A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I'm a married man, and my wife has just said that she still loves me but is not in love with me. She says I'm a great father and husband and she doesn't want to hurt me.Then, she explained, she has a friend which has gotten into the "with benefits" stage. I've known for a while, he's got the same hobbies and interests as her and even I could see there's a chemistry between them because of those shared interests, that has never really been there between us, even when we first got together.I'm an old fashioned guy, and there's never been anyone else in my life. I've only ever loved her. So, it tears me up to think she needs to have this other guy in her life. But it hurts to know that I cannot provide what it seems she needs in terms of common interests and emotional support, in the same way that this new guy clearly can.I can't ignore the evidence of my own eyes. All the time she has been with me, she's had bouts of depression and nothing I've ever done to support her, has ever lifted her out of it completely. With this guy, she's a whole new woman. If she wanted to end the marriage, she could, but maybe she wants me to walk out rather than end it herself. I asked her about that and she was horrified, and said that he is just a friend (with benefits) and there's no way she'd leave me to be with him on a permanent basis because "it's not an affair and I don't love him in that way".I can't carry on living with not knowing if she's just staying with me for convenience and/or a sense of obligation to our kids, or if she genuinely does want to stay with me but has needs I cannot meet that she feels guilty about.Any ideas?
View related questions:
affair, married man Reply to this Question
Share |
Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (31 August 2011): (hi this is the same poster from 29 Aug). To be honest your story unfortunately doesn't sound surprising now.. Let me get these facts straight:
- your wife has battled depression almost the whole time you've known her.
- you two have a disabled son
- you are only home on weekends. Mon-Fri you live in various hotels because of your job
- i.e. your wife has always been sorta a single-mom raising your disabled son on her own for the majority of the time. and she has always had depression too since before that.
I'm very sorry to say this but it's not surprising, unfortunately, that she fell into the arms of another man. it doesn't mean it's acceptable, and it doesn't mean it's your fault, but on a brutally realistic level this situation seems the "perfect" convergence of disaster for a marriage. All the conditions are "right" for an affair to begin: high levels of stress, isolation, chronic depression, loneliness, maybe also a lack of trust or insecurity on her part or sense of abandonment...
your wife was probably very unhappy in her marriage for a long time before the affair began. Maybe she was just very unhappy with her life in general what with her depression especially, but the marriage is a part of her life so by default she was very unhappy with the marriage too. Whether she was honest with you about it so you were aware of the extent of it, that's another issue. But the thing is, affairs happen to marriages which are already distressed, not to marriages that are strong and healthy. And if you weren't aware of how troubled your marriage was, that's just another sign of how bad things were.
Again, it doesn't mean that it's acceptable for her to have an affair just because the conditions were right. It doesn't mean it was your fault. Chronic depression is a stressor and breaker of marriages even without affairs involved. And it doesn't mean that she is justified in having an affair. The "right" thing to do , on hindsight, would have been for you two to have gone to marriage counseling a long time ago, before she started her affair but when she was already very unhappy with the marriage. Or for her to have initiated a divorce a long time ago if she was THAT unhappy with the marriage that she just couldn't stay faithful and wanted more than the marriage could provide. but hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it, and things don't happen the way they should. That's life, unfortunately..
anyway. I wish you the best of luck in working out a solution. At this point, my personal opinion is that your option of packing your bags and leaving with your dignity intact is a good one. Don't spite her, there's no need to. I just read thru some of the earlier comments, and I believe the comments other people gave you about being a "cuckhold" refer not to getting an amicable divorce that meets the needs of your child, but to your original stated choice to stay married to her while she continues her affair. those are two completely different things.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 August 2011): OP again...If you read the first few responses, I got the distinct impression that too many people were assuming, if either one of us were to move out, it ought to be her.Comments like "she leave the marital home", "Kick this b*tch to the curb" and "change the locks" reinforced that perception in my mind. When I indicated that probably wasn't the way it's going to work, the assumptions were that I was (a) happy to remain a cuckold or (b) completely lacking in self-respect.I don't see any self-respect in making children suffer for the sins of their mother, and I don't see any self-respect in cutting my nose off to spite my face. I do see self-respect in knowing this is the last chance saloon - she's either with me or she's not, no second chances. I also see self-respect in asserting that if she really does want to be with this other guy, maybe the better solution is for me to pack some suitcases, and walk away with my head held high - better that than be a cuckold.I have some reservations on where to go from there. When you live your life in different hotels for most of the time, forming a stable relationship with someone new is quite challenging. But I only say that because it's from the school of the bleeding obvious, not because I have low self-esteem. If I'm up at 5am driving to a customer, working there till late, then going to a hotel, eating, and crashing out, and so on, the opportunity to meet new people is a bit limited. And, I actually do have enough willpower and sense of self-worth to NOT go around picking up lushes in hotel bars.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (29 August 2011): hi, sorry to hear about your situation. I didn't read all the comments, just your initial and last posts. Anyway just wanted to add my two cents. good for you for pursuing the issue with your wife, and going to counseling. I hope the counseling will help you move towards some workable resolution.I find it strange though, that you seem to think that if you proceed with divorce, you'll be required to kick her and your disabled son out of the house and be a jerk to them. You already live elsewhere Mon-Fri, so why don't YOU be the one to move out of the house and let your wife have the house. Honestly if that's the only reason holding you back from a divorce when you otherwise would do it, I don't really understand what the hold up is.The way I see it, you already live elsewhere Mon-Fri and only see your wife and son on weekends. Therefore your wife is already sort of a single mom anyway. And she has a job which is good, so she's already somewhat financially independent which will help her move on with her life especially along with child support payments from you. Your son doesn't see you that much already, as it is. In fact if you divorce and you move out of the house while your wife continues living in the house, and you see your son on weekends as is a typical post-divorce arrangement, it doesn't sound much different from your son's present routine. yes he would have to adjust to some change on the weekends, but his weekdays would be unchanged. And you could make the weekend changes gradual as well, to help him with the transition.Why do you say that divorce is going to make you have to be some evil jerk to her and kick her and your son out onto the street??? Why don't you move out, you already have somewhere else that you're living Mon-Fri, so...??Maybe you have some misconception about what divorce is and isn't but it's entirely up to you to be the one as generous as you want. Heck if you wanted, you could sign away all of your money to her forever as well. Divorce doesn't mean you are required to take her to the cleaners, it's up to you how mean you want to be about it or not. And in the end, the courts will consider the needs of the children, so I doubt a judge would let you kick your wife out onto the street even if you wanted to.these days many people are using divorce mediators or divorce counselors instead of lawyers, so you can do that too if you're worried your lawyer would take your wife to the cleaners without your control. (although your wife's lawyer should protect her from that if that were to happen). anyway it's good that you and your wife are going to counseling, I hope that helps you work something out.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (28 August 2011): OK - OP again hoping yet again that the message will actually appear here since the last one didn't.My wife and I have had a long discussion about this situation. She's prepared to go with me to counselling, and knock the relationship on the head while we do that. Obviously there's a trust issue here, and there are no guarantees, but ignore that for a moment. I am entirely prepared to file for divorce if the counselling fails, and she now knows that.There are practical reasons which I've now tried more than once to explain here, complicate matters in terms of what to do if we do split up.One of my children is autistic, and has heart problems. My wife is qualified for special needs teaching and knows the routine and health requirements, of our child and others. And, she is paid by the school, to do exactly that. This being the UK where employment law is entirely secular, her employment status is protected to the extent that it is none of the school's business who she sleeps with, as long as it doesn't impact on her ability to perform her duties in the classroom. This is after all a child who will have a major anxiety attack at the smallest of variations from a set routine (for example having to cross the road at a different point to the usual crossing). The needs of the children, not mine as a father, are paramount from the school's point of view. I work away during the week, and only get home on weekends, so exactly what routine and exactly what tactics my wife uses to manage the children she looks after, are a mystery to me. But, it's a professional gig.So it isn't for HER benefit that I've discounted some of the advice upthread; it is for HIS benefit that I would regard kicking her out, as a downright evil and pointless thing to do, and one that would undoubtedly come back to haunt me if the divorce goes messy and we're trying to arrange custody and she brings the "he hurt our son to get at me" argument up.This is why I've been minded all along to go with an attempted reconciliation. If that fails, I will at least have the knowledge that my son will be in a specialist school next year, my wife will not be his professional carer anymore, and there will be other ways for us to split up where he cannot be turned into a pawn in a divorce from hell.
...............................
A
male
reader, Wild Thaing  +, writes (28 August 2011):
 You give your kids far too little credit. Their perspective may surprise you.
I agree with previous posters - your actions speak to your kids far louder than your words. Words coming from a damaged parent willing to perpetuate a lie. How do know that your children won't be better off after a separation/divorce? The conversation in your head is only had within your head, disconnected from a reality that your children live everyday.
Your subsequent post only validates what I observed in my first post. Until you get on with the job of healing yourself your children will suffer.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (28 August 2011): "If she would rather be with him than with me, and wishes to leave me, then I totally accept, that's the marriage over but again,"But your marriage IS already over, don't you see? It's no longer a true marital relationship because it's not functioning as one and doesn't look like it will ever again as long as the other guy is still in the picture. Once a third party enters the marriage and furthermore is willingly kept there, the marriage relationship has ended. The legal and logistical structure is all that remains. it's a shell and facade that's all. What you are 'committed' to now, is to preserving a lie. your wife could secretly want to legally end the marriage (she's already ended it in spirit) but is just too afraid or guilty or ashamed to admit it, and is hoping you will be the one to have the guts to do it for her. by the way, divorcing someone doesn't mean you have to turn into an asshole. You can divorce amicably and with dignity and from the position of staying in each other's lives just not as marriage partners anymore but as friends (maybe distant friends) and co-parents. if you already have merely a co-worker or roommate type of relationship with her (since her emotional/mental/spiritual life is with the other guy and looks like it's gonna stay that way) then you're already halfway there anyway.anyway if you're not going to leave your wife, then all you can really do is to just take a deep breath and brace yourself for more continuing assaults on your senses because you already know she would rather be with him and hope that some day she may finally gather the courage to leave you and end your misery.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (27 August 2011): The reason to leave your wife is not about punishing her, it's about respecting yourself and your kids. The problem is that you are setting a terrible EXAMPLE for your kids. Staying with her and allowing this situation to go on is condoning it. That's the bottom line. Actions speak MUCH louder than words and your actions will be accepting what she is doing even if your words are not. You are basically telling your kids that this is acceptable behavior for a wife to do to her husband. You are teaching a male child that this is what he should expect from a woman. You are teaching a female child that this is what a mature adult woman acts like when she is married.Every parent on earth wishes their kids would just learn from their words instead of copying their actions. It would make parenting much easier. But unfortunately that is not how it works. The kids will repeat the relationship patterns you teach them, for better or worse. As a parent you don't have the luxury of instructing them, "do as I say, not as I do." It just won't work.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 August 2011): Wonders never cease to amaze me.OP well u made your decision. Hope u dont live to regret it.BTW your kids will understand. WHY? Bec they should know the difference bet right and wrong and the fact that their mother is screwing around, they know this is wrong.Please do not use your kids as an excuse. Kids do understand. The Aunts have not given u bad advice. Their advice was spot on but u choose to remain a cuckold. That is the difference.I think u have decided that. A cheating wife is better than no wife.Good luck and i hope that one day u will be brave and do what u need to do.LoveGirl
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (27 August 2011): For clarification: the "spirit" of our marriage vows is that I don't chuck her out on the basis of what she's done so far. We made a commitment, and even if she's broken it that doesn't mean I am obliged to go on a vengeful wrecking spree with what's left. If she would rather be with him than with me, and wishes to leave me, then I totally accept, that's the marriage over but again, some people here are giving what I think is very bad advice and I do wonder if they've been informed by being in a situation where they decided that being betrayed, excuses one to take every opportunity to be downright evil to an ex-partner even if that damages the kids in the process. TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT.There are kids involved one of whom is autistic, and she is their primary carer. If I did change the locks, turf her out on the street, chuck her clothes out of the window and all that business, the kids would hate me for it and no amount of explanation as to why I've done it, is going to make them think it was the right thing to do. So, bankrupting myself in the divorce courts and ending up in a protracted child custody dispute while alienating the children sounds like a stupid way of making me feel better over what's happened - some people here seem to think that's how I should go, and I just wonder, are any of them from a law firm that specialises in handling lengthy divorces? Because nobody benefits from that approach except the schysters."Anonymous" (2 questions, 25th August) "Odds" "So Very Confused" and "RedAthena" have all offered some very positive suggestions and I'm definitely going to take them on board.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 August 2011): oh OP I read your update: sad indeedseems like you have resigned yourself to be a willing cuckold!If the Aunts cannot get through you, then no one can. you have had excellent advice and well, you are choosing not to take it.You do not believe in yourself, you are in denial and well, if you have no self respect then what can us mere strangers do?OP read all the responses again.
...............................
A
female
reader, chocoholicforever  +, writes (25 August 2011):
Reading your follow up post, it's still not clear why you're staying in this marriage.
You say you follow the spirit of the law, not the letter. but with her carrying on an affair, seems to me to be breaking the spirit of the law. the spirit of marriage is mutual trust and respect. When you allow or excuse your partner violating this, then not just her but also you are no longer following the spirit of the law. She is basically saying "to heck with trust, respect and exclusivity." and you're saying "That's OK with me."
with all due respect, it sounds like you are co-dependent. It also sounds like you are staying married out of fear - fear that you will never meet anyone new and thus being single or unmarried.
You can of course continue to stay married for these reasons, but they are still ultimately emotionally unhealthy reasons which means your pain will probably continue indefinitely unless some positive change occurs in the relationship or in yourself.
You wrote: "But, tell me: in all seriousness, was it right for me to help her out of her depression, or should I have left her in it for my own benefit?"
The answer is yes and no. If your wife came out of her depression in part because of your help, then you are to be commended. But there is a fine line between helping someone out of their dysfunctionality for real, versus doing their work for them so they're not really healed, they're only "better" as long as you continue to fill in the blanks for them. it's like the difference between giving a hungry person a fish (helping someone) versus teaching them how to fish for themselves (helping them to help themselves so they no longer continually need you to do stuff for them)
It sounds to me that she hasn't healed from her depression, instead she relies on others to support her so she can feel good about life. Because normal people know that it's wrong (unethical, immoral) to have affairs, emotionally healthy people would not get themselves into situations where they are having an affair and justifying it so as to continue it. Her behavior is still dysfunctional, maybe less so that in the past, but it still seems she has emotional problems she can't deal with effectively. So that suggests to me that she didn't "learn to fish for herself" (i.e. to feel better about herself or life in general or cope with her stresses), rather she only improved in her mood and outlook if other people were propping her up and helping her to feel good about herself and about life. This is not true healing. And maybe it was you who propped her up enabling her to feel good, until she found someone new who could do that job better than you.
So to answer your question of whether it was right for you to help her out of her depression: Yes, if it was truly helping her to heal on her own. No, if it was being a crutch for her which fostered or continued her dependence on others to keep her dysfunctionality masked.
If you disagree and believe that your wife is indeed truly "healed" from her depression and as a result is feeling so good that she's now discovered a whole new world and with it a new man that she prefers..then here's a different take on it: it could be that your relationship up until now was built upon a parent-child relationship (you disproportionately helping or taking care of her rather than an equal exchange between peers). So now that she's truly no longer in need of "parenting" the relationship has lost its foundation and thus you are left without a role to play in this marriage. She has 'grown up' and discovered that who she truly is - the person without the mental illness of depression - is not the same kind of person who would normally have chosen you as a life partner because that was not her true personality when she was under the cloud of depression. maybe she pursued you and married you because she needed you at the time (because you were the one who happened to be there). Now there's little left in the relationship because the relationship was built around her needing your help. However I tend to think that if this is the case, if she really was emotionally healthy now, she would not have gotten deep into an affair and be messing up your life this way. I think she would have realized that you are not her type and perhaps initiated an uncomfortable discussion with you about the state of the marriage long before anyone new entered the picture or at the first signs of feeling attracted to someone else or just nipping the affair in the bud rather than building it. The fact that she did not stop herself from obviously inappropriate crossing boundaries with her friend, and now still can't be straight with you about what she wants, suggests she still isn't in control of herself, which points to being emotionally unhealthy.
the point is - she is messed up. And people who are messed up tend to mess up other people too if those other people let them. So, it's better to take your focus off of her and put it back on yourself to protect your own mental and emotional health. Her mental and emotional health is her responsibility and hers only. And your mental/emotional health is your responsibility.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2011): I can't believe what I'm reading here, but the fact that she tells you flat out in your face that she has a friend with benefits but wants to stay with you tells me that she doesn't respect you one iota. It all comes down to you putting your foot down and telling her that enough is enough, because if she does not end the affair you should high tail your behind right out of this marriage. Not that it's the right thing to do, but why can't she,like 99% of people who have affairs, keep her FWB a secret? She does not respect you my friend.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (25 August 2011): Two simple questions:1. Would you ever want your wife to be a reclusive, clinically depressed woman who finds every day she spends with you a struggle? I'd guess, No. You love her, after all. Normal people don't like to make their loved ones suffer to satisfy their own egoes.2. Would you prefer to see her as a happy, outgoing, positive role model for your kids? I'd guess, Yes. I agree with other people here who've said she needs to spell it out to you where she stands before you can know where you stand - but (a) it seems like she does not know herself what she wants, and (b) throwing the "it's either him or me" kind of ultimatum at her, or conveying the impression that you'll be calling the divorce lawyer and taking her to the cleaners if she doesn't give you the answer you want to hear, isn't going to make the decision any easier. I'm quite surprised actually that nobody seems to have considered the option whereby you go to counselling first, then let her make the decision in her own time without any pressure (okay, maybe a deadline), and you support that decision once she's made it.So, for example, if after counselling she chooses the other guy, you split up, but you stay involved in the kids' lives and she can move on with you as a friend.I know several people who've been in similar situations to yours, where they've gone down this route and it's been a huge weight off their shoulders, resolving things amicably. Some have become far better parents (and much stronger friends to each other) after splitting up. My godfather and his ex, couldn't even be in the same room when they were married, it got that bad - but now he's remarried and she's remarried, they're very good friends. If the injured party in a breakup decides to take the "scorched earth" approach and burn every last bridge on his / her way out of the door, then it won't just be the other party who gets traumatized by the divorce - the kids will suffer immensely especially if they get dragged into the inevitable trap of having to take sides and of course, if you as a guy go down that route, you run the risk of a lengthy and costly custody battle because if you play the malicious game, there's no reason for her not to play it as well. So my advice is, don't listen to any egomaniac blowhard here who even hints at that being the right approach because it's a nasty, vindictive, and most of all self-destructive thing to do. Nobody ever comes out of a divorce like that, without very deep mental scars and very empty pockets. Except the lawyers, of course.
...............................
A
male
reader, Wild Thaing +, writes (25 August 2011):
I read your follow up post, and I have some observations, some of which you won't be ready to acknowledge:
1. Your marriage was built on a very destructive cycle of co-dependence.
2. You have a huge esteem and confidence problem that masquerades as reclusiveness and introversion.
3. Your moral compass is certainly not in line with a Christian view of fidelity - never mind your wife's situation.
If you truly are introverted then this is the time to break the co-dependency cycle and work on healing yourself. Make no mistake - you are damaged, less-than-whole, and need to think about your own well-being. Your wife has moved on and doesn't seem too concerned about who she hurts.
You may not believe this now but if there comes a time when you can stand on your own, people will want to be around you. Those who don't need to depend on anyone to validate their existence project a positive energy that others want to experience. I hope you can get there. Good luck and take care.
...............................
A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (25 August 2011):
 Have not read any other replies yet.. This is how my marriage ended. I loved my husband. I THOUGHT I was in love with him. I thought we were happy. Married only 6 years and no kids...I met a man who stirred my brain... I was open and honest with my husband from the beginning. I was seeing the man and yes we had a physical relationship (my marriage was an open marriage to begin with but only my husband was taking advantage of it)...In March my husband could not take it any more. we had been fighting about it and he kept telling me to choose and I kept choosing him but then he would change his mind and tell me to go to him.. and I did as long as my husband said it was ok I would go to this other man (who lived 2 hour away) finally he said I can't take it any more and I said fine and he said Pick one and I said him and he still gave me grief so I picked the other guy and my husband left and I never tried to stop himIn our case I think we both wanted out of our marriage but we couldn't bear to hurt the other and we forced our hand.she may very well be waiting for you to force her hand...
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): Intimacy and lovers are not things that one can go out and "get" outside of the marriage. Friendship, adventure, sure...but not sex. It just wont work out if you let it. She will continue to go out and get what she wants. She makes it sound like once she scratches her itch, she will come back to you and it will be like it always was...but it wont. It is forever changed. Only you can decide if you can accept this change, but if you do, you open yourself up to vulnerabilities and torture possibly for the rest of your time with her.And I echo everything said about this NOT being about your kids. Staying in an adulterous relationship for the sake of your kids never works out. You'll just waste years of your life, become more hurt, bitter and distant...and guess what...your kids will sense ALL of that. They will remember you as being distant, unloving parents rather than happy people who made the right choice. If you want to consider your kids, consider that they also sense integrity, honesty, truth and kindness. Don't try to fool them on basic priciples to create the illusion of an intact family.
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): OK, it's my question and I thought I'd respond. Thanks for all the support.The whole thing about self-confidence... Nope.I believe in the SPIRIT of the vows we took a heck of a lot more than I believe in the letter of them. The Lord doesn't care about what might've been written on a bit of paper and said aloud all those years ago; He cares about what's in our hearts in the here and now.I have never been good at meeting people socially, I can't cope in crowds. I never "dated". I never went "out on the pull". If you've ever watched Bones, I'm a bit like a male version of Temperance Brennan. This was NEVER about self-confidence; I am simply not a social animal. But, that was the deal when she first met me, quite by accident, in a hallway at university. She pursued me, not the other way round.She was very shy at the time, but not introverted the way I am - she wanted to be outgoing, but her lack of self-confidence and depression held her back. I've spent years helping her to build her self-confidence up because I knew she would never be happy as long as she couldn't bring herself to do anything except sit indoors and feel down all the time. I was overjoyed when she started to meet people. Obviously now she's met someone else who fits her newly not-depressed state of mind, not so much... But, tell me: in all seriousness, was it right for me to help her out of her depression, or should I have left her in it for my own benefit?Imagine a person who's had a very long battle to come off hard drugs, having a long term lover who's still an addict. Then imagine they meet someone who's clean.Would that person be evil if they wanted to make a fresh start with the new person rather than risk slipping back into a downward spiral with their current partner?Even if we did part our ways (which I'm certain would be in an amicable way; we are English after all, perfectly able to sort things out over a cup of tea, and neither of us do "drama"), I'm pretty certain I would never find someone else. That's nothing to do with low self-esteem; it's because I am quite a reclusive person and I wouldn't even know how to start looking. Of course, I could get lucky in a supermarket, but I wouldn't put money on it.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): WTF? Kick this b*tch to the curb. This woman has made u a cuckold and treats u like a wimp. Please please please for your ownsanity get rid of her. She is only using u but getting sex from her lover.
Confide in someone. Speak up! Do not keep quiet. She is make a mockery of u and your marriage.
I really feel your pain BUT hell, dont accept this. Be strong and get an action plan in place. Protect your finances and assets. Be wise and stategic. Let her lover pay her bills. PROTECT yourself.
LoveGirl
...............................
A
female
reader, RedAthena +, writes (24 August 2011):
 Wow, I am so sorry this is happening to you.
Your wife is playing mind games with you. She wants to have the comfort of a marriage and the comfort of a lover, but not in the same person.
She says she does not want to hurt you, but she obviously did! She is calling a man that she has sex with a "friend".
She is cheating on your and your marriage vows. She is taking advantage of you.
Do not wait to see what she will do or choose. You now know where you stand.
I would suggest that you seek out a professional counselor for yourself and a lawyer for advice. Unless your wife is willing to be faithful to you physically AND emotionally, take yourself out as an "option" in her life.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): Hi. I think if you tell her that this relationship is going to end unless she stops seeing this other guy she will stop seeing him. I think you need to be really strong and boundaried at the moment. She is committing adultery but because she has been unhappy she has gone in to a huge amount of denial around this. I know this sounds cut throat but I think you should ask her to leave as she has broken her vows. I also think that ending the relationship temporarily and making it clear to her that you cannot put up with this (who could?!) is the only way you are going to save your marriage. She sounds quite messed up, the way she has convinced herself that what she is doing is okay?If you split temporarily, on your terms, she can go off and decide what she wants. That might be that she ends up with him and misses you, or stays with you and misses him. I dont know. Some women are never happy. Whatever, you cant stay in the situation as it currently is. One thing I will say, at least she has been honest with you. What are your living situations? The reason i ask is that i see too many guys end up homeless due to relationship breakdowns due to the women being the main carer of the children and therefore she keeps the house even though it is the guy who has paid for it by working all his life. BE CAREFUL. How old are your kids? Do you both work? Who looks after the kids? Do not sign everything over to her. She has broken her vows, that is grounds for divorce. If you work can you take some time off, if your kids are little?If I was in your situation and your kids are little I would take some time off work, change the locks and tell her you are filing for divorce. She obviously thinks it's okay to be slefish, well, two can play at that game. Get as much support from family and friends and let them know what is happening; that should shatter her denial. I know this sounds really cut-throat but it sounds to me that you are quite passive and she knows this and how much you love her. I am just trying to help you save your marriage. Plenty of marriages can survive affairs. Right now Ithink you need to show her who is boss. Good luck.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): Hi. This woman is being jaw droppingly selfish and manipulative. She has said she does not love this man. And with respect, she can't love you either. So she is using two men. One for provider skills and the other for fun time/sex. She is having a great time with no regard for how this will impact on you, the marriage or your children.I think her mindset and actions have totally blown your confidence out of the water. And you are definitely in a certain amount of denial which is not uncommon. You need help to find clarity and the confidence to deal this situation properly. Her expectation that you stay where you are because she wants your skill as a provider is demeaning, emasculating and wholly unacceptable...if you could only see that. Please try some counselling or talk to someone with your best interests at heart before making any permanent decisions.
...............................
A
male
reader, Tom Obler +, writes (24 August 2011):
 Well, she has got the best of both worlds. She gets everything provided for her and then has her lover on the side. That's what is happening make no mistake.
So, you can let things carry on like this and suffer inside or you can stop this cozy arrangement for her by beginning the process of splitting up. I wouldn't put up with this.
...............................
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): so she doesn't want to leave you but she wants to continue with her FWB because she's happier with him.so you're still married.Is this what you want? of course not. You want her to not be seeing the other guy. But that's not gonna happen, she's said so herself. so again...is this what you want?I can't tell why exactly you're still in this marriage..?? I mean, if you're hoping she'll ditch the other guy, she's already said she won't. she's already said she prefers him. She's staying with you because she's getting something from this arrangement with you - financial support, help with the kids...I mean it's tough being a single parent and maybe her FWB isn't going to marry her (maybe he's also married). she's already made loud and clear though that she's happier with the other guy so where does this leave you? your options are to either have this disrespect rubbed in your face every day, or to leave her and preserve your dignity.she's manipulating you so she gets everything she wants. she gets to be fulfilled by her friend/affair-partner but also have you around to provide her with the things you have been. if you're so down trodden that you will take whatever scraps she throws your way, then I feel sorry for you and hope you can find a way to realize that you deserve more than this and instead of waiting and hoping for her to feel better about you (which may never happen), you should start to live your life for yourself because she's obviously living hers for herself.
...............................
A
male
reader, serenity80 +, writes (24 August 2011):
Amazing advice from the others. I agree that your confidence in yourself seems at an all time low, and that's totally understandable. When you noticed these two people were hitting it off, she should have removed herself from temptation, or you should have stood up and told her that the relationship was inappropriate. I think you are afraid to use the words "affair" but that is what it is.
You really are the "nice" guy and she is taking advantage of that. There is absolutely no way you can just allow this situation to carry on. You need to remember that actually, you're a great guy. If you weren't, your wife would have left you. She wants her cake and to eat it too. You need to man up about this, and take control of the situation. All relationships go through testing times, times when you don't think you can ever make it work. But when you can get through them, it makes your relationship even stronger. But first things first, if your wife wants to make your marriage work then she needs to terminate her affair and never see this other man again. And you need to be the man strong enough to know that if she won't do that, that it is not acceptable and you need to move towards a separation.
I hope you have friends you can talk to about this horrible situation. Stay strong, stand up for yourself take the bull by its horns and be the person to sort this mess out.
...............................
A
female
reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (24 August 2011):
It is an affair even though she prefers not to call it that because it eases her own guilt. Let's call a spade a spade.
Affairs are usually due to unmet needs in the marriage. The reason there are unmet needs can be many. It could be due to the other partner not investing enough, or it could be due to the first partner (the one having the affair) having emotional problems of their own which are beyond the scope of their partner to make better and which they don't know how to deal with themselves. It could be due to huge problems in the relationship which for whatever reason go unexpressed and unsolved while pressure to stay married keeps the marriage limping on despite the dissastisfaction or hurt it's causing the people in it.
you said "I can't carry on living with not knowing if she's just staying with me for convenience and/or a sense of obligation to our kids..... or if she genuinely does want to stay with me but has needs I cannot meet that she feels guilty about."
I think the reason your wife hasn't left you, is all the above you stated as possibilities. She DOES want to stay married to you. but it's probably due to negative reasons. she wants to continue the marriage because of convenience and obligation toward the kids and because she doesn't want to feel the guilt of hurting you by leaving you. (even though she doesn't seem to care about hurting you by having an affair, and maybe that's why she doesn't want to call it an affair.) And because you don't meet her needs, she wants to continue a relationship with her FWB while staying with you.
If she's made her position clear that she will not give up her affair, then I think it doesn't matter what she is really thinking of feeling about the marriage and you. Because the bottom line is that she will not give up her FWB, and if you're like most people you will probably not be emotionally OK staying married under these conditions and staying in such a marriage will continue take a toll on your mental and emotional health.
it sounds like your self esteem is very low at the moment. Instead of feeling outrage at your wife's betrayal, you feel ashamed and inadequate. Instead of feeling wronged, you seem to feel like this is an indictment on your worth. At least that's the impression I get from your post. I don't know if you've had low self esteem issues since before you found out about your wife's affair (could that be why your wife was afraid to hurt you by leaving you?), or only now as a result of it. But regardless, if you continue to stay married to her under her terms and her terms only - which is for her to continue with her FWB - it will tear down your self esteem even more.
So I think you need to stand up for yourself and not accept your wife's terms for the marriage. If you're not OK with her continuing her FWB relationship (and honestly I can't see how any partner would be), then you should not continue to stay married to her if she insists on keeping her FWB. If you want to stay married and work on the marriage, she has to be willing to work on the relationship too and that would include giving up her FWB too, but don't make your sense of self worth tied up in whether she ends her affair or not. Focus on what you can do that will be in your best interests.
...............................
A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (24 August 2011):
Odds pretty much says it all. I'll just add my echo to his words.
Your wife is using you, because you are a nice guy who has been there, who has provided, and who has stuck by her in her depression. You've also loved her more than anyone, given her kids and provided a good, stable home. For what it's worth, there are many women who would have given anything to be with someone who's as good as you.
The problem with nice guys (and I know because I'm one), is that we make easy targets for women who are users in the same way a nice girl is an easy target for crap men. I've been there. You're in the same place, deeper in fact because you've got kids and been with her for years.
Your wife knows you're a good guy who'll stand by her, no matter what happens. That's why she can do this - because she knows you'll do nothing about it.
Fortunately, like all users, she has misjudged you. Clearly you've gotten to the stage that all nice people do - you're tired of being used. And I don't blame you. She's now using you because you're a good guy and you're easy to use.
At the very least, she's having an emotional affair. So, either she breaks that off, or you leave. Make that clear to her. And follow it through, because you don't want to be one of those decent guys who can have more with a woman that cares, rather than less with a woman who doesn't.
...............................
A
female
reader, StarryEyes101 +, writes (24 August 2011):
 So she is cheating on you but it isn't an affair? She's having the best of both world's at the moment. A married woman acting like a Single one. She won't leave you 'cause she knows that the FWB is just that. If it was going somewhere I think she would leave. You seem like a genuinely good guy. You need to stand your ground and tell her how you feel about this. There is no exception for this kind of behaviour in a marriage. Some people "stay together for the kids", in this case I wouldn't. If the parents are unhappy, they'll pick up on everything.
I hope you work this out. Good luck
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): If you are old-fashioned you should insist - not ask - that she leave the marital home and initiate divorce proceedings against her and citing her as the guilty party. She has broken her marriage vows and treated you with incredible discourtesy, respect and lack of thought. You and your family deserve better.
This may knock some sense into her. She may come crawling back. Do not take her back. The pattern will only repeat later down the line. Be tough. Put you and your family first and in time find someone who really wants to be with you.
...............................
A
male
reader, Odds +, writes (24 August 2011):
 So... she's saying that you get to keep doing all the nice, husbandly things like providing for her, caring for and protecting the kids, and being faithful to her... but she gets to go out and flout your marriage vows?
"...not knowing if she's just staying with me for convenience..."
That is *precisely* what she is doing. Having her cake and eating it too.
Look, I know you've done your best to be a good husband and father, and I respect that. Where I think things have gone wrong is that you aren't being assertive enough - which I'm guessing based on the tone of your post. You write as though you feel like you've done wrong, as if you owe it to her to fix yourself. All you're missing is a few bits of knowledge - she's the one who is wrong.
For starters, here's a link to an article I put up.
http://www.dearcupid.org/question/how-to-be-attractive-a-beginners-guide-for.html
She need the same thing any woman needs - and it probably has to do with why you weren't able to help her with her depression earlier. You have already fulfilled her need for respect, care, and concern. What is left to take care of is her need to be with a virile, confident, ambitious man. She wants a man who would not put up with her nonsense. Failing to have that man in her life made her doubt her own worth and desirability.
An old-fashioned man would not have put up with even a single instance of infidelity - she'd be out on her own, now, out of his life, not even worth the effort of being mad at.
I understand that with kids in the equation, it's much harder to leave, and it's much harder to risk getting into fights with her. If that risk is too great for you, that's your call, and this behavior on her part will never end. I personally don't think that's worth it. If you want to give her another chance, lay down the law and tell her that if she wants a husband, she has to be a wife. Call her on that BS about her "just a friend" and tell her to break it off, followed by cutting off all means of communication. Give her the option of either completely submitting to rebuilding a successful relationship and marriage, or leave and take everything that you can (plus stop to tell her whole family about her infidelity while you're at it).
At no point does this mean forcing her to do anything, or yelling and fighting. It simply means stating the truth and your intended course of action, inviting her to be part of it, but only on your terms.
The same actions that restore your own dignity are also those that women love, and your wife is no exception. Whether you take her back is your business, and I wish you luck either way, but stand up straight and take command. You can do it, and you'll be happier for it.
...............................
A
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): I see it like this. She sleeps with the guy, we have problems. This has nothing to do with the kids now, it has to do with you. I would never be with a girl if I wasn't her ONE guy. She can't have the best of both worlds. Its over. You need to find someone who loves you for everything. Not someone who needs extra men. Do you want your kids to see that behavior. NO
...............................
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (24 August 2011): I don't know what FWB really mean, but she says she is no longer in love with you and I think that sums is up. So my advice to you is get out of this marriage. you are still young and you have many years still ahead so don't waste them, b/c sooner or later you will be blaming yourself as you already do by saying you are old fashioned and such and sooner or later you will lose confidance in yourself and be misrible.so leave her to her FWB and go out and find someone who will love you and be in love with you.sorry to say that but that is what I would do.
...............................
|
