A
male
age
41-50,
*ionMicha
writes:Here is my heart-hurting situation.I have been with the mother of my son for almost 15 years. We met when we were in our late teens. About two years ago, we began something that has made me realize I wasn't really in love with my fiancee but more in friendship relation. Our sex life was very boring and we didn't make love. We rather fullfilled physical needs. So in order to give a little spice in this area we (actually it was more me than her) decided to arrange a wife-swapping experience with two close friends that were also together since they were teens (15 years old, now in 30s). The first time I slept with my friend's fiancee and he slept with mine, it has not been a really fun situation. But, for whatever reason, it rehappened a couple weeks later. It then began to be a routine. We met each and every friday night, had dinner all together and after dinner, one of the two "unofficial" couple went out for the night while the other "couple" stayed with the kids (mine and the two daughters of our friends). Saturday dinner was the "switch time". The couple that stayed with the kids were free to go out while the other "couple" stayed with the kids. Then, Sunday, at dinner, we were all together again and after dinner, each of the "official" couple went back in their respective homes with their kids. This lasted for almost a year. Weird as it sounds, neither of the "official couple" had sex together. We were exclusive to the other person who was not our fiancee. (Hope you still follow me in this pretty weird story).As you can picture, it was not only a sex experience anymore but rather a living together and deep sharing experience. So, what has to happen, happened. My friend's fiancee and I fell deeply in love. We were not able to continue living apart for the week and only see each other in the weekends. What was to point to continue living with someone that you do not love anymore. And I am now sure that before all this began, I was not in love anymore with the mother of my son as well as my new love was not in love with the father of her daughters either. Both "official" couples had rough times in the years before. My new love left him three times in the last 6 years but came back only cause she was afraid of not being able to live by her own (financialy speaking). On my side, my ex and I were arguing a lot and splitting has been discussed many times before.I know I have not done the things right. First of all, I kept saying to the mother of my son that I was still loving her but actually I didn't took any time to really evaluate my sayings. I always been the type of person that wanted everyone around me to be happy even though their happiness was maybe against my own happiness. So, I did not stand-up like I should have done and continue to say to her that I was still in love while it was not true. I know that I have hurted her deeply by not being a man but what is done is done and I cannot go back. I also know that we should (both couples) have addressed our relationship issues before doing that dirty wife-swapping thing. Also, at the beginning I did not know that I would fall in love as deep as I felt. If I have knowned that, you can be sure that I would not have done it. So please do not spit on me saying things like "you should have stayed away from your friend's fiancee" or "with friends like you, who needs enemies". I recall you that he was also living an alternate life with my fiancee and both of them were enjoying it big time.You see, my new TRUE love and I decided that it was time for us to live our love to the fullest. We knew it was not a good thing for the kids to have parents separated but living what we were living at that time was not much better for them we guess. So she left the father of her daughters last April and 2 weeks later I left the mother of my son. You see I thing that if my ex had fell in love with my now ex-friend, everything would have gone smooth. I know that he was in love with my ex (cause he told couple of people about it) but my ex was not in love with him (or maybe she does not know what love is). So now, we live our love to the fullest but exs (mostly my ex) have not accepted the situation and are REALLY angry and my ex even wish I die. You see, we (my new true love and I) think that they wanted to continue to have fun together without sacrifying their public images. I think each party in our situation has thinking that should be respected but I also know that in our situation either of the decision (staying with our respective fiancee and not seeing each other anymore or living our love to its fullest) had a drawback not really happy. It is pretty hard for us to live our love while knowing that everyone is against us mainly because we destroyed two families. But my new true love told her ex while she was still with him that she was falling deeply in love and maybe they should stop seeing us (my ex and I). But to this he responded NO. I need to see her again and we have to continue this.All of this, having my ex basically in depression, knowing that someone who has been close friend is now wishing me bad things is pretty hard to live. But I love her so much and she loves me back so much that I just can't put an end to our relation. I have think about it but I just can't. All of our old friends when we were in couple with our exs are not talking to us anymore. We do our best when the kids are with us to give them a great life but when they are with our respective exs, they hear all kind of bad things about both of us. We just hope that someday they will understand that with what we have done (wife-swapping for whole weekends) it was something that has a chance to happen. Sorry for the length of my post but it is something so important in my life right now that I had no choice but to explain my situation the best I could (even if everything is not in this post, I guess I explained the most part the best I could). So here is my question : What would you have done in my situation ? Should I put a stop to the relationship with whom I believe to be the love of my life and hope to meet someone just like her in the future but without the past that we both share right now ?HELP ME PLEASE ! I am so tired of always thinking about all this. I just one to love her every day and have our exs accept the situation at least for the sake of our children. Hope to hear from any of you soon.
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male
reader, Translucent  +, writes (8 November 2009):
It's a bit harsh but i am with the Anonymous female poster on this one, " You LIVE by the Sword, You DIE by the Sword". A time will come when your relatiionship with the so called "love of your life" needs a bit of spicing up what then?, more wife swapping?. You clearly were the one who suggested wife swapping and probably suggested your friends aswell ( because you are so considerate, lol) and now you even state that one of the problems is your wife not falling in love with the husband of your so called "love of you life". You wanted this grow a spine and face up to it, not trying to look for ppl's acknowledgement that you did the right thing, NO YOU DIDN'T. Not that this message is meant to make you happy or sad it's simply truth everyone who tells you otherwise are just as selfish as you are.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 November 2009): Remember Lion shifting blame continuously and always justifying your actions are not assisting you one bit. You had a boring life with your missus, you wanted it to be spiced up, you introduced another couple and then it went south. The basis of the initial agreement was purely for sex and sexual gratification. I said from the very beginning that introducing another party into the bedroom is only for mature adults who have strong marriages/partnership. Now three kids are having to face the humiliation that their parents could have avoided but the parents only cared for themselves and did not give a damn about the ramifications for their betrayal.
I think Lion you came to DC to vindicate yourself. You lapped up the support but you could not handle the criticism. You just do not get it. you try to justify and excuse what you did but when all has been said and done, you are facing your demons. If you truly believe that you did nothing wrong then why are you facing such a moral battle. You do not have to prove anything to us, we do not know you. But you have to face the friends and family, the children and the exes. These are the people you need to convince, not me or others here at DC. You hurt a lot of people when you moved the goalpost to suit yourself. You know this, it speaks volumes about the kind of person you became. It was about your quest for love, sex, lust and happiness instead of playing by the agreed rules you and your friends wife played by your own rules.
The rules of engagement was very simple. Just F*CK and spice to your relationship. It was supposed to be a purely sexual relationship but you decided to take your friends wife instead. So, what do you think will happen in the end. Betrayal begets betrayal, you can try to convince yourself that you and the friends wife are new soul mates and will be together forever. Learn one thing in life- long committed relationships become stale, boring , hey even indifferent. Then the real relationship test starts. Then the hard work starts, now it is new found p*ssy and new found forbidden lust. In time this will get old and routine will set in. Now you two are fighting everyone and justifying yourself. Not only did you betray your wife emotionally and sexually, you are now comparing and judging her. I think you have done enough already to her. Leave her alone. Why pray for her, it just makes this so sick. Stop swapping notes with the friends wife. Just let it be, the reason you are internalising everything is because this new relationship does not sit well with you. You know the wrongdoing done and you want desperately to prove that you are a good guy.
You make reference to God in all your posts. Instead of mere words, go speak to your pastor. Let him set you free. The people here at DC are only human. We cannot vindicate you. Stop rubbing salt in your wifes wounds. She has suffered enough already. Enough is enough.
Lion, stop blaming us at DC for not supporting what you have done. You were so relived in your first followup , you were so relieved that you had gotten the support you were desperately seeking. It was like you were vindicated but as in anything in life, there are two sides. You did not like the other critical side told to you.
In the end you are living your life, you got what you wanted- your friends wife. You should now be a very happy chappy, but you are not. It tells you, even though you do not want to admit it, that all is not well. I think you suddenly grew a conscious therefore you are now questioning yourself. Only you hold the key to YOUR future. Be happy with your choice Lion. You paid a very high price for your friends wife! Just ask your wife and son.
Not judging you , merely telling you that your actions have has dire consequences. The beauty of Dear Cupid is that you get both support and criticism. It allows you to see the real situation. It allows you to make an informed decision. But it also allows you an opportunity to question yourself and to remedy the situation, if you want to.
I am sorry you took offense but i think the responses have given you something to work with.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 November 2009): Remember Lion shifting blame continuously and always justifying your actions are not assisting you one bit. You had a boring life with your missus, you wanted it to be spiced up, you introduced another couple and then it went south. The basis of the initial agreement was purely for sex and sexual gratification. I said from the very beginning that introducing another party into the bedroom is only for mature adults who have strong marriages/partnership. Now three kids are having to face the humiliation that their parents could have avoided but the parents only cared for themselves and did not give a damn about the ramifications for their betrayal. I think Lion you came to DC to vindicate yourself. You lapped up the support but you could not handle the criticism. You just do not get it. you try to justify and excuse what you did but when all has been said and done, you are facing your demons. If you truly believe that you did nothing wrong then why are you facing such a moral battle. You do not have to prove anything to us, we do not know you. But you have to face the friends and family, the children and the exes. These are the people you need to convince, not me or others here at DC. You hurt a lot of people when you moved the goalpost to suit yourself. You know this, it speaks volumes about the kind of person you became. It was about your quest for love, sex, lust and happiness instead of playing by the agreed rules you and your friends wife played by your own rules. The rules of engagement was very simple. Just F*CK and spice to your relationship. It was supposed to be a purely sexual relationship but you decided to take your friends wife instead. So, what do you think will happen in the end. Betrayal begets betrayal, you can try to convince yourself that you and the friends wife are new soul mates and will be together forever. Learn one thing in life- long committed relationships become stale, boring , hey even indifferent. Then the real relationship test starts. Then the hard work starts, now it is new found p*ssy and new found forbidden lust. In time this will get old and routine will set in. Now you two are fighting everyone and justifying yourself. Not only did you betray your wife emotionally and sexually, you are now comparing and judging her. I think you have done enough already to her. Leave her alone. Why pray for her, it just makes this so sick. Stop swapping notes with the friends wife. Just let it be, the reason you are internalising everything is because this new relationship does not sit well with you. You know the wrongdoing done and you want desperately to prove that you are a good guy.You make reference to God in all your posts. Instead of mere words, go speak to your pastor. Let him set you free. The people here at DC are only human. We cannot vindicate you. Stop rubbing salt in your wifes wounds. She has suffered enough already. Enough is enough.Lion, stop blaming us at DC for not supporting what you have done. You were so relived in your first followup , you were so relieved that you had gotten the support you were desperately seeking. It was like you were vindicated but as in anything in life, there are two sides. You did not like the other critical side told to you. In the end you are living your life, you got what you wanted- your friends wife. You should now be a very happy chappy, but you are not. It tells you, even though you do not want to admit it, that all is not well. I think you suddenly grew a conscious therefore you are now questioning yourself. Only you hold the key to YOUR future. Be happy with your choice Lion. You paid a very high price for your friends wife! Just ask your wife and son.Not judging you , merely telling you that your actions have has dire consequences. The beauty of Dear Cupid is that you get both support and criticism. It allows you to see the real situation. It allows you to make an informed decision. But it also allows you an opportunity to question yourself and to remedy the situation, if you want to. I am sorry you took offense but i think the responses have given you something to work with.
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A
male
reader, LionMicha +, writes (6 November 2009):
LionMicha is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you to all you judges of life !You are so perfect and I hope that one day everyone will be as perfect as you all !!!Do you think I am proud of what I have done? If she was so in love with me, how come she told the other man "I love you"? How come when I asked her to stop all this and that I wanted to try to get closer to HER she responded NO, let's continue, this is fun !!!! How come when I asked her to make love she told me that she was satisfied enough with the other man as I should be with the other woman ??? I guess I have made the story to short and forgot some things. You were not there. You have not lived it! I know what kind of man I am. I know I am a good man, a good father and a good spouse too! I have my weaknesses like everyone. I am far from being perfect as you seems to be. But I know that now, life has given me a chance to start all over again with someone I deeply love and who loves me back a lot. We discussed about our past life and both are really not proud of what have been done. But again, WE ALL four did that stupid thing. When my new love and I realized that what we were been doing was really wrong and tried to end all this or on my side tried to seek couple therapist (but my ex refused each and every time I asked her), what do we received as an answer from them, NO AGAIN ! It is fun, let's continue all this !!! So what do you think we had left to do? We were in love and both believed that all this was wrong and wanted to share deep love and preserve our new love from all the temptation this evil world has to offer. So I can assure you that I have tried big time to save my relationship but I have not been understood. When you ask your spouse if she thinks she has something to change and she respond NO, I am perfect, what can a man do? I now hope that my new love will last forever and each and every day I will do all I can to have her happy by my side. You know when you tried to give happiness to someone different ways but it was always never enough, it gets harder and harder to continue... So again, even if I was not happy with my ex and that I have fallen in love with another woman I tried to arrange things but it was hopeless.So yes, I pray for her. I hope that she can understand what have been done and realize that she played a part like the three others in our nightmare. So, besides the fact that I have fallen in love and not her, we both have done the same thing so I guess you could say all your bad things to her also.This was the last time I come to this forum. Thank you to all of you and YES, may God bless you all !!!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 November 2009): TALKING HELPS, YOU BEAUT.I was trying to tell him this but he doesn't want to listen. to the point and perfect."I know that he was in love with my ex (cause he told couple of people about it) but my ex was not in love with him (or maybe she does not know what love is).- She knew what love is, she was in love with you. Stupid. "
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (6 November 2009): I know that he was in love with my ex (cause he told couple of people about it) but my ex was not in love with him (or maybe she does not know what love is).- She knew what love is, she was in love with you. Stupid.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2009): forgot to add about my sex life- not getting it as much as you, only 3/4 times a week. i have to shift the blame on my husband, poor man is always tired, what with working a 12 hour shift. and babes, i am NOT SHY. I stimulate the man, keep him interested and i enjoy, whatever he asks for i give it to him. i told you marriage is hard work!
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2009): Lion, honestly (and i mean no harm to you) I wouldn’t have to do anything. WHY? Because i wouldn’t be in a position like yours. You see, as i am concluding last minute work stuff i am responding to you. While i am working, and trading some unpleasant niceties, my darling hb of almost 18 years is sleeping soundly after a tiring days work. My two beautiful children, my precious ,precious gifts that God bestowed upon my hubby and myself are safely tucked away in bed as well. In my environment where there is so much of corruption, so much of betrayal so much of devastation, i have made a conscious choice not to stray. Yes, i have the usual hiccups in my marriage. Yes it gets boring, yes i have to constantly work at it, BUT IT IS A CHOICE THAT I HAVE MADE. I have decided that my marriage and my darling honest hb is what i want, what i need, what sustains me. We are not perfect but perfect for each other. We scream and shout, blame each other for the kids messing up, have extended family issues. Have communication issues and the lack thereof. But in the end this conscious decision to love and work at my marriage is what completes me. I think people are so confused by the “i love you but not in love DRAMA’ that they cannot also understand it. When we talk of love everyone wants to feel that butterflies, knees shaking , heart pounding, then people say I AM IN LOVE. What people forget is that love is also QUIET, the stillness, the peaceful and perfect harmony you feel with your partner. This stillness is different. It is complete. Love is so often mistaken as loud, yet people are unable to identify it with quiet and stillness. Is it wrong that this type of love is different, NO. We all are different , so how can we all expect to love the same. Regarding my kids, I would NEVER want to lose their respect and would never knowingly hurt them. I would never intentionally hurt their dad because he is a good hb and a better dad. Good men are so hard o find and i believe i bagged one of the last few. My hb and i are so different. Something like chalk and cheese. I do legal auditing, he works in a factory. I make more money than him but he likes to think that he is the boss at home (lol)(little does he know in any marriage/partnership the woman is always the boss). What i love is that he comes home to ME. Yes, i may not deserve it or be the best wife out there but he has chosen o come home to his wife and his kids and for that I respect him even more. We have our battles, my sulky days but that quiet loves shines through. It is so easy to throw away a marriage – instead of working through the issues, finding comfort in a 3rd party, swapping partners and so forth. But it takes time and effort and as a spouse you need to make that sacrifice. We all want exciting lives but we want it on our terms to our partners detriment. do i enjoy having sex with my hubby only. YES. i would feel very dishonoured if he wanted to share me and well he better not think of asking me to share him. but if that is what he wants i would not stop him. i would draw up our divorce papers myself and get him to sign. no fuss. no drama. just acting on our choices. i hate drame, don't you. for me, simpler is better. As you mature we must accept our actions and we must accept the consequences of said actions. Lion, you may think that I have been unreasonably hard on you, but please realise this,. YOU DID WRONG. Here there was no grey area. Therefore your ex wife is hurting so much. You betrayed her and that pain will almost never go away. I do not think you know just how much your betrayal has killed her and it is not fair to her. You made a very wrong decision but you now have to live with this betrayal. I standby my 1st response to say that you have a taste for the forbidden. Soon this new woman will not be enough for you, since you have made a conscious decision to cheat. The concept of once a cheater, always one will hold true to you. How do i know it? close males in my family unit had done similar and they have lived to regret their screw up but more importantly they screwed up again. Why? Because they could. If i ever found myself in your shoes. I would stop pretending and i would stop down playing the hurt and betrayal i have caused. I would also start saving for my kids therapy since i know what my actions would do to them. Their emotional scarring would stay with me through my life. I would acknowledge my wrongdoing and not hide from it. i would also ask for forgiveness and i would do a honesty check with myself. I would check my falseness and i would internalise my wrongdoing. I would search my soul and try to find out why i betrayed the ones i claimed to love. I would also shy away from preening myself in the mirror, because honestly i would not be able to look myself in the mirror. I would also stop being a hypocrite and start growing some moral balls (yes Lion, women have balls too, sometimes more so than men). I am not perfect but i try my damndest not to inflict pain on the very people whom i claim to love. You can have all the material things in life but if you cannot have your kids(and spouse’s) respect and love what do you have really??Lion, nice trading words with you but it is now 12.48am. Time to go snuggle up to my man. By the way I am only 38, not too much older than you but it is the choices that i have chosen to make that makes me different from you. I also think perhaps i have something called a conscious. You cliam that you keep on praying for your partner of 15 years. What do you say in this prayer. I am hoping you are asking the Lord to heal her, to sustain her, to help her through the turmoil she is facing and to help her get over your betrayal. I hope one day the shoe is not on the other foot, with you on the receiving end. Maybe then you may just get what I have been trying to tell you right from the very start. What is somewhat sad is that you did not get my words. Your new affair is borne out of pain and betrayal, the chances of survival is minimal. When something is borne out of a negative how do you expect it to thrive. What you sow you will reap. It is only a matter of timing. In the end it is our actions and not meaningless words that dictate our character.
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A
male
reader, LionMicha +, writes (5 November 2009):
LionMicha is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI love you anonymous !Seems like you are having a rough time too !Let the One Without Sin Cast the First Stone.I have come a long way from what I have done in the past. Through psychologist help and deep introspection I now know that I should have stand-up like a man well before and put an end to my relation with the mother of my son since I was not happy with her anymore. The experience I have lived will always remain in my soul and with it I will try to evolve as a spiritual being.And just for the record, what would you do if you were in my shoes right now?
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A
female
reader, Accountable +, writes (5 November 2009):
 For somebody who seems very religious (based on various blessings and notions of Agape in your responding posts) I don't really understand how your moral and religious code allowed you to get into this situation - i wasn't aware that adultery was condoned by God?
You can't escape your responsibility in this. There is no quick-fix to the hurt that you've helped to cause. I don't think that by any means you are the only guilty party, but I would encourage you to look at it from your ex-fiancee's perspective - I imagine (though i could obviously be mistaken) that she agreed to the wife-swap as she thought it would help you and your relationship, not destroy it. She is probably feeling inadequate and as though her life has been stripped away, because it has - her husband, home life and reputation have been taken away from her. Considering this, you are in a tricky position. I highly doubt she wants you to leave your new love and go back to her, and for now I imagine she will be uncomfortable with the idea that you are with anybody while she is alone, so i would actually encourage you to stay with this woman. I think that time is a healer, and given time to herself to think things through and move on, she will heal, and perhaps forgive you. I don't think theres anything you can do about it but give her space and time for this process, and try to keep the situation stable to allow her to adapt to it.
To be honest, I think the adults in this situation will resolve their feelings by themselves over time, whether you stay with your new woman or not. I would be more concerned about the children involved, if I were you. They have been living in an incestuous situation for more than a year, and yes this could have affected them, so all you can do now is ensure that they are given a stable and caring environment - talk to your exes about this, as your children shouldnt be subjected to both of your exes' resentment and anger. It isn't healthy for them and could seriously affect their ability to form future relationships.
I hope you don't consider this post to be harsh or judgemental; I have just tried to lay out the facts and potential solutions as I see them. Good luck in resolving this difficult situation.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2009): Eve, seems like we have two distinct views. well with your response our dear Lion will be able to sleep soundly tonight, not troubled by anything. Although i do agree it wasn’t all HIS fault, I focused on him since he was the instigator. You are right no one forced her but when you try to salvage a relationship you will try anything that your loved one wants in the hope that it works.see the thing about children is this - although i agree that yes they are at times resilient, just talk to the ones burdened by their parents disgrace. i fear repeating myself , but will - emotional scars are very rarely dealt with effectively. kids grow up with a distorted view of how to live their lives, they most of the time mirror their parents. i have come across the saying 'you marry what you know', this proves time and time again correct. well 15 years down the drain for what? next time you indulge in your partner swapping be very careful. do not make the mistake you made with the wife. when you f*ck , f*ck without emotions, so that history does not repeat itself. couples go into threesomes/wife swapping with the mistaken belief that it would revive a boring sex life. they are emotionally immature and they cross boundaries just like you and your current love/lust interest. “I just pray each and every night for the exes to be full of joy and happy again.” Why would YOU pray for the exes, after all you did nothing wrong. What is done is done, you have no reason whatsoever to feel guilty. You have no reason to internalise your wrongdoing. You have been pardoned and hey you came out unscathed. Dear LionMicha kindly do not bring God into this, stop being so condescending. And stop using Gods name in vain. Just makes you appear more false and more hypocritical. Stop with the praying, what s done is done. No amount of PRAYING is going to change the facts. No amount of your Gods interference now is going to stop the hurt. YOU should have started praying way before you did what you did. Maybe instead of you praying fro your ex ,start praying for YOURSELF. I know you need it more than anyone right now! This constant reference to prayer is just so damn hypocritical. Next I will hear that you have found God!Each to his own LionMicha, each to his own! Lion you may have a fan base here, but when no one is about and YOU need to look at yourself in the mirror, what do you see. Do you like that false man looking back at you?Let me change the salutations by saying May God Have Mercy on YOU
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female
reader, AskEve +, writes (5 November 2009):
 "Can love between two persons be present forever?" Yes and no. Any relationship needs to be worked at. There will always be trials along the way, it's the way we deal with these trials through working together that make our relationship stronger. The thing is... we all change as the years pass and with time and maturity we can become totally different people to the person they met say 20 years ago. When someone makes their marriage vows on the day of the marriage, they sincerely mean every word... at the time, but as time and the years go by, circumstances can change us and we can end up having different goals and becoming totally different people to the one our partner married all these years ago. The vows are meant to be kept for an eternity but this isn't always the case. If for example partners make vows to love and cherish till death us do part and the husband is found say 10 years later to be abusing their child, should the wife STILL love and cherish that partner? Of course not.
We change with time. "Can love between two persons be present forever?" Yes and no, it just depends on the circumstances.
~Eve~
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A
male
reader, LionMicha +, writes (5 November 2009):
LionMicha is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you so much Eve ! My vision is that I respect the mother of my son. She is his mother and forever will be. You know what, I still love her but this is not the kind of love that keeps 2 persons together each and every day. I only wish (and I pray for it to happen every night) that one day she will realize that we were not in love anymore and finally, by putting an end to our relationship, we just gave ourself the chance to feel truly loved and love someone truly. Sad thing for her is that life made this happen to me first. I know that I cannot answer the BIG question that everybody thinks about being : "Can love between two persons be present forever?". Maybe daily life always makes love disappear maybe true love can survive daily life throughout the years... I do not know for now but I know that for right now, the feelings I have for this woman are too strong to be neglected and frustrations were too present in my old relationship. May God bless you Eve.And for you anonymous, I just can say that I respect your opinion but I do not think it is fair to condemn the actions made by others. Do you possess the absolute thruth of life? Are you God? I do not wish bad things to happen to anyone. I wish everyone could have joy in their life but I know that for now, my decisions make some people angry but I also know that if they accept what have been done, life can bring love and hapiness to them also.May God bless you too anonymous.
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A
female
reader, AskEve +, writes (5 November 2009):
Anyone who partakes in wife swapping, threesomes or the like has to know that there can be consequences. Although Female reader is on the wife’s side in all of this can I just point out that although this was suggested by you LionMicha, I don’t think you “forced” her into anything. She is an adult and has her own mind and I don’t think she did do it “because she wanted to make you happy.” If that were the case then WHY did she continue to do it for ONE WHOLE YEAR? If I did it to make my man happy and didn’t enjoy it I would never have gone there again. I’d tried it, didn’t like it, end of story. This was not the case with the wife. She enjoyed it and continued to do it for a year. Doesn’t sound to me like someone forced into anything.
You were both very young when you got together in the first place. My guess is that it’s been your son that’s held you together. Had you not had him then you would both probably have separated years ago. As it was, your relationship wasn’t working and became boring and you BOTH took the gamble in order to spice things up. You fell in love (and so did the other male partner.) Unfortunately feelings weren’t reciprocated for him so it didn’t work out. Even if you tried to do “the right thing” and stay with your fiancée it would never work out, things will never be the same again.
Once this got out and friends and family got to know about it you would all have been the talk of the town. Things like this don’t happen every day. All four of you would be the object of gossip but you are not solely to blame for this, your fiancée and the other couple are just as much to blame as you are. ALL of you need to learn by this.
What happened in your personal life should never have leaked out but should have been handled privately between you and your fiancée as mature adults. I think it’s unfair that you are being blamed for this as you are NOT sorely to blame.
What’s done IS done and there is NOTHING any of you can do that will undo it. You don’t say how old your son is but children are resilient. As long as you continue to take your responsibilities with your son seriously and continue to be a loving father to him (and your fiancée a loving mother), then he will thrive. The gossip will eventually cease and be old hat when there is something/someone new to gossip about.
If you think you and your new partner can make a go of things then I say go for it. Millions of partners break up every day in lots of different ways, you are no different. Don’t dwell on what’s happened in the past, it will only pull you down. Instead learn from it, put it down to experience, after all, that’s what we are on this earth for in the first place… to experience! Your fiancée is her own worst enemy. If she prefers to dwell on things instead of moving on then I suggest she seeks counselling which will help her. Remember, she chose to continue this for one whole year, she wasn’t forced into anything, it was HER choice! (She’s probably more embarrassed that now everyone knows about it.) If it wasn’t this scenario that were to break you up I can guarantee you it would only have been a matter of time before you went your separate ways.
There is absolutely no reason why you cannot go on to have a successful relationship with this other woman. Don’t beat yourself up about it, what’s done is done and can never be undone. Think positively and look to the future, continue to be a good father to your son but DON’T eat yourself up with guilt. The other three were ALL willing to partake in what happened. Move on, learn from this experience and I wish you every happiness in the future.
~Eve~
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2009): MODS, thank you for posting my response.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 November 2009): Quiet echo has given you a false sense of atonement, something that you greedily lapped up! (sorry quiet echo, you are a Great aunt but here you have selectively decided condone this mans wrong actions)You now believe that what is done is done, no wrong doing on your part, all consenting adults and then what do you expect when the shit hits the fan. My first post was blocked selectively by the MODS. Maybe it was too candid, maybe they felt you couldn’t handle the truth! Or maybe you just only wanted posts that condone your wrongdoing. Whatever the case, hopefully this post will get through to you.You and this woman changed the terms unilaterally of the sex only sex arrangement. You moved the goal post to suit both your needs. You both CHEATED on your exs. Yes, you know you did but you are such a coward, now claiming to be fouled in the process of setting up home with the friends wife. How did you expect your exs to react? You have only been thinking with that little thing between your legs. YOU were bored with the longevity of your 15 years relationship with the ex. YOU PRESSURISED her into accepting the possibility of wife swopping. YOU set the terms of the arrangement. YOU instigated everything and YOU broker her heart. YOU betrayed her. YOU fell in lust with the F*CK BUDDY AND YOU destroyed your Sons mother in the process. What is going to happen when your relationship gets stale with the new f*ck mistress. Run out and pressurise her to try to swop partners again??????????? You now have the taste for the forbidden, you now have the taste for the unsavoury, SOON SHE will not be enough for you. You see, that itch between your legs, you will want it to be scratched by a different woman and so the situation carries on................You have devastated your wife. You so connivingly manipulated the entire situation right from the start , the slow soft pestering, the little innuendos about the boring sex life, the little lets spice up our sex life stories. This wife swopping worked for you why??? Because it was YOU who instigated it right from the word go. YOU know you did this therefore you appear to be wracked with guilt. What gulit pray do tell – this hurting of the exs whle you play happy f*uck families, is nothing but a mere inconvenience toyou. You just want them to go away. You just want the unpleasantness to go away so that you can now play lets pretend and act like you are this good upstanding family man. Brother, it doesn’t work like this and you are finding out the hard way. YOU see your actions have consequences. Your actions will dictate the outcome of your life and he way it seems NOTHING you try to do will to evade attention to your wrongdoing is working. Now your eyes are wide open and NOW with people TELLING you how wrong you are, your feeble attempt to justify yourself is not fooling me. Instead of you and the New MISSUS swopping notes during pillow talk, instead of wishing away the betrayal, be a man and admit to your wife your wrong. Apologise to her and I think she DESERVES it. Stop justifying yourself and stop making this shitty lust affair sound like a sad love story. It is not! This is a sordid travesty of betrayal on your part and on the Lust partners side (what do i call the new missus anyway). Do you know who is suffering more than anything here. IT IS THE INNOCENT KIDS. They have to withstand the mockery, the little whispers, the back biting, the ugliness of your sex scandal. The innocent kids lives will NEVER be the same again. The EMOTIONAL SCARS they will bare into their adult lives will NEVER go away. Speak to kids from sordid broken homes. They in fact grow up so emotionally corrupt that they just revert to what they know. It takes years, or sometimes NEVER for them to adequately deal with issues stemming from their childhood. I pity the kids lives right now. They will be the brunt of all evil jokes about their family lives. My dear LionMicha, you are either so naive or just plain stupid to think that ‘well, what is done is done. Let’s get on with our lives’ You have broken the kids spirit, their pride, lets not even go there about family life. YOU betrayed your wife, you have caused her this depression. SHE was forced into this wife swapping by YOU because she loved you and she wanted to make YOU happy. Therefore she participated in this whole affair. She never thought that you would use this wife swapping to your advantage and get rid of her permanently.This wife swapping travesty is an eye opener to other couples wanting to indulge in it to spice up their sex lives. In most situations, as in this one as well, one partner selectively pressurises the other to indulge, the one has more to gain and the one actually betrays you in the end. Instead of looking at involving others in your bedroom, start investing in your marriage. You see partner exclusivity is what we are used to. Only VERY MATURE ADULTS can handle threesomes, wife- Swapping and the like. Only stable and trust worthy partners can withstand the introduction of other partners in the bedroom. Ordinary people like LionMischa and myself, should steer clear of it. Why? We are emotionally stupid, we do not set boundaries, we think it is so easy in the movies. What is the end result. We corrupt !!!!!.We destroy!!!!!We betray!!!!We hurt and we humiliate the very people we claimed to have loved in the first place. What we do not realise is that our actions not only destroy our partners IT ALSO DESTROYS OUR CHILDREN and when we do this we are no better than the evil lowlifes we claim we care not! In the end when we cannot get our Childrens RESPECT what do we have anyway? You have embarrassed and destroyed those closest to you, how the hell can you live so ordinarily with yourself. Time to do some REAL soul searching Mr. LionMischa. One day you will have to answer, TO THE KIDS. I pray that your wife heals from this betrayal. I am not concerned about you . You are resilient. You know if this doesn’t pan out, you will taste the fruit of another woman. Your post have revealed so much about you. Do you know yourself. Who is the real you. Pretty soon this other woman will not be enough for you, you will yet again seek the excitement, the thrill of the forbidden. It is only a matter of time before you start exploring other options as well. That , my friend, is a guarantee! [you would have noticed that i have not focused on the new lust interest YOU HAVE. Her time is running out anyway, so she is blissfully unaware that her new stablemate is looking for a new playmate. Those thoughts are running rampant in your mind and YOU know it.]As always i have a lot to say. Thank you for taking the time to read this LONG POST.
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reader, _Anonyy_  +, writes (5 November 2009):
For starters I just want to say that no matter the situation be it three-sums, four-sums, wife swapping WHATEVER, someone (unless you're a robot) Is going to eventually get hurt.
Its normal to think you can handle something like sex with another person when your significant other is also down for this play. In fact most would probably say it was exciting, of coarse because its so "spur of the moment".
When you're saying your sex life is boring and you don't make love then you're already vulnerable to the captivating world of emotions. This is never good. The last thing you need is something to taint your feelings, you see, because they already are. Thinking your love life is going nowhere just makes way to your mind and sooner or later Unhappiness has rented space in your mind. You start to convince yourself it really. Just. Isn't gonna happen. Most likely in this case your ex had thought it really would and that's why she is not in love with your now "true love" to says ex. Because she still upset about you. You had also said you guys had talked about it adding "spice" to your love. People do crazy things when in the grips of love and otherwise, and now you almost fantasize of being with others.
Again, normal in these circumstances.
From past experience I cant tell you what to do but only advise you to think about these things:
1) Do you really love each other? Or is this lust?
2) Is all this worth the love you have for this woman?
3) Are you going to be able to trust each other?
4)what happens when you guys want to "spice" up your relationship? What then?
With time you might find these questions will answer themselves but before I bid you a due, I might throw in that you and your "new true love" might consider relationship counseling to instill trust in one another because when it comes to relationships like these you might find each other worrying about falling in love with someone else and leaving just like before.
When it all comes down, only time and wise thinking can tell you whats to happen of this love. As for others, they will eventually stop talking so much about you, or they might not. Your ex's will certainly hold this against you for a long while it is your choice to fall prey to their hurtful words. If you are in love, then that's that.
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reader, LionMicha +, writes (4 November 2009):
LionMicha is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthank you so much quiet-echo !You don't know how good it feels to have someone reassure you in what you have done. I just pray each and every night for the exs to be full of joy and happy again. Thanks again and may God bless you!
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