A
male
age
22-25,
*orge
writes:Hello aunts and uncles, forge here. I have realised that in society today, things between men and women are getting very ridiculous, and I want to know why. These are some points I think are good, and I'm sure someone out there will agree. This is going to be in a list for easy reading/answering.1. Sex and it's statusWhy is it that if a guy gets laid (first time or not) his friends and brothers (assuming he has any) see it as an accomplishment, and are proud of him, but when women have sex, her peers see it as a sin and get mad at her and talk bad about her? I can't understand that in the slightest. Also, why do girls think a guy is a player just because he's had sex? (Player is a relative term).2. Clothing vs societyI've asked several women and men on this, and always get mixed answers, I even have my own opinion with this, and it annoys me.Why is it that a girl wears clothing that may be a bit flashy, but nothing incredibly revealing, and all other girls call her a "slut" or "whore" just for wearing something a bit more appealing? I know they wear it for guys to look at them, which I understand.When guys wear flashy (or as far as that can possibly go) clothes, no one gives even the slightest care, why aren't they ragged on?Also, with girls that wear "revealing" clothing, and guys take a look at their cleavage, they get mad. Like this: Girl: "don't look at my boobs!" And they're seriously on the brink of showing them. If you don't want guys looking at you, don't wear that! Common sense!3: insults over genderWhy do girls get so offended when they get called a name or insulted, even when it's untrue? With guys, if we get called something, instead of getting sad, we either don't give 2 sh*ts, or we beat the insulter until they cry. Why do we do that?4. FemininityWhen a guy acts (or is) a bit feminine, he gets called "gay" or "fag" by all the other guys, and when a girl acts a bit masculine, all the other girls think she's some freak from Pluto. Why do people seem to act so mean when someone is or acts suggestively like the other gender?5. Social statusWhy do we often see popular girls in the schools getting much more attention for a problem (say her boyfriend broke up with her) vs a girl that is "nerdy" for literally the same problems? This translates for guys, but I very rarely see it.6 (finally). CliquesThere's the nerds, the jocks, preppy's, greasers, geeks, punks, it goes on. What's the point of this social rating system? To make one group feel worse than yours? I end up in the nerds or punks. I get called names in the hallway, and I don't even care, because to me, being in a clique or group is (although unavoidable) absolutely pointless.This is a long one, possibly my longest yet, and I'd like to know what the rest of the people outside of my friends think.Thanks for your answers!-Førg€-
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (22 August 2014): 1. Sex and it's statusIn Western society, which was founded on religious beliefs, women were the subordinate sex. They were expected to bear children, be good mothers, be obedient wives - that's it. Women were in the private sphere. It wasn't until the 1900s that women began to really enter the public sphere. Even then. A woman who sleeps around was perceived as bad wife material and sometimes even a prostitute. Women who talked a lot in public were actually believed to be prostitutes. Women were also viewed as temptress and evil creatures who seduced men and made them stray from a holy life. Thus, if a woman sleeps around, she lacks values and is depraved. 2. Clothing vs societyDue to the socially ingrained expectations of women, women who revealed too much skin would be considered temptresses and whores. That's why BOTH men and women degrade women who dress less conservatively. Also, a lot of people think if a woman shows too much skin, she's "asking for it." Asking for attention, sexual advances, etc...WHICH is not always true. Also, women don't dress ONLY for men. Men need to get over that. Women like to dress up for themselves! To impress other women. To impress their friends. To make them feel good about themselves and if it catches attention from guys - hurray!3. insults over genderWomen are conditioned to express themselves, so they will be visibly more upset if offended. And honestly, if they hear sexist jokes, it's hard not to be offended. Men are conditioned to be tough. On the inside, they might get upset and have a bruised ego, but they won't show it. If they do, they'll either insult the person back, act aggressive to reassert their dominance, etc...This doesn't apply to everyone. But, it's a societal norm. 4. FemininityGender roles. That's why. Women are expected to be feminine. If she isn't, she's not a real woman. She might be a lesbian. Men are expected to be masculine - bringing home to bacon. If he doesn't act masculine, he's not a real man. He's gay. Everything goes back to traditional gender roles, outdated notions of women and their sexual, evil nature, and men who are supposed to be the breadwinners of the world.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (21 August 2014): People didn't become so messed up, they always have been.
The two sexes have different bodies. So evolution tuned their feelings to cause them different behaviors in the mating game.
Why are guys pressured to have sex and girls pressured not to? Because girls reproduce most effectively when they choose the best partners, not have lots of different partners. But guys reproduce most effectively when they have the most different partners, as long as they are fertile girls. Just about everything you talk about has natural answers like this.
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A
female
reader, ImissFuturama +, writes (20 August 2014):
 1.) Guys don't get praised as much as you think for sleeping around. They get labeled as womanizers, dogs, and many other unflattering words. "Player" is not a compliment, either. That's saying a guy uses girls for sex. People also make assumptions that if a guy had one partner at a young enough age, it means he sleeps around. This may not be the case, but some people will assume. Girls get judged more harshly because they are the ones to get pregnant. It's seen more "unwise" for a girl to sleep around than a guy. 2.) Girls call other girls sluts and whores out of jealousy. It's likely they are insecure, and don't feel they look as good as the flashy dressing girls. Insulting them makes the less flashy ones feel better. It's not right, but that's the reason for it. To them, admitting another girl looks good is admitting "defeat". It momentarily makes them feel better to put her down instead.When girls get angry about guys looking at their cleavage, it likely means they aren't getting attention from the guys they want it from. If they're getting attention from guys they don't find attractive, they will find it creepy. If they get attention from guys they're interested in, that's a different story. Or it's possible they just don't feel they should have to hide their body in order to not be gawked at. What they don't realize is whether they like it or not, that's just the way it is. People will look at attractive people, so if they're wearing a low cut top and their boobs look good, guys are going to look. Some are pervs about it (ogling, leching, etc). However, many know enough to take a quick look, and have that be it. I also think some girls pretend not to like the attention, because they fear it will make them seem desperate. 3.) Girls are more sensitive than guys by nature. Some aren't, as there are exceptions to every rule. Even if something isn't true, if someone is hearing it often enough, they will start to believe it is. You can't really expect someone (especially someone very young and impressionable) to be told on a daily basis they are ugly, fat, etc, and have them not eventually start to believe it. On the other hand, guys are trained to hide their emotions at a very early age, so later on it comes natural for them.I think insults bother them more than they like to admit. I'm not saying that's the case for ALL guys, but quite a few.4.) People have trouble accepting what is different from the "norm". I don't have an answer as to why, but I've noticed that's how many people are. People apparently just don't know how to deal with "different" people. It's probably because they don't understand them. 5.) This question answers itself. Being "popular" or having many friends will obviously get you more attention than someone who doesn't have quite as many friends. I also tend to think these girls are a bit more outspoken about their problems, because they like being in the spotlight. I'm not trying to stereotype, but some girls ARE like that. They get more attention than others because they seek it. 6.) Cliques exist because of the different types of people. People tend to hang out with other people who they have a lot in common with. A label is just a way of describing them.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (20 August 2014): 1) Sex and Status:
Guys having sex for the first time doesn't get that much attention anymore; because no one knows if he's lying. It depends on the girl's religious-upbringing and the family-values set by her parents and community. Society knows how she'll be treated, if she gives off the wrong signals to guys who don't respect boundaries. If she still lives at home she's closely watched for her protection. Girls can get pregnant; or can be over-powered and raped. She may not get a standing-ovation for having casual-sex. Guys don't either; if he is gross, reckless, and disgusting about sex. It's not like it was when I was your age. It doesn't seem to raise as much concern that she has had sex; as it does if she is having "unprotected-sex!" Aside from sexually transmitted diseases. Becoming a mother too young; can harm her under-developed body and change her whole future. She may have to delay her dreams. That doesn't happen to boys.
2) Clothing vs Society
Guys and girls get equal attention for dressing fashionable. Maybe not so much at 13, as when they're older. It's only when they dress oddly that anyone seems to care. If a girl wears revealing clothing, men and boys will not behave right around her. She might not like the type of attention she gets, so showing too much is showing she has little respect for herself. So she gets less respect from others. Society sets double-standards for girls and women. Sometimes it's for their protection. Ladies who sell their bodies like to show too much of it. So girls and women who don't want to be mistaken for those types of women, shouldn't show too much or look cheap like they do.
There is nothing wrong or cheap about showing cleavage.
There is such a thing as exposing too much cleavage. The reason is usually to get attention; so they can pretend it bothers them.
3) Insults over gender:
Neither guys nor girls want to be called a b*tch! Either gender will sock you in the face. Especially if they know it isn't true. Nobody likes insults. People react differently. Some are violent and some ignore stupidity.
4) Femininity
Old-school thinking is sometimes backward, and they like to judge people for being different. Rules were set for how genders are supposed to behave by all societies. Some societies accept more than others. If a guy is effeminate around ignorant guys, they will be teased or might get hurt.
That's old-school ignorance passed-down. Nowadays, most people know better than to bully and tease. It's hard to get rid of that ignorance. It comes and goes. Now we have laws to protect people from that kind of ignorance. Girls who have masculine ways get teased just like guys who are effeminate. There is very little difference around stupid people.
5) Social Status:
Pretty girls get attention and are popular, because they are pretty. If you're popular, your problems are more public. If your problem is a tragedy; everyone cares no matter what you look like or whether you're popular.
6) Cliques:
Humans are social-animals. They hang in packs and groups; because we are like our primitive ancestors, and other primates. We group with those we feel comfortable around.
We pair-off with people we have more in-common with naturally; because we can relate and communicate easier.
Humans are inherently (passed down as a normal trait) and genetically-wired to be this way. It is only bad, when one group is prejudiced and combative against another.
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A
male
reader, olderthandirt  +, writes (20 August 2014):
 What a sad commentary from what sounds like a very jaded point of view. ou present a negative narrative from the eye of a young girl struggling for answers on just how to fit in to a confusing world of teenage years morphing into yog adult. I feel badly for you and your preconcieved notions on how others think about certain things. Truth be told there are more questions than there are answers. Growing up is very hard to do. While I agree there are many inconsitancies with how the sexes see things but in a way that's a beautiful thing. The mysteries of life cannot be told in a few sentances. There are no solid answer to your quizical mind. It's a brave new world out there. Taske your questions with you whereever you go and question everything. when you look back ten years from now you'll still be wondering how and why. But that's the fun of it all.
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A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (19 August 2014):
 I think that you paint things by a very wide brush. Of course you can inly draw from your own experience, but I hope you realize that your experience is not the same for the rest of the world, or of USA, or of your State, or perhaps even of your toen. If it is ( all your town thinks this way ) pardon me for coming off as jaded or patronizing, but... then it must be a quite provincial, parrochial, narrow minded place.
1 ) Sex and status. Never heard of anything like that ! And mind you, my sexual first exploits were in the 70's !, so... Never ever witnessed a reaction like that. As a matter of fact, all we girls sort of egged on each other to do stuff( not that now I am proud of it ), we sort of cheered for each other's sexual coming of age, and we even had this little barbarous , tribal ritual of celebrating each lost V- card with cake , drinks and raunchy humour . High fives and pats on the back all around : which if you want was an immature , silly way of banalizing what should be a serious, important, intimate , delicate moment in the life of a woman, yet the point is- no slut shaming among the girls. Let some stupid MALE ( not that I have met many , luckily ) see being sexually active as a shame or a flaw- not the girls for sure !
2 ) Clothing. Ditto. Never witnessed what you say. If we are talking about "normally" flashy , sexy but not too revealing attire, i.e. just like what you'd wear for going to a private party on a Saturday- ( and not like what a street walker desperate for business would wear ), no problem and no critiques from the sisters. Obviously there may be some snide remark, some not too benevolent comment ( in the line of " it looks like cleavage but it's all Wonderbra " or " she should not wear miniskirts with those knobby kness " - that's generally jealousy and envy for someone perceived as a potential rival , but that's normal female competition :)
As for men's attire- I really don't know, where I am from men are finicky about dressing, and vain as much as the women or more, so nobody would rag them on if they dress to impress, because MOST people dress to impress. They'd rag them on if they went around all grunge , or dorky !
Boobs- part of boobs are exposed to male looks, yes. But to be looked at is not the same as to be stared at. Just looking , discreetly, is a sign of admiration, a compliment to your beauty , staring boobs is a jerky, wankerish, even slightly threatening thing to do.
Even your face, Firge, is out for all the world to see, you don't go around with a veil on your face, I guess- but I am sure you would have objections if people just stared at you, drinking you with their eyes as if you were some sideshow freak !
3 ) Insults- it does not matter if the insult corresponds to truth or not ! what they challenge is your right to insult them. Who do you think you are to go around insulting girls that maybe you do not even know that well ? How do even presume that you are allowed do that ?... Besides , girls in general do not have the option to just beat the crap out of you and shut you up, which, as you note, is what takes care of the problem half of the times among boys. The other half, the half that does not care,.. maybe guys are just more naturally thick-skinned, or they are used / trained to relate to each other in this brutal way ( which girls are not ), so it's all even, I call you Mo.......cker , you call me the same, it's all par for the course. I would suggest you , though, " don't try this out of home "- go abroad ,or just out of your schoolyard, and other young males could take a much less tolerant attitude toward being called names by a stranger. I am pretty sure thay would.
4 ) Femininity : that would be a looong one to answer, but in the shortest and superficial way : because some societies still have a big problem with homosexuality and anything that suggests it. An homosexual is a minority, he /she is " different ", not integrated into the heard, and everything that it perceived as different, alien, not integrated by a society is scary and threatening .
This too, let me tell you though,bro, but where do you live ?... It sounds like the scene from Easy Rider where country people harass Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper ..... but that too, was a movie from the late 60's !, I thought we had made some progress since then ?!...
5 ) I don't know, I really have not enough direct experience of that . I would surmise ,it's for the same reason why, according to researchers, people who are attractive and have personal charm get treated better in the workplace than just average Joes and average Janes. Unjust , of course, but physical beauty, style, personal charisma, self confidence... have SOCIAL clout . Like, if you look good, dress well, and act cool, you are PERCEIVED as more worthy of attention and interest.
6 ) If it is pointless, why are you in one ? unavoidable ? nothing is unavoidable, just death and taxes. Teenagers may act tough, but , as it's natural, they are not that tough and they do not feel so secure and at ease in a world that they just started tentatively to explore, so , since there's safety in numbers, it's rather normal that they seek securuty, validation, protection and comfort by belonging to a group. It's frequent but it is not inavoidable. If you do not want to belong to a clique - just be your own person and do your own thing.How can they prevent you ?
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