A
male
age
30-35,
*ntPain
writes:Easy one, when do girls start to mature and stop messing nice guys like me around?I only ever seem to get "friendzoned" or they lead me on for a few weeks then have the whole "im a screw up, you deserve better" talk....seriously, it's ridiculous and makes your self esteem get lower and lower. It also makes nices guys like me more and more scared of showing they like someone for fear of getting hurt again.When does this end as I'm now 20, I know I'm still young but surely I'm getting to an age where it starts to get past this immature rubbish?
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male
reader, JustHelpinAgain  +, writes (11 October 2012):
Its tough for the Mr Nice Guy I am afraid. As already said, you are meeting the wrong girls. Or maybe dont be afraid to talk with women a bit older. Good luck.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 October 2012): It seems like most women nowadays don't really grow up until their mid to late twenties. I'm 24, and I've noticed more and more the younger women around me are so much worse about chasing "bad boys" than women my age did when I was under 20. My only suggestion is go for a type of woman you don't normally go for. For example, if you are only pursuing the high maintenance, "hot" women, you need to stop doing that. They are the least mature of any type of woman. They're the ones who get older and struggle to get a nice guy when they finally want one, because all the nice guys their age are either taken by then, or simply don't want to be with a woman who has had so many sex partners.I'll never understand WHY women pursue bad boys so much, wish I had a good answer for you on that. Maybe it's like a challenge for them to see if they can change them. Can you tell me why nice guys pursue such promiscuous women? Isn't that just as big of a waste of time as a woman trying to get a commitment out of a bad boy?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2012): Did you ever in those few weeks of flirting and meeting up, actually ask her out on a proper date?
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2012): A lot of girls your age don't want to settle down yet, they're only young so they probably want to play the field a bit before settling down. From what I gather, its when women approach 30 they begin to think about settling down and starting a family with someone. I imagine guys with a similar outlook on life would be more appealing to girls of your age, than someone who is ready to give up their youth and settle down so soon in life. What they tell you and what they really want, are two different things. They like the idea of finding "Mr perfect" and having the perfect life, but they don't necessarily want it NOW... In my opinion.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (10 October 2012):
 "I don't just rush into relationships"
Is it possible that you're too slow? You're not rushing into relationships, but are you at all entering any relationships? I know the turtle won the race, but in the game of finding a girlfriend (or for women: boyfriend), slow doesn't get you to the finish line more often than you win the lottery.
By the time you make your moves, if you're too slow, the woman will have already thought you aren't interested in her, and moves on. If you come off as "just a friend" from the onset, then she'll think you're not interested in more. And then you'll be stuck in a situation you created yourself.
I don't think the article was meant to say "grow a pair". It was more about defining what really is a "nice guy" and acknowledging that men and women aren't stereotypes, and that the "women like bad boys" idea is a social clishe that isn't really true. In other words: if you don't have luck with relationships it isn't because you're nice, or that you should stop being nice. It's got to do with something else. And my guess is: you're not flirting enough or showing women that you're actually interested in them.
And you got to stop making friends with women who you want more from. If they're not interested in you, cut your losses and move on. No need to stick around for the friendship.
"she replies that she likes me but we need to know each better", that's a line which actually means "I'm not that interested in you". She doesn't need to know you better, she needs to find you attractive. And, obviously, she doesn't find you attractive. And by attractive I don't mean she thinks you're ugly or a bad person, you're just not what she's interested in. If a girl tells you that then give her a chance to prove her point by asking her out on a date, or leave it and try your luck with someone else. Also, if a girl talks to you about someone else she likes she's immedeately not girlfriend material. Just cut her out. A girl knows when she likes a guy, and she wouldn't start talking about other men she's crushing on or sleeping with if she's interested in YOU (oh yes, some say women do that to make men jealous, but only the IMMATURE ones do that, so cut her out regardless).
Good luck finding the mature ones, but here's a hint: look after someone who is honest. Someone who can be bluntly honest, and who wont feed you lines because she's afraid to tell you the truth.
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A
male
reader, AntPain +, writes (10 October 2012):
AntPain is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell that was a longwinded answer for basically saying "grow a pair"...by nice I mean that I don't just rush into relationships, that I'm respectful and actually make an effort unlike A LOT of guys my age.By leading on, I'll give a prime example, I have been talking to a girl for a few weeks, flirting, talking everyday, meeting up, she THEN decides to tell me she's sleeping with someone...which is fine, we're not together. But when I ask her whether we're staying friends or something could happen, she replies that she likes me but we need to know each better and that her and this other guy have stopped. Proceeds three days later to starting dating someone else.This is a similar story with 90% of girl I talk. Either that or they give me a story how I'm so nice, and they're so bad for me that they don't want to hurt me later on a relationship.I'm not complaining about women as I know there are perfectly mature girls my age and im not whining as I know being single is fine. All I was simply asking is if theres an age girls stop being immature not...why does no-one love me? jeeez
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A
female
reader, shrodingerscat  +, writes (10 October 2012):
 There is no such thing as the "friendzone".Women are allowed to have platonic male friends. Women are not vending machines that give you sex when you put enough "Nice Guy" coins into us. You have to be more than just "nice" in order to get a relationship.I cannot take credit for the following information I am about to give you, as it was written by my friend Lady_Air on another website.I hear over and over again how hard done by "nice guys" are. How women always go for assholes. How women won't give men who treat them decently the time of day. How the only way to get a woman is to abuse her, and the only way to keep a woman is to keep abusing her. How women don't appreciate honesty, loyalty, consideration, respect, etc.These complaints are coming from the "nice guys," of course.The first thing I'd like to point out is the biases in perception occurring here: confirmation bias, for example, where people choose information that supports their belief. Every time a "nice guy" hears about a woman with a man who treats her poorly it "proves" their point. All the women who are NOT with a man who treats them badly don't register. Plus, people don't complain about being treated well, so you don't hear about it. There are all kinds of information selection and perception biases going on that most people aren't even aware of. (Everyone has them, by the way; look up "full moon fallacy" for example.) Any time you hear of a behavioural stereotype based on something like gender or race, you're probably dealing with cognitive errors.Secondly, in my own experience, these claims aren't being made by happy men in loving relationships-- they're being made by unhappy men in bad relationships or no relationships. There's an emotional motivation to find fault with the other. A man sees a woman choosing someone else-- someone who in the unselected male's opinion is not a "nice guy"-- and feels rejection and resentment. It's human nature to want to avoid feeling unwanted; it's scapegoating to claim that the selection was based on some inherent fault or flaw on the part of the selector.There's also a lot of gender tension because the perception is that women control the sex-- it's up to the woman to say 'yes' or 'no' because it's assumed the man's default answer is always 'yes.' That's not true, of course; not every man has pre-agreed to have sex with anyone who wants to. But it is a prevalent gender stereotype, and it's inevitable that those who are perceived to be in control will be blamed for the existing conditions. If a man isn't getting any, it's because a woman won't 'give' it to him. There's a lot of anger and resentment on the part of men as a result; from a woman's perspective, it's terrifying. I don't think all the "nice guys" out there really get that: the whole issue of entitlement, anger, and misogyny that women have to deal with on a regular basis. I've had more "nice guys" react with hostility and emotional violence because I wouldn't give them what they thought I 'owed' them (generally because they said something 'nice' to me and I didn't immediately flop onto my back and spread for them) than guys who started out nasty right off the bat. Even a polite "no thank you" has generated, on more than one occasion, a "fuck you, bitch" response. From "nice guys."I'm sure there are a lot of nice guys out there saying, "well. I would never respond that way," but what they're missing is that when they claim women want to be treated poorly because a woman doesn't feel obligated to give it up just because someone is being "nice" that's exactly what they're saying: fuck you, bitch.And then there's the whole definition of "nice." Nice has got to be the worst word in the world for actually describing anything. Does nice mean polite? Does it mean chivalrous? Does it mean just not beating and raping someone? All these "nice guys" who are complaining-- do they even know what they mean by "nice?" Or is it just an easy default? A guy who insists on opening the door and pulling out my chair for me may think he's being "nice," but I don't see it that way if he also dismisses my intellect and my opinion, which is what a lot of so-called "chivalry" can amount to. Let me open my own damn door and treat me like an intellectual equal and I'll personally consider that a hell of a lot closer to my definition of "nice."The problems are endless.But it's scary. It's frightening to live in an environment where others feel entitled and "owed." It's frightening to hear all these "nice guys" talk with resentment and contempt about how a woman only wants to be treated badly. It's frightening to answer someone politely and have them respond with anger or petulance because "no" is not a permissible answer. It's especially frightening to be on a site like Fetlife, where one's sexuality is front and centre, and all the vulnerability that goes with it, with that environment of hostility. It's frightening to live in a blame-the-victim culture when one IS the victim. And sorry, nice guys, but when a woman is abused SHE is the victim, not you.Personally, I think as soon as a "nice guy" starts complaining that women won't give him what he wants because he treats them like real human beings, he has fundamentally contradicted himself; when he states, out of resentment and frustration, that all women want to be treated badly, he stops being a "nice guy" and starts being a misogynist.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (10 October 2012): What does leading you on mean? Them being nice to you? Being a friend to you?Maybe you shouldn't be friends with women you don't actually want to be friends with.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (10 October 2012):
I've come to the conclusion that men aren't mature until past 25 years of age. And they say women mature faster than men, so I will place my bet at 23 years of age for women.
Tough luck, you've still got some years ahead of you with meeting more immature girls. Look on the bright side: all these crappy experiences make you mature faster! So in time, you'll be better experienced with picking out girls who are mature, and knowing to avoid the immature ones. Because even though my fairly simple deduction shows girls don't mature until 23 years of age, there are still exceptions out there. There's bound to be at least a few mature girls your age.
Btw, what do you mean by "nice"?
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