A
male
age
36-40,
*mit Sareen
writes:Dear Ladies or should I say dear ladies only as I want only women to answer this question. I am asking these questions to you all as I quite obviously cannot ask this questions to the ladies who have forced me to ask these questions. All my life I have been in company of some really beautiful, educated, smart and intelligent women who have made some really strange choices.My first example is my own mother she is PhD in economics and when she married my dad she was already an assistant professor in reputed University. My father at that time a small time businessman who is generally short tempered, very aggressive and can be at times be verbally abusive (but I must tell he is a very loving father). My mother left her job to raise all three of us (me and my two elder sisters) only to be housewife to my father who at best is tough man to live with and despite all the pressure has been married to him since 1970(41 years and counting). Once she was complaining to me about a heated argument she had with dad I asked her why she never left him, she smiled but never responded. My second example is my elder sister who is 12 years older then me and is a Clinical Psychologist. She had a wonderful practice but moved to South Africa with her husband so that he could grow in his carrier (She is married to a guy for last 16 years who has grown in Corporate Ladders of Oil and Natural Gas industry and now heads African Operation for one of the biggest oil majors in the world.) and because her qualification is not recognized there she is reduced to a house wife for the last six years but doesn’t seems to mind her carrier being washed away. Cut to today my third example I am married to a lovely lady (who is 28 years old) who has quite a mind of her own (atleast I thought so, as when she was my girlfriend she use to be quite a monster, aggressive carrier minded woman, a lot of my friends use to stay away from her for she was no nonsense kind of lady). Last week she told me that she wants to take a break from her career (she is a practicing lawyer) and be a fulltime house wife for the next five years so that we could plan kids. I love the idea (I am the one who wants kids the most) but told her this would be a disastrous move for her carrier. The response I got was “I prefer to be a housewife to a dentist then to be in court when my heart is at home” All three instances are from within my family each one is from a different generation and all three women were quite successful however, all three chose to become housewives, which make me feel I understand women so less. Now I have following question for only and only ladies to answer: 1. Why do women chose to become a second fiddle to a man to an extent that there own personal identity gets lost. 2. How can someone who was extremely carrier minded become so insensitive to her own carrier and give priority to mundane things as household and kids. 3. I and my dad are far-far away from being ideal husbands but despite that our wives don’t seem to mind (ok they nag and sometimes shout on us but they never even thought of leaving us despite we being totally savage). How can someone seem to be okay to live in a kind-of abusive relationship?
View related questions:
a break, university Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (6 April 2011): My wife wanted her career, but when we had kids she wanted to be with those kids more than she wanted her career. She asked, and I agreed, to support that. She admits it was "kind of selfish" because I had to work more, and see less of the kids, but I earned so much more money that it worked better than if we both worked and I agreed because it was the greatest gift I could ever give the woman that I love, as well as the children that I love.I gave them their mother, unfettered by an outside job.I gave her the freedom to be a mother unfettered by financial insecurity (mostly).I have to work about 20% more than I would have otherwise, and I do miss the kids more because of that, but it has been her dream come true and I could not have said "no" to that. She knows that my job is not nearly as rewarding, and appreciates the sacrifice.
A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2011): Really great questions!
I wish this was an article. I've often thought about it when thinking about some of the sacrifices I've seen women make in my family. I had dinner last night with one of my Indian friends and showed her question to you. In fact, I tried to get her to respond, but she was busy with her "career", so I'm going to try to channel her thoughts as accurately as I can.
She is in medical residency. All of the women (her mother and sisters) in her family are doctors, and all of them have either:
1)Downgraded their career for their family...or
2)They endure insults at home from their husbands or in-laws for not being an ideal wife/mother...this is something she complains about A LOT and she's terrified will happen to her if she marries an Indian guy.
You question comes from a very specific class and culture. I am guessing most people in your family were expected to achieve higher education. I'm think these expectations have a lot to do with why they worked so hard to achieve a career title.
In each of your examples, these couples and their families could afford to live off one income. The couples you talked about could afford to have true "housewives." That tends to be the exception with most families, not the rule. Having a housewife is increasingly a hard thing to afford even for middle class people.
Another thing I've noticed and my friend verified as generally true is that there is a greater social stigma against Indian women that don't raise their own children or tend their own houses. In many instances when she's described the arguments or insults thrown in her family, I have suggested, "If your sister and your brother in-law are both doctors and professional equals, surely they can afford a nanny or a housekeeper so they don't have these arguments?" She maintains that this is socially unacceptable. It seems that hiring someone from outside of the family to do these jobs is an admission of inadequacy to your family.
She also admitted that even though she's worked hard through medical school and she knows she has to commit another 4 years before she can really practice, she occasionally fantasizes about how nice it would be to get married, get pregnant, and raise kids, so she didn't have to continue the rat-race at the hospital day in and day out. I'm not saying that raising kids is easy or mundane, but some women see it as a welcome change in pace.
Now, I'll answer your questions more generally:
1. Why do women chose to become a second fiddle to a man to an extent that there own personal identity gets lost.
This is a generalism and not always true, but men tend to build their identity on their personal acheivments and their status compared to other men. That's why competitive successes, heirarchy, and titles are often more important to men. I think women identify themselves through their social relationships more so than men.
A mom who has spent a decade raising her children at home might answer your question this way: "I don't think I'm a "second fiddle"...I haven't lost my identity. I'm a mother...That IS my identity because I make it my purpose in life to take care of my children and see that they have a good upbringing." It's a quesiton of perspective. Women see being a mother as a valid aspect of identity. Some might say that being a mother and giving birth is neccessary to developping a full identity as a woman.
2. How can someone who was extremely carrier minded become so insensitive to her own carrier and give priority to mundane things as household and kids.
Like I said before, social class and familial expectations play a big role in why someone pursues degrees and jumps through all the hoops to achieve a career title. Why might a woman bother to get a master's degree and pass the bar even if she wasn't going to use it? Because her family expected her to.
There are also women who stay in graduate school pursuing degrees because it raises their chances of finding what they think is an ideal mate: a man with higher education. For instance, my mother has admitted that she continued on into a Phd. program in part because she though she would meet "better men" in a graduate program rather than out in the civilian world. Some people would call this going to school to get your "Mrs."
Why give up on all that hard work or dent your resume by staying at home to have kids? Honestly, because the opportunity to give birth to children and raise them is has an expiration date. And the ideal biological deadline for having kids tends to coincide with when people would ideally start moving up the ladder in their careers: the mid 30s. Many women who have worked hard to establish their careers get to their mid 30s and realize that they can't put off having children forever...they either have to have kids or forget the possibility entirely. Many women don't want to let that opportunity slip by.
Why have children at all? Who doesn't want the sort unconditional love you can get from your own children? Why isn't being a mother a worthy role? It's not a paid job obviously, but it's a VERY important job and one that can make literally all the difference in someone's life if it's done well! Why is raising chilren neccessarily "mundane"? Some people (generally women) would say being a good mother is more valuable than gaining a promotion.
3. How can someone seem to be okay to live in a kind-of abusive relationship?
Good question...Honestly, I don't know why some women put up with it. I suppose if you have your children to care for, you might be willing to take the abuse to ensure that your children have an "apparently" cohesive parenting unit. It's actually a situation I don't want to end up in...I've seen it happen too many times.
I've also worked with men made the decision to stay at home or work part-time to divide the time more equally with raising the chilren. I've also seen men stay at home or work part time if their wives make more money than they do. It's pretty rare though and I think most men think it's a non-option.
Would you ever consider it?
...............................
A
male
reader, Amit Sareen +, writes (28 March 2011):
Amit Sareen is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for you valuable response. Truly appreciate your effort in responding.
Perhaps you are right. Last part of your response also enlightens me to a refreshing fact that fidelity is still a big issue with women outside India as well (I always thought It was something highly Indian).
Rest assured no matter how savage I may be I don’t abuse my relationship(verbally abusing her is a diffrent story).
Perhaps this is the only solace she can have in this relationship.
...............................
A
female
reader, Orbiter  +, writes (28 March 2011):
Well to be honest, I wasn't actually basing my ideas on India specifically, I was trying to explain the many different reasons why some women would choose to leave their careers to have a family and to then see if you could identify with any of them.Also if India has moved ahead it doesn't always mean that stereotypes and expectations are dropped and forgotten about just like that. They may not be as noticable anymore but I suspect they're still there, as they are in the UK. Admittedly I don't know that much about current Indian culture but ultimatley your best bet is to try and ask someone from there, as a man you may notice these social pressures even less. I honestly couldn't tell you why your Mother/Sister/Girlfriend wanted to have a family over a career. If it was completely out of character that could suggest some form of pressure. Or it could simply mean although they enjoyed their careers alot, they prefered the idea of having a family. You really will have to ask them to be sure. You personally may not be able to understand it, but some women DO enjoy raising children and see it as a very positive and important thing, they don't see it as losing their identity etc. As for the abusive part, I personally don't know any friends/women that would take it. Generally when the arguments are escalating to what you're suggesting, they would leave their husband/partner and have done in their previous rocky relationships. I don't why this is, it might have something to do with culture or it just might be the individuals we know.Maybe they have chosen to trust you because although, you've had your arguements, you've not as of yet broken that trust. I've seen very few relationships start on the basis of suspicion and those that did have not lasted. By choosing to trust you these women have a sense of security and can raise their family/live their life as they choose to. I don't think it's as extreme as you think, if you did betray their trust I doubt they'd stick around indefinitely. Perhaps hope is just as good a word for it because no one can predict the future, so you have to chose a path, work with it and hope it was the right one for you. Everyone does that in some way, whether it's choosing to raise a family, choosing a degree course or choosing a long term job.
...............................
A
male
reader, Amit Sareen +, writes (27 March 2011):
Amit Sareen is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOrbiter, thanks for your response however, I think you answer has been totally influenced by my nationality and general perception that goes around with India. So let me clarify India has moved ahead way beyond but it’s still not a classless society. The class these women belong to (upper middle class) puts no pressure on them for being housewife’s (infact it might work against this concept). I agree I gave only 3 examples and there are some 3 billion women but I have seen this trend not only within my family and India but in some of the most developed parts of the world. Which makes me wonder is it kind of global feminine issue? I agree with you on the part that yes all three males (i.e. My Father, My Sisters Husband and Myself) earn decent enough to take care of our families most of the materialistic needs. But that again doesn’t explain why these women who were highly carrier oriented have suspended their professional life. Tonight if I win a Million $ lottery I am still going to extract a teeth tomorrow morning (I am a dentist). For the abusive relation part well I can safely say my wife can ensure that she hurt other esteem (so forget about her having low self-esteem, after all she is a lawyer of repute) but the fact is even I agree sometimes I can be a tough man to deal with but she has all the patience in dealing with me. Had someone else done that I would have considered him dead. So the question remains: Why the hell you trust us so much it makes me nervous. I have my own set of doubts that will I be the man enough (taking care of her and my future family through thick and thin of things). It’s nothing to do with money but the shear fact that she trusts me more then I trust myself.
...............................
A
female
reader, person12345  +, writes (27 March 2011):
 There are many generations of societal expectations weighing upon them. Many women are told as they are growing up that that behavior makes for a respectable wife, and that's the kind of woman men want to marry... etc etc... A lot of women are scared that they will hurt their husband's feelings if they are as successful as he is. Basically they are living up to the societal expectations that women stay in the home rather than in the workforce.
...............................
A
female
reader, Orbiter +, writes (26 March 2011):
I can't really comment on the women you've mentioned as although you've described what they've done in their lives, I don't know them well enough personally.Keep in mind that you are only describing 3 women, whereas there are nearer 3 billion in the world, so don't necessarily make your judgements based purely on them.Generally though there are a number of reasons why a woman might want to be a housewife instead of having a career and vice versa. They might have a stronger hormonal/biological urge to have and look after children and enjoy doing it. Or live in a society where more value is placed on the family and housewives, so if they become one they (subconciously) receive positive reinforcement. Also even if it's in small almost unnoticable ways, people may treat them with a little more respect as they're following the social norms. If they don't and put their career first they may receive the opposite - criticism in forms such as pressure from friends/family to settle down and have children or in other more extreme ways in less tolerant societies.There may be more personal matters that help them reach their decision, such as not enjoying their job, or not getting along with the people they work with. In some cases their husbands may have better paying jobs so it makes more financial sense to stay at home, especially in cultures where you would have to pay for childcare otherwise. Even just for convienience if there is no strong desire for a career and no financial reasons.As for abusive relationships, it could be that the woman has little self-esteem as the constant aggressiveness(e.g insults) and maybe social isolation wear it away. Making some women too scared to leave for fear they won't find anyone else or in more extreme cases it's fear of violence. Also you don't really know someone until you live with them and in some cultures you have to marry first so if you then find out you're married to someone abusive then it's easier to just stay with them, instead of have to live with the stigma of divorce and deal with all the stress that goes with itI doubt your case is that extreme though, it could be a difference of personality, some people are more easy going and can get along with almost everyone, not taking arguments to heart. In some relationships it can be the woman who is agressive and verbally abusive.
...............................
A
male
reader, Danielepew  +, writes (26 March 2011):
 Good question. Ladies?
...............................
|
