A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Is a person considered a pedophile if they just have sexual thoughts about children and teenagers much younger than them?Or do they actually have to sleep with a minor to be a pedophile? Reply to this Question
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 May 2011): Cerebus , in your very long essay starting with "He's not a paedophile,......" You lost credibility with me.But now you redeemed yourself with proper advice. Good for you.LoveGirl
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): Well in those circumstances everything about that situation is wrong and he should be reported for it too. Seriously if he hasn't been reported then I would if I were you. I would write an anonymous email detailing everything to anyone who should be informed, the school, the school board, his wife etc but first at your age I'd talk to my parents.His actions are those of a serious sexual predator.1. He's married, may even have his own kids. 2. He is/was working in a school with access to lots of vulnerable young girls. 3. He's been doing this since she was 12.Well have no doubt of what he is/was OP, he's a dirty old man that likes to take advantage of girls from the age of 12, he's a cheat a liar and in his position he was legally required not to enter into such a close "friendship" with this girl. He did indeed feed her desire and kept her hanging in the long term until he could legally act. For all we know there could have been plenty of sexual contact before she was 18 but they only had full sex after. Or they could well have been doing this all along but only stating that he waited and lying about it.If he's still working with children in any capacity then the relevant authorities have to be contacted OP. If that is the case even if he just coaches little league etc as a hobby, anything like that people have to know. He represents a risk. Everything he has done is illegal in the way he has done things.I'm training to be a teacher, I don't know about America I assume it's similar but teacher/student relationships are very closely monitored, even the hint of crossing the line and you lose your job. The first thing we're supposed to do when faced with a crush, which are common, is to report it to our bosses. Any attempt by the student to write poems, give gifts etc. must also be reported and we must also contact the parents. He broke those rules from the outset with only one thing on his mind. Now here in Ireland it is also the case that anyone dating a former student will lose their job too. Because it is undeniable proof that there was a level of intimacy that was a step too far while they were there. Here in Ireland you can't argue against that legally. The school is well within their right to fire you without recourse because you can't exactly say that wasn't the case when you're now dating that student.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI would have to say that it had nothing to do with respecting the girl or the law. I would say that he was cautious about making an actual move on this girl because she was a student and he was a school administrator in the same school district. He would lose his job, and not to mention his marriage would be destroyed. Also, he wasn't absolutely positive that she had feelings for him. She was really outgoing in school and talked to anyone, that's how they talked.He knew her since she was 12 and she wrote him poems and made him cds. To me, a normal man and faculty member of a school would tell a 12 year old who obviously has a crush that it is flattering, but she needs to stop doing that. Do you agree? No, he loved the attention because he wasn't a cool or a popular guy and just thanked her for it.When she was about 15 is when he would ask her about boyfriends and ask for hugs, etc. It's such a touchy subject and I'm not sure what he is/was. That's why I'm asking. I just know that when she turned 18 she confessed that she liked him and within a few weeks they were having sex. In a crowd of people, she would be the one he said hi to if he saw her. It's like they were obssesed with each other and i'm pretty sure she was the only student he hooked up with. They're both pretty weird.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): I would still consider them a pedophile if they had any sort of sexual thoughts of a child.To what you said, I wouldn't necessary call him a pedophile for liking a 15 year old, but I do however find it very odd. I would wonder why he cannot find women his own age. Perhaps he has a dead end job, he's insecure/shy, he could be immature for his age so he feels the need to be around young girls to make himself feel better, he relates to this girl as a father daughter, there could be a lot of reasons. But, I do know a lot of people would not agree with this.If he did have sex with the girl at 15, then yes, he would be considered a pedophile and would have broken the law. So I would say it's a very good job he waited until she was 18. But there again, even though he didn't have sex with girl, he obviously still had sexual thoughts about her, so as dear mandy said, I do still think it is bordering pedophilia.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): *I'm not defending
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): He's not a paedophile, he's an ephebophile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
It is actually a very common preference too, I'd actually call it normal. I don't think many men haven't at least once in their adult lifetime seen a 16 year old and found her attractive and most of us have more than once. Besides there are a lot of teenage girls out there that look like fully developed adults. Not only that but in our society youth is seen as beauty, otherwise women wouldn't spend billions every year trying to fight aging. There is a very good reason why youth is considered beautiful too.
Remember up until recent times it was considered not only normal but a preference for men of any age to marry young teens. Infant mortality rates which have only improved in the last couple of centuries, with the advent of better medical technologies, meant that marrying a young teen girl gave you the greatest chance of successfully procreating and raising an heir, couple that with the fact that males were preferred as heirs, marrying a young healthy teen was in fact a biologically sound act. Miscarriages, stillbirths and children dying of disease before reaching maturity was painfully common, add to that low life expectancies and you can see why having a young teen wife was preferred and why many men still find girls that age attractive. We may have evolved in medical and sociological terms but psychologically we still retain our base instincts.
As regards being classed as a mental disorder, well so was homosexuality by the DSM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology
I did a research paper on the effects of the media on sexualization of young teens and had sections on paedophilia and homosexuality. Pretty much all the psychological evidence I found that cited paedophilia as a mental disorder was almost the exact same as that which used to class homosexuality the same way, with the major point being that they were both biologically unnatural because sex is an act of procreation and to be attracted to someone with which you had no possibility of procreating with must therefore be a disorder. The similarities between the two are there for all to see. The only difference is that society now finds homosexuality to be acceptable, after years of fighting for rights by LBGT groups. Academics and psychologists felt okay to openly challenge the assumption that it was a mental disorder because homosexuality is a social norm now, especially seeing as there was very little empirical data to support it as a disorder in the first place I'm defending it or making a judgement either way, just stating the academic similarities (although I know I will be rated very negatively for pointing them out).
Sexuality in terms of psychology is still effected by societies attitudes towards it and it is ever evolving, even psychologists won't claim that the DSM is a wholly factual manual but merely a guide seeing as new evidence from research comes out regularly which challenges things in it.
We here on this site all pretty much come from Western democracies, where paedophilia is wholly demonized and in most cases rightly so because we're constantly bombarded by the small minority of those that perpetrate vicious crimes against children. I call them the small minority because many psychologists who specialize in this field have amassed plenty of evidence to show that most people who have a sexual attraction to children never act on it in their lifetime, they get married have their own children and live normal lives without letting their preference ever leave the realm of their fantasies. But you can't speak out in these terms too loudly or the villagers will be out with their torches and pitchforks. These psychologists all agree however that any person who does act on it and harms a child in that way does indeed have a mental disorder because it is well known the wholly devastating effect that kind of abuse has on kids any person who would think otherwise or go ahead with it anyway is definitely messed up in the head. But to state that all people with that preference must act on it is a myth, with absolutely no empirical data to back that up. It has become a common perception now that your sexual preference is engendered from birth, that we are born heterosexual, homosexual etc, well the same principle can be applied to those with more extreme sexual preferences and it is fully accepted in the majority of cases that you just can't change that, genetic data backs that up.
As regards the guy you're talking about I think the same applies. His attraction to this young teen is not unnatural, it is only viewed that way in societal terms and only in certain Western societies, if you look at Japan which is more technologically advanced than any other country, you'll see they have a national obsession with young teen girls, you can even buy their worn panties in vending machines there (Yeah that's just plain weird). Even in Western countries the schoolgirl uniform is the most popular role-playing costume, not only for couples but if you go out on Halloween you'll see more "slutty" schoolgirls than any other type of costume. Many countries still view young teens as worthy of marriage, even in countries that have the same level of medical tech as the West.
Now saying all this he does have a massive psychological advantage over this girl in terms of experience and maturity but whether he uses that or whether she is in fact vulnerable to that are different matters altogether. If he waited 3 years without ever acting on his feelings until she was mature enough to make her own decision regarding consent then that to me is evidence that he has in some way a moral conscience and does in fact respect her, the law regarding that, and/or his position over her. We can't help who we fall in love with, we can't and we've all dated people who were bad for us, whether from a legal standpoint, whether they were just bad people or whether the relationship was unworkable, we all still had feelings of love and a chemistry that made us do stupid things like stay in a relationship with these people. The fact remains this guy fought all those urges and waited until this girl had reached maturity and we all know how hard it can be to fight that. 3 years is a hell of a long time in those terms. That would have been even more the case she developed her own sexual drive, which no one can refute is naturally quite high in pubescent teens as it is.
I met my girlfriend when she became part of my social group at 16, I was in my mid 20's then. We were friends a long time before we developed any feelings for each other, I'd always found her cute but she was like a little sister to our group. We gradually became closer as friends spending a lot of time with each other until we fell in love and took the next step when she was 19. We're together 6 years now. All that time we were friends from age 16-19 I was dating women of various ages, younger, my age, older than me. It was never a case of me not being able to find a "woman my own age" most people date with some degree of age difference mostly within roughly 5 years of each other anyway, it's almost never about not finding someone your own age, personal preference and a simple matter of chancing upon someone with whom you have a deep chemistry with is usually how the successful versions of age difference relationships come about. So the worrying about someone who "can't" get someone their own age, doesn't exist unless that man or woman preys on people that are younger and uses them. But in the same sense I've met women my age with the emotional maturity and mental fortitude of a young teen and teens (like my girlfriend) who have greater mental fortitude, self awareness and a sense of self control than most adult women. So at any age there can be a disparity in terms of dominance in the relationship, adults can have huge emotional and mental advantages over other adults too. The problem lies in a person that uses that to their advantage for negative purposes.
How would I feel about this guy dating her? It depends on what he's like as a guy. If he's like me then I'd be okay with that, if his girlfriend is like mine then that's okay too. My girl has always been a leader not a follower, she's an alpha even in terms of women who are older than her. The very reason she became associated with my social clique in the first place was that she is a pensive person, a deep thinker and keen observer of human interaction, she just had nothing in common with people her age who acted "idiotically" on impulse, she felt they just didn't understand even basic concepts of life and she felt more comfortable associating with people who'd already learned all those things, people who were on the same level of intellectual, emotional and mental maturity as her. She felt safe in our group as we had grown out of that supercharged sexual phase of our lives that comes with youth and we were very protective of her too.
Society says otherwise though about age gap relationships that are so big, especially when this guy is 40 and he started flirting with her when she was a teen and most people understandably wouldn't like this. Not only that but the chances of a successful long term relationship between is very minimal. If a 40 year old started doing this kind of thing with my 16 year old sister I'd be exceptionally cautious, he'd get a warning in no uncertain terms as to what is and is not acceptable and the consequences should he step out of line or in any way try to use his greater maturity to use her. Caution is always called for in any relationship, when conditions like this exist, conditions where one persons power over another could be used negatively and then extra caution is required. I may sound hypocritical in the sense that I am in one and I would be very wary of it happening to my sister but when the majority of these kind of relationships fail and when the possibility of her being used by a guy like that is so high then it's perfectly logical that I would. Not every guy is like me in that sense.
"what does that tell you about that man?"
It tells me he either has respect for the girl or respect for the law, maybe both. It tells me he is patient, it tells me he's in for a lot of heartache as she changes, matures and develops into an adult, discovers her own needs, discovers who she is as a woman and that they have very little chance at a future together because they're life stages are too different. He's at a settling age, she's at an age where her base opinions and views on the world and life haven't yet formed into the solid permanent views she will maintain when she reaches full maturity.
He has had 3 years of understanding how this works, the real problems occur when the relationship goes to the next level. It is very unlikely to survive those difficulties because age difference throws a hell of a lot of them at you, even after 6 years with my girl we still come across those.
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reader, Dear Mandy  +, writes (25 May 2011):
 I would be concerned as to why he feels he cant be looking at women his age, and maybe he wants to stay young so acts it by hanging around young girls. I would say its a good thing he waited for her to turn 18 BUT it would feel like he was grooming her for that day. I still would not agree with it, and I would feel it would still be bordering pedophilia.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): It tells me that this man groomed you when u were a little girl. Then he pounced! Makes no difference: he knws what he is really.
Sometimes these men groom young girls for years, then when they "come of age" legally then the sexual aspect starts. By then the young naïve girl is soooooo in love that she cannot see what has happened. Just as in your situation. Whether 15 or 18 this man knew what the outcome would be.
LoveGirl
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): According to the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-IV), the definition of pedophilia is:
"This disorder is characterized by either intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (typically age 13 or younger)."
So yes, thinking about sex with children or young teens makes a person a pedophile, at least in the US. Also in the US, for legal purposes underage teens are considered children; there is generally no differentiation between a teen and a pre-teen. Other countries may have different definitions.
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reader, The Realist  +, writes (25 May 2011):
 I would call that a moral debate but not a crime. That man would be seen as having pedophile tendencies but I do think it is such a harsh term to throw at someone who hasn't broken the law. It's something that I wouldn't do and I hope that she knows what she is getting into but I can't say I am fully against what he is doing because i don't consider it to be my place. Now if it was my sister or cousin it would be a different story.
As for pedaphile, technically no but I wouldn't say he is a model 40 year old.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 May 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionOkay thanks for the feedback eveyone..Now let me give a little more insight here.How do you feel about a man who flirts with a girl and obviously has chemistry wth her from age of 15 and then has sex with her when she turned 18? Note that he is in his early forties when she is 18 and still in high schhol.No he is not a pedophile, but what does that tell you about that man?
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reader, The Realist +, writes (24 May 2011):
I think what people have forgot here is that say you think about killing someone. That doesn't make you a murderer does it? Through life people will have phases or just times when thoughts pop into their heads and they are not wrong because of them. We are very curious creatures and that is the way nature intended us to be. If you beleive that we have retained some of the thoughts from hundreds of years ago it might explain why some people are attracted to young and old because the average marrying age was around 12 if you go back far enough.
I think what really makes a pedophile is only being turned on to children along with the thoughts of actually doing something with a child. Of course if something is done then you are one. As Chigirl brought up too, age is an important role. You may see a teen and think she is hot because you are thinking that when you were her age that is the type of girl you had always wanted to get with. I do think that when you are sexually attracted to someone under 12 (not sexually mature yet) that it becomes more of an issue.
In the end though we do have the freedom to think what ever we wish and that doesn't make us a bad person. I did some work in philosophy and beleive that it is our actions that truely define us not our thoughts whether they be heard by the world or not.
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reader, llifton +, writes (24 May 2011):
 it usually starts out as thoughts that eventually will transcend into the acting out of those thoughts. it starts somewhere. but you're not labeled a pedophile until you physically act out on it.
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (24 May 2011):
 Oh and I forgot:
"You are what you eat."
Mom
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reader, person12345 +, writes (24 May 2011):
 Pedophile isn't referring to amount of illegal activities, it just means you are attracted to children. Anyone who is attracted to children is a pedophile. Pedophilia used to be considered simply a sexual minority or preference.
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reader, LazyGuy  +, writes (24 May 2011):
 Strictly speaking there is a different term for every age group the attraction is focused on. But their usage is so rare, you can barely find any reference to it.
As for whether they actually got to do it... you are not a murderer just for thinking of murder but you are a racist if you think racist thoughts.
It all depends on the setting. In a court of law, thoughts are not (yet) crimes. But if you are worried someone you know might be leaning in a direction. Then I would say if a person has an fixation on the elements of a child that make them a child and an aversion to the elements that make them an adult, that makes them a potential pedophile.
One thing about pedophiles that claim to love kids versus someone in love with someone young:
A pedophile is NOT interested in growing old with their target.
A person in love with someone younger then them is. And they can then simply wait because it is not the age that is the attraction but the person.
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reader, eyeswideopen +, writes (24 May 2011):
"A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts."
James Allen
“As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.”
God
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2011): Paedophilia is a sexual attraction to kids 12 and under. If you have a sexual attraction to kids you're a paedophile, regardless of whether you act on it or not.
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reader, Dear Mandy +, writes (24 May 2011):
HI
thinking about a minor in such a way is the begining of a pedophile, one minute getting thoughts, then the next its not enough to satisfy you , so then they change to watching young children play, to then switch to the worst thing ever which is abusing a young child. If someone is getting sexual thoughts of a child, I would advise them to see a councilor A.S.A.P, before they get to any difficult and worrying and alarming situations. I would ask myself why would I be thinking about young children this way? it is very very wrong.
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reader, a-g55 +, writes (24 May 2011):
 In my opinion it is anyone who has sexual thoughts towards a child that has not entered puberty yet. because once they have they have breasts and wide hips which are prehistoric in build attraction switches for men. some 14 year olds look about 21 and are pretty hot to!
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reader, aunt honesty  +, writes (24 May 2011):
 It really cant be defined by thoughts. It depends on what thoughts they are having, what age group it is and if it is sinister enough to cause worrying. Its a really hard one to answer because you have not really give much specific details. Example if there was a man say in his forties and he was looking at a five year old with sexual thoughts well then there is something wrong with this. Hope that helped.
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reader, anonymous, writes (24 May 2011): Well you have to have some sexual contact with a child but i consider someone who thinks about a child that way a pedofile. Its not normal to have sexual thoughts about a child. And its not good because typically one leads to the other.
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reader, chigirl  +, writes (24 May 2011):
 They are pedophile if they are sexually aroused by children, and have the intent to have sex with them. Simply thinking about it in a fantasy world doesn't make you a pedophile, as people can have all sorts of twisted sexual fantasies. It is the intent, and execution of this thought, that constitutes as a pedophile.
Sexual interest in a teenager is not pedophilia. A pedophile has a sexual interest in children, up to the age of 12 (which is determined by law as "child" versus "teenager", although "young teenager" is around 13-15 years of age, this probably variates from country to country and state to state).
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