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female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes: My boyfriend told me that he doesn't love me passionately, but he did say loves me and wants to be with me. He said the reason he doesn't love me passionately is that he has doubts because we fight sometimes and he thinks that I'm overly sensitive and I have anger issues. He said that he worries that I'll be a "slacker" in the marriage if we were to get married as far as cooking and child rearing goes. He's not entirely wrong. I find I do get offended easily and hurt easily. I used to think its best to air everything and be open, but I realize that I should keep quiet sometimes because not everything is worth fighting about. I do feel angry sometimes when I've felt he has insulted me, and I've called him out on it. But I admit I harped on things sometimes. About the slacker thing, it's true I'm not a very domestic person. I've met some of his friends' wives and they are amazing as far as keeping house and home -to the point where I know I'll never be like that (gourmet dinners, very deferential, mother-in-law pleasing, etc). But I've told him this already and he said he accepts that. But I don't think I'd be a slacker with my kids if I had any. I would think I'd rise to the occasion. I'm being honest, I can't make promises but I wouldn't drop the ball. Anyway, he said a few more things. And I guess I'm a little dejected now. Which would get into an unproductive cycle if I were to get upset (which I haven't with him yet) and make things worse. We have already talked about it when the topic came up, I did say I'm concerned that he doesn't love me passionately and that I thought it sounded like settling. He doesn't think that, he says. But he said he doesn't know if he would ever love passionately or maybe he can when the doubts are gone. So this was already discussed, and if I gave more to say, I'd have to reopen the subject and bring it up again. Do I just let this go? Accept it, because maybe I'm misreading him? Or leave relationship? A part of me is practical, and there are a lot of qualities I love about him, and I do love him. He's a good man, treats me well, beyond well in fact. But I guess I'm just a little sad because the other part of me was looking for "romance." Maybe I've watched too many Disney movies. And then another part of me thinks, am I so awful I should leave because HE deserves better and I need time to work on myself? Anyway, additional info: We've been together a year and a half, not living together, we're both the type who wants to get married and have kids, etc. We're both working professionals, full time. He's older than me though, and hasn't had any real long term relationships, whereas this is my third or so. At this time we're still together. He wants to stay together and work on things. But I myself am currently at a loss... Reply to this Question
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female
reader, janniepeg  +, writes (12 January 2016):
 I feel he's trying to trap you into marriage. I bet it's not that you are not the perfect match for him. He just found the only flaw you have, which is you are not a Doris Day type of wife. He attacked it and used it as an advantage to have the upper hand in this relationship. As an older man dating a younger woman, he will be insecure. So he would point out your flaws to bring you down, to make you earn his approval. It seems like he wants to make amends just so that he won't be lonely and have no one to take care of him. It doesn't come naturally. That's the thing I worry about. This is his first long term relationship so what does he know about passion coming after marriage? More like he wants food cooked for him and laundry done for him. There's a degree to which people trade things in relationships but he's making it too obvious, which takes away the romance.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (12 January 2016): Hi, I'm the OP. I'm sorry I've taken so long to respond. First, I want to say THANK YOU for all your responses. I've really read each one over and over again, mulling them over. I'm still just thinking over the relationship. I still feel disappointed and sad. I still love him, and it's hard to just leave. After really sitting and thinking with all your answers, I did have a sit down and talk to him about a few things. So to answer and clarify things: I do love him, and I feel that I love him passionately. After reading your responses, I very carefully broached the topic with him - to just have him clarify marriage with me and what he means by passion. He has told me that he feels a spark with me, When things get physical, I do believe that we both feel the physical passion in those moments. So I didn't understand what he meant by "passion." So, when I asked him to clarify, he said that he does one day want to marry me, but that right now he does not feel it. He says that he feels caged at times, he feels doubt at times. He says that he feels a spark and loves me and is happy, but the "passion" is something he thinks can only happen in marriage. I really still don't understand him, and I said as much. I told him that it doesn't make sense that something like that would just spontaneously and magically happen with a legal documentation and formal proceeding (like a wedding) and that that type of thing should exist even without the formalities of marriage. So maybe I still don't understand. Wiseowl: WOW, your response really made me open my eyes. Maybe I was never wife material in his eyes. Period. It's a blow to the ego. I get it though, there are other people for either of us, and better to be with someone who wants to be with me. Well, this is definitely a life experience, and now's a good as time as any for it. Janniepeg: my side of the story, you're right, in the beginning of the relationship he really said some insulting things to me that third parties agreed were insulting. Worse, instead of apologizing, he defended his actions. I think he just didn't know better since this is his first real long term relationship. I do think I had a right to be upset at the time, but then I acknowledge I messed up by not moving on for some time. We've put these incidents behind us - it took months but he finally realized he was insulting and he apologized, and I finally stopped bringing it up. It made the relationship difficult in the beginning though.A few of you mentioned things along the lines of his trying to train me, asking me to "jump." I really didn't even consider this at the time! And man, after reading those responses, I did get a little upset, too, on top of feeling dejected. I did tell him that I couldn't change fundamental things for him, and I felt that I needed to be accepted as I am with certain things, which he agreed with wholeheartedly. I'm on the fence with this one. Sometimes I feel upset when I'm alone because I don't want to be taken for granted or unappreciated for being who I am, but then I remember all the things he's done for me and how much he's changed in this relationship. He's really come a long way from being insulting and inconsiderate to really trying to understand me and empathize and stand in my shoes. So I know he has invested some into this relationship and worked on this relationship. He even paid for counselling to get us to communicate better. As I said, I know I can be unreasonable and demanding, so it's hard to tell if it's me or him. This relationship has been a lot of work for me, too, which I don't think is a bad thing, personally, because I know my last exes put up with A LOT (I don't think I'm an easy gf, since I an sensitive and get upset easily) and I've really learned to be better because of him. It's interesting because Mystiquek and one of the anonymous posts give such opposite viewpoints. I want both stability and romance. I really do love him and value him. I would be happy but for the fact that I feel he is not so in love with me or valuing me.... So unfortunately, I don't have an update really. We're still together. We've had happier times. Recently he did reveal that he feels caged because I text so much, though I've told him before and retold him today, that I don't expect responses back from him, but no problem, I won't text as much. I just feel unsure why this would make him feel caged. Again, maybe it's me. Maybe we're ultimately not right for each other. Maybe he expects perfect. I'm still mulling this one over. Thank you all again so much. TRULY you have given me insight so I can look at this problem with different eyes, from different view points.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2016): I agree with mystiquek about passion in the relationship. It's a major ingredient in a marriage, or any type of long-term romantic relationship. It is how attraction is expressed, it reflects the depth of sexual-compatibility, and it is the fuel romance runs on.
People can perpetuate relationships based on trust, getting along well, being used to each other, co-dependency, financial-dependency, children, and complacency. It is passion that pulls all these other reasons together to create a love-machine. In my experience, that forms a well-rounded relationship. You need all of the above; because that's what the best romantic partnerships are all made of.
I am personally a great cook and housekeeper. My parties and dinners are legendary. These are things that I learned and worked at improving. I watch TV shows, read books, observe the skills of others, and I emulate. It's all learned behavior, and a matter of practice. Of course some have a special talent; but keeping a place clean is most necessary when raising children. Kids are little mess-producers; and you have to be well-practiced in picking up after them. Keeping things tidy and orderly adds comfort and serenity to the home. You don't have to be a Martha Steward to set a table or make a bed. That's everyone's dream situation; but not necessarily the reality of most lifestyles.
I think you took your boyfriend's assessments and criteria far too personally. You took his opinion as an insult; but you should expect an honest answer, if you really want to be able to trust your mate. Even if it's a standard you can't meet, remember there are many he will never meet for you.
His reasons for not marrying you can't be settled on one particular area. As far as his criteria for marriage, he simply thinks you're a better girlfriend. Being a husband or a wife requires a great deal more from a partner. Sometimes being a great girlfriend or boyfriend is as far as it goes. You both may still be in search of the one.
You have the option to leave at any time, and seek whatever your relationship lacks from someone you consider more compatible, or a better match. Settling for someone who lacks something you really need, is setting yourself up for disaster. Hoping it might develop if you wait long enough is unrealistic; if not sort of stupid. If it doesn't come naturally; there's no emotional substitute for passion. It's either there, or it's not.
That doesn't dismiss the fact you love each other; but it is most important that you are "in-love" with each other, when considering marriage and a family.
Passion goes high on the list; because you need it to perpetuate your highest emotional commitment to each other. It's a need most people have, and it doesn't always center around sex. It's that emotional connection that quickens the heartbeat, you get aroused in their presence, and you miss them like crazy in their absence. Like you, I couldn't settle for less. I need it and I have it! However; I'm not talking about imaginary Hollywood-manufactured crap, or romance novel fodder. Your man should spontaneously bring you flowers, kiss your neck, hold your hand, offer you passionate kisses, hugs and caresses; and make you feel weak in the knees. That's for real. I've experienced it in my past, and now in the present with someone new. Hopefully, I also generate it.
I was in a 28-year relationship; and if it wasn't for passion, I would have been bored to death! However; I had to teach my partner how to express his romantic emotions and to freely show affection. He froze-up due to too much emphasis on "masculinity" and proving his manhood. Being gay, he was suppressing far too much of his real emotions in an attempt to hide who he really is. I was able to help him bring it out. It was amazing what he had bottled-up inside of him; but was too afraid to let it all out. When he did, it made our relationship all the better. Even arguments were sensuous and passionate. They usually ended with forgiveness and compromise. That took years of work, but time paid off. It had to be there to start with, that's part of the chemistry and glue that binds you as a couple.
I always knew what was inside of him; because we met as teenagers. He changed over-time; because he felt it was necessary to prove himself manly, and to be taken seriously in his profession as an attorney. Knock all that, when you get home, you're my man! I'm yours! So show me!
If your man feels you're not marriage material; don't forget, he has based that only on your domestic capabilities. He has no idea what he's talking about.
In fact, you don't know a person until you've lived together for years; and you've seen all their faults and flaws.
If you're a great girlfriend, he has been satisfied with that. I think his opinions were mainly to extinguish any thoughts you may have about marriage in the near future.
Maybe he doesn't want that kind of commitment; so he had to knock you down by giving you an observation that would somewhat emotionally paralyze you. Perhaps dampen your confidence as a woman. Thus all the trepidation and feelings of inadequacy you feel. You've been criticized by your mother for it, most likely? It just struck a nerve. That's all!
Your attributes and qualities don't rest on his opinion alone. Nobody knows you better than you! Just keep rediscovering yourself, improving yourself, and challenging your potential. You'll knock somebody's socks off! He'll hate knowing he didn't realize your potential and formed all his opinions on you being his "girlfriend;" and comparing you to women already "wives and mothers." They had to learn; they weren't born with that knowledge, girlfriend!
Maybe you wouldn't suit his high standards and criteria; but there's always someone else you will be perfect for.
We all need work, and we all need self-improvement. So take his opinion positively, and dismiss the negative undertones. I think you were being oversensitive, and allowed him too much latitude. He's an old fart to some degree, and doesn't realize that things have changed a bit since the times of his mother and grandmother. Men now stay home to mind the children, while wifey earns the money. Guys cook, clean, sew, and do all the domestic stuff our grandmothers did for grandpa, and we're freaking proud of having the skills. We can nurture babies from infants, and run a household like pros. Because, like you said; "we often have to rise to the occasion!" If not for the one we're with, but for someone who simply brings out the best in us. Fueled by the passion we always needed and desired!
There is no need to argue your case, or substantiate your abilities as a wife and mother. He has no idea what he'd be like as a husband and father, until he's faced with it.
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female
reader, mystiquek  +, writes (3 January 2016):
 I will speak from my own experience. I have been married and divorced twice. My first marriage was when we were both 19. The passion/lust was definitely there but he was too immature and far too firey for me and it turned physical. 2 years, and we divorced. The 2nd marriage I was 24 with a child and was very very cautious because I had a child to think of. I married a man 10 years older than me, very grounded, intelligent and seemed like a perfect husband/father figure. I cared about him deeply but I think I let my fears get in the way and didn't let my heart speak. I think he had passion...I didn't. I cared but there just wasn't any spark and although we stayed married 17 years, I always felt something was missing. I finally left when he turned into a full blown alcoholic. I never cried a tear when I left, I just wanted out.
Years later after years of dating the same man, I married again. This marriage has it all..passion, caring and understanding. This man is the love of my life.
Please don't underestimate passion. It certainly isn't everything, but if there isn't a spark....the marriage will get old waaaaay before its time. You have to decide if you can put up with someone who has doubts and isn't sure there is passion. I quite frankly wouldn't want to be with someone like that. You are never going to feel like you are good enough.
Just a little bit more advice...don't ever change for someone else, sweets. Change because YOU want to, not because someone thinks you should. You won't be happy if you do something just to appease someone else.
I would think things over very carefully ok? He's not the only man out there..and though you say he's a good guy...if the sparks aren't there now, they aren't going to be there later. I know..I walked that path.
I wish you all the best. Good luck!
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female
reader, Slippers  +, writes (3 January 2016):
Hey sweetieI'm wondering how he views passion .. as certainly it isn't what I cook or how I clean or how much I nag ( and apparently I nag beautifully haha ) the house .. unless I'm dressed in a little maid outfit oh..lala ..It's for us the chemistry when we're together and how much even after years together .. We still have that heat .. that's loving passionately and the fact I know for a fact .. He would walk over hot coals of fire for me .. For the Kids .. that he knows where his bread is buttered ..So my q's is .. how do you feel when you are together ..do feel heat when he kisses you .. do you feel passion .. does he ??My house btw is tidy and clean we have kids it does sometimes get messy here and there . I am good cook but even it I weren't I don't think he would mind ..If your happy and content but have no passion .. then there is always some room I think that's someone may come along for either of you and tempt you.So be sure with what he means .. certainly passionate isn't cooking or cleaning .. its how he wants you and desires you and wants wants wants just you .. that's my humble opinion sweetie .Take care x
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2016): Hi thereI hear manipulation all through your post. He is, in my opinion, manipulating you. He is telling you that he can't love you like you want to be loved by him, because of your faults. Hmmmmm. Does he have faults? Do you love him still? He is insulting you and as Jannipeg said we haven't heard enough to be able to tell, but manipulative men will often provoke their partners and then when their partner reacts, tell them they are unlovable/wrong because of their reaction. Which in turn, makes you not react, because you want them to love you. Am I correct? You sound already as if you have not got angry with him, but you feel you would like to express yourself. Be honest, are you free to express yourself without criticism from him? You have every right to air whatever you want to air in a relationship, but you're already doubting that. His manipulation is working.Also, he said that he might be able to love you passionately if his doubts about you go.....i.e if you behave exactly as he wants. He has also said that if he married you, he doubts you would pull your weight. My guess is that he knows you want to take your relationship to the next level and that by saying this to you, you will immediately jump in with, 'Oh but I will, I'll do everything and I'll try my best' etc etc. With this manipulation, he's getting you just where he wants you. Quiet and not expressing yourself, he can insult you or whatever and make you angry but you can't retaliate because the he would 'have doubts about you'. You would do your best to do all the household chores and child rearing because he's got you to state that you will before he marries you or lives with you. Bottom line....he will love you as long as you behave appropriately. I believe he wants you, but he wants you trained. To be subservient and domesticated.This is ringing out loud and clear to me, because I've been there and read so many books on the subject that when I hear abuse/manipulation, I recognise it instantly. Please read books about abuse and manipulation and it will show you what I believe, in your gut, you know already. That something ain't right. And you're right.
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reader, janniepeg +, writes (3 January 2016):
If I am working full time then I would not be the gourmet gook and in law pleaser when I get home. Maybe his friends can manage it all but for me it would make me go insane. Still without the luxuries of life it does not mean a man does can not love passionately. I wonder if he is just blunt, insensitive, or is he saying it on purpose to make you change.
I didn't hear your side of the story. Sometimes when a woman gets angry, it could be because the boyfriend provokes it. If he is a bitter old man expecting the combination of a submissive wife and a professional worker whom he does not have to financially support, he's asking for the impossible.
He'd better step up the romance or lose you. You can't make a man love you so I would pass on that one. You could also say he's old, and usually older men are sweeter to make up for his lack of youth and since he isn't, you can't love him passionately and marry him.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2016): Reading your post reminded me of me. I'm also unintentionally overly sensitive and at times quick tempered. It's something I'm really trying to work on. My relationship ended in October because of it.
As far as the "romance" is concerned. At this point in my life romance is not as important as stability respect and being treated well. You say he's good to you. That's Huge. So maybe talk to him and ask for a weekly date night. Or a romantic weekend once a month or so. Being recently single I would opt more towards working things out instead of leaving.
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reader, anonymous, writes (3 January 2016): For your own sanity, leave this man. He just told you that you weren't good enough, he told you to jump and exactly how high to "earn" his love. You are required to put up, shut up, clean up, and ignore his faults. What you two have in common is disrespect for you, i.e. neither one of you has much respect for you. Save yourself from his judgement you are not perfect, neither is he.
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