A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I went out on a date with a guy I met online..he is insanely hot,the pictures don't do justice,anywys when I saw him first I wasn't disappointed but I was really disappointed with his actions!Where is the chivalry these days?it seems dead to me!He dint open the car door for me,walked right past and sat in the car without even waiting for me to first sit(let alone opening the door) and it was our first meeting so I suggested we go to a food court just to be save,I wanted a subway and that place was pretty packed he dint wait for me to place an order,he placed his order, he took his order and went and sat!I brought my subway and joined him..after the meet,later that night he then texted and asked if I reached home safe we spoke a bit..he's been texting and calling me to meet him again I'v bEen avoiding him cuz its sucha turn off,but I do what to tell him what I dint like about him.how can I pass a message to him in a sarcastic or humorous way?? And not be mean to him..please help
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): I wouldn't be so final with my desision to never see a guy after first date. Give him another chance. But just one more. It could be he was not himself that first time. If it was me and it was final desision on not to ever see him again I would tell him why. But that's me, I m always blunt. Also I think it would be beneficial for him to know why,may be he will learn a trick or two how to behave among others. I usaualy don't pay this much attention to doors or cars being open for me, as I met quite a bit of jerks who actually did that. It's a nice gesture, deffinitely, but you can work on it later on. With him getting his food first, not even asking you what you want, that's a bad manner for me. Gender or no gender, you were together, order should be placed together and paid for at the same time. That was just ridiculous. He went first, so he needed to ask you what you would like. I went once on a date with a guy, who I couldn't believ it also, went to get us coffee, and then returned to a table with one cup. I asked him where is my coffee, and he said, o, I didn't know which one you want . I told him , why didn't you ask, you saw me going to take a table, you didn't see me standing in line with you, it ment I expected you to get a coffe for me, that's just a common sense. It's not even about genders, if it was my girlfriend doing the same thing with coffee, I would tell her the same.The social clumsiness gets on my nerves I have a hard time dealing with it. And your guy obviously belongs to this group of people. Oncei went out with a guy who didn't really made a big impression n me with his looks. But his manners and his behavior were so nice, that it was very comfortable to be around. By the end of the evening I was almost in love. I understand where you coming from.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): Cerebrus'Just tell him straight up that you're not going to see him again because he didn't open the car door for you. That's pretty hilarious on its own if you ask me.''Either you haven't read my entire post or your just trying to make a point here!first off you can't call me superficial for wanting basic things!its a long line wouldn't you want a friend to wait with you rather than ditch you and just order food and leave?more than chivalry its manners!forget the paying my dinner part,even if he had offered I would never let him pay,I went out on a date with a french guy 8 months ago and he actually did most of the things I mentioned but I coudlnt feel the connection and I dint really continue with the dates but I do think he was well mannered and knows how to treat a woman!!so cerebrus hear me out since you definitely have a problem in doing that,being well mannered is one among the many traits I look in a guy!and the criteria's I have that's my choice you are noone to say if that makes me superficial!and your fiancee doesn't like if you offer to open the door,may be your that "cold' she wouldn't even expect you to do that!since it was so cold there,y did you have to make that extra effort,according to you,women should be treated as equal she would work her way thru the office and make her own cup of tea,she dint need you to do it!!please cerebrus stop contadicting your statements everyone likes to be treated nicely,everyone wants a guy to be attentive!my demands are not out of the way!!and all those incidents you mentioned that happened in india,gives you no right to assume how india is..cuz I have heard of so many other places where similar events have happened!austria had many cases were a father raped his own child,so should I just say 'austria' is all about 'incest' relationship!what I noticed about you is you judge people,your here to give advise not judge people,cuz you are in no position to do that..
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A
female
reader, cute angel  +, writes (26 March 2013):
 I agree with cindy cares,cerebrus is being very unjust to OP!
You can't go on record and write off OP as superficial and demanding..
Every person has certain things she or he looks out for in a person that doesn't make them demanding at all..!
Suppose a guy prefers dating blondes to brunnettes who are we to tell anything to him,that's his personal choice..so OP here has certain things she looks for!
Honestly OP even I would be disappointed if a guy just left me in a subway line waiting,I would atleast expect him to stand next to him and talk rather than just leave and take his seat!certain woman don't like men opening doors so that's their choice!!Op finds such things a 'turn' off and she's allowed to without calling her demanding or superifical..
OP I'd say go out on a few more dates with him and if you find him obnoxious then you can call it off!'Dating' is getting to know the person ,your not in a relationship yet so don't feel pressured! Good luck OP
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): I say give the guy another chance. Maybe he really liked you and was extremely nervous and just got it all wrong. In time you will know if he's a complete idiot. If he treated you well otherwise give him that chance on a real date.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused  +, writes (26 March 2013):
 my husband helps me on with my coat. he holds doors for me although not car doors.... he helps me up out of my chair... folks Laugh at us thinking he's being overly solicitous of me... and yet they don't know it's due to a bad back.
Sometimes I can get up without his help and I'll wave him off...
IF you want a man to do these things your responsibility is to tell him. Many men are raised now to treat women as equals and that means not holding doors or such for them. But I think his actions are not about chivalry but rather he's just not all that attuned to how to treat others properly.
here at my office women are allowed on and off of the elevators before the men... it's weird in that it's not usually what happens in real life most of the time any more but there was a time it was expected. Now here at work if guy gets off the elevator before the ladies, he gets yelled at by the other guys... and as a lady I often tell the men "thank you please go first" due to how slowly i have to move.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): ive had the problem in the past that I have acted in a way that's gentlemanly and polite and opened car doors for a date and so on and been viewed with "suspicion". As though behaving as a true old fashioned gent is, to some women at least, a sign of a man who has an ulterior motive. Ive found this very hurtful. Ive seen "laddish" blokes approach a woman with the sort of "alright babes!" attitude and the woman has responded positively, as if they "expect" that kind of behaviour in man. Ive then seen polite gentleman types approach the same women in a more polite and courteous way and been treated by the woman as if they are something they have trodden in as if they are "acting" like a true gent to trick her or something.When I was young I made love to a woman and tried really hard to please, ask her what she would like, and spent a lot of time doing everything I could possible think of to be attentive, loving and pleasing. IN response my then partner snapped "why the f*** are you doing this? your a f*****g bloke! blokes wanna stick it in, do the job and pull it out so why you acting like a queer?" The point im making is that men get very mixed messages as to how one should behave. Some women think its ignorant of a man not to offer her a coat if the weather changes or open a car door for them, others think its an insult. Trying to read someone in this situation and find a middle ground can be very hard, although in this particular instance the OP is right to be disappointed.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): "Come on, Cerberus, don't tell me that you have never helped your girlfriend off her coat"
Of course I do those things the difference is she doesn't expect those things from me or judge me negatively if I don't think of those things and she also does those things for me too. If I walked away to the bathroom while my fiancée struggled with her coat, she's not going to give me shit for not noticing she needed help. That's a major difference, the OP sounds like she'd be a nightmare if I didn't read her mind and know exactly what she wants every second because she'll look down on me for not doing what she expects me to. Why is it that women are the only ones who need to be shown kindness on the first date? What did she do to display that she too will do things for him?
I'll never get that aspect, not all guys want to be a woman's servant in life. Not all of us want a woman who can't do things for herself and lots of us really don't like the idea of a woman who is demanding, so what does it say about a woman who will not see you again because you didn't think to open the door for her? That tells me she's too demanding.
But it's just personal opinion, there is no right or wrong and I didn't mean to make it sound like I was putting down the OP, her opinion is this guy is a loser who doesn't know how to treat women, my opinion is she's demanding. But she'll find plenty of guys willing to play that role for her.
Look she is free to see this whatever way she wants, if this is more important to her than finding out whether the guy really is just thoughtless or whether he just doesn't buy into social custom is her choice.
I mean it's snowing here in Ireland now. My fiancée went to work with only a light jacket and she has to do a good bit of walking today, so without asking I went home on my lunch break, got her bigger jacket and uggs, and got two cups of coffee and just showed up at her office. If I see any sign or hint that I can do something to help her out in any way I will because she's my woman. But I'll be fucked if I'll hold the door open for her when she can herself, out of some sense of gender entitlement. She'd think I was fool to anyway, she doesn't want special treatment because she's a woman and I'm a man, she wants to earn that herself and she does so on a daily basis by being just as considerate to me. The only time I do hold the door is if she's wearing uncomfortable heels, or she just had her nails done and the handle is awkward.
Look India's a massive country with so many variations of culture it would be impossible for me judge what's social norm there. I know that in Bengal for instance widows are kicked out of the community because they're useless, I know some people consider even looking at those women as bad luck. I know in other parts women are sold, arranged marriage is the norm, I know that it's normal a lot of places there for ten year old girls to be married off, I know that girls are seen as very undesirable to have as children and are often aborted because of that, but I also know that in cosmopolitan city areas they're almost exactly like the west and all that I listed isn't the norm there.
Women in India are still struggling very hard to change the attitudes of men towards them, to no treat them as property and to respect them as equals perfectly capable of doing everything a man can do. how are Indian men going to change their attitudes when women act like they can't even open a door on their own? You know, that's conflicting signals. I'm equal but I can't open doors, I can't take care of myself I need you to. But then again maybe the OP wants to be the kind of woman who is not independent and wants to be taken care of. I don't know her so I can't say.
I'll conclude with this though. I don't agree with the OP's reasons I think they're narrow-minded and short sighted, but I don't she's wrong to have her own conditions or expectations, it's her life, I'm really not judging her. I just will never get how anyone finds it important. I may sound like it's important to me the way I speak about it but really it's not, I just don't get how women think they can judge a guy based on that alone as a dealbreaker, they may well be missing out on a very loyal, generous and loving guy for one little thing on the first date. I just think it's not an efficient way of dating.
I still think she should just tell him honestly why she doesn't want to see him again. It's nice to know as a guy where you went wrong. Plus it opens the door for an explanation on his part, maybe he was just really tired that day and zoned out, maybe he was having a bad day and just wasn't thinking straight, maybe he was so nervous that things didn't come to mind. He could very well be like this as a guy, but she'll never know because she only judges him based on one meeting. I believe it's not a good enough reason to not see if she's wrong about him and go on another date.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (26 March 2013):
 Cerberus, I think you are being unjust with the OP. First, she's from India, it is a more conservative, traditional society,not exactly the poster country for women's lib, for all we know minor social things are more important there.
Second, if we call it " chivalry " it sounds something funny and outdated that reeks of eighteenth century, call it with a modern name , like " being attentive " or " nurturing " or such, and I bet it's something you do too, without even noticing. Come on, Cerberus, don't tell me that you have never helped your girlfriend off her coat , even if she's got good arms. Or saved her a long boring queue at Mac Donald, telling her , what are you gonna have, I'll go order . Don't tell me that she's never come in from the rain or the cold and you 'd never told her, your hands are freezing, sit down and I'll make you some hot coffee or tea . I am sure she knows how to make tea, and I am sure you did not feel like her servant . Why ? because you LIKE the girl, and she may be your equal, physically mentally and socially, but you still have attentions for her , spontaneous attentions that you WANT to have. When you like somebody, you want to be nice to them ( And it goes both ways, agreed )
I think that what the OP here has picked up and it has bothered her , is not that much any specific etiquette blunder, but a general chevalier ( not chivalrous :) " I am not that much into you " attitude .
Maybe she did not expect to be babied or served, but she would have liked of course to make an impression on her date, and his casual demeanour makes her think it did not happen, hence the disappointment.
Anyway OP, if you are sure you don't want to go out with him anymore, don't string him along, but do not tell him that's because his manners weren't refined enough- that would be... very bad manners :).
I think that if all in all you liked the guy, you should give him a chance and go on a couple more dates with him, before crossing him off. He may have been nervous, have you thought about it, ? first dates are weird. Or he may have grown up in a different way than you , and have no idea of what you expected. If you get more friendly, more comfortable with each other, you could tell him , in a non sarcastic , non confrontational way- I feel a bit taken aback when you do X, I am not that used to it... but I really like when a guy does Y ... and see what he does.
If he still acts boorish, or anyway in a way you can't stomach, then so be it, you are not suitable. But shooting him down at the first date because he did not open the car door for you, it's a bit rushed, see what's he all about first.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): Just tell him straight up that you're not going to see him again because he didn't open the car door for you. That's pretty hilarious on its own if you ask me.
OP chivalry is dead because there are no ladies anymore. Is it lady-like to dump a guy because he wouldn't hold a door open for you? Not in my book it isn't, a lady is one who acts with grace, a lady will look deeper into a person and not judge them unworthy based on their willingness to act like you're unable to do anything for yourself. OP a lady will hold the door open for us.
You need to state more clearly that you want a knight in shining armour or a "guy who knows how to be gentleman" on your profile. Otherwise this can happen again. We're raised these days to treat you as equals OP, not as our property so more and more of us want a woman who treats us as equals too not like servants.
Just tell him straight up that how he acted on your date didn't stroke your ego enough or make you feel special enough to want to see him again. He'll get the message and you may actually help him improve his dating style.
Guess what I'd do though, I'd tell him what I thought of the first date and that I thought it was a poor effort and why and I'd give him a chance to redeem himself because guess what OP, he may actually be a lovely guy who may make a lovely partner but just doesn't do the whole dating/chivalry thing well. If you can't get over this minor social custom, then honestly OP he's better off not continuing to see you, because the superficial is too important to you.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): Sorry about your experience, but it's true women these days are sometimes offended for some reason when the door is opened for them. I find some doors very heavy, and I don't mind itto be opened for me. I don't understand what's the big deal with these women.
Also, some women prefer to pay their check especially when they don't like a guy, and know this is their last date with him.
It's not even chivalry, it's just bad manners. Even if I go out with my friend, I m not going just to get my food, I will order for both of us, and may be even pay, and then she can pay me back.
I don't think you should just cross this guy out though. Some guys are clueless, especially younger guys who grew up in this equality age, when they simply were raised in a world where women act very independent, and they don't know any better. May be if you tell him, he ll start acting in a more chivalry manner
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reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2013): he sounds very ignorant...looks and a hot body don't equal a nice mind im afraid. Chivalry is going the same was as manners in general im sorry to say. To be fair though I went on a date with a woman and opened a door for her and she snapped "I can open a door myself thank you!" men do get a lot of mixed messages about how to behave on a date now. Some women ive met feel chivalry is "sexist" (as in the example above where the women was clearly "insulted" that I might think she couldn't open her door without a male doing the job for her which was obviously not the case). Its also not exclusively a male trait - ive had a date with a woman I met online and she spat onto the pavement two minutes after meeting with me. LOLYou'll find someone nice im sure.
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