A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I'm concerned I've been putting in some male form of the friend zone but don't know. I have been friends with this guy for 2 years. We talk everyday on the phone, he has told me very personal things he doesn't tell anyone else, he has rearranged his work schedule around sometimes so he can spend time watching shows with me, I'm all by myself all day so he bought me a puppy, I went to visit a friend and there was a real problem at her house so he bought me a ticket the next day to fly me out of there cause he didn't want me in that drama anymore, he has this mother and aunt make me stuff for my birthday or holidays, and a million small other things. If another girl told me about all this stuff I would tell her this guy likes her. But I swear I feel like I'm in the female equivalent of the friend zone! I'm trying to be logical about this and look at all the signs I would tell anyone else to look for. He doesn't seem to be dating anyone else, he seems to give me all his attention, he says all those things that you just know is more than a friend thing to say like "You deserve all the happiness in the world and I wish I could give it you", I'm pretty darn sure he is physically attracted to me too. But still it's like nothing is happening!And I'm doing all this stuff to show him that I care too. I tell him how much he means to me, I give him amazing gifts (his words), bake things for him, am always there for him, always compliment him on how good he is at things like his job or how he dresses or how he treats me or his family, I even say things like "You are so sexy in that!" just so he knows how attracted to him I am. So I feel like from both angles we are both making it clear that we like each other and that there is no one else that we want but nothing is happening!! And before you tell me to ask him out I already did for heaven's sake! 2 weeks into knowing him I asked him out and he pulled away from it. We remained friends but like 2 months after that he changed and started treating me more the way I said above. Being overly generous and caring all the time. I've come to realize he is a slow moving man in general and I know if any woman asked him out after 2 weeks he would be freaked out. But I'm kickback now and am letting him take the reins on this cause I can't lose him as a friend by asking him out again and having him shock the hell out of me and say no! So I'm at my wits end!! I've had guys get to know me for 2 or 3 years before asking me out but never a guy be this close to me and still stale on doing it. So for the sake of logic, the only two things that I can see that might be an issue of why he hasn't is 1) He is trying to establish a business that is very rocky and I don't know if he feels that he can be a good boyfriend as he does this or 2) I have been ill for several years now and am trying to get better but it is slow going. I can occasional run errands but I can't do much more than that. Also, I guess one more thing might be 3) I came from a very conservative background (I thought about being a nun at one point when I was younger) and he has a very liberal background and did a lot of kind of shady things. But he isn't like that now and I make it clear that I know what a good man he is. The above 3 reasons might make me sound dense that I don't see why he is staling but when you are in the middle of something you can't see it yourself. I'm sure those reasons are good reasons to wait but I can tell that he seems more frustrated and I am definitely more frustrated as time goes on. So it feels like it just needs to happen even if it's not logically a good time. So any help would be amazing cause I'm dying here!! Am I seriously in the friend zone and he is going to just show up dating another girl some day? Or because of the business/illness/ or even background concerns he is waiting for those things to work out before he starts something? I'm seriously beyond desperate at this point because nothing is making sense anymore! Reply to this Question
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (11 July 2010):
 I am happy about how things turned out. God definitely paired you up and although you weren't ready for it at first, you both had faith in it and overcame the fear and the obstacles thrown on the path. Most of the people here forgot you were sick, except for male anon because your eloquent ability to express yourself fooled us all. What a beautiful story. You should write a book about yourself and make it into a movie.
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female
reader, Denise32 +, writes (11 July 2010):
 Well, I'm glad you sat down and talked with him and got clear as to how things stand between you. A very good outcome!
Nobody here was trying to get you upset or hurt your feelings. Just giving guidance based on what you told us, and their own wisdom and experience......
I must admit, being "in the friend zone" is not something I have ever even thought about! I know of course (having dated a number of guys since being widowed some years ago) that some men one is interested in won't necessarily reciprocate, so that's when you give up on that person - quickly, before there's any time to get into a tizzy over it. Then again, I have one or two men friends I've known for years. They're just that: good friends, no more, no less, and being sexually attracted or wanting "more" doesn't enter into it.
I also am friends with an ex - not something I would normally do, or recommend, but in this case it worked out better that we (I) eventually "downgraded" it to simple friendship.......a good person, yes, but not for me, or vice versa. However, he likes my cat and is willing to take care of kitty when I'm away........all this just goes to show how much I know, LOL!
Anyway, I'm glad it all worked out for you. Best wishes!
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (11 July 2010):
 No it's all good honeypie, I was one of the wrong ones.. we see what we see, but of course we're not in your shoes and sometimes we get it wrong..
Always love and war here at Dear Cupid..
Congratulations, glad you two bloody talked at last.. As I said, 2 years is a damn long time to wait.
I love happy endings... now just get well and move on to the sex scenes.. lol
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCerebrus,
I might just be emotional today because of all that's been happening but your post made me tear up. LOL Maybe cause it still feels surreal to think that's it's resolved. So thank you for your words.
I am debating about asking you to lock it like you said. I don't want to block people cause I feel like they have the right to their opinion but I also don't want people to fight over something silly like my question.
So I'm not sure how you would lock it from other answers. But maybe that's best.
Thank you again for your help and kind words everyone. You have definitely made a difference in my life! :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 July 2010): OP don't worry about it, there's nothing personal about any of this. This is your question and asking this question helped you. That's all any of the people posting here want.
Don't take the bickering personally, that's just a clash of differing opinions. No big deal.
Frankly I can speak for most people when I say we're overjoyed by how things worked out for you, the majority of issues we get here aren't fixable and the ones that are people often refuse to or are too scared to take the necessary steps. So you have brightened our days with your story. I wish you the best of luck and good health in the future.
If you wish to have this question locked for no new answers let me know.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOK this may be a really weird request but I would like to ask if people can kind of accept what has happened and move on. I think some egos were bruised and I'm sorry for my part in that. But I am beyond happy about what has happened in my life. Because of asking this question it made me ask him and we are able to move on to a place we were both dying to move onto so badly. And it really saddens me's that I get the feeling rather than be happy for me or just be apathetic and leave it alone, I'm going to get daily updates of people fighting over the outcome.
I hope everyone just understands that we are two people they have never met once in their life. Good counseling requires many, many visits to establish diagnosis. So I know we all like having our opinion but that's all this was. This was simply a request for opinions. Thank you everyone who has given them. They really did help push me on to this outcome. I think this is one of the occasions where the full background was not established and so it led to opinions not actually based on all the knowledge. That is my fault. I didn't expect it to get into this.
Please, please no fighting over a silly question and how you think our future will actually end up. I prefer after so many years of pain that I can just enjoy my happiness without hearing nay saying based on nothing more than a hand full of paragraphs. The people in my life have made it clear they believe he loves me before this question was asked. But I had a weak moment of frustration when I asked it. If you don't believe me cause you think I have issues, at least trust that those around me seem to know what they were talking about.
Thank you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI just wanted to say a couple things to comments that I didn't see last night before we talked:
Quiet Echo,
I thought your post was beautiful. I really did. I think you picked your name correctly cause there definitely is a stillness to your words.
" I suspect there is also a fear of loss of self. Any kind of physical abuse is an intimate invasion."
I do agree with that. I've noticed the good side of this which is his respect for not wanting to hurt me when I'm not in a good place. I have had to learned there are hard things and amazing things. And I'm grateful for all the good in him. :)
" If you knew the answer to your question and there was no longer any doubt, would that change anything between you? What would the two of you be doing then that you aren't already doing? What exactly does knowing give you?"
This is the part I loved the most in your words. I don't know if this has come across in my posts but everything we had been doing was like a couple. Just without the sex. After the talk I did realize how completely impractical sex was at a certain times in this relationship. I was afraid when I brought up more he would be saying no, we are fine like we are. But he was more than happy about going further. LOL He was very cute doing the "Well, are you sure you are going to be OK?" and when I said I was feeling very good lately I could tell he was planning some stuff. LOL
But like you said, one of the things I had to realize this past year (which was physically the hardest for me) was that I have a friend who got married quick, they bought a house and everything looked the way it was supposed to. But they hated each other and fought all the time and did hateful, hateful things to each other. I looked at he and I and there was so much love there. Just not the sex or the official title. And most days I wouldn't have changed it for anything. I learned to look at what we had instead of holding it up to other's rulers and thinking we didn't have enough. I mean honestly, what more could a woman want from a man??
I also realized how much I thought men only wanted sex and no man would wait for me. And he turned that all on its head for me and I'm so grateful for that.
So thank you for your words cause I think you most really understand what is going on.
Anonymous male,
You post was very funny. :)
" You know why he’s got those pictures of you on his Ipod right? You know. You ain’t so pure you don’t get that. Been some lonely nights these past two years."
I guess I'll have to verify this one with him. ;)
" But I hope you won’t look at this guy and see some pervert. He isn't a pervert he is a saint for staying around when a lot of men wouldn't."
I know. When I first met him I was very concerned about his past. I was convinced of all the same things. He could never love, he would be a child molester himself, he would want his mom more than me, he has hate issues with women, and so forth. I spent a lot time struggling with this because he was never any of these things. He was good and kind. His mother is still in his life and he has put up healthy boundaries with her. All the things I expected him to do, he has never done. When he did the charity work he had to get a psychological examination cause some of it might require counseling others on occasion. And I know the woman who talked to him cause I worked with her for years and she said she couldn't believe how sincerely adjusted he is. He completely believes that we are who we make ourselves and we can't let our pasts control us or use it as an excuse to do bad things. He is the most responsible, giving, caring person I met so I finally had to realize that I was judging him by who I thought he should be, not who I was actually seeing.
" I’ll bet you my yearly salary. And if I loss, have him send me a check cause I’m going to need some charity."
If only I would have seen this before I asked him! LOL
" You know if you asked your question different you wouldn't have gotten this response from the ladies"
Yeah I realized that too. I was kind of in a bad mood when I asked it. I had made a sexy joke to him the night before and he ignored it. He had been doing that a lot lately when before he would make one back. I asked him about it last night and he said that he wants to respect me but he has been very sexy frustrated and it's hard to hear me make jokes about what we aren't doing so he doesn't encourage them. So I kind of realized I asked the question as a downer.
Janniepeg,
" I don't want to corrupt this saintly relationship with human desires."
That could be but I'm not sure. I realized I really looked into that part when I shouldn't have. I mean he did ask me for a sexual relationship a while ago. So I think I put more into that then he ever has.
" If you want him to focus more on you, tell him to cut back a little on charity work and see if there are more common activities you can enjoy. Shift your goals from helping each other, helping the underprivileged, into having fun and enjoying life."
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to come across like all he does is work, go to charities, and take care of me. We do a lot of stuff together as long as I'm well enough. Just typical movies, shopping, whatever. I was just pointing out him taking care of me cause it was like over and above the call of duty so to speak. But yeah, we do all the normal stuff too. Our days are pretty average and boring.
" I believe you are ready to explore chapter 2 with him, only if he's ready too."
Luckily, yes on both our parts!! :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSo after reading the different comments I had no idea what to believe anymore. So he was over last night and I feel bad but I kind of sideswiped him with asking if he felt like we meant anything to each other. He looked kind of shocked so I just said that I felt like we really cared about each other as more than friends but I was wondering if he just saw me as his friend. He seriously looked like I punched. He didn't know what to say and it was kind of awkward but he finally said "When I bought a new home a year ago, why would I move closer to you and pick the house you liked the best if I was just your friend?" I didn't even know what to say. I was finally able to ask him if he loves me and he said 'Of course!" completely shocked that I asked. He said "Don't you love me?" and I said of course. Since he brought up the house I kind of asked if all the stuff that he does for me is cause he loves me. And he seemed shocked again and said of course. So I just asked him a bunch of questions about things that didn't make sense to me at all if that was the case.
-I asked why the heck he turned me down when I asked him out. He laughed but he said that he didn't know me. He thought I was cute, but no offense, they are all cute (meaning all the girls that ask him out). And he talked about how ever since he has gotten some money women all of a sudden are really friendly. That before he had to ask girls out but now they were asking him out. It's why he doesn't go to bars anymore. He said when he first got money he wanted to buy nice things like watches but it's like every girl in the place saw it and was asking him out knowing he had deep pockets. When he was younger he thought it was great but he quickly realized that after a few weeks, or even days, the girls had their hands out for crazy amounts of money. He didn't even know their last names and they were asking him to co-sign loans or buy them designer purses. So it's a big turn off when a girl asks him out without hardly even knowing him.
-He said he was impressed that I stayed and never seemed to want money. Even on the rare occasion he offered I said no, that I would take care of it myself. And he was impressed by that. After a few months he felt a little more comfortable and wanted to see if I wanted more between the two of us, like a sexual relationship. And while he said he definitely felt rejected when I said I couldn't at that point, he was impressed that I was looking out for myself and not going to hurt myself.
-I told him that I thought he was so cautious of people cause of his childhood and he said no he was more open to women before the money issue. Even friends he had since he was a kid don't talk to him anymore cause they would always expect him to buy every round or give huge gifts all the time. And he was tired of being used for money so he has gotten really cautious of most people.
-He talked about how he didn't know in the first few months of knowing me that I was sick (cause I was doing pretty good then). And by the time he realized how sick I was, he was kind of already feeling a lot for me and didn't know what was appropriate to do. He joked that there is no manual that's like "Hey you found the girl of your dreams but she is sick! Have fun figuring out how that works." He said he has just been winging it from moment to moment cause he has no idea what to do. And maybe he has made some bad choices but he is figuring it out as he goes. He said he thought maybe something romantic was possible but then I got more and more sick. He said everything changed after the road trip we went on. He had business and I asked if I could go with him. After a day, I got so sick from travel that I was hospitalized. And he said he just will never forget that I was in so much pain in the hospital bed that I was talking but not making any sense. They hadn't even given me pain meds and I was babbling apparently from the pain. He said it was the worst thing he had seen and it really got to him. He wasn't sure if I was going to live and he just felt sick to his stomach. He said that he went to his car and actually cried. And even though he feels like a scumbag for thinking it, he just thought about getting the hell out of there. He didn't even know what he was doing. But he sat there for an hour and just decided that he was at a place where he loved me and knew he couldn't leave. So he decided to commit to stay with me through this.
-He said he knows he has been a little shut off but after seeing me in the hospital a couple times, he just is terrified of losing me. And he is trying to keep himself from completely breaking if anything happens.
-He also told me that he has been dealing with a lot of anger. Anger at God and life in general that we would met when I'm like this. He said he's felt like his aged 10 years watching me go through all this stuff and not being able to fix it.
-He said that he thought I understood that he wasn't going to touch me till I was ready. We had had a conversation after a friend of mine had a miscarriage and I was talking about how you would probably be in a state of not even wanting to be touched out of fear of getting pregnant again. He said that because of illness or something like that, he would never touch me till I said I was ready cause he wouldn't want to hurt me. The conversation at the time was a little muddier than that but I think we were both embarrassed it was never clarified.
Obviously I can't sum it up all here but we talked for about 3 hours about what that meant for us. Like everything from possibly being more intimate (he is definitely on board especially since I have been doing pretty well the past few months) to whether I want to move in with him (which he would like).
I told him we should probably wait till we were not as tired and emotional to discuss all the stuff and he completely agreed. He ended up staying the night and we slept together ( I just mean sleep, not sex). In the morning he actually called the guy he was meeting for breakfast and moved it to lunch so we could be together more. Which is huge for him. He is very responsible in his business.
He left and then text me 15 minutes later "I know you have a bad memory so just in case you forgot....I do love you." :) :) :) :)
Last night I was kind of giddy but this morning it feels completely surreal. 2 years is a long time to wait. I feel like I'm going to wake up from a dream or something. But I'm so glad we had the talk cause I had absolutely no idea he was feeling that way. I totally forgot about the toll illness has on those around you too. And he always seems so competent that I forget he has fears too.
I just wanted to thank everyone for encouraging me to talk to him. I kind of realized last night that if I was at a point of asking other people what they thought, it was probably time to talk to him about this. And I just can't even believe how it worked out. I'm just so happy and I could tell he was relieved that we aren't stuck in that place anymore.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (10 July 2010):
It's possible the first time he's figuring if you had sexual needs and then you told him you weren't ready, he's breathing a sigh of relief. Then you are slowly getting better and is expressing your needs will be coming back and now he's like uh oh, I don't know if I am ready for that and I don't want to corrupt this saintly relationship with human desires. He's being extra generous to you in the hopes that you can't find another guy as nice as him and you will be stick by him. In other words he's making up for that lack of sexual department. If you want him to focus more on you, tell him to cut back a little on charity work and see if there are more common activities you can enjoy. Shift your goals from helping each other, helping the underprivileged, into having fun and enjoying life. I believe you are ready to explore chapter 2 with him, only if he's ready too.
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male
reader, Myau  +, writes (10 July 2010):
 Look this is actually quite simple. Its just that you want it to be more so you are trying to make it more by over analysing it.
He isn't going to come around, don't know why, neither does he to be honest. Attraction is one of those odd things in life that makes no real sense. We like who we like.
I do tend to put workmates in the friends category though.
My advice is: stop waisting your time and meet someone new, life isn't really all that long you know, stop waisting it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): I am busting up!! There is some generic advice going down in here!! Is everyone cutting and pasting their comments from “My boyfriend never calls me? What do I do?”
Let me recap to make sure I got this right:
What I just read you said you guys are friends, he asked for more and you said not right now, he stuck around, tells you that he thinks your beautiful, buys you a damn dog cause you are alone (player move, I’m taking that one), flies you out of some kind of craziness, gives my annual paycheck to a charity you love (makes me sick that anyone has that kind of money), does charity work to impress you (something I would never do for a woman), spends more hours a day with you then he does sleeping, told you he loved you, calls you his girlfriend, calls you his angel and the one that I just can’t get over, sleeps by you in the hospital. Did I get all that right or did I forget something?
Ok let’s think about this:
1) A guy is going to let you heal. Not try to get it on with you in the meantime. What kind of woman wants a man that doesn’t do that? This is my biggest issue here that only a couple people seem to get. This chick is ill!!! Sick enough to go to a hospital and you all think he needs to be grabbing her goods cause of the time frame? That’s messed up guys! Girl said she can’t even get out of bed and everyone’s giving her advice like shes the girl who is hanging out with party guys.
2) Not only are you sick, you are a girl who wanted to be a nun who wanted to do charity work in a third world country and now you are sick!! I have not met the guy who would try and sex that up! I would be afraid my piece would fall off! You aint this guys mom like someone said, you’re the freaking Madonna, laying in bed sick. When he calls you his angel he probably means it literally. You alone make men think twice before asking you. You with a sickness….he better be waiting till you heal of he is going to hell!
3) No guy is going to spend 8 or even 4 hours a day with some girl, even the Madonna, and risk his chance with other women.
4) Guys hate hospitals. If he is staying overnight with you, you are more than a friend. No guy is spending the night in a hospital chair for a friend.
5) No guy is given up 20 large to a charity unless he is trying to impress someone. If it’s your charity, I wonder who he is trying to impress? Probably the sick angel laying in bed.
6) Despite what some women think, men can actually hold themselves back sexual for 2 years. We don’t for the girls who will sleep with us. But if you love a girl, you can actually do it. I know it sounds impossible but it does happen. But it doesn’t seem like he was even going to! He wanted some and you said no. Dude has some rocks for asking. And some heart for staying.
7) Player has gold diggers jumping on him (meaning hot chicks) and he stays at home with you.
8) Brother fixed a problem for you. When he flew you home, he was fixing a problem. We do that for girls we love.
9) No guy is going to have the women in his family making stuff for a woman he just thinks is swell! He has his family working on the assembly line to pump out goods for you. I haven’t met a girl yet I want to ask my mom to make one of her scarves for.
10) You know why he’s got those pictures of you on his Ipod right? You know. You ain’t so pure you don’t get that. Been some lonely nights these past two years. Probably got his little Imix going to rotating pictures of you. (I just said this last one cause I wanted 10)
I love that this guys has been turned into a pervert because of his past. Some girls online don’t even know him and he has everything from mommy issues to I don't know what. Never met the guy once! They just know it though. They read in a book somewhere that men like him have mommy issues. It said only 80% do but they just know for sure he is that 80%. Apparenlty he also has intimacy issues. Dude sounds more intimate than all the guys I know. Better watch out next time he buys you a gift. He is probably do it from some deep seeded desire to control you or something.
Honey it’s easy for people to judge your relationship. But you are the one who has to live it. I don’t care if you talk to him or not. That’s on you. But I hope you won’t look at this guy and see some pervert. He isn't a pervert he is a saint for staying around when a lot of men wouldn't. This guy loves you. I’ll bet you my yearly salary. And if I loss, have him send me a check cause I’m going to need some charity.
Some women only know bad men. So all men are bad in their opinion. They always look for bad in them. It sounds like you can actually pick winners from your past. If you got all these guys putting years into you, you are doing something right. Even when you are sick you got some rich dude buying huts in Haiti to make you smile. So don’t 2nd guess yourself.
You hit the nail on the head talking about people answering 100 questions. To them you are just question number 93 for the day. so don't get so upset about that. But in my opinion, a hurt boy and a sick girl sounds about right for each other. I bet you get each other just fine.
Peace and love to you both.
P.s.-
I know you are trying to defend him but I wouldn’t spend anymore time doing that! You will probably say next that he bought you an island to live on till you get better and all these girls will tell you he is going to lock you up on it. Keep that between you and him.
P.p.s--
You know if you asked your question different you wouldn't have gotten this response from the ladies. If you would have listed all the stuff he did for you and asked if they thought those were signs of love and left it at that, they would have been thinking you were with that vampire from Twilight! But you asked if people thought he kept you in the friend zone and so everyone already was expecting to see proof he was.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (10 July 2010):
Two years.. if a guy loves you that's too long to wait.. most men would be afraid to loose you.
I don't see this ending in the way that you hope.. sorry.
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female
reader, janniepeg +, writes (10 July 2010):
You are working on a theory but this theory does not apply to him. He can't see anything beyond friendship with women because he maybe too damaged to love. Mothers are our first relationship to a woman figure and his trust had been broken. He does not have the ability to want a woman sexually because that part of him is shut down for life possibly. No man with a healthy sex drive would go celibate for 2 years for the sake of preserving a special friendship. If for 2 years he's so devoted to you and not dating anyone else, he won't ever. He's treating you like a mother he never had as a child. You are in a mutually beneficial relationship and you give him a space for his nurturing side. I think he already hinted to you if sex is something you want then you would be disappointed. He knows you are sexually frustrated. He didn't particularly put you in the friend zone because any other zone is off limits to him. I really feel you haven't put yourself out there and given other guys a chance because you are clinging onto the sense of security he gives you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWhoops sorry missed this!
Danielepew,
"I'm good friends with Ask Oldersister and often find her posts very, very good. "
I agree. I find her advice very good. I just have never agreed with her on her opinion of slow moving men.
"Sometimes we don't do the hard stuff because it hurts. Maybe you're postponing the decision to find out? "
I think my postponing of the decision is because we are such good friends. If I were honest with you, OK I'll be totally honest, I know he loves me. He has said it before. And I don't mean "love" like a friend. That's why I am so confused on why he hasn't tried for anything. He says stuff about being afraid of losing me and thinking that he can't keep me if we are together. And he even sort of calls me his girlfriend. But it just isn't a traditional relationship. I guess by that I mean we have everything except sex. I know he thinks I'm too sick for it and I probably am but I wonder if maybe it's just an excuse. I go back and forth thinking no guy is probably going to try and sleep with a sick woman but I guess I worry that there is more to it. I mean he spends every waking moment with me and takes care of me so I guess sex is kind of crazy to ask for from a man when you can hardly get out of bed some days. But I don't know.
"I don't think you've got anything to lose. If he loves you the way he claims he loves you (as a friend, of course), he won't mind your telling him that you love him. Or, he shouldn't. You, on the other hand, don't deserve to live the way you're living. "
You are right. I know that he won't just pick up and leave if I bring it up. I just don't know how to say "OK we clearly love each other. So what's up?"
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionJanniepeg,
"Stop giving yourself a headache and just conclude that maybe he doesn't have a penis."
What? I'm not sure what that really means.
Odds,
" It is possible that he does not find you physically attractive enough to ask out."
Well I guess anything is possible but I really don't think so. He has said more than enough times how beautiful I am and he definitely gives me the "guy eyeing" thing when he looks at me. And has pictures of me on his Ipod. I guess that could be a friend thing though.
" if there are hotter girls in his social circle, his eye will be on them"
Well I'm sure there are prettier girls then me in the world but it isn't like a typically social circle things where we hang out all the time in groups of large people. He has a great deal of money and avoids women who run up on him because he is attractive and has had many women ask him out if a week or two when they find out he has money. So his social circle is just his guy friends and me. And he spends all his day, outside of work, with me.
" He may perceive you as "wife and mother" material, but only be looking for a quick lay. Some guys are reluctant to make a move on "wife and mother" types in that situation."
I have wondered this too. He isn't the guy who is into quick lays cause he had a very bad past with his upbringing and some bad experiences with women. Otherwise, I would wonder that too. After knowing each other for a while he did ask me if I would be interested in a sexual relationship and I said if he wanted to we could but I might get hurt. He backed up off the sexual thing and ever since then has spent a lot of time trying to get to know me and I guess impress me but I'm not sure. He does stuff like work for charities now which he never did before (because I work for charities). And he gave a charity $20,000 when he heard I liked it. And he has made comments about thinking someone like me would interesting in dating someone like him but he doesn't think I would ever marry a man like him. So I have wondered about the wife thing. But who knows I guess.
" If you have asked him out and been turned down, there is basically zero chance that this will develop into a relationship unless you are willing to wait for him to be ready to settle down - even then, the odds are pretty low. You would be better off finding a new man to try and date."
Well thank you for your advice. I will think it over.
As far as a new man, I'm not much into man jumping. So if it doesn't work out with him I'll probably just choose to be single for awhile.
Iroh,
" Just ignore people who doesn't see you as a person"
Well I wouldn't say he doesn't see me as a person. He is very attentive to all my needs. I just might be a friend is all.
Celtic tiger,
" This honestly could be me writing this. I know exactly how you feel"
I'm so sorry to hear that. I really hope it works out for you cause yes it can be very frustrating.
Cerebrus,
" Or talk to him about all this, you don't have to ask him out, just have a hypothetical discussion."
We did have sort of a hypothetical discussion once. Actually many, many. We talk all the time about "If we were together..." kind of thing. He asks a lot of questions about what I want for the future and what I think I might be doing in the future. I was planning on doing humanitarian work in a country like Cambodia but because of my sickness I have had to put that on hold. He does not know if I am going to do that again after I get well so he has tiptoed around wondering if I will stay here in the US or leave.
" He does a hell of a lot for you and perhaps think you have friendzoned him."
Oh man I hope not!! But sometimes I wonder. When I say "You are such a good friend" he clinches up like it hurts him. But I don't know what else to call him!!
" All your hints and innuendos are getting you nowhere and have probably just made him think this is how you are with everyone."
Oh man, you are making me feel awful! I don't mean that bad. I just mean what you are saying is some of the stuff he has said. It's exactly what he says sometimes. He has said he thinks I treat everyone with this kind of love. Man oh man!!!
" Lay your cards on the table and find out for sure where you stand."
I will really think about this. I am terrified of doing it but like you said, my innuendos are getting me nowhere. Thank you for your time.
Ask oldersister,
" Do you want marriage and do you want kids?"
Well no. I can't say that has always been my hope and dream in life. Especially since I wanted to be a nun. I would like to be with this man but I don't sit around hoping to get married.
"Do you want a man who loves you passionately? Do you want friends who give you feel good advice, which encourages you to hang on to this guy for dear life?"
I'm sorry you feel I just want feel good advice. I don't mind hearing your opinion. I just said this to you because you give so much advice and I know a lot of people probably take it to heart because you give so much. So I would hope you can give it with love, not just a quick remark and a "take care".
" I'm not the one causing you that pain- the hopes and expectations you are feeding are though. Someone has to jolt you out of that for a second so you can gain perspective."
Again, I will take your opinion but I think you might be reading into me, what you see in yourself. I have never been a hopeless romantic dreamer. I know that you have a past of unstable relationships that have been rushed into according to your profile. So I know that you are looking at me through that. I also know that you advice most women who don't have a guy ask them out in a quick time to drop the guy because he doesn't like them. I have seen that in your answer to other people's questions in the past. While I have agreed with you on so many things, this has always been the one thing I have disagreed with you on. I have not found that to be true at all in my own life or in other women's lives. Some men are slow movers. Let's not even talk about my friend. I have had repeated men ask me out after being my friend for some time. I found out later that they took so long because they thought I would say no. And have had many male friends tell me that I don't come off as the woman you can run into something with. That they know that they have to have all their ducks in a row before they approach me. So I'm not trying to be some dreamy little girl. I am working off past experience. Whether this is the case with him, I don't know. I just know it's happened many times in my past where men waited till they felt I was very much in love with them before they asked. So that's why I question now.
The one guy who ran into something with me was unstable and insane. I'm sure you know the feeling from what your profile says. So why I understand you believe the men rush into relationships. But in my experience, the ones that take their time are the ones that are stable and loving.
But it's your opinion and you have the right to it.
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reader, Danielepew  +, writes (10 July 2010):
 Disclaimer: I'm good friends with Ask Oldersister and often find her posts very, very good.
I think Oldersister has told you the bare truth. Yes, there are some people we like as friends. It seems to me he wants you for friendship only.
When you don't have all the information, you need a "theory" on why things are the way they are. So I understand the sense you're trying to make out of this. But, when one has a theory, one needs facts to prove it or disprove it. That's what you need.
I know this hurts. I would suggest you do as someone else suggested: tell the man you love him and see what happens. Sometimes we don't do the hard stuff because it hurts. Maybe you're postponing the decision to find out?
I don't think you've got anything to lose. If he loves you the way he claims he loves you (as a friend, of course), he won't mind your telling him that you love him. Or, he shouldn't. You, on the other hand, don't deserve to live the way you're living.
Good luck.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): Remove the final two paragraphs of your post and email it to him. Simple as that.
Or talk to him about all this, you don't have to ask him out, just have a hypothetical discussion.
He does a hell of a lot for you and perhaps think you have friendzoned him. Talk to him, you don't have to confess undying love or make any demands, just a casual discussion but please, stop beating around the bush. All your hints and innuendos are getting you nowhere and have probably just made him think this is how you are with everyone.
Lay your cards on the table and find out for sure where you stand.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 July 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAsk oldersister, May I just say something to you? I know that my question was 1 of 100 questions you will answer today. And I know you will answer many more tomorrow. But this is my life. He is not just my friend but this is the only man I have ever loved. He is a kind gentle man who has spent the past 2 years taking care of me in every way humanly possible when my own family wouldn't. He has spent anything from 4 hours to 8 hours a day, every single day talking to me. And has stayed up till 4 in the morning when he had to get up 2 hours later because he has wanted to make sure I am OK. And he makes sure to text me every single break he has to talk. He is gentle, loving, caring, and the best man I have ever known. He was molested by his mother, beaten by his father, left home at 13 to take care of himself so he wouldn't have to be under that and to this day avoids most people because they use him for money. He is cautious of almost everyone but has let me in his life. He calls me his angel and literally all we have in the world is each other. I may be in the friend zone with this man but there is love between us. It may be the love of friends but it's love. I wanted you to understand that you crushed me with the way you told me he didn't want me. No one in my life has treated me with as much love and concern as him and I swear that if I wanted him to sit in a chair by my bed every night cause I was afraid he would. I know that cause when I go to the hospital he is the one who sleeps in the chair next to my bed. The reason I'm telling you this is because I hope the next piece of advice you give will be giving with a little more love and understanding that the person asking it is in a vulnerable enough position to be very hurt by how you say it. You give much advice on this site. And I hope I'm the only one that was this hurt by your words when you summed up a 2 year relationship of two people taking care of each other by calling it a "dead beat in the head romance". He may not love me like a girlfriend but it is clear to anyone who sees how he treats me that he loves me more than his own life. I'll talk your opinion about him not wanting me. But I hope next time, you can consider the pain the person might be in who is asking the question.
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reader, celtic_tiger +, writes (10 July 2010):
 This honestly could be me writing this. I know exactly how you feel.
"I'm seriously beyond desperate at this point because nothing is making sense anymore!"
Its like no feeling you can put your finger on, its oppressive, stressful, depressing, frustrating, painful, and scary.
It really really hurts to be put in the friend zone. And I dont have the answers. I really wish I did :(
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reader, Iroh  +, writes (10 July 2010):
Yes we do. But some are really stupid to understand any person can be a friend for them. They don't understand that girls aren't just objects which they can date than break up when bored. Some of us aren't like that. So don't worry about that. Just ignore people who doesn't see you as a person.
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reader, Odds +, writes (10 July 2010):
 Guys do put girls in the friend zone. This is largely based on physical attractiveness and on perceived place on the wife/one-night-stand continuum.It is possible that he does not find you physically attractive enough to ask out. This is independent of how attractive you actually are - if there are hotter girls in his social circle, his eye will be on them. I can't see you, obviously, so you have to judge this one for yourself.The other possibility is your conservative upbringing. He may perceive you as "wife and mother" material, but only be looking for a quick lay. Some guys are reluctant to make a move on "wife and mother" types in that situation.If you have asked him out and been turned down, there is basically zero chance that this will develop into a relationship unless you are willing to wait for him to be ready to settle down - even then, the odds are pretty low. You would be better off finding a new man to try and date.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (10 July 2010):
Two years and nothing happened. All you need to know is that he's not available in the physical department. Stop giving yourself a headache and just conclude that maybe he doesn't have a penis. He already told you he couldn't give you the happiness you deserve. Go get it from someone who wants it as much as you do, but also as nice as him.
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