A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:Do you think it's unreasonable for a husband to request that his wife not kiss mutual male friends hello and goodbye on the lips?We only have one male friend who does this. He does it to other wives as well. He had been a mutual friend for 10 years or so. We have many friends of longer standing (20 or 30 years), who don't do this. I have no reason to believe it is anything but a platonic gesture. Still, it makes me uncomfortable I do not like it. When I explained this to my wife, she got very upset. She stated that I was being controlling. That it is awkward for her to turn her head from him. Also, that is is "childish" for me to make such a request. To be honest, her reaction to my request made me more uncomfortable than the original issue. If something so simply avoided is upsetting your spouse, why not just say OK, I will turn my head? Are his feelings more important than mine? What feeelings can he really have anyway - is it reasonable for anyone to have an expectation that he can kiss a friend's wife on the lips? Am I being too controlling or unreasonable? I just do not like watching another her man, not afamily member, kissing my wife on the lips... what do you all think?
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female
reader, oliviaclairex  +, writes (23 October 2016):
 I personally don't think you should worry at all, I kiss all my guy friends on the lips, it's just something our friendship group has always done. And you said yourself you don't think anything is happening?I do get what you're saying about, if it upsets you why can't she turn her head and not do it. But maybe she thinks you don't trust her?If there's any other reason, say he's flirty with her, I think that would be a good enough reason to say 'hey look he's flirty with you and then you both kiss on the lips I don't like it' but if there's definitely nothing between them, I really don't think it should worry!However everyone's different and if it's something you aren't used to then I can imagine it might feel weird!Why don't you ask her how she would feel if you greeted one of your female friends that way? And maybe then she will see your side
A
female
reader, YouWish +, writes (19 October 2016):
 I read your follow-up, OP, and I don't get the idea that you've suddenly started disliking this, but that you've been disliking this the whole time, but it's now the symptom of many small things and a rift that's starting up between you.
For example, why would she HAVE to put it, "Joe doesn't like it when we kiss. I think that's silly. What do you think" That's the most telling part of your follow up here, because the way you phrased her possible imagined conversation, you phrased it like a passive-aggressive put-down of you! You are WORTH more than that!!
Why couldn't the conversation between her and your longtime friend (in private, you don't have to be there!) be "Hey Jake, how about we just hug hello or kiss on the cheek from now on. Joe and I've known you forever, and I know it's just friendly, but I want to reserve kissing on the mouth for him. Nothing against you at all!" If it were me, I wouldn't say "Hey, my husband gets uncomfortable with..." making him seem like less of a person in anyone else's eyes.
I do agree with Honeypie and the others in that this is a deeper issue here than just the guy's kisses. There's more, and this is the tip of the iceberg of some rift between you and your wife. She may be resenting you for something else, and she's taking it out on this issue to dig in, or you may be upset at something else about her, whether she puts you down or belittles you or something else, but it's this subject that's just pushing you over the edge.
Either way, this is your lynch pin. It's hers too, and you've come to a head over it. I wonder if you two shouldn't get some counseling together to untangle this rift that this kissing issue is exposing. It would be easy to just hit the kissing issue, but your follow up makes me think that there's a lot more to it between you.
I'm guessing by your "sideways" manner you put in your "follow-up" that your wife has the stronger personality in your marriage. This in itself can be a source of resentment to you, and it's a good of a reason as any to have the two of you and a licensed therapist spend some time. Trust me, the time you three spend could turn back the clock in your marriage by at least 10 years, enough to spark some feelings between you that may have been latent!
The best outcome would be for her to abandon her line in the sand and wonder WHY she would ever want to argue with you about kissing another man. When you put it in print like this, when you're in love with the person, talking about kissing another sounds almost unthinkable.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (19 October 2016):
 You write:
"Idk...some ideal, that may not even really be what's happening here, that a woman should never capitulate or compromise to a request from her husband that can be viewed as a request to control her free will to use her body as she pleases?"
So no it's not some feminist "stronghold" or "holdout" where she should ignore your request - it's an issue of YOU not articulating WHY this suddenly bothers you. The whole "it makes ME uncomfortable, so don't do it, end of debate" is NOT having a conversation about it. That is "ordering her" to do or not do something to soothe you.
And OF COURSE she can compromise (if she chooses), most wives probably would.
I think you NEED to figure out why it offends you NOW. Like Cindy asked. If he has done this for 10 years why have you not asked her to turn her cheek 10 years ago?
And I think you need to find a way to EXPLAIN your stance better. I think YOUR wife is "raising her hackles" because whatever reason you gave felt like a BS reason out of the blue. To me, it ALMOST sounds like you asked her to jump for no other reason than to see how high she chooses to jump. And she told you no, I'm not going to jump.
I have a stubborn streak, always did. And there are definitely times where I tell my husband no, I'm not doing that. He respects that and if I ask things of him he doesn't WANT to do, I respect that. Usually, we find compromises, we are fairly adept at that, but sometimes it's a agree to disagree situation.
So maybe figure out why 1. WHY now? and 2. HOW to explain it to your wife so it doesn't come across as an accusation or insecurity.
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female
reader, Anonymous 123  +, writes (19 October 2016):
 To be honest, I don't really understand what you're trying to say in your follow-up. You sound confused about what you're trying to say and I don't think your thoughts are sorted.
Look, its very simple and there's no reason to complicate things.
Communicate.
This is what I've learnt from my parents and their 35 years of a rock solid marriage. Talk, air your opinions, say what you feel.
What works for you might not work for others and you have to decide mutually what works for you. As you can see from the answers here, the consensus is divided. While some aunts feel that it is unreasonable for you to expect her to not kiss the guy, others feel that as her husband its a perfectly reasonable request. To each his own. The question is, what do YOU feel? And like in any healthy relationship, you should have the freedom and the space to talk to your wife about what bothers you and the same applies to her.
This is not a complex situation at all. Its just a friend who kisses her on the lips and you want that to stop. So just sit her down when she's in an amiable mood and talk to her and tell her what you feel. Without sermonizing, without patronizing, without lecturing. Its a simple enough matter that can be sorted out between a man and his wife in no time. This doesn't have to become a feminist issue, this doesn't have to become a debate about her free will to use her body as she pleases...this is just a very simple topic about you not being comfortable with another man kissing your wife on the lips. Period. I'm sure that if you two talk it out, it'll all be fine. Everything needn't be turned into a political debate and if she's getting angry, then she's the one being unreasonable, not you. This is nothing to get angry about.
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (19 October 2016):
 Maybe this is neither her nor there, but I admit I am curious, and if possible I would like to know how come these kisses bother you NOW.
I mean, you have known this guy for ten years and it's been ten years that he has been kissing your wife, and those other wives, left and right.
How come this only started bothering you now ? Or, has it been bothering you since day one and you have been secretly fuming about it for the whole ten years ?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (19 October 2016): Girl kissing another guy while in a relationship=Cheating=move on. You're being cheated on.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): OP here again. Thanks once more for all your varied opinions. Just to answer a few suggestions here. I did not do to the friend and ask him to stop. I thought doing so would probably make my wife really mad and/or embarrassed. I looked at this issue as being one that related to my wife and my intimacy, our relationship, and deciding the parameters with which we are both comfortable. In other words, not something in which to bring a third party. I know that if, at this point, my wife brought up to him, "Joe doesn't like it when we kiss. I think that's silly. What do you think?" I would feel very betrayed. His opinion is not relevant, and how would that apply to the next person that my wife and he kiss each other on the lips? Basically, if my wife thinks me asking her to stop is my being controlling, how would she feel if I went behind her back to enlist the agreement of someone outside our marriage to control her behavior also?In any event, I asked her to stop, gave her the reasons why it made me uncomfortable (and why it didn't - e.g. I don't suspect it means anything sexual), and she got angry. At this point I have no choice but to move on and let the issue rest. As many of you have said, I cannot, in fact, control what she does with her body. I find it sad though, or unfortunate rather. While I would not go behind my wife's back and invite a third person to have a say in what are intimate issues of our marriage (e.g. Feelings, trust, rules of engagement with the opposite sex, etc.), it certainly does not enhance my intimate feelings of closeness to my wife, to have shared with her something I find distressing, easily remedied, that she chooses to ignore, because...Idk...some ideal, that may not even really be what's happening here, that a woman should never capitulate or compromise to a request from her husband that can be viewed as a request to control her free will to use her body as she pleases?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): I also think you have the right to be upset. You should have shown your objection on the spot and told the guy if he knew that kissing other guys wives and gfs on their lips is totally unacceptable and he could get punched on the nose for doing it.Clearly he needs someone to tell him.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): I can see both sides but if l'm honest l'd be very unhappy if my partner kissed his female friend on the lips.
That said after 10 years it's going to be difficult for her to now turn her head away and not like she's suddenly started snubbing him and is making a thing out of it.
I agree with a previous poster you should talk to him about it if you feel that strongly and he can change his behaviour towards your wife.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (18 October 2016):
 I think it can swing both ways. On the one hand, it is a friendly gesture, it's been done for years, and the only reason she would stop would be because you said so. Which can be translated into "husband controls wife". If you get to decide this, where do you draw the line? What about if you become uncomfortable about hugs? Or tight dresses? I mean, this could easily be seen as a stepping stone into the categorically "controlling husband".
Then again, kisses on lips is generally seen as an intimate gesture done only between those romantically involved. Apart from in those cultures where you kiss family or children on the lips, it's seen as okay because it is not romantic. Obviously.
But then this too has a gray line, because in some cultures, and in some circles, kissing on lips between adult friends (and we're just talking a peck here), is seen as the exact same as kissing on the cheek. Like it isn't much of a difference.
I think this boils down to whether or not she used to do this before you and her were an item. If she did it then, she should be allowed to do it now. If this is something that recently began happening, I say it's okay to state that you are uncomfortable about it and ask if she could stop it.
However, that's a mute point, because you already did state that you are uncomfortable about it, whether it was reasonable or not. Not only did you state it, apparently it turned into a debate and she threw the "controlling husband" card. That means it's serious.
Here is my strategy to make this good again: Lay low for a week or two. Don't mention it. Next time you meet this friend of yours, just see what happens. Don't judge, don't show any feelings. Just see what happens. It could be she doesn't kiss him on the lips, and if so, NEVER mention this ever ever again.
If she DOES kiss him on the lips, don't mention anything to her about it again. Instead, talk to the guy. He is a mutual friend of yours after all, you can talk to him. Tell him while it's great to have him as a friend and how much he means to you both etc, that you have become a bit uncomfortable by kisses on the lips, and if he wouldn't mind not doing it. Say that his wife doesn't mind the kisses, but that she is afraid to offend him if she was to turn her head. So you decided you would just talk to him about it instead. Have this talk when you're both in a splendid mood and preferably with some alcohol involved. Say you'd like to keep the conversation between you and him, so as to not make wifey uncomfortable as she cares so much for this mutual friend etc etc etc.
Good luck!
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A
male
reader, N91 +, writes (18 October 2016):
 I agree with you also, I don't think it's controlling. It's a behaviour that you feel uncomfortable watching and I don't feel it's unreasonable to ask her to stop.
If I had a gf I wouldn't even dream of kissing a female friend on the lips, it wouldn't even enter my head and I couldn't see it going down well.
You've asked her to stop but it doesn't sound like she's going to, so it's up to you what you do from here.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): This is strange. I have never seen a friend or even relatives kiss each other on the lips. I can imagine how uncomfortable it is for you to watch this. My advise is to show your post and all the responses to your wife so she may realize you have a right to be uncomfortable. She should avoid the guy. Nothing is wrong with turning head and kissing him on the cheek insted when he is aiming for the lips. He will get the message hopefully! I have done that but it was a different case. It was one of my friends who was hugging and kissing on the cheek and I didn't like it, so when I met him again I kept my distance and shook his hand and he got the body language and that was it. No more hugs! She can try it too but she should be willing to do that!
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female
reader, YouWish +, writes (18 October 2016):
I'm with Anon123 on this as well. I'm actually on your side here on this one, and while I understand the opposite side of this issue, here's why I'm in your corner:
I don't know if you remember the original Family Feud with Richard Dawson, but given your age range and the fact that you live in the US, it's possible that you totally remember it. It still plays on reruns on various stations to this day.
Richard Dawson, while he was the game show host of the Family Feud, was known for two things. One - his obvious talent and personality on the show and Two - he kissed every woman and girl there on the lips. It was a small peck, and it was the 70's and early 80's and again in the 90's, and everyone knew it was a platonic thing. He did it for many years.
What's less known about Richard Dawson is this:
He hosted the show while he was single for many years. On one particular episode, he met a pretty single woman who eventually became his wife. So he met the woman as a contestant, while he was doing his trademark kissing every woman and shaking every guy's hand on the show, and he dated her, and married her.
After he married her, to show her respect and to honor her feelings on the matter, he never kissed another woman on Family Feud or any other game show again. He could have argued that it was platonic, that he was known for it, that she was "controlling" for feeling uncomfortable, but he honored her wishes.
They were married until he died in 2012.
I personally as a married woman would only kiss three people on the lips...my husband, obviously. . My father when I was little, and my son when he was little. There are a LOT of other ways, very friendly ways, to greet another guy. If my husband expressed discomfort at my kissing another man on the lips, I wouldn't do it.
I know what people mean about "Not owning" lips, and all that, but what if it was a french kiss that the guy wanted to give in a friendly manner? It's not the same as a guy dictating what a woman wears or how she styles her hair or who she talks to or whether or not she can have a job or certain friends or is cut off from family. It's not a "control" thing.
I don't think it's childish of you at all to ask. You didn't abuse her or demand or berate her. I think she's not being fair to you by calling you childish. We do things for our spouses and make compromises all the time for the sake of a happy marriage. I buy skim milk for my husband, though it tastes like water to me, and he keeps the toothpaste tube clean and squeezes from the bottom for me.
I know other people disagree with you, but what a hell of a thing to get stubborn about. You'd throw yourself into the fire for her because you love her. It's not about control. It's about love. Any woman that NEEDS to kiss another guy on the mouth is a woman who isn't thinking about a marriage in the long term. It's not unreasonable!
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): OP here. Thanks for your responses. I guess I must be off on this one. It does bother me to see this happen. It is not a feeling rooted in jealousy or worry of the kiss meaning something more. There are no deep underlying problems in our relationship. It's just a simple gut reaction - my wife's lips are a special intimate zone for me, and I don't like watching her share them with another man.
To give this a little context, I don't ever tell my wife what she can or cannot wear, put demands on what she does and with whom when she goes out for the evening without me, what time she comes home, how much she chooses to drink, her shopping decisions, with whom she may associate. In other words, I am not a controlling husband, in the stereotypical sense.
I guess I don't understand why it is offensive or objectionably controlling to request my wife not to do this. There are many things that I don't do out of respect for my wife's feelings - whether I share, or agree, with those feelings or not. I don't look at those aspects as being controlling; rather, the thought of my doing something that is hurtful to my .wife very important to me. However, your responses have made me reconsider. I recognize that I don't always have to understand what may be important to my wife, in order to honor them. Thus, I will just take it at face value that for many women, including my wife, being asked by their husbands to do anything with their bodies that they don't want to do - just is controlling. And perhaps women have a legitimate (in comparison with men) aversion to controlling behavior with respect to what they do with their bodies. I guess I will just keep my mouth shut and my feelings to myself from now on, and look away each time they kiss each other...
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): I'm with anonymous123. Kissing on the mouth is for intimate relationships between family or partners. If it was so normal to kiss on the mouth between friends why aren't we all doing it? Fact is we aren't because it's a step too far. Ultimately you can only state your discomfort. Your wife decides how to respond to it.
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female
reader, Youcannotbeserious +, writes (18 October 2016):
 My bosses (married) and I always kiss on the lips in a social situation. It is just something which has happened over the years and, as we have worked together for a long time, we are quite close. It does not mean there is anything "going on". My long-standing partner sees nothing strange in this at all and has no problem with it, neither do any of the wives.
I think if you have such a problem with this then YOU should have a word with this man. Why should it be down to your wife? SHE is not the one with the problem.
Given that it is not only YOUR wife he does it with, I really do not see what your problem is, This just sounds like someone who is quite relaxed about this sort of social contact.
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female
reader, Andie's Thoughts +, writes (18 October 2016):
 I think kissing on the lips is something for couples, so I wouldn't kiss my children on the lips either. I've found someone who is the same and I'd feel very uncomfortable if anyone kissed them on the lips, even platonically.However, I wouldn't distrust my boyfriend over it and I wouldn't try to control him either, is simply explain that if he doesn't mind, I'd rather he didn't let people kiss him like that because it makes me uncomfortable, as I feel it's a thing for couples only.Then, if he respected my feelings, but had a good reason for not stopping, I'd just have to accept it.It's reasonable to ask and explain your feelings, but not make your wife feel like you're accusing her of anything or not trusting her. She could turn her cheek and doesn't want to, probably because nobody else does. Learn to let it go or break up. I don't think breaking up over this would be wise, unless there's more to it.
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female
reader, CindyCares +, writes (18 October 2016):
Ues, it is unreasonable. It is unreasonable any request aimed to limit or dictate the way your partner uses her body, voice, gestures etc. as long as the context is obviously innocent and non sexual.
Tbh, personally, I would not dream of kissing male friends or acquaintances on their lips- I'd find it superflous, obstentatious, and a bit eeeww too. I don't enjoy mouth-to-mouth contact unless motivated by physical attraction. But, I am not a touchy -feely type , even less a kissy-kissy one ( a rare exception in a country of big huggers and kissers )so that's just me. Many other people have no problems with lips contact and use it routinely without sexual undertones , just as a sign of affection .
So, if you have no reason to suspect that there's anything more going on than just being friendly, yes your request is unreasonable, because you don't own your wife's lips and you should not be telling her how she is or is not allowed to use them.
And no, your " feelings " don't always authomatically come first. Otherwise, by the same token, she should never wear green if you hate that colour, or vote Republican if you detest Republicans and so on and so forth. Being considerate of your feelings does not mean obeying all your requests, regardless of how rational/ appropriate / sensible they are.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): No I don't find your request unreasonable at all. I would be very uncomfortable if my spouse or partner kissed their friend on the lips.
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (18 October 2016): It makes you uncomfortable, she should stop because you're the one she loves. No it's not unreasonable to ask her not to. But why haven't you went to this friend and said, "stop it," already? I don't know where some of these other aunties are from, but where I'm from, that's definitely a no - no. Friend or no friend. Would she kiss an old female friend on the lips? Bet not!
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female
reader, Anonymous 123 +, writes (18 October 2016):
I'm in a minority here but I'm with you. I wouldn't like it if my husband kissed a woman friend in the lips, no matter how platonic it was and I'm sure husband wouldn't like it if I did it either. You are her husband, your feelings are more important than the other man's and what you're asking for is not unreasonable.
I also get your wife's reaction... She's hurt that you're implying that she's not to be trusted and she's lashing out and bring stubborn about it but if you sit her down and explain to her what your concerns are, I'm sure she'd understand.
That being said, is everything else OK with the marriage?
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male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (18 October 2016):
 She refuses to control herself, she refuses to be controlled by you. There is only one thing left to do. Prove to her that you can not be controlled by her either. File.
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female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (18 October 2016):
I get why your wife is offended, it makes you come off as controlling, insecure and well distrustful. However, I think for her to RESPECT that you don't LIKE for other men to kiss her on the lips and thus turning her face is an option, but it's HER choice, not yours. She can always make it into a "French" greeting “faire la bise” with 2-3 light or air kisses near the cheeks.
Personally, I don't kiss male friends on the lips. Cheek, maybe, rarely. I'm not really good at letting people invade my personal space and I'm not big on PDA either. Hugs works for me. But unless the man is my husband, my brother, father or uncle (yep I'd kiss those with a peck on the lips) there is no kissing going on.
If it bothered my husband that I kissed a family member on the lips I'd probably tell him to get a grip.
This is how he (your friend) greet the ladies, personally, I don't see the big deal if he has been doing it for 10 years. While I do think your wife could consider turning her cheek, I think you are making a drama out of nothing. You don't OWN her lips.
You have told her how you felt, she can CHOOSE to turn her face or ignore your petty request. (because yes, I find it a little petty to "demand" after 10 years if there is NO real reason for it.)
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female
reader, Ivyblue  +, writes (18 October 2016):
 A quick peck, no but a hard lingering one yes. I have to agree lips are an, more so I think, intimate part of sexuality but in this case, as you have said yourself a platonic move. Try not let it get to you.
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female
reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (18 October 2016):
 OP, I have to ask is this the only problem in your marriage? That your wife accepts the social kisses of a man you've been friends with for 10 years?
Does she spend a lot of time alone with him? Do you see this man every day, every week, every month, a few times a year?
It's clear that you are not happy about this situation, you've asked for guidance and help in this, I just wonder what else is going on in your marriage that makes this so upsetting that you felt the need to ask agony aunts for advice?
And from a personal perspective, your question "is it reasonable for anyone to have an expectation that he can kiss a friend's wife on the lips?" My answer is yes.
Is there something else going on in your marriage that is causing you so much discomfort in this?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2016): You should be able to tell your spouse if something makes you uncomfortable. It is not unreasonable or controlling, it is how it makes you feel.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 October 2016): My reaction is the same as that of your wife. She was offended because you implied that she first of all doesn't know how to handle herself as your wife. You also implied she was enjoying it on the sly and that you don't trust her.
Sir, I do understand as a husband you do have your boundaries; but you have to consider that a peck on the lips is nothing. A little healthy jealousy is okay; but you could have approached your wife about it more respectfully. Don't try to cast a guilt-trip on her by implying she is placing his feelings above yours when you know better than that.
I would be worried if it were a lingering kiss or tongues involved. The other wives and husbands don't seem to have a problem with it; and I have to wonder how often do you see this guy that you should be so concerned about something as trivial as a peck on the lips? It's his style, and he's been doing it consistently over the years. It would be different if it was a sudden new behavior and you had evidence your wife was having some sort of affair.
Don't you trust your wife? You have no reason to believe it is anything but a platonic gesture, you said yourself.
However; I slightly disagree with your wife that she can't offer him a cheek instead of a lip-kiss. He'd think noting of it most likely. The only one really bothered about it is you. Maybe she should consider your feelings, but I think the matter has been blown a little out of proportion.
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