that he wouldn't let me abort at this stage, had I of said yes he would of been happy for me to do so, it was more he obviously could not force me and on the morning of the appointment he said we could try and make it work, to be honest I was relieved I had not slept or eaten for days at the thought of it.
There was no doubt of the parentage of the pregnancy, i knew it was Arons, however due to the fact that I had gone back to Rich and had an affair with Aron I did not see this as a
good basis to bring a child into the world, as much as I did not want to go ahead with an abortion i felt it was my only option...I felt trapped and was unable to really make a decision (that sounds stupid I know) my head was all over the place and I was unable to work through the decision with any real sense of it all.
I think as many of you say it would do me good to be alone and yes the prospect of that does scare me a little, every time I have tried to be alone, there have been major upsets such as my son being ill and even though I have gone through alot on my own and know i'm capable i find this very daunting and it makes me feel very isolated and lonely which is what I don't cope well with. I have gone back to Aron twice and when i say i have gone back and forth I mean that i have gone back to Rich then left and been on my own then gone back to Rich and so the circle repeats. You are right in saying I do not want to hurt Aron and I have tried as much as possible to keep my distance and not drag him in to the mess which more than anything would confuse matters for everybody and not be good for my son.
Finally when i'm with Rich he can be fantastic, he would do alot of the care for our son, cook, do housework (although he has a very tinted view of what it involves!)He would let me have time to do those things as a mother we rarely get time for like have a bath, read a book etc... we can have fun, go out (babysitter permitting of course)have perfectly adult conversations and generally get on really well.
It's rare that he would do anything that would directly upset me/ be cause for me to leave although it does occasionally happen (ie things like messenger to the woman he possibly had an affair with but that hasnt happened since to my knowledge)its more that this anger takes over me, I feel so angry that he could put us through what he has, angry that I feel the way i do, upset that he could ever hurt me and my unborn son (back then) so much and then I blow my top or go into a little dream world of 'what on earth am i doing?!' and then I just want to go and need to be on my own, I miss Aron more at these times and feel very trapped and just as isolated and lonely as i do when i'm on my own. This effect can take anything from a couple of hours to a couple of days to engulf me but once it does i feel a mixture of relief and dissapointment, anxiety, stress and pure hurt, it makes me very confused and then i feel unable to think straight like I did when making such an important decision but equally like a weight has been lifted and i'm not trapped. Usually at the same time as this Rich would be verbally abusive and say things that make me think his behaviour is an act and not that he has really changed.
As you all say I need to get myself some help, maybe it would be possible to be with someone one day even work the relationship out with Rich or be happy with Aron but right now i need to sort myself out.
Thank you, i'm sorry this is so long, much of it has helped me listen to what is going on in my head!
x
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A
female
reader, jenna34  +, writes (26 February 2008):
I think everyone is right about spending time to take care of you. I agree with red that this will take a counselor to really work through it and I think oldersister is right about you not seeing that you chose all this pain for yourself so you need to find out why so you no longer put yourself as the victim of these men. You are about to make the same choice again and it will only bring pain. Sounds like you are using aaron to get a response from Rich and this is not good. You are all mixed up about everything you have been through. I think everyone is giving you important advice and I hope you listen to it and take it. You have spent most of this time writing about how bad Rich is and all of the things he has done but yet you end it with a question about you getting back together. You really need to take red's advice about the counselor, she probably put it nicer than i could have because i am a little angry about you not mentioning now your children are going to be effected by all this. Maybe others don't feel the same way but I have to be honest and let you know it really bothers me.
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A
female
reader, red1982 +, writes (26 February 2008):
Please don't stay with either. I know how hard we try to stay with the father of our children, but he will not bring you the happiness you seek, or be a stable and loving father to your baby. I stayed with my baby's fatehr far longer then I should have just because I thought that was the right thing to do for my son, until I had it explained to me that my son seeing his father hitting me would eventually get him hurt because he would try to stand up for me in his own little way, or would lead to him being abusive towards women in the future.
You don't know which one to choose because neither of them are right for you at this time, and I think that you need to take some space from both of them and allow your head time to work things out.
I now there is help available, for men who want to stop being violent towards their partner but is he actually able to admit the violence and take steps to prevent it happening again. If he feels that he is I know that there is a phone help line called respect for men who have been violent towards their partners and want to get help the number is 0845 122 8609. And his GP will be able to help him get anger management help. But I would recommend that you leave him until he has sought help.
You are not stupid so please don't put yourself down like that. You just haven't taken a step back from your life to put things properly in perspective. If you go to your GP they can organise for you to see a trained counsellor who will help you to sort out what is going round in your head and put some sense into what you want out of life. And hopefully help you to let your head rule this decision rather then your heart (which never sees things properly).
But I would suggest that you spend some time on your own, before choosing either of these men. After counselling you may find that you don't want either of them. Or that you know which one you do want to be with.
Please keep us updated with your situation.
Take care
xxx
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A
female
reader, Aylarsh +, writes (26 February 2008):
 WHat you have gone through is very hard and my heart goes out to you! I would do the same in your position. You do love rich and he's the father of your Son,you can't help wanting a functioning family.You aren't going mad at all. You are smart for moving on. the only reason Rich wanted you back was because you were interested in someone else not him and you were having his child not rich's. go back to Aron please he cares for you more then this rich ever wll all rich will do is cause you heart ache and pain. Aron sounds like a better parent to your son. Rich was there at the hospital which shows if he feels up to it he'll be there for his family. PLease go with Aron he wil care for you ore then this rich ever will!!Keep us Aunts posted about what happens to you please! I wish you so much luck love and feel free to message me!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 February 2008): Rich has behaved badly in the past, but have you considered why?
You say you were taking the pill but were ill, sorry but the average guy wouldn't understand the subtleties of such things and really you should of made sure that you were covered, especially knowing that he wasn't ready for children with you. You have obviously discussed contraception together and as far as he was concerned it was covered.
Even so he wouldn't let you abort? Why was this? What was your attitude like at this time?
I find it strange that he wouldn't let you abort at this time but pushed you into a termination later. As you say was after an affair with Aron. So was there doubt over the parentage of this pregnancy?
You jumped straight from Rich to Aron, reading between the lines you left Rich to be with Aron, but you now drift between the two? Why is this? You need to work out why? Rich must give you something that Aron doesn't and vice versa.
Why do you need to be with either of them? Maybe you should think about that? You've already said that you were scared of being alone, could this be the reason?
Rich still wants you knowing you have had an affair, and seems to be making an effort. The going back and forth for months suggests it was more than once. But this guy still wants you. I know of people who justify this to themselves by telling themselves that they were only with one or other at the time, but really you are cheating on both of them and yourself.
As with most of these things we are getting one side of the story. Maybe you should email Rich the link to this question and ask him to comment and explain his side of the story. This would make things a lot clearer to everyone, and allow a more balanced discussion.
Going out on a limb, I think you are letting your childhood feelings for Aron cloud your judgment. What happens when you are with Rich? Do you fight and leave or do you just decide to go?
As you say relationships take work, and running away as soon as it gets a bit gritty doesn't help.
You have an organization named 'Relate' in the UK. You both have a lot to talk about and I can't help thinking that there is a lot more to this than you are ready to let total strangers on the internet know. Maybe a session or two with a trained person (either alone or together) would help you make your mind up either way.
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A
female
reader, jabey +, writes (25 February 2008):
well firstly, i have to tell you you are a very brave lady, you have been through some extremely, turbulaent, and difficult times.
And now I feel the answer is simple, aaron from what I have read in your note has not physically or mentally abused, or controlled you. This Rich, i read has physically, attacked you, emotional abused you and when you finally move on comes back for you, and controls you.
He has even insisted that you abort a child.
You must see how all that reads, you say he has changed, but im not sure i could ever trust a man who has been so terrible to you.
You must think long and hard about not just your future but your sons too, who is the safest man to be with, who will love and care for you and never hurt you .
You must know that answer. Be with the man who will never lay a finger on you, especially as you love him, your son deserves that in his life.
Be strong, ty not to allow this man to shred you of who you are. Good luck and please have a happy future xxx
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