A
male
age
36-40,
*ey
writes:I recently broke up with my girlfriend when she didn't call me for 2wks and didn't come see me on Thanksgiving when she came home from school. I also told her of my suspicions that she may have a mild bi-polar disorder called hypomania. I brought it up on the phone after we broke up and she flipped out. So, then I sent her a letter with relevant info on the disorder after she got it she called me and cussed me out. I only brought it up because she has like 95-100% of the symptoms, but refuses to see it. She basically told me that she thought I was psycho, didn't give a damn what I thought and that she didn't want to talk to me again. In light of her explosive reaction I've decided not to bring it up to her ever again. I was resigned to never speak to her again and just go about the rest of my life, but then a few weeks later she started calling me more frequently. She said she wanted to hang out for X-Mas, but didn't come by, not like I was expecting her to. I think she's called me everyday this week with absolutely no hint of her earlier anger. She's even asked me "Are we still going to get married". Something we would joke about when we were together. I'm supposed to be moving to California soon and she says she wants to hang out before I go. She even went so far as to say she'd visit me frequently when she moves there and stays with her brother after school. I don't know what to make of that.Even though she said she didn't want to talk to me she still calls me being friendly...Is she trying to be my friend or what?
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male
reader, Rey +, writes (5 June 2008):
Rey is verified as being by the original poster of the question I just re-read the message from the anonymous female and she describes exactly what I'm still going through with my ex. For example recently she said that she believes we're going to get married but in between now and then she is going to "Be 23 and have fun" (which by her tone implied she was going to excessively drink and have sex with whoever she pleased) Which is completely ridiculous, even oxymoronic. What makes you think I'd want to marry you with that sort of mentality or behavior? Secondly, After yelling and being extremely non-empathetic to my feelings she asks me if I would like to elope with her! Seriously! I kept talking to her to try and see how far she would go with this and I'm 100% confident that if I was so prone she would definitely do it. (But only if I paid.)Recently, I've come to realize that she may have a Narcissistic personality disorder caused by her mother and family as a result of her upbringing. NPD has much in common with Hypomania. It's extraordinarily saddening for me because I see her Personality problems so clearly, but her oblivious and unsympathetic mother and drug abusing friends provide a buffer between my hurtful truth and she'd rather accept that she's perfect (As many with NPD do) that believe that anything is wrong with her. It's horrible because the more I talk to her the more clearly I see how far gone she is. It's like I am a lone soldier fighting the entire Army by myself. It hurts because deep down I know that she is never going to get the help she needs to manage this disorder because her family status (Famous actor/comedian brothers) and her over indulgent and unempathetic mother only serve to worsen the problem. I wish there was more I could do, but I've exhausted my options...
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2008):
Hi,
I can really empathise with your situation, your desire to stay and help your friend/ partner, and how confusing her behaviour must appear to you . Believe me it sounds all too familiar. have had exactly these conversations over the years with my parner over many years everythime they have another hypomanic episode. He is diagnosed with Bipolar 2 Disorder with rapid, sometimes ultra rapid cycling, dysphoric hypomania. ( It would be worth familiarising yourself with these if you intend to understand her or stick around to help her, but it is going to a hard ride, and can take years before some individuals gain insight if at all. Apparently about 50% of people have no insight into the hypomania or manic phases of this cyclical illness, though they rarely doubt or hide their depressions, which follow or precede the hypomnia. Most always admit this, and it is orobably the only time she is likey to seek help during the depression phase. Because of this, the hypomania is not always pickedup by doctors unless thay are astute and ask the right questions. It is important to get the right diagnosis, as clinical unipolar depression requires quite different treatment than bipolar Disorder which coprises both depressive and hypomanic phases in the form of oscillating mood swings, sometimes with or without a free interval of wellness in between. Those with rapid cycling may not have well periods in between, but just swing from one phase to the other, high or low. The highs can be euphoric in type or dysphoric.
I could recognise straight away all that you have desribed about her behaviour and her responses to your concern, your offering of a diagnosis or the suggestioj of it, her reluctance to consider it is her problem rather than yours, her denial ( which is unlikely to be deliberate - she probably has absolutely no insight. This is very common, and is not an attempt to avoid the problem. It in itself is a symptom, especially when in the middle of an episode, it is virtually imposiible for her to see it , or respond appropriately- That takes years of treatment and a good level of awareness and some degree of stability and knowledge about the condition), and her rejections then returns oblivious to her past comments, just picking up where you left off as if nothing unpleasant had passed between you. I have been exactky where you are too many times to recall, and it is incredibly painful. She sounds as if she has Bipolar Disorder without any doubt. It is not a personality disorder , but abiochemical problem with dopamine regulation,although the illness does impact on the personality, in so much as it appears to completely or sometimes subtlely change the personailty during episodes of hypomania, mania, or mixed states.
If you are intending to have a relationship you will need to be absolutely committed to supporting her and getting informed, and having your own support network. YOu may be banging your head against a brick wall until she either has treatment or develops insight. She really needs both. It would be worth looking at the information or the Bipolar Organisation, and Julie fast's website, and families for depression, the depression alliance. There is an excellent book by S.Russell'S, I think called living well with bipolar disorder, I Think ( a wellness perspective), and ofcourse Kay Redfield Jameson's book "an unquiet mind". Another very good book is by Francis Mondimore- Bopolar Dosorder- A guide for patients and the Family . These will atleast help you to understyand some of her behaviour and recognise scenarios, which will help to understand that this os not within her control, certainly not without treatment. Even with treatment, it is still sometimes very hard to acheive the correct balance of medications, which are the mainstay of treatment. They can have adramatic difference, but only with the right doses and combinations, alongside self management techniques, lifestyle changes and psychotherapeutic approaches. usually a combination of these approaches is required for the best outcome, but sometimes, if the illness is in a very brottle form and if you do not have an excellent psychiatrist to get the treatment balanced properly it can be very soul destroying. some general psychiatrists, and psychiatric staff, nurses, and social workers are not sufficiently trained, and still manage repeatedly to miss the symptoms that you will spot beciase you are in more frequent contact. Unless someone is acutely manic, not hypomanaic, they will miss it, and patients can be very articulate and convince doctors they are absolutely fine. Hypomanai is by no means a mild problem. It is sometimes much harder to treat or recognise than mania, which is picked up and harnessed much quicker. Hypomanai becsuse of its more subtle presentation to those who don't know what is normal for the individual goes undiagnosed or treated often for yeras or decades, by which time it has virtually ruined the individual's life, and relationships and finances, health and prospects, employment and happiness.
Be sure you want to take this on. However, all this said, if your friend/ partner does have bipolar disorder, and is lucky enough fir you to want to stay withy her and help her ( as this is a dreadfully isolating condition ) it can be very successfully managed with the RIGHT TREATMENT AND SUPPORT. THIS WILL TAKE TIME THOUGH. It is possible, but will require agreat deal of patience on both sides, perseverance, knowledge, Understanding, Much forgiveness and Love , an abundance of Love because you will most likey be hurt and abuses and insulted and let down and rejected over and over again. THis can sometime kill the Love you have, so get armed, get informed, and enjoy the loving moments when they come. Hopefully your friend/ partner may have a more manageable form than my partner, but it will probabaly take many a crisis before something comes to a head which brings her to the atention of the Psychiatrist to receive an accurate diagnosis. Make sure she is referred to a speciliast mood disorders clinic, not just a regular psychiatrist in the long term. Get a professor of psychiatry of you can. Anne Farmer in London, Maudsley affective Disorders unit . She spent much time in America too.Probably some equivalent in America ,I am sure Don't know where you are.I wish you all the very best of luck. Don't lose sight of love or hope. YOu will hate her sometimes and she will be very hateful to you, but remember, this is not her at ll. This is usually the illness talking and behaving, unless some of it is her normal behaviour. You will only come to know the real person during well periods, not hypomanic or depressed, though often the truer personality is closer when depressed, if you renmoved the depressive elements, unless deeply psychotically depressed .
Take care of yourself along the way too, and keep other social outlets. Try not to take personally what she says to you. This is the hardest thing to do. You will need them.
Anonymous .
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (15 January 2008): Give it time, when you get sick of the drama you will stop being available to her 3:00 AM conversations and she will be forced to leave you alone.
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A
male
reader, Rey +, writes (14 January 2008):
Rey is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI know girls are emotional and stuff, but with her it's like a 180 frequently...who likes you on Friday and hates you on Sunday? It's really tiresome...She said she missed me on Friday and yesterday, she deleted me as her friend on myspace! Who Loves you on Friday then hates you on Sunday? Then after she deleted me as her friend she called me at 1 am about something trivial on tv and sends me a text message at 3 am about a convo we had way earlier in the day about music...honestly, I was a bit insulted by her deleting me as a friend, especially considering I called her mother to get her out of jail on Friday! Not exactly a way to show thanks.
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A
female
reader, Sugarbuns  +, writes (13 January 2008):
 Well, I'm glad your exercising some wisdom where she is concerned. Regardless of her tone of voice when she made these comments, I don't think she'll hesitate to seek revenge on you down the road if you allow yourself to remain close enough for her to grab that chance. I know she needs help, but she's the only one that can really do that. It sounds like she lives the type of lifestyle, and choses the types of friends that don't suit your needs anyhow, so wish her well but I would remain distant from here on out. I've been down this road with a very good friend of mine, and I can tell you it won't have a happy ending for you. Good luck. Time heals all broken hearts.
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A
male
reader, Rey +, writes (12 January 2008):
Rey is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHmmmmm...I was just talking to my Ex she got arrested for driving with a suspended license. While we were discussing that she said a friend of hers asks why does she still talk to me after what I did and said "That she can talk to whoever she wants". To paraphrase she basically said that she wants to talk to me, but she won't ever forget what I said (about her having hypomania) and that one day I'm going to need something and she won't help, Her example was she wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire. Instead she said she'll reiterate that I think she's crazy. While saying all of this she was extremely upbeat and didn't sound "angry" though she said she still was. She also said I should drive to where she lives and come see her so we can hang out before I move. I have absolutely no intention of driving 3 hours to hang out with her and her Superficial stoner friends.
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A
male
reader, Rey +, writes (10 January 2008):
Rey is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSugarbuns, Thank you sooo much for all over your advice. Everything you've said makes a lot of sense. I will take every word of it to heart and proceed cautiously in my dealings with her. I will hold off on discussing the letter again with her until I see her in person and we are in a non-threatening environment. I already tried having that conversation with her over the phone and it didn't go so well the first time.
So, now I will wait for the most opportune moment to bring it back up again. Hopefully, she will come to these conclusions on her own and now that I've shown her that I'm still willing to talk to her will feel safe/open enough to ask for my help.
In moments of weakness she has expressed that her alcohol and marijuana abuse is detrimental and that she needs to stop and get away from that environment where it is all to convenient for her to do "Bad things" as she puts it. Conversations like that lead me to believe at some point once she lets her guard down completely and sets aside her ego she will concede to my point.
In the mean time, I will just make myself available to talk to her as a friend. So that when that moment does come it will be easier for her to talk to me about it.
Thanks Again!
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A
female
reader, Sugarbuns +, writes (10 January 2008):
You are a nobel man. My hat is off to you. But go cautiously into your new frontier. I never said you should tell her to "f*** off"..... But I am all too familiar with the type of woman you have described in your original post and I can tell you, until she recognizes she has a problem and gets appropriate help and medication, she may cause problems for you because you will have trouble getting over her as long as you remain in contact with her and later if you do chose to date another women, your new g/f will not be too thrilled with your involvement in this woman's life and generally, people with this disorder, or the type of personality you described, tend to be manipulative (because they can as long as they know you're heart is still somewhat attached to them) and they tend to be destructive. You may not be able to "fix" her no matter how much you want to. But you can pray for her and maybe the next time you talk to her, you should ask her if she's given your letter any more consideration and about getting some help. Watch her explode on you (typical denial) and go into one of her tangients. You will then know being in her life is going to be quite difficult. But I still wish you the best and hope that you will find someone else to spend most of your time with who will love and appreciate your generous heart. Good luck.
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A
male
reader, anon_e_mouse  +, writes (10 January 2008):
 "I could easily be that guy who says "fuck You" and just leave her to her devices, but I feel I can do more good for her as a friend"
Good for you! I'm the same and am keen to still be there in the capacity as a friend should she chose to. Nothing more.
"Keep in mind I will still live my life and won't let this hold me back from living"
Again, that's the spirit! Don't let it stop you from doing what you want to do. You get on and live your life.
It's not an easy path to take. But then is the right path ever easy? It's far easier to just "run for the hills".
I'm NOT a religious person at all but I am one for doing the "right thing".
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A
male
reader, Rey +, writes (9 January 2008):
Rey is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSugarbuns, she could not have this order and just be as you've said Immature, but in the off chance that she does have it. I don't think it would be cool to just abandon her altogether.
I'm not extraordinarily religious, but I asked a religious friend of mine whether or not I should just ignore her and not speak to her anymore and she gave me this scripture The verse is Romans 12 verse 21 which says "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." This made me decide to be the stronger person and still be her friend despite everything.
I could easily be that guy who says "fuck You" and just leave her to her devices, but I feel I can do more good for her as a friend. Who knows maybe somewhere down the line she will have a turn-around and ask me to go with her to get check out or something, If I just abandon her completely I'll never know. Keep in mind I will still live my life and won't let this hold me back from living.
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A
female
reader, Sugarbuns +, writes (9 January 2008):
I have no idea, but I think you need to stop being available to her. She does have problems and fails to recognize her own bizarre behavior. Don't answer your phone next time, and avoid her from here on out. She either has this disorder as you have suspected, or she is just flighty and immature. Either way, you'd be better off to move on to another love and forget about her entirely. Good luck.
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A
male
reader, anon_e_mouse +, writes (9 January 2008):
She won't change or get help until SHE decides there's something wrong. There is really nothing you can do. You are in a no win situation (I'm sure that's another common thing).
You'll always be in a no win situation. Often with these "disorders" there's a usual route people who are with some who has a personailty disorder take:
1) CONFUSION
This is before you're aware there is something not quite right. Occurs before any diagnoses or knowledge this person has a disorder (whether they're aware of it themselves or not). I'm guessing you might have gone through the feelings of thinking perhaps you've done something? blamed yourself for some of her behaviour? Her actions/reactions?
2) URGE THEM TO GET HELP
With the best of intentions you want to help her and stick by her. You want her to get help, urge her to get some help, and you walk around on eggshells to avoid setting off her behaviour? She puts it back on you. This is a defense mechanism from what I can understand from what I've read. Blame is always projected away from her and onto someone else. If you're the partner it's YOU.
I had this. Apparently I'm a pyscho.
3) LOOK AT YOURSELF
This is the stage I'm at, you look at yourself honestly, a sort "self discovery". I've been speaking to a counseller to deal with this as the very nature of the relationship and what happened made me look at myself. If nothing else I've learnt a lot about me and I'm sure this will enable me to live a more fulfilling life.
4) DECIDE
Stay or go?
In my situation I was completely naive and unaware of personality disorders and I actually left BEFORE I realised this was what it was.
5) RESOLUTION
Apparently, the person without the disorder in the relationship goes throught the final stage of resolution after deciding what to do. Some stay and some leave. Over time, you might well change your mind many times and try different alterntives.
I would say to you, by all means stay as friends, but don't get sucked in to the dramas. Hopefully, she'll realise herself and do something about it one day. Unfortunately it'll probably be a long painful road for her leaving a trail of broken relationships before she actually starts to wonder it could be her.
All you can do is be there for her as a friend and help her pick up the pieces.
Alternatively, it's your choice and you could peservere with it and see if there's anything you can do. I'm sure the weed and alcohol make the situation worse though and the sooner she gets away from that the better for her.
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A
male
reader, Rey +, writes (9 January 2008):
Rey is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYeah, a week after we broke up I researched the different types of bi-polar disorders and personality disorders. My Ex fits the bill of being either a hypomaniac or having a narcissistic personality disorder. I sent her a heart felt letter about my concerns and along with it sent her some information that I printed out.
After she got it she exploded and pretty much said I was crazy and put all the blame on me. (Which my denial research pretty much said would happen.)
Now all these many weeks later she's calling me as if she wasn't screaming at me at the top of her lungs over the phone. I mean, other than being her friend there's really nothing else I can do. Her oblivious and very arrogant mother had harsh words to say about me when she told her and her alcohol/weed abusing friends tell her that's she's fine and she'd rather believe her Enablers than me, because their point of view is more fun!
So, right now all I can do is be nice to her.
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A
female
reader, birdynumnums  +, writes (9 January 2008):
 It doesn't sound like she is trying to be your friend if she is bringing up little sayings that you used to use while you were together, especially if it's "Are we still getting married?". She sounds like she is starting to make plans to follow you out there. I'm not sure that she thinks that you are "permanently" broken up, and it sounds like she's hoping to get back together. If you have had so many problems in the past, and are going to be leaving for California soon, perhaps remaining friends isn't the best way to "break up". It seems to be giving her false hope, unless in fact, you want her back too.
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A
male
reader, anon_e_mouse +, writes (9 January 2008):
I've been here. However, I left the relationship then realised this is highly likely. Although in my case I think my EX has BP/BPD.
From what I can gather when under emotional stress, angry outbursts can follow and often in an uncontrollable fashion things are said. Sometimes afterwards they cannot remember even saying/doing whatever was said/done.
Meanwhile, you're left there wondering what is going on. Perhaps still hurt from what was said/done, and yet, she's totally forgotten about it.
By telling her, I'm sure you had the best of intentions, but her reaction is to deflect that onto you. This is a typical reaction. My EX often said I was the one with a "problem". After a raging outburst she would, next day, be fine as if nothing had happened. This isn't because she's a horrible person or anything... It's part of her behaviour.
Read up about bi-polar and borderline personality disorder (type it into google).
I'm seeing a counsellor at the moment to deal with the volatile and intense relationship I was in. If I were ever to be in that situation again, I'd suggest we go to couples counselling and hopefully, they'll spot it and can diagnose it - whether it's bi-polar or borderline personality disorder or a combination of the two.
Read up on bi-polar and borderline personality disorder, type it into google and do some research. Take things with a pinch of salt and remember like with anything there are extremes - so be wary of doom and gloom stories.
I read two books on the subject too. Fascinating stuff and a real eye opener!
Take a look at my article if you like about dealing with the break up: http://www.dearcupid.org/question/how-to-get-over-your-ex.html - what I've learnt about dealing with the break up from the counsellor.
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