A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I am in awe at the way women let me treat them and I just don't get it. Ill see a girl I like and treat her like complete garabage but she still chases after me so I continue to do it because it works every time but I've had enough, I just don't get the logic behind it almost to the point where I'm upset. My friend Todd he's a cool guy but he's not so great with the ladies. I tell him to treat them like trash because that's what they like, every player knows that but he refuses to. I've seen girls walk all over him, use him, cheat on him, make a fool out of him, try to get with me behind his back and the list goes on but for what? Because he's decent? Because he respects women? He's shy? WHAT is it? I just can't wrap my head around it! The more I treat women like rubbish the easier it is to get them and don't go telling me "Only certain girls do that" because I'm sick and tired of hearing girls say that right before I sleep with them.The more women do it the more dumb I think they are and the more dumb I think they are the less I respect them. They just come off as pretty dissapointing. Why is it when I say "Go away you're annoying" or "You're fat and ugly, I would never be a relationship with you" or "Can't you see me talking? Would you shut up." they just giggle or hit me on the shoulder or cry but come running back in my direction the next day.I decided to stop treating women nicely since I was 13 because being nice and respectful didn't have an effect on the girls I like. I'm 22 now and I treat my mom the same way and she chase after me more than my siblings always trying to please me and give me things and the more I treat her like that the more she responds to me than my siblings who are respectful they even hate me a little because of it.The main reason I'm here is because of Todd, he asked why women like being treated like that and I couldn't answer him I just knew it works. I dont want any advice about me and why I'm the way I am. I just would like some ladies, (men, if they have something relevant) to tell me what goes through your head when you let go of a great good but let a jerk like me, which I know I am and quite proud off walk all over you. Its funny and stupid at the same time but please shed some light on the topic for us both.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 June 2012): this guy is right...ive always had bad luck with female's. i could be wrong but im pretty sure its because i treat them with respect. at the age of 30 i had been with 5 diff women. i was sick and tired of being treated like crap. so i put my game face on and pretended to be a jerk. i slept with more hot chicks in the first 3 months of being a jerk than i did my whole combined previouse 30 years of being a gentelman. only problem is im not really a jerk and now im in love with a girl who is pushing me away because i cant not respect her. i know the only way to keep her is to treat her like dirt. i just cant bring myself to do it annymore. now i have to pay for the last 3 months of fun with a lifetime of sorrow. i wish i was a heartless prick. life would be so much easyier
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2011): Oh, I feel so sorry for you. One day, when your looks go and all the girls you treated like crap have moved on after realizing that they deserve better than your abuse, you will end up all alone.
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male
reader, Odds +, writes (30 December 2011):
 When it comes to men, chicks value confidence, extroversion, social savvy, interpersonal dominance, and love of one's self. Or, depending on how you want to phrase it, narcissism, influence, manipulativeness, controlling behavior, and mild sociopathy. Google "Dark Triad" for a better description of these traits - none of this is new.
What is new is remembering that women do value respect, kindness, and all that jazz, but most of them value it *less* than they value those other traits. Somewhere along the line, men today grew into a sharp split between ones who showed the first set of traits (jerks) and the second (nice guys). Given the choice between what they value most and what they value somewhat less, women are (quite rationally) choosing what they value more. Some of the lucky ones get both in the same guy, but that's not exactly common. Think about your nice-guy friend: would you describe him as confident, outgoing, or socially dominant? Or is he more considerate of others, more quiet, more selfless?
Throw judgment into the mix. People hate to be judged, though I think women hate it much more than men. Men with or without morals can make women feel judged, but men without morals are easier to appease, at least temporarily. Look at the typical bad boy - he can get mad at a woman, make her feel judged, then feel happy with her again after she pleases him in some way. It's her judgment escape clause. Look at a guy like me - I judge people pretty harshly, and don't easily allow someone out of it, so without an escape clause, women who feel judged find somewhere else to be (which they, of course, have every right to do).
This is normal female behavior, and their desires don't change with age - only the amount of interest they get from the bad boys they love. It's admittedly worse with girls who have not had good role models growing up, for whatever reason, but it's still present in most women. Most women will deny this until the day they die, but as you've noticed, results speak for themselves: denying it is about as believable as a man who says he doesn't care about looks.
I think you would continue to see success with women even if you were more respectful, if you could retain your own brand of confidence and extroversion. That's a tough balancing act, and I'm certainly not able to claim I've mastered it.
The real trick would be teaching and helping decent young men to develop the confidence and social savvy to be attractive without having to treat women like crap - and teaching young women not to compromise on disrespect even if the guy is attractive. Call me a pessimist, but I don't think that's likely to happen on any large scale in my lifetime. Best thing you can do for your mate is to convince him that he can retain his morals but still learn to be more outgoing and confident - especially focus on teaching him that women aren't fragile glass angels, they're adults just like him, and he can actually afford to offend once in a while, or to make fair demands (such as not cheating on him, or not disrespecting him in public).
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2011): women go for you because they have low self esteem and unresolved issues that make them messed up. they go for you because they don't know that there are better guys out there, they think you are all there is. Women who don't have low self esteem dont' even give you a second look so you don't have a chance to interact with them. that's why all your experiences with women are of the first kind.
conversely your friend Todd gets walked all over by female versions of you because he has low self esteem and therefore gravitates only toward women who are jerks.
your mother gives you more attention when you're a jerk because she thinks there's something wrong with you and you need keeping an eye on or because she thinks she made a big mistake in raising you for you to turn out like this and is desperately trying to undo her mistake whatever it is.
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female
reader, Shadow Rose +, writes (30 December 2011):
 Some girls are just stupid like that I guess.But there are girls that dont like that. I am one of those girls. I'd honestly kick you in the balls if you said any of that garbage to me. Usually younger women tend to like to do stupid things like follow a guy who treats her like shit, probably because they think it's the best they can get. And because that's just society I guess.But I do know girls and women who only like nice guys. I have lots of friends who hate guys like you. :)Hope that helps!
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2011): From a guy old enough to be your father: Daddy Issues.Pure speculation, but seems to me determining factor is absent father, girls desperate for any type of male attention, that's why needy chicks let you treat them like rubbish because otherwise you'd be ignoring them which is even worse, also fear of being abandoned again, often blame father's absence on mother "not being able to hold on to a man" and so keep clinging even after bf dumps them. Classic line from needy chick whose loser bf just dumped her to go back to needier previous ex whom bf flat-out admitted he's just using: "Maybe I should take a break from him." Beware, that's a major problem, doormats like her won't let jerks like you just dump them and walk away, they'll latch on like barnacles to anything attached to a dick no matter how much effort you put into scraping them off. I just can't get over the endless posts from needy chicks that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about lying cheating abusive controlling deadbeat losers always ending with "I don't know what to do!"But it all comes down to self-esteem and self-worth, women who respect themselves don't let men walk all over them.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2011): Short answer to your question about why women like being treated like garbage:Many woman define their femininity and their value by how men perceive them or if they can improve a man's perception of them. Many of us have been raised to see men's happiness as something that supersedes ours. When you treat a woman like trash, she might very well see this as a challenge she feels she needs to overcome; hence she chases you. When you insult her, she interprets the insult literally and believes your displeasure stems from a deficiency in herself, not in a character trait of yours. She may try hard to please you or make you interested again for the temporary belief that she's erased the insult you've given her. Essentially, she's an approval addict. She's no different from most teenage girls. Sadly, I've seen adult women with the same behaviors and I tell myself each time is see them "god forbid I ever end up that way..."The draw back of your strategy is that you're dating someone who essentially has no idea who they are. They'd rather use you as a peg to measure themselves than figure out who they are alone. As much as I feel sorry for the women who throw themselves at you, I feel sorry for you, because you likely have no idea what it is to have intimacy with another person. I think it's particularly sad you treat your mother the same way. I don't know how her situation with her and your father stands, but I suspect she chases for your affection because terrified she's lost it...perhaps she's lonely? I give you credit for writing in this question, because it's actually an issue a lot of women have and I feel it never gets talked about. It makes me sad and disgusts me too. Call it low self-esteem or whatever you want, but I disagree with you that all women are this way.I've met guys like you before, they are confident and sometimes interesting at first, and then as soon as a conflict comes along, they put on the eau d'asshole...While I can say your honesty is attractive, I can tell you point blank if you said any of the lines you mentioned in your post to me, I'd drop your ass in a second and you'd never hear from me again...If you're actually interested in helping Todd out, I would suggest he pursue women that he's shares a common interest...whatever his interests are, be it in university, a hobby, or a sport rather than go bottom-feeding with you. I'd also tell him to give it 5 years or a decade...most women and men (hopefully you as well) outgrow mistreating each other.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2011): I don't think EVERY GIRL/WOMAN falls for your BS. It depends on how they were raised and what they were taught about their self worth, their virtue, and how they were exampled by their parents on what a TRUE, LOVING, ADULT, HEALTHY relationship is.
The thing about Serial Cheaters, Abusers, Players, Sexual Predators is they know whom to target so with this; its misleading for you to come to this forum and declare all womanhood is weak minded and infer pathetic to put up with your abuse/garbage.
So lets not generalize here and lets really look at it for what it is.
You target the low in self esteem. You are careful and don't take to rejection well so you will go out of your way to avoid the women who know they deserve better than what you offer.
Narcissists are self-absorbed and tend to be highly charming. They have a constant need for admiration and attention. They are master manipulators and feel an emotional high with each new physical conquest. They often have multiple affairs going on at the same time, although none of them know about the other because again they are very good at manipulation. A serial cheater who is a narcissist is not just dealing with a lack of self-esteem, we are talking about the individual's personality and it is a pervasive part of their lifestyle. Interestingly, they never want to divorce and will usually fight tooth and nail to stay married, although it is highly predicted that they will continue their cheating ways. Personality disorders are extremely difficult to treat.
Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2009/12/serial_cheaters_narcissists_and_sex_addicts_oh_my_tiger_woods.php#ixzz1hyVvqeLe
Narcissists are misogynists. They hold women in contempt, they loathe and fear them. They seek to torment and frustrate them (either by debasing them sexually - or by withholding sex from them). They harbor ambiguous feelings towards the sexual act.
The somatic narcissist uses sex to "conquer" and "secure" new sources of narcissistic supply. Consequently, the somatic rarely gets emotionally-involved with his "targets". His is a mechanical act, devoid of intimacy and commitment. The cerebral narcissist feels that sex is demeaning and degrading. Acting on one's sex drive is a primitive, basic, and common impulse. The cerebral narcissist convinces himself that he is above all that, endowed as he is with superior intelligence and superhuman self-control.
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1704:why-narcissists-cheat-on-their-spouses-commit-adultery-and-have-extramarital-affairs-and-liaisons&catid=99:narcissistic-personality&Itemid=2113
;)
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 December 2011): The fact is that there are many reasons people allow themselves to get treated that way. SOme have never been treated any differently and so eventhough logically they know they know they should be treated better, they simply don't think they will be. The thing is the more they get treated like that by selfish people like you, the more they come to believe that they deserve it. Fact is the way you treat people is disgusting, and your just selfish and a coward. Todd however will find someone eventually who truly loves him and will provide him with happiness, let's just hope that he doesn;t take your advice and become poisoned by your mentality about women!
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male
reader, dougbcoll +, writes (30 December 2011):
 it is my view many of the women you are meeting have very little self worth. these women are so use to meeting guy's that are only after sex with them, and to be dumped after the guy is tired of them. they may be at a point of feeling rejected, turned away, used, and heart broken to the point of doing anything to hang on too a guy. as far as todd goes he is meeting the wrong type of women ,and or the one's they are just plain out too milk him dry for what he will do for them, and then find the type of guy they are looking for.
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (30 December 2011):
 I dunno.. people wanting what they can't have and enjoying the challenge? Look at yourself and your friend for example, the women treat him like shit and he lets them as well... This is a thing that goes for both genders, some people are trash and treat others like trash... How happy does that make you btw? Others are pushovers and gullible and let themselves be hurt over and over.. Others again are nice, but firm, and continue to search for someone decent. Decent people find other decent people occasionally.
Only certain girls do do that... I really can't think of anyone being able to use and sexually take advantage of EVERYONE they meet. Even hardcore players. I'm one of the few women out there who feel I can call myself a player as well, because not only guys can play the game... You are subconsciously drawn towards the women you KNOW you have a shot at it with. You wouldn't go for women you don't think you have a chance with. And as such, naturally, when you only go for the ones you know you have a shot with and who you know will allow you to treat them poorly, then this will be the result.
Like you said, being nice and respectful didn't have an effect on "the girls you liked". So, the women you like obviously are the type that fall for men who treat them poorly... Well then you can't claim that all women want this. Only the women you have so far preferred wants this... If you are growing tired of these women then change your attitude and plying field and start fishing for different fish.
As for your main question though... Although I hate stereotyping an entire gender.. Women like this chase after a man who treats her poorly because she wants acceptance. These sorts of women are the ones who want to "change" you and make you better, to make themselves feel better. Your mother probably chases after you because she cares for you, duh. And she wants you to improve and be a better man and feel cared for by you. When you don't, she wants it even more, and it feels hopeless to not try to do a thing about it. What other option does she have other than shutting you out of her life? As a mother she wouldn't want to do that... It'd break her heart. But if you keep this up soon she will have no other choice, because she is miserable.
Women don't LIKE this. Being a jerk might cause -chasing and wanting to improve and change the man- as a reaction, but it is not done because anyone enjoy it. It is for some women a natural response to the treatment you give them. Seeking approval.
Then again you asked why "we", women, let go of a great guy to be with a jerk. Maybe I'm in the minority here again, Id hope not, but maybe I am. I wouldn't let go of a great guy to be with a jerk, and I've been with jerks and kicked them to the curb. But I also know that while I was younger I hadn't learned yet what to expect and what not to expect in a relationship, what I should demand and what I should forgive and not forgive. I guess you could say I tolerated a lot more, but then again I was also a complete bitch in return, due to not knowing what was acceptable in a relationship or not. Nice guys stuck with me even if I treated them like crap too, and in retrospect I can see this. But it has been a learning process.
Why did my ex let me walk all over him? My thought on it has always been that he had no backbone, and he was also suppressing his feelings so that they just suddenly one day exploded. He was in addition dumb (seriously, not just me being mean here, he was slow), and dependent on others. He wasn't individualistic, and he functioned poorly on his own. He was drawn by care for me, but unable to communicate his needs or stand up for himself, thus I walked all over him. My relationship with him taught me that I need a man with backbone who speaks up, or else it can happen again.
I know this answer is getting long, so sorry! But I have thought a bit about it now, and I think the reason why I would be drawn to someone who is not good for me would be because of their unattainability. That, subconsciously, I seek the approval from them in order to approve of myself. I haven't been long in relationships with assholes, and I don't let anyone walk over me, but I have lingered after exes a few times, and I have also found breaking up to be difficult, even when I know what is best. The reason behind this has been that you sort of want this approval, if you know what I mean? Even if you don't really want the man, and might think he is a jerk, you still want to feel accepted. This happens when people are dependent on others to feel self worth... and I guess there are tons of people with low confidence, where this urge for approval is more prominent.
Hope that made sense.
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female
reader, Aunty BimBim  +, writes (29 December 2011):
 Pheromones .... I dont know how they are measured but yours are stronger, or smellier, and its a chemical reaction.
Hopefully by the time the girls get older they will have enough sense to recognise their attraction to you is irrational, and that what Todd is offering is a much safer bet.
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