A
female
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*tuck Like Chuck
writes:I have been living with my significant other for about a year and a half, and his best friend is his ex-girlfriend, whom he used to be deeply in love with, and she with him. He told me they never officially broke up, just sorta drifted apart when he saw her and her girlfriend get naked, in the hot tub, with some males half their age, who were also naked. They live several hours apart, now, but they had continued to talk over the phone nearly every day, for years. When we first got together I was open towards being her friend, when he introduced her over the phone. I have male friends too. I noticed that she got very quiet when I'd begin to talk about our relationship... almost as if she was uncomfortable when hit in the face with the fact that there was someone else in his life now. It wasn't my imagination, he said that he had picked up on the same thing, whenever he would talk about me. She would call over and over, when I first started visiting. He wouidn't answer the phone, though I'd try to get him to. After I'd moved in, this continued, but mostly she would call early in the mornings, while she was on her way to work, and I had already left the house. I wouldn't have cared, but whenever I'd call just to tell him I was thinking about him, while at work (as is the case in new relationships) he would refuse to beep over and allow me my 5 seconds. This is when it became annoying, whenever I couldn't reach him because she had him occupied. I begin to suggest that perhaps he could sorta let her know that it might be better if she sorta backed away a little to give us time to get our relationship going. Mostly I thought she should understand that the relationship between them had to change, in order for him to have someone else in his life. He refused to say or do anything that would hurt her feelings, because she had been such a good friend to him. He said he hoped she would move on and that she was of the past and perhaps he should let it go. And he'd tell me she said things like, "What ever happened to the days when things were simple and we did things together and just had fun." I felt that was an inappropriate comment and sounded as if she was still interested. To make matters worse, she sent a belated birthday present to him, that had been boxed up for several months, from before I moved in with him, and there was a framed romantical style picture of herself walking down the beach. I thought this was odd, even he did, but I took the high road, even though he said I could throw it away if I wanted to, and placed it in a sport where he could see it. Though I had begun to grow uncomfortable with things, I was dealing with it until his way of carrying out my suggestion, of asking her to back off a bit, was to tell her that I was jealous of her, but that he wasn't going to let me come between their friendship. I know this because he told me. I wss shocked and hurt that he would involve her in our personal business, that he would embarrass and humiliate me like that. His other female friend always mentioned my name, whenever she'd leave messages on the phone, and I had never had a problem with her, and I know he was involved with her, in the past, as well. If I was just a jealous person, wouldn't I have a problem with that, too? As requested, I called the ex-girlfriend to let her know how a medical procedure had turned out, on my significant other. But the very next time she called the house she didn't even say hello to me, she just asked to speak to him, totally bypassing me. I felt this was rude, especially after I'd gone out of my way to show respect to her by calling her. When I mentioned, to him, that his other friend always showed respect for my position, and spoke to me or mentioned my name, lo and behold the ex started leaving my name on messages, but I felt it was contrived and not from the heart, that he had mentioned it. Months went by and I saw less and less of her number on our caller ID. I was happy about that. I thought she was finally getting it, but that was when I also found out he had told her I was jealous, but wasn't gonna let me come between them. That sorta messed things up for me. Once, after that, I saw the number on caller ID, apparently she had called 3 or 4 weeks earlier. I asked if she had just took it upon herself to call, or if he had told her to call. He said he didn't know she had called. I didn't believe him, since I felt he had betrayed me by sharing, with her, our issues. I would like to know, couldn't he have found a better way to get her to stop calling, rather than make me the heavy? What I had hoped for was a show of love from him, that she could see... for him to let her know that he loved and respected me enough to ask her to back off a bit... and while he was telling me that perhaps she would (but he wasn't going to hurt her feelings) he was telling her that I was jealous of her. I felt this was playing us against one another and also showing more care, concern and respect for her, than for me, his significant other. Well, I didn't believe that he didn't know she had called when I asked him about it. And I later found out that she was saying things like, "I don't understand why I can't talk to my best friend anymore!" ... and so he had told her to call the next day and the time was after I had already left for work, between 7:30-8:00. Now all of this stuff had developed into a huge unresolved issue, that kept coming back up again, over and over, because we could not resolve it. It was to the point of my almost leaving. I gave her a call and told her that I was, and at that time I told her what he wouldn't tell her, that he had hoped she would move on, and how confusing it was for me, him telling me that, then to find out he was telling her something entirely different. And I spoke with her about the picture she had sent. I told her that I had felt it was inappropriate, since we were living together. She stumbled around saying that she had hoped that it wouldn't interfere. My thought was, if she thought that it might, if she really cared about him, as a friend, why would she risk causing trouble and send it anyway? People have said, to me, that she must have wanted him to think of her. He had left his email account not signed out, on my computer, though I had told him 3 times to sign it out before he closed his page out. After a time, my curiosity got the best of me, I had to know if he had been lying to me and just exactly what he was saying to her, about me. And what I had found out was that he has trashed me and my entire family, to her, and calling me vulgar names. I also found out that he had considered sneaking out to meet her somewhere, though it supposedly never happened. And that she had considered using her father's calling card, to call, so that I might not know. I had decided that this was enough, and that I wanted all this sneaking stuff to stop. I didn't care if he talked to her, what I had cared about was the way he had handled my emotions. I had been upset, feeling that she had not respected me, either, and that she didn't care, really, so long as she was still able to be in touch with him, she didn't care what it risked, nor if they had to sneak. In fact, she was whining and encouraging the sneaking. So, in the phone conversation I tell her that she is free to call. I explain how confusing this had all been, to me, to have him telling me one thing, while he had been telling her another. And I told her that it had been a problem knowing that while my father was dying he was not there for me, instead, was trashing my family. She told me that he was like a girlfriend to her, now... and that they have history, memories. She said he knows her father and she is afraid his is going to die, so she needs to talk to him about stuff like that. That's when I told her that I understood, entirely, because I had needed someoen to talk to when my dad was dying, instead he was trashing me, to her. I encouraged her to call. I told her how I had encouraged him to answer the phone, when she did call, but that he wouldn't. But, for months now his emails will start out with, "she's out for a few hours, maybe I can get a few lines in, she's always hovering over me." When she asked what it is that I wanted from her, it was simple, "I want the sneaking around to stop, and the encouraging him to sneak around to stop." Again, I told her to call... I even suggested that it would probably help the situation if he did talk to her, around me... or even typed a few emails around me, I would begin to feel more comfortable, and not feel as if there are secrecies, or the need to talk about me. Like, leave my name entirely out of the email, for heaven sake. She said she didn't want to be in the middle of this. I told her that he had put her in the middle of it, when he divulged our personal issues with her, and began talking behind my back, being two-faced. And that she had also contributed, by asking for and encouraging secrecy. When I told him that I had called her because I wanted all this secrecy to stop, and for her to just feel free to call whenever I'm home, he went ballistic. He said I was trying to stir up stuff. He has always insisted that this is about jealousy and refuses to acknowledge that he acted improperly. I asked for that acknowledgment and for an apology. He refuses saying he has nothing to apologize for and insista that he did not trash my family. I'd say that telling her that we "killed" my father (he was on hospice) was trashing my family. I had also told her that I wanted him to be my best friend, she said people can have more than one best friend. It looks like I will be moving out. He won't apologize and he refuses to acknowledge his part in the mass confusion, and says that I will not be forcing him to get rid of his friends. I told him that I am not asking that, I am just asking for the apology and for things to go back to being out in the open. and not secretive. He can't hear a word I say. I know this has been long, but I feel so totally misunderstood and emotionally abused. I do know that I am having issues, here, and I feel it is because they handled it the wrong way, and showed lack of respect. He didn't sneak around to spare my feelings, at all... he started that to spare their own. However, my question is this. If I was just a jealous mean person, the way he is making me out to be, wouldn't I have also been jealous over the other person? I know the other person used to be quite beautiful, when we were young, and I know he had thought so and had slept with her. This ex who has caused the riff is not even attractive, one tiny bit... so it could not be that I am jealous of anything like that, just wanting respect for my position in his life. It feels, to me, that this goes beyond jealousy, these issues that we have, on his part, as not being loyal and honest. But, I am willing to look at myself if I have been out of line. He said that everyone he talks to can't believe I invaded his privacy by reading his emails, and that he didn't hurt me, I hurt myself by reading them. My thought is that if he was doing the right thing, there shouldn't have been anything in there to have hurt me. As well, people that I talk to can't believe she would send her picture, nor do they think highly of his trashing me and sneaking and coniving. It almost seems trivial, because they live so far apart and haven't seen one another for years. He swears that I have built a mountain out of a mole hill. I believe they are the ones that created this, at least 50% of it, my 50% having come from the confusion of the two-faced actions and inconsideration for my feelings. It was wrong to read his email, but it was also a breach of my trust for him to confide, in her, of our problems and things about my family. I am leaving here confused and feeling as if I have been an ass, and feel as if I am sinking into a deep dark hole. He says it's the principle of the thing. I think that this relationship is going down because he is cemented in some cave-man-like principle, unable to even see my view, feel my feelings, much less care about them, only hers and his. How could he expect me to just accept her without talking about these things, once he had embarrassed me by telling her that I was jealous... and made me feel not respected, by telling her that I wssn't gonna come between them, instead of subtly suggesting that she might stop calling so often. In the end, she had stopped calling, but the secrecy factor was in place. I could be wrong, but I believe there is more, in their hearts, than friendship, just by the position that they place their friendship into, and by the fact that they never really broke up, just drifted apart. I feel that she still wanted him in her life, but messed it up when she got naked with those kids, and she has continued to hang onto what she can. She has had other boyfriends, but their modus operandi has been, "did you tell your new girlfriend or boyfriend about me?" ... I feel they have that backwards, shouldn't it be me asking, "did you tell your ex about me?" I mean, it's like she wants to make sure that I know her place in his life... but not like she can respect my place. There's just been so many hurt feelings. I would appreciate any input.
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female
reader, Stuck Like Chuck +, writes (17 December 2007):
Stuck Like Chuck is verified as being by the original poster of the questionStarfairy, you are right. Ex's cause trouble. Since I wrote this posting, we have talked more. Even though she indicated that he was causing the problem, that it was he who had started the secret stuff, and he whom I needed to talk to, not her, after having many long discussions on this, and putting the pieces together, it really does seem like it has been more her, who has enouraged and demanded the secrecies, though he was wrong in telling her about the issue and talking with her about me. I think that we may have found a sort of resolution, because I finally wore him down enough for him to understand that sort of bond that I want, with a man, is one in which he doesn't talk about me, especially to an ex girlfriend or ex wife. He also came to understand that even though he may not think like me, therefore can not truly understand my reasoning... and even though he may not MEAN to hurt me... that he has to be aware that I do hurt, and that my feelings are valid... and that he contributed to this, even though he did not intend to. I think he understands that the sort of bond I want is one in which he would never say or do anything that he would not want to say or do in my presence. Even though he said things in emails, because he thought I would not find out, the energy was out there and the harm was still done... because even though, at first, I was not aware of what he had said, I had intuited that something was not straight. Somehow I knew. He acknowledged, further, what I have always felt, that she had still been very interested in him, and that it may have been hurtful, to her, for him to talk about he and I in a loving way. I think in a big way he had felt pushed into a corner... which led to the secrecies. But, after days of trying to get him to listen to me, I think he finally understands that I was truly open, in the beginning, and that it was his incorrect notion of my true intention that had caused him to act improperly. Once he felt pushed into a corner, then he went into cement mode. Not moving, and inwardly fighting against me, out of spite. I will find out, in time, I am sure, if this new bond that we set is going to stick. Thanks all!
A
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reader, starfairy  +, writes (16 December 2007):
 In my opinion ex's cause nothing but hassle, no matter how well meaning they might be!
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reader, Stuck Like Chuck +, writes (15 December 2007):
Stuck Like Chuck is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAgain, thanks so much. I think a lot of what is being said is true. Some of it is off base a bit, but largely true. I do know this, when I think of meeting someone else, I am firm on this one thing... I don't care to be involved in any relationship with any man whi is best friends with any sort of ex, whether it be girlfriend or wife. To me, that is living in the past and I am not interested in living in someone else's unresolved karma. He is so loyal to her, because when he had a heart attack a few years back (before I knew him) she came and sat by his side for two weeks, though they were not as much an item by then, because of what she had done, with the guys in that hot tub scenario. It's like some debt that he will repay till the day he dies. And she was also the first person he took up with when his wife committed suicide, so she was there to help him through a lot of those emotions. But, does seem as if it's time for him to let all that go and stop protecting her and consider me. We probably won't make it, because even though we have discussed this for days on end, he will not acknowledge that he, or she, contributed to these bad feelings.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2007): I would not like that at all. In fact I probably could not have fallen inlove with him knowing that he had this sort of relationship with his ex. Call me old fashioned but I believe you should be the ONLY woman in his life.I had two relationships with guys who had "girl" friends and the only reason I put up with it was cause I was NAIVE and truly did't know any better. And everything you have been through I have been through. I have come to realise that it is NOT something worth putting up with and that its never as platonic as they make it seem.My current boyfriend has NO girlfriends and I have him all to myself. It's FANTASTIC. We can actually enjoy our relationship without interference.You should never have to feel like you have to share him with somebody else much less another women. And much much less his ex girlfriend. That's just weird.Look he's not going to change. In all honesty I would just let this one go and move on.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 December 2007): Boy can I relate. I have been living with a man for 7 years, who I discovered a year ago that he had an ongoing relationship with a disabled woman.It was a nightmare of him sneaking around with her, being secretive etc.This last month I found out he did a complete bathroom reno for her, which he lied about and tried to make me feel like the obsessive jealous one.Its all crazy making, but hard to let go of something that feels on many levels like the real thing.Who needs a two timing emotionally unavailable man?I think if they love the ex so much they should be with them.Cut your losses trust me it doesnt get better.S
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reader, Stuck Like Chuck +, writes (15 December 2007):
Stuck Like Chuck is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks, guys, those answers were really helpful, at least they lifted a load off my chest, because he has been trying to make me the villain, this whole time. I don't feel so all alone, now. He really has no empathy for me or the ability to see beyond self and his own personal needs, wants and desires. Of course, it gets harder, trying to make the move, when he is not open to my reality. I'm always waiting for that flash moment, when he will see the light or something.
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reader, Confusedinthecity84 +, writes (15 December 2007):
 Wow.This relationship has caused you a lot of turmoil and pain. It's hard to leave someone you love, but it seems that he will always choose his ex over you. That doesn't make you a bad person, crazy, or insanely jealous. It just means that he, for one reason or another, can't seem to break it off with her. Because of that, he'll never be fully committed to you, and you'll always end up hurt and angry. You love him, but he doesn't feel the same way. I know that's hurtful--and I'm not trying to hurt you any more or cause you to suffer more than you've already suffered.I do want to encourage you to leave and not look back. Don't puzzle over him, because he's a mystery that can't be solved. Unfortunately, you got caught in the crossfire. To me, it sounds as if their love has a sort of "Dangerous Liaisons" feel to it: they connect to each other by tearing apart their significant others. Somehow, that allows them to be more intimate. You don't really want to be a part of that. Especially when you're the one getting trampled on.The good thing about the situation is that you know what you don't want in a future relationship. You don't want someone who's bitter about his exes, but I'd think twice before dating someone who considers her "one of his best friends." I think your jealous feelings are valid, and that your higher level of jealousy with this particular ex stems from the emotional connection they seem to have more than the physical chemistry he had with the other woman.I'd say let her have him and their strange relationship, and don't ever settle for a relationship with a man who is willing to let you be second place.
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reader, angelbbabe7490 +, writes (15 December 2007):
 It seems to me like your significant other isn't too sure about what he really wants in his life. You seem to be more stable than he is. Your significant other seems to be stuck in his past. If I were you i would'nt allow him to talk to his ex in the first place. Although it may be hard.. moving out may be your best option. By moving out you will give him time to think about what it is he truly wants. He needs to make a decision between the relationship of the both of you or his friendship with his ex. This may be a very hard decision.. because you have made it clear that you don't mind if he talks with her. Deep down we all know that you really do care and it bothers you that he has to talk to her behind your back. He obviously seems like he is more upset about you getting in the way of their relationship versus his ex getting in the way of you relationship with him.
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reader, angelbbabe7490 +, writes (15 December 2007):
It seems to me like your significant other isn't too sure about what he really wants in his life. You seem to be more stable than he is. Your significant other seems to be stuck in his past. If I were you i would'nt allow him to talk to his ex in the first place. Although it may be hard.. moving out may be your best option. By moving out you will give him time to think about what it is he truly wants. He needs to make a decision between the relationship of the both of you or his friendship with his ex. This may be a very hard decision.. because you have made it clear that you don't mind if he talks with her. Deep down we all know that you really do care and it bothers you that he has to talk to her behind your back. He obviously seems like he is more upset about you getting in the way of their relationship versus his ex getting in the way of you relationship with him.
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reader, starfairy +, writes (15 December 2007):
I just wanted to add as well to my previous answer, YOU should be number one. Not shared number one, not number 2...You should be his top priority.
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reader, starfairy +, writes (15 December 2007):
Personally I have found most of the time ex's keep in contact because there is something there. But sometimes ex's keep in touch because they have someone who was close to them for the duration of their relationship and have someone who knows the 'real' them.
I think your boyfriend has been bang out of order. How dare he discuss you, especially, with his ex? That's humiliating and degrading to you.
His ex sounds like she's playing the innocent but is stirring it up. She knows it and she loves it, and she knows how to play your boyfriend.
I think you should cut your losses. If he can't apologise then he's not worth it.
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