A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I was thinking about my wife's past (again) and experiencing retroactive jealousy. I'm trying to root this out of me. It is the wise thing to do. Anyhow, I want to know what others going through this think of what I'm about to write. Recently I wrote down some positive truths to refute negative thinking. I liked where I was going, so I wrote them down and keep them close. I read and reread them. What do you think?Here goes:1. Many of the men in your life that you admire and respect did not marry virgins. As well as George Washington and Brad Pitt. Some men you know did marry virgins, their marriages failed. 2. My wife has done things with me, that she hasn't done with other men. And the things that she has done with other men, we do better because we know each other's bodies like no one else has.3. Your wife loves you very deeply and has proven it many times over.4. Chill out. The only one looking down on you is you. 5. Your wife was not a teenager when you met her. Be realistic.6. You have little girl/s. Would you ever look down on them or love them any less because they had sex? Your father-in-law loves his daughter just as deeply. Observe this. 7. You have had more sexual experience than your wife. Why are you the jealous one?8. If those other guys really "rocked her world," she probably would have been with one of them instead of me. She clearly enjoys what I do to her and loves me.I would love more thoughts from anyone else - maybe some truth that others might relate to.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (27 February 2013): Dear Serpico. Seeing as how the OP 's wife would have to bear the brunt of his RJ gone out of control, and she is a woman, I don't see why a woman's perspective is invalid in this discussion as you state.
Furthermore I don't believe there are male and female specific mental health issues. Mental health problems, like physical illnesses, can and do affect both genders. Insecurity affects both men and women. Perpetuating gender stereotypes does not help us advance forward.
A
male
reader, Serpico +, writes (26 February 2013):
Female anon - I dont know how else to put it than you dont get this, and my guess is its because you are a woman.Everything you have written I can see is purely from a womans perspective - sentences like "Perhaps it would be more productive to examine WHY you even think that a woman's virginity is a relevant thing to define a woman by." All I can say is relative to RJ, statements like this mean nothing because it is not how we think relative to this issue.I do applaud you for trying, but I truly believe women have little or nothing to add to this issue because most simply cannot understand it. Its like a man trying to understand PMS. Its not accusatory - RJ is a product of male evolution, it would be very short sighted of me to say its any womans fault because they cannot see it like a man does.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (26 February 2013): I find a few the points on your list interesting, and maybe a bit disturbing too:#1 "Many of the men in your life that you admire and respect did not marry virgins. As well as George Washington and Brad Pitt. Some men you know did marry virgins, their marriages failed. "it seems that you are trying to convince yourself that it's OK not to marry a virgin because it doesn't seem to be a reliable indicator of the success or worth of the MAN. maybe this is missing the point? Perhaps it would be more productive to examine WHY you even think that a woman's virginity is a relevant thing to define a woman by, let alone to define the man she is with. instead of trying to downplay the correlation between a woman's virginity and her husband's success (after all I'm sure there are successful men who did in fact marry virgins and maybe were virgins themselves when they married their wives), why not instead go to the root of the issue which is why is her virginity (but somehow not his) is even on the table as a factor in the first place?Also, along these lines why do you not also consider WOMEN you respect and admire? Are there any women you respect and admire, whether public figures or leaders or athletes or whatnot? Women who have made history and shown great acts of heroism? Do you think that it matters whether they were virgins when they got married or not? or do you only see women as an extension of their husbands?#2 "My wife has done things with me, that she hasn't done with other men. And the things that she has done with other men, we do better because we know each other's bodies like no one else has."So basically here you are trying to convince yourself that you are 'superior' to the other men in bed. Why do you need to be superior to a man who is no longer in the picture and whom you've never even met and whom your wife has long ago ceased to care about, is it even possible to compare and measure and determine who is superior in this area? The thing is, this doesn't leave room for the truth, IF the truth is that your wife really did enjoy sleeping with them a lot maybe just as much as with you. This line of thinking might lead to you peppering your wife with questions about what her past lovers did or did not do in bed, and she will feel pressured to give you answers you want to hear and then you might worry she isn't being sincere and tensions are maintained. The point is, why not take an approach that allows for the truth WHATEVER it is, so you are not threatened by it, and is not predicated upon the need for you you to be 'superior' to all her past lovers. Stop making it a competition.#6 "You have little girl/s. Would you ever look down on them or love them any less because they had sex? Your father-in-law loves his daughter just as deeply. Observe this."There are some unspoken assumptions here. Why *would* a father have any cause to view his daughter differently when she has started having sex and is a grown married woman with a family of her own now? Why do you need to consciously remind yourself that your wife's father loves her? Why wouldn't he? what is it that he could possibly take exception to yet is surprising that he isn't?#7 "You have had more sexual experience than your wife. Why are you the jealous one?"Exactly. Why? It's great that you're asking yourself this question, I'm just curious to know what your explanation to yourself is. Why are you not upset that you were not a virgin when you met your wife?#8 "If those other guys really "rocked her world," she probably would have been with one of them instead of me. She clearly enjoys what I do to her and loves me."Here you assume that a woman chooses who to marry based purely on how good he is in bed. Maybe this is true of your wife (you know her better than any of us here). But again it doesn't leave room for the truth IF the truth is that yes another man "rocked her world" yet she chose not to continue the relationship for reasons having nothing to do with how good he was in bed. Maybe she thought he was selfish or unintelligent or untrustworthy. why are character traits of so little significance to you in measuring yourself against her past lovers?
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (23 February 2013):
 Anon female, I would hug you. Mwaah ! Consider yourself kissed.
RJ- at least, this level of RJ, is a mental health issue and as such it needs the intervention of a competent professional- a psychiatrist.
This does not mean that the OP is kookoo and he needs a straight jacket. It means that it is pointless to lose track of the real issue as it often happens in RJ threads, and start discepting about the value of verginity- and the sex of angels , when ANY disturbing, uncontrollable series of distressing thoughts that consume too much time and energy , cause pain, and interfere with the normal functioning and ENJOYMENT of daily social and relational activities is a mental health issue ( like OCD ). It needs therapeutic intervention.
It is secondary whether the issue is REALLY a big deal or a small deal. If you were a war veteren who has seen carnage and destruction, and would have continuous , intrusive thoughts about it and would develop post traumatic stress disorder, everybody would accept that it actually IS a big deal and you are not fussing over trifles, YET you'd still need a psychiatrist and, possibly, medications.
Kudoos to the OP for bravely trying to keep his problem under control in the most rational ,sensible and enlightened way he can, and having come up with his list , thatt's more than many RJ sufferers would bother to do.
But OCD is not about smartness or rationality , or being convinced . One can grasp with his rational brain that his thoughts and behaviours are incorret and dysfunctional ; and yet being unable to let them go, and feel compelled to rehash them again and again. It's here that it's shrink time,- all the rest is fried air.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 February 2013): I don't have any advice for you just more questions (I am the previous poster who asked if you have gender bias) to provoke more introspection: Yes another man was her first sexual partner. So what? My first sexual experience was so boring I cannot even remember it now! Your wife probably places zero significance on it. If its not significant to her then why should it be to you? I don't know any man personally who places a high premium on being some random woman's first sexual partner. So I doubt her first partner goes around bragging about having had sex with her. He probably doesn't remember it either. Why the attaching of symbolic importance to a woman's virginity? What's so special about it? Yes she had a casual sexual partner in the past. So what? You did too, didn't you? Casual means not important to her. Maybe he was better at sex than you. Maybe not. SO WHAT? Why is this important? Is your sense of self worth defined solely by having to be "the best" at having sex? (Whatever that means?)Do you think that having sex with a woman means you "own " her? (Therefore other men having sex with your wife in the past means you cannot claim to own her) Do you think that having sex is the most significant characteristic of a person or relationship? It seems you don't worry whether her previous partners were richer, more athletic, more handsome or more intelligent than you, you only care that they had sex. You don't imagine your wife swooning over their suave romantic gestures or good looks and getting swept off her feet by them, the images in your mind are purely about sexual intercourse. You don't imagine her snuggling and cuddling with a previous partner in bed feeling all warm and cozy in his arms, that doesn't threaten you, rather you only imagine her private parts in contact with his and feel threatened by that. Perhaps for you love and sex are completely separate. And sex is more important to you than love?
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 February 2013): "The biggest issue with her past that I have is that she had a casual sexual partner. This one stings very deeply. It feels to me as if this man is better than me on some level. "But you hadn't even met your wife yet, so how can she have chosen him over you if she didn't even know you existed?if you mean that a casual partner is 'better' than a marriage partner, then why? Would you prefer if your wife had decided not to marry you and instead just wanted to be casual FWB's? Do you think that would mean you are 'better'? I think you have excellent points on your list, but it looks like your imagination runs completely wild and rampant and out of control (visualizing her hymen being broken by another man? that is something practically no woman ever thinks about let alone attaches any emotional significance to). Yours sounds more like a psychiatric (i.e. a medical) problem. Cognitive approaches like your list of talking points are good for mild to moderate cases of anxiety, but are no match for biological-based drives. you may need to work with a psychiatrist, possibly use some medication, to calm down your brain so it doesn't spiral out of your control anymore. (and let's face it, your list is good but you are still out of control of your thoughts.) I'm not a psychiatrist, but it sounds like you have an anxiety disorder as well as obsessive compulsive disorder. I've had family members who had both, and I see similarities with what you describe although the subject of the anxiety and obsession is different. You ruminate on the subject of your anxiety, your thoughts get more and more obsessive, more frequent, and it takes less and less to 'trigger' a thought which then becomes like a runaway train triggering other thoughts and escalating your anxiety and once it starts you cannot turn them off (or at least not without having to move a mountain which is incredibly exhausting to do on a daily basis if not impossible), then you end up having a full blown panic attack.Retroactive jealousy is one thing. Having panic attacks from visualizing your wife's hymen being broken, is WAY beyond just retroactive jealousy, it's more OCD that is the problem. OCD can be very effectively treated with medication, the results can be almost immediate calming of the brain and just significant reduction in the obsessive thoughts. I don't mean to be offensive, I'm just saying that I think you have a far more serious and fundamental problem than simply "jealousy." And I think you need to get professional help if you want to have any chance of feeling SIGNIFICANTLY better some time during your life time.Like I said, I have family members who have struggled with OCD and anxiety disorders and it takes a toll on family members and spouses, not just you, because you dont' live in a vacuum you have other people involved. But in your case, since the subject of your negative thoughts is YOUR WIFE, I think the potential of hurting your marriage is extremely high. If you cannot control your negative thoughts about your wife, and they are frequent and intense, then how can you be truly intimate with her and fully present during the moment? Thoughts and emotions drive behavior. How can your behavior toward your wife not change negatively as a result of these intense and frequent negative thoughts about her?I would venture a guess that your marriage is going to seriously suffer sooner or later (if it hasn't already) if you don't make a significant (not just marginal) improvement in quelling these thoughts about your wife, and I think that psychiatric treatment might be the only way given the nature of those thoughts....I apologize if I have offended you, as your question was about your list. Yes I think you have a good list. Definitely you should keep it and continue to use it. I just don't think it's enough. And I also would hate to think that your marriage would fall apart and your wife be hurt when she has done no wrong, because you did not get the right treatment or it came too late when the emotional toll has already become irreversible...
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A
female
reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86  +, writes (22 February 2013):
"If she had sex with a person with a vile personality, which I don't believe to be the case, it would be all that more painful."
No, she will appreciate a better personality more, some women don't find out until they have made the mistake of sleeping with them that they aren't that nice.
"The biggest issue with her past that I have is that she had a casual sexual partner. This one stings very deeply. It feels to me as if this man is better than me on some level."
How? He was casual, casual means nothing special doesn't it? WOMEN ARE EMOTIONAL: A better personality wins every time.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (18 February 2013):
 Personally for me the most intimate part of my body is my brain and my heart... not my body.
I can control my brain and my heart...
just saying.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (18 February 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Funluvver was spot on. A good sexual experience is completely irrelevant if the person who it was with had a vile personality."If she had sex with a person with a vile personality, which I don't believe to be the case, it would be all that more painful.That she would give the most intimate part of her body to someone who doesn't deserve it?!The biggest issue with her past that I have is that she had a casual sexual partner. This one stings very deeply. It feels to me as if this man is better than me on some level.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): Remember that your wife has chosen you above all other men, above the people she knew in the past. And you both have made a life together. Keep strong x
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A
female
reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (16 February 2013):
I think you should only be bothered about a person's past from a moral point of view.
Funluvver was spot on. A good sexual experience is completely irrelevant if the person who it was with had a vile personality.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Billy Ray Valentine," your words touched me man! SIncerely, that was a well thought, heartfelt answer. I liked it very much.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"She equates love with your non-sexual behaviors such as how you treat your kids, your thoughtfulness towards her, your general attitude"
Ever since I have recently stepped it up around the house and put on a happy face (even when I feel TERRIBLE), I have gotten more sex.
"I would stop assuming that she has nostalgia about her past sexual experiences as much as you have about your own...women don't work that way."
I will think on that thought, thanks.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAs I write this, I am having a panic attack thinking on those images again.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"do you have a double standard regarding gender roles and expectations? in other words do you perhaps deep down inside believe that women shouldn't sleep around at all but it's OK for men?"
This is a good question. My answer is yes, kind of. But sincerely, it is just the thought that some other guy may have pleased my wife and she wanted it...Why is that so hard for me to swallow? I think a large part of it has to do with the fact that I am such a 'visual' person. I visualize these images very strongly. It is not pleasant at all.
Back to the 'Are you a chauvinist?' point you make. Well isn't it different for men and women? If it was universally viewed the same for both sexes then women wouldn't downplay their number, and men wouldn't inflate theirs. That is just one example. Also as a very visual and depression-prone person, the thought of my wife's hymen breaking and some man out there knowing that only he can ever have that experience of being her first....It is like a very primal-like involuntary revulsion. And it seems to hurt even more, in an evil way, whenever I think of the idea of some guy talking with his buddy about the time a woman gave him her virginity. And he is talking about my wife...
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question'So Very Confused,' thanks for the encouragement.
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A
female
reader, So_Very_Confused +, writes (16 February 2013):
I don't much get the whole RJ thing and I try hard to understand it.
OP I think your list is AWESOME... have it made into a counted cross stitch... frame it and read it every day..
You sir, I tip my hat to! You are being the most proactive I've ever seen in trying to work on what you clearly see as your problem.
Congrats to you! Keep up the good work....
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (16 February 2013): you have really good points on your list, well done!
I especially agree with the one about since YOU have been with more people than she has therefore you really have no 'right' to be jealous of her. I'm wondering if maybe you should delve more into this one. do you have a double standard regarding gender roles and expectations? in other words do you perhaps deep down inside believe that women shouldn't sleep around at all but it's OK for men? I would explore that one further because I think this could be a key issue in why you feel so jealous. After all, you don't beat yourself up for having slept with other women before your wife, correct? if you didn't harbor some chauvinistic beliefs you would simply grant her the same "free pass" that you grant yourself.
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A
male
reader, Funluvver +, writes (16 February 2013):
Remember, women do not equate love with sex. Sex is a tool for them to get what they want: children, affection, understanding, etc.
She equates love with your non-sexual behaviors such as how you treat your kids, your thoughtfulness towards her, your general attitude, and of course, all women love a strong sense of humor.
So I would stop assuming that she has nostalgia about her past sexual experiences as much as you have about your own...women don't work that way. "Rocking her world" will not make her more attracted to a man from her past. That is a short-lived experience that she has long forgotten.
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A
male
reader, Serpico +, writes (16 February 2013):
As a suffer of RJ, I would have to say that is a very good list. Nice work.
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A
male
reader, BillyRayValentine +, writes (16 February 2013):
Personally, I don't really believe in retroactive jealousy. But hey, that’s just me. People can be jealous for anything and everything it’s just labelling one more emotion. Humans have emotions for all kinds of reasons. Based on our personal beliefs, how we were raised, our expectations for ourselves and others in our life and on and on and on. No shame in your personal beliefs, and looking for someone who feels the same (as long as these feelings are not criminal in nature).Example I might simply not like the fact the girl I'm dating used to be an alcoholic. I'm allowed my opinions, my beliefs. What’s important is not leading somebody on, hiding information about yourself, that you know the other person might want to know.Another example, a woman might be on a dating a man and she has a Master’s Degree in Business and runs a great business making six figures. Him she finds out did not get a Master’s Degree, actually makes 40,000 year. It might be a great guy to date, but for her maybe the income, education, might be a deal breaker. She is allowed her opinions, her beliefs of what she wants, and what she is comfortable with from a mate. I mean he can't go back 20 years and change his choices.These issues don't deal with "Sexual Past", but they dealt with a past and choices, we all have a past, for all kinds of reasons we make good and bad choices. Your issue is sex related, not job, not money, not addiction issues with your wife; but just her sexual past.And personally, from my perspective, it's fine to feel the way you’re feeling. Reading your post you obviously really love your wife very much. And, you’re finding ways to process out your thoughts, your feelings, and deal with it in a positive way. We all have a right to feel the way we feel. To not be ladled as having some issue when dealing with personal beliefs. Nothing wrong with not wanting to be with a person who has had 50 sexual partners upon meeting them at 30 years old. I personally would not call that Jealousy. That is just not for me, not what I'm looking for.Again my personal belief only. But, People are routinely getting involved with people that while they have great chemistry in so many areas, and physically attracted to each other to top it all off, ignore major issues on your personal beliefs.I see it all the time. Guy meets girl, fall in love ignore all the issues and then say years later I'm upset about her not finishing college, or I'm upset that she had sex with 40 men before me.Hey you had your chance to ask all the questions you wanted to do all the investigating your heart desired during the dating process. If things pop up that make you feel uncomfortable about someone or is not what you’re looking for in a partner, simply move on! Nothing wrong with that. Too many people meet someone and they hit it off and bam they are looking at this person through "Rose Colored Glasses". Nobody’s a perfect fit, but if the person you are with has been honest with about who they were before you, who they are with you, and who they want to be, then you got nothing to complain about, and feel lucky as hell you found somebody who completes you, and makes you happy.About me, well I've been married for some time now. I'm Married to a great women with a crazy sexual past, sure we have had some problems, worked through them when they popped up like any marriage. But, when it comes to her sexual past who the hell cares. Has she had bigger "ding a lings", of course! Had lots of great sex with other men in her life, of course! Had bad sex, of course! Really liked guys before me that she wished had called her after sleeping with her, of course! Gee, I'm not God's gift to women.The point is for me and her sexual past, who the hell cares! We came into each other’s lives at a moment in time when we would work, when we could connect. If I met my wife at 20 I would have probably been the guy I was then, not ready to settle down but horny as hell. We would not have worked, but the sex would have been great! Well for me at least, I don't know that I was all that good at sex at 20.But, meeting years later after all our crazy individual experiences in life, like jobs, parties, friendship, death, break-ups, hook-ups, one night stands, falling in love, out of love, we then came into each other’s life at a moment when we would both work for each other.For me, life is too short to worry about sexual past be it 10 past partners or 100. Who the hell cares? I'm living for today and looking forward to the future. Because I'm blessed that my wife likes to have sex with me alllll the time!!! I have so many friends who's wives had slept with only a few people before getting married and they are having sex like once or twice a month at best, some its months!When you find somebody you love to spend your days and nights with and can be 100% open personally and sexually, about our life before each other, and now with each other, that is a bond, a truly strong marriage. Built on true love, rare love, trust, respect, honesty, and devotion for each other.Love your wife man! Treat her with the Love and Respect she deserves, But whatever you want to call the way you’re feeling put it to bed, today! Get on with your life together... And once and for all realize just how damn lucky you are!
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