A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Girls are weird. Whether u all admit it or not. Most my school and teen years I used to see guys being docks and girls getting hurt and complaining. I always wondered why they didn't go out with nice guys like me who would not hurt them. Few years later I still didn't have much luck, and girls use to date me and I seemed to be making the effort. Fast forward to this year, I had issues at home and in life which led to be being angry, and selfish and just overall dick to people simply because I didn't care what people think because I had my own problems to deal with. I've never been hit on by so many girls. Some of the same girls I was nice who used to txt me shit now can't get enough because I seem like I'm uninterested. ESo i tested it, what if I acted like i didnt care about any girl, funny thing it works. Girls love being treated like dirt until they start dating or in relationship and than they suddenly expect it to change? It's weird, in other words I'm forced into being a knob basically. I so how can girls complain when men act like that. It's beyond me. Let the debate begin... Reply to this Question
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (16 November 2012): My friend, you're spot on. Truth be told, you're right.Women are the gatekeepers, to both relationships and sex. In Western societies, it has become the norm for men to approach women; as such, guys get rejected far more often then women. For some it's devastating, to some it's resenting, to others it's indifferent. Regardless, the story typically goes: boy asks girl, girl says yes or no. As such, guys at an early age begin to realize where they are in the pecking order - more attractive boys get gushed over by girls and receive more 'yes' answers than average or ugly boys. Now, with the top guys (say 20%) getting the attention, it's no wonder they act like dicks - the flow of women is never ending, so let the good times roll! If you're not considerate, or loyal or even nice, another woman will take the place of the one who felt 'hurt' by that 'jerk'. Why? Because thanks to the feminization of Western society over the last 25 years, 80% of women lust after the top 20% of men. From an early age, women are programmed to want 'the best' - think of all the Disney movies, books, and other fictitious media that drive home the point that EVERY woman deserves a great looking prince, who has it all, the total package (entitlement anyone?). The bottom 80% of guys are left on the sidelines (in the past, one would form relations with someone who is similar to them in terms of looks, such as a 7/10 dating a 7/10). But nowadays, women have been 'empowered' to hold out for nothing less than the best, regardless of where they fall on the social order of things (save for maybe the bottom percentage of women with perhaps mental and physical defects who are likely still discriminated against). So what happens? Tons of women all fall for 'alpha males' (i.e. top 20%), who tend to use them, in some cases abuse them, just for sex and fun - but it's all good and part of the their quest for love. Then, after a few years of either a) riding the alpha-male cock carousal and then having a revelation that they are 'better-than-this', b) looks begin to fade (i.e. late 20s), or c) are now single-mothers with an alpha-male's child, they decide they want a 'nice and decent' guy, who 'doesn't play mind games' and is 'mature'. Enter the Beta-male (i.e. the other 80% of men). Also known as 'nice guys'. When either A, B or C (sometimes all 3) occurs, the average-joe gets a shot. Which is why you'll hear women say stuff like "My husband [or present committed boyfriend] is a nice guy. I dated jerks for years, but I finally found a truly genuine, loving man, so nice guys don't finish last!". The ugly truth? She settled for less. While nice guys don't finish last, they're still a late second, which isn't much better. That is why a lot of men are starting to 'walk off the field' so to speak with regards to dating, relationships and love - it's a growing movement called MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way). Google it, check out the main forum. Instead of waiting for a majority of women to wake up from their false-reality and notice them, guys are just living life for themselves - why keep trying and trying to impress the opposite sex when you're not what they're looking for...at the moment. A whole world of opportunities and experiences become apparent when you're no longer trying to 'figure out the game'. Cheers
A
female
reader, peteloevely +, writes (16 November 2012):
 i will never hurt them...! Life is not that black and white, you never think you are going to be a jerk or a bitch to someone you like until you are, and then you realise that there are more sides to you than you do care to admit.Unfortunately we sometimes find ourselves in situations where we treat people in ways we wouldn’t let others treat us... it is about perspective, where you see a jerk girls see a guy that just needs some loving, and maybe the right girl with the right attitude could change his hard core exterior.girls never get with a guy think oh my good! i hope he treats me like a chewing gum stuck to his shoe, they have good intentions, but pretty soon the learn about life, and the whole *bad boy* imaginary being nothing but a façade! and how i is not worth their time, and how they will never change anyone with a lot of love and understanding, people don’t do things to hurt you, they do it because they think is right for themselves, so don’t take it personally.everyone needs experience that is how women become women, mature and wise, because we all have had a share of good and bad men... now we understand the difference between the two, i wouldn’t know how much i love a sunny day if it had never rained around here...life + experience = wisdomnow the same thing works for you, this will help you understand what type of women to go for, soon you will understand that some women do indeed enjoy the trill of dating horrible men and so they will spend their lives in and out of relationship with horrible men, some just make a one time off mistake.You like a girl that do not like you? She is not worth your time mate... move on, don’t waste your time wondering why is she with that jerk! if she is with him she probably belongs with him, and if she doesn’t eventually she will wise up and run miles from that ''jerk''.don’t beat yourself over it or sit at home hating all women over it!!! Don’t become bitter and angry.***********to the person who wrote have you ever heard a guy say she is too nice!! yes of course guys say that, if a woman is understanding likes the things he likes and gets alone with his mate she is normally just one of the guys, and of course a lot of us girls have sat around watching the guy of their dreams date manipulating women who use their looks to get what they want! Whiles she is just one of the guys, What do people think that all women are born Nicole Kidman? And we have all men at our feet?...
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2012): Well of course that doesn't apply to ALL girls, but yes some do.
I'm just gonna throw a "Right off the top of my head" opinion at this one!
I think its possible that for those girls who 'like' to be treated like dirt, its more of an expectation thing of guys for them. If a girl expects to be treated like dirt by a guy, then she's going to opt for a guy who treats her that way. If she gets with a guy she expects to treat her like an angel but then he treats her like dirt, she's going to have one hell of a disappointment to get over isn't she.
This also could be to do with their up bringing. If they've been around a male (a father) who has treated their mother and/them like dirt, they've been brought up to see that as the normal behaviour in relationships, so they are going to opt for as much of a 'Normal' life to what they are used to as possible.
Just a couple of opinions there actually lol.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2012): SOME girls are intrigued by bad boys. SOME girls will put up with being treated like dirt because any attention from a guy is better than none.MOST girls' and guys' behavior as teens and young adults are direct result of influences experienced at home.
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A
male
reader, LazyGuy  +, writes (15 November 2012):
 If you watch Jerry Springer you might get the idea that all of America is full of rednecks.
It is not. There are hillbillies to.
Lousy jokes aside, it is very easy to get a distorted view of reality. 50% of marriages end in divorce. OH MY GOD! The end of civilization!
Doesn't it however also mean that 50% of marriages end in dead? And since deadrow isn't overflowing I presume natural dead AKA happily ever after?
But you don't hear about happy couples because it would make for very boring TV. All the normal girls who just date normal guys are invisible to the media, they are not news worthy.
the trick is to look beyond the "popular" (read noisy) crowd and see real people living real lives.
But a terrible secret about nice guys is often that they think their "nice guy" routine should be getting them a small harem with big tits. Sorry, that is now what nice guys do. Nice guys don't worry about girls, they care for ONE girl.
And you don't find her by being angry at what some other women do or don't do.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2012): Have you ever heard a girl say, "he's too nice"?
Probably.
Have you ever heard a guy say, "she's too nice"?
Probably not.
Case closed.
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A
female
reader, shrodingerscat  +, writes (15 November 2012):
 I've posted this several times before, but here's an article my friend Lady_Air wrote:I hear over and over again how hard done by "nice guys" are. How women always go for assholes. How women won't give men who treat them decently the time of day. How the only way to get a woman is to abuse her, and the only way to keep a woman is to keep abusing her. How women don't appreciate honesty, loyalty, consideration, respect, etc.These complaints are coming from the "nice guys," of course.The first thing I'd like to point out is the biases in perception occurring here: confirmation bias, for example, where people choose information that supports their belief. Every time a "nice guy" hears about a woman with a man who treats her poorly it "proves" their point. All the women who are NOT with a man who treats them badly don't register. Plus, people don't complain about being treated well, so you don't hear about it. There are all kinds of information selection and perception biases going on that most people aren't even aware of. (Everyone has them, by the way; look up "full moon fallacy" for example.) Any time you hear of a behavioural stereotype based on something like gender or race, you're probably dealing with cognitive errors.Secondly, in my own experience, these claims aren't being made by happy men in loving relationships-- they're being made by unhappy men in bad relationships or no relationships. There's an emotional motivation to find fault with the other. A man sees a woman choosing someone else-- someone who in the unselected male's opinion is not a "nice guy"-- and feels rejection and resentment. It's human nature to want to avoid feeling unwanted; it's scapegoating to claim that the selection was based on some inherent fault or flaw on the part of the selector.There's also a lot of gender tension because the perception is that women control the sex-- it's up to the woman to say 'yes' or 'no' because it's assumed the man's default answer is always 'yes.' That's not true, of course; not every man has pre-agreed to have sex with anyone who wants to. But it is a prevalent gender stereotype, and it's inevitable that those who are perceived to be in control will be blamed for the existing conditions. If a man isn't getting any, it's because a woman won't 'give' it to him. There's a lot of anger and resentment on the part of men as a result; from a woman's perspective, it's terrifying. I don't think all the "nice guys" out there really get that: the whole issue of entitlement, anger, and misogyny that women have to deal with on a regular basis. I've had more "nice guys" react with hostility and emotional violence because I wouldn't give them what they thought I 'owed' them (generally because they said something 'nice' to me and I didn't immediately flop onto my back and spread for them) than guys who started out nasty right off the bat. Even a polite "no thank you" has generated, on more than one occasion, a "fuck you, bitch" response. From "nice guys."I'm sure there are a lot of nice guys out there saying, "well. I would never respond that way," but what they're missing is that when they claim women want to be treated poorly because a woman doesn't feel obligated to give it up just because someone is being "nice" that's exactly what they're saying: fuck you, bitch.And then there's the whole definition of "nice." Nice has got to be the worst word in the world for actually describing anything. Does nice mean polite? Does it mean chivalrous? Does it mean just not beating and raping someone? All these "nice guys" who are complaining-- do they even know what they mean by "nice?" Or is it just an easy default? A guy who insists on opening the door and pulling out my chair for me may think he's being "nice," but I don't see it that way if he also dismisses my intellect and my opinion, which is what a lot of so-called "chivalry" can amount to. Let me open my own damn door and treat me like an intellectual equal and I'll personally consider that a hell of a lot closer to my definition of "nice."The problems are endless.But it's scary. It's frightening to live in an environment where others feel entitled and "owed." It's frightening to hear all these "nice guys" talk with resentment and contempt about how a woman only wants to be treated badly. It's frightening to answer someone politely and have them respond with anger or petulance because "no" is not a permissible answer. It's especially frightening to be on a site like Fetlife, where one's sexuality is front and centre, and all the vulnerability that goes with it, with that environment of hostility. It's frightening to live in a blame-the-victim culture when one IS the victim. And sorry, nice guys, but when a woman is abused SHE is the victim, not you.Personally, I think as soon as a "nice guy" starts complaining that women won't give him what he wants because he treats them like real human beings, he has fundamentally contradicted himself; when he states, out of resentment and frustration, that all women want to be treated badly, he stops being a "nice guy" and starts being a misogynist.***********************I married the first good man I met. So there goes your pet theory.
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A
female
reader, mystiquek +, writes (15 November 2012):
 I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a myth that girls/women like to be treated like dirt and like bad boys. We might be interested but the excitement wears off VERY quickly. I'd say 95% of us like to be treated with dignity and respect. I didn't like jerks when I was younger and I don't like them now. I learned the hard way when I was 18. I was dating a guy who was drop dead gorgeous. He had it all..looks, nice job, money, great car. He knew it too. He treated girls like crap. I went out with him for about 2 weeks. Oh yeah, he was cute..but he had no personality. I DROPPED HIM. Give me a guy with a sense of humor and who knows how to treat a lady any day over a bad boy/jerk.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2012): Sorry but guys who act like nobs get dumped end of debate
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (15 November 2012): General speaking, SOME girls are like that, especially younger ones who enjoy the thrill, the chase, the appeal of a dangerous, "cool" guy. Nice guys might appear or are assumed to be boring. Younger girls tend to want to feel protected by some masculine figure and erroneously believe that nice guys can't offer that. However, how are you certain that your change in behavior was a direct cause for girls taking an interest in you? Something could have happened to the girls and their lives, you could've done something unconsciously to attract them...the possibilities are out there. Are these girls diverse or do they all have the same personality? You shouldn't assume all girls don't care for good guys. That's like saying guys only care about sex, want feminine, obedient girlfriends, etc. Personally, I don't care for aggressive, conceited, selfish guys or anyone who tries to be a big shot. If a guy treated me with disrespect, I'd dump him on the spot.
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A
female
reader, k_c100 +, writes (15 November 2012):
 Sorry to tell you this but you are just a young, naieve young boy who has no idea about the world of love and dating.
I am 25, and HATE guys that a) play games, b) treat girls like crap and c) use the old 'treat them mean keep them keen' idea. I have dated guys like this in the past, and ALWAYS broke it off with them because I find their unavailability boring and dull. I want to date a guy who is interested in me, and shows me that he's interested - I dont want to be messed around, I simply dont have time to waste on a guy who will mess me around, I have better things to do than play games.
I think you are just dating and surrounded by equally silly, immature little girls who think bad boys are cool. As these girls grow up they will grow out of the desire to date bad boys, and will want the nice guys.
Dont act like a knob if you are not a knob in real life, always be true to yourself and dont change just to make someone like you. Honesty always wins in the end, and the girls will grow up oneday and realise that the knobs are boring and hard work, and will want the nice, down to earth genuine guys.
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