A
male
age
,
*rad_from_NJ
writes:Should I just accept this guy will be a primary friend in her life? Or is there more?Sorry for the length.My GF is recently divorced, I'm separated (my divorce final w/in 3 mos). We're both in our 40's. We dated back in high school/college, re-connected via the web a year ago. I'm currently living several hundred miles away, but will relocate to her area as soon as possible. We've been traveling between her place and mine, getting together every 4-6 weeks. We talk almost daily by phone (but sometimes only for a few moments to say hi).One thorny issue.There's a married male co-worker (her supervisor's boss) she's become extremely chummy with. She swears they're friends only. I believe there's been no physical relationship. I appreciate her honesty in telling me of the friendship. When I first heard this, I told her I was a little uncomfortable -- guys don't "need" female friends -- he might just be placing himself on her radar scope for the future. Her reply was "I don't want you feeling uneasy about this -- he and I are friends -- I won't mention his name again!" I told her I'd actually like MORE info, not less. She tried hard not to bring his name up for several weeks.Periodically, she'd slip...like they sometimes call each other on the cell before work, after work, in the evenings and weekends. And they've been out socially, too. The fact that she tells me this stuff, leads me to think nothing is happening ...physically.But I get the feeling that *emotionally* they're close. On my visit to see her this weekend, she told me that she wouldn't answer calls from friends, to focus on us. When her girl friends would call, she would tell me about those calls. But there were at least 6 or 7 calls where she'd pick up the ringing phone, look at it, then put the phone down again. I was curious and did a dumb thing. When she wasn't around, I snooped at her phone (OK, I wouldn't like it if someone did that to me...but I've nothing to hide). So this guy called her multiple times Friday night, Saturday and also Sunday) ...and left several text messages. The texts all seemed pretty innocent. Still, she's hiding this stuff.Honestly, I wished I had a few moments more to see if she called him, or sent texts to him in reply! She told me she was out on Thursday with friends, but, she neglected to say he was there too. I'm discovering this happens more than I'm told. She told me early on he was 32 or 33. I've now learned he's just 3 years younger us.When I first discussed this, she told me she "didn't want me to get upset/have my feelings hurt" and that "it's just a friendship, let it go."I've tried not bringing it up too often/pestering her about it. But, every time I bring this guy's name up (I want information...like how often do they talk), she gets extremely defensive, changes the subject, answers my question with her own ("if he had breasts instead of a penis, would you care?") and accuses me of "getting weird" or not trusting her. I only want to understand the extent/depth of the friendship. She doesn't want to give me an answer.Which makes me uncomfortable.We still talk nearly every day, but it's getting less and less. But, when we see each other in person, it's all smiles, kisses and "I love you's." And lots of great physical contact.So I'm confused.Told her this weekend I used to be a self-assured, funny, confident person. Lately I'm an insecure weenie, which is very unattractive.Thoughts?
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male
reader, Brad_from_NJ +, writes (25 June 2007):
Brad_from_NJ is verified as being by the original poster of the questionWell, in reply to "anonymous" from 6/25...I'm not really qualified to answer, but am sort of experiencing something similar. If you are checking his phone, he will continue to delete. Very likely, you'd be able to go online and pull up the history of the account, if you have online access.The two big questions (to him) become...what are you deleting, and why are you deleting (is there something you don't want me to see...is there something you feel you must hide)?I'd rather deal with it head on, instead of surreptitiously.But that's just me.If you really feel certain that something is happening here, and there is a lot of non-work-related communication going on, you may want to take a completely different approach. And that would be...don't confront. You may want to start a conversation this way: "I have no idea how much you communicate with this other person outside of work, only YOU know the real answer. What I would like you to do is simply take some time and THINK about how you would feel if I were communicating with another man -- to the same degree you are communicating with this other woman. And after you've had some time to think about that, maybe we should have a talk."That's a more risky approach, but will likely cut right to the heart if he has one.You KNOW he's been communicating with this woman, you may or may not know the degree, or extent. If he says he has "no problem" with the amount of time he spends, and all of the emotional energy he's diverting away from your relationship and into a relationship with another woman, then he should have nothing to hide, right? After all, he will say, they are "only friends" or "only talking about work." Why can't all that be out in the open?And then you probably DO have a problem.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 June 2007): I read your blog because my husband has worked with a female colleague for 18 years and I found out by chance a year ago that they were exchanging txt messages. He also frequently rings her on his way to work. Since then I have become obsessed with checking his phone. So he has started deleting them.What do you advise me to do?
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A
male
reader, eddie  +, writes (12 June 2007):
 Great reply Irish (as usual). Here's the deal. Before friendships, spouses or anything else, the law of the jungle exists. We are attracted to others. The only thing separating us from our attractions and our actions, are our commitments.
We are wired to be attracted to others. Without a doubt, women can have male friends much easier than men having female friends. Generally speaking, men only need an opportunity to have sex, women need a reason. The proof is right in front of us. Women totally control sexual encounters. They have the power to get sex whenever they choose. From a man's point of view, it's quite remarkable that they don't misuse that power. I would bet my last Canadian dollar (they're quite strong at the moment)that if men had that power they'd have no use for belts as their pants would never be up beyond the ankles.
Men are the hunters and women are the prey. Some may argue but that is how we've evolved. Of course we control our feelings and our actions but the thoughts do pop into our heads. It's not good or bad, just the way it is. It's also the demise of many relationships. People tend to imagine they can control natures urges. It's quite possible when our principle relationships are nurtured but when we are lonely at home, our basic instincts flare up causing us to seek fulfillment elsewhere. It's not rocket science or hard to understand.
In closing, let me paint a picture. Let's imagine there are two couples who are friends. Somehow the couples break up through death or divorce. They no longer get together as two couples but they still cross paths socially. They're comfortable with each other, after all they've been friends for years. The guy has two tickets to a concert, so he invites the other woman. They go, have fun and stop by the woman's house for a beer after the concert. If that woman invites him in, I can almost say with 100 % certainty, sex would at least cross his mind. Although he might respect the old boundary, he would probably have no problem doing it either if given the chance. Guys hope for sex, women decide when and with whom they will have sex.
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A
female
reader, deejuliet +, writes (12 June 2007):
 I have to agree with Irish. I think she stated everything very well.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (12 June 2007): Well, firstly, pressure and a lack of trust are not good foundations for a loving relationship. If you can’t trust her now, moving in together or getting married, in the future, won’t change that. Secondly, when there are secrets and sneaking around going on in a relationship it usually it's not good. Some people are perfectly fine with beloveds having cross gender friendships, but the respect and consideration should be in place, on her part. Any woman who has absolutely nothing to hide and is claiming it's just a friendship, will introduce you to all her friends, including him. He will introduce her to his wife and family. Has this happened? Meeting this friend of hers will let you see them together and note how they behave around each other. Before you draw any conclusions, I think you need to request that your gf to set up a introductory meeting with this friend. Because her behaviors as they sit now, are like she is hiding this guy from you, so what else is she hiding you do not know about? This is not insecurity on your part nor is it paranoia--it could be a real problem.
It's time for you to sit down with her and explain what you are truely seeing here. If opportunity presents itself..I quite honestly feel this guy may go for it. When a female wants to be 'friends' with a male, she should be forewarned that it 'will likely never be innocent' on the part of the majority of men. A female is fooling herself is she thinks likewise. Men really do think differently. By nature, heterosexual men do sexualize females far more than females will do to males. And the reality is that sexual attraction could suddenly enter the realm of a cross-gender friendship, very easily. Much, much too easily. It's uninvited is always lurking in the background. Sexual tension can and likely always be a proponent of a friendship between a male and female. This is always the biggest complaint from women about their friendships with men. A simple, platonic hug can surprisingly take on a more deeper, sexual meaning, but more on the part of the male. You have to discern what she's doing. She is hiding all the evidence because she knows how threatened you are by this friendship. Yet she sees no problem hanging out with a "friend" who is wounding your trust in her. I would think your feelings would concern her and she would want to have you mneet him, just to allay your concerns.
A good partner in life, would never do anything to bring suspicion and pain to the other's sense of safety and security within the relationship. So when women ask me-is it right to spend time with a male friend? I tell them..."That depends on how you are dealing with this so-called friendship. Are you including your loved one in this friendship. Are you and your bf both seeing this guy as a couple? Realize your bf is a guy and he knows how other guys think! Believe that. I think a female in a love relationship would not want to jeopardize the solidarity she feels with her partner. If she is friends with a male, she'd be very, very smart to socialize with her male friends, involving her bf, as much as possible. Dear, your gf is enjoying this married man's attentions and the flattery. She needs to stop doing this as her ego will destroy what you both have. From what you stated, all the signs are pointing to an 'emotional' affair. She's either being very gullible, or very dishonest and not taking responsibility for her actions, in keeping her end of this relationship, real, honest and secure. This is not an insecurity issue on your part...it is a huge disrespect issue on her part, for you and the meaningfulness of what you two share. You are pushing her hot buttons over this issue, so she is being defensive whenever you call her out on this. It's a reaction to stress. But, she needs to understand the complex dynamic of what she doing to cause you to push her hot buttons, in the first place. She should not be lying, nor hiding this friendship. This will hinder the trust and eventually destroy the relationship.
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A
female
reader, penta +, writes (11 June 2007):
 She's hiding it from you because you told her you didn't like it. You said yourself that the text messages were innocent. You're driving yourself into a tizzy over nothing.
I have male friends. My husband has nothing to fear, and he knows it. He has female friends. Same deal. You either trust your partner or you don't. She's done nothing to lose your trust.
You've gone through her phone messages, though, which is pretty bad. Like you, she ALSO has nothing to hide; she's only trying to spare your feelings by not talking to him in front of you. She shouldn't have to cut off her friend just because you're insecure. Get over it. Or deal with it when she tires of your jealousy and cuts you out of her life.
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A
male
reader, Brad_from_NJ +, writes (11 June 2007):
Brad_from_NJ is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHey flower girl, thanks for the reply. I understand your point about trust after snooping in her phone. I feel bad about that, and I found what my gut was telling me.
I know, two wrongs don't make a right. She's decided to keep this stuff from me. If they are truly "just friends" why does all the secrecy? Especially when I have asked her not to do that.
Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?
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A
female
reader, flower girl  +, writes (11 June 2007):
 You clearly do not trust your girlfriend anymore due to the fact you went through her phone, so tell me honestly do you really think there is any point in this relationship carrying on once the trust has gone what is left, failing that due to the commitment you are prepared to make moving near to her you could try talking to her about the situation and see if one time when you visit you could all go out together you might be able to get more of an idea what goes on from her responce to that suggestion, and if you do go out see what they are like around each other.
Take care.x.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2007): She was quite upfront with you in the beginning, and your reaction has caused her to clam up because instinctively she knows no matter what she says you'll be at her like a dog with bone. If she had hid it from the get go it would be different.
It is possible she's emotionally attached to him, but women are attached to female friends too. It would seem to me your jealousy is getting the best of you.
I have several male friends that have outlasted both a husband and numerous boyfriends, and some I speak to often, and some not so often. I have not slept with any of them, and they are like family to me.
So, it is up to you: You said men don't need female friends. I disagree, and that is where your initial problem is. You may trust her, but you don't trust his motives, and one day you may make her choose and you're afraid you'll lose. Well, most of us, when forced to choose between friends and lovers will, even if not now, eventually, will choose our friends.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2007): Hi love,
What a pickle.... At the beginning she was quite happy to chat away about her friend, Then it seems that she felt uncomfortable because it made you uncomfortable love. And she doesnt by the sounds of thing want that to happen..
Which is understandable if she loves you it probably makes her abit jummpy, She wants to make you happy. Have you been bringing this up more often than you would if it were a girl mate? I have lots of male mates and alot of them actually prefere female mates they have also got their guy friends but they chat to me about stuff they prob wouldnt talk about with their male friends... My son also has alot of female mates absolutly nothing in it he is in a long term relationship as am I.
Relax love if she was doing something then why bother with a relationship such a long way away. Your moving down to be near her soon so you can to be together, do you not think that she wouldnt be so happy with this if she was interested in this friend in any other way.
When you chat on the phone does this come up? if it does then that maybe why the phonecalls are cut shorter now to save an argument starting. I feel she is probably hiding certain stuff so as not to upset you or cause a row..
I do hope i made abit of sense there and i hope this relationship works out lovely for the both of you..
Good luck and take care xxx
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A
male
reader, Brad_from_NJ +, writes (11 June 2007):
Brad_from_NJ is verified as being by the original poster of the questionJust to clarify...she started this new job last October and I started hearing about this guy just in late February, so it's not like they've been friends for a long time.
Again, sorry for the length of my story.
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A
male
reader, Jubbaloo +, writes (11 June 2007):
 It's hard when people hide things from you, I had the same thing, thats why i first looked at this site. There's no definite answer, which i know is not what you want to hear. I also appreciate that you might not want to talk to an 18 year old. But in the end, after talking to her and realising how much i needed her, she talked about him slightly more, and i stopped asking. I think the answer to the question you asked: Should I just accept this guy will be a primary friend in her life? i think is if you can, everyone has a pretty good idea what they can tolerate.
If you think you can then try it. If one of you or both of you are relocating then that might solve the problem. But a word of advice on the phone thing, try to stop now. I did that for about a month, and find it hard not to now, and it bugs me.
I hope you find this helpful.
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