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female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes: HiMe and my friend (female, both around 30) were talking about courtship. We both are a little old-fashioned und we both agreed that it should be the man pursusing the woman of his heart. But why are men so passive? We came to the coclusion that one reason could be emancipation. Women are to active and do things on their own. They don't need the help of a man. We are not against emancipation, but we would like a man pursuing us. So what can we do to facilitate man to woo as? What is the mans part and what can a woman do, without taking the initiative?Also one of us already has a relationship for nearly three years. It was her making the first step and she is the initiative part of the two. But now she regrets that she was the one how did the first step and carried on beeing such active in the relationship, because she doesn't feel pursued of her boyfriend and also found out that he wasn't ready at that time and stills seems to have doupts. It has been three years, but he doesn't seem ready for commitment...The other one of us to is single (for three month now), but is the same type of person. She also is/was too active and doesn't want to do the same mistakes again.So would you please give some advice? Big thanks! Reply to this Question
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male
reader, Mitchell1978  +, writes (21 July 2011):
After having your heart crushed a few times you just stop trying to 'woo' a woman.
A
male
reader, Music Man  +, writes (24 April 2008):
As a young guy, I just feel women today don't appreciate it. If they do, they get used to it, and thus appreciate it less. Things that become expected, deteriorate the feeling of giving, sincerity's, and caring on the part of the giver or "wooer". Try being more responsive/appreciative of the romance and you'll get more of it. Also for a time where women have been beating the drum of equality, it's easy for a man to know if a women likes the old fashioned approach or to be more in control.
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A
female
reader, Laura1318  +, writes (6 April 2008):
 Those kind of men where they exist can probably be found in the rural heartlands in the USA
Recently , there was a news article about the present trend
of city slickers going after those rural cowboys who are like perfect gentlemen of the traditional type.
In some countries , the men prefer foreign wives like those
from the Philippines,Thailand or Vietnam or Asian brides
because of their gentle and submissive culture.
It is not that men do not want to woo you and there is no lack of men .
You need to be highly visual because most men are attracted to visuals first and personality second.
Courtship is a two way traffic and if you expect too much , then you priced yourself out of the marriage market.
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A
male
reader, LazyGuy  +, writes (5 April 2008):
 Why? Because you two are now so old that the men in the age range you are dating have finally picked up on the fact it don't work.
Now be brutally honest with yourselve, don't you give the answer in your own question? Describe the men you had sex with. Their attitude, however much you might say you dislike it is what works.
You can say all you want that you want to be wooed but has it ever actually got you on your back?
We men maybe slow, but even we learn eventually. What women say they want and what actually works are two different things. Oh of course there are exceptions, but you said it yourselve, both you and your friend were in a relationship with a man who did NOT act as you wanted him to act.
The other posters all make good points as well.
Let me rephrase the question. Why should men woo you two?
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2008):
That last response is a nice way of saying It's all men's faults. It's not.
Here's another way of viewing the same points she just said:
Modern women have embraced the benefits of gender liberation, but they have not been willing to shoudler the downside. The downside is that they might need to be more willing to marry downwards than their forebearers.
Modern men have embraced women who make more than they do, but modern men are also still willing to marry downwards even though they no longer have such a strong mandate to do so.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2008): This are the original posters of the question
(the computer didn't verified us as being by the original posters of the question befor)...
Thank you all for your help!
We are not looking for men that just want to have sex. Either a man wants all of us or he gets nothing!
We would like to get pursued. We would also like your boyfriend - or one day husband maybe - to woo us.
So our question is, what can we do as individuals to make it easier for a man to court us? How can we supporting that as an individual?
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (5 April 2008):
Today's women have many doors opened to them unlike their counterparts from their mother's generations.More women are going to the universities and more women are now gainfully employed and many are earning more than the men.The traditional concept of marriage has changed with the men as the breadwinners and the women as full time housewives as an outdated concept.This role reversal have left many men befuddled as to their present roles in the modern society.Most women are brought up by the socio economic system to look for a husband who will earn higher than them and academically better qualified than them .It is deeply ingrained in them to marry upwards. Women are more discerning about their mates and it is they that decides if the relationship can progress after the first ‘hello’ stage.She would have no interest in a man if he earns less than her or academically lower than her.She is looking for a mate who is stronger emotionally and financially better than her.She needs someone who can take good care of her and her children.A man may marry a young thing and a sex object while a women would not marry a man just for the sake of marriage and who would follow her like a kept poodle.The modern women have achieved success in many fields but as they climbed higher in the social strata, they found that there were a shortage of qualified available men for them to choose from and as a result , many remained single .It is not the lack of available men but the men are simply intimidated by the career women who earns more than them and to the men , it seems like they are expensive maintenance properties which they can ill afford .The moment they find out the truth, they will scoot as fast as their feet can carry them.In order for them to find a man , some had no choice but to hide their achievements and their incomes for fear of intimidating the men.I think , the real reason why some of the high flying women cannot find a man is their character and attitude towards men.They are not able to accept the traditional womens roles in the society anymore .These highly educated , emancipated, liberal and modern women have redefined the womens new role.Men are becoming more effeminate and are retreating from the onslaught of women into their last remaining men's only bastion.Women are more intelligent, able to multi task , more ambitious and lives longer than men.But with their emancipations , they have developed characteristics like the men and are no more like those gentle and submissive women of yesteryears.The modern women wants to be treated as an equal to men in every aspects.In order to attract the men , the women would have to revert back to the traditional roles and make the men feel like a man.The women have progressed by leaps and bounds but the men are still stuck in the dark ages.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (5 April 2008): When I hear women say this kind of stuff, I just laugh.
MEN JUST WANT MAXIMUM SEX FOR MINIMUM WORK!!! What part of this don't women understand? Men don't have sexual fantasies about waiting hand & foot on a woman who leaves them for a jerk, they have fantasies about BEING THE JERK!
Why do women think they can reward being a jerk and punish being a nice guy, and then expect to get more nice guys in the world?
Are women just this stupid??
Are they in denial about what really works on them??
What??
Somebody tell me!
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A
male
reader, Yos +, writes (3 April 2008):
 Good question. I think there are several factors, here's my opinion. I should warn you in advance that you may find some of it a bit offensive. Please know that that is not my intention, but I am being hones about my interpretation:
1. Emancipation
"Emancipation is a factor", but perhaps not in the way you meant it. For the last 40 or so years, it has become increasingly socially acceptable for women to be 'sexual'. Whilst there are certainly benefits to this, it has also has had a direct effect: there has been less and less need for men to be sexually assertive. After all, if the women chase you willingly, why chase them?
This is a generalization of course, but it has certainly reduced the willingness of many men to invest time in courtship. The rationale is 'why waste my time when there are so many other simpler / easier options out there?'. Why go after the high-hanging fruit when there are plenty of low-hanging ones within reach?
I think in this sense feminism may have done itself a disservice by basically creating an 'arms race' to the bottom. It's a bit like a bidding war (effort / versus reward), with women offering themselves for less and less effort (on the part of the man) and consequently forcing other women to do the same. Deflation.
2. Media
The media and the internet have had an effect also. Humans don't really differentiate (on a subconscious level) between being surrounded by real people and being surrounded by images of people. We live in a society that decorates its bus stops with pictures of 18 year olds girls in underwear, and endlessly parades impossibly beautiful women on tv, and in movies. This creates the false impression that there are large numbers of these girls out there, available.
The effect is to create what you could call an 'abundance'... with so much to choose from, why make an effort to chase the out of reach?
I must stress that this is happening subconsciously, on a rational level we know this isn't the case but it influences our behaviour nonetheless. As men we know these women on the screen and in magazines and online are not really available to us, but we do our mental calculations as if they were.
Meanwhile women exposed to this media environment are under pressure to compete with these images, and as a result feel compelled to be available for less effort. It's a double whammy. Increased supply and decreased demand at the same time.
The internet has made this effect much more powerful when it comes to sex. The big change has been to provide instant availability of pornography in private to any guy, with no embarrassment attached. Any guy can masturbate to an endless supply of exactly the kind of girl he likes (neatly categorized and labelled), whenever he likes. This ability to instantly satisfy your sexual urge diminishes the amount of effort you are willing to put in to try to do it with a 'real woman'. Certainly it's not the same thing! But it has an effect. I've heard many many men say things along the lines of "Oh I can't be bothered to flirt with her, I'll just go jerk off to porn when I get home". It really happens. And that's just the guys who are prepared to admit to it.
- Age
Lastly, I think age is a factor. Consider the some of the most basic factors that effect sexual appeal:
Men: confidence, strength, power, wealth, ability to provide.
Women: fertility, looks, nurturing ability.
Notice that the male factors mostly increase with age (up to a point), whilst the female decrease.
This is very noticeable looking at the differences between dating in your twenties and dating in your thirties, for each sex.
In your twenties, the girls hold more of the cards. They are young and 'nubile', whilst the guys are at the beginnings of their careers and are still working towards things like wealth, power and subsequently confidence. The girls too are less confident, making them an 'easier target' (sorry to say but men factor this in), and are not thinking about kids, making them a lot less serious a proposition to have a relationship with. All appealing.
But in your thirties, the tables change. At that point women are often thinking of settling down and 'finding the one', because the biological clock is ticking. Guys in their thirties know this, and it can be intimidating. At the same time, the women are beginning to age and become consequently gradually less sexually appealing. Meanwhile the guys are more experienced, make more money, and have gained more confidence, generally increasing their sexual appeal compared to their twenties. The tables have turned.
That's it.
I apologize if you find what i wrote offensive. As I said at the start, that's not my intention. Rather I'm putting out what you could call some rather blunt facts (cultural and biological) that I think are part of the answer you're looking for. Please bear in mind I'm not saying any of this is a good thing, by and large I think it's bad.
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A
male
reader, Jamer70  +, writes (3 April 2008):
 Ill agree with whats been said, im pretty young and have tried to act like a gentleman. Ive opened doors for a girl and when i did i was called sexist and i shouldnt by some and others call me rude when i dont open the door for them. Some people have called old courting rituals sexist and some want it back. Truthly how are some men suppose to tell how to act when so many women have different views on dating?
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A
female
reader, GeorgiaGirl84 +, writes (3 April 2008):
 I don't want to stereotype, but wonder if there's a cultural difference. I live in the South where things are still very old fashioned. I'm use to the southern gentleman. I expect a man to open the car door for me because that's how I was raised. For the most part, the South still has very specific gender roles when it comes to dating.
I have dated guys from up North and they are in a very different league. Our expectations were completely different when it came to dating. Regardless of location, it's probably all in the way you're raised.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 April 2008): Its simple, the more you chase a woman the less they want you. Almost like ,i know i can have him so theres no challange(so i don't want him). Make yourself unavailable and then the woman wants you. There is thousands of guys just like me that give up wooing, because we see guys who ain't trying get the girl.
Good luck
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (3 April 2008): AHHHHHH....a very good question!
One reason is because there are now laws called "STALKING"
and persuing a woman romantically can get you brought up in court on charges....who the fuck wants to be considered and labeled as a 'stalker'?
I have over 50 friends whom had this happen to them in the last 25 years. The emancipation of women has nothing to do with it in my circle of friends. All of us are not hopeless romantics, but we are from the era of being romantic. Many women are not into receiving flowers and candies....they say it is childish, old fashion and out of style. They seem to like the ruff-neck type of dudes who don't care about anything. We live in a mixed up society and that is world wide. So sad for us wanna be Romeo's.
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A
male
reader, Smiffy  +, writes (3 April 2008):
 Hi...I have to agree with Namatjira...unfortunatly females these days just dont seem to appriciate us being a "gentleman" at all....for example...the other day I held a door open for a young lady entering a shop...the look I got was one of digust...i.e. what was I after...nothing I might add...just being a gentlemen, so then i wont bother the next time and you all get the wrong impression, if a man does something nice, say thankyou...we dont want to rush you too bed...we are just being a gentleman...the way my parents brought me up to be.....women these days seem to enjoy being treated terribly..or thats how it seems to me...I read and see women in terrible relationships....they complain...BUT wont do anything about it as its "exciting"...
Being a firefighter I see many females that have been beaten by there husbands / boyfriends...but do they do anything about it no....
I enjoy "wooing"...its all part of the future relationship....there are a few of us left out here....
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (3 April 2008): Thanks for your answer!
Body language is a good point. It may also help in a relationship!
But what can I do, when I allready asked my boyfriend to court me? What else can I do, except telling him? Well you see, I think, I send the wrong signals and are much too active myself, but how can I reduce my initiative? How can I tell him to woo me without telling him? What signals do I have to give? Would it be something like, don't call him or don't tell "I love you" ...?
You said, you like to court women. We would like to know, how you do this and what singals of women are unclear to you.
Thank you very much for your answer!
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A
male
reader, Namatjira +, writes (3 April 2008):
Guys these days generally do not know where they stand. Also we are crap at reading and interpreting body language, so all the subtle nuances in the hints you give us are usually lost.
You will often find that an older guy is more likely to woo that a younger guy. Though like everything there are exceptions. If you are lucky enough to know his family, then watch how his father treats his mother because that is often a good guide.
What is essential is that you find some way of letting a guy know that you are very interested. I do not mean throw yourself at him, but make it clear you would like him to ask you out.
For the one who has the non-wooing partner - she should tell him that she likes to be courted and romanced. He may need some guidance at first but if he loves her he will soon catch on.
For the other non in a relationship, just pay attention to the body language bit and make sure you tell a guy who does ask you out that you liked his initiative and prefer guys who like to romance you.
I can speak with some authority on this as I am a guy who likes to court a woman and these days find it hard to find a woman who will admit to likeing it that way.
Good luck.
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